Re: [Announcement] Sugarizer v0.5 is available for your device
On 17.10.2014, at 08:25, Lionel Laské wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm proud to announce the fifth version (0.5) of Sugarizer, a taste of Sugar > for any device. > > http://sugarizer.org Very nice! > New Etoys activity (beta) I've made some good progress on this since you grabbed a copy, you may want to update :) http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/ There are quitSqueak() and onQuit() functions now which should make it easier for you to hook it up. See for example https://github.com/bertfreudenberg/SqueakJS/blob/master/benchmark/benchmark.js - Bert - smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-tablet development?
On 2013-08-14, at 05:02, Andrew McMillan wrote: > Andrew McMillan, > VP Software, > One Laptop per Child Association Inc. Hi Andrew, just noticed your new title. Congrats! Short of importing an XO Tablet (I don't live in the US), is there a way to look at your software? The existing documentation on the web is rather sparse. Specifically, I'm interested to learn what apps you have that let kids create something. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Issues from my 6-yr-old beta tester.
On 2013-03-05, at 03:24, Andrew Ruthven wrote: > On Mon, 2013-03-04 at 13:06 -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > >> He's also missing the top-right keycap from his crunchy keyboard. He >> was very vague about how exactly that happened... > > I discovered on the weekend that my 1yo has managed to pick off the J > key from an XO-1 and almost removed the ctrl key from a different XO-1. > He isn't allowed to touch them anymore... > > Cheers! http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_field_repairs - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Hacking onto the "appearing" and "hiding" of OSK
On 2013-01-28, at 19:16, Paul Fox wrote: > certainly not my call, but stealing keys which have always been > intended for activities to use seems like it shouldn't be done > lightly. +1 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [support-gang] [IAEP] XO-4 Questions After Viewing CES video
On 11.01.2013, at 16:32, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> >> On 11.01.2013, at 05:22, Paul Fox wrote: >> >>> bert wrote: On 10.01.2013, at 21:19, John Watlington wrote: >> More recent versions of the XO-4 touchscreen firmware should allow >> a many-finger keyboard. I hope someone with an XO-4 is working >> on a demo! Oh, I must have missed the announcement. How is the raw touch data exposed? >>> >>> sorry! a few releases of the touchscreen firmware ago, the max number >>> of touches quietly went from 2 to 4. full positioning is still only >>> accurate with just 2, but the touchscreen will attempt to keep track >>> of 4 if they're separable in at least one axis. so there's nothing >>> special for a program to do (i.e., no raw data to fetch). >>> >>> i haven't experimented with the feature much, but gonzalo has the >>> beginnings of a nice little piano playing activity floating around >>> somewhere. >> >> Ah, it does work indeed, see screenshot at >> >> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4611 > > for well-placed touches only. :-) (i'm actually a little surprised > that that screenshot worked.) > > paul Well, try the activity, it's actually kinda fun to confuse the system ;) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [support-gang] [IAEP] XO-4 Questions After Viewing CES video
On 11.01.2013, at 05:22, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> >> On 10.01.2013, at 21:19, John Watlington wrote: >> More recent versions of the XO-4 touchscreen firmware should allow a many-finger keyboard. I hope someone with an XO-4 is working on a demo! >> >> Oh, I must have missed the announcement. How is the raw touch data >> exposed? > > sorry! a few releases of the touchscreen firmware ago, the max number > of touches quietly went from 2 to 4. full positioning is still only > accurate with just 2, but the touchscreen will attempt to keep track > of 4 if they're separable in at least one axis. so there's nothing > special for a program to do (i.e., no raw data to fetch). > > i haven't experimented with the feature much, but gonzalo has the > beginnings of a nice little piano playing activity floating around > somewhere. Ah, it does work indeed, see screenshot at http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4611 Thanks! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] XO-4 Questions After Viewing CES video
On 10.01.2013, at 21:19, John Watlington wrote: > I don't know how to delete an entry from the Journal, do you ? In Sugar you can delete any Journal entry from its detail view. >> More recent versions of the XO-4 touchscreen firmware should allow >> a many-finger keyboard. I hope someone with an XO-4 is working on a demo! Oh, I must have missed the announcement. How is the raw touch data exposed? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 13.1.0 development build 18 released
On 2012-12-11, at 15:41, Daniel Drake wrote: > The Sugar welcome screen activates again on first boot. Not for me ... or maybe it's a different problem. Tried to olpc-update my new XO-4 (with XOrduino and XOstick boards! Yay!) from whatever came pre-installed. After restarting it flashed a new firmware (twice? didn't pay too much attention) and proceded to boot, blinking circle od dots, but that stopped at some point and it didn't do anything visible anymore. No mouse/keyboard/VT switching, so had to power-cycle. On second boot it was fine though, it asked for activity updates, which worked fine. I tried sound in Etoys and Scratch, which didn't work but just made a screetching noise (after turning up the volume). But Record does the same, and froze while trying to play back a recorded video, so maybe it's a wider problem. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Neonode low-level access
On 2012-11-08, at 17:01, Paul Fox wrote: > gonzalo wrote: >> Should be a a way to get this info, if not I don't know how this demo can >> work: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-C42PGoDqY >> >> I am more than interested to get the piano working > > i'll push harder on the vendor for this. > > paul The piano is exactly what I was thinking about :) - Bert - > >> >> Gonzalo >> >> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Gary Martin >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Bert, >>> >>> On 8 Nov 2012, at 14:38, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>> >>>> How can I get at low-level data from the XO-4's touch screen in Linux? >>> I'm thinking of the actual light levels of all the sensors around the edges. >>> >>> Unfortunately not at the moment, as far as I'm aware of (happy to be >>> proven wrong). It was on the feature design list at an early stage of the >>> dev cycle (so that we could implement things like a multi-touch piano) but >>> time went to the primary use case and no driver work was done exposing this >>> data, as far as I can tell. There are some parameters exposed under >>> /sys/module/zforce/parameters, but nothing like the light level data. >>> Perhaps something to push for in the next cycle? >>> >>> Regards, >>> --Gary >>> >>>> Certain apps could benefit from this - e.g. many of Neonode's own >>> impressive demos could not be implemented using only the X11 events I get >>> in Sugar. >>>> >>>> - Bert - >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Devel mailing list >>>> Devel@lists.laptop.org >>>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >>> >>> ___ >>> Devel mailing list >>> Devel@lists.laptop.org >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >>> >> part 2 text/plain 129 >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > =- > paul fox, p...@laptop.org > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Neonode low-level access
How can I get at low-level data from the XO-4's touch screen in Linux? I'm thinking of the actual light levels of all the sensors around the edges. Certain apps could benefit from this - e.g. many of Neonode's own impressive demos could not be implemented using only the X11 events I get in Sugar. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Multi-touch test activity
On 2012-11-06, at 23:50, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> Ah, thanks. I wasn't even going to file a bug report about the aliasing >> because that is a limitation inherent to the kind of sensor we have. > > There are of course limitations, but we are in the process of tuning > and tightening things on the IR. Okay. The breaking up of touch contacts was surprising. I attached a photo here: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/12282 > All sensor types have some forms of aliasing. If you know how, you can > confuse capacitive sensors too :-) Yep. You may find my updated activity version useful in testing: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4611/ I modified it to keep displaying the last touches. Single-touch works pretty well already, tweaking multi-touch sounds good :) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 13.1.0 development build 9 released
On 2012-11-05, at 20:03, Daniel Drake wrote: > On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> * olpc-update from 8 to 9 appeared to work fine > > Thanks for testing! > >> * after reboot it offered to update Sugar activities, I said yes, and it >> froze in the middle of updating Portfolio. There was an error in shell.log, >> pasted below >> * sshd is not working anymore, worked fine in os8. /var/log/messages says >> the private host key is not protected enough. It's group-readable by >> polkitd, is that new? > > Tickets for both of these would be appreciated. Both on the OLPC trac > (since the software updater is not mainline sugar, yet). Done: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/12272/ http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/12273/ - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 13.1.0 development build 9 released
On 2012-11-04, at 12:08, Peter Robinson wrote:
> A new 13.1.0 development build is available:
>
> http://build.laptop.org/13.1.0/os9
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/13.1.0
>
> - The some activity updates
> - XO-4 kernel work for 8787/mwifiex wireless, touchscreen improvement, and I
> believe some suspend/resume work
>
> Thanks for any testing and feedback!
* olpc-update from 8 to 9 appeared to work fine
* after reboot it offered to update Sugar activities, I said yes, and it froze
in the middle of updating Portfolio. There was an error in shell.log, pasted
below
* Browse fails to start, error log see below
* other activities work fine
* sshd is not working anymore, worked fine in os8. /var/log/messages says the
private host key is not protected enough. It's group-readable by polkitd, is
that new?
* cannot use ping as user olpc: icmp open socket: not permitted. Works fine as
root.
- Bert -
shell.log after updating activities error:
inflating:
/home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/ca/LC_MESSAGES/org.laptop.TurtleArtActivity.mo
inflating: /home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/ne/activity.linfo
inflating:
/home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/ne/LC_MESSAGES/org.laptop.TurtleArtActivity.mo
inflating: /home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/ug/activity.linfo
inflating:
/home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/ug/LC_MESSAGES/org.laptop.TurtleArtActivity.mo
inflating: /home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/bn/activity.linfo
inflating:
/home/olpc/Activities/TurtleArt.activity/locale/bn/LC_MESSAGES/org.laptop.TurtleArtActivity.mo
caution: excluded filename not matched: mimetype
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/share/sugar/extensions/cpsection/updater/model.py", line 478, in
refresh
refresh_existing(row)
File "/usr/share/sugar/extensions/cpsection/updater/model.py", line 397, in
refresh_existing
row[UPDATE_URL] = newurl
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/overrides/Gtk.py", line 1152, in
__setitem__
self.model.set_value(self.iter, key, value)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/overrides/Gtk.py", line 1053, in
set_value
Gtk.ListStore.set_value(self, treeiter, column, value)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/types.py", line 47, in function
return info.invoke(*args, **kwargs)
TypeError: Argument 3 does not allow None as a value
=
org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 160, in
main()
File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 155, in main
instance = create_activity_instance(activity_constructor, activity_handle)
File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 42, in create_activity_instance
activity = constructor(handle)
File "/home/olpc/Activities/Browse.activity/webactivity.py", line 153, in
__init__
activity.Activity.__init__(self, handle)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sugar3/activity/activity.py", line
269, in __init__
settings = Gtk.Settings.get_default()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/module.py", line 269, in __getattr__
return getattr(self._introspection_module, name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/module.py", line 193, in __getattr__
wrapper = metaclass(name, bases, dict_)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/types.py", line 243, in mro
return mro(cls)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/types.py", line 257, in mro
bases_of_subclasses += list(map(mro, C.__bases__)) + [list(C.__bases__)]
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/types.py", line 257, in mro
bases_of_subclasses += list(map(mro, C.__bases__)) + [list(C.__bases__)]
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gi/types.py", line 269, in mro
raise TypeError('Cannot create a consistent method resolution '
TypeError: Cannot create a consistent method resolution order (MRO)
Exited with status 1, pid 873 data (None, ', mode 'w' at
0xff16a8>, '7ee056e09f86d02fef3053a6919000c16009d1ca')
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Multi-touch test activity
Ah, thanks. I wasn't even going to file a bug report about the aliasing because that is a limitation inherent to the kind of sensor we have. Thinking about this a little bit more, only pinch/zoom will be fine. Rotation can still go in the wrong direction if the driver guesses the intersections wrongly. - Bert - On 2012-11-05, at 01:55, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: > See also http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/12161 > > Tony > >> Hi folks, >> >> I made a simple Sugar activity to test the XO-4's multi-touch screen: >> >> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4611/ >> >> It works fine most of the time. Sometimes the touch contact ends >> unexpectedly without lifting the finger. >> >> It also demonstrates that the Neonode sensor's two touch points are not >> independent: If you put down two fingers simultaneously, it does not know in >> which of the 4 possible positions the two fingers are (it only knows that 2 >> horizontal and 2 vertical beams got obstructed) and so it has to guess. >> Also, the tracking sometimes "switches over", e.g. when doing a pinch-zoom >> using your right hand. >> >> For activity developers this means that pinch/zoom and rotation gestures >> will work fine, but we cannot rely on truly independent touch tracking. >> >> Also, two-finger sweeps are not always recognized as two fingers if they are >> held close together. >> >> Nonetheless, it is fun to play with if you happen to have an XO-4 Touch :) >> >> Source code: >> >> http://git.sugarlabs.org/testmultitouch/mainline >> >> Patches welcome, but I want to keep the source simple, this is not going to >> become another Paint activity. >> >> - Bert - >> >> PS: Could some admin please delete the accidental non-mainline repo in >> http://git.sugarlabs.org/testmultitouch/ ? Keep "mainline", remove >> "testmultitouch". Thanks. > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Multi-touch test activity
