Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name

2018-02-13 Thread Randy Bias 
Hi,


Thanks for the input.  Just a reminder that I gave y’all a heads up 
on this in early December and we discussed it in detail at the governance 
summit at Kubecon as well.  There should be zero surprised to anyone that we 
can’t proceed with OpenContrail.

As a reminder here is the detailed email where I explained how we 
got here:


http://lists.opencontrail.org/pipermail/dev_lists.opencontrail.org/2017-December/003713.html

I don’t think there is really anything to add.

Meanwhile, we’ve been open to any suggestions on name, but the 
process is extremely challenging as we need all of the following:


1.Must be trademark-able

2.Must be able to get a domain name for it

3.Ideally it’s “cool”

4.Get the name change done before or quickly after joining LFN

On #1, it’s highly challenging.  Pick any literal term related to 
“fabrics”, “networks”, “orchestration”, “cloud” and so on and large swaths of 
potential names have been trademarked.  If not in the USA then in another 
country.

The reality of the situation is that without more time and 
resources we are going to have difficulty finding the perfect new name.  I wish 
it was not so.  I wish I had been able to convince Juniper management to give 
over Contrail/OpenContrail regardless of the ramifications to our business.

It is what it is.  Serious suggestions on new names will be taken 
even at this late date but time is very short so make sure you had your legal 
team do quick search on it (takes 24-ish hours) and you have identified a 
domain we can use.



Thank you,



--Randy

Vice President, Technology & Strategy, Cloud Software
Juniper Networks
+1 (415) 787-2253 [Google Voice]
ASSISTANT: Stephanie Concepcion, 
sconcepc...@juniper.net<mailto:sconcepc...@juniper.net>
TWITTER: @randybias
LINKEDIN: linkedin.com/in/randybias


From: Dev  on behalf of Robert Raszuk 

Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 2:32 AM
To: "ext-edgar.mag...@workday.com" 
Cc: "dev@lists.opencontrail.org" , 
"annou...@lists.opencontrail.org" 
Subject: Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose 
OpenContrail's New Name

Hi Edgar,


> In my opinion, these three names sound awful.

Completely agree ! Terrible. Why not something very easy like CFabric ? (Oh no 
it starts with bad letter "c" ;-).

>  Maybe we could negotiate with Juniper ...


Exactly proposed the same few months back (when this all started to surface). 
Got back bunch of unicasts from J that this is impossible to negotiate - the 
internal decision has been made.


I actually still do not understand the real reason: LF/Community project name 
is: OpenContrail. Juniper commercial name is: Contrail. Completely different 
words/names. What's wrong with keeping it as it was named day one ?


Otherwise looking at the three alternatives provided it does look like someone 
really hard is trying to kill the community version :(


Cheers,
R.


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Edgar Magana 
mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:
Community,

I know I have been disengaged lately from the project and I probably do not 
deserve a voice here. However, I would like to ask you for your forgiveness if 
I do say something that is out of place, wrong or even offensive, it is not my 
intention.

In my opinion, these three names sound awful. I think we should do better 
marketing about it. It feels that we are going to lose a lot of good branding 
with OpenContrail. Maybe going under Linux Foundation is not the best option 
for this open-source project. I know a lot of people have invested a lot of 
effort on making this project part of the LF but again, just feel that we are 
going to lose a lot. Maybe we could negotiate with Juniper, they were the ones 
deciding open-source it, maybe they are willing to change the name of the 
enterprise version.

These are just my thoughts.

Thanks for reading and understanding my opinion.

Edgar

From: Announce 
mailto:announce-boun...@lists.opencontrail.org>>
 on behalf of Gregory Elkinbard 
mailto:gelkinb...@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, February 12, 2018 at 4:52 PM
To: "dev@lists.opencontrail.org<mailto:dev@lists.opencontrail.org>" 
mailto:dev@lists.opencontrail.org>>, 
"annou...@lists.opencontrail.org<mailto:annou...@lists.opencontrail.org>" 
mailto:annou...@lists.opencontrail.org>>
Subject: [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name

As many of you already know, we are required to change the name of the project 
as part of moving to the LF-N.

We've started the ball rolling by coming up with a slate of names that we've 
preliminarily vetted with trademark counsel. That process has yielded three 
names that we are reasonably confident can pass the more stringent trademark 
test that is presently underwa

Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name

2018-02-13 Thread Gregory Elkinbard 
We have tried to push the Contrail issue all the way up to C-level at Juniper.
Contrail represents a whole group of products of which OpenContrail/Contrail 
Networking is just a part.
They spent too much money and time marketing the name, they will not abandon it.
This like going to Cisco and asking them to abandon Catalyst or Nexus as a name.
We fought a pretty hard fight internally but we lost that fight. Juniper will 
not release the Contrail as its cloud suite product name.

CNCF is part of LF, so it is out. Apache is likely to have the same lawyers and 
the same trademark concerns. So to join an establish foundation we have to 
change names.
It is painful. But I have rebranded products before. It is just a question of 
outreach to users, press and potential users and potential community members. 
We will use upcoming OSN, Kubecon and OpenStack to reach out to folks and 
propagate the new name.

We can mourn the old name at OSN. I’ll buy a round of beers for it. Joining the 
foundation is needed to grow the community long term, so we do need to move on.

Greg



From: Dev  on behalf of "CARVER, PAUL" 

Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 6:52 AM
To: Robert Raszuk , "ext-edgar.mag...@workday.com" 

Cc: "dev@lists.opencontrail.org" , 
"annou...@lists.opencontrail.org" 
Subject: Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose 
OpenContrail's New Name

The Linux Foundation refuses to accept the OpenContrail trademark if they can’t 
also have the Contrail trademark. So, although you feel that they are not 
similar, we don’t have any leverage to override LF’s decision. Unless you 
really think we should abandon the move to LF (please don’t) and go back to 
square one of deciding on a new governance structure, we have to accept the 
LF’s stance.

Were there other names on the naming candidate list 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSx3PLQbyojqJZHStl6fetDU3lX5774mItajbFWOccc/edit<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1tSx3PLQbyojqJZHStl6fetDU3lX5774mItajbFWOccc_edit&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=VQrMBvKeploIeBocya36pOwODBVDvmbjFqFgowqJuhs&m=Yc7WcGVzDqjk3DBmzlpigfdVM94wiRewqytTpMILRbM&s=h6YKESBVoCDWWjWdUGgUSkvlyD1d0cVL-v2XLmFQS5U&e=>
 that you like better that didn’t make it onto this poll?

Personal opinions are always going to have some differences, for example I 
think CFabric is terrible as well. Ian Rae had mentioned Cloudcircuit, which I 
kind of like but I have to admit it’s fairly blah. Nothing on the naming list 
really jumps out at me as a really terrific name, but I’m not particularly 
invested in what we call it.

If you’ve got a suggestion that passes trademark review (because that’s 100% 
mandatory and beyond our control) then please do campaign for it. But it isn’t 
doing us any good to keep coming back to OpenContrail because the lawyers have 
spoken, not just Juniper’s lawyers but the Linux Foundation’s lawyers. And 
unless you’ve consulted your own trademark lawyers and gotten a different 
opinion (that your lawyers are willing to argue with other lawyers over) 
there’s just nothing to be gained by lamenting their opinion.

--
Paul Carver
VoIP: 732-545-7377
Cell: 908-803-1656
E: pcar...@att.com<mailto:pcar...@att.com>
It is difficult to make predictions. Especially about the future.


From: Dev [mailto:dev-boun...@lists.opencontrail.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 05:33
To: Edgar Magana 
Cc: dev@lists.opencontrail.org; annou...@lists.opencontrail.org
Subject: Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose 
OpenContrail's New Name

Hi Edgar,

> In my opinion, these three names sound awful.

Completely agree ! Terrible. Why not something very easy like CFabric ? (Oh no 
it starts with bad letter "c" ;-).

>  Maybe we could negotiate with Juniper ...

Exactly proposed the same few months back (when this all started to surface). 
Got back bunch of unicasts from J that this is impossible to negotiate - the 
internal decision has been made.

I actually still do not understand the real reason: LF/Community project name 
is: OpenContrail. Juniper commercial name is: Contrail. Completely different 
words/names. What's wrong with keeping it as it was named day one ?

Otherwise looking at the three alternatives provided it does look like someone 
really hard is trying to kill the community version :(

Cheers,
R.


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Edgar Magana 
mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:
Community,

I know I have been disengaged lately from the project and I probably do not 
deserve a voice here. However, I would like to ask you for your forgiveness if 
I do say something that is out of place, wrong or even offensive, it is not my 
intention.

In my opinion, these three names sound awful. I think we should do better 
marketing about it. It feels t

Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name

2018-02-13 Thread CARVER, PAUL 
The Linux Foundation refuses to accept the OpenContrail trademark if they can’t 
also have the Contrail trademark. So, although you feel that they are not 
similar, we don’t have any leverage to override LF’s decision. Unless you 
really think we should abandon the move to LF (please don’t) and go back to 
square one of deciding on a new governance structure, we have to accept the 
LF’s stance.

Were there other names on the naming candidate list 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSx3PLQbyojqJZHStl6fetDU3lX5774mItajbFWOccc/edit
 that you like better that didn’t make it onto this poll?

Personal opinions are always going to have some differences, for example I 
think CFabric is terrible as well. Ian Rae had mentioned Cloudcircuit, which I 
kind of like but I have to admit it’s fairly blah. Nothing on the naming list 
really jumps out at me as a really terrific name, but I’m not particularly 
invested in what we call it.

If you’ve got a suggestion that passes trademark review (because that’s 100% 
mandatory and beyond our control) then please do campaign for it. But it isn’t 
doing us any good to keep coming back to OpenContrail because the lawyers have 
spoken, not just Juniper’s lawyers but the Linux Foundation’s lawyers. And 
unless you’ve consulted your own trademark lawyers and gotten a different 
opinion (that your lawyers are willing to argue with other lawyers over) 
there’s just nothing to be gained by lamenting their opinion.

--
Paul Carver
VoIP: 732-545-7377
Cell: 908-803-1656
E: pcar...@att.com<mailto:pcar...@att.com>
It is difficult to make predictions. Especially about the future.


From: Dev [mailto:dev-boun...@lists.opencontrail.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 05:33
To: Edgar Magana 
Cc: dev@lists.opencontrail.org; annou...@lists.opencontrail.org
Subject: Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose 
OpenContrail's New Name

Hi Edgar,

> In my opinion, these three names sound awful.

Completely agree ! Terrible. Why not something very easy like CFabric ? (Oh no 
it starts with bad letter "c" ;-).

>  Maybe we could negotiate with Juniper ...

Exactly proposed the same few months back (when this all started to surface). 
Got back bunch of unicasts from J that this is impossible to negotiate - the 
internal decision has been made.

I actually still do not understand the real reason: LF/Community project name 
is: OpenContrail. Juniper commercial name is: Contrail. Completely different 
words/names. What's wrong with keeping it as it was named day one ?

Otherwise looking at the three alternatives provided it does look like someone 
really hard is trying to kill the community version :(

Cheers,
R.


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Edgar Magana 
mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com>> wrote:
Community,

I know I have been disengaged lately from the project and I probably do not 
deserve a voice here. However, I would like to ask you for your forgiveness if 
I do say something that is out of place, wrong or even offensive, it is not my 
intention.

In my opinion, these three names sound awful. I think we should do better 
marketing about it. It feels that we are going to lose a lot of good branding 
with OpenContrail. Maybe going under Linux Foundation is not the best option 
for this open-source project. I know a lot of people have invested a lot of 
effort on making this project part of the LF but again, just feel that we are 
going to lose a lot. Maybe we could negotiate with Juniper, they were the ones 
deciding open-source it, maybe they are willing to change the name of the 
enterprise version.

These are just my thoughts.

Thanks for reading and understanding my opinion.

Edgar

From: Announce 
mailto:announce-boun...@lists.opencontrail.org>>
 on behalf of Gregory Elkinbard 
mailto:gelkinb...@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, February 12, 2018 at 4:52 PM
To: "dev@lists.opencontrail.org<mailto:dev@lists.opencontrail.org>" 
mailto:dev@lists.opencontrail.org>>, 
"annou...@lists.opencontrail.org<mailto:annou...@lists.opencontrail.org>" 
mailto:annou...@lists.opencontrail.org>>
Subject: [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name

As many of you already know, we are required to change the name of the project 
as part of moving to the LF-N.

We've started the ball rolling by coming up with a slate of names that we've 
preliminarily vetted with trademark counsel. That process has yielded three 
names that we are reasonably confident can pass the more stringent trademark 
test that is presently underway. Now, we need your help.

We've set up a Google Form poll to gather community input on which of these 
three names might be most preferred by a plurality of members. Please follow 
the link below 
https://goo.gl/forms/dj7xIlsXowVez4wI2<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goo.gl_forms_dj7

Re: [opencontrail-dev] [Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name

2018-02-13 Thread Robert Raszuk 
Hi Edgar,

> In my opinion, these three names sound awful.

Completely agree ! Terrible. Why not something very easy like CFabric ? (Oh
no it starts with bad letter "c" ;-).

>  Maybe we could negotiate with Juniper ...

Exactly proposed the same few months back (when this all started to
surface). Got back bunch of unicasts from J that this is impossible to
negotiate - the internal decision has been made.

I actually still do not understand the real reason: LF/Community project
name is: OpenContrail. Juniper commercial name is: Contrail. Completely
different words/names. What's wrong with keeping it as it was named day one
?

Otherwise looking at the three alternatives provided it does look like
someone really hard is trying to kill the community version :(

Cheers,
R.


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Edgar Magana 
wrote:

> Community,
>
>
>
> I know I have been disengaged lately from the project and I probably do
> not deserve a voice here. However, I would like to ask you for your
> forgiveness if I do say something that is out of place, wrong or even
> offensive, it is not my intention.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, these three names sound awful. I think we should do better
> marketing about it. It feels that we are going to lose a lot of good
> branding with OpenContrail. Maybe going under Linux Foundation is not the
> best option for this open-source project. I know a lot of people have
> invested a lot of effort on making this project part of the LF but again,
> just feel that we are going to lose a lot. Maybe we could negotiate with
> Juniper, they were the ones deciding open-source it, maybe they are willing
> to change the name of the enterprise version.
>
>
>
> These are just my thoughts.
>
>
>
> Thanks for reading and understanding my opinion.
>
>
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> *From: *Announce  on behalf of
> Gregory Elkinbard 
> *Date: *Monday, February 12, 2018 at 4:52 PM
> *To: *"dev@lists.opencontrail.org" , "
> annou...@lists.opencontrail.org" 
> *Subject: *[Announce] Opinion Please: Help Choose OpenContrail's New Name
>
>
>
> As many of you already know, we are required to change the name of the
> project as part of moving to the LF-N.
>
>
>
> We've started the ball rolling by coming up with a slate of names that
> we've preliminarily vetted with trademark counsel. That process has yielded
> three names that we are reasonably confident can pass the more stringent
> trademark test that is presently underway. Now, we need your help.
>
>
>
> We've set up a Google Form poll to gather community input on which of
> these three names might be most preferred by a plurality of members. Please
> follow the link below https://goo.gl/forms/dj7xIlsXowVez4wI2
> 
>  and complete the poll per the instructions there. Voting is open through
> 08:00 UTC on Thursday, February 15. We'll announce the winner next week,
> pending the aforementioned trademark counsel review.
>
>
>
> Thanks for participating!
>
>
>
>   Greg
>
> ___
> Announce mailing list
> annou...@lists.opencontrail.org
> http://lists.opencontrail.org/mailman/listinfo/announce_
> lists.opencontrail.org
>
>
___
Dev mailing list
Dev@lists.opencontrail.org
http://lists.opencontrail.org/mailman/listinfo/dev_lists.opencontrail.org