Bundle Commentary posted.

[Michael Stone]

Several days ago, Jameson, Chris Ball, Robert McQueen, and I chatted for
two hours about the UI problems posed by our current bundle format.
This email is a simple notification that I have posted a (mildly) edited
transcript of that discussion [1] for feedback and merging with the
existing discussion that Jameson has been maintaining [2].

[1]: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Mstone/Bundle_commentary
[2]: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bundles_and_updates

Michael
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: networking scenarios

[Mel Chua]

http://x.mepemepe.com/wiki/Digital_School_in_the_Box is the project that SJ
referenced, and they are indeed going forth with XOs for the first prototype
(last I heard - supposedly they will deploy the prototype next week, based
on the conversation that I had with the folks there last week). They welcome
comments on their wiki talk page.

I bring this up because the UNICEF tech crew working on this has plenty of
in-the-field network infrastructure deployment experience in a whole range
of remote and difficult secnarios (and probably contact with people who have
much more). If there are questions on what use-cases would be good/vital to
plan for, or how setup X would actually look to the folks who'll be
deploying it in the field, they might be great people to talk to.

It doesn't address how to solve things technically (although they have some
pretty talented hackers - who knows, they might have suggestions) but could
help in "backing up" the priority list of which problems should be solved
most urgently. Not sure if this is helpful right now.

Also, to answer Daf's original question, I took a stab and put up
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Networking_scenarios (with some discussion from
this thread on the talk page) - move/edit/delete and all the usual if I've
duplicated something. This page is currently an orphan, so if someone could
link to it from some other relevant pages, I'd be most grateful.

-Mel

2008/4/12 Samuel Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Javier,
>
> The humble towns are most important.
>
> An aside : when I was last in New York (for the story jam a couple
> weekends ago) I saw a UNICEF poster display of a disaster-area "school in a
> box" -- two suitcase-sized containers with all of the materials and
> power-generators needed to run a single server creating its own sat or radio
> internet connection, and a few attached terminals.  The design was for
> regions with no infrastructure at all.  A poster mockup listed XOs as ideal
> terminals...
>
> SJ
>
> 2008/4/11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >  Hello Dafydd and all...
> > *Question:*
> > I think that you mean that the "school server" has "internet access".
> > Is it possible to have a "school server" without "internet access" ? (just 
> > to do... what? bigger "collaboration" between the XOs? software repository? 
> > documents & books repository?.  Many scenarios are possible.
> >
> > So I think you can add to the fourth scenarios: "Internet access" or "No 
> > internet access" and what kind: ADSL, phone line, Satelital, or other ways.
> > *Idea:*Add to your scenarios:
> >
> > "Kind of energy available for the XOs:"
> >
> > Then we will face the "forgotten" problem: the humble towns, the ones that 
> > are over the
> > 3,500 meters altitude, the ones that are in the "worst" scenarios... they 
> > don't have any
> > kind of electricity.  So the "cranck", the "solar panels", air or human 
> > generated energy
> > is part of the equation IF we are going to reach those "worst scenarios".
> >
> > Helping first the ones that will survive? That is for first aid in 
> > disasters. In this
> > case we must try to help the "forgotten" worst scenarios and I hope that 
> > MOST of the
> > XOs that come to Peru will go to the poorest towns.
> > *Comment:*
> > You say: "...
> >  - school WiFi
> >- access points
> >- school server with Jabber server
> >  - only one server at a time
> >- this is what is deployed in Peru ...
> >
> > ... this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
> > deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar."
> >
> > I think that this scenario is good for a test, not as the intended "niche" 
> > were
> > the XOs must be deployed.  I think the XO computers in Peru
> > will get better use in the WORST scenarios.  A kid that lives in a town 
> > with a school that have
> > 5 standard PCs with dialup Internet is in better condition that a kid that 
> > lives in a
> > town with a school with no PCs and no Internet.  Who need us more? The 
> > second one.  Who will
> > benefit more? The second one.
> >
> > Yes, yes, yes.  It is harder to put the XOs in the WORST scenario. And 
> > maybe 20% of the kids
> > that are now 6 years old will not reach the 12 years old in those 
> > "forgotten villages" in my
> > country (Peru).  But... we must try.
> > *Better scenario (for developing best help with poorest children):*There is 
> > no need to travel to the high andes to find the kids that need us more.
> > There are schools in the surroundings of Lima with "no light", "no tables", 
> > "no desks", "no chairs".
> > Every kid is sit down in a brick.  The teacher
> > uses the wall as board.  I don't know how many of this schools exists in 
> > Lima.
> > But for sure that they exist, dozens? Yes, no doubt.
> >
> > Ah... the last earthquake gave us another opportunity: just 3 hours away
> > from Lima, in the coast, no mountains,
> > 90% of the schools have been destroyed.  In this "Ica" region Chi

Re: networking scenarios

[Samuel Klein]

Javier,

The humble towns are most important.

An aside : when I was last in New York (for the story jam a couple weekends
ago) I saw a UNICEF poster display of a disaster-area "school in a box" --
two suitcase-sized containers with all of the materials and power-generators
needed to run a single server creating its own sat or radio internet
connection, and a few attached terminals.  The design was for regions with
no infrastructure at all.  A poster mockup listed XOs as ideal terminals...

