Re: Weird para at Zotero site
Thanks, Simon. Wolf Halton -- http://wolfhalton.info Apache developer: wolfhal...@apache.org On Aug 13, 2013 1:48 AM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: It looks like that page was updated with exactly what I'm asking for since the last time I looked at it. Thanks for the pointer, and sorry for the noise. I'll see if I can get things working in the near future. Simon On Aug 12, 2013, at 2:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Simon Kornblith wrote: my basic question is: How can I build an extension that works after upgrading from AOO 3.4 to 4.0 without requiring intervention on the part of the user? If your problem is addons.xcu, the page Alexandro pointed you to http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 has some remarks on how to do that. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
Simon Kornblith wrote: my basic question is: How can I build an extension that works after upgrading from AOO 3.4 to 4.0 without requiring intervention on the part of the user? If your problem is addons.xcu, the page Alexandro pointed you to http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 has some remarks on how to do that. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
It looks like that page was updated with exactly what I'm asking for since the last time I looked at it. Thanks for the pointer, and sorry for the noise. I'll see if I can get things working in the near future. Simon On Aug 12, 2013, at 2:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Simon Kornblith wrote: my basic question is: How can I build an extension that works after upgrading from AOO 3.4 to 4.0 without requiring intervention on the part of the user? If your problem is addons.xcu, the page Alexandro pointed you to http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 has some remarks on how to do that. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
This seems a bit full of memes. Which is also a big hurdle on our lack of marketing to bring users back into the active state of Apache OpenOffice. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: *Though I am not personally all that active.. * I think AOO is extremely actively under development. * Apache OpenOffice 4 users:* Zotero does not currently support Apache OpenOffice 4. While a future release may include support for Apache OpenOffice 4, we encourage you to switch to LibreOfficehttp://www.libreoffice.org/download, which is based on the same codebase but is more actively developed. http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Grrr! Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com http://atlantaCloudTech.com Apache Developer wolfhal...@apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Dan Stillman dstill...@zotero.org wrote: Nothing to do with memes or marketing. https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30885/openoffice-400-no-zotero-toolbar/ So acording to this forum, is because of Apache OpenOffice active development as opposed to innactive development that Zotero plugin can't work. We have been documenting the changes and docs for extension mantainers http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 Why toolbar change? As you might know UX changes in AOO4 had an impact on the XML schema for our UI. Feel free to add support for 4.0 following these improvements. On 8/11/13 7:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: This seems a bit full of memes. Which is also a big hurdle on our lack of marketing to bring users back into the active state of Apache OpenOffice. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.comwrote: *Though I am not personally all that active.. * I think AOO is extremely actively under development. * Apache OpenOffice 4 users:* Zotero does not currently support Apache OpenOffice 4. While a future release may include support for Apache OpenOffice 4, we encourage you to switch to LibreOfficehttp://www.libreoffice.org/download, which is based on the same codebase but is more actively developed. http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Grrr! Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com http://atlantaCloudTech.com Apache Developer wolfhal...@apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
As I wrote in a previous post to openoffice-dev, this is not just about having to modify the extension, which I would be happy to do. It's also about having to modify the way we install the extension. But it's mostly that our extension will break on upgrade from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4 for 100% of our users no matter what, and the best we can do is to pop up a dialog telling the user to update or reinstall it. If we can get a promise that future updates to AOO will always allow a single extension to work with both previous and current AOO versions (even if updates to the extension are necessary to do so) then I'd feel better about supporting AOO 4. Simon On Aug 11, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Dan Stillman dstill...@zotero.org wrote: Nothing to do with memes or marketing. https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30885/openoffice-400-no-zotero-toolbar/ So acording to this forum, is because of Apache OpenOffice active development as opposed to innactive development that Zotero plugin can't work. We have been documenting the changes and docs for extension mantainers http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 Why toolbar change? As you might know UX changes in AOO4 had an impact on the XML schema for our UI. Feel free to add support for 4.0 following these improvements. On 8/11/13 7:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: This seems a bit full of memes. Which is also a big hurdle on our lack of marketing to bring users back into the active state of Apache OpenOffice. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: *Though I am not personally all that active.. * I think AOO is extremely actively under development. * Apache OpenOffice 4 users:* Zotero does not currently support Apache OpenOffice 4. While a future release may include support for Apache OpenOffice 4, we encourage you to switch to LibreOfficehttp://www.libreoffice.org/download, which is based on the same codebase but is more actively developed. http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Grrr! Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.comhttp://atlantaCloudTech.com Apache Developer wolfhal...@apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: As I wrote in a previous post to openoffice-dev, this is not just about having to modify the extension, which I would be happy to do. It's also about having to modify the way we install the extension. But it's mostly that our extension will break on upgrade from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4 for 100% of our users no matter what, and the best we can do is to pop up a dialog telling the user to update or reinstall it. If we can get a promise that future updates to AOO will always allow a single extension to work with both previous and current AOO versions (even if updates to the extension are necessary to do so) then I'd feel better about supporting AOO 4. The goal now, as always, is to preserve compatibility within a major release series. So extensions for AOO 4.0 should be run fine on AOO 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. However, at major version updates, e.g., AOO 5.0, then you can expect extensions will need to be updated. Such major version releases happen at long intervals, longer than (I assume) your regular maintenance updates in your extension itself. Regards, -Rob Simon On Aug 11, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Dan Stillman dstill...