Hi,
Bill from user research here.
We just finished some research in Thailand and Indonesia where we conducted ~40
interviews with desktop browser users (half of whom were Firefox users). We'll
be presenting findings from the research next month, but I'd like to share a
few observations from
On 10/15/2013 12:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
With the landing of bug 853301, we are now shipping ICU in desktop
Firefox builds. This costs us about 10% in both download and on-disk
footprint
I'm going to try and summarize the discussion and indicate next steps.
==
First, I want to be
On 10/22/13 11:34 AM, wsel...@mozilla.com wrote:
The key point is that download size is very important in these markets. Also,
it is important for us to think about two related topics:
1) How to get people in these markets to current versions of Firefox?
2) If downloading is not currently the
On 10/22/13, 2:09 PM, wsel...@gmail.com wrote:
One suggestion that our team came up with is to provide Firefox-branded USB
keys and distribute them through reps, chains like KFC and 7-11, and local
computer vendors where people connect online. These would have installers for
the latest
On 2013-10-22 4:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I don't think that there is enough data yet to make a decision.
Hopefully funnelcake results which help make a more informed choice. If
it turns out that that Firefox wants this decision reconsidered, what
groups and goals would be affected by
On 10/22/2013 6:19 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2013-10-22 4:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I don't think that there is enough data yet to make a decision.
Hopefully funnelcake results which help make a more informed choice. If
it turns out that that Firefox wants this decision reconsidered,
On 2013-10-22 6:34 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
On 10/22/2013 6:19 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2013-10-22 4:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I don't think that there is enough data yet to make a decision.
Hopefully funnelcake results which help make a more informed choice. If
it turns out that
On 10/17/13 11:43 AM, Matt Brubeck wrote:
For this reason, I'm a bit confused at the level of scrutiny of ICU's
size when we've added many times that amount to our download size over
the past couple of years without any pushback or even discussion.
Do we have Funnelcake data comparing download
On 10/18/13 4:06 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
On 10/17/13 11:43 AM, Matt Brubeck wrote:
For this reason, I'm a bit confused at the level of scrutiny of ICU's
size when we've added many times that amount to our download size over
the past couple of years without any pushback or even discussion.
On 10/17/13 12:02 PM, Gervase Markham wrote:
On 16/10/13 16:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
With Firefox OS, we don't have the download-size issue, do we? So we can
ship all the data.
Gerv
We have issues with disk space, currently. We're
On 10/16/13 5:39 PM, Jeff Walden wrote:
On 10/16/2013 02:10 PM, Axel Hecht wrote:
I wonder how far we can get by doing something along the lines we use for
webfonts, starting to do the best we can with the data we already have, and
improve once the perfect data is local.
Having the Intl.Foo
On 16.10.2013 17:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
[...]
But, yes, I think we'll need a hosted service to provide that data on
demand in the end.
This sounds like a non-starter for mobile devices, doesn't it?
On 10/17/13 2:41 PM, Dao wrote:
On 16.10.2013 17:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
[...]
But, yes, I think we'll need a hosted service to provide that data on
demand in the end.
This sounds like a non-starter for mobile devices, doesn't it?
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Axel Hecht l...@mozilla.com wrote:
We have issues with disk space, currently. We're already in the situation
where all our keyboard data doesn't fit on quite a few of the devices out
there.
Where can one read more about this? This ICU data is not *that* huge.
On 10/17/13 3:41 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Axel Hecht l...@mozilla.com wrote:
We have issues with disk space, currently. We're already in the situation
where all our keyboard data doesn't fit on quite a few of the devices out
there.
Where can one read more about
On 10/17/2013 10:24 AM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
We used to have codesighs measurements (and perhaps still do) but
historically many people just ignored them.
We stopped collecting codesighs measurements in November 2012 (bug
803736). As Ehsan says, it was widely ignored. It regressed
Jumping in late, so top posting.
I think being able to load language data dynamically is a good idea. I
don't see a reason why this should be tied in to a language pack,
though. The other way around is a different question. i.e.
language data doesn't include UI localization
UI localization
On 15/10/13 17:06, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
With the landing of bug 853301, we are now shipping ICU in desktop
Firefox builds. This costs us about 10% in both download and on-disk
footprint: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853301#c2.