SJ

2008/4/11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>  Hello Dafydd and all...
> *Question:*
> I think that you mean that the "school server" has "internet access".
> Is it possible to have a "school server" without "internet access" ? (just to 
> do... what? bigger "collaboration" between the XOs? software repository? 
> documents & books repository?.  Many scenarios are possible.
>
> So I think you can add to the fourth scenarios: "Internet access" or "No 
> internet access" and what kind: ADSL, phone line, Satelital, or other ways.
> *Idea:*Add to your scenarios:
>
> "Kind of energy available for the XOs:"
>
> Then we will face the "forgotten" problem: the humble towns, the ones that 
> are over the
> 3,500 meters altitude, the ones that are in the "worst" scenarios... they 
> don't have any
> kind of electricity.  So the "cranck", the "solar panels", air or human 
> generated energy
> is part of the equation IF we are going to reach those "worst scenarios".
>
> Helping first the ones that will survive? That is for first aid in disasters. 
> In this
> case we must try to help the "forgotten" worst scenarios and I hope that MOST 
> of the
> XOs that come to Peru will go to the poorest towns.
> *Comment:*
> You say: "...
>  - school WiFi
>- access points
>- school server with Jabber server
>  - only one server at a time
>- this is what is deployed in Peru ...
>
> ... this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
> deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar."
>
> I think that this scenario is good for a test, not as the intended "niche" 
> were
> the XOs must be deployed.  I think the XO computers in Peru
> will get better use in the WORST scenarios.  A kid that lives in a town with 
> a school that have
> 5 standard PCs with dialup Internet is in better condition that a kid that 
> lives in a
> town with a school with no PCs and no Internet.  Who need us more? The second 
> one.  Who will
> benefit more? The second one.
>
> Yes, yes, yes.  It is harder to put the XOs in the WORST scenario. And maybe 
> 20% of the kids
> that are now 6 years old will not reach the 12 years old in those "forgotten 
> villages" in my
> country (Peru).  But... we must try.
> *Better scenario (for developing best help with poorest children):*There is 
> no need to travel to the high andes to find the kids that need us more.
> There are schools in the surroundings of Lima with "no light", "no tables", 
> "no desks", "no chairs".
> Every kid is sit down in a brick.  The teacher
> uses the wall as board.  I don't know how many of this schools exists in Lima.
> But for sure that they exist, dozens? Yes, no doubt.
>
> Ah... the last earthquake gave us another opportunity: just 3 hours away
> from Lima, in the coast, no mountains,
> 90% of the schools have been destroyed.  In this "Ica" region Children are
> studying (if they are studying) in any kind of
> temporal "school" ... in the worst conditions.  There must be more than
> 200 schools (all sizes) destroyed there.
> Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a XO that can improve their
> educational conditions? Yes. No doubt.
>
> I hope that upcoming XO deployments will get not the poor children but the
> POOREST children in Peru.
>
> Let's keep moving.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Javier Rodriguez
> Lima, Peru
>
>
>
>
> Dafydd Harries wrote:
>
> This is something which was not completely clear to me until I talked to Wad
> about it the other day, and I think other people might find it useful. It
> should probably go on the wiki (assuming it isn't already there somewhere). 
> I'd
> like some feedback about where it belongs. The closest thing I've found is 
> this
> page:
>
>   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Scenario_taxonomy
>
> Any errors are my own.
>
> There are four networking scenarios:
>
>  - simple mesh
>- no access point
>- no school server
>- we are currently aiming to support up to 15 laptops in this case
>  - simple WiFi
>- access points
>  - which tend not to handle multicast very well (1Mbit/s peak)
>- no school server
>- this is what G1G1 laptops will tend to encounter
>- typically in the developed world
>  - school mesh
>- no access point
>- school server with Jabber server
>  - school WiFi
>- access points
>- school server with Jabber server
>  - only one server at a time
>- this is what is deployed in Peru
>
> Our current priority in terms of collaboration is to improve supprt f

Re: networking scenarios

[david]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hello Dafydd and all...
>
> _*Question:*_
> I think that you mean that the "school server" has "internet access".
> Is it possible to have a "school server" without "internet access" ? (just to 
> do... what? bigger "collaboration" between the XOs? software repository? 
> documents & books repository?.  Many scenarios are possible.
>
> So I think you can add to the fourth scenarios: "Internet access" or "No 
> internet access" and what kind: ADSL, phone line, Satelital, or other ways. 
> _*Idea:
> *_Add to your scenarios: 
> "Kind of energy available for the XOs:"
>
> Then we will face the "forgotten" problem: the humble towns, the ones that 
> are over the
> 3,500 meters altitude, the ones that are in the "worst" scenarios... they 
> don't have any
> kind of electricity.  So the "cranck", the "solar panels", air or human 
> generated energy
> is part of the equation IF we are going to reach those "worst scenarios".

I think the basic network scenarios cover these situations. they don't 
care how the machines are powered.

even the question of if the school server (or access point) is connected 
to the Internet doesn't really make a difference when you are looking at 
how the laptops talk to each other, and to whatever services are available 
on the wired network (if any).

David Lang
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: networking scenarios

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hello Dafydd and all...

_*Question:*_
I think that you mean that the "school server" has "internet access".
Is it possible to have a "school server" without "internet access" ? (just to do... what? 
bigger "collaboration" between the XOs? software repository? documents & books repository?.  Many 
scenarios are possible.

So I think you can add to the fourth scenarios: "Internet access" or "No internet access" and what kind: ADSL, phone line, Satelital, or other ways.  


_*Idea:
*_Add to your scenarios: 


"Kind of energy available for the XOs:"

Then we will face the "forgotten" problem: the humble towns, the ones that are 
over the
3,500 meters altitude, the ones that are in the "worst" scenarios... they don't 
have any
kind of electricity.  So the "cranck", the "solar panels", air or human 
generated energy
is part of the equation IF we are going to reach those "worst scenarios".

Helping first the ones that will survive? That is for first aid in disasters. 
In this
case we must try to help the "forgotten" worst scenarios and I hope that MOST of the 
XOs that come to Peru will go to the poorest towns.


_*Comment:*_
You say: "...
- school WiFi
  - access points
  - school server with Jabber server
- only one server at a time
  - this is what is deployed in Peru ...

... this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar."

I think that this scenario is good for a test, not as the intended "niche" were
the XOs must be deployed.  I think the XO computers in Peru
will get better use in the WORST scenarios.  A kid that lives in a town with a 
school that have
5 standard PCs with dialup Internet is in better condition that a kid that 
lives in a
town with a school with no PCs and no Internet.  Who need us more? The second 
one.  Who will
benefit more? The second one.

Yes, yes, yes.  It is harder to put the XOs in the WORST scenario. And maybe 
20% of the kids
that are now 6 years old will not reach the 12 years old in those "forgotten 
villages" in my
country (Peru).  But... we must try.

_*Better scenario (for developing best help with poorest children):
*_There is no need to travel to the high andes to find the kids that need us 
more.
There are schools in the surroundings of Lima with "no light", "no tables", "no desks", "no chairs".  
Every kid is sit down in a brick.  The teacher

uses the wall as board.  I don't know how many of this schools exists in Lima.
But for sure that they exist, dozens? Yes, no doubt.

Ah... the last earthquake gave us another opportunity: just 3 hours away 
from Lima, in the coast, no mountains,
90% of the schools have been destroyed.  In this "Ica" region Children 
are studying (if they are studying) in any kind of
temporal "school" ... in the worst conditions.  There must be more than 
200 schools (all sizes) destroyed there.
Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a XO that can improve their 
educational conditions? Yes. No doubt.


I hope that upcoming XO deployments will get not the poor children but 
the POOREST children in Peru.


Let's keep moving.

Best regards,

Javier Rodriguez
Lima, Peru



Dafydd Harries wrote:

This is something which was not completely clear to me until I talked to Wad
about it the other day, and I think other people might find it useful. It
should probably go on the wiki (assuming it isn't already there somewhere). I'd
like some feedback about where it belongs. The closest thing I've found is this
page:

  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Scenario_taxonomy

Any errors are my own.

There are four networking scenarios:

 - simple mesh
   - no access point
   - no school server
   - we are currently aiming to support up to 15 laptops in this case
 - simple WiFi
   - access points
 - which tend not to handle multicast very well (1Mbit/s peak)
   - no school server
   - this is what G1G1 laptops will tend to encounter
   - typically in the developed world
 - school mesh
   - no access point
   - school server with Jabber server
 - school WiFi
   - access points
   - school server with Jabber server
 - only one server at a time
   - this is what is deployed in Peru

Our current priority in terms of collaboration is to improve supprt for the
fourth case, as this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. Our
secondary priority is improving support for the second case, as this is what
will tend happen when laptops are taken home from school.

  


___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: dropbox mechanism

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Friday 11 April 2008, Ricardo Carrano wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I want to include a new wireless firmware into joyride for testing (proper
> announcement will follow as soon as I find out how).
>
> It was suggested that I used the dropbox mechanism (
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Build_system#Dropbox_Mechanism ).
>
> But the instructions are too succinct given my level of knowledge of git
> and OLPC's build process.  Is someone in the list familiar with this? If so
> would this someone give me a hand?
>
> Thank you!
> Ricardo

I will put the new firmware in if im notified of it.  
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware_release_procedures

File a trac bug assign it to me user dgilmore and I will build it in koji.  
and get it pushed into joyride as well as updated in fedora.

Dennis


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Question regarding joyride usb images

[Samuel Klein]

Good afternoon,

You may also find bert's script a handy way to install the base activity
pack:
   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert's_script

cheers,
SJ

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> You may want to build a customization key as described in the wiki:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key
>
> regards.
> -walter
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Jeff Spaleta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Good Alaskan Afternoon!
> >
> >  I'm trying to get started with the testing and development process on
> >  the hardware itself, now that my g1g1 hardware has finally arrived
> >  (4 days ago).  I've got the joyride daily usb images booting, but I
> >  have a question.  What is the best way to install activities for use
> >  with the ext3 usb joyride images?  Now that the activities have to be
> >  added to the base image, I'm not sure how to install the ones I want
> >  to test while using the ext3 devel usb images. xo-get falls over with
> >  traceback errors when run from the console.  Since I only have one
> >  laptop on hand locally, I was hoping to boot from usb images for
> >  testing so I can leave the installed image somewhat pristine so I can
> >  do local show and tells with people.
> >
> >  -jef"Fedora Project Board member and dedicated proponent of an Alaskan
> >  OLPC deployment"spaleta
> >  ___
> >  Devel mailing list
> >  Devel@lists.laptop.org
> >  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> Devel@lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: networking scenarios

[Walter Bender]

It depends upon what you mean. We have situations where even two
laptops connected by simple mesh fail to properly transfer data. Then
again, the failures also occur in the other 3 scenarios as well.

-walter

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dafydd Harries wrote:
>  > This is something which was not completely clear to me until I talked to 
> Wad
>  > about it the other day, and I think other people might find it useful. It
>  > should probably go on the wiki (assuming it isn't already there 
> somewhere). I'd
>  > like some feedback about where it belongs. The closest thing I've found is 
> this
>  > page:
>  >
>  >   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Scenario_taxonomy
>  >
>  > Any errors are my own.
>  >
>  > There are four networking scenarios:
>  >
>  >  - simple mesh
>  >- no access point
>  >- no school server
>  >- we are currently aiming to support up to 15 laptops in this case
>  >
>  We are beyond 15 laptops in the simple mesh scenario. I am consistently
>  testing "simple mesh" with 30 laptops and we are aiming for more than
>  50. Scaling the "simple mesh" somewhere between 50 - 100 laptops may
>  have significant impact on the (potential need for) other scenarios.
>
>  Pol
>
>
>  >  - simple WiFi
>  >- access points
>  >  - which tend not to handle multicast very well (1Mbit/s peak)
>  >- no school server
>  >- this is what G1G1 laptops will tend to encounter
>  >- typically in the developed world
>  >  - school mesh
>  >- no access point
>  >- school server with Jabber server
>  >  - school WiFi
>  >- access points
>  >- school server with Jabber server
>  >  - only one server at a time
>  >- this is what is deployed in Peru
>  >
>  > Our current priority in terms of collaboration is to improve supprt for the
>  > fourth case, as this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
>  > deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. Our
>  > secondary priority is improving support for the second case, as this is 
> what
>  > will tend happen when laptops are taken home from school.
>  >
>
>
> ___
>  Devel mailing list
>  Devel@lists.laptop.org
>  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: networking scenarios

[Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos]

Dafydd Harries wrote:
> This is something which was not completely clear to me until I talked to Wad
> about it the other day, and I think other people might find it useful. It
> should probably go on the wiki (assuming it isn't already there somewhere). 
> I'd
> like some feedback about where it belongs. The closest thing I've found is 
> this
> page:
>
>   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Scenario_taxonomy
>
> Any errors are my own.
>
> There are four networking scenarios:
>
>  - simple mesh
>- no access point
>- no school server
>- we are currently aiming to support up to 15 laptops in this case
>   
We are beyond 15 laptops in the simple mesh scenario. I am consistently 
testing "simple mesh" with 30 laptops and we are aiming for more than 
50. Scaling the "simple mesh" somewhere between 50 - 100 laptops may 
have significant impact on the (potential need for) other scenarios.

Pol

>  - simple WiFi
>- access points
>  - which tend not to handle multicast very well (1Mbit/s peak)
>- no school server
>- this is what G1G1 laptops will tend to encounter
>- typically in the developed world
>  - school mesh
>- no access point
>- school server with Jabber server
>  - school WiFi
>- access points
>- school server with Jabber server
>  - only one server at a time
>- this is what is deployed in Peru
>
> Our current priority in terms of collaboration is to improve supprt for the
> fourth case, as this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
> deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. Our
> secondary priority is improving support for the second case, as this is what
> will tend happen when laptops are taken home from school.
>   
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Question regarding joyride usb images

[Walter Bender]

You may want to build a customization key as described in the wiki:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key

regards.
-walter

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Jeff Spaleta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good Alaskan Afternoon!
>
>  I'm trying to get started with the testing and development process on
>  the hardware itself, now that my g1g1 hardware has finally arrived
>  (4 days ago).  I've got the joyride daily usb images booting, but I
>  have a question.  What is the best way to install activities for use
>  with the ext3 usb joyride images?  Now that the activities have to be
>  added to the base image, I'm not sure how to install the ones I want
>  to test while using the ext3 devel usb images. xo-get falls over with
>  traceback errors when run from the console.  Since I only have one
>  laptop on hand locally, I was hoping to boot from usb images for
>  testing so I can leave the installed image somewhat pristine so I can
>  do local show and tells with people.
>
>  -jef"Fedora Project Board member and dedicated proponent of an Alaskan
>  OLPC deployment"spaleta
>  ___
>  Devel mailing list
>  Devel@lists.laptop.org
>  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

networking scenarios

[Dafydd Harries]

This is something which was not completely clear to me until I talked to Wad
about it the other day, and I think other people might find it useful. It
should probably go on the wiki (assuming it isn't already there somewhere). I'd
like some feedback about where it belongs. The closest thing I've found is this
page:

  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Scenario_taxonomy

Any errors are my own.

There are four networking scenarios:

 - simple mesh
   - no access point
   - no school server
   - we are currently aiming to support up to 15 laptops in this case
 - simple WiFi
   - access points
 - which tend not to handle multicast very well (1Mbit/s peak)
   - no school server
   - this is what G1G1 laptops will tend to encounter
   - typically in the developed world
 - school mesh
   - no access point
   - school server with Jabber server
 - school WiFi
   - access points
   - school server with Jabber server
 - only one server at a time
   - this is what is deployed in Peru

Our current priority in terms of collaboration is to improve supprt for the
fourth case, as this is the situation most of our existing laptops are
deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. Our
secondary priority is improving support for the second case, as this is what
will tend happen when laptops are taken home from school.

-- 
Dafydd
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Question regarding joyride usb images

[Jeff Spaleta]

Good Alaskan Afternoon!

I'm trying to get started with the testing and development process on
the hardware itself, now that my g1g1 hardware has finally arrived
(4 days ago).  I've got the joyride daily usb images booting, but I
have a question.  What is the best way to install activities for use
with the ext3 usb joyride images?  Now that the activities have to be
added to the base image, I'm not sure how to install the ones I want
to test while using the ext3 devel usb images. xo-get falls over with
traceback errors when run from the console.  Since I only have one
laptop on hand locally, I was hoping to boot from usb images for
testing so I can leave the installed image somewhat pristine so I can
do local show and tells with people.

-jef"Fedora Project Board member and dedicated proponent of an Alaskan
OLPC deployment"spaleta
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

dropbox mechanism

[Ricardo Carrano]

Hi!

I want to include a new wireless firmware into joyride for testing (proper
announcement will follow as soon as I find out how).

It was suggested that I used the dropbox mechanism (
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Build_system#Dropbox_Mechanism ).

But the instructions are too succinct given my level of knowledge of git and
OLPC's build process.  Is someone in the list familiar with this? If so
would this someone give me a hand?

Thank you!
Ricardo
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: [OLPC-Games] Wordsmith ( Scrabble ) :GSoC application

[Edward Cherlin]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Aditya Vishwakarma
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am Aditya Vishwakarma. An Information Technology student at NSIT, Delhi.
>
> I am working on making a Scrabble game as a GSoC project called Wordsmith.
> The wiki page is located here -
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Wordsmith(scrabble)

Does Scrabble exist in Hindi or any other language of India? I know
how we could support Scrabble in any linear alphabetic writing such as
Cyrillic alphabet, but I have trouble imagining it in Arabic, Chinese,
Amharic, or Japanese kana.