@zotero.org wrote: Nothing to do with memes or marketing. https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30885/openoffice-400-no-zotero-toolbar/ So acording to this forum, is because of Apache OpenOffice active development as opposed to innactive development that Zotero plugin can't work. We have been documenting the changes and docs for extension mantainers http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 Why toolbar change? As you might know UX changes in AOO4 had an impact on the XML schema for our UI. Feel free to add support for 4.0 following these improvements. On 8/11/13 7:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: This seems a bit full of memes. Which is also a big hurdle on our lack of marketing to bring users back into the active state of Apache OpenOffice. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: *Though I am not personally all that active.. * I think AOO is extremely actively under development. * Apache OpenOffice 4 users:* Zotero does not currently support Apache OpenOffice 4. While a future release may include support for Apache OpenOffice 4, we encourage you to switch to LibreOfficehttp://www.libreoffice.org/download, which is based on the same codebase but is more actively developed. http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Grrr! Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.comhttp://atlantaCloudTech.com Apache Developer wolfhal...@apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
On Aug 11, 2013, at 8:02 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: As I wrote in a previous post to openoffice-dev, this is not just about having to modify the extension, which I would be happy to do. It's also about having to modify the way we install the extension. But it's mostly that our extension will break on upgrade from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4 for 100% of our users no matter what, and the best we can do is to pop up a dialog telling the user to update or reinstall it. If we can get a promise that future updates to AOO will always allow a single extension to work with both previous and current AOO versions (even if updates to the extension are necessary to do so) then I'd feel better about supporting AOO 4. The goal now, as always, is to preserve compatibility within a major release series. So extensions for AOO 4.0 should be run fine on AOO 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. However, at major version updates, e.g., AOO 5.0, then you can expect extensions will need to be updated. Such major version releases happen at long intervals, longer than (I assume) your regular maintenance updates in your extension itself. To be clear: we are happy to make changes to our extension to accommodate new AOO versions. We make frequent changes to our Firefox extension to keep up with Firefox releases, and we realize that API changes are sometimes necessary to build a stable and competitive product. What makes us unhappy is that it is impossible to build an extension that works with both AOO 3.4 and AOO 4, and there is no change that we can make to our extension that will prevent it from breaking when a user upgrades from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4. No matter what we do, our users need to install a different extension after upgrading to AOO 4 to make Zotero work again. From our standpoint, this not acceptable. It doesn't just take our time; it takes our users' and our community support's time as well, and it's unprecedented in 7 years' experience developing add-ons for Firefox, Word, and OpenOffice.org. Again, it would be fine if the extension needs changes to work with 5.0, as long as the same extension can still work with 4.x. There are a lot of ways to do this, the easiest of which is just to allow loading different versions of files for different AOO versions. Simon Regards, -Rob Simon On Aug 11, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Dan Stillman dstill...@zotero.org wrote: Nothing to do with memes or marketing. https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30885/openoffice-400-no-zotero-toolbar/ So acording to this forum, is because of Apache OpenOffice active development as opposed to innactive development that Zotero plugin can't work. We have been documenting the changes and docs for extension mantainers http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 Why toolbar change? As you might know UX changes in AOO4 had an impact on the XML schema for our UI. Feel free to add support for 4.0 following these improvements. On 8/11/13 7:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: This seems a bit full of memes. Which is also a big hurdle on our lack of marketing to bring users back into the active state of Apache OpenOffice. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: *Though I am not personally all that active.. * I think AOO is extremely actively under development. * Apache OpenOffice 4 users:* Zotero does not currently support Apache OpenOffice 4. While a future release may include support for Apache OpenOffice 4, we encourage you to switch to LibreOfficehttp://www.libreoffice.org/download, which is based on the same codebase but is more actively developed. http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Grrr! Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.comhttp://atlantaCloudTech.com Apache Developer wolfhal...@apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: On Aug 11, 2013, at 8:02 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: As I wrote in a previous post to openoffice-dev, this is not just about having to modify the extension, which I would be happy to do. It's also about having to modify the way we install the extension. But it's mostly that our extension will break on upgrade from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4 for 100% of our users no matter what, and the best we can do is to pop up a dialog telling the user to update or reinstall it. If we can get a promise that future updates to AOO will always allow a single extension to work with both previous and current AOO versions (even if updates to the extension are necessary to do so) then I'd feel better about supporting AOO 4. The goal now, as always, is to preserve compatibility within a major release series. So extensions for AOO 4.0 should be run fine on AOO 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. However, at major version updates, e.g., AOO 5.0, then you can expect extensions will need to be updated. Such major version releases happen at long intervals, longer than (I assume) your regular maintenance updates in your extension itself. To be clear: we are happy to make changes to our extension to accommodate new AOO versions. We make frequent changes to our Firefox extension to keep up with Firefox releases, and we realize that API changes are sometimes necessary to build a stable and competitive product. What makes us unhappy is that it is impossible to build an extension that works with both AOO 3.4 and AOO 4, and there is no change that we can make to our extension that will prevent it from breaking when a user upgrades from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4. No matter what we do, our users need to install a different extension after upgrading to AOO 4 to make Zotero work again. From our standpoint, this not acceptable. It doesn't just take our time; it takes our users' and our community support's time as well, and it's unprecedented in 7 years' experience developing add-ons for Firefox, Word, and OpenOffice.org. Again, it would be fine if the extension needs changes to work with 5.0, as long as the same extension can still work with 4.x. There are a lot of ways to do this, the easiest of which is just to allow loading different versions of files for different AOO versions. It is not my role to tell you what to do. Zotero is working under the sponsorship of a non-profit organization, like we are. We're all trying to do what is best for users. We'll all working hard at what we do, trying to bring value to users. I'm not going to argue what you should do, though I am happy to answer any questions you might have about how to update your extensions. But I will say that we have had over 60 million downloads of Apache OpenOffice, making us by far the most popular open source productivity suite in use today. So if Zotero is not able to work with Apache OpenOffice, many of our mutual users will be upset. So I hope you can find someway to adapt your code. Regards, -Rob Simon Regards, -Rob Simon On Aug 11, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Dan Stillman dstill...@zotero.org wrote: Nothing to do with memes or marketing. https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30885/openoffice-400-no-zotero-toolbar/ So acording to this forum, is because of Apache OpenOffice active development as opposed to innactive development that Zotero plugin can't work. We have been documenting the changes and docs for extension mantainers http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0 Why toolbar change? As you might know UX changes in AOO4 had an impact on the XML schema for our UI. Feel free to add support for 4.0 following these improvements. On 8/11/13 7:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: This seems a bit full of memes. Which is also a big hurdle on our lack of marketing to bring users back into the active state of Apache OpenOffice. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: *Though I am not personally all that active.. * I think AOO is extremely actively under development. * Apache OpenOffice 4 users:* Zotero does not currently support Apache OpenOffice 4. While a future release may include support for Apache OpenOffice 4, we encourage you to switch to LibreOfficehttp://www.libreoffice.org/download, which is based on the same codebase but is more actively developed. http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Grrr! Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.comhttp://atlantaCloudTech.com Apache Developer wolfhal...@apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor
Re: Weird para at Zotero site
On Aug 11, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: On Aug 11, 2013, at 8:02 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Simon Kornblith si...@simonster.com wrote: As I wrote in a previous post to openoffice-dev, this is not just about having to modify the extension, which I would be happy to do. It's also about having to modify the way we install the extension. But it's mostly that our extension will break on upgrade from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4 for 100% of our users no matter what, and the best we can do is to pop up a dialog telling the user to update or reinstall it. If we can get a promise that future updates to AOO will always allow a single extension to work with both previous and current AOO versions (even if updates to the extension are necessary to do so) then I'd feel better about supporting AOO 4. The goal now, as always, is to preserve compatibility within a major release series. So extensions for AOO 4.0 should be run fine on AOO 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. However, at major version updates, e.g., AOO 5.0, then you can expect extensions will need to be updated. Such major version releases happen at long intervals, longer than (I assume) your regular maintenance updates in your extension itself. To be clear: we are happy to make changes to our extension to accommodate new AOO versions. We make frequent changes to our Firefox extension to keep up with Firefox releases, and we realize that API changes are sometimes necessary to build a stable and competitive product. What makes us unhappy is that it is impossible to build an extension that works with both AOO 3.4 and AOO 4, and there is no change that we can make to our extension that will prevent it from breaking when a user upgrades from AOO 3.4 to AOO 4. No matter what we do, our users need to install a different extension after upgrading to AOO 4 to make Zotero work again. From our standpoint, this not acceptable. It doesn't just take our time; it takes our users' and our community support's time as well, and it's unprecedented in 7 years' experience developing add-ons for Firefox, Word, and OpenOffice.org. Again, it would be fine if the extension needs changes to work with 5.0, as long as the same extension can still work with 4.x. There are a lot of ways to do this, the easiest of which is just to allow loading different versions of files for different AOO versions. It is not my role to tell you what to do. Zotero is working under the sponsorship of a non-profit organization, like we are. We're all trying to do what is best for users. We'll all working hard at what we do, trying to bring value to users. I'm not going to argue what you should do, though I am happy to answer any questions you might have about how to update your extensions. Well, my basic question is: How can I build an extension that works after upgrading from AOO 3.4 to 4.0 without requiring intervention on the part of the user? I have the feeling that there must be a way to do this, either by creating a toolbar dynamically instead of using Addons.xcu or by making the extension modify itself after the upgrade is complete, but it's beyond my knowledge of the AOO API. Auto-update is not an option, since we need to ensure that the the extension installed in AOO matches the installed version of Zotero, and in any case most of our users won't notice the Updates for extensions are available bubble or understand its relationship to Zotero. It would also be useful to know the best practice for determining the version of AOO that is installed, assuming we know the path to the AOO directory. Simon