After a discussion with Waldo, I'm going to
On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Gervase Markham g...@mozilla.org wrote:
I wonder if we could do this as a webservice? That is, when the browser
is asked to render a timezone string or a currency string in a
particular language, it goes and grabs all the data for that language.
We could
On 16/10/13 14:47, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
The API is synchronous so that seems like a bad idea.
As in, it'll cause the tab to freeze (one time only, when a new language
is called for) while the file is downloading? OK, that's bad, but so is
having Firefox be a lot bigger...
Perhaps, as Brian
On 10/16/13 3:50 PM, Gervase Markham wrote:
On 16/10/13 14:47, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
The API is synchronous so that seems like a bad idea.
As in, it'll cause the tab to freeze (one time only, when a new language
is called for) while the file is downloading? OK, that's bad, but so is
having
On 10/16/2013 12:45 AM, Karl Tomlinson wrote:
When sync I/O is performed to read in-binary-object data, how is
that better?
Just readahead?
Readahead, it being part of the binary/libxul/whatever so already one coherent
file to load, etc. I'm not aware that you can reasonably predict
On 10/16/13 6:39 AM, Gervase Markham wrote:
You have given on-disk footprint values, but surely download size values
are the important ones for the issue you are raising? After all, some of
this data may be very compressible, and some may not.
Can we repackage the ICU data so we can compress
On 10/16/2013 9:39 AM, Gervase Markham wrote:
On 15/10/13 17:06, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
You have given on-disk footprint values, but surely download size values
are the important ones for the issue you are raising? After all, some of
this data may be very compressible, and some may not.
Possible crazy idea: do we actively track and send tree management
notices when package or binary size changes? This seems like something
we'd want to cover under the perf regressions get backed out or need
approval policy. It may also help identify build system regressions and
compiler
On 16 October 2013 23:10:39, Gregory Szorc wrote:
Possible crazy idea: do we actively track and send tree management
notices when package or binary size changes?
Not at present as far as I know, though Tim Taubert created something
temporary last year (no longer accessible, but perhaps worth
On 15/10/2013 17:06, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I'm going to post some details here about
how much this costs in terms of disk footprint, to discuss whether there
are things we can remove from this footprint, and whether the footprint
is actually worth the cost.
As a heads up, I'm currently
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Benjamin Smedberg
benja...@smedbergs.us wrote:
Do we need this data for any language other than the language Firefox ships
in? Can we just include the relevant language data in each localized build
of Firefox, and allow users to get other language data via
On 10/15/2013 06:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
Do we need this data for any language other than the language Firefox ships
in? Can we just include the relevant language data in each localized build of
Firefox, and allow users to get other language data via downloadable language
packs,
On 10/15/2013 1:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Benjamin Smedberg
benja...@smedbergs.us wrote:
Do we need this data for any language other than the language Firefox ships
in? Can we just include the relevant language data in each localized build
of Firefox, and allow
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Benjamin Smedberg
benja...@smedbergs.us wrote:
On 10/15/2013 1:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
My understanding is that web content should not be able to tell which
locale the browser is configured to use, for privacy (fingerprinting)
reasons.
I haven't heard this
On 10/15/2013 1:50 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
As far as JavaScript API features go, I don't think we should vary our
offering by locale. E.g. for Firefox OS we want changing locale to
just work and not require a new version of Firefox OS. The same goes
for a computer in a hotel or hostel or
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote:
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Benjamin Smedberg
benja...@smedbergs.us wrote:
On 10/15/2013 1:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
My understanding is that web content should not be able to tell which
locale the browser is
On 10/15/13 12:28 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
I have no idea how to install a langpack. Presumably it is something
that is done through AMO. I am skeptical that this is easy enough to
make it acceptable to push this task off to the user. we should at
least automate it for them. If this data is too
Jeff Walden writes:
On 10/15/2013 06:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
That means sync I/O on the main thread, and not well-optimized because it
won't be part of the binary. Just to note.
When sync I/O is performed to read in-binary-object data, how is
that better?
Just readahead?
Wouldn't
On 10/15/13 2:41 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
On 10/15/13 12:28 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
I have no idea how to install a langpack. Presumably it is something
that is done through AMO. I am skeptical that this is easy enough to
make it acceptable to push this task off to the user. we should at
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