So in the real world, there ARE interoperability problems
that you just cannot argue away. What real users (will) use is NOT "just KDE
Plasma".
Kevin Kofler
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cate application
Firefox that bundles its own, completely different web engine. See:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1920298 . (The main argument has
always been market share, which at 2% market share and steadily decreasing
does not
he KDE Plasma maintainers to do anything, we just want
to maintain 2 packages that conform to all Fedora guidelines in Fedora.
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n lock will be moot.
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ell, I'm getting bug
> reports filed against elementary / Pantheon packages, and there's not
> even a usable Pantheon session in Fedora yet!)
Yeah. So, what advantages are there to this being in the main fedora
collection of packages over just in a copr?
I suppose with official packages y
h if they do not already support this on X11.)
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Marc Deop i Argemí wrote:
> We are not banning nor deleting anything. We are not _supporting_ it.
You (folks) deleted the subpackages and filed a FESCo ticket requesting that
they be banned from (re)entering Fedora as separately-built packages
maintained by others.
Kevin Kof
gacy applications are maintained, but considered
legacy for other reasons (such as depending on unmaintained libraries, or
implementing an obsolete technology, etc.), but that is not the typical
case.
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2 with the temporary Copr enabled).
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Garry T. Williams wrote:
> I hope my report can be resolved before I am forced to use Wayland.
You will not be forced to use Wayland. Stay tuned.
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know).
See the discussion about my Plasma X11 packages. If you cannot avoid the
hard version dependency (it looks like, in the GCC plugin case, it might be
possible), this is the same situation.
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Tom Seewald wrote:
> You were implying that Kevin was claiming to be an "unbiased observer" and
> that him being banned from the KDE SIG means he has ulterior motives for
> this beyond simply maintaining Plasma X11 packages.
To make this clear, my motivation for maintaining
ome a formal SIG, it will have
to be named something like "KDE X11 SIG" or "Plasma X11 SIG" or some
combination thereof.
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Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> Steve Cossette wrote:
>> There's also a secondary thing that I feel hasn't been discussed here
>> though: I know work is being done right now to isolate the x11
>> components of plasma and add build-time options to strip out those
>> compo
PS:
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> The atmosphere on #fedora-kde IRC radically changed on 2020-07-13.
I also think that that date was not a coincidence, because shortly after
that date, the KDE SIG went through with such changes as:
* Wayland by default for Plasma,
* a push for
s that they took offense at the *tone* of the
criticism (something they are attempting here too:
Neal Gompa wrote:
> Frankly, I'm disappointed in your response as well as the tone of you
> [= Sérgio] and Kevin.
) because that is a much more socially acceptable way to silence criticism
than
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> Then we will submit 10-15+ *-x11 packages for review. It can be done.
PS: Users will only have to install plasma-workspace-x11. If there is some
optional library that needs an ld.so.conf.d override or a plugin to support
X11, it can be conditionally drag
packages in Fedora proper making
use of that linker feature, e.g., it is (or at least used to be) used by
CPU-optimized BLAS libraries.
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Neal Gompa wrote:
> It's extremely obvious that people want to use it. You replied to
> someone who did and denigrated their opinion. Frankly, I'm
> disappointed in your response as well as the tone of you and Kevin.
I cannot really speak for Sérgio. I do think his choice
ng), because there is nothing to
comaintain before that point and also nowhere I can fill in those
comaintainership requests before the dist-git Pagure repository is created.
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he {kwin,plasma-workspace}-x11 packages (as
long as they do not intend to abuse their access to retire the package
without my agreement, of course). More helping hands = less work per person.
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to enjoy your
"amazing" HDR etc. with no changes whatsoever. Nobody is taking that away
from you.
All I am asking, and willing to make happen, is to not take Plasma X11 away
from us.
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Peter Hutterer wrote:
> Fedora still ships the previous release, server 1.20.x
So should we not upgrade that to the latest upstream release (Xorg 21.0)?
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d.
> "force people" "hit snag"
>
> With this kind of attitude, don't be surprised when people describe Fedora
> as "the beta test" for Red Hat.
+1, kinda what I was about to say, except with s/beta/alpha/. :-)
Kevin Kofler
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ven if and when KDE upstream
drops their X11 support. Kinda like I have been doing for, e.g., Blogilo.
Realistic would be until the release of Plasma 7, unless some Plasma 6.x
introduces major changes that make it impractical. But I hope this is not
going to be a concern for Fedo
sers than Wayland, great, but if not, I am afraid there is probably not
much I can do about that.
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Fedora
t would
take an additional blunder for the package that gets accidentally installed
to actually break something (except in the Obsoletes case if it accidentally
obsoletes an essential package).
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there.
I am not surprised that your announcements were not taken seriously, because
dropping X11 sounds so unreasonable to not just me that it just cannot be
taken seriously.
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here are also more X11 features of this type that are not currently
implemented in Wayland.
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Fedora C
not want to get into an Epoch war
about that Obsoletes and I hope the KDE SIG does not want that either).
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Fe
t work for everyone.
But the separate packages as I submitted them for review are the next best
solution.
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Fed
ync branches and build updates can
probably do that with no extra human effort.) Though, if not, I can do that
too, if only they tell me about the update and the side tag as soon as
possible, at least before they hit that "push to stable&quo
On Thu, Feb 01, 2024 at 02:51:54AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> kevin wrote:
> > distro-sync is nice and all, but it's not a silver bullet.
> > In cases of simple packages a downgrade may not break anything, but in
> > cases where other things already built upon
t be reverted.
Actually, the downgrade masquerading as an "upgrade" (due to the Epoch) only
makes it more likely that any issues related to the downgrade (such as the
ones the other Kevin, Kevin Fenzi, pointed out) will catch the user by
surprise. If the distro-sync (which should be the default way
kevin wrote:
> distro-sync is nice and all, but it's not a silver bullet.
> In cases of simple packages a downgrade may not break anything, but in
> cases where other things already built upon it, where the new one
> changed conguration or interface, or even where the upgrade ch
On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 06:40:19AM -0800, Troy Dawson wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 6:37 AM Neal Gompa wrote:
> >
> > This seems reasonable to me.
> >
>
> I agree with Neal, this looks good to me.
> Thank you for the nice explanation/write-up.
Yeah, same he
will land
soon and you will not need to wait on a manual process anymore.
kevin
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hat the SIG is not unduly
> burdened, and the threshold petition would
> never need to be considered.
Yeah, I agree.
kevin
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raded version ever made it into a
> > Rawhide compose.
>
> This is the kind of rule that is a prime target for automation. Can we
> have Fedora Rawhide gating validate that the NEVR doesn't go backwards,
> and block bad builds from getting into the compose.
Yeah, seems like i
On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 01:19:18AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> Sérgio Basto wrote:
> > yes rawhide user should use dnf distro-sync not dnf upgrade
>
> +1. Rawhide EVRs should be allowed to go backwards, that is an integral part
> of being a development branch.
d
Sérgio Basto wrote:
> yes rawhide user should use dnf distro-sync not dnf upgrade
+1. Rawhide EVRs should be allowed to go backwards, that is an integral part
of being a development branch.
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g forward to contribute to Fedora especially
> in the i18n area and beta testing.
Welcome!
You may be interested in the #i18n:fedoraproject.org and
#quality:fedoraproject.org matrix channels if you haven't already seen
them. :)
kevin
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wildly unexpected ways), but so we can all learn from the
> mistake.
Absolutely.
Things are not fully normal now, but everything should be up from the
user perspective. We will be working to get the cluster back to a normal
state in the next few days, then we can look at retrospective
kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/mass-rebuild/f40-failures.html>
> >
>
> We should fix builds to rawhide , right ? or should we build in tag
> f40-rebuild ?
You can just fix in rawhide as normal.
If you need to rebuild things that were built into f40-rebuild by the
mass rebuild, thats f
mply skipped. I think it's better to not skip them
and have them fail than ignore them.
kevin
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should ever cause something that be caught by the hook, and if it did,
it would be better for it to do the commit anyhow and cause a failed
build. IMHO.
So, I think we should run with --no-verify.
kevin
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s though. But of course if it was
completely broken it would fail after that anyhow...
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set up coexistence. 127.0.0.53 is unfortunately not
an independent interface, it is still the lo interface.
> On 14. 01. 24 1:57, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
>> On a server I administer for work, I have dnsmasq serving the DNS for an
>> ocserv (OpenConnect) VPN, listening only on
ering would
not have worked exactly for the reason you describe above. But that server
is not running Fedora anyway.
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this... I assume you plan to get it all done before the
mass rebuild starts? (2024-01-17)
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t;
> Hi,
> the leftover packages to be done, for which I do not have commit
> rights, are:
>
>elementary-calendar
>evolution-chime (which is part of pidgin-chime)
>gnome-panel
>phosh
Phosh is done.
kevin
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Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> Aoife Moloney wrote:
>> == Summary ==
>> The `/usr/sbin` directory becomes a symlink to `bin`, which means
>> paths like `/usr/bin/foo` and `/usr/sbin/foo` point to the same place.
>> `/bin` and `/sbin` are already symlinks to `/usr/
urse do not expect %{_bindir} and %{_sbindir} to be the same
or symlinks to the same. (They are different macros for a reason.)
(I wish I would not have to patch binaries at all, but the KDE SIG refuses
to carry patches removing those broken checks from the KDE programs.)
>
> > $ git config sendemail.to
> > cfitsio-ow...@fedoraproject.org
> >
>
>
> Please file a report with Fedora Infrastructure at
> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
This is actually set in fedpkg (or perhaps rpkg?).
So, best to fil
able-ID set to the SSID), or to
plain "stable"?
As explained in my other mail, "stable-ssid" is basically useless, whereas
plain "stable" has the potential to break things (as Robert Nichols
explained).
Kevin Kofler
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rther uplink should not get your MAC address to
begin with anyway (only your IP address).
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t use LogoFAIL to bypass Restricted Boot entirely without
bothering with signatures at all?
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Fedora
> cause of my personal issue, or other factors. Thanks in advance.
>
> [1] https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11829
> [2] https://pagure.io/releng/fedora-scm-requests/issue/58752
Just to note, this was all taken care shortly after you opened the
tickets. :)
kevin
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Descr
to react to communications, just
making the effort helps everyone know what happened and whats going on.
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Thanks for working on this Jakub. I think it's quite useful. :)
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Fedora Code
I'm definitely in favor. I hit this broken step a while back myself. ;(
Hopefully the current maintainers are on board with this?
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ly assuming that
sizeof(ssize_t)==sizeof(jlong) (i.e., 8) everywhere.
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t just makes my work harder (or in practice, just
wastes my time for the revert that I am inevitably going to do).
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causing bugs is much lower), as much I have to
wonder about the others. Especially the incompatible pointer types sound
more like nitpicking than actual bugs (though I guess strict aliasing can
cause issues with those, but then I would expect to see -Wstrict-ali
or pagure.io groups. See:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/toddlers/issue/177
Note that that needs a upstream pending pr to be merged, a new release
cut and us to update to it to get the api endpoint.
kevin
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Also... if you meant the scm-commits mailing list, then yeah, that is broken
currently. ;(
https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues/1024
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hat you want
them in the new application:
https://notifications.fedoraproject.org/
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Fe
tainers should be the ones to do this... so as long as
we have those...
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Fedo
one, since I semi-maintain it
> upstream already. I'd like to comaintainer it, but I totally can't
> find the right button in the UI ...
Email the main admin to add you.
...snip...
kevin
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Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> rpms/kde-plasma-ihatethecashew
This is a Plasma 4 package and completely useless under Plasma 5 or
6. (There is not even a "cashew" to remove in current Plasma 5.) I am
surprised this package even builds at all, we are probably shipping too much
of th
Hi all,
Today, 2023-11-18, we have removed inactive packagers
from the packager group.
This is in accordance with the FESCo policy on inactive packagers:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Policy_for_inactive_packagers/
If the removed user is 'main admin' for a package, this package
Hi all,
Today, 2023-11-18, we have removed inactive packagers
from the packager group.
This is in accordance with the FESCo policy on inactive packagers:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Policy_for_inactive_packagers/
If the removed user is 'main admin' for a package, this package
rypt/pull-request/9
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Planned Outage - pagure.io network switch updates - 2023-11-17 13:00 UTC
There will be an outage starting at 2023-11-17 13:00UTC,
which will last approximately 4 hours.
To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
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or run:
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Planned Outage - pagure.io network switch updates - 2023-11-17 13:00 UTC
There will be an outage starting at 2023-11-17 13:00UTC,
which will last approximately 4 hours.
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't provide
> it.
That makes sense, but the issue is the latter part, not the former.
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helps nobody.
True, but the issue is that FESCo sees the bug in the claim and not in the
failure to achieve it, which is where the real issue lies.
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; cannot comply with. (+6, 0, 0) (Son_Goku, 17:59:18)
So Fedora has completely discarded any notion of backwards compatibility.
Sad.
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t be used. Broken glass is just broken
glass, not "crystal". And the term only (euphemistically) mentions the
violence against things and neglects to mention the violence against people.
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Planned Outage - Server updates/Reboots - 2023-11-15 20:00 UTC
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or run:
date -d '2023-11-15
Planned Outage - Server updates/Reboots - 2023-11-15 20:00 UTC
There will be an outage starting at 2023-11-15 20:00 UTC,
which will last approximately 6 hours.
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t, it's just the web page thats misleading.
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Fedora Code of Con
.
Please let us know if there's any uses for these services we aren't
aware of before next wed.
https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11504 is a tracking ticket
for the osbs cluster retirement.
Thanks!
kevin
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Hey Jamie!
Welcome. :)
If you get a chance do drop by our matrix space and chime in with any
questions or comments.
kevin
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ct
I am not sure what happened there. ;( Some kind of race condition?
But that matches up exactly when the PR was created.
kevin
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an be done?
I also do not understand why the gating stuff that was recently added does
not complain about this.
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On Wed, Nov 01, 2023 at 11:05:33AM -0400, Christopher wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 7:50 PM Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> >
> > FWIW, from what I can recall, yum used to check all packages, but this
> > resulted in tons of people complaining because they did not want it to
yum/dnf/dnf5 urls for the
package(s) you want to install, it's not using a repo at all, it's
downloading those packages and treating them as local packages.
kevin
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in Fedora proper makes for a
better user experience than just enabling the Copr for whatever version of
MariaDB you want in the unlikely event the default is not good enough for
you. We also do not ship multiple versions of, e.g., LibreOffice.
Kevin Kofler
__
mariadb-10.5 && dnf
upgrade (or distro-sync, but since it would be an "upgrade" at RPM level,
distro-sync is not needed here), and to switch back to the default version,
dnf copr disable @mariadb-sig/mariadb-10.5 && dnf distro-sync (to
"downgrade" to the offic
release, no need for compat
packages. That assumes versions on the package(s) are such that users
can upgrade going from one release to the next.
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To u
to the Botan C++
> cryptography library.
Welcome Pavol!
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Fedora Code
ng
until right before the first RC is requested, but that doesn't really
pin it down any more, as that will happen when all known blockers have
been addressed, which could be anytime...
We could add a note to any RC testing announcements?
For that matter we could suggest a distro-sync with
Circling back here... I downgraded the hosts yesterday and they have
been all checking in reliably as far as I can see.
Are you still seeing any build issues?
kevin
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it makes much sense to force changes to the epel7/epel8
keys now just to check some compatibility box on fedora installs. ;)
See
https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11703
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On Wed, Oct 04, 2023 at 11:24:15PM +0200, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
> On úterý 3. října 2023 21:48:24 CEST Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 03, 2023 at 10:30:45AM +0200, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, in what shape is our "layered image" build syst
eeze I updated the virthosts those builders
are on. Sadly, somehow the newer kernels cause those weird network
hiccups. Builders stop checking in, or don't return when uploading as
well.
I moved one of them back to the previous kernel to confirm it was ok and
it has been. I am downgradin
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