Re: MATE Desktop support?

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Pavel Solovev  said:
> MATE follows the even stable / odd unstable versioning system. 1.27 is an 
> under development,pre-release.

Ahh, my mistake then!  Sorry about that.  I guess I run into that type
of versioning less these days, so it didn't cross my mind.

Now if I can just figure out my particular issues with MATE... :)
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Re: MATE Desktop support?

[Pavel Solovev]

MATE follows the even stable / odd unstable versioning system. 1.27 is an under 
development,pre-release.
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[EPEL-devel] Re: Mate desktop environment update

[Andrew C Aitchison]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, Greg Bailey wrote:

I think I tried building Mate 1.22 on CentOS 7 but ran into issues where it 
needed a newer GCC than CentOS 7 provides, and I wasn't up for the complexity 
challenge of building it using a different toolchain...  :)


CentOS 7 has the softwarecollections repo with the devtoolset packages, eg
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/7/sclo/x86_64/rh/Packages/d/devtoolset-7-gcc-7.3.1-5.16.el7.x86_64.rpm
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/7/sclo/x86_64/rh/Packages/d/devtoolset-7-gcc-c++-7.3.1-5.16.el7.x86_64.rpm

I haven't tried on SL7/CentOS7/RHEL7 but on SL6, the devtoolset packages 
make using a newer GCC trivial with the "scl" command.


I do admit that I prefer the environment modules I have written as
an alternative to scl (they change the environment of the existing shell 
rather than putting me in a new shell with the new compilers).


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[EPEL-devel] Re: Mate desktop environment update

[Greg Bailey]

On 6/5/20 10:35 AM, H wrote:

On June 5, 2020 11:21:07 AM EDT, Greg Bailey  wrote:

On 6/5/20 2:21 AM, Menanteau wrote:

Hi there,

is there a plan to update Mate in EPEL ?

There was a demand to update to Mate 1.8 years ago but I didn't see
any answer.  Mate 1.24 is currently available.

Thanks

I run Mate on both CentOS 7 and CentOS 8.

For CentOS 7, I run Mate 1.20 using RPMs I built myself that are in
turn
derived from the sources in Fedora.  I've posted previously about this
build and how others could use it if they want [1].

For CentOS 8, I run Mate 1.22 using the stenstorp copr repo [2].

Both builds of Mate have worked flawlessly.  I'd love to see the EPEL
build of Mate upgraded for CentOS 7, and introduced for CentOS 8.  I'm
a
Fedora packager and have considered assisting with this, but I believe
the Fedora maintainer is not interested in EPEL builds of this, and I
don't have experience with managing larger groups of packages like
Mate.

-Greg

[1] https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2019-October/173799.html
[2]  https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/stenstorp/MATE/


Greg,

I should really try to build it myself since I have a problem with HiDPI 
monitors not properly supported in the available build. I need to review your 
notes carefully since I have no experience building anything complex - yet...


By "the available build" are you referring to the current 1.16 version 
in EPEL 7 ?  You should be able to try my 1.20 build by adding a yum repo.




Have you also tried to build the most recent version available?


I think I tried building Mate 1.22 on CentOS 7 but ran into issues where 
it needed a newer GCC than CentOS 7 provides, and I wasn't up for the 
complexity challenge of building it using a different toolchain...  :)


-Greg
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[EPEL-devel] Re: Mate desktop environment update

[H]

On June 5, 2020 11:21:07 AM EDT, Greg Bailey  wrote:
>On 6/5/20 2:21 AM, Menanteau wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> is there a plan to update Mate in EPEL ?
>>
>> There was a demand to update to Mate 1.8 years ago but I didn't see 
>> any answer.  Mate 1.24 is currently available.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>I run Mate on both CentOS 7 and CentOS 8.
>
>For CentOS 7, I run Mate 1.20 using RPMs I built myself that are in
>turn 
>derived from the sources in Fedora.  I've posted previously about this 
>build and how others could use it if they want [1].
>
>For CentOS 8, I run Mate 1.22 using the stenstorp copr repo [2].
>
>Both builds of Mate have worked flawlessly.  I'd love to see the EPEL 
>build of Mate upgraded for CentOS 7, and introduced for CentOS 8.  I'm
>a 
>Fedora packager and have considered assisting with this, but I believe 
>the Fedora maintainer is not interested in EPEL builds of this, and I 
>don't have experience with managing larger groups of packages like
>Mate.
>
>-Greg
>
>[1] https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2019-October/173799.html
>[2]  https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/stenstorp/MATE/
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Greg,

I should really try to build it myself since I have a problem with HiDPI 
monitors not properly supported in the available build. I need to review your 
notes carefully since I have no experience building anything complex - yet...

Have you also tried to build the most recent version available?

I do wish it was maintained in EPEL.
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[EPEL-devel] Re: Mate desktop environment update

[Greg Bailey]

On 6/5/20 2:21 AM, Menanteau wrote:

Hi there,

is there a plan to update Mate in EPEL ?

There was a demand to update to Mate 1.8 years ago but I didn't see 
any answer.  Mate 1.24 is currently available.


Thanks


I run Mate on both CentOS 7 and CentOS 8.

For CentOS 7, I run Mate 1.20 using RPMs I built myself that are in turn 
derived from the sources in Fedora.  I've posted previously about this 
build and how others could use it if they want [1].


For CentOS 8, I run Mate 1.22 using the stenstorp copr repo [2].

Both builds of Mate have worked flawlessly.  I'd love to see the EPEL 
build of Mate upgraded for CentOS 7, and introduced for CentOS 8.  I'm a 
Fedora packager and have considered assisting with this, but I believe 
the Fedora maintainer is not interested in EPEL builds of this, and I 
don't have experience with managing larger groups of packages like Mate.


-Greg

[1] https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2019-October/173799.html
[2]  https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/stenstorp/MATE/
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[EPEL-devel] Re: Mate desktop environment update

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 05:21, Menanteau  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> is there a plan to update Mate in EPEL ?
>
>
EPEL is not a distribution and does not have 'plans' to produce things for
certain releases. Nobody is paid to work on EPEL versus paid to work on
Fedora so the packages here are those that volunteers have the time and
energy to do. Thus EPEL is more of a Stone Soup collection of packages
branched from Fedora. I believe we are currently looking for new
maintainers of the MATE and Cinnamon stacks as the people who were doing
various parts have had other things come up in the last year for a good
portion of their time (I may be confusing this with some other desktops
however).


> There was a demand to update to Mate 1.8 years ago but I didn't see any
> answer.  Mate 1.24 is currently available.
>
> Thanks
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[EPEL-devel] Re: Mate desktop environment update

[Troy Dawson]

If you (or others) haven't already done so, a bugzilla requesting an
update might be best.
Many times packagers aren't on the epel-devel mailing list, and/or
have it filtered.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 2:22 AM Menanteau  wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> is there a plan to update Mate in EPEL ?
>
> There was a demand to update to Mate 1.8 years ago but I didn't see any
> answer.  Mate 1.24 is currently available.
>
> Thanks
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[EPEL-devel] Re: MATE Desktop in EPEL repository

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 17 May 2017 at 04:32, Arnold Fabian1  wrote:

> Dear Team
>
> I would have a question regarding EPEL repository for RHEL 7.x
> I can see, that the MATE Desktop 1.18 released in 2017-03-13
> but in the EPEL repository, it is not available yet, only the 1.16:
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/7/x86_64/m/
>
>
I would open a ticket in bugzilla or add your information to an existing
bug for the package maintainer to see if there is a reason who owns the
packages has not updated. It could be it requires a GTK that EL-7 does not
ship or that they are looking for feedback in a copr that no one is giving.

The package is owned by Wolfgang Ulbrich, email: fed...@raveit.de


> Also I would have another question:
> F3 was available in the Rhel6-EPEL repository
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/6/x86_64/
> But the newest version is not available for us in the Rhel7-EPEL repository
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/7/x86_64/f/
>

Same with this. Eric Smith, email: space...@gmail.com


>
>
> About F3, the newest version is 6.0
> http://oss.digirati.com.br/f3/
>
>
> Also is there any way to request any other packages via this email address?
>
>
> *Arnold Fabian*
> ABN AMRO, Cembra, Lufthansa - Production Control
> Certified IT Specialist
> [image: IBM_CIC_SFV]
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>
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> Szekesfehervar, 8000
> Hungary
>
> IBM Data Storage Systems Információtechnológiai Korlátolt Felelősségű
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> 2600 Vác, Deákvári fasor 16-18.
> Cg.13-09-107530
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>
>
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>


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[EPEL-devel] Re: MATE Desktop in EPEL repository

[Chuck Anderson]

You can open bugs against the specific packages in bugzilla.redhat.com
requesting they be updated, but note that having the newest/latest
packages in EPEL is secondary to maintaining stability.  See:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL_incompatible_upgrades_policy
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL_Updates_Policy
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy

For requesting new EPEL packages:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_maintainers_wishlist
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Getting_a_Fedora_package_in_EPEL

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:32:22AM +0200, Arnold Fabian1 wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Team
> 
> I would have a question regarding EPEL repository for RHEL 7.x
> I can see, that the MATE Desktop 1.18 released in 2017-03-13
> but in the EPEL repository, it is not available yet, only the 1.16:
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/7/x86_64/m/
> 
> 
> Also I would have another question:
> F3 was available in the Rhel6-EPEL repository
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/6/x86_64/
> But the newest version is not available for us in the Rhel7-EPEL repository
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/7/x86_64/f/
> 
> About F3, the newest version is 6.0
> http://oss.digirati.com.br/f3/
> 
> 
> Also is there any way to request any other packages via this email address?
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Re: mate-desktop 1.8

[Dan Mashal]

On Mar 14, 2014 7:52 AM, Brian Millett bmill...@gmail.com wrote:

 What is the prospect of getting mate 1.8 for fedora 20?

Prospect is good.

We're QAing on Rawhide at the moment.

Dan

Sent from my Google Nexus 5
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Re: mate-desktop 1.8

[Brian Millett]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:09:42 -0700
Dan Mashal dan.mas...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mar 14, 2014 7:52 AM, Brian Millett bmill...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  What is the prospect of getting mate 1.8 for fedora 20?
 
 Prospect is good.
 
 We're QAing on Rawhide at the moment.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my Google Nexus 5

I'm quivering with anticipation!

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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Adam Williamson]

On 2012-08-27 22:08, Michael Scherer wrote:

Le lundi 27 août 2012 à 17:48 -0700, Adam Williamson a écrit :

On 2012-08-24 13:49, Rave it wrote:
 Rex Dieter wrote:

 I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had 
trouble

 communicating and working together.

 I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, 
and

 in
 your future endeavors.

 -- rex

 No mercy, no thanks.

 Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and
 racist
 remarks from Dan Marchal?

 'Portuguese n00b'
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3

That thread contains no instance of Dan calling you a Portuguese 
n00b.
It contains only an instance of you accusing Dan of having called 
you a

Portuguese n00b, 'if [you] recall correctly'.

(I draw no conclusions from this, I only state a fact.)


Just stating facts as well, that's slightly wrong.
Wolfgang aka raveit use the login niceandgently on github.


Ah, thanks. It seemed from the context that rave it was claiming to be 
the person in the thread, so I foolishly didn't check that was actually 
the case. Still, if he wasn't involved in that thread at all, I'm not 
sure why he'd quote it in support of an assertion that someone insulted 
him...



The one who accuse Dan mashal of calling him portuguese noob is
ketheriel, aka Nelson Marques, on 23-07-2012.

He also reuse the expression on
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=840149#c5 on 14-07-2012

And he asked to have his account 1 month ago :
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3399 , on
25-07-2012.

The same day, he also posted that about the issue :

https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-desktop/issues/18#issuecomment-7251595
So he didn't seemed to have got over it (yet) at this moment.


I hadn't looked at any other posts, just the one that was directly 
cited in the thread. Good job on the additional data.


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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Matthias Runge]

On 28/08/12 07:08, Michael Scherer wrote:

 
 Just stating facts as well, that's slightly wrong.
 Wolfgang aka raveit use the login niceandgently on github.
 
 The one who accuse Dan mashal of calling him portuguese noob is
 ketheriel, aka Nelson Marques, on 23-07-2012.
 
 He also reuse the expression on
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=840149#c5 on 14-07-2012
 
 And he asked to have his account 1 month ago :
 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3399 , on
 25-07-2012.
 
 The same day, he also posted that about the issue :
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-desktop/issues/18#issuecomment-7251595
 So he didn't seemed to have got over it (yet) at this moment.
 
That's a good conclusion on this topic.

For enhancement:
Nelson Marques has been fedora contributor for about 2 weeks (and I have
been his sponsor). He felt assaulted and left frustrated, orphaning all
his packages, stopping further contributions.

Sadly, I have been on vacation then, so I had no chance to assist him in
any way.

I see an analogy between this case and Wolfgang aka raveit. Both of them
didn't want to take this into light to sort these issues out.

Since, Dan is the feature owner of
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MATE-Desktop

I think, he should take care not to scare every reviewer and contributor
away; many people left the reviews unfinished an unassigned them from
the tickets.
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Re: Re: Mate-Desktop

[Stefano Karapetsas]

Rex Dieter wrote:

I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
communicating and working together.

I don't accept it.  Dan reacting poorly is a given, and something he 
(and I

with him) are working on.

I personally don't feel it helps taking your greivances public, as 
now Dan's
perception of you (and now potentially others) will be colored as 
hostile.


Hi,
I'm one of MATE Desktop upstream developers. I'm sorry for my intrusion 
here, but I feel the need to write my opinion in this thread. We already 
worked with a lot of distros maintainers and always worked happily with 
them. We got problems with Dan only. He already insulted a lot of 
developers, maintainers and reviewers. He dont know how to work with 
other people, and specifically with free and open source projects 
upstream authors. If he has issues, he demands a solution from upstream 
devs without trying to help in any way, and if he dont receive answers, 
he start to insult.
I'm really worried if he can maintain MATE desktop packages with his 
way to cooperate with other people and upstream maintainers.


Cheers,
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Re: Re: Mate-Desktop: please moderate

[Rex Dieter]

Stefano Karapetsas wrote:

 Rex Dieter wrote:

 I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
 communicating and working together.

 I don't accept it.  Dan reacting poorly is a given, and something he
 (and I
 with him) are working on.

 I personally don't feel it helps taking your greivances public, as
 now Dan's
 perception of you (and now potentially others) will be colored as
 hostile.
 
 Hi,
 I'm one of MATE Desktop upstream developers. I'm sorry for my intrusion
 here, but I feel the need to write my opinion in this thread. We already
 worked with a lot of distros maintainers and always worked happily with
 them. We got problems with Dan only. He already insulted a lot of
 developers, maintainers and reviewers. He dont know how to work with
 other people, and specifically with free and open source projects
 upstream authors. If he has issues, he demands a solution from upstream
 devs without trying to help in any way, and if he dont receive answers,
 he start to insult.
 I'm really worried if he can maintain MATE desktop packages with his
 way to cooperate with other people and upstream maintainers.

Ok, thanks for your input, really.

However, I'm of the opinion firmly now that this has gone on long enough to 
be harmful and non-constructive for everyone involved.  Can this thread be 
moderated please?

I humbly ask anyone who wishes to take this further to contact the community 
working group
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group#Contact
(or me, and I'd be happy to do it for you).
being mindful of:
http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

-- rex


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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Adam Williamson]

On 2012-08-24 13:49, Rave it wrote:

Rex Dieter wrote:

I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
communicating and working together.

I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and 
in

your future endeavors.

-- rex

No mercy, no thanks.

Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and 
racist

remarks from Dan Marchal?

'Portuguese n00b'
https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3


That thread contains no instance of Dan calling you a Portuguese n00b. 
It contains only an instance of you accusing Dan of having called you a 
Portuguese n00b, 'if [you] recall correctly'.


(I draw no conclusions from this, I only state a fact.)
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Michael Scherer]

Le lundi 27 août 2012 à 17:48 -0700, Adam Williamson a écrit :
 On 2012-08-24 13:49, Rave it wrote:
  Rex Dieter wrote:
 
  I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
  communicating and working together.
 
  I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and 
  in
  your future endeavors.
 
  -- rex
 
  No mercy, no thanks.
 
  Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and 
  racist
  remarks from Dan Marchal?
 
  'Portuguese n00b'
  https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3
 
 That thread contains no instance of Dan calling you a Portuguese n00b. 
 It contains only an instance of you accusing Dan of having called you a 
 Portuguese n00b, 'if [you] recall correctly'.
 
 (I draw no conclusions from this, I only state a fact.)

Just stating facts as well, that's slightly wrong.
Wolfgang aka raveit use the login niceandgently on github.

The one who accuse Dan mashal of calling him portuguese noob is
ketheriel, aka Nelson Marques, on 23-07-2012.

He also reuse the expression on
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=840149#c5 on 14-07-2012

And he asked to have his account 1 month ago :
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3399 , on
25-07-2012.

The same day, he also posted that about the issue :
https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-desktop/issues/18#issuecomment-7251595
So he didn't seemed to have got over it (yet) at this moment.

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Re: Subject: Re: Mate-Desktop

[tim.laurid...@gmail.com]

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Rave it chat-to...@raveit.de wrote:

 
  Rex Dieter wrote:
 
  I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
  communicating and working together.
 
  I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in
  your future endeavors.
 
  -- rex
 
 No mercy, no thanks.

 Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and racist
 remarks from Dan Marchal?

 'Portuguese n00b'
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3
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I have seen a lot in unfriendly talk on my time as a fedora packager, but
this really takes the Oscar.
It is a disgrace for the Fedora project when a Fedora packager behaves in
this way against an upstream project.

ketheriel : We would rather like patches ;)

dmashal : So write one. That's your job. Not mine. Sorry.Dan

ketheriel Nice attitude dude. If I recall correctly you called me a
'Portuguese n00b' and mocked on my face the other day... So I guess I'm
have all the motivations to fix those issues :)

Tim
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Rave it]

Rex Dieter wrote:
 I don't accept it.  Dan reacting poorly is a given, and something he
 (and I with him) are working on.

 I personally don't feel it helps taking your greivances public, as now
 Dan's perception of you (and now potentially others) will be colored
 as
 hostile.
Sorry, for me is conceal facts not a good choice.
If someone other act like Dan Mashal, i would also be happy to get
information here in devel list.

 so, I have a question for you: do you have any wish or intention of 
 remaining in the fedora community?  if so, this would be the point to
 engage the community working group for guidance, advice, and
 mediation.  (my fault for being too dense for not suggesting it
 earlier, sorry).

 -- rex

No need for mediation because i will stay in in fedora community,
but working at Mate-Desktop is impossible for me until Dan Mashal to
refrain from taking on this project to work.

I know also from other packagers who wanted to work in the
Mate-Desktop project, but they think like me.

Wolfgang Ulbrich
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Brendan Jones]

On 08/23/2012 04:53 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:

Rave it wrote:


For your information.
I stoped working for the Mate-Desktop project for f18 because


I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
communicating and working together.

I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in your
future endeavors.

-- rex


I agree, please do not stop contributing because of one foul-mouthed 
asshole.


The good ones outnumber him grossly!
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Rave it]

Rex Dieter wrote:

I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble 
communicating and working together.

I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in
your future endeavors.

-- rex

No mercy, no thanks.

Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and racist
remarks from Dan Marchal?

'Portuguese n00b' 
https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3






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Re: Subject: Re: Mate-Desktop

[Rave it]

 
 Rex Dieter wrote:
 
 I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble 
 communicating and working together.
 
 I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in
 your future endeavors.
 
 -- rex
 
No mercy, no thanks.
 
Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and racist
remarks from Dan Marchal?
 
'Portuguese n00b' 
https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Rave it]

Rex Dieter wrote:

I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble 
communicating and working together.

I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in
your future endeavors.

-- rex

No mercy, no thanks.

Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and racist
remarks from Dan Marchal?

'Portuguese n00b' 
https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3

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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Rex Dieter]

Rave it wrote:

 Rex Dieter wrote:
 
 I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble
 communicating and working together.
 
 I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in
 your future endeavors.

 No mercy, no thanks.
 
 Why do you Mr. Rex Dieter as sponsor accept rude speaking,  and racist
 remarks from Dan Marchal?
 'Portuguese n00b'
 https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3

I don't accept it.  Dan reacting poorly is a given, and something he (and I 
with him) are working on.

I personally don't feel it helps taking your greivances public, as now Dan's 
perception of you (and now potentially others) will be colored as hostile.

so, I have a question for you: do you have any wish or intention of 
remaining in the fedora community?  if so, this would be the point to engage 
the community working group for guidance, advice, and mediation.  (my fault 
for being too dense for not suggesting it earlier, sorry).

-- rex

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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Rex Dieter]

Rave it wrote:

 For your information.
 I stoped working for the Mate-Desktop project for f18 because

I can understand your frustration, and that you and Dan had trouble 
communicating and working together.

I do wish to thank you for the positive contributions you made, and in your 
future endeavors.

-- rex


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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Thomas Spura]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III ti...@math.uh.edu wrote:
 Ri == Rave it chat-to...@raveit.de writes:

 Ri For your information. I stoped working for the Mate-Desktop project
 Ri for f18 because for me it is imposssible to to work together with
 Ri Dan Mashal. One of the reason for my decision is this last talk with
 Ri Dan Mashal today.

 I've watched a bunch of this go on and I agree that this person has
 overstepped the bounds of reasonable behavior on more than one
 occasion.

I completely agree.

 I just wanted to ask that you not let the actions of one
 person color the entire community.

When the community cannot limit the actions/flames/insults of one
person, this WILL fall back to the entire community.
(At least for people, who will be using mate on Fedora).

 I'm sure that a reasonable solution
 can be worked out in time.

As people prefer to leave the project instead of opening a ticket on
fesco, insults by Dan nothing will change.
By the way, Wolfgang is not the first one, who steps back because of
insults of Dan, just the first one who posts here about it as he wants
to continue on packages where Dan has no interests in. For proof, see
the communication above and [1].

When someone insults people, so that they step back or completely
leave the project, they should be kicked out. But as I'm not a mate
user/maintainer or Dan's sponsor, I'm not directly affected by that,
so we'll need to wait till someone is concerned enough about it...

Greetings,
Tom

[1] https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-doc-utils/issues/3#issuecomment-7179964
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Brendan Jones]

On 08/21/2012 11:50 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:

As a reminder, everyone working within the Fedora project is expected to
abide by the code of conduct (http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct).
If there's an interpersonal conflict that can't be resolved by the
individuals or the specific subset of the project involved, please feel
free to raise it with the Community Working Group at
c...@lists.fedoraproject.org, or cwg-priv...@lists.fedoraproject.org if
you'd prefer the discussion to be private.

I understand Dan's fairly new to Fedora - perhaps his sponsor should 
have a word with him.


Brendan
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Michael Cronenworth]

Brendan Jones wrote:
 I understand Dan's fairly new to Fedora - perhaps his sponsor should
 have a word with him.

Would it be enough to CC Rex? Or should we open a ticket on a trac of
one of the Fedora committees?
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

 Ri == Rave it chat-to...@raveit.de writes:

Ri For your information. I stoped working for the Mate-Desktop project
Ri for f18 because for me it is imposssible to to work together with
Ri Dan Mashal. One of the reason for my decision is this last talk with
Ri Dan Mashal today. 

I've watched a bunch of this go on and I agree that this person has
overstepped the bounds of reasonable behavior on more than one
occasion.  I just wanted to ask that you not let the actions of one
person color the entire community.  I'm sure that a reasonable solution
can be worked out in time.

 - J
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Re: Mate-Desktop

[Matthew Garrett]

As a reminder, everyone working within the Fedora project is expected to 
abide by the code of conduct (http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct). 
If there's an interpersonal conflict that can't be resolved by the 
individuals or the specific subset of the project involved, please feel 
free to raise it with the Community Working Group at 
c...@lists.fedoraproject.org, or cwg-priv...@lists.fedoraproject.org if 
you'd prefer the discussion to be private.

-- 
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Eric Smith]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

[Reviving an old thread ...]

Indeed this seems to be not just vapourware:

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?p=119


I don't buy the arguments that MATE is vapourware, but building a new 
Gnome-2-like desktop on the Gnome 3 underpinnings obviously is easier 
and in the long term better than a complete fork of Gnome 2.


I've been running Cinnamon 1.2 on F16 x86_64 for a few days.  It seems 
to work pretty well.  It isn't able (yet?) to fix all of the things I 
dislike about Gnome 3, but it does fix a lot of them, and it is in most 
regards more similar to the Gnome 2 desktop than are Xfce or LXDE.


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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:24:08PM +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 12:50 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
  On 12/09/2011 03:50 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
  I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
  desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
  GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
  remaining MATE packages.
 
  Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official
  feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?
 
  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=765666
  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=765667
 
 
  Is it not better to just create extension and an theme on spin with
  gnome3 that bring back the functionality you seek?
 
 That's pretty much was Mint seems to be doing and I agree that this is 
 probably a much more viable approach:
 
 http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/2011/11/30/linux-mint-12/

[Reviving an old thread ...]

Indeed this seems to be not just vapourware:

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?p=119

Rich.

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Zoltan Boszormenyi]

2011-12-10 16:36 keltezéssel, Rahul Sundaram írta:
 On 12/10/2011 03:30 PM, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote:
 u
 Not so fast, there was a point in time when
 the whole Linux development community
 was Linus Torvalds. Live and let live.
 You would have a better point there if MATE was a new desktop
 environment trying to grow a community.  GNOME 2.x is a complex codebase
 with a lot of legacy.  Maintaining it as a single person is impossible.
  What has been accomplished is that someone renamed the 2.x gnome* to
 mate* but the effort to move it forward is a lot more involved than
 that.  There is atleast security fixes to take care of and compatibility
 issues to consider.  A badly maintained desktop environment would result
 in false hope and reflect poorly on the distribution as well.

 A Fedora maintainer could still push these components through and take
 care of them but they will be partially performing the role of upstream.
  If someone is motivated enough to do it, then by all means, live and
 let live.

 Rahul

I think his (the developer/maintainer of MATE) whole point is about
scratching a personal itch. Just like in all interesting OSS projects.

E.g. I recently contributed two Mingw32-w64 packages out of
personal interest. It's not for bragging, it's not the same level as
decyphering and understanding the whole GNOME 2 codebase.

If he can gather a few more developers and a lot of users (who
even on this list threatened upstream GNOME developers with
pitchforks), the MATE project might even succeed. We just need
to be patient towards the project and watch the outcome.

There are quite a few other projects that become successful
and I am not sure their task has smaller complexity with reverse
engineering, like ScummVM. At least MATE has the advantage of
using an open source codebase.

BTW, as for my relation to GNOME 3, at first I was scared by
the reviews that compared it to GNOME 2. But I needed the
goodies (newer compiler and other stuff for development) of
Fedora 15 so I jumped into the deep water. I was surprised
how easily I adapted to it. Old dog can learn new tricks, too.
I am 39. :-)

Best regards,
Zoltán Böszörményi

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Zoltan Boszormenyi]

2011-12-09 11:34 keltezéssel, Kevin Kofler írta:
 and there is a development community.
 LOL, a community called Timothy Pearson…

 Don't make me laugh.

 Kevin Kofler

Not so fast, there was a point in time when
the whole Linux development community
was Linus Torvalds. Live and let live.

Best regards,
Zoltán Böszörményi

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Ralf Ertzinger]

Hi.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:00:55 +0100, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote

 Not so fast, there was a point in time when
 the whole Linux development community
 was Linus Torvalds. Live and let live.

Yes, there was. But it was a) rather short, and b) did not have
a codebase even remotely comparable to the size of the gnome2 stack.
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 12/10/2011 03:30 PM, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote:
u
 Not so fast, there was a point in time when
 the whole Linux development community
 was Linus Torvalds. Live and let live.

You would have a better point there if MATE was a new desktop
environment trying to grow a community.  GNOME 2.x is a complex codebase
with a lot of legacy.  Maintaining it as a single person is impossible.
 What has been accomplished is that someone renamed the 2.x gnome* to
mate* but the effort to move it forward is a lot more involved than
that.  There is atleast security fixes to take care of and compatibility
issues to consider.  A badly maintained desktop environment would result
in false hope and reflect poorly on the distribution as well.

A Fedora maintainer could still push these components through and take
care of them but they will be partially performing the role of upstream.
 If someone is motivated enough to do it, then by all means, live and
let live.

Rahul
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Donnerstag, den 08.12.2011, 19:50 -0800 schrieb Eric Smith:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE 
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of 
 GNOME 2.  

MATE is just replacing gnome with mate everywhere, whether or not it
was necessary.  We'd need to re-evaluate this on a distro level and
build against the gnome-* packages where possible, otherwise we
duplicating system libraries.  This is a no-go and forbidden by
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines#Duplication_of_system_libraries

This really worries me because I don't think that MATE well maintained
and will be able to deal with security issues or bugfixes in a timely
manner.

 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official 
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?

Although I am no friend of GNOME 3, I don't think MATE should become an
official feature: Advertising it as a feature looks backwards and we
currently don't know where MATE is going.  I'm not even sure it will
still be alive by F18.

Regards,
Christoph


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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Michał Piotrowski]

Hi,

What do you think about Trinity Desktop? I liked KDE3. Is there a
chance to include this DE in Fedora? Unlike the MATE, TD is well
maintained and there is a development community.

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Frank Murphy]

On 09/12/11 07:03, Eric Smith wrote:

 I tried switching to Xfce, and found it to be a lot better than Gnome 3,
 but it was still missing a lot of things I'm accustomed to in Gnome 2.

 I'm not trying to start another advocacy thread.  I'm just trying to
 package up an alternative for people like me who liked Gnome 2 better.

 Eric


Why not put the energy into,
getting what you need into Xfce\LXDE\?.
Rather than clutch at a shooting star.


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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Kevin Kofler]

Michał Piotrowski wrote:
 What do you think about Trinity Desktop? I liked KDE3. Is there a
 chance to include this DE in Fedora?

Please NO! We worked hard on making kdelibs3 apps work well in KDE Plasma 4
sessions. Trying to support Trinity sessions too is going to make a big
mess. Another big problem is that current Trinity isn't even
binary-compatible with KDE 3.5 anymore, which makes its kdelibs not suitable
to run existing KDE 3 binaries, even though (last I checked) they didn't
bump the sonames. (I think renaming all libraries like MATE is doing is
actually not that bad an idea if you have no clue about binary compatibility
and are going to horribly break it.)

 Unlike the MATE, TD is well maintained

Hahaha, LOL, good one!

http://vizzzion.org/blog/2010/05/trinity-and-the-challenges-of-continuing-kde-3/
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2011/11/the-grass-has-always-been-greener-on-the-other-side-of-the-fence/

(The comments in the latter also discuss the binary compatibility issues.)

 and there is a development community.

LOL, a community called Timothy Pearson…

Don't make me laugh.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 12/09/2011 04:12 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 09:20 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
 GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
 remaining MATE packages.

 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?
 Sure but is MATE actively developed and does it have more than one
 developer?  I am worried about sustainability.

How can you be worried about maintainability given that we already have 
unmaintained and poorly maintained packages in the distribution?

JBG

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 12/09/2011 03:50 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
 GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
 remaining MATE packages.

 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=765666
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=765667


Is it not better to just create extension and an theme on spin with 
gnome3 that bring back the functionality you seek?

JBG
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 12/09/2011 05:17 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 04:12 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 09:20 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
 GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
 remaining MATE packages.

 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?
 Sure but is MATE actively developed and does it have more than one
 developer?  I am worried about sustainability.
 
 How can you be worried about maintainability given that we already have 
 unmaintained and poorly maintained packages in the distribution?

When you have problems, the solution is to fix it.  Not add more.

Rahul
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 12/09/2011 11:58 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
 one
   developer?  I am worried about sustainability.
   
   How can you be worried about maintainability given that we already have
   unmaintained and poorly maintained packages in the distribution?
 When you have problems, the solution is to fix it.  Not add more.

Agreed but given that we already ship unmaintained either upstream or 
within the distribution components then I fail to understand why adding 
couple of more to the already existing pile is going to make any 
difference it's not like the current situation would be going from bad 
to worse since we already are at worse from my pov...

My personally view on his proposal is that he should rather be spending 
his time and energy creating the required extension that bring the 
functionality he seeks from Gnome2 to Gnome3 and an theme to go along 
with it if he also wants the old look and feel then create a spin with 
that rather then being doing it this way.

If he's willing to do the necessary legwork to make this work I dont see 
why he cant.

JBG
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Dennis Jacobfeuerborn]

On 12/09/2011 12:50 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 03:50 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
 GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
 remaining MATE packages.

 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=765666
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=765667


 Is it not better to just create extension and an theme on spin with
 gnome3 that bring back the functionality you seek?

That's pretty much was Mint seems to be doing and I agree that this is 
probably a much more viable approach:

http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/2011/11/30/linux-mint-12/

Regards,
   Dennis
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 12/09/2011 05:42 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 11:58 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
 one
   developer?  I am worried about sustainability.
 How can you be worried about maintainability given that we
 already have
   unmaintained and poorly maintained packages in the distribution?
 When you have problems, the solution is to fix it.  Not add more.
 
 Agreed but given that we already ship unmaintained either upstream or
 within the distribution components then I fail to understand why adding
 couple of more to the already existing pile is going to make any
 difference it's not like the current situation would be going from bad
 to worse since we already are at worse from my pov...

It is not useful to generalize. There are lots of software components
which aren't actively maintained but are useful to have in the
distribution and all distributions have them however a desktop
environment is a lot of work to maintain (as seen for instance in
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1901) and if upstream is not active, then
any potential needs to be aware of this before volunteering this
feature.  If someone really wants to still do it, there is nothing in
Fedora stopping it from happening.  I was merely raising a potential
issue to think about in advance.

Rahul

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Kevin Kofler]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
 It is not useful to generalize. There are lots of software components
 which aren't actively maintained but are useful to have in the
 distribution and all distributions have them however a desktop
 environment is a lot of work to maintain (as seen for instance in
 http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1901) and if upstream is not active, then
 any potential needs to be aware of this before volunteering this
 feature.  If someone really wants to still do it, there is nothing in
 Fedora stopping it from happening.  I was merely raising a potential
 issue to think about in advance.

Software with dead or almost dead upstream is a two-edged sword:
* If the software is working well, that's the software which is easiest to
  maintain, since there are generally few to no new upstream releases to
  take care of. :-) (But if it's something like Trinity, which manages to
  churn out release after release with a single maintainer, including
  binary-incompatible library changes, that's also not the case. But I'd
  place that in the below paragraph anyway. ;-) There are literally
  THOUSANDS of KDE 3 bugs closed as fixed in KDE SC 4.)
* If the software has many bugs, it's the software which is hardest to
  maintain, because then YOU as the Fedora maintainer are on the hook for
  fixing those bugs.
Unfortunately, a desktop environment tends to be in the latter situation.

So I'm sceptical about MATE (seeing what's going on with Trinity) and I can 
only strongly discourage attempting to package Trinity.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Heiko Adams]

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Am 10.12.2011 01:20, schrieb Kevin Kofler:
 So I'm sceptical about MATE (seeing what's going on with Trinity)
 and I can only strongly discourage attempting to package Trinity.

I agree to that point of view. IMHO MATE is a waste of time and
manpower like Trinity as well. There no real need for those desktops
because Gnome 3 refugees could also use Lxde or Xfce which already
feel like Gnome 2 wich some customization work.

BTW: As far as I know there still some Unix distributions which ship
KDE 3.5 but they ship AFAIK the original KDE bits and not trinity.

Regards,

Heiko
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 12/09/2011 09:20 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE 
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of 
 GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the 
 remaining MATE packages.
 
 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official 
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?

Sure but is MATE actively developed and does it have more than one
developer?  I am worried about sustainability.

Rahul
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Peter Lemenkov]

Hello

2011/12/9 Eric Smith e...@brouhaha.com:
 I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
 desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
 GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
 remaining MATE packages.

Mate is  unmaintained (e.g. maintained by unqualified enough) and
doesn't attract any significant interest from the community except few
blog-posts from newcomers and distrohoppers who underestimate the
necessary amount of work required to fork Gnome. Thus I believe this
could be no more than a constant source of troubles. I'd rather help
others with transition to Gnome3, as some active members of our local
community (Russian Fedora) does.

 Would anyone like to see the MATE desktop environment as an official
 feature of Fedora 17 or Fedora 18?

No. That's just my opinion but you asked for it.

-- 
With best regards, Peter Lemenkov.
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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 09:24 +0300, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
 Hello
 
 2011/12/9 Eric Smith e...@brouhaha.com:
  I've submitted review requests for the first two packages for the MATE
  desktop environment, mate-doc-utils and mate-corba.  MATE is a fork of
  GNOME 2.  I expect that it will take me a few months to package the
  remaining MATE packages.
 
 Mate is  unmaintained (e.g. maintained by unqualified enough) and
 doesn't attract any significant interest from the community except few
 blog-posts from newcomers and distrohoppers who underestimate the
 necessary amount of work required to fork Gnome. Thus I believe this
 could be no more than a constant source of troubles. I'd rather help
 others with transition to Gnome3, as some active members of our local
 community (Russian Fedora) does.

Is Mint providing any backing to it? I know they shipped it in their
latest release, but don't know anything beyond that.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Re: MATE desktop environment (GNOME 2 fork)

[Eric Smith]

Peter Lemenkov wrote:
  I'd rather help others with transition to Gnome3, as some active 
members of our local
  community (Russian Fedora) does.

I've spent months trying to get used to Gnome 3, and had lots of help 
from various people, and I still can't stand it.  Yes, I know that there 
are people that like Gnome 3, but I'm not one of them.  
Gnome-shell-frippery helps, but isn't enough.

I tried switching to Xfce, and found it to be a lot better than Gnome 3, 
but it was still missing a lot of things I'm accustomed to in Gnome 2.

I'm not trying to start another advocacy thread.  I'm just trying to 
package up an alternative for people like me who liked Gnome 2 better.

Eric

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