Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Marcus]

Am 15.12.2017 um 07:19 schrieb Peter kovacs:

I am sorry for the confusion I am causing.
Sometimes I get stuck in topics, and overrated them due to an inner loop of 
focus.
In this case it were to not give attackspace to possible trolls. That's why I 
called it Libre Office troll feedback loop. Libre does only show up because 
they use Libre for stumping on us.
There is no one involved except me and my other 1000 versions of myself. ;)


do you think a few of them could be helpful for the project. ;-)


I hate when this happens because I tend to do stupid things. And I need time to 
clear such loops up.

In the end it is important that someone does  the chair job and Carl or myself 
will need to make time for it.
We can spend the time well for other things.
I don't have to do this but will if selected.
I think same goes for Carl.
That's all I think is important to know.

I am really sorry.


That's OK. From what I can say about the PMC chair duties it is less 
work to do than thought - at least this is my impression from the last 
months. As more often you do things as more routine you get in doing them.


Marcus




Am 14. Dezember 2017 20:38:36 MEZ schrieb Marcus :

Am 14.12.2017 um 09:21 schrieb Peter kovacs:

It is not about what we agree upon.
This is a public vote. And whoever gives a vote is deciding now.

Maybe this is an effect from trolling against us, but I do not think

there is space for public weakness or naivete. (And I try not do do
both...)

I thought about putting my preferences into my description and

decided against it because it would weaken the project.

I was really thankful on Andrea's words. Which are nicely written,

but I thought again it would be a weakness to show the thankfullnes so
I stoped to write the comment and my vote.


Sorry if I over complicate things.
I really do not mind whoever gets the job. We have all much to do and

only little time.


So I am now again late for work :(
I really hate the "Libre Office troll feedback loop"!


now I'm confused. Why is Libre Office influencing this vote? I don't
see
any connections.

Marcus




Am 14. Dezember 2017 03:11:32 MEZ schrieb Carl Marcum

:

On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:

I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate

anymore mail."

But maybe my English is not good enough.

A one candidate vote is something completely different as between

2+

candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really

the

right step.


Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has

resigned, which I doubt.


Not so happy
peter





Hi Peter,

I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.

If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.

I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload

is


very high right now.

I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.

If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.



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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Dave Fisher]

Thanks for this Peter. Let’s just focus on what we can control!

Best Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 15, 2017, at 1:19 AM, Peter kovacs  wrote:
> 
> I am sorry for the confusion I am causing.
> Sometimes I get stuck in topics, and overrated them due to an inner loop of 
> focus.
> In this case it were to not give attackspace to possible trolls. That's why I 
> called it Libre Office troll feedback loop. Libre does only show up because 
> they use Libre for stumping on us.
> There is no one involved except me and my other 1000 versions of myself. ;)
> I hate when this happens because I tend to do stupid things. And I need time 
> to clear such loops up.
> 
> In the end it is important that someone does  the chair job and Carl or 
> myself will need to make time for it.
> We can spend the time well for other things.
> I don't have to do this but will if selected.
> I think same goes for Carl.
> That's all I think is important to know.
> 
> I am really sorry.
> 
> Am 14. Dezember 2017 20:38:36 MEZ schrieb Marcus :
>>> Am 14.12.2017 um 09:21 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>> It is not about what we agree upon.
>>> This is a public vote. And whoever gives a vote is deciding now.
>>> 
>>> Maybe this is an effect from trolling against us, but I do not think
>> there is space for public weakness or naivete. (And I try not do do
>> both...)
>>> I thought about putting my preferences into my description and
>> decided against it because it would weaken the project.
>>> I was really thankful on Andrea's words. Which are nicely written,
>> but I thought again it would be a weakness to show the thankfullnes so
>> I stoped to write the comment and my vote.
>>> 
>>> Sorry if I over complicate things.
>>> I really do not mind whoever gets the job. We have all much to do and
>> only little time.
>>> 
>>> So I am now again late for work :(
>>> I really hate the "Libre Office troll feedback loop"!
>> 
>> now I'm confused. Why is Libre Office influencing this vote? I don't
>> see 
>> any connections.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 14. Dezember 2017 03:11:32 MEZ schrieb Carl Marcum
>> :
 On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:
> I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate
 anymore mail."
> But maybe my English is not good enough.
> 
> A one candidate vote is something completely different as between
>> 2+
 candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really
>> the
 right step.
> 
> Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has
 resigned, which I doubt.
> 
> Not so happy
> peter
> 
> 
 
 
 Hi Peter,
 
 I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.
 
 If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.
 
 I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload
>> is
 
 very high right now.
 
 I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.
 
 If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Peter kovacs]

I am sorry for the confusion I am causing.
Sometimes I get stuck in topics, and overrated them due to an inner loop of 
focus.
In this case it were to not give attackspace to possible trolls. That's why I 
called it Libre Office troll feedback loop. Libre does only show up because 
they use Libre for stumping on us.
There is no one involved except me and my other 1000 versions of myself. ;)
I hate when this happens because I tend to do stupid things. And I need time to 
clear such loops up.

In the end it is important that someone does  the chair job and Carl or myself 
will need to make time for it.
We can spend the time well for other things.
I don't have to do this but will if selected.
I think same goes for Carl.
That's all I think is important to know.

I am really sorry.

Am 14. Dezember 2017 20:38:36 MEZ schrieb Marcus :
>Am 14.12.2017 um 09:21 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>> It is not about what we agree upon.
>> This is a public vote. And whoever gives a vote is deciding now.
>> 
>> Maybe this is an effect from trolling against us, but I do not think
>there is space for public weakness or naivete. (And I try not do do
>both...)
>> I thought about putting my preferences into my description and
>decided against it because it would weaken the project.
>> I was really thankful on Andrea's words. Which are nicely written,
>but I thought again it would be a weakness to show the thankfullnes so
>I stoped to write the comment and my vote.
>> 
>> Sorry if I over complicate things.
>> I really do not mind whoever gets the job. We have all much to do and
>only little time.
>> 
>> So I am now again late for work :(
>> I really hate the "Libre Office troll feedback loop"!
>
>now I'm confused. Why is Libre Office influencing this vote? I don't
>see 
>any connections.
>
>Marcus
>
>
>
>> Am 14. Dezember 2017 03:11:32 MEZ schrieb Carl Marcum
>:
>>> On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:
 I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate
>>> anymore mail."
 But maybe my English is not good enough.

 A one candidate vote is something completely different as between
>2+
>>> candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really
>the
>>> right step.

 Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has
>>> resigned, which I doubt.

 Not so happy
 peter


>>> 
>>>
>>> Hi Peter,
>>>
>>> I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.
>>>
>>> If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.
>>>
>>> I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload
>is
>>>
>>> very high right now.
>>>
>>> I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.
>>>
>>> If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Marcus]

Am 14.12.2017 um 09:21 schrieb Peter kovacs:

It is not about what we agree upon.
This is a public vote. And whoever gives a vote is deciding now.

Maybe this is an effect from trolling against us, but I do not think there is 
space for public weakness or naivete. (And I try not do do both...)
I thought about putting my preferences into my description and decided against 
it because it would weaken the project.
I was really thankful on Andrea's words. Which are nicely written, but I 
thought again it would be a weakness to show the thankfullnes so I stoped to 
write the comment and my vote.

Sorry if I over complicate things.
I really do not mind whoever gets the job. We have all much to do and only 
little time.

So I am now again late for work :(
I really hate the "Libre Office troll feedback loop"!


now I'm confused. Why is Libre Office influencing this vote? I don't see 
any connections.


Marcus




Am 14. Dezember 2017 03:11:32 MEZ schrieb Carl Marcum :

On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:

I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate

anymore mail."

But maybe my English is not good enough.

A one candidate vote is something completely different as between 2+

candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really the
right step.


Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has

resigned, which I doubt.


Not so happy
peter





Hi Peter,

I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.

If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.

I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload is

very high right now.

I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.

If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.



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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Peter kovacs]

Hi Carl,

It is not about what we agree upon. 
This is a public vote. And whoever gives a vote is deciding now.

Maybe this is an effect from trolling against us, but I do not think there is 
space for public weakness or naivete. (And I try not do do both...)
I thought about putting my preferences into my description and decided against 
it because it would weaken the project.
I was really thankful on Andrea's words. Which are nicely written, but I 
thought again it would be a weakness to show the thankfullnes so I stoped to 
write the comment and my vote.

Sorry if I over complicate things.
I really do not mind whoever gets the job. We have all much to do and only 
little time.

So I am now again late for work :(
I really hate the "Libre Office troll feedback loop"!

All the best
Peter

Am 14. Dezember 2017 03:11:32 MEZ schrieb Carl Marcum :
>On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:
>> I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate
>anymore mail."
>> But maybe my English is not good enough.
>>
>> A one candidate vote is something completely different as between 2+
>candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really the
>right step.
>>
>> Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has
>resigned, which I doubt.
>>
>> Not so happy
>> peter
>>
>>
>
>
>Hi Peter,
>
>I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.
>
>If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.
>
>I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload is
>
>very high right now.
>
>I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.
>
>If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.
>
>Best regards,
>Carl
>
>
>
>-
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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Carl Marcum]

On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:

I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate anymore mail."
But maybe my English is not good enough.

A one candidate vote is something completely different as between 2+ 
candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really the right 
step.

Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has resigned, 
which I doubt.

Not so happy
peter





Hi Peter,

I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.

If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.

I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload is 
very high right now.


I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.

If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.

Best regards,
Carl



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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Peter kovacs]

I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate anymore mail."
But maybe my English is not good enough.

A one candidate vote is something completely different as between 2+ 
candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really the right 
step.

Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has resigned, 
which I doubt.

Not so happy 
peter

Am 14. Dezember 2017 00:14:32 MEZ schrieb Marcus :
>Maybe not known for everyone, I want to point out the following:
>
>Please use the VOTE thread *only* for voting. For discussions it is
>best 
>to open a new [DISCUSS] thread to leave the voting clean from
>discussion 
>stuff.
>
>Now back to the question "Why is the vote still going on?":
>
>I don't see a need to cancel the vote as:
>
>1) it is allowed to change your vote as often you want as long as the 
>vote is still open.
>
>2) we need a "[0] Abstain" way to express, e.g., "I cannot support the 
>volunteer (due to reason X) but also don't want to vote with -1". With
>a 
>lazy consensus instead vote you need to write *in any way* why you
>don't 
>want to have the volunteer as chair.
>
>3) the remaining volunteer is still here and willing to take over. So, 
>what would be the advantage of cancelling this vote and starting a new 
>vote with only Peter as electable person? ;-)
>
>My 2ct
>
>Marcus
>
>
>
>Am 13.12.2017 um 13:38 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
>> I am not sure about the rules, but it is not uncommon that one
>nominee
>> resigns and the remaining one gets votes... ;-)
>> 
>> Regards, Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> Am 13.12.2017 um 13:29 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>> I do not understand. :(
>>> But isn't the vote then invalid?
>>>
>>> Am 13. Dezember 2017 12:09:47 MEZ schrieb Matthias Seidel
>:
 [x] Peter Kovacs (petko)

 Although he is the only candidate now... ;-)

 Regards, Matthias


 Am 08.12.2017 um 20:53 schrieb Marcus:
> End of October I wrote that I would like to resign from the Apache
> OpenOffice PMC Chair position. I'm the chair a bit more than 1
>year
> and until now we have rotated the role every year.
>
> Luckily we have 2 volunteers: Carl and Peter. Therefore please
>vote
 by
> replying to this thread.
>
> [ ] Carl Marcum (cmarcum)
> [ ] Peter Kovacs (petko)
> [ ] Abstain (I cannot/won't choose between them)
>
> The [VOTE] will close in about 7 days (Fri 15 Dec 2017, 21:00
>UTC),
 to
> give all PMC members the opportunity to participate. For a
>converted
> time fitting to your location see here:
>
>

>https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20171215T2100
> After the vote:
> I will submit a resolution to the Board asking to be replaced by
>the
> most voted of the 2 candidates. The plan is to submit the
>resolution
> for the Board meeting on 20th December 2017, so that it can be
> effective right after that.
>
> PS:
> The next board report is due for mid January and of course I will
 help
> the new chair with this but also other chair tasks.
>
> Marcus
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Andrea Pescetti]

Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

On another thread, Pedro Giffuni observed that neither Jan nor I are on the AOO 
PMC.


This was already noted in my vote mail and in previous discussions. The 
winning candidate will be admitted to the PMC (there are minimum 
requirements but I'm sure we can meet them). While I see it likely that 
the other one gets an invitation too, we are currently voting for the 
PMC Chair and for nothing else. Since the process has now been ongoing 
for one month, everybody who had concerns had the time to voice them. We 
are now voting.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Dave Fisher]

I had expressed concernonly to highlight it. I agree others had the chance to 
express concern. PMC could have started a vote. Lazy consensus rules.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 30, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:
 
 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
 On another thread, Pedro Giffuni observed that neither Jan nor I are on the 
 AOO PMC.
 
 This was already noted in my vote mail and in previous discussions. The 
 winning candidate will be admitted to the PMC (there are minimum requirements 
 but I'm sure we can meet them). While I see it likely that the other one gets 
 an invitation too, we are currently voting for the PMC Chair and for nothing 
 else. Since the process has now been ongoing for one month, everybody who had 
 concerns had the time to voice them. We are now voting.
 
 Regards,
  Andrea.
 
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RE: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

+1

-Original Message-
From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 15:33
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair


[ ... ]
Casting Your Vote
The notation used in voting is:

+1 (means I vote positive) You can say why you vote positive but it's not a 
must-have.

0 (means vote abstention and nothing else)

-1 (means I vote negative because of the following reason) Yes, you must 
support your objection and provide an alternative course of action that you are 
willing and able to implement (where appropriate).
/quote
From: http://openoffice.apache.org/docs/governance/voting.html

The point here is that the vote is supposed to be a formality, and the 
conclusion basically known in advance. arrived at through the discussions that 
would have preceded the vote itself. Therefore, if someone votes -1, the 
assumption is that there's got to be a reason for it. Ideally, the reason for a 
-1 would have been expressed during the discussion period. As the roles that we 
have are actually not at all like what we had with OOo and more administrative 
(See http://openoffice.apache.org/pmc-faqs.html), it would help the future of 
the community (not just me or Andrea or any other future candidate) to know 
what prompts a -1. (Abstentions are a different matter. They indicate nothing.)
[ ... ]


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