Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 26.5.2018 02:18, Kevin Kofler wrote: The Chromium build scripts used during QtWebEngine builds are full of "#!/usr/bin/env python" shebangs. A lot have not been touched since 2012. Remove /usr/bin/python and QtWebEngine will no longer build. And than you can either fix this (which I realize

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

Brian C. Lane wrote: > I'm opposed to this change. I see no reason to complicate things because > some other distributions (Arch) have inadvisedly redirected > /usr/bin/python to python3. This whole mess violates the principle of > least surprise -- as a user of python what do you expect >

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 05/24/18 18:53, Randy Barlow wrote: On 05/24/2018 12:45 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: Could you fill us in a bit? The only thing I know about resultsdb is that there is a thing called resultsdb. I went to https://taskotron.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/results but I have no idea how to

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 03:56:18PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > However, for *package builds*, Recommends/Supplements are not > installed. So *package builds* which only BuildRequire python2 or > whatever would not get /usr/bin/python , and would thus fail. The > packager could always just add

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:26:30PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > "RB" == Randy Barlow writes: > > RB> > https://taskotron.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/results?testcases=dist.python-versions.python_usage > > This one seems on-point. rpm 4.14.1-9.fc28

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 05/24/2018 01:26 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Is it possible to filter only failures out of the results list? Yeah, you can slap =failed on the end: > https://taskotron.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/results?testcases=dist.python-versions.python_usage=failed

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

> "RB" == Randy Barlow writes: RB> https://taskotron.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/results?testcases=dist.python-versions.python_usage This one seems on-point. rpm 4.14.1-9.fc28 fails: https://taskotron.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/results/21327930 Is it

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 05/24/2018 12:45 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Could you fill us in a bit? The only thing I know about resultsdb is > that there is a thing called resultsdb. I went to > https://taskotron.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/results but I have no idea > how to find, say, all packages which call

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

> "RB" == Randy Barlow writes: RB> I don't disagree, but I will point out that it is possible to find RB> out which packages are using /usr/bin/python by looking at their RB> most recent test results in resultsdb. Could you fill us in a bit? The only thing I

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 05/23/2018 01:22 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > it is now easier to see what actually calls "/usr/bin/python" in > contravention of the packaging guidelines. I don't disagree, but I will point out that it is possible to find out which packages are using /usr/bin/python by looking at their

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 05/24/18 01:01, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 24.5.2018 00:56, Adam Williamson wrote: The thing you're missing - which the Change doesn't explicitly state, so it's understandable - is the effect of having the python2 package Recommend the package with /usr/bin/python in it. For *user* systems

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 05/24/18 02:21, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: On 23 May 2018 at 11:30, Brian C. Lane wrote: as a user of python what do you expect /usr/bin/pythong to do? You expect it to run the python2 interpreter. Careful with the generalization. I expect /usr/bin/python to launch python3 and I get surprised

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Thu, 2018-05-24 at 11:38 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 24.5.2018 11:27, Thomas Haller wrote: > > A sensible approach for a project to solve this problem is to write > > in > > a python2-and-3 compatible subset. But wbyen discouraging > > "#!/usr/bin/python" it's not generally possible to find

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 24.5.2018 11:27, Thomas Haller wrote: A sensible approach for a project to solve this problem is to write in a python2-and-3 compatible subset. But wbyen discouraging "#!/usr/bin/python" it's not generally possible to find a suitable interpreter. This is true for upstream projects. We are

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, 2018-05-23 at 08:30 -0700, Brian C. Lane wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:55:40PM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote: > > = Proposed System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate > > package = > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Move_usr_bin_python_into_sep > > arate_package > >

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 24.5.2018 04:30, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Adam Williamson said: The packager could always just add BuildRequires python-unversioned-command to "fix" the problem, which is probably the fix we don't want them to do, but at least then we have a handy way

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

Once upon a time, Adam Williamson said: > The > packager could always just add BuildRequires python-unversioned-command > to "fix" the problem, which is probably the fix we don't want them to > do, but at least then we have a handy way to identify recalcitrant >

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 23 May 2018 at 11:30, Brian C. Lane wrote: > as a user of python what do you expect > /usr/bin/pythong to do? You expect it to run the python2 interpreter. Careful with the generalization. I expect /usr/bin/python to launch python3 and I get surprised with each Fedora release why it still

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 24.5.2018 00:56, Adam Williamson wrote: The thing you're missing - which the Change doesn't explicitly state, so it's understandable - is the effect of having the python2 package Recommend the package with /usr/bin/python in it. For *user* systems that will mean that package always gets

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > The thing you're missing - which the Change doesn't explicitly state, > so it's understandable - is the effect of having the python2 package > Recommend the package with /usr/bin/python in it. > Okay, that

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, 2018-05-23 at 18:45 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > How exactly is this change breaking users' software? We certainly want to > > avoid that. > > > > If anything installed from outside our repos calls

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote: > How exactly is this change breaking users' software? We certainly want to > avoid that. > If anything installed from outside our repos calls `/usr/bin/python`, we break it. Unless we install the new python symlink

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 24.5.2018 00:13, Ben Cotton wrote: On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:05 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote: This change indeed is not very beneficial to user installs. Except maybe for highly experienced users who would like to ship their own /usr/bin/python (except I don't think that's a

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 24.5.2018 00:12, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: So from the change request.. I thought it was for the users. ''' The upstream recommendation (PEP 394), which we try to follow in Fedora, is that users -- not distros, and not sysadmins -- should be in control of the python command. ''' To me

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:05 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote: > This change indeed is not very beneficial to user installs. Except maybe for > highly experienced users who would like to ship their own /usr/bin/python > (except I don't think that's a good idea anyway). > > The benefit

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 23 May 2018 at 18:05, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 23.5.2018 20:36, Ben Cotton wrote: >> >> And so if the python symlink is a separate package that always gets >> installed alongside python2, then is there really any benefit to this >> change? > > > This change indeed is not

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 23.5.2018 17:30, Brian C. Lane wrote: I think the rules can be distilled down to this: * New python2 programs use /usr/bin/python2 * New python3 programs use /usr/bin/python3 * Leave /usr/bin/python pointing to /usr/bin/python2 for legacy programs What we actually try to

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On 23.5.2018 20:36, Ben Cotton wrote: And so if the python symlink is a separate package that always gets installed alongside python2, then is there really any benefit to this change? This change indeed is not very beneficial to user installs. Except maybe for highly experienced users who

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

> "CD" == Christian Dersch writes: CD> For me this change is just an unnecessary additional change which CD> will probably annoy users. I'm struggling to see how anyone but packagers (whose packages already don't meet the requirements against not directly using

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

I completely agree here. /usr/bin/python should go when python2 itself will be removed from Fedora. For me this change is just an unnecessary additional change which will probably annoy users. And if the solution to get /usr/bin/python back is to install that additional package: 95% (I guess) of

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

I don't have any objection to moving `/usr/bin/python` into a separate package, but only if it's installed every time python2 is installed. I'm less concerned about breaking Fedora packages, because we have ways of checking and fixing those (do your package fail to build? Better fix it!) My

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

> "SB" == Sérgio Basto writes: SB> Maybe better is remove /usr/bin/python , it will force people fix SB> the path , instead of a silent move . That's just a more extreme version of what is being proposed here. The proposal moves the /usr/bin/python symlink to a separate

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, 2018-05-23 at 08:30 -0700, Brian C. Lane wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:55:40PM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote: > > = Proposed System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate > > package = > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Move_usr_bin_python_into_sep > > arate_package > >

Re: F29 System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:55:40PM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote: > = Proposed System Wide Change: Move /usr/bin/python into a separate package = > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Move_usr_bin_python_into_separate_package > > === Motivation === > > The meaning of the python command is ambiguous: