Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 08:38, janI wrote: On 15 November 2013 08:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.in appropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :( I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this message -- javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7 in module jvmfwk The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about default values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7 o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7 o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of -source. but no specific information saying iyou can NOT specify a target value that is below your source value. I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't know for sure. Any other ideas? On my attempt to build on Windows with Java 1.7 (Windows 7 64bit Home Premium VM) I did the following: After having setup the build environment via configure, bootstrap and sourcing the creating 'winenv.set.sh' I set the environment variable JAVAFLAGS to -source 1.5 -target 1.5 by command - export JAVAFLAGS='-source 1.5 -target 1.5' My build was sucessfull and the resulting installation set worked on a different Windows machine with Java 1.6 I have done a similar thing on ubuntu 12.04, manually modified LinuxX86-64Env.Set.sh and it builds correctly. Unfortunately, I did not continued my work on it - e.g. - detecting the Java version during configure - setting JAVAFLAGS automatically depending on the detected Java version It seems the right place to do this is configure.in. But why detect version, why not simple set the flags ? Yes, you are right. When it works in the build environment with all the different Java versions this is the simply solution. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org Unfortunately for this little trial, I apparently misunderstood the reasoning, and did this -- javac -source 1.7 -target 1.5 which javac got upset with, and thus my error. On the other hand, I did get a lot of warnings (I use verbose build option) -- not permanently kept -- that were no doubt about deprecated or changed methods in our current code. These may be useful to us, I don't know. Maybe we don't need the -source, just -target? I also changed some of the other java requirements in configure.in to require 1.7 for building. So, I will play with this more in the next few days, and report back. -- - MzK “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 15 November 2013 18:59, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 08:38, janI wrote: On 15 November 2013 08:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.inappropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :( I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this message -- javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7 in module jvmfwk The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about default values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7 o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7 o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of -source. but no specific information saying iyou can NOT specify a target value that is below your source value. I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't know for sure. Any other ideas? On my attempt to build on Windows with Java 1.7 (Windows 7 64bit Home Premium VM) I did the following: After having setup the build environment via configure, bootstrap and sourcing the creating 'winenv.set.sh' I set the environment variable JAVAFLAGS to -source 1.5 -target 1.5 by command - export JAVAFLAGS='-source 1.5 -target 1.5' My build was sucessfull and the resulting installation set worked on a different Windows machine with Java 1.6 I have done a similar thing on ubuntu 12.04, manually modified LinuxX86-64Env.Set.sh and it builds correctly. Unfortunately, I did not continued my work on it - e.g. - detecting the Java version during configure - setting JAVAFLAGS automatically depending on the detected Java version It seems the right place to do this is configure.in. But why detect version, why not simple set the flags ? Yes, you are right. When it works in the build environment with all the different Java versions this is the simply solution. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org Unfortunately for this little trial, I apparently misunderstood the reasoning, and did this -- javac -source 1.7 -target 1.5 which javac got upset with, and thus my error. On the other hand, I did get a lot of warnings (I use verbose build option) -- not permanently kept -- that were no doubt about deprecated or changed methods in our current code. These may be useful to us, I don't know. How about making a BZ with the deprecated or changed methods, that could be a nice task a java developer. Maybe we don't need the -source, just -target? On ubuntu, it assumed 1.7 if I did not specify -source, and that gave me a lot of warnings (could be the same you saw). Adding -source 1.5 tell java that the source is 1.5. I also
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Nov 15, 2013 10:34 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 15 November 2013 18:59, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 08:38, janI wrote: On 15 November 2013 08:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.inappropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :( I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this message -- javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7 in module jvmfwk The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about default values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7 o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7 o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of -source. but no specific information saying iyou can NOT specify a target value that is below your source value. I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't know for sure. Any other ideas? On my attempt to build on Windows with Java 1.7 (Windows 7 64bit Home Premium VM) I did the following: After having setup the build environment via configure, bootstrap and sourcing the creating 'winenv.set.sh' I set the environment variable JAVAFLAGS to -source 1.5 -target 1.5 by command - export JAVAFLAGS='-source 1.5 -target 1.5' My build was sucessfull and the resulting installation set worked on a different Windows machine with Java 1.6 I have done a similar thing on ubuntu 12.04, manually modified LinuxX86-64Env.Set.sh and it builds correctly. Unfortunately, I did not continued my work on it - e.g. - detecting the Java version during configure - setting JAVAFLAGS automatically depending on the detected Java version It seems the right place to do this is configure.in. But why detect version, why not simple set the flags ? Yes, you are right. When it works in the build environment with all the different Java versions this is the simply solution. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org Unfortunately for this little trial, I apparently misunderstood the reasoning, and did this -- javac -source 1.7 -target 1.5 which javac got upset with, and thus my error. On the other hand, I did get a lot of warnings (I use verbose build option) -- not permanently kept -- that were no doubt about deprecated or changed methods in our current code. These may be useful to us, I don't know. How about making a BZ with the deprecated or changed methods, that could be a nice task a
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.in appropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :( I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this message -- javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7 in module jvmfwk The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about default values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7 o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7 o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of -source. but no specific information saying iyou can NOT specify a target value that is below your source value. I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't know for sure. Any other ideas? -- - MzK “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax -- - MzK “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
Hi, On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.in appropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :( I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this message -- javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7 in module jvmfwk The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about default values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7 o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7 o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of -source. but no specific information saying iyou can NOT specify a target value that is below your source value. I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't know for sure. Any other ideas? On my attempt to build on Windows with Java 1.7 (Windows 7 64bit Home Premium VM) I did the following: After having setup the build environment via configure, bootstrap and sourcing the creating 'winenv.set.sh' I set the environment variable JAVAFLAGS to -source 1.5 -target 1.5 by command - export JAVAFLAGS='-source 1.5 -target 1.5' My build was sucessfull and the resulting installation set worked on a different Windows machine with Java 1.6 Unfortunately, I did not continued my work on it - e.g. - detecting the Java version during configure - setting JAVAFLAGS automatically depending on the detected Java version Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
Hi, On 15.11.2013 08:38, janI wrote: On 15 November 2013 08:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.in appropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :( I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this message -- javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7 in module jvmfwk The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about default values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7 o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7 o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of -source. but no specific information saying iyou can NOT specify a target value that is below your source value. I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't know for sure. Any other ideas? On my attempt to build on Windows with Java 1.7 (Windows 7 64bit Home Premium VM) I did the following: After having setup the build environment via configure, bootstrap and sourcing the creating 'winenv.set.sh' I set the environment variable JAVAFLAGS to -source 1.5 -target 1.5 by command - export JAVAFLAGS='-source 1.5 -target 1.5' My build was sucessfull and the resulting installation set worked on a different Windows machine with Java 1.6 I have done a similar thing on ubuntu 12.04, manually modified LinuxX86-64Env.Set.sh and it builds correctly. Unfortunately, I did not continued my work on it - e.g. - detecting the Java version during configure - setting JAVAFLAGS automatically depending on the detected Java version It seems the right place to do this is configure.in. But why detect version, why not simple set the flags ? Yes, you are right. When it works in the build environment with all the different Java versions this is the simply solution. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations do not just apply to Windows. I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and change the settings for javacompiler in configure.in appropriately to deal with this. Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally and see what happens. +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs with both java 6 and java 7. rgds jan I. -- - MzK “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 22 September 2013 14:11, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote: Did we reach a consensus on this one? Wait until 4.1 to officially change java build environment to 7? Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for building with no problems. We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement) that it's unclear: - what the proposal is about exactly - what's broken in the current setup - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what the proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and maybe implemented in time for 4.1. Could we use the same thread to discuss our C++ compiler. I would like to have the MSVC 6.0 bumped to at least 7.0 but preferable 2012 (express version), that will give us better microsoft library support, and namespaces are properly implemented. rgds jan I. Regards, Andrea. --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:56 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 8 August 2013 11:43, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 August 2013 02:26, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. AIUI the compiler just has to be told to generate the appropriate code: javac -source 1.5 -target 1.5 The source will of course have to be 1.5 compatible. But is there very much Java code? thx. By the way there are no bytecode
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 8 August 2013 11:43, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 August 2013 02:26, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. AIUI the compiler just has to be told to generate the appropriate code: javac -source 1.5 -target 1.5 The source will of course have to be 1.5 compatible. But is there very much Java code? thx. By the way there are no bytecode changes, but bytecode ammendments, a 1.5 jar runs perfect in a 1.7 enviroment. There are 8.688 files in trunk, in my tree, some of them might be duplicates (unxlng6.pro) so a fair rule of thumb is 8.000 files. And remember, the cost of supporting old platforms is not just the dev work. It
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 5:43 AM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 August 2013 02:26, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. AIUI the compiler just has to be told to generate the appropriate code: javac -source 1.5 -target 1.5 The source will of course have to be 1.5 compatible. But is there very much Java code? And remember, the cost of supporting old platforms is not just the dev work. It also involves QA and support.. If we say we support something then we really ought to be testing in, not just saying that we not aware of any problems. The OpenOffice brand should mean that users can run on any supported platform and have a good experience. IMHO we should not say we support a platform unless we're willing and able to meet that kind of
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 8 August 2013 12:23, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 5:43 AM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 August 2013 02:26, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. AIUI the compiler just has to be told to generate the appropriate code: javac -source 1.5 -target 1.5 The source will of course have to be 1.5 compatible. But is there very much Java code? And remember, the cost of supporting old platforms is not just the dev work. It also involves QA and support.. If we say we support something then we really ought to be testing in, not just saying that we not aware of any problems. The OpenOffice brand should mean that users can run on any supported platform and have a good experience. IMHO we should not say we
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:56 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 8 August 2013 11:43, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 August 2013 02:26, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. AIUI the compiler just has to be told to generate the appropriate code: javac -source 1.5 -target 1.5 The source will of course have to be 1.5 compatible. But is there very much Java code? thx. By the way there are no bytecode changes, but bytecode ammendments, a 1.5 jar runs perfect in a 1.7 enviroment. There are
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
Hi Oliver, Am 07.08.2013 09:44, schrieb Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. If Java 6 has been dropped and Java 7 wasn't found on the system, wouldn't it be better to replace the general MsgBox There was no Java environment found by Java 7 or higher wasn't found? Otherwise people who know that they have 1.6 installed may be confused. Regards Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
Hi, On 07.08.2013 12:13, Peter Eberlein wrote: Hi Oliver, Am 07.08.2013 09:44, schrieb Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. If Java 6 has been dropped and Java 7 wasn't found on the system, wouldn't it be better to replace the general MsgBox There was no Java environment found by Java 7 or higher wasn't found? Otherwise people who know that they have 1.6 installed may be confused. I agree. In case that we decide to drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 on Windows, the corresponding message should be adjusted for Windows. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. Another perspective to consider: What leads to the most secure build environment for our binaries? I don't think we want to ever be building binaries that millions of users download, that are built on a machine with an unsupported JRE that is no longer receiving security patches. A build machine should be full patched against known security issues. And of course it should be used only for building, not for daily email and web browsing. So I think we should use JDK 1.7 for our builds. If that breaks Java 5 and Java 6 compatibility for end users, then this is unfortunate, but justifiable. We'll face a similar issue of this sort in April 2014, when Windows XP reaches End of Support by Microsoft. Do we then continue to support AOO on XP? Do we test with it? Perhaps. But we certainly would not build our binaries on XP, right? Regards, -Rob Some discussion already took place in the thread about my update on the AOO build environment for Windows. Here are the original statements: cite From Oliver: On a Windows system with JRE 6 the installation of my build does not recognize installed JRE 6 as an Java runtime environment (Menu - Tools - Option - Java). This is no problem from my point of view as our Windows users should not have JRE 6 installed anymore on their systems due to its security risks. Does somebody contradicts? From Andrea: As far as I know, this would be a significant limitation. We can now build with Java 5, 6 or 7 and the build can work with Java 5, 6 or 7 (regardless of the version used for building). Restricting this would require discussion, especially on less common platforms. From Oliver: I agree that it would be a restriction, but due to the security risks of Oracle's JRE 6 I do not think that such a restriction hurts. In contrast it would 'help' our Windows users to update their Java environment. Thus, let us start a new thread to discuss this topic. FromJürgen: we should think how relevant it is and if we have more work to support it. As Oliver pointed out, the latest security problems of Java result in probably many updated systems. I don't see that Java 5 or 6 is important in the future and we should focus on the future. /cite My arguements for a drop of the Java 5 and Java 6 support on Windows are: - JRE 5 is quite old and no longer officially available - JRE 6 is no longer officially available - JRE 6 has certain security risks and the corresponding tools on Widnows are reporting to update to JRE 7 - Simplify our work as we do not need to test under Windows JRE 5 and JRE 6 I currently see no need to support JRE 5 or JRE 6 in our future releases for Windows. Let us discuss openly more Pros and Cons on this topic. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:54:55 -0400 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. Another perspective to consider: What leads to the most secure build environment for our binaries? I don't think we want to ever be building binaries that millions of users download, that are built on a machine with an unsupported JRE that is no longer receiving security patches. A build machine should be full patched against known security issues. And of course it should be used only for building, not for daily email and web browsing. So I think we should use JDK 1.7 for our builds. If that breaks Java 5 and Java 6 compatibility for end users, then this is unfortunate, but justifiable. We'll face a similar issue of this sort in April 2014, when Windows XP reaches End of Support by Microsoft. Do we then continue to support AOO on XP? Do we test with it? Perhaps. But we certainly would not build our binaries on XP, right? Regards, -Rob Some discussion already took place in the thread about my update on the AOO build environment for Windows. Here are the original statements: cite From Oliver: On a Windows system with JRE 6 the installation of my build does not recognize installed JRE 6 as an Java runtime environment (Menu - Tools - Option - Java). This is no problem from my point of view as our Windows users should not have JRE 6 installed anymore on their systems due to its security risks. Does somebody contradicts? From Andrea: As far as I know, this would be a significant limitation. We can now build with Java 5, 6 or 7 and the build can work with Java 5, 6 or 7 (regardless of the version used for building). Restricting this would require discussion, especially on less common platforms. From Oliver: I agree that it would be a restriction, but due to the security risks of Oracle's JRE 6 I do not think that such a restriction hurts. In contrast it would 'help' our Windows users to update their Java environment. Thus, let us start a new thread to discuss this topic. FromJürgen: we should think how relevant it is and if we have more work to support it. As Oliver pointed out, the latest security problems of Java result in probably many updated systems. I don't see that Java 5 or 6 is important in the future and we should focus on the future. /cite My arguements for a drop of the Java 5 and Java 6 support on Windows are: - JRE 5 is quite old and no longer officially available - JRE 6 is no longer officially available - JRE 6 has certain security risks and the corresponding tools on Widnows are reporting to update to JRE 7 - Simplify our work as we do not need to test under Windows JRE 5 and JRE 6 I currently see no need to support JRE 5 or JRE 6 in our future releases for Windows. Let us discuss openly more Pros and Cons on this topic. I see no objection to future AOO releases requiring at least Java 1.7; ideally I would wish it continued to support XP (I suppose Win 2K is too much to hope for?). -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 7 August 2013 14:02, Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:54:55 -0400 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. Another perspective to consider: What leads to the most secure build environment for our binaries? I don't think we want to ever be building binaries that millions of users download, that are built on a machine with an unsupported JRE that is no longer receiving security patches. A build machine should be full patched against known security issues. And of course it should be used only for building, not for daily email and web browsing. So I think we should use JDK 1.7 for our builds. If that breaks Java 5 and Java 6 compatibility for end users, then this is unfortunate, but justifiable. We'll face a similar issue of this sort in April 2014, when Windows XP reaches End of Support by Microsoft. Do we then continue to support AOO on XP? Do we test with it? Perhaps. But we certainly would not build our binaries on XP, right? Regards, -Rob Some discussion already took place in the thread about my update on the AOO build environment for Windows. Here are the original statements: cite From Oliver: On a Windows system with JRE 6 the installation of my build does not recognize installed JRE 6 as an Java runtime environment (Menu - Tools - Option - Java). This is no problem from my point of view as our Windows users should not have JRE 6 installed anymore on their systems due to its security risks. Does somebody contradicts? From Andrea: As far as I know, this would be a significant limitation. We can now build with Java 5, 6 or 7 and the build can work with Java 5, 6 or 7 (regardless of the version used for building). Restricting this would require discussion, especially on less common platforms. From Oliver: I agree that it would be a restriction, but due to the security risks of Oracle's JRE 6 I do not think that such a restriction hurts. In contrast it would 'help' our Windows users to update their Java environment. Thus, let us start a new thread to discuss this topic. FromJürgen: we should think how relevant it is and if we have more work to support it. As Oliver pointed out, the latest security problems of Java result in probably many updated systems. I don't see that Java 5 or 6 is important in the future and we should focus on the future. /cite My arguements for a drop of the Java 5 and Java 6 support on Windows are: - JRE 5 is quite old and no longer officially available - JRE 6 is no longer officially available - JRE 6 has certain security risks and the corresponding tools on Widnows are reporting to update to JRE 7 - Simplify our work as we do not need to test under Windows JRE 5 and JRE 6 I currently see no need to support JRE 5 or JRE 6 in our future releases for Windows. Let us discuss openly more Pros and Cons on this topic. I see no objection to future AOO releases requiring at least Java 1.7; ideally I would wish it continued to support XP (I suppose Win 2K is too much to hope for?). I am all in favour of remove java 1.5 and 1.6 from our build environment, as they are a security risk. But we should exploit if its possible to use java 1.7 for build and accept java 5,6,7 as runtime. I have looked a bit in the code (I am no java guru), and I can see the APIs differentiate. We could overcome that with a couple of if statements (testing for version), question is do we also want to force our customers to use java 1.7 ? rgds jan I. -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On 7 August 2013 13:47, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 14:02, Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:54:55 -0400 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. Another perspective to consider: What leads to the most secure build environment for our binaries? I don't think we want to ever be building binaries that millions of users download, that are built on a machine with an unsupported JRE that is no longer receiving security patches. A build machine should be full patched against known security issues. And of course it should be used only for building, not for daily email and web browsing. So I think we should use JDK 1.7 for our builds. If that breaks Java 5 and Java 6 compatibility for end users, then this is unfortunate, but justifiable. We'll face a similar issue of this sort in April 2014, when Windows XP reaches End of Support by Microsoft. Do we then continue to support AOO on XP? Do we test with it? Perhaps. But we certainly would not build our binaries on XP, right? Regards, -Rob Some discussion already took place in the thread about my update on the AOO build environment for Windows. Here are the original statements: cite From Oliver: On a Windows system with JRE 6 the installation of my build does not recognize installed JRE 6 as an Java runtime environment (Menu - Tools - Option - Java). This is no problem from my point of view as our Windows users should not have JRE 6 installed anymore on their systems due to its security risks. Does somebody contradicts? From Andrea: As far as I know, this would be a significant limitation. We can now build with Java 5, 6 or 7 and the build can work with Java 5, 6 or 7 (regardless of the version used for building). Restricting this would require discussion, especially on less common platforms. From Oliver: I agree that it would be a restriction, but due to the security risks of Oracle's JRE 6 I do not think that such a restriction hurts. In contrast it would 'help' our Windows users to update their Java environment. Thus, let us start a new thread to discuss this topic. FromJürgen: we should think how relevant it is and if we have more work to support it. As Oliver pointed out, the latest security problems of Java result in probably many updated systems. I don't see that Java 5 or 6 is important in the future and we should focus on the future. /cite My arguements for a drop of the Java 5 and Java 6 support on Windows are: - JRE 5 is quite old and no longer officially available - JRE 6 is no longer officially available - JRE 6 has certain security risks and the corresponding tools on Widnows are reporting to update to JRE 7 - Simplify our work as we do not need to test under Windows JRE 5 and JRE 6 I currently see no need to support JRE 5 or JRE 6 in our future releases for Windows. Let us discuss openly more Pros and Cons on this topic. I see no objection to future AOO releases requiring at least Java 1.7; ideally I would wish it continued to support XP (I suppose Win 2K is too much to hope for?). I am all in favour of remove java 1.5 and 1.6 from our build environment, as they are a security risk. But we should exploit if its possible to use java 1.7 for build and accept java 5,6,7 as runtime. I have looked a bit in the code (I am no java guru), and I can see the APIs differentiate. We could overcome that with a couple of if statements (testing for version), question is do we also want to force our customers to use java 1.7 ? Where is this code? Not sure I'd class myself as a Java guru, but I have done quite a bit of work on Java compatibilty issues, so I might be able to help. rgds jan I. -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:47 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 14:02, Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:54:55 -0400 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to discuss here, if we drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for AOO installation on Windows. Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. Thus, it comes into my mind to drop the support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows. Another perspective to consider: What leads to the most secure build environment for our binaries? I don't think we want to ever be building binaries that millions of users download, that are built on a machine with an unsupported JRE that is no longer receiving security patches. A build machine should be full patched against known security issues. And of course it should be used only for building, not for daily email and web browsing. So I think we should use JDK 1.7 for our builds. If that breaks Java 5 and Java 6 compatibility for end users, then this is unfortunate, but justifiable. We'll face a similar issue of this sort in April 2014, when Windows XP reaches End of Support by Microsoft. Do we then continue to support AOO on XP? Do we test with it? Perhaps. But we certainly would not build our binaries on XP, right? Regards, -Rob Some discussion already took place in the thread about my update on the AOO build environment for Windows. Here are the original statements: cite From Oliver: On a Windows system with JRE 6 the installation of my build does not recognize installed JRE 6 as an Java runtime environment (Menu - Tools - Option - Java). This is no problem from my point of view as our Windows users should not have JRE 6 installed anymore on their systems due to its security risks. Does somebody contradicts? From Andrea: As far as I know, this would be a significant limitation. We can now build with Java 5, 6 or 7 and the build can work with Java 5, 6 or 7 (regardless of the version used for building). Restricting this would require discussion, especially on less common platforms. From Oliver: I agree that it would be a restriction, but due to the security risks of Oracle's JRE 6 I do not think that such a restriction hurts. In contrast it would 'help' our Windows users to update their Java environment. Thus, let us start a new thread to discuss this topic. FromJürgen: we should think how relevant it is and if we have more work to support it. As Oliver pointed out, the latest security problems of Java result in probably many updated systems. I don't see that Java 5 or 6 is important in the future and we should focus on the future. /cite My arguements for a drop of the Java 5 and Java 6 support on Windows are: - JRE 5 is quite old and no longer officially available - JRE 6 is no longer officially available - JRE 6 has certain security risks and the corresponding tools on Widnows are reporting to update to JRE 7 - Simplify our work as we do not need to test under Windows JRE 5 and JRE 6 I currently see no need to support JRE 5 or JRE 6 in our future releases for Windows. Let us discuss openly more Pros and Cons on this topic. I see no objection to future AOO releases requiring at least Java 1.7; ideally I would wish it continued to support XP (I suppose Win 2K is too much to hope for?). I am all in favour of remove java 1.5 and 1.6 from our build environment, as they are a security risk. But we should exploit if its possible to use java 1.7 for build and accept java 5,6,7 as runtime. I think we should drop java 1.6 and less for both build and runtime requirements on ALL builds, not just Windows. I don't really know at this point what the differences are on the buld vs runtime business, but I would almost bet there will be some cases -- maybe many -- in which a build with higher java can NOT be run with lower jvm. I have looked a bit in the code (I am no java guru), and I can see the APIs differentiate. We could overcome that with a couple of if statements (testing for version), question is do we also want to force our customers to use java 1.7 ? Yes, I think this would be wise given security and performance considerations.
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage (means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. Regards, Andrea. --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK Success is falling nine times and getting up ten. -- Jon Bon Jovi
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: My arguements for a drop of the Java 5 and Java 6 support on Windows are: - JRE 5 is quite old and no longer officially available - JRE 6 is no longer officially available - JRE 6 has certain security risks and the corresponding tools on Widnows are reporting to update to JRE 7 Yes, Java 6 on windows is EOL'd. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Peter Eberlein pet@refofd.verwalt-berlin.de wrote: If Java 6 has been dropped and Java 7 wasn't found on the system, wouldn't it be better to replace the general MsgBox There was no Java environment found by Java 7 or higher wasn't found? Otherwise people who know that they have 1.6 installed may be confused. +1 FC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. And remember, the cost of supporting old platforms is not just the dev work. It also involves QA and support.. If we say we support something then we really ought to be testing in, not just saying that we not aware of any problems. The OpenOffice brand should mean that users can run on any supported platform and have a good experience. IMHO we should not say we support a platform unless we're willing and able to meet that kind of expectation. As a practical matter we cannot be testing every platform on 3 different JVM versions. That's not going to happen. The test matrix is too large. Even on Windows that is XP/Vista/Win7/Win8 or 4 platforms * 3 JVM's, or 12 combinations. And that is just Windows. -Rob Regards, Andrea.
Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows
On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:26 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 7 August 2013 18:55, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Important note for discussion: it is all about platform Windows. On my work to update the AOO build environment for Windows I recognized that it is hard to get an official JDK 1.5 (Java 5) or JDK 1.6 (Java 6) for Windows. Thus, I decided to go with JDK 1.7. The resulting AOO installation on Windows no longer works together with an JRE 6. It does not recognize an installed JRE 6 as an valid Java runtime environment. May we frame the problem in more technical terms, just to know what is broken? For example, why is this affecting only Windows and why is Java 6 not recognized in your build? Could the problem be in detection rather than in the actual compatibility? Java issues were extensively discussed in earlier times, so here's a quick summary that also answers most of the questions in this thread: - As of 4.0, OpenOffice can be built with Java 5, 6 or 7 - Whatever you use for building, the resulting binary has a Java baseline of 1.5 as per http://wiki.openoffice.org/** wiki/Policies/Java_Usage http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Policies/Java_Usage(means: runs with Java 5, 6 or 7) - We built 4.0 with Java 6 (on Linux at least; not 100% sure about other platforms) In general, I agree that we should build on the most secure platform available. But, based on the above, what is the relationship between building on Java 7 and running on Java 6? To reuse Rob's Windows XP argument, sure we should build on a supported (by Microsoft) Windows version, but, if at all possible/reasonable, we shouldn't break compatibility with Windows XP. I am sorry if this posting is obvious to everyone, but reading the remarks, make me think there are some confusion about what we mean with using java for development and runtime. One of the strength of java is program once, run everywhere . This is accomplished by by 2 magic trix (compared to eg. C++). 1) Java does not compile to machine code but to pcode (a virtual machine), therefore you can build the program on linux, and run the build on window (or even one of the big mainframes). 2) Java also does late binding (think of a very smart dll), so libraries are not part of your build. This means you can use a java development 1.7 on any platform, to make a build that runs on any platform and (nearly) any java runtime version. As an example I use areca backup, its a java program, the exact same jar files run on vista,xp,win7,ubuntu and even android, areca is programm towards java 1.4, and I have 1.6 and 1.7 installed depending on platform. The problem is the classes and the API. If our code use just a single java 1.7 specific call, the runtime must be at least 1.7. This is however no problem today, our code is build for the classes and api available in java runtime 1.5, so it will run there. Oracle have promised to keep the API and classes for 1.4 and forwards stable, and available in new versions. They are pretty good at living up to the promise So in theory we can change build environment to java 1.7 and not tell user, as long as we only use 1.5 API and classes. As part of a release cycle, we should of course test once with runtime 1.5. I wrote in theory because in the real world, we might want to (in future releases) use the 1.7 api for e.g. performance reasons, when that time comes we would have to make a wrapper class, just like we have in C++ to cover differences Linux/windows. Sorry again, if I misread the postings, but this is very much different from the XP scenario. rgds jan I. Thank you for this great explanation! So basically, review the AOO java API. It is a bit more complicated than that. The Java language itself has evolved, not just the libraries. There are bytecode changes as well. The difference between Java 1.7/1.6 is not very big, but there are more significant differences if you need to maintain compatibility with Java 1.5. Not impossible, but it would be extra effort. And remember, the cost of supporting old platforms is not just the dev work. It also involves QA and support.. If we say we support something then we really ought to be testing in, not just saying that we not aware of any problems. The OpenOffice brand should mean that users can run on any supported platform and have a good experience. IMHO we should not say we support a platform unless we're willing and able to meet that kind of expectation. As a practical matter we cannot be testing every platform on 3 different JVM versions. That's not going to happen. The test matrix is too large. Even on Windows that is XP/Vista/Win7/Win8 or 4 platforms * 3 JVM's, or 12 combinations. And that is just Windows.