> Scrabble is an highly enjoyable and social. And it puts real motivation to
> extend the vocabulary. After an online game of scrabble, the players would
> not only be refreshed, but have a much stronger vocabulary than before. I
> believe with the right implementation, this game can easily turn out to be
> one of the best games on XO laptops.

I have not found it to increase vocabulary significantly. Does anybody
know of any studies on this?

> I would love to hear your feedback and comments.
>
>
> Thanking you
> Aditya Vishwakarma
>
> ___
>  Games mailing list
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/games

-- 
Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Wordsmith ( Scrabble ) :GSoC application

[Aditya Vishwakarma]

"Charles Cossé" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You might be interested to  look at TuxWordSmith.  It's a python code
> which plays scrabble in over 40 languages and was recently mentioned on this
> list.
>

TuxWordSmith would be awesome. I have downloaded the source code and would
review it out. I hope it is easily extendable to the project goals i have in
my mind.
I hope you would allow me to use your code as a base for the project.

btw: It's intresting to note , we both came up with the same name:
Wordsmith. :)

Frank Ch. Eigler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Beware recent trademark/copyright enforcement efforts by the owners of
> the game name/concept.  (google hasbro scrabble facebook).
>

I totally understand that issue and have written about it in the gsoc
application page too. I would build upon the differentiations that have been
used by TuxWordSmith in order to differentiate the game from the original.

RABINOVITCH Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think this'd be great!
> I have an 11 yr old autistic daughter, and we did a give-1-get-1 for her
> and now we're always on the lookout for games on the XO that will help her
> communication skills - and I think she'd enjoy your game.
>
> As I read it, I thought about all the features I'd like, in order to make
> it of most use to her, and after looking at your wiki page, I see that you
> have them all and more.
>
> Good work, & good luck!
>

Thank you so much for the warm feedback! Its nice to know you like my idea.
:)


Aditya
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: lease.sig file format oddities...

[Martin Langhoff]

Ahhh. Fantastic, thanks! What I will need here is the Canonical JSON writer from

http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/olpc-contents;a=blob;f=bitfrost/util/json.py;h=04d513d48298e55eb5b6295b3edab51bc0b7f3dd;hb=HEAD

cheers,



martin
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Wordsmith ( Scrabble ) :GSoC application

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Aditya Vishwakarma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I am working on making a Scrabble game as a GSoC project called Wordsmith.
> [...]

Beware recent trademark/copyright enforcement efforts by the owners of
the game name/concept.  (google hasbro scrabble facebook).

- FChE
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Where did all the activities go?

[Eben Eliason]

Marcus -

You've grabbed a build in a bit of a transition period.  It contains
the basic implementation of the new designs, which you can review on
the wiki at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Activity_Management.
The toolbar in Home offers two views -- ring and list -- and the
former displays only those activities you have starred as favorites.
At present, there is no default set of favorites (which is why your
ring is empty, and you think you have no activities).  That will be
fixed in the future.

In the meantime, try adding some via the list view, and please give us
any feedback you have on the new designs.  Thanks!

- Eben


2008/4/11 Marcus Leech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>
> I just updated from a 1700-series Joyride to Joyride 1855.  There's no
> activity bar along the bottom of the home page.
>
> Help?
> ___
>  Devel mailing list
>  Devel@lists.laptop.org
>  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Wordsmith ( Scrabble ) :GSoC application

[Aditya Vishwakarma]

Hi,

I am Aditya Vishwakarma. An Information Technology student at NSIT, Delhi.

I am working on making a Scrabble game as a GSoC project called Wordsmith.
The wiki page is located here -
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Wordsmith(scrabble)

Scrabble is an highly enjoyable and social. And it puts real motivation to
extend the vocabulary. After an online game of scrabble, the players would
not only be refreshed, but have a much stronger vocabulary than before. I
believe with the right implementation, this game can easily turn out to be
one of the best games on XO laptops.

I would love to hear your feedback and comments.


Thanking you
Aditya Vishwakarma
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Making Plans

[Michael Stone]

Tomeu, 

Thanks very much for stepping up with such good questions. I'm sorry
that I haven't got more in the way of answers, but here's what I've
got:

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 02:18:33PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> What is the process we are going to use to decide what should people
> be working on?

In a recent email entitled "Notes from a Planning Session" [1], I
wrote that we are soliciting feedback in order to publish a written
statement of what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and why we want
to do it. 

  [1]: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-April/012659.html

In more detail: Chris, Scott, and I are formulating a release strategy
for the next 8 or so months with detailed information about what we
hope to release in 4 months. It remains to be seen how the strategy
proposed by the Tech Team will be received by the sales team, the
deployment team, and by other interested parties; however, I am fairly
confident that, when presented, it will:
 
 * represent the diversity of views within the tech _team_ about the
   risks and opportunities afforded by the recognized paths forward, 

 * state and justify one primary path that we intend to take, and 

 * explain our fallback plan if we encounter unsurmountable roadblocks
   along our chosen path. 

In its final form, it will also explain what feedback we have received
from sales & deployment. In its draft form, it will propose a
reasonable deadline for revisions based on new feedback from those
teams. 

It is my firmly held belief that the availability of such a document,
signed by the relevant team members, would represent a major step
forward in our ability to explain what we're doing, who we're doing it
with, and why.

Is this a satisfying answer to your question?

Michael

P.S. - Thanks again for your dedication to date - we wouldn't be
able to have this conversation without the unsung efforts of you and
many others who share your dream.
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Where did all the activities go?

[Marcus Leech]

I just updated from a 1700-series Joyride to Joyride 1855.  There's no
activity bar along the bottom of the home page.

Help?

___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Tickets for mesh problems

[John Watlington]

I'm trying to put together a list of open tickets relating to mesh  
behavior.

Here is the list I think is mostly complete.  Does anyone have a  
favorite
mesh problem ticket that I missed ?