Hi folks, I made a simple Sugar activity to test the XO-4's multi-touch screen: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4611/ It works fine most of the time. Sometimes the touch contact ends unexpectedly without lifting the finger. It also demonstrates that the Neonode sensor's two touch points are not independent: If you put down two fingers simultaneously, it does not know in which of the 4 possible positions the two fingers are (it only knows that 2 horizontal and 2 vertical beams got obstructed) and so it has to guess. Also, the tracking sometimes "switches over", e.g. when doing a pinch-zoom using your right hand. For activity developers this means that pinch/zoom and rotation gestures will work fine, but we cannot rely on truly independent touch tracking. Also, two-finger sweeps are not always recognized as two fingers if they are held close together. Nonetheless, it is fun to play with if you happen to have an XO-4 Touch :) Source code: http://git.sugarlabs.org/testmultitouch/mainline Patches welcome, but I want to keep the source simple, this is not going to become another Paint activity. - Bert - PS: Could some admin please delete the accidental non-mainline repo in http://git.sugarlabs.org/testmultitouch/ ? Keep "mainline", remove "testmultitouch". Thanks. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: q7b04
That worked, thanks! I hadn't noticed the OFW prompt still worked. And it's the second command (I 'dir'ed before). - Bert - On 2012-11-02, at 16:32, Paul Fox wrote: > there's another copy of the firmware in the root filesystem that's > being checked for auto-updating, and it's out-of-date, and we changed > the format. > > at the ok prompt, run: >ok delete int:\boot\bootfw.zip >ok delete int:\boot\bootfw4.zip > > only one of those two commands will be successful -- i believe the > second one. (but since i can't remember for sure the name of the > offending file, i'm suggesting you run both. :-) > > paul > > bert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just flashed my 4B1 to q7b04 (from q7b01), it seemed to finish normally, >> rebooted, now it's bricked - "Invalid Firmware image, powering off in 30 >> secs". >> >> Any idea what could be wrong? The machine seemed to work fine before. >> >> Also, I gave away my serial adapter, can only get it back after the weekend, >> is there another way to get it working again? >> >> - Bert - >> >> >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > =- > paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
q7b04
Hi, I just flashed my 4B1 to q7b04 (from q7b01), it seemed to finish normally, rebooted, now it's bricked - "Invalid Firmware image, powering off in 30 secs". Any idea what could be wrong? The machine seemed to work fine before. Also, I gave away my serial adapter, can only get it back after the weekend, is there another way to get it working again? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Engadget post on XO Touch
On 26.07.2012, at 20:21, Mike Lee wrote: > Here's a cool demo of the Neonode multitouch frame: > > http://www.slashgear.com/neonode-3d-touch-headed-to-tablets-and-phones-hands-on-28215933/ > > Not only multi-touch, but also entry direction and tilt. For a dollar! Well, for tilt you would need to stack multiple frames on top of each other as they did in that prototype. For a touch-screen you would want it to be as thin as possible, that would mean single-layer. The Kindle Touch and Nook use Neonode zForce touch sensors, too. Here's a nice animation showing the principle: http://www.neonode.com/solutions/zforce Does anyone know how the multi-touch stuff is going to be exposed in Linux? - Bert - > > Seems like this would be great as a retrofit kit. > > Mike > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > www.engadget.com/2012/07/26/olpc-xo-touch-1-75-to-use-neonode-tech/ > > The post says "as yet unreleased XO 1.75". What's the official status > on the 1.75? Still as yet unreleased? > > cheers, > Sameer ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Developer XO laptop loan or buy - Speakeasy project
On 2012-06-13, at 17:37, Lester Leong wrote: > Scott - could you point me in the right direction as far as a good > JS/HTML5 framework? I've only ever done node.js to interface with > DB's, and that's on the server side. I'm assuming you're talking about > application frameworks. The "Lively Kernel" is a JS/HTML5 environment very much in the spirit of Sugar: http://www.lively-kernel.org/ It allows you to examine and extend the code right inside your web browser. Works on iPad, too. > As far as obtaining an XO, I may just end up purchasing an XO unit > from ebay, although I only saw XO-1's there. That may be good enough > to get going right away, as the it may take several weeks to ship when > going through the Contributors program. As others pointed out, you can download Sugar today and get going right away: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 11.3.1 release candidate 2 (build 885) released
On 30.05.2012, at 22:26, Martin Langhoff wrote: > We're pleased to announce our second release candidate of our > 11.3.1 software release. > > This RC supports XO-1, XO-1.5 and XO-1.75. > > Information and installation instructions can be found here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/11.3.1 > > Quick links for those who know which files need to be grabbed and save > to USB disks: > > http://download.laptop.org/xo-1/os/candidate/885/ > http://download.laptop.org/xo-1.5/os/candidate/885/ > http://download.laptop.org/xo-1.75/os/candidate/885/ > > This is a signed release candidate that can be installed on all XOs, > even those with security enabled. > > We're looking for testing and feedback on all aspects of the system. > Thanks for any help you can offer, and for all the feedback that was > received throughout development. > > Please review the "Known problems" section of the release notes. Some > documented issues are carried over from previous releases, but others > are new. > > > regards, Should have been obvious but took me a while to figure out: sudo olpc-update candidate_xo1-885 (although, judging by the previous absence of the candidate build on the rsync server I was the first to successfully try) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: legousbtower kernel module
On 13.05.2012, at 17:08, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > Yay, copying over from /boot was all that's needed :) > > And plugging in the Lego tower loads the module, and creates a > /dev/usb/legousbtower0 entry. (this appears to be something else than nqc's > udev rule expects, but I don't want to use nqc anyway) > > So, one step closer :) And it works! The only thing left to get lejos working was adjusting the dev permissions (would be good to add a general udev rule I guess) and installing java. My son just made the RCX display "Hello world" :) Thanks all, and particularly Paul! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: legousbtower kernel module
On 13.05.2012, at 02:37, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> On 07.05.2012, at 19:05, Paul Fox wrote: >> >>> bert wrote: On 07.05.2012, at 18:19, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm trying to connect a LEGO RCX via the RCX 2.0 USB Tower. When >> plugging it >> in, it gets listed with name and vendor in the messages log. >> >> However, /dev/usb/lego0 is not created. The corresponding udev rule is >> installed by Fedora's "nqc" rpm, but it relies on the "legousbtower" >> kernel >> module. >> >> AFAICT, it does not work because legousbtower.ko is missing. >> >> This is both on an XO-1.5 (11.3.0) and a 1.75 (11.3.1). The latter at >> least >> creates an entry in /dev while plugged in, but it's a generic usb one. >> On the >> former I don't see any dev node created when plugging in. >> >> Am I doing something wrong, or is it really just that the OLPC kernel is >> missing that module? If so, where can I get it? Or do I have to try compiling >> myself? > > i think the kernel is really missing that module. i'd never heard > of it until just now. > > i'll see if we can get an rpm built for 11.3.0 and 11.3.1. (and 12.1.0) > > paul Awesome! But the driver is in the regular kernel sources, right? Just not configured to be built? >>> >>> yes. >>> >>> paul >>> =- >>> paul fox, p...@laptop.org >> >> I installed (rpm -Uvh) this kernel on top of 883: >> >> http://rpmdropbox.laptop.org/f14-xo1.5/kernel-2.6.35.13_xo1.5-20120508.1139.olpc.eb0c7a8.i586.rpm >> >> It booted fine, but the touchpad does not work, keyboard does, network does >> not, lego tower does not. >> >> Should I have done this differently? Any advice how to diagnose this, and >> get the machine working correctly again? >> >> Thanks! > > did you "cp -a /boot/* /bootpart/boot/" ? our kernel rpms still > have this "feature" where not quite all the right pieces are put > in place. that might nor might not be the entire problem -- i hope > so. > > (you might try "uname -a" and see if the kernel you ended up booting > matches the above rpm.) > > i won't be able to test myself until monday, so you if you simply > want a working machine, go to /bootpart/boot and redirect the vmlinuz > symlink back to the original kernel, and reboot. > > paul > =- > paul fox, p...@laptop.org Yay, copying over from /boot was all that's needed :) And plugging in the Lego tower loads the module, and creates a /dev/usb/legousbtower0 entry. (this appears to be something else than nqc's udev rule expects, but I don't want to use nqc anyway) So, one step closer :) Thanks! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: legousbtower kernel module
On 07.05.2012, at 19:05, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> >> On 07.05.2012, at 18:19, Paul Fox wrote: >> >>> bert wrote: Hi, I'm trying to connect a LEGO RCX via the RCX 2.0 USB Tower. When plugging it in, it gets listed with name and vendor in the messages log. However, /dev/usb/lego0 is not created. The corresponding udev rule is installed by Fedora's "nqc" rpm, but it relies on the "legousbtower" kernel module. AFAICT, it does not work because legousbtower.ko is missing. This is both on an XO-1.5 (11.3.0) and a 1.75 (11.3.1). The latter at least creates an entry in /dev while plugged in, but it's a generic usb one. On >> the former I don't see any dev node created when plugging in. Am I doing something wrong, or is it really just that the OLPC kernel is missing that module? If so, where can I get it? Or do I have to try >> compiling myself? >>> >>> i think the kernel is really missing that module. i'd never heard >>> of it until just now. >>> >>> i'll see if we can get an rpm built for 11.3.0 and 11.3.1. (and 12.1.0) >>> >>> paul >> >> Awesome! But the driver is in the regular kernel sources, right? Just not >> configured to be built? > > yes. > > paul > =- > paul fox, p...@laptop.org I installed (rpm -Uvh) this kernel on top of 883: http://rpmdropbox.laptop.org/f14-xo1.5/kernel-2.6.35.13_xo1.5-20120508.1139.olpc.eb0c7a8.i586.rpm It booted fine, but the touchpad does not work, keyboard does, network does not, lego tower does not. Should I have done this differently? Any advice how to diagnose this, and get the machine working correctly again? Thanks! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: legousbtower kernel module
On 08.05.2012, at 20:09, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: >> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Bert Freudenberg >> wrote: >>> However, /dev/usb/lego0 is not created. The corresponding udev rule is >>> installed by Fedora's "nqc" rpm, but it relies on the "legousbtower" kernel >>> module. >>> >>> Am I doing something wrong, or is it really just that the OLPC kernel is >>> missing that module? If so, where can I get it? Or do I have to try >>> compiling myself? >> >> I just added it for the next 12.1.0 build. >> >> Thanks >> Daniel >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > I can talk to NXT and WeDo without the kernel mode... just some udev > rules as per: > > https://github.com/itdaniher/WeDoMore/tree/master/udev > > I think these rules are already in place??? (haven't tested on 12.x.x) RCX 1.0 = Infrared via serial (launched 1998) RCX 2.0 = Infrared via USB tower (2001) NXT = Bluetooth (2006) WeDO = USB (2009) The "legousbtower" module is needed for the RCX 2.0 Infrared Tower. Including a udev rule might be a good idea though. Currently it is provided by the "nqc" rpm. OTOH, there is no Sugar activity that uses the RCX, AFAIK. Worse, I don't even know any graphical Linux application to talk to the RCX. Do you? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: legousbtower kernel module
On 07.05.2012, at 18:19, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm trying to connect a LEGO RCX via the RCX 2.0 USB Tower. When plugging it >> in, it gets listed with name and vendor in the messages log. >> >> However, /dev/usb/lego0 is not created. The corresponding udev rule is >> installed by Fedora's "nqc" rpm, but it relies on the "legousbtower" kernel >> module. >> >> AFAICT, it does not work because legousbtower.ko is missing. >> >> This is both on an XO-1.5 (11.3.0) and a 1.75 (11.3.1). The latter at least >> creates an entry in /dev while plugged in, but it's a generic usb one. On >> the >> former I don't see any dev node created when plugging in. >> >> Am I doing something wrong, or is it really just that the OLPC kernel is >> missing that module? If so, where can I get it? Or do I have to try >> compiling >> myself? > > i think the kernel is really missing that module. i'd never heard > of it until just now. > > i'll see if we can get an rpm built for 11.3.0 and 11.3.1. (and 12.1.0) > > paul Awesome! But the driver is in the regular kernel sources, right? Just not configured to be built? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
legousbtower kernel module
Hi, I'm trying to connect a LEGO RCX via the RCX 2.0 USB Tower. When plugging it in, it gets listed with name and vendor in the messages log. However, /dev/usb/lego0 is not created. The corresponding udev rule is installed by Fedora's "nqc" rpm, but it relies on the "legousbtower" kernel module. AFAICT, it does not work because legousbtower.ko is missing. This is both on an XO-1.5 (11.3.0) and a 1.75 (11.3.1). The latter at least creates an entry in /dev while plugged in, but it's a generic usb one. On the former I don't see any dev node created when plugging in. Am I doing something wrong, or is it really just that the OLPC kernel is missing that module? If so, where can I get it? Or do I have to try compiling myself? Thanks! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Trac slowness diagnosis
On 30.03.2012, at 05:42, Paul Fox wrote: > saadia husain baloch wrote: >> One question: How does the assignee field correspond to an email address? >> Did all those 5500 alias have a @laptop.org address? > > there's no requirement that someone have a laptop.org address in order > to be a bug assignee, if that's what you're asking. (at least, i hope > not.) Yep. Trac username is independent of email address, and it's often not a l.o address. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 OpenFirmware serial terminal
On 29.03.2012, at 08:07, James Cameron wrote: > I agree with Mitch, the size of it is insignificant. Even without any > tuning and integration with existing code, the dictionary only grows by > about 2400 bytes for the 5248 byte source file. > > If you think it will be useful, we can add it. Seems rather useful. And a "dumb" crossover cable is way easier to make than finding a serial adaptor. Serial communication is supposed to be simple. It seems so obvious in retrospect that one has to wonder why this hasn't been in from the beginning ;) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Multi-laptop naming scheme for build files
Why not use the extension to identify the hardware, and the file name part for the software? This is already partially true - .zd2, .zd4, .zd8 refer to hardware configurations. Could as well be 3z4 for a 4 GB XO-1.5, and 5z8 for an 8 GB XO-1.75. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Powertrekk - a fuel cell charger...
On 05.03.2012, at 00:39, Sameer Verma wrote: > Saw this on G+ http://www.powertrekk.com/ Looks interesting. 1 Fuel Puck = 33 g, 4 Wh 1 AA Alkaline = 24 g, 2.6 Wh (*) Not bad for a first-gen device. 3 x Fuel Puck = 99g, 12 Wh, $12 4 x AA = 96g, 10.4 Wh The website is still a bit light on technical details, though. - Bert - (*) http://www.allaboutbatteries.com/Energy-tables.html ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 11.3.1 development build 29 for XO-1.75
On 02.03.2012, at 18:49, Martin Langhoff wrote: > Upgrade online with: > > olpc-update 11.3.1_xo1.75-28 That should be olpc-update 11.3.1_xo1.75-29 and yes it works (from os28) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Scratch Recording
I'd think recording and playback are independent from Squeak's point of view. But then, I'm much more familiar with the internals of Etoys than Scratch so who knows ... let's discuss on IRC. - Bert - On 24.02.2012, at 17:14, Saadia Husain Baloch wrote: > I meant 1.75 not 1.5! > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Saadia Husain Baloch > wrote: > Hello Bert, > I am hoping you can help me track down an audio recording problem with our > new audio driver on XO1.5. This affects Scratch and eToys, so I presume the > Squeak library is involved. > The specific scenarios are as follows (after a fresh boot) > > 1. Start Scratch. Select the Sound Tab in the center column. > Click the "Record" button next to New Sound. > Click red record button in the Sound Recorder window. Mic light goes on. > Recording begins. Click stop button in Sound Recorder window. Recording > stops, Mic light goes off. > This is a successful recording sequence. > > 2. Start Scratch. Play the default meow sound. > Select the Sound Tab in the center column. > Click the "Record" button next to New Sound. The Mic Light goes on at > this time (too early, actual recording has not been initiated yet). > Click red record button in Sound Recorder window. Mic light is still on. > You can not stop recording with the stop button. > Mic light will not go off, and you can't play any sounds until you exit > Scratch. > There is some difference in the recording sequence in this scenario. > > I need to know the difference in the audio controls being used in the two > scenarios. It could be that a control in the driver is doing something > different than expected. > > Thank you > -Saadia Baloch > > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC New Zealand] OLPC XO-3 on slashdot front page right now
On 09.01.2012, at 13:38, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Tom Parker wrote: >> On Sun, 2012-01-08 at 08:56 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >>> I agree with your "pragmatic argument", but... I am almost certain >>> that what is being demoed on the XO-3.0 at CES is in fact Sugar >>> running on Fedora. >> >> It looks to be all Sugar so far: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1238R-QY31E >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBin1tc4T5c >> >> Does the XO-3 have multitouch? Not knowing anything about where gnome >> and sugar are going with tablet support, the first thing I think of is >> the macbook touchpad gestures. Could they translate onto a tablet? That >> could preserve the pointer-click-drag-scroll paradigm? >> > > Hadn't seen the 2nd video yet. Alas Ed is showing some older versions > of some of the activities (I'd made some changes to Turtle Art for > example so that the toolbars fit on the smaller display and you can > change numeric values w/o a keyboard. Still no complaints about seeing > Sugar!! How is Ed bringing up the Sugar frame? There appears to be no physical button at all (except for power). Anyway, kudos to the engineers and designers! Love the 4:3 screen :) Not to mention 2 Watts and rear-camera and multiple charging options etc. ... now it's just ASMOP to make it awesome ;) Looks like I need to revisit the Etoys tablet port ... - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 11.3.1 build 15 released for XO-1.75
On 01.12.2011, at 05:36, Martin Langhoff wrote: > Download from: > > http://build.laptop.org/11.3.1/os15/ > Would be nice if you could make the server report a more sensible content type for .zd* files: http://build.laptop.org/11.3.1/os15/xo1.75/os15.zd4 HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 10:39:33 GMT Server: Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 SVN/1.4.6 proxy_html/3.0.0 mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/1.3 Python/2.5.2 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8 Last-Modified: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 04:22:29 GMT ETag: "4d40c15-2da57012-4b300334e8b40" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 765816850 Keep-Alive: timeout=15, max=300 Connection: Keep-Alive Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
On 24.11.2011, at 17:23, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> >> So I would rather not add that extra step "below 0". > > okay, i'm fine with that -- i was on the fence. but i think you and > gary are saying two slightly different things. > > you're saying that the manual keypresses shouldn't have an intermediate > "level 0 in color" step. gary's saying that auto-turnoff should go > to level 0 in mono. i'm happy to agree with you. i don't think i'm > ready to agree with gary. > > reason for not agreeing with gary: the switch from color to mono and > back is very noticeable when you're in bright sunlight. the > auto-turnoff should be designed to be as transparent to the user as > possible. there will be times when the auto-turnoff won't do quite > the right thing -- perhaps your hands are shading the sensor > momentarily, or perhaps your laptop was sleeping when you came > outside, and the auto-turnoff won't take effect until your first > keystroke wakes it up. in those cases i think the auto-turnoff should > stay in color mode. > > paul I agree with you, but I thought Gary was referring to the brightness keys, too. I interpreted his message as "automatically switch to mono when the user sets brightness to 0", which is not what is in os12 right now, but will be reinstated as per this discussion. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
On 24.11.2011, at 16:09, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> Today is a sunny day in cold Germany, unlike in the first half of the week. >> So >> I took the 1.75 outside. >> >> IMHO the auto-off is fine as implemented in os12. Not distracting at all. >> Someone suggested turning it back on quicker, I tried that (replaced >> brightness_ramp with set_brightness), but that was much less nice. >> >> As I said previously I like the new mono toggle using the brightness keys >> with >> ctrl. >> >> But I also like the switch to mono when turning the brightness down >> manually. >> Much more convenient (and way more discoverable) than having to remember the >> ctrl-modifier. So I added those two lines back just as they were before, and >> it >> works fine. I would find it a foolish consistency to drop this just because >> automatic switch-off doesn't do it. > > okay, sold. > > i did have a very brief chance to play with the laptop in the sun two > days ago, and after trying more varied types of content, i better > appreciate the value of mono mode. it's sunny here today, so i hope > to get to play with it some more myself. > > i've implemented what a couple of people suggested for brightness key > behavior: (haven't seen that yet in your git repo) > - reducing brightness manually to level 0 remains colored (unlike >past releases, where level 0 also implied mono). > > - hitting "brightness down" one more time when at level 0 will >switch to mono. users that use auto-repeat to get there probably >won't see a difference. Not needed, see below. > - alt-brightness-down goes to level-0 in mono mode, as it always did. >i think it's a coin-toss whether it should go to level-0 in mono or >level-0 in color. (thoughts?) Mono. > - "brightness up" from level 0 (whether from the color or mono >version of level 0) will always go to level 1, and restore color. > > - sunlight-driven auto-turnoff will go all the way to 0, but won't >invoke mono mode. > > bert, i think you approved of the idea of this scheme on irc, please let > me know if you still think so. > > paul I now think having two zero-brightness settings (crisp / blurred) does not make sense for general usage. +1 to what Gary wrote in his followup. For those who want to play with that we have ctrl-brightness-down/up to toggle blurryness ;) So I would rather not add that extra step "below 0". - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
Today is a sunny day in cold Germany, unlike in the first half of the week. So I took the 1.75 outside. IMHO the auto-off is fine as implemented in os12. Not distracting at all. Someone suggested turning it back on quicker, I tried that (replaced brightness_ramp with set_brightness), but that was much less nice. As I said previously I like the new mono toggle using the brightness keys with ctrl. But I also like the switch to mono when turning the brightness down manually. Much more convenient (and way more discoverable) than having to remember the ctrl-modifier. So I added those two lines back just as they were before, and it works fine. I would find it a foolish consistency to drop this just because automatic switch-off doesn't do it. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
On 21.11.2011, at 18:06, Paul Fox wrote: > bert wrote: >> On 21.11.2011, at 15:22, Paul Fox wrote: >> >>> it quickly became clear (to me, at least) that it would be confusing >>> if user-dimming behaved differently than auto-backlight-control, with >>> respect to monochrome mode. whether or not it's confusing to the >>> user, it's definitely confusing to the code, since it's difficult to >>> always do the right thing if the user and the sensor are both changing >>> the brightness at the same time. so i disabled the switch to >>> monochrome entirely -- using the brightness keys doesn't change the >>> color/mono setting. >> >> IMHO (and not having tried it yet) the current behavior (switching >> to mono when manually reducing brightness) is fine, and the best >> compromise we found so far. > > have we actually tried anything else? the coupling of monochrome to > brightness has been this way forever, as far as i know. I remember the command line interface, and some GUI tool with checkboxes. Admittedly that's from before the XO-1 was even mass-produced. But I do remember discussing how the keyboard control should work. > honestly, i'm surprised people consider this coupling to be so > important. I personally would like to have a way to toggle it on and off all the time, independent of backlight brightness. I'm just saying coupling it to the brightness control is a brilliantly simple way to make it work for users who aren't even aware of the details. > given how subtle the difference between color and mono > modes with the backlight off, i really doubt most users would even > notice the change. To me it's striking how much sharper the image gets all of a sudden. But then I do have a graphics background and am a hobby-typophile. Most users wouldn't consciously notice the change, agreed. But that's not the same as saying it doesn't matter. >> When you add the auto-turnoff, it should only toggle the backlight, >> not the mono-color setting. I don't think that would be too >> confusing, from a user's POV it just means when it's bright >> outside, the backlight's power gets cut. >> >> I can see how it would lead to confusion if you map this desired >> behavior onto the existing olpc-brightness command. What's needed >> I think is an additional "override" independent of the brightness >> setting that just turns the backlight off. Everything else would >> stay the same. > > it's not that easy. unless neither brightness mechanism messes with > the mono setting, then they need to be coupled somehow. otherwise > if the backlight is auto-offed (still color), then the user uses the > "dim" key (no brightness change, but now mono), and then the backlight > auto-ons, it will now be in mono. That's not what I had in mind. Taking your example, the display would not auto-on since the user explicitly set it to off. Auto-off should be completely independent of the user adjusting the brightness. E.g.: Brightness is set to 10. User goes outside, ambient sensor overrides, turning backlight off. User presses brightness-down, level is set to 9. Backlight is still overridden due to ambient light. User goes inside, ambient override stops, backlight comes back on at level 9. See what I mean? The user shouldn't have to care about the ambient light sensor turning off the display. All the controls would still work the same. Just like on older XOs. > do you also object to the new color/mono toggle, via the control > key (or via the UI)? Not at all. > please try os12, when available, and see how it feels. > > paul Will do. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
On 21.11.2011, at 15:22, Paul Fox wrote: > it quickly became clear (to me, at least) that it would be confusing > if user-dimming behaved differently than auto-backlight-control, with > respect to monochrome mode. whether or not it's confusing to the > user, it's definitely confusing to the code, since it's difficult to > always do the right thing if the user and the sensor are both changing > the brightness at the same time. so i disabled the switch to > monochrome entirely -- using the brightness keys doesn't change the > color/mono setting. IMHO (and not having tried it yet) the current behavior (switching to mono when manually reducing brightness) is fine, and the best compromise we found so far. When you add the auto-turnoff, it should only toggle the backlight, not the mono-color setting. I don't think that would be too confusing, from a user's POV it just means when it's bright outside, the backlight's power gets cut. I can see how it would lead to confusion if you map this desired behavior onto the existing olpc-brightness command. What's needed I think is an additional "override" independent of the brightness setting that just turns the backlight off. Everything else would stay the same. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
On 21.11.2011, at 15:48, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 21.11.2011, at 15:29, Walter Bender wrote: > >> Paul, >> >> Unless the display design is different than it was in 2007, then there >> is no way to decouple turning off the backlight and going into >> monochrome. Also, turning on the backlight adds color back (although >> the amount of color vs monochrome in the mix is a function of the >> backlight vs ambient-light levels. So I am not sure we could implement >> your proposal with the current hardware. >> >> -walter > > This is about switching the DCON's hardware anti-aliasing. OLPC has started > to refer to that as "color vs monochrome" mode (presumably because it's hard > to explain to others why you would or would not want AA). > > Here's how it works: > http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7050 > > - Bert - Err, and the color-averaging I always tend to forget about. The DCON selects either just a single color component for a pixel (color mode) or combines red, green, and blue into a per-pixel value (monochrome mode). In early hw versions this could be toggled separately from the anti-aliasing, while in MP hardware those two were combined IIUC. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] automatic backlight control
On 21.11.2011, at 15:29, Walter Bender wrote: > Paul, > > Unless the display design is different than it was in 2007, then there > is no way to decouple turning off the backlight and going into > monochrome. Also, turning on the backlight adds color back (although > the amount of color vs monochrome in the mix is a function of the > backlight vs ambient-light levels. So I am not sure we could implement > your proposal with the current hardware. > > -walter This is about switching the DCON's hardware anti-aliasing. OLPC has started to refer to that as "color vs monochrome" mode (presumably because it's hard to explain to others why you would or would not want AA). Here's how it works: http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7050 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 relative performance
On 02.11.2011, at 13:59, Sascha Silbe wrote: > Excerpts from C. Scott Ananian's message of 2011-11-02 05:58:42 +0100: > >> A pure-CPU benchmark (maybe something in Pippy?) would be a little >> more reliable. > > === Begin facspeed.py === > #!/usr/bin/env python > import time > > def factorial(n): >result = 1 >while n > 1: >result *= n >n -= 1 >return result > > n = 10 > start_time = time.time() > factorial(n) > time_diff = time.time() - start_time > > print '%d! computed in %.3fs' % (n, time_diff) > === End facspeed.py === > > > SystemSoC/CPU OS + arch time > XO-1.75 Armada 610 @ 0.8GHz Debian armel199.108s > XO-1.5VIA C7-M @ 1GHz Debian i386 199.285s > OpenRD88F6281 @ 1.2GHzDebian armel181.277s > Desktop PCAthlon BE-2300 @ 1.9GHz Debian amd64 34.180s > > > I must admit I'm surprised by the result. sup (my MUA of choice) feels > much slower on XO-1.75 than on XO-1.5 - and that's even though dstat > reports higher SD card write throughput (with a different card). Maybe I > should do some side-by-side comparisons. According to "0 tinyBenchmarks" in Squeak Etoys (which estimates bytecodes/sec and message sends/sec), the 1.75 is about 10% faster than the 1.5. Both were running os883. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: booting issue with xo-1.75
On 04.09.2011, at 18:33, carcellelist wrote: > Dear xo developers, > > i received a xo-175 a few days ago and i got it to partially boot from the > uart > interface with the serial adapter (using "boot" at the firmware "ok" prompt) > but i get > stuck here : > ... > [ 647.362835] mmc2: no vmmc regulator found > [ 647.370325] mmc2: SDHCI controller on MMC [sdhci-pxa.2] using DMA > [ 647.381468] drivers/usb/core/inode.c: creating file '002' > [ 647.392072] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbhid > [ 647.401205] usbhid: USB HID core driver > > Is anyone experiencing the same issue ? am i missing something during the > boot ? You need to flash a newer firmware. This is explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_1.75_11089_Fix For more info on the XO-1.75, read http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_1.75_B1 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Q4B08.rom works in debricking too 1.75 B1
On 03.09.2011, at 09:17, James Cameron wrote: > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 11:39:47PM -0700, Cherry Withers wrote: >> I don't know if this was verified already or not, but it seems to work >> so far. > > Thanks, you've been brave. The worst outcome would have been a brick. > Q4B08 isn't that far different from Q4B06, but as the amount of change > increases the risk will increase, so I really don't recommend testing a > new version unless you have the electronics equipment available for > reprogramming of the SPI FLASH chip. Q4B09 is due within a few days, > but again I don't plan to test it against this problem. I used q4b08 too, not being aware that later versions might be detrimental. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New tool for tracking L10n commits
On 02.09.2011, at 18:14, Chris Leonard wrote:
> Bert,
>
> Would it be possible to limit what gets sent to
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/pootle-commits to only those
> commits made by user Pootle?
>
> I do not want to flood the list with every eToys commit, only those
> from user Pootle.
It only forwards those in the Etoys po/ directory, no other Etoys commits.
> In addition, Aleksey modified the subject coming from git to the format
>
> Commit to [chat] by [anderson861.] for [mn]
>
> The first bracketed entry is the po file name, the second is the
> lang-admin using the commit priv and the third is the language code.
> This makes it easy t ovisually scan the subject lines, as well as t
> ocopy paste from the message list and parse it with a spreadsheet.
I can prefix it by "Commit to [etoys]" but the rest of the subject is just the
first line of the log message ("Commit from Sugar Labs: Translation System by
user cjl.: 7 of 7 messages translated (0 fuzzy).")
That is, unless someone can come up with a more suitable post-commit hook
invocation than this:
svnnotify \
--repos-path "$REPOS" \
--revision "$REV" \
--from comm...@etoys.squeak.org \
--to-email-map '^trunk/po/'=pootle-comm...@lists.sugarlabs.org \
--subject-prefix 'Commit to [etoys]' \
--header 'Repository: http://etoys.squeak.org/svn' \
--attach-diff \
--max-diff-length 5
- Bert -
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Re: [Sugar-devel] New tool for tracking L10n commits
On 02.09.2011, at 15:57, Chris Leonard wrote: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/pootle-commits > Please note that > because eToys is hosted in it's own repository, this system will not > report commits from eToys at the moment. Pootle commits for Etoys are sent to http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-notify I just added pootle-commits@l.s.o as recipient, so they should appear there, too. You would have to add commits@e.s.o to the sender filter. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Light sensor on XO-1.75
On 30.08.2011, at 01:38, Richard Smith wrote: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> On 17.08.2011, at 17:24, Martin Langhoff wrote: >>> Saadia Baloch (4): >>> Driver to read Outdoor Light Sensor from EC on OLPC. >> >> So this is exposed at >> >>/sys/devices/platform/olpc-ols.0/power_state >> >> And it seems to sit "behind" the blinking left-most LED? And the blink rate >> is proportional to the light sensed? Why? > > Its proportional because that's how the sensor works. The amount of > light changes the time to bleed off the charge stored in the diode > when you reverse bias it. Ah, so you use the LED itself to sense light? And then time how long a cycle takes in the EC? Awesome design! This almost takes the cake over the analog mic hack. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Light sensor on XO-1.75
On 17.08.2011, at 17:24, Martin Langhoff wrote: > Saadia Baloch (4): > Driver to read Outdoor Light Sensor from EC on OLPC. So this is exposed at /sys/devices/platform/olpc-ols.0/power_state And it seems to sit "behind" the blinking left-most LED? And the blink rate is proportional to the light sensed? Why? > Add compass driver for LSM303DLH. > xo_175_defconfig: Enable magnetometer/compass. > olpc-xo-1-75.c: Add compass support Is the compass exposed, too? Is there a list of all the sensors and how to access them somewhere? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Accelerometer (was: New prototype XO-1.75s in Auckland, New Zealand)
On 25.08.2011, at 07:47, James Cameron wrote: > On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 03:22:06PM +1000, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: >>> I don't know enough about Turtle Blocks to comment, but if an >>> application such as Turtle Blocks tries to read the sensor, it will >>> probably block for as long as it takes for the transaction to complete >>> ... roughly 33 milliseconds. >>> >> >> I am getting 60mS per read in Turtle Blocks > > On an XO-1.73 A3, I saw 25 reads per second, which would have been 40mS > per read. > > On an XO-1.75 B1, I get between 17.07 and 18.22 reads per second in > /runin/runin-accelerometer with os40. That would be 59mS to 55mS. A shell script needs 6.7 seconds to read it 100 times. That's 67 ms, B1 on os41. In any case it's fun to use, I made a little Etoys project to try: http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2011/08/squeak-etoys-on-arm-based-xo-175.html (and in Etoys each read takes about 65 ms). - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: C\C++ & SDL
On 07.08.2011, at 20:02, mustafa nematallah wrote: > Hi > > > i think OLPC should support programming in C\C++ You can write Sugar activities in any language that has D-Bus and X11 bindings: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Low-level_Activity_API What else do you think OLPC should do to "support" C or C++? > i'm sure many students can learn to program C++\C and SDL on XO laptops > > > if you need i can start some simple tuts on SDL and C++ for the OLPC and i > can try to help port an IDE for C\C++\Python\etc too > > > > > another thing > > > i think AMDs new fusion processors can help make XOs better as they are quite > cheap, consume less power (and give less heat) and also they dont need a > northbridge as they contain the Graphics chip and memory controller OLPC is currently working on the ARM-based XO-1.75, using much less power than Fusion: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-1.75 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: *.laptop.org issues
On 06.07.2011, at 23:42, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Jul 06 2011, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: >> I'm not sure this is a devel issue, so apologies for any "pollution". >> >> I too had problems downloading os871 and accessing lists.laptop.org all past >> week. >> It has nothing to do with the service provider, since I was traveling >> and I had this issue in 2 countries and 4 different locations in >> Europe non on Vodafone/Verizon network. >> Today everything looks OK with *.laptol.org >> >> However, (and for the last week) I do not get any mails from >> subscribed_l...@lists.laptop.org in my yahoo account that this mail is >> sent from. >> I did check my subscription settings in the lists and look OK. >> >> Any idea how I could debug the yahoo mail issue? > > It should be fixed now -- someone broke into lists.laptop.org, used it > to send spam, and got its IP address blacklisted by Yahoo and some other > internet routers. > > We've moved lists.laptop.org to a different machine (swan.laptop.org) > now, and Adam reports that Yahoo is accepting mail from us again. > The problems of the last ten days or so should be all gone now; > let us know if not. Doesn't fix the download.laptop.org problem though: bert$ traceroute download.laptop.org traceroute to pedal.laptop.org (18.85.2.148), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets 1 fritz.box (192.168.178.1) 0.799 ms 0.636 ms 0.536 ms 2 rdsl-mgdb-de01.nw.mediaways.net (213.20.59.129) 21.506 ms 20.789 ms 19.710 ms 3 xmws-mgdb-de01-gigaet-6-5.nw.mediaways.net (62.53.167.194) 21.718 ms 20.401 ms 21.305 ms 4 rmws-mgdb-de02-chan-4.nw.mediaways.net (213.20.150.18) 19.749 ms 21.641 ms 20.673 ms 5 rmwc-brln-de02-so-3-3-3-0.nw.mediaways.net (195.71.234.241) 27.217 ms 28.921 ms 27.071 ms 6 rmwc-brln-de01-chan-1-0.nw.mediaways.net (62.53.164.33) 25.427 ms rmwc-brln-de01-xe-0-1-0-0.nw.mediaways.net (62.53.167.229) 25.971 ms rmwc-brln-de01-chan-1-0.nw.mediaways.net (62.53.164.33) 25.752 ms 7 so1-3-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net.10.16.84.in-addr.arpa (84.16.10.213) 74.775 ms 47.161 ms xe0-1-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net.10.16.84.in-addr.arpa (84.16.10.1) 147.131 ms 8 cogent-0-0-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net (213.140.52.50) 48.549 ms 50.644 ms cogent-1-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net (213.140.52.134) 49.137 ms 9 te0-4-0-4.mpd21.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.1.69) 48.601 ms 47.577 ms 49.285 ms 10 te8-2.mag02.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.50.65) 50.914 ms te4-1.mpd01.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.2.85) 48.801 ms te3-1.mag02.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.49.90) 51.761 ms 11 * * te3-5.mag02.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.38.170) 223.464 ms 12 * * * 13 * *^C - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [support-gang] lists.laptop down?
Same from Germany, I can't reach download.laptop.org. $ traceroute download.laptop.org traceroute to pedal.laptop.org (18.85.2.148), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets 1 host.local (192.168.178.1) 1.051 ms 1.579 ms 0.976 ms 2 rdsl-mgdb-de01.nw.mediaways.net (213.20.59.129) 21.702 ms 22.358 ms 21.432 ms 3 xmws-mgdb-de01-gigaet-6-5.nw.mediaways.net (62.53.167.194) 22.644 ms 21.636 ms 21.658 ms 4 rmws-mgdb-de01-chan-2.nw.mediaways.net (213.20.150.17) 21.829 ms 22.569 ms 21.626 ms 5 rmwc-brln-de01-so-3-2-3-0.nw.mediaways.net (213.20.150.5) 24.350 ms 23.026 ms 24.119 ms 6 xe0-1-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net.10.16.84.in-addr.arpa (84.16.10.1) 44.480 ms so1-3-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net.10.16.84.in-addr.arpa (84.16.10.213) 43.885 ms 45.233 ms 7 cogent-1-0-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net (213.140.52.134) 146.137 ms 115.263 ms cogent-7-3-0-grtparix1.red.telefonica-wholesale.net (213.140.52.210) 203.648 ms 8 te0-3-0-7.ccr21.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.39.73) 44.993 ms 44.295 ms 44.372 ms 9 te1-1.mag02.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.49.82) 204.130 ms te7-1.mag02.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.3.238) 120.512 ms te2-1.mag02.par01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.38.174) 160.504 ms 10 * * * 11 * * * 12 * * * - Bert - On 04.07.2011, at 01:17, Kevin Gordon wrote: > Ed: > > Thanks for posting this. > > That would most likely explain why I cant get to download.laptop.org, ( which > for me resolves to 18.85.2.148) but can get to build.laptop.org (which > resloves to 18.85.2.147 for me). I time out from hop 9 on down to hop 30 > where it stops. Hop 8 (last one to respond) is from is a cogentco IP > address, 154.54.40.174 > > For the build.laptop.org, the tracert once it leaves cogent goes to > 38.104.186.186, then to B24-RTR-3-BACKBONE.MIT.EDU. However there are two > more hops within atlas.cogentco.com (te0-2-0-2.ccr21.bos01, and > te0-1-0-0.ccr2.bos01) so it also may be a cogentco.com routing error. > > Cheers > > KG >> >> PS: I'll cross-post to devel, as I had mentioned my issue there too. Any >> workaround? >> >> KG >> >> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Ed McNierney wrote: >> That's an interesting report. I don't expect your ISP is Verizon FIOS, is >> it? >> >> Could you send me (no to the whole list - it's not interesting or on-topic) >> a traceroute from your machine to lists.laptop.org? There is nothing wrong >> with lists.laptop.org and it hasn't been down for days - it's fine. But >> there has been a problem routing to it since about a week ago. I originally >> suspected it was a problem specific to me at home, where I use Verizon FIOS, >> but then found that another Verizon FIOS user in Eastern Massachusetts had >> the exact same symptom (you can route to 18.85.2.147 but not to >> 18.85.2.148). So we've suspected it is a Verizon routing problem, and it >> would be helpful to either confirm or disprove that theory with your data. >> Thanks. >> >>- Ed >> >> >> On Jul 3, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: >> >> > Few days now lists.laptop.org is down. >> > So it looks more than a temp glitch or update. >> > Anybody has any info on the matter and when it may come back up? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Get serial number or XO name from command line or python
On 28.05.2011, at 08:55, LASKE, Lionel (C2S) wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for all your answers. The serial was exactly what I expected. Great.
> About the "XO name", my question was not clear. What I'm looking for is the
> name in the Sugar Control Panel (Me).
> Any way to get it ?
Depends on the Sugar version, and is quite hard to make work universally.
In older versions, you could ask the PresenceService for the "ownerBuddy", and
access its nick. Or directly access the file:
${HOME}/.sugar/${$SUGAR_PROFILE}/config
In newer versions, it's stored in gconf:
gconftool-2 -g /desktop/sugar/user/nick
Both of these assume you are logged in as the Sugar user. If you are running
the script as root, you need to guess the user name. On an XO the user normally
is "olpc", on SoaS it typically is "liveuser". If all else fails you could look
for all user homes that have a ".sugar" directory. If there is only one you are
lucky, otherwise you should fail and ask for the right one.
Also, watch out for non-ascii nick names, and funny characters. Kids frequently
use them, unaware there may be problems in command line scripts.
- Bert -
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Re: upgarde with olpc-update
On 27.05.2011, at 23:09, Daniel Drake wrote: > On 27 May 2011 22:05, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: >> Is it possible to upgrade the XO-1 to 11.2.0 builds from 10.1.3 or earlier >> builds as the wiki page suggests? [1] >> Someone did try it and run into problems beyond the space limitation [2] >> >> [1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/11.2.0#Upgrading_with_olpc-update >> [2] http://www.olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=4965.msg33325#msg33325 > > Probably not, in that case. We had a similar report in IRC. Thanks for > the feedback! Failed for me because it ran out of space. The difference between these builds is just too big. I instead backed up /home/olpc/.sugar, reflashed from USB, and restored the backup. That worked pretty well. > However, it does work in the general case (I've tested it) provided > that there is enough disk space available. (i.e. if you work with a > smaller target image) > > We'll work on improving this... > > Daniel I seem to remember there was a "magic" upgrade image that copied the user data to the USB pen drive, reflashed, and restored the user data. That might be an option. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Query]: uploading the updated version of Sugar activity
On 27.05.2011, at 09:30, Manusheel Gupta wrote: > Team, > > We wish to upload the updated version of SocialCalc activity at a.s.l.o, and > have been facing difficulties on doing the same. We are unable to find a menu > option for the uploading the upgraded activity. Click "Developer Hub". - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Query]: uploading the updated version of Sugar activity
Argh, hit send to soon. On 27.05.2011, at 12:53, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 27.05.2011, at 09:30, Manusheel Gupta wrote: > >> Team, >> >> We wish to upload the updated version of SocialCalc activity at a.s.l.o, and >> have been facing difficulties on doing the same. We are unable to find a >> menu option for the uploading the upgraded activity. > > Click "Developer Hub". , then "Edit Activity", then "Manage Activity Authors". Only the owner of the activity can do that. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: What must i do in order to debug my activity in terminal ?
Excellent suggestion. Also, I think you need to restart Sugar to make it see your new activity. Only if you install a bundle it gets recognized while running. - Bert - On 11.05.2011, at 10:24, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > Laurent, > May be you should read "Make your own Sugar activities" > http://en.flossmanuals.net/make-your-own-sugar-activities/ch007_creating-your-first-activity/ > > Gonzalo > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 6:49 AM, laurent bernabe > wrote: > Hello, > > i've built a nearly-dummy bundle of my activity (which in fact, just attach > DrawingArea subclass to the canvas), but after having installed it on the > Virtual Machine, the activity does not even lauch. > > So i tried sugar-launch Activities/myActivity.Activity, but it says me that > it can't find the bundle. > > So, what must i do in order to see the errors ? > > Regards ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: What must i do in order to debug my activity in terminal ?
On 11.05.2011, at 06:49, laurent bernabe wrote: > Hello, > > i've built a nearly-dummy bundle of my activity (which in fact, just attach > DrawingArea subclass to the canvas), but after having installed it on the > Virtual Machine, the activity does not even lauch. > > So i tried sugar-launch Activities/myActivity.Activity, but it says me that > it can't find the bundle. The *.activity extension must be all lowercase. - Bert - > So, what must i do in order to see the errors ? > > Regards ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Possible XO Graphics Optimization Technique
On 01.04.2011, at 18:07, Erik Blankinship wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Samuel Greenfeld > wrote: > Hello all: > > As many of you are aware, work is being done to improve the graphics > performance of various XO laptop platforms. > > So in an attempt to improve things further, I looked into optimizing the data > Sugar sends to the video subsystem itself. > > I think I have made some improvements, and put up some samples of my Sugar > interface work at http://www.greenfeld.org/1April2011/ . Feedback is welcome. > > But while I have drastically reduced the amount of bandwidth required to > display the Sugar interface, I fear I have significantly increased the amount > of power required for optimal rendering. > > > Yes, power consumption has been one of our greatest concerns as the pixel to > semicolon bump causes some serious strain. > > The XO tablet's gpu will probably handle this going forward. > > http://mediamods.com/sugar/record_ui.html Well, I tried it for Etoys. On a ca. 1968 terminal it's way to slow. But the XO is way more powerful (in particular the 1.5) so this is worth pursuing, IMHO: http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/Etoys1968.jpg - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Activity crashes when using libsugarize.so
On 09.02.2011, at 19:08, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Martin Langhoff > wrote: >> The solution is to grab the src and recompile. That .so is likely old. > > Actually, not so much of a solution. Still getting some crashes. May > be related to the program misbehaving. libsugarize only works for "well-behaved" simple X11 programs. It relies on certain functions being called that have been redirected to the library's overrides. It's a preload-hack, not a proper library, so I'd expect many programs not to work correctly. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] acti-plications: write once, run anywhere?
On 18.01.2011, at 18:41, Erik Blankinship wrote: > On a dual-boot XO, does it make sense to use the same binary code for sugar > activities also in gnome applications? If so, are there guidelines or > example acti-plications? I think it makes a lot of sense. That's one of the reasons the Etoys activity bundle is but a tiny wrapper. Etoys works as stand-alone application in Gnome and as activity in Sugar. > If the same binary code is not re-used by both platforms, but just the same > code base, are there guidelines or examples of how to re-use the same code > base effectively? Off the top of my head, how data is serialized is handled > differently between the two platforms. Yes. Etoys switches the tool bar, e.g., the insert object/keep a copy buttons are replaced by file load/save buttons, the sharing button goes away, a full-screen button is added. The file format is the same, but different code paths are used. > This question is of particular concern to acti-plications with many media > assets, like some video games. It would be nice to avoid file redundancy. > Given the small size of the XO netbooks, I hope this question is on mark for > this community. Right on. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: ArchLinux packages for Sugar
On 10.12.2010, at 09:18, Christophe Guéret wrote: > Hi, > > The sugar packages for Archlinux were orphans and outdated. > I just adopted and updated a bunch of them: > http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=tolgam > > If you are an Arch user, please have a look at them and let me know if > they work for you. > > Cheers, > Christophe Not an Arch user here, but yay! :) Since I guess this is not exclusively aimed at OLPC hardware I'd suggest announcing this on the Sugar mailing list, too: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 progress
On 11.11.2010, at 21:33, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >> You can get Marvell's spec sheets on ... the Armada 610 SoCs at: >> http://www.marvell.com/products/processors/applications/armada_600/armada610_pb.pdf > > That spec sheet is kinda skimpy. In a discussion of CPU performance for > the XO-1.75, Chris Ball said "we're now using a dual-issue CPU". > I was not sure what that phrase meant (perhaps "dual core"?) - but this > cited Marvell spec sheet did not clarify that about the Armada 610/MMP2. It's a single core, but can (sometimes) issue two instructions in one cycle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superscalar - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 progress
Awesome :) If we can make Sugar and its activities work on that smallish touchscreen we'd be in an excellent position for the tablet work. /me wants one - Bert - On 11.11.2010, at 19:30, Ed McNierney wrote: > Bert - > > No, not at all. Our plans were, and are, to build XO-1.75 laptops with > touchscreen support. That's an essential step in our tablet development, we > think. That will essentially provide us with a 7.5" 4:3 tablet inside a > laptop case. That's a little small for a tablet, but it allows useful > software development for a tablet model quite early - with a keyboard and > mouse as fallback tools. > > But I think it's important to think about XO-1.75 more as a set of > technologies than as a "product" right now. We're still experimenting. > We're learning, for example, that while interested deployments like the idea > of an XO laptop with a touchscreen, they're also very sensitive to price, and > aren't likely to purchase machines with an optional piece of hardware that > isn't necessary for the device's operation, especially when that hardware > will add more than $10 to the cost of the machine. So we're certainly going > to produce XO-1.75 machines with touchscreens for software development, but > it's entirely possible that no machines will be delivered to deployments with > touchscreens installed. > > - Ed > > > On Nov 11, 2010, at 7:32 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > >> On 11.11.2010, at 12:49, Ed McNierney wrote: >> >>> [...] we're talking about XO-1.75 right now, which is a laptop. An OLPC-3 >>> tablet is a long way away and it's not really useful to discuss/speculate >>> on it now. We're working on XO-1.75. >>> >>> - Ed >> >> Back in July there were plans to have a touchscreen in the XO-1.75: >> >> "the XO-1.75 will have a touchscreen, as will future OLPC tablets based >> on its design" >> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-July/025376.html >> >> So this has been tabled? >> >> - Bert - >> >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 progress
On 11.11.2010, at 12:49, Ed McNierney wrote: > [...] we're talking about XO-1.75 right now, which is a laptop. An OLPC-3 > tablet is a long way away and it's not really useful to discuss/speculate on > it now. We're working on XO-1.75. > > - Ed Back in July there were plans to have a touchscreen in the XO-1.75: "the XO-1.75 will have a touchscreen, as will future OLPC tablets based on its design" http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-July/025376.html So this has been tabled? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 progress
Yay! - Bert - On 10.11.2010, at 22:01, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi all, > > OLPC Engineering had a trip to Taipei for the XO-1.75 motherboard > bringup last week. The 1.75 machine lives in the same industrial > design (display, case, batteries) as the XO-1/XO-1.5, but uses an > ARM system-on-chip from Marvell -- the Armada 610/MMP2. > > There's still a great deal of driver and basic bringup work ongoing, > but we're at a point where we can share details and photos: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_1.75_A1 > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO1.75_Bringup > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/File:XO1.75_A1_bringup.jpg > > http://dev.laptop.org/~lennert/20101109148.jpg > http://dev.laptop.org/~lennert/20101108144.jpg > http://dev.laptop.org/~lennert/20101108146.jpg > http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/1.75/1.75-a1-dmesg > http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/1.75/xo-1.75-broughtup.jpg > > The grand plan is to first move to the new ARM motherboard in the > old industrial design (XO-1.75), then move to that same motherboard > in a new tablet industrial design (XO-3). Of course, there tend to > be a lot of changes to OLPC's grand plans before devices ship! > > Software-wise, we're running XO-EC and Open Firmware at the low level, > and Fedora 12 with Sugar and GNOME for the OS. We plan on moving up > to Fedora 13 or 14 as they become available for ARM. (An easy way > to help us out would be to help the Fedora ARM team with their mass > rebuilds for newer Fedora releases.) > > As usual, we'll be running a Developers Program with these machines > once we've got past the necessary initial hardware fixes and made a > larger volume of boards. That's going to take several months, but > we wanted you to know that it will be coming. > > Thanks! > > - Chris, on behalf of the OLPC Engineering team. > -- > Chris Ball > One Laptop Per Child > ___ > olpc mailing list > o...@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/olpc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Where should I put my public_rpms for 10.1.3 ?
On 20.10.2010, at 23:44, Simon Schampijer wrote: > On 10/20/2010 07:10 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: >> Hi Simon, >> >> as in the past, should it be ~/public_rpms/10.1.3 ? Will that work? > > Yes, using the public_rpms will work. They will end up under the name of > dsd then [1]. Mind that you have to use ~martin/public_rpms and not > ~martin/public_html/public_rpms but I am sure you know this already :) > >> Hello list -- did I forget to mention this? Simon is build-master for >> 10.1.3 . Release manager. Culprit-in-chief. >> >> Mbwa-ha-ha-ha-ha. Little does he know the trouble he's in... ;-) > > Thanks for the introduction :) > > Regards, >Simon > > [1] http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~dsd/repos/f11/filelist.txt Awesome news :) What's the schedule? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [squeakland] Audio recorder broken on XO-1.5
On 14.10.2010, at 11:58, tom.staub...@fhtw-berlin.de wrote: > On Oct 14, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > >> We just did an update to the 4.1 release which might fix this, provided a >> "good" Squeak VM package is installed. > > How do I know if a "good" Squeak VM Package is installed? It has to have the vm-sound-pulse module. The available modules are listed at the end of the "squeak -help" output. It was added in 4.0 but when building it, the right headers/libraries have to be installed, otherwise it is left out. > Is there an easy way to update the XO to this new version? Depends on what you mean by "easy" ;) > My Settings->Software update says that my software is up to date. Or do I > have to install it from source? Where do I find an installation guide? I'm > not only looking at this from my perspective but also from a perspective of > teachers that might not be techies. If RPMs were available (that's what I meant by "packaging" at the start of this discussion) then you could upgrade them. But this requires using the command line, and you will have to have root access. IIUC many kids don't have root access so they cannot fix this themselves. Only a new operating system version would be "simple" because that's installed deployment-wide. But that does not happen often, if at all. OTOH, recording worked fine in previous versions (before PulseAudio) so not too many people are affected yet, I think. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [squeakland] Audio recorder broken on XO-1.5
On 14.10.2010, at 02:38, tom.staub...@fhtw-berlin.de wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > >> (I'm copying the olpc devel list) >> >> On 12.10.2010, at 07:58, tom.staub...@fhtw-berlin.de wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I'm currently experimenting with Etoys' audio recorder on the XO. >>> It seems to be broken on the XO-1.5. >>> >>> While it works (more or less) ok on several XO-1s, all of them have a fresh >>> install of System 10.1.2/Sugar 0.84, it completely fails on the XO-1.5, >>> running the same System/Sugar version. >>> >>> Following is a description of what happens: >>> I create a new project, open the supplies box, fetch a Sound Recorder, and >>> place it somewhere on stage. >>> I press the record button, the microphone control light lights up and I'm >>> able to record about a second or two. Then Etoys gets kind of stuck. It is >>> hard to move the mouse cursor, stop the recording, remove the recorder... >>> It takes some time, then Etoys starts to be responding again and I'm able >>> to delete the recorder. Even if the recorder is deleted the microphone >>> control light still keeps burning until Etoys is finally stopped. >>> >>> I wrote more or less ok as on both XO's the quality of the audio is less >>> than satisfactory. Also the level of the recording is very low. Maybe a >>> control to adjust the input level might be a means to improve this. >>> >>> If this list should not be the appropriate address for reports like this, >>> please tell me and give me directions where to go to instead. >> >> The squeakland list is okay to report Etoys problems. If you are fine with a >> more technical discussion, the etoys-dev list is even better: >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev >> >> Your report sounds like this issue: >> http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-641 >> >> So we are aware of it, and there is a solution. But we (Etoys developers) do >> not build the XO operating system nor the Etoys/Squeak packages used there. >> To actually fix this for OLPC users in general, the packaging needs to >> change (in particular to fix older versions). The OLPC developers list is >> more appropriate to discuss that: >> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> >> There are open tickets on the OLPC tracker too: >> >> http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9724 >> http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9527 > > Thanks for the links. I'll check the bug trackers next time before reporting. We just did an update to the 4.1 release which might fix this, provided a "good" Squeak VM package is installed. >> Currently we have nobody driving the process of getting this fixed. But >> volunteer positions are always open, maybe you are interested in helping >> out? :) >> >> - Bert - > Any other time I'd say yes. But I'm currently writing my master's thesis, > have a couple of day time jobs, and a newborn baby. So I hardly will find the > time to actually fix stuff. > What I can offer to do though, is reporting bugs or issues that occur to me > while I'm doing research for my thesis. That is very valuable, too. Thank you! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [squeakland] Audio recorder broken on XO-1.5
(I'm copying the olpc devel list) On 12.10.2010, at 07:58, tom.staub...@fhtw-berlin.de wrote: > Hi, > I'm currently experimenting with Etoys' audio recorder on the XO. > It seems to be broken on the XO-1.5. > > While it works (more or less) ok on several XO-1s, all of them have a fresh > install of System 10.1.2/Sugar 0.84, it completely fails on the XO-1.5, > running the same System/Sugar version. > > Following is a description of what happens: > I create a new project, open the supplies box, fetch a Sound Recorder, and > place it somewhere on stage. > I press the record button, the microphone control light lights up and I'm > able to record about a second or two. Then Etoys gets kind of stuck. It is > hard to move the mouse cursor, stop the recording, remove the recorder... > It takes some time, then Etoys starts to be responding again and I'm able to > delete the recorder. Even if the recorder is deleted the microphone control > light still keeps burning until Etoys is finally stopped. > > I wrote more or less ok as on both XO's the quality of the audio is less than > satisfactory. Also the level of the recording is very low. Maybe a control to > adjust the input level might be a means to improve this. > > If this list should not be the appropriate address for reports like this, > please tell me and give me directions where to go to instead. The squeakland list is okay to report Etoys problems. If you are fine with a more technical discussion, the etoys-dev list is even better: http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev Your report sounds like this issue: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-641 So we are aware of it, and there is a solution. But we (Etoys developers) do not build the XO operating system nor the Etoys/Squeak packages used there. To actually fix this for OLPC users in general, the packaging needs to change (in particular to fix older versions). The OLPC developers list is more appropriate to discuss that: http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel There are open tickets on the OLPC tracker too: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9724 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9527 Currently we have nobody driving the process of getting this fixed. But volunteer positions are always open, maybe you are interested in helping out? :) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sur] Reproducir videos - Etoys
(I'm copying olpc-devel because this is more of a packaging issue than an etoys specific one) On 11.10.2010, at 07:03, Carlos Rabassa wrote: > To Squeakland: > > Translation of portions referring to Squeakland / Etoys of a message from > Paolo Benini, posted in OLPC-Sur a very active forum with many users in > Latin America: > > > > On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:59 AM, nanon...@mediagala.com [Paolo Benini] wrote: > > > Luis Galindo wrote: > > We should be able to include video (MPG) and audio (MP3). > > > > [and Paolo replies] > As far as MP3s and Etoys, I understand the first version that arrived in > Uruguay was able to reproduce the MP3s. > > Later on, a new version of Etoys didn´t have this option [The mp3 format is > not free software]. > > But later on they put again in the XOs an Etoys that does reproduce MP3. > > --- > > Talking of Etoys 4: > > Version 4 was released a year ago. > > The version for the XO has not been published yet. This is not true. It has been published a year ago as well, as part of Sugar 0.88. > (There are versions for Linux, Macintosh and Windows). > > Yes, I already know, a few will think: "this email list is not Squeakland´s. > Ask them." > > > > But I already did ask and received no response. > > The Etoys version that may be downloaded from Sugarlabs is v113, which > corresponds to Etoys 3. No. The activity version has little to do with the Etoys version. Whatever Etoys is installed in your operating system will be used by the Etoys activity. The activity you download from the Sugarlabs Activities site is only a launcher for the actual Etoys. > We already have. at RAP-CEIBAL, several translated [to Spanish] tutorial > videos for Etoys 4. > > But we have not been able to publish them yet because so far, Etoys 4 still > works only with Windows, Mac and Linux but not in the XOs. Both Etoys 4 and Etoys 4.1 work fine on the XO. But the "activity version" is not the same as the "etoys version". Etoys is part of Sugar itself, it is only presented as an activity. If you read the Etoys activity download page carefully, it even says so ;) If you install a new version of Sugar, you will get a new Etoys. For example, Sugar 0.90 includes Etoys 4.1. You could also upgrade Etoys separately from Sugar. Etoys 4.1 works on all Sugar versions since 0.82. But this is not just a simple activity download, so we do not advice students to do that on their own. > - > > Note from the translator: > > A few moments ago we told Paolo and all others in OLPC-Sur, the latest > version of Etoys is Etoys 4.1 released less than one month ago and available > at > > http://squeakland.org/download/ > > > > I have a question of my own: > > I have downloaded from that page Etoys-To-Go. > > I found it to work perfectly in Macintosh and Windows computers, without > doing any installation. > > It allows the user to download to a pendrive and use Etoys 4.1 wihtout any > installation process in any computer, start working, save work in progress > and finish the work in another computer with a different operating system. > > > > My question: > > Will it work this same way in a XO?? You could plug it in and run from the Terminal command line. However, then you would not be able to save to the Journal, because Etoys would run as regular Linux application, not as Sugar activity. Sugar cannot use an activity that is on a pendrive, it can only install it by copying to the XO. But installing Etoys 4.1 as is would take up more than 90 MB of additional space, which is not a good idea on the small space the XO has. So IMHO the only good way to get Etoys 4.1 onto the XOs in Uruguay would be if someone packaged it by leaving out the non-needed translations to get the package size down, and then putting it into a new operating system image. This then should take about the same space as Etoys 4 which only had the English content. - Bert - > Carlos Rabassa > Volunteer > Plan Ceibal Support Network > Montevideo, Uruguay > > > > On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:59 AM, nanon...@mediagala.com wrote: > >> >Luis Galindo wrote: >> >Debeíamos poder incluir video (MPG) y audio (MP3) - >> --- >> >> >> >> Acerca de los MP3 y el etoys: según tengo entendido, en la primera versión >> que llegó a Uruguay, el Etoys reproducía los MP3, pero luego en una versión >> subsiguiente de Etoys se anuló esa opción (el formato mp3 no es software >> libre), y pero luego más tarde en Uruguay le pusieron a las xo nuevamente un >> Etoys que sí reproce MP3. >> >> --- >> >> HAblando de Etoys 4: >> Desde hace un año que salió la nueva versión 4 y no está publicada la >> versión para las XO. (está la versión para linux, mac y windows). >> >> Sí, ya sé que muchos pensarán: "ésta lista no es de squeakland, preguntale a >> ellos". pero es que ya
Re: New Forth Lesson - Open Firmware System Initialization
On 13.08.2010, at 09:43, Mitch Bradley wrote: > Submitted for your consideration and amusement: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Forth_Lesson_20 Quite fascinating! Thanks for writing this up :) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Killing activities when memory gets short
On 09.08.2010, at 01:21, John Gilmore wrote: >> As long as activities are saving and restoring properly it could be > made pretty much transparent to the user. Of course that's easier > said then done... > > Android has a whole mechanism for this: > > http://blog.rlove.org/2010/04/why-ipad-and-iphone-dont-support.html > > That explains the problem, but doesn't explain the Android answer > to it, which is here: > > http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html > > The section "Component Lifecycles" gives the summary. They call each > app's onPause() method when it is obscured from visibility on the > screen, and that method is responsible for recording everything the > app needs to restart itself and get back to the same screen display > (what file it was working on, how far down the file it was, etc). > Then, any process whose onPause() method has been called is considered > a cache, and can be killed without warning by the kernel. > > (I'm not advocating using this system -- I've only barely been > exposed to it. But it's useful to see how others have solved the > problem you're facing, before making your own solutions.) Sugar has a similar mechanism. From the Low-level Activity API docs: org.laptop.Activity.SetActive(b: active) Activate or passivate an activity. This is sent when switching activities, there is only one active activity at a time, all others are passive. A passive activity must immediately release resources like sound, camera etc. Also it should prepare for being killed without warning at any time in the future (see OOM) by auto-saving to the datastore. The issue is that it's hard to estimate how many Sugar activities actually do this, because until now they usually have not been killed (*). Might be an interesting test - just randomly kill activities from Terminal and see if they resume correctly ... Maybe "good" activities could "volunteer" to be shut down first. Or "bad" activities would have to "beg" to live a little longer. Might just take an entry in the activity.info file. - Bert - (*) Apple seems to have foreseen this "developer psychology" issue and actually killed all apps in the first three iterations of its iOS. So apps had to implement this state saving if the user was to be able to continue after leaving an app. Would be interesting to know how many Android apps actually implement it. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANN] DrGeo 10.08
On 06.08.2010, at 08:54, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > Dear all, > > I am please to announce the release 10.08 of the DrGeo activity. > > http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire/index.php?post/drgeo-xo-10.08-release Congratulations! For people unfamiliar with Squeak, you might want to add a note about how to quit (e.g., not to save when asked). Also, I had to manually install the bundle. After downloading, Sugar did not recognize it as an activity. I guess your wiki does not serve the right mime type. Uploading to aslo might be better (although it would be nice if Sugar was a little more forgiving). This is on the OLPC 260py build (Sugar 0.88.1). - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO 1.75 screen
On 02.08.2010, at 08:28, John Watlington wrote: > We are considering a change to 1280 x 720 for XO-1.75, but it too would be > fixed. I understand this is about cost and going with the main stream. But IMHO it would be a bad move. Please, if at all possible, stay with a 4:3 ratio. It's easy to scale content, but to redesign it for 16:9 is hard even for professionals (*). Making user-content authored both on wide and regular screens be exchangeable is almost impossible. E.g., currently Etoys projects made by the kids are 4:3. On a wide-screen machine, Etoys by default shows black borders left and right. This can be turned off, but then we would get projects authored in both 16:9 and 4:3, and viewing them on a different screen makes them unusably small. Stretching is not really an option because 5 units should represent the same distance horizontally and vertically. Also, when turned to portrait mode, 3:4 looks much nicer than 9:16. Wide-screens are much too tall when rotated. E.g., Apple Macs use wide screens exclusively, and are not designed to be rotated. But Apple's iPad and iPhone, which are often held in portrait or landscape, have a 4:3 screen. Given that there are thoughts for a future tablet version of the XO, which hopefully would use 4:3, I think a wide-screen interlude should be avoided. - Bert - (*) Some people seem to be fine with stretching. While touring the US last month (which has many more public TVs than Germany) I was amazed how many showed fat people, just stretching the 4:3 broadcast to fill the whole screen. For an educational machine I don't think that's a good idea. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] behaviour of F-keys on XO HS
On 17.07.2010, at 09:31, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > El Thu, 15-07-2010 a las 23:08 -0400, Paul Fox escribió: >> i think everyone (except >> apple, i'm learning tonight) agrees this is the correct setup >> when not in sugar. > > Lenovo also seems to be switching to the Apple layout: > > http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/thinkpadedgepost16.jpg > http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/gallery/lenovo-thinkpad-edge-13-review/lenovo-thinkpad-edge-13-keyboard.jpg > > Almost all the historic F-key mappings have an alternative CTRL+key or > ALT+key mapping in modern HIGs. Keys to control laptop volume and > brightness are accessed much more frequently, so it's foreseeable that > over time they will supplant the F-keys in PC keyboards. +1 IMHO pressing "fn" to get "f1" to "f10" makes sense. In my daily routine I much more often change volume or brightness than use the numbered F keys. Looking at this again http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Spanish_Non-membrane_Keyboard I propose: f1-f8 produce F key codes both with and without the fn key f9-f12 produce F codes only with fn, and volume/brightness events without fn. So holding down fn always gets you the F key codes, you can change volume/brightness without modifier, and as a bonus you can use the first eight F keys even without the fn key. This mapping should work both in Sugar and outside. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar with a virtual (onscreen) keyboard
On 30.06.2010, at 07:28, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 4:48 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> Do all of firefox/xulrunner/chrome use GTK widgets for text entry? >> I'm nervous that some programs might not pop up the keyboard >> appropriately. > > Yes - it would be difficult to detect things in webkit/xulrunner. Also > it won't work for Scratch or Etoys. I think for such cases, having a > dbus service from sugar to show/hide the keyboard may be a good idea > (at least some activities may be able to take advantage of it) Yes, dbus should work well for Etoys. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Cairo's slow rendering on XO-1 (was: olpcgames - mainloop bug help)
On 28.06.2010, at 09:21, Sascha Silbe wrote: > Excerpts from Mart Raudsepp's message of Mon Jun 28 06:37:31 +0200 2010: > >> Currently we (primarily two AMD employees, not so much me) are >> concentrating on fixing some of the awful bugs (many of which get >> triggered only by a newer xorg-server version), such as misrendering >> with HwAccel and rotation issues. After those are hopefully fixed soon, >> some attention will probably start to go on hardware acceleration >> performance, as the current situation is indeed rather sad: >> http://people.freedesktop.org/~leio/geode/perf/ > > Awesome (that somebody is going to work on it), thanks! > > Sascha Yay indeed! - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 17.06.2010, at 11:23, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>
> On 15.06.2010, at 16:47, Paul Fox wrote:
>
>> bert wrote:
>>> On 14.06.2010, at 20:57, Paul Fox wrote:
>>>
>>>> bert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14.06.2010, at 03:47, James Cameron wrote:
>>>>>>> However, after letting the machine sit idle for a while (even just
>>>>>>> after booting, still in the Sugar home screen), the whole machine
>>>>>>> froze. Power LED was still on. Had to power-cycle. Does not happen all
>>>>>>> the time, but twice already. Maybe it's my machine (one of the first
>>>>>>> C-test ones)?
>>
>> your board is a B2. ("OLPC board revision D1" -- confusing, i
>> know.) so you'll need to keep power management off to keep your
>> wlan alive in any case.
>>
>> your symptoms are definitely odd, though.
>>
>> can i assume you weren't having similar problems with previous
>> releases? it might be worth reinstalling whatever you were
>> running before -- do you know what that was?
>
> Well I didn't update in quite a while. Might have been from last year
> actually.
>
>> there's one more technique for getting "last gasp" information in
>> the case of a crash when you don't have serial. switch to a VT,
>> and enter "echo 9 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk" to enable full console
>> logging. let the machine die -- if it's a kernel panic or oops you
>> should get a stack backtrace on the VT. the bad news is that you'll
>> only get the tail end of the backtrace, because the screen is small
>> relative to the amount of data.
>>
>> paul
>
> Strange. Haven't been able to reproduce now for two days ...
>
> - Bert -
And even stranger, now that I did not enable the printk it happened again. It
was sleeping, I touched the pad, power led came on, but screen backlight did
not, and it does not respond to keys or touch anymore. Also, it does not go
back to sleep according to the power led, so it indeed is frozen I'd say.
Mysterious.
- Bert -
___
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Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 15.06.2010, at 16:47, Paul Fox wrote:
> bert wrote:
>> On 14.06.2010, at 20:57, Paul Fox wrote:
>>
>>> bert wrote:
On 14.06.2010, at 03:47, James Cameron wrote:
>> However, after letting the machine sit idle for a while (even just
>> after booting, still in the Sugar home screen), the whole machine
>> froze. Power LED was still on. Had to power-cycle. Does not happen all
>> the time, but twice already. Maybe it's my machine (one of the first
>> C-test ones)?
>
> your board is a B2. ("OLPC board revision D1" -- confusing, i
> know.) so you'll need to keep power management off to keep your
> wlan alive in any case.
>
> your symptoms are definitely odd, though.
>
> can i assume you weren't having similar problems with previous
> releases? it might be worth reinstalling whatever you were
> running before -- do you know what that was?
Well I didn't update in quite a while. Might have been from last year actually.
> there's one more technique for getting "last gasp" information in
> the case of a crash when you don't have serial. switch to a VT,
> and enter "echo 9 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk" to enable full console
> logging. let the machine die -- if it's a kernel panic or oops you
> should get a stack backtrace on the VT. the bad news is that you'll
> only get the tail end of the backtrace, because the screen is small
> relative to the amount of data.
>
> paul
Strange. Haven't been able to reproduce now for two days ...
- Bert -
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Re: [Testing] F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 14.06.2010, at 03:47, James Cameron wrote: > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 05:32:12PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> Installed on my 1.5 after updating the firmware to q3a39. >> Typing "boot" in OFW right after "fs-update" froze the machine. > > Unpredictable behaviour is known to occur if you try to "boot" after > fs-update, you should use "bye". Ah, okay. But that shouldn't have done permanent damage, right? Should I reflash? >> Powered off (long-press on power button) and booted. Let it sit idle >> for a while in the first-time Sugar screen (name dialog) -> machine >> froze. > > It should idle suspend. It should not freeze. It does idle suspend. When the LED starts blinking and I touch the pad it wakes up fine. Just when I come back after some time of idling, it doesn't wake up anymore. The freeze happens sometimes with the screen still lit, sometimes after it turned off. >> However, after letting the machine sit idle for a while (even just >> after booting, still in the Sugar home screen), the whole machine >> froze. Power LED was still on. Had to power-cycle. Does not happen all >> the time, but twice already. Maybe it's my machine (one of the first >> C-test ones)? > > Sounds bad. Do you have a serial port attached? I ask because I > suspect a kernel panic and a serial port is a practical way to obtain > more problem data. No, I don't have one. > Might also be worth running memtest from OFW as well, just to exclude > certain other causes. Ran memtest (from 30m up as Richard suggested), passed, no errors. I also took out the battery to make sure everything is reset. Still freezes when I let it sit long enough. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Anyone playing with Ubuntu on XO-1.5?
On 14.06.2010, at 19:17, David Farning wrote: > Phase one is improving the relationship with Debian and establishing > credibility:) Yay! :) I talked to some of the Debian-Edu/Skolelinux folks at LinuxTag. There's interest from their side, too. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 14.06.2010, at 14:15, Derek O'Connell wrote: > On 14/06/10 12:56, Peter Robinson wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Derek O'Connell >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> I don't have much experience creating patches so please let me know if the >>> attached is the wrong format for your purposes. Created using: >>> >>> diff -cB >>> /home/doc/std/dev/squeak/vm/3.10-5/unix-3.10-5/platforms/unix/vm-sound-ALSA/sqUnixSoundALSA.c >>> /home/doc/std/dev/squeak/vm/3.11.3/src/squeak-svn/platforms/unix/vm-sound-ALSA/sqUnixSoundALSA.c >>> sqUnixSoundALSA.patch >> If you could use 'diff -u origfile newfile> output.patch' from the >> root of the source tree that would be better. >> > > Which source tree root are you referring to? The sources for the current Fedora package. A source rpm has a tarball of the sources, and optionally a series of patch files relative to that "upstream" tarball. Not sure where to find those sources though, I'm not too familiar with Fedora procedures. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 14.06.2010, at 13:01, John Maloney wrote: > Hi, Bert. > > Re: >> Tried sound playback in Scratch, it's choppy, many clicks to hear. Suspended >> fine, resumed playing sound. Recording does not freeze the activity, but has >> bad quality. > > Derek says that the recorded sound is actually okay if you export it and play > it with a good sound player. Does that fit with your experience? Yes, it seems to be playback-related. Actually, Sayamindu fixed that already, but it got reverted with Derek's anti-freeze patch. He just made a combined version: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9375 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 14.06.2010, at 06:24, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Bert, > >> Copied ~olpc/Activities/Sratch.activity/vm-sound-ALSA plugin to >> /usr/lib/squeak/3.10-5/. >> >> After that, in Etoys playback sounds a bit worse, but it's still >> okay (hard to tell actually). And no freeze after suspend, >> playing just resumes. So it would be a good idea to use that ALSA >> plugin for Squeak in general, me thinks. > > Could we get a squeak/etoys package with a fixed alsa-plugin ASAP, please? Someone would need to rebuild Fedora's squeak-vm-3.10-5 package with Derek's patched sqUnixSoundALSA.c file (attached to the forwarded msg below). The etoys package is unaffected. Unless you can/want to use his binary, that is. > Yes, does sound a bit like hardware. Can I get a replacement? Preferably the HS version once it's ready? ;) - Bert - Begin forwarded message: > From: Derek O'Connell > Date: 9. Juni 2010 21:33:39 MESZ > To: Chris Ball > Cc: John Maloney , Bert Freudenberg > , Paul Fox > Subject: Re: alsa fix4 > > fix5 attached. > > On 09/06/10 18:48, Chris Ball wrote: >> Hi John, >> >>> Hi, Chris. I can build a new Scratch XO release. But first a few >>> questions: >>> >>> a. Shouldn't this fixed ALSA go into the Etoys release, where >>> it can be shared by both Scratch and Etoys? >> >> Ah, sounds like it. >> >>> b. If I just put the new ALSA plugin file in the Scratch >>> activity, are we sure it will get loaded? (i.e. does it override >>> the version in the Squeak VM folder)? >>> >>> c. I confess, got busy with other things, so I haven't tested >>> this. I know Derek has. Anyone else? >> >> Dunno about these. We can certainly help test a new build. >> >>> d. Should I remove Bert's shell script code that suppresses power >>> management? >> >> Yes, please. >> >>> e. What's your time frame? >> >> We were hoping to release on Friday, but we can afford to delay until >> this fix is ready. >> >> Thanks! >> >> - Chris. >> alsa-xo-1.5-fix5.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 2
On 12.06.2010, at 06:46, Chris Ball wrote: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5 > http://build.laptop.org/10.1.1/os203 > > Compressed image size: 705.34mb (+13.94mb since build 202) > > This build is the second RC for the 10.1.1 release; if no new blockers > appear, it will become the final release after a period of testing. > > Some bugs that we'd like particular help testing: > > * http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10045 : > - Fix loss of audio/video sync in Record activity. Some instances of >sync loss may remain, especially if you're running other activities >at the same time as Record; we'd like to hear your feedback. > > * http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10168 : > - Fix "Scratch can freeze up after playing sound". See reproduction >instructions in the ticket. Installed on my 1.5 after updating the firmware to q3a39. Typing "boot" in OFW right after "fs-update" froze the machine. Powered off (long-press on power button) and booted. Let it sit idle for a while in the first-time Sugar screen (name dialog) -> machine froze. Powered off again, booted. Entered name right away, works. Tried sound playback in Scratch, it's choppy, many clicks to hear. Suspended fine, resumed playing sound. Recording does not freeze the activity, but has bad quality. Tried sound playback in Etoys, works fine, no clicks. Suspending with sound playing freezes the activity. Recording still freezes it too. (Both is unsurprising, fix not deployed yet) Copied ~olpc/Activities/Sratch.activity/vm-sound-ALSA plugin to /usr/lib/squeak/3.10-5/. After that, in Etoys playback sounds a bit worse, but it's still okay (hard to tell actually). And no freeze after suspend, playing just resumes. So it would be a good idea to use that ALSA plugin for Squeak in general, me thinks. However, after letting the machine sit idle for a while (even just after booting, still in the Sugar home screen), the whole machine froze. Power LED was still on. Had to power-cycle. Does not happen all the time, but twice already. Maybe it's my machine (one of the first C-test ones)? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: multitouch
On 08.06.2010, at 17:46, Carlos Nazareno wrote: > a) Ratio - 4:3 -> is it possible to use a more normal/accepted > resolution that actual monitors use so that in the future, if > emulation works well on PCs, developers w/o XO machines can design > their apps/GUI better? It's not that hard to get an actual XO for testing. Designing on a regular PC monitor doesn't do it justice, the pixels are much too large. If you still want that, the Sugar emulator easily does 1200x900 on e.g. a 1280x1024 screen. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Touchscreen requirements
On 08.06.2010, at 07:44, John Watlington wrote: > OLPC is looking to add multi-touch to our interface over > the next year --- it is certainly necessary for a tablet. > But "multi-touch" describes a huge range of parameters. > Before taking a first pass at a spec. document, I'd like to > stir up some discussion. Here are the parameters that > I think should be specified. Feel free to comment on them > as well as suggest others! > > Cheers, > wad Thanks for inviting discussion! I recently started testing Etoys on the Apple iPad - not the least to get an idea of what needs to be done to it for an XO tablet. Multi-touch is definitely "cool", e.g. you can move around multiple Etoys objects simultaneously. If you are interested, I can send you a test version (pm me). Etoys uses the Sugar tool bar on all platforms. That works very well, the buttons are large enough even for my fingers. However, many other Etoys UI elements are much too small for touching. They're finicky even on the XO screen, but with a pointer you can at least hit them. That's rather hard with a finger (though the Apple touch screen is amazingly precise). A stylus would be preferable, but then, two-finger gestures are awkward with a stylus. It would help if the tablet had a 4:3 ratio. Ideally 1200x900 pixels just like the XO, but at least preserve the ratio. The iPad has 1024x768 pixels and I made Etoys use a virtual 1200x900 screen hw-scaled to the actual screen size, looks very nice. > - > 1) Number of simultaneous touches: > The number of simultaneous touches that can be tracked. > For W7, this is two. I believe OLPC is looking for more. IMHO multi-touch is almost essential on a tablet. Two would be enough IMHO, more are nice. What's "W7"? > 2) Behavior when number of simultaneous touches is exceeded: > If the number of simultaneous touches is exceeded, what happens ? > I suggest that the "oldest" touch be forgotten and no longer tracked, > but have seen other behaviors as well. I'd rather keep tracking the first touches and ignore additional ones. Then accidental touches wouldn't interrupt the current interaction. > 3) Palm rejection: > A number of vendors include "palm rejection" algorithms in their > controllers. I'm not sure how I feel about this --- I would prefer to > push this information higher in the stack before discarding it... > > 4) "Sensor size": > This applies to multizone resistive touchscreens, which may be > thought about as a number of small touchscreens, each capable of > a single touch.Two touches cannot be detected in any one zone, > so this affects how close buttons which might be pressed simultaneously > (think piano keys) can be placed to one another. W7 specs 1 in. x1 in. max. > I believe this needs to be closer to 1 cm x 1cm max. I'm imagining to use a two-finger tap to invoke meta operations, like the right touchpad button in Etoys on the XO. For this it would need to detect two kid's fingers form one ... > 5) Resolution: > Do we need to have a touch resolution equal to the screen size ? I have no real experience with this yet, but it needs to be high enough to allow drawing. > 6) Scan rate: > The number of times a second that the touch controller > can identify and report a touch.W7 specifies 50 Hz minimum, > which seems a little high. > > 7) Robustness: > This is usually specified as the number of presses in one spot with a contact > area of either 8mm (finger) or 0.8mm (stylus). Industry standard for > resistive > (single or multizone) seems to be around 80K, which is too low for our needs > (we try to reach a 2000 day lifetime). But the one vendor supporting 250K > touches was unusable by a bare finger (needed fingernail or stylus). > > 8) UV resistance: > Since this touchscreen is on top of a sunlight readable display, it will need > to be UV resistant. Our current standard (for the display) is no significant > change (>5%) in optical properties after 4000 hours of full sunlight UV > irradiation. > > 9) Humidity, temperature: > Same as the XO: operation from 0 to 50C, in RH up to 95%. > > Regards, > wad No opinion on these issues, yet ... - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Any issues with C in Sugar and XO?
On 08.05.2010, at 11:12, Chris Ball wrote: > > Hi, > >> Hey, I am wondering if there are some major issues or technical >> problems that doesn't make Sugar compatible with C. For example, >> if a program is written in C, are there going to be at least some >> complications with running it? > > No. Several activities are currently written in C, although most > (e.g. Browse and Abiword) have a small Python wrapper sitting on top > of the C code. > >> Can we run the program after installing gcc, but I don't think >> gcc would be easy to install in it, will it? > > You do not need to install gcc to run a C program. gcc's just a > compiler, not a runtime library. > >> So, one more question, please - What are the consequences and >> effects on performance of a C program as compared to a Python >> program? > > The largest consequence is that you lose access to our python > libraries for the datastore and collaboration, which affects how > integrated your activity will be with the rest of Sugar. You can > work-around this by speaking the dbus protocols that we use from C > directly, but this is by no means trivial. Not trivial, true, but not exactly rocket science either :) Pure C might be a bit cumbersome, but by using something like glib to speak to DBus I'd think it is quite possible to keep the effort reasonable. Have a look at the stuff you need to implement: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Low-level_Activity_API This could be made into a library, basically a Sugar toolkit implementation in C. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.5 bad ogg experience
On 07.05.2010, at 10:37, Daniel Drake wrote: > > The education team in La Rioja have a good number of videos they want > to ship on the laptops and servers. After the initial "argh the XO's > cant play AVI" panic, I showed them how to convert to theora+vorbis on > their regular PCs. No problems there. > > Unfortunately the next steps did not go so smoothly. We put a freshly > recorded 7mb ogg video on USB, plugged it into the laptop, and opened > it from the Journal. The Browse activity came up but really struggled > to play the video. > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10152 > > In fact, in addition to being really choppy, it consistently stopped > about 1/3 of the way through the video, with the spinner thing in the > center of the video as if it were streaming a video from online and > needed to download some more. > > The journal also gives you the option of opening the video in EToys, > but this doesn't work. > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10151 Yes, I guess for now it would be better if Etoys did not claim ogg support, because in too many cases it does not work. - Bert - > The video does work absolutely great in the Jukebox activity. But > Jukebox is a story of its own. Firstly it doesn't associate mimetypes > so you can't open a video in Jukebox from the journal > http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1384 > > Secondly when you open it from the home view, it doesn't pop up the > object chooser, it just gives you a blank screen and gives you the > challenge of finding the "Open" button yourself > http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1385 > > Thirdly it doesn't inhibit suspend, so the machine goes to sleep > during playback (should I file a bug?) > > > We're running something really close to 10.1.1 build 202. > > Daniel > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Help with permissions under Rainbow sought
On 18.04.2010, at 17:10, Michael Stone wrote: > > Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> On 18.04.2010, at 14:10, Sascha Silbe wrote: >>> On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:26:23PM -0400, George Hunt wrote: >>> >>>> Rainbow changes UID for every invocation [...] >>> >>> Yes, that's the default behaviour. Rainbow can be instructed to use a >>> constant UID (Browse does); according to the OLPC wiki [1] you'd need to >>> add a >>> file activity/permissions.info, containing "constant-uid" on a single line. >>> >>> This is the least preferable solution, though. >>>> Apparently the create mask rainbow uses is 755 and group members do not >>>> have write access. >>> >>> It's not Rainbow that decides this. >> >> But arguably Rainbow could set a better default, no? Making files >> group-writable? > > Rainbow actually calls os.umask(0) here: > > http://dev.laptop.org/git/security/tree/rainbow/rainbow/inject.py#n263 > > However, it's entirely possible that some other logic in your program is > setting umask(022) or is creating files with an explicitly specified mode. > (You > may recall that xulrunner's behavior here was the reason why constant-uid was > introduced.) Well, I remember having to put the "umask 0002" call in the Etoys startup script a long time ago. It's still there, but unconditionally. Hence my next question ... >> Hmm, how do I test if Rainbow is enabled, in a shell script, again? > > If you mean "is sugar going to launch the next activity it launches under > rainbow?", then test for the presence of /etc/olpc-security, e.g. with > > if [ -f /etc/olpc-security ]; then ... fi > > If you mean "is my script currently running under rainbow?", then I don't > have a > perfect answer for you this instant. > (A good but imperfect answer is to test whether whether getuid() > 1 and > getgid() > 1, e.g. by parsing the output of the "id" command.) > Regards, > > Michael I meant the latter. Guess I won't worry too much, since most distros nowadays use per-user groups anyway. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Help with permissions under Rainbow sought
On 18.04.2010, at 14:10, Sascha Silbe wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:26:23PM -0400, George Hunt wrote: > >> I am using an ipython console application which writes a history file to the >> home directory (I changed the HOME environment to SUGAR_ROOT/data). > Have you considered saving the history as part of the data store entry > instead? That way your activity wouldn't mix histories from separate sessions > (i.e. when debugging several different programs). > >> Rainbow changes UID for every invocation [...] > Yes, that's the default behaviour. Rainbow can be instructed to use a > constant UID (Browse does); according to the OLPC wiki [1] you'd need to add > a file activity/permissions.info, containing "constant-uid" on a single line. > This is the least preferable solution, though. > >> Apparently the create mask rainbow uses is 755 and group members do not have >> write access. > It's not Rainbow that decides this. But arguably Rainbow could set a better default, no? Making files group-writable? Have to admit I forgot how the sticky bits on the data dir affects this though. > Permissions of newly created file system entries (i.e. files and directories) > are determined by the umask (see e.g. "man 2 umask"). You can either widen > the permissions after creation using chmod() (see "pydoc os.chmod") or tweak > the umask (see "pydoc os.umask"); since the latter affects _all_ created > files I would recommend the chmod() (you could save+restore the umask, but > it's prone to race conditions). When running in Rainbow, setting "umask 0002" shouldn't hurt in general. Hmm, how do I test if Rainbow is enabled, in a shell script, again? - Bert - > > [1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#activity.2Fpermissions.info > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open source vs. constructionist learning
On 13.04.2010, at 11:06, Carlos Nazareno wrote: > > I'm sorry if I offended you guys At this point you're not even offensive anymore, just pitiable. We're not demanding anyone is giving away anything for free. We simply choose to do that ourselves, and we want to enable others to do the same, so we make available everything someone else might need to build on our work. But nobody is forcing you to do as we do, so don't whine. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: tool elitism
I know I shouldn't feed the troll but ... On 12.04.2010, at 22:59, Carlos Nazareno wrote: > What I'm saying is that there's an army of us out there who can be > willing to volunteer and dev for the XO. However, a lot of us don't > have the luxury to learn Python/Sugarization or maybe just work best > with the tools we're comfortable with. Most of us are Windows users > too. Can't we volunteer to develop content for the OLPC with our tools > if they can run decently and play well? Of course you can. *Nobody* is preventing you from using any tool you like for this. > I can't believe I'm saying this (shudder), but aside from Flash, why > not also look into Moonlight and maybe ask Microsoft for help getting > it running well so that C#,VB & .NET coders can also contribute > content for the XO? Go ahead. Ask them. Nobody here is keeping you. > Look. I'm really serious here. > What if there are thousands of us out there who want to develop > content for OLPC, but just can't because it's Python/Sugar? You seriously have no idea. Sugar apps can be written in *any* language, if it can show an X11 window. For full integration it also needs D-Bus bindings. That's it. I know, because I did it. How about you? > I hope I haven't offended anyone. I really hope you guys see what I'm > trying to say because OLPC needs all the help it can get (and you > don't need to compromise your principles). I'm sorry to be blunt, but > OLPC has already jaded and alienated a lot of supporters (just read > Slashdot, the largest nerd army in the world). By creating additional > avenues for developers to contribute, I hope we can revive and > increase interest for volunteers. You're offending us insofar as you are wasting our time by not doing your homework. Get your facts straight before complaining. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
On 24.03.2010, at 14:12, Reuben K. Caron wrote: > > > On Mar 24, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Chris Ball wrote: >> >> 2) it is nowhere near possible to properly edit Flash content in a GUI >> on an XO because the software to do so does not exist, and suffers >> from a complex and underspecified set of compatibility requirements. > > I'll refrain from listing the software on the XO that is nowhere near > possible to edit on the XO because either the source code is not > available or the XO does not meet the technical requirements to run > necessary software. And how is being imperfect an argument for giving up ones ideas? Besides, all source code for all applications is available. As much of Sugar as possible was coded in Python, not the least to allow tinkering. The Etoys activity even comes with a full Smalltalk IDE (you know, the one that inspired countless other IDEs including Eclipse). That's the direction we prefer to explore. But even then we don't prevent others from exploring other directions. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 49, Issue 43
On 24.03.2010, at 01:56, Carlos Nazareno wrote: > >> The real problem with Flash isn't even the non-free player. It's the >> non-free authoring >> tool chain every content creator is locked into, plus that even with the >> tools the >> resulting flash file is not fully editable. The result is an impenetrable >> magic gimmick, >> it's not supposed to be examined, deconstructed, rebuilt, improved. It's >> teaching kids >> to be consumers, not to be creators. > > What? Have you guys not been reading what I've been saying? > > THERE ARE NOW FREE AND OPEN SOURCE TOOLS FOR CREATING FLASH CONTENT. > > You have Flashdevelop (opn source Actionscript Editor for Windows), > Flex SDK (all you need is a text editor to make AS3 .as files and a > command line to compile the SWF a la JDK), also, HaXe. > > -Naz So you would ditch Adobe's tools for these? You would happily use these to recreate your game on a Linux machine? I doubt that. But it's all we can assume that "our" kids, teachers, and developers have. Are you sure you're not treating them as second-class citizens? Do they have the same privileges in creating and modifying things as you enjoy? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
On 24.03.2010, at 01:42, Carlos Nazareno wrote: > > I don't get it. > [...] > Why is allowing additional tools & a new pool of content creators bad for > OLPC? We're not preventing anything. You're free to package the Adobe player and anything else needed to run your game into a Sugar activity. In fact there are proprietary game activities for the XO already. We're just not actively *supporting* that consumeristic attitude because ... > -- > carlos nazareno > "if you don't like the way the world is running, > then change it instead of just complaining." ... that's precisely what we try to do. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
On 24.03.2010, at 00:36, Chris Ball wrote: > > Hi, > >> What do you guys think? > > For what it's worth, I wrote up my personal opinion about this on the > sugar-devel@ list last year: > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-January/003516.html > > (This isn't an official OLPC policy; I didn't talk with anyone at OLPC > before writing it.) > > - Chris. Very nicely put. This *should be* official policy in any case :) The real problem with Flash isn't even the non-free player. It's the non-free authoring tool chain every content creator is locked into, plus that even with the tools the resulting flash file is not fully editable. The result is an impenetrable magic gimmick, it's not supposed to be examined, deconstructed, rebuilt, improved. It's teaching kids to be consumers, not to be creators. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Installation of non-sugar programs
On 15.03.2010, at 14:03, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > > 1) Activities would fall out of sync with respect to the system on > upgrades (and downgrades!). Many of the non-trivial activities > (Browse, Write, eToys) have implicit dependencies on exact version > of system libraries. Just a small correction: the activity's name is "Etoys", not "eToys" (the latter being a web store for toys). Secondly, Etoys (the activity) works with pretty much any version of etoys (the rpm) installed in the base system. It's quite a bit less picky than the others you listed. SCNR ;) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Children want Sugar 0.84, for the wrong reason
On 13.03.2010, at 11:56, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > > I've spent three days in Caacupè, observing how the new F11-XO1 build is > doing among our young user base. It's a great success, but for the wrong > reason: > > > http://codewiz.org/wiki/blog/2010/03#mon-mar-8--children-want-sugar-084-for-the-wrong-reasons Very valid observation. My kids change their desktop wallpaper about every week. So +1 to look customization. E.g., why not allow to change the gray frame color? In Etoys you can at least change the toolbar color (not permanently though, I should fix that). Even if it enrages our latte-drinking black-wearing designer friends ;) they're kids after all ... - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