Cheers,
wad

Mesh transport problems directly suspected as cause:

4153 - Connect to linklocal instead of school mesh, DHCP failure  
(5963 is dup)
5908 - Laptop unable to connect to schoolserver jabber server
3964 - Can't get to the internet when 'connected' to a school server  
mesh
4975 - Association fails

Possibly caused by mesh transport problems:

6811 - WLAN doesn't reassociate with known access points
6774 - Read fails to transfer document when using salut
6739 - Activity sharing failing often with salut.
5848 - Losing WLAN circle after failing to connect to anything
5527 - G1G1 users complain that the XO affects their local network
5194 - WLAN module communication issues

Probably caused by implementation problems (mesh transport probably  
not involved)

6589 - XO stops responding to mesh path requests frames
6587 - Failure to receive traffic on mesh interface
6586 - SCAN command fails, timer doesn't fire
6553 - No XOs in the mesh view and avahi seemed crashed
6529 - Multicast ping over eth0 (not mesh) sometimes produces  
duplicate packets
6528 - Packets that wake the laptop from suspend are often lost
6527 - Mesh does not forward multicast packets (most of the time)
6525 - Presence not re-established after connecting to network
6463 - Invites don't work in simple mesh mode
6287 - Associating with one mesh prevents you from successfully  
associating with a different one.
6279 - Cannot see Linksys AP on channel 9
5335 - More mdns traffic then expected
5078 - A more mesh-friendly presence protocol for salut
4901 - Ctest cannot see wireless APs (antenna sensitivity reduced)
2097 - Can't do DHCP at vmware @ 5CC

Recent Firmware releases

6869 - Firmware release - 5.110.22.p9
6854 - Firmware release - 5.110.22.p8

___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: lease.sig file format oddities...

[C. Scott Ananian]

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware_Security
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware_Key_and_Signature_Formats
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contents_manifest_specification
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Canonical_JSON
http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/leases
http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/olpc-contents
http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/olpc-contents;a=blob_plain;f=rpms/olpccontents-2.1-1.20080131git7206e521fc.i386.rpm;hb=HEAD
http://dev.laptop.org/~cscott/joyride-1477-api/toc-bitfrost.util-module.html
  --scott
-- 
( http://cscott.net/ )
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Usability testing

[Walter Bender]

And in point of fact, the new designs are in large part informed by
observations made in the field over the past two years.

There are many details, such as the color selector, that we have all
agreed are far from the mark--many of these are documented in Trac,
but perhaps a collector bug would be a useful addition.

And there are certain features where we are far from reaching
consensus, most notably the behavior of the Frame
appearance/disappearance. I would love to see a "usability" study of
this feature within the context of the new design.

-walter

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>
>  Carol Lerche wrote:
>  | A good example is the rococco color picking widget.  According to my
>  | observation this is very difficult for small children to use, and to learn.
>
>  Perhaps you would care to look at
>  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Toolbars#11
>
>  A glance through the Designs section of the wiki will answer your question
>  about why there isn't a bigger push for usability testing: because Sugar
>  isn't anywhere close to implementing its design.  Personally, I expect
>  that usability testing will serve almost exclusively to tell us what we
>  already know is wrong with the current implementation.  Once the new
>  designs are implemented, then it will be a good time to test usability to
>  search for further improvements.
>
>  - --Ben
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
>  Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
>  iD8DBQFH/3h6UJT6e6HFtqQRAnJnAKCJ9omoXn3A0jR9wxcdf6wtpqIRrgCgnDNj
>  P+APSa/E9fDM/9lpAdBQa9I=
>  =lnH9
>  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
> ___
>  Devel mailing list
>  Devel@lists.laptop.org
>  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Get involved - Measure Activity on the XO

[Andrew Burgess]

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:48:27 -0700, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

> Stereo output, mono input. Arghhh. So much value lost to save one wire
> and part of a chip

The chip supports stereo. There was a post here a few weeks ago that
explained how to bypass a broken mic input by reworking the circuit board  
to
use the second channel.

So a few passive componants to protect the input and a slightly more
expensive mic socket were saved.

A stereo mic socket can use stereo or mono mics so it would be a
backward compatible change for the XO-2 :-)
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: lease.sig file format oddities...

[Martin Langhoff]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Martin Langhoff
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  As far as I can see, oddities are

And before I forget

 - python-json can read the files correctly
 - python-json cannot write files that work -- it does not match the
whitespace format, and cannot be sorted

I currently have 2 implementations in Perl and 1 in Python of
cat-leases, they all produce valid JSON but fail to work on the
laptops

hints...?


m
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

lease.sig file format oddities...

[Martin Langhoff]

Hi Scott, List,

The cat-leases.pl script I posted yesterday doesn't work, and I am a
bit lost. What libraries are being used for reading/writing those?

As far as I can see, oddities are

 - the lease files that work are not strictly JSON, according to the
strict Perl JSON parser and jsonlint
 - it must be sorted for the activation to work
 - it is wrapped like [1, $data]
 - the reader seems sensitive to whitespace and perhaps \n-encoded newlines

does anyone know more about these?

cheers,


martin
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Usability testing

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Carol Lerche wrote:
| A good example is the rococco color picking widget.  According to my
| observation this is very difficult for small children to use, and to learn.

Perhaps you would care to look at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Toolbars#11

A glance through the Designs section of the wiki will answer your question
about why there isn't a bigger push for usability testing: because Sugar
isn't anywhere close to implementing its design.  Personally, I expect
that usability testing will serve almost exclusively to tell us what we
already know is wrong with the current implementation.  Once the new
designs are implemented, then it will be a good time to test usability to
search for further improvements.

- --Ben
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH/3h6UJT6e6HFtqQRAnJnAKCJ9omoXn3A0jR9wxcdf6wtpqIRrgCgnDNj
P+APSa/E9fDM/9lpAdBQa9I=
=lnH9
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Usability testing

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Carol Lerche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your reference  argues not to start with usability tests before doing a
> design.  This is not what I suggested, since sugar as a design is largely
> complete at this point.  The article also. dismisses usability testing as
> worthless (despite backing and filling a bit toward the end).  I don't
> agree.  However, I assume from the supplied reference that you are stating
> that there hasn't been usability testing of sugar.  This is unfortunate.  I
> think it has real problems, some of which could be fixed through careful
> observation of its use by its target community in the context in which it is
> intended, namely classrooms with relatively low adult-student ratios.  This
> is a matter of improving the affordances of the design.  Simply asserting
> that any problems can be overcome by learning how doesn't seem responsive.

Carol,

if you are suggesting to use usability testing as a tool to improve
Sugar, I'm totally with you. As far as I know we have done only
sporadic testing so far, but we are working to fix that issue.

I had the impression you proposed to use usability testing as a way to
objectively declare Sugar as good or as bad design (I might have been
biased by another discussion going on at the same time). And ihmo that
would be a misuse of the tool, as the reference I linked asserts.

Marco
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Usability testing

[Carol Lerche]

Your reference  argues not to start with usability tests before doing a
design.  This is not what I suggested, since sugar as a design is largely
complete at this point.  The article also. dismisses usability testing as
worthless (despite backing and filling a bit toward the end).  I don't
agree.  However, I assume from the supplied reference that you are stating
that there hasn't been usability testing of sugar.  This is unfortunate.  I
think it has real problems, some of which could be fixed through careful
observation of its use by its target community in the context in which it is
intended, namely classrooms with relatively low adult-student ratios.  This
is a matter of improving the affordances of the design.  Simply asserting
that any problems can be overcome by learning how doesn't seem responsive.

A good example is the rococco color picking widget.  According to my
observation this is very difficult for small children to use, and to learn.
Swatches would be much simpler, with some way to invoke a fully general
picker for the more advanced user.  This is the type of issue that would be
readily seen (and with an open mind, corrected) through usability testing.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> 2008/4/11 Carol Lerche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Thank you for sharing this discussion.  Upon reading it I had two
> questions.
> >
> > Sugar.   I have seen offers on this list from a class ofuniversity
> graduate
> > students to do usability testing.  Maybe someone responded to them
> > privately.  (That would have been perfectly appropriate.)  But in
> reading
> > the portion of the planning discussion about APIs and sugar, I was
> struck by
> > the unstated assumption that the sugar interface is unquestionably a
> good
> > thing.  Where is the usability testing with children of the age groups
> OLPC
> > targets that proves that this is so, in comparison with a more
> conventional
> > desktop model?  In watching 5-6 year olds use the interface for a week,
> I
> > was struck by sugar's complexity in pursuit of simplicity.  It was a
> > difficult interface for the children to learn.  Too many steps,
> including
> > going among different screens.  Perhaps I am wrong.  But I would like to
> see
> > the same care in usability testing for younger kids that has been given
> to
> > ensuring that all the underlying components are written in Python and
> thus
> > potentially modifiable by the oldest target audience.  Please point me
> to
> > the usability studies I have missed.
>
> http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/onusabilitytesting
>
> Marco
>



-- 
"Always do right," said Mark Twain. "This will gratify some people and
astonish the rest."
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Notes from a Planning Session

[Ricardo Carrano]

Yes, we need to revisit the MPP scenario. Recently, we switched from dhcpd
to dnsmasq (not in current builds yet), saving a lot of memory (10MB) and
introducing a dns cache. But as Morgan, pointed out there are some bugs to
fix (though I suspect we already fixed some). Hope we have time to check
them soon.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:28 AM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > (APs in infrastructure mode) is what is happening
> >  > on the ground mostly. Still, it's not good as it kills the
> >  > mesh-to-the-school scheme which is one of the key technical goals.
> >
> >  This should be easy to fix.  Re-enable the NetworkManager code that
> >  allows any laptop to gateway the mesh to the Internet.  This all used
> >  to work in pre-B4 software, at least for USB Ethernet interfaces.  As
> >  long as the wifi chip can simultaneously do meshing and register with
> >  an access point (eth0 and msh0) then Internet access over a WiFi access
> >  point should look the same to NetworkManager as a wired eth0.
>
> IIRC the problem with this is that collaboration fails on the XO
> acting as the gateway. See #3136, #2980 - and of course your own
> #4641.
>
> Morgan
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> Devel@lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: "Chilling Effects" paper at USENIX UPSEC

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 3:08 AM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >4.  It is unfortunate that a respected conference did not do a
>  > better job at vetting this paper.

I don't know who wrote the response that you are replying to, John,
but I for one welcome both the paper and broader discussion of our
security plans & implementations in general.  We can't be so sensitive
about things!

>  I have given generously of my time to OLPC by following the project
>  for some three years now; testing B1, B2, B4, and MP machines;
>  supporting G1G1 users; recruiting and paying others to contribute;
>  researching SD card protocols; contributing to discussions by email,
>  phone, and IM; and filing dozens of bug reports.  OLPC has seldom
>  graciously "addressed my concerns" on fundamental design issues, such
>  as BitFrost, activation, developer keys, GPL compliance, game keys, or
>  anything else.  When I wasn't ignored, I was criticized for attacking
>  OLPC, or for failing to write up my concerns as a properly tested
>  source code patch.  It has been hard -- indeed, impossible -- for me
>  to gin up the requisite perseverence to actually implement anything
>  for OLPC, except small patches to SimCity.  (Making those patches
>  turned up numerous bugs, which I reported, which are still largely
>  being ignored.)

First: Thank you!  It's hard to say what "OLPC" feels about things,
but I for one certainly appreciate all you've done for the project.

(If you get a chance, could you post a pointer to the bugs you
referenced?  Or should I just search trac for [EMAIL PROTECTED]  It's true
that SimCity is not high on our priority list right now, but I know
that our trac triage has not lacking recently and your bugs tend to
deserve close attention.)

>  The BitFrost spec was so clearly a personal hobbyhorse of Ivan that
>  questioning its basic assumptions was heresy, grudgingly tolerated due
>  to my reputation, but otherwise ignored.  I decided very early on that
>  it wasn't worth wasting my time and making people mad by criticizing
>  BitFrost in detail, partly because I expected it to fall flat on its
>  face.  The parts that were worth focusing on were the pervasive DRM
>  (maybe now that Ivan's gone, I can go back to using the right name for
>  "crypto that disables the owner's control").  And I was ignored and
>  vilified on *that* until I escalated the DRM issue to Richard Stallman
>  over OLPC's ongoing non-compliance with GPLv3 (and also pointed out
>  non-compliance with GPLv2, which is ongoing).

Mako's been your liason on these issues -- I didn't know that we were
still deficient.  Please follow up, either to me or to Mako.

>  OLPC staff are overworked and underappreciated.  Working in the glare
>  of publicity has not made their jobs easier.  But giving OLPC an
>  opportunity to address your concerns is pretty much a null concept.
>  OLPC barely has the opportunity to address its own opportunities.

This is true, but OLPC is hiring again, which means that hopefully
soon we will only be underappreciated, not quite so much overworked.
We're more than doubling our devel team, hiring QA folk (finally!),
and I'm excited.  If y'all have high quality candidates, send them our
way!
  --scott

-- 
 ( http://cscott.net/ )
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Notes from a Planning Session

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

2008/4/11 Carol Lerche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Thank you for sharing this discussion.  Upon reading it I had two questions.
>
> Sugar.   I have seen offers on this list from a class ofuniversity graduate
> students to do usability testing.  Maybe someone responded to them
> privately.  (That would have been perfectly appropriate.)  But in reading
> the portion of the planning discussion about APIs and sugar, I was struck by
> the unstated assumption that the sugar interface is unquestionably a good
> thing.  Where is the usability testing with children of the age groups OLPC
> targets that proves that this is so, in comparison with a more conventional
> desktop model?  In watching 5-6 year olds use the interface for a week, I
> was struck by sugar's complexity in pursuit of simplicity.  It was a
> difficult interface for the children to learn.  Too many steps, including
> going among different screens.  Perhaps I am wrong.  But I would like to see
> the same care in usability testing for younger kids that has been given to
> ensuring that all the underlying components are written in Python and thus
> potentially modifiable by the oldest target audience.  Please point me to
> the usability studies I have missed.

http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/onusabilitytesting

Marco
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Notes from a Planning Session

[Morgan Collett]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:28 AM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > (APs in infrastructure mode) is what is happening
>  > on the ground mostly. Still, it's not good as it kills the
>  > mesh-to-the-school scheme which is one of the key technical goals.
>
>  This should be easy to fix.  Re-enable the NetworkManager code that
>  allows any laptop to gateway the mesh to the Internet.  This all used
>  to work in pre-B4 software, at least for USB Ethernet interfaces.  As
>  long as the wifi chip can simultaneously do meshing and register with
>  an access point (eth0 and msh0) then Internet access over a WiFi access
>  point should look the same to NetworkManager as a wired eth0.

IIRC the problem with this is that collaboration fails on the XO
acting as the gateway. See #3136, #2980 - and of course your own
#4641.

Morgan
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: [sugar] sugar roadmap

[Charles Merriam]

>  >  2. Need a really easy way to play music and video files including ones
>  >  w/ proprietary codecs. Kid finds mp3 file on the internet using browse,
>  >  kid double-clicks file. It should open with the activity that supports
>  >  that file type.
>  >
>  >  Use Case:
>  >  The kid should be able to access the same file again later from the
>  >  Journal and open up in the appropriate activity/player (should one be
>  >  loaded)
>  >
>  >  OLPC won't have to pre-load the proprietary codecs for this to work.
>  >  Leave that to deployment people like myself. just make it easy for us to
>  >  load them using mechanisms like the customization key.
>  >
>  >  Yes proprietary is bad but allowing kids to explore on their own -- an
>  >  essential aspect of constructionism -- is more important. We cut off
>  >  many avenues of exploration when we make it hard for them to access
>  >  content that happens to use proprietary codecs -- which is the majority
>  >  of interesting content on the Internet.
>  >
Reverse engineering a proprietary and changing codec is hard.  Most
codecs are protected by patents anyway, so no open source software can
exist that lets OLPC ship it.

>  >  2.1 The XO needs a rock-solid media player. To me this is as essential
>  >  as the Journal.
>
>  Rob Savoye says that if we could provide, find, recruit...a few
>  developers to finish the current Gnash roadmap, we would have it. I
>  haven't heard anybody step up. Why?
>

It's engineering, and it is hard.  And it is doomed.  Flash is in
constant proprietary development; Gnash can never be up to date.  If
you ever talk carefully to engineers, you would understand that they
prefer not to work on doomed projects for no pay.


There exist solutions to the Codec problem, and those solutions are
more in the Ubuntu/Redhat/Sun/Google arena than the OLPC arena.
>  --
>  Edward Cherlin

Charles
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: [OLPC library] Lieutenant Governor Pat Quinn on HB5000

[Yoshiki Ohshima]

At Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:10:45 -0700,
Edward Cherlin wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >   There was been strong Etoys experiment going in Illinois, especially
> >  at Columbia College and UIUC.
> 
> Excellent. Can you point us to some groups or individuals, or
> published documents, or whatever?

  The SqueakFest site from last a couple of years would be handy:

http://imamp.colum.edu/eceim/squeakfest07/
http://interactive.colum.edu/partners/squeakfest/

Carol Ann Stowe and Valerie Scarlata would be good contacts.

http://imamp.colum.edu/eceim/squeakfest07/contact.php

For people at UIUC, check out http://squeakcmi.org.

-- Yoshiki
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel