OLPC XO-3 on slashdot front page right now
Hi guys. The news about the OLPC XO-3 has hit Slashdot's front page again. http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/01/08/0025234/olpc-xo-3-to-debut-at-ces-starting-under-100-but-not-for-you Here's another good chance to fight FUD & tell more people about stuff that's going on & answer their questions. Do post before it gets buried into yesterday's news. There's some interest about developing for the XO from at least 1 guy so I posted about the contributors program. Cheers! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: XO-1.75 power testing
Will reflash Bonnie, the 1.75 1B1 after the auckland game developer meetup & do power testing on latest 11.3.1 build, mostly for read & standbye, hibernate etc times. Tried running it idle the other day in Sugar overnight in idle. After some time, it automatically went into hibernate (blinking LED), and then when I woke up in the morning, it had shut down, but still had quite some juice in the battery, something I found curious. This was yum updated though. Was this on purpose or a glitch? -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
11.3.1 b17 XO 1.75 rpmfusion
okay, this is the one: Error: cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: rpmfusion-free. Please verify its path and try again. Tried installing rpm fusion fresh off yum update as per instructions on the rpmfusion site. F14 Arm/OLPC 1.75 repos problem? Worked fine on XO-1. calling it a night. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
initial report post-flash 11.3.1 build 17
Hi guys. XO 1.75 1B1 (a B1 with non-membrane keyboard & no SD, right?) Note: Fresh off flashing & first boot, was unable to connect to Wifi network multiple times. Switched to Gnome, same. After rebooting, managed to connect to wifi, but not sending/receiving packets. Disconnecting & reconnecting fixed it. Interestingly, the 1.75 1B1 with me seems to be detecting less networks than the XO-1. Where the XO-1 can see 3 (house + neighbors), the 1.75 only sees one (house). Yum update just ran nicely after being able to connect (ran it under gnome). Is anyone interested in the out-of-the-box yum update logs? Tom? I can post them somewhere. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: XO 1.75 B1 11.3.1 testing
oh, I think it was 11.3.1 build 16. My settings in Sugar says "build 16 customized" -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO 1.75 B1 build 11.3.1 testing
Some results that might be of interest. Not sure which build of 11.3.1 is installed, will confirm with Tom. Will do more extensive testing on read in sugar, but running the machine in idle with wifi on I think (will retry), brightness 0, pdf reader on -> started at 90% battery, after 6 hours, indicator said it still had 30% battery. pretty interesting battery performance compared to the XO-1. Bugs: - one time I shut down from gnome, the LED was orange and did not turn off. - Another time, Gnome, I tried attaching an external hard drive, then after selecting "safely remove hard drive" and removing the hard drive, the machine seemed to have hung. There's quite a bunch of stuff that's not available with the Fedora arm repositories (or at least that can be seen by Yum out of the box on 11.3.1) so contrary to what was mentioned by someone before, there are some challenges to getting some x86 programs & packages to run. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Award-winning energy harvester brings practical applications closer
Of interest, guys. Award-winning piezoelectric energy harvester brings practical applications closer http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-award-winning-energy-harvester-applications-closer.html -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
report: OS 11.3.0 XO-1 + Gnome + Auckland game jam?
ere too and showed the XO-1 tue last week, some newer membes were pretty ecstatic about checking it out (we had a mini netbook running different linux distros + android show and tell over at a corner, heh). Some of these guys might be interested in jamming/additional volunteer devs. Guys from Christchurch NZ Open Source Society were also in town that day, got to have interesting discussions & meet more awesome people :) http://nzoss.org.nz That's it for now. Cheers! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO 1.75 battery life?
Hi guys. Been away long, really busy. How's the battery life on the 1.75 going for Read, web browsing & suspend? (3 of the most important functions) Anyone doing tests on these yet? Read with wireless off? How about compatibility with FOSS dev tools since it's ARM & a number of those are X86-based? OLPC is one of the bastions of hope for getting "Full proper Linux" running & being developed well on ARM since that area's pretty wild west... -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Article: Why wireless mesh networks won’t save us from censorship
Interesting article from someone who's tried it with the best of people as a reactionary piece to Reddit's plans to put up a Darknet due to SOPA. Not being my area at all, what do you guys think? Why wireless mesh networks won’t save us from censorship Or “why the reddit ‘Darknet Plan’ is a fun but misguided solution to the wrong problem”. http://sha.ddih.org/2011/11/26/why-wireless-mesh-networks-wont-save-us-from-censorship/ Do the same problems/principles apply to the XOs? Thanks. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 11.3.0 -> SD Card?
On 11/4/11, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > Why not install the image in the local flash and use the SD to save the > content? > > Gonzalo Well, doesn't also work when users install a number of activities and applications if they switch to Gnome :-/ (like JDK which is now very large... Processing which can be taught to older kids is about 80MB when unpacked (minus JRE)) Another reason is that if too many sectors on local flash become bad, the ability to run from SD is a big plus - as we all know flash storage has a read-write lifespan and web-centric behavior these days tends to be cache-heavy on read-writes (browser cache, streaming video, audio, etc) As an aside, I'd like to give kudos again to you guys who keep making this happen -- the advantage of the XO over something like Android is that you can actually use it to build apps to run on itself (beyond Javascript), and nowadays, I think it's what separates "devices" from "computers" given that devices these days have insane amounts of horsepower (and apps still manage to run like crap). I think most average developers these days don't know how to optimize stuff for performance (or even care for that matter) and have gotten lazy from Moore's law. It's become more relevant today than ever now that computing has started shifting more to mobile space and it's becoming the norm, and lazy reliance on Moore's law is a vicious cycle which has a horrific effect on the environment & sustainable computing (e-waste, power crisis). Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
11.3.0 -> SD Card?
Congratulations on the release guys! Q: is there a way to install 11.3.0 on an SD card for the XO-1 like with alternate OSes on XOs instead of using the local flash storage? Unfortunately, what's left over from the 1GB is barely enough anymore once people putting a lot of content on their machines like video. With the price of SD cards being relatively more affordable in SE Asia, it's an ideal solution. Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
toolchain for sugarizing local browser apps, game jam
Hi guys. Currently in Auckland, NZ now. Went to the game developer meetup last night and tossed the idea of an OLPC game jam for students and pro/hobbyist game developers to Stephen Knightly (chairperson of the NZ Game Developers Association -> http://twitter.com/sknightly ) Problem is that there aren't enough Python coders and not everyone has the luxury of learning python. Perhaps other platforms that can run on the XO? For you guys who've been doing this, like in Nepal, Is there any good documentation out there for Sugarizing Javascript/CSS/Canvas/HTML5 apps or any "web bundles" (Java applet/Flash applet packages) in general? Something that people with *zero* Python experience and who work on Windows & Mac can use. Another reason I'm big on cross-platform stuff for the XO is that so OLPC kids do not become "digital 2nd hand digital citizens" - they should be able to enjoy the same apps "the cool rich kids" use. We're looking at a possible pitch for the idea to at the auckland game dev meetup on January as a talk. Game jams are big right now, esp with http://ludumdare.com and for people who're into the demo scene http://scene.org instead of building some stuff just to show off mad skillz for free anyway, how about tapping them and building stuff for kids? Even interactive digital art stuff? Hope everyone is well, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: harvesting energy
Wow! De ja vu! I think I asked some of the exact same questions ages ago here and have been discussing the exact same harvesting methods with friends when hanging out:) I think the biggest problem about these are currently cost and fragility/durability. The recess/lunch/playtime thing and strapping the harvesters to kids and letting them run out and play in schools I would discuss in what if scenarios with friends and they'd give me strange looks like it was child exploitation :P Soccer/basketball, I asked the exact same questions, and I think it's a question of fragility... *A LOT* of force is generated kicking and bouncing these balls. Any electronics with moving parts (which is what typical commercial personal human kinetic energy harvesters use today) I think will break if you stick them in these balls. Another problem is the mechanism for storing the electricity and then getting it out afterwards. Like if you put a depressed plug like where you pump in air. Has to be extremely robust though. IMHO it can be done though, but it sounds very expensive. The playground merry go-round etc -> that seems the easiest route, and funding for experimentation on building things like these can probably be sourced from the entities/groups/donors in charge of parks and playgrounds who're interested in that stuff for their kids. Prototypes can start as "art installations" and from there build efficiency and experimentation on how to make this kind of energy-harvesting activity fun for children and not be work and for them to do it over and over again? Most obvious is like maybe putting blinky lights and things and gameifying it somehow. The good thing with this approach is that whatever is developed + lessons in "the first world" with parks, playgrounds & schools as laboratories and can be brought to more remote areas after. The problem with going direct with these to the remote areas is that you need to be already based there and have access to all the materials & funding needed to R&D these to optimization. If you are already based in these areas however and access to materials... stuff like this can be built garage style :) An extension of this project is harvesting energy from vanity institutions like gyms or any teen-adult activity like sports. Gyms and "excess exercise" can actually worse for the environment than driving cars sometimes. Sounds counter-intuitive, but this is the Math: what is the cost of growing, raising transport, carbon emissions, farm runoff waste (factory farming & fertilizers cause a lot of environmental pollution), etc of the food you consumed and are now just burning into heat and sweat? It's why biking to work can actually be worse than using cars like say if you carpool passengers. Anyway, that way, all that "vanity" energy waste can be harvested a little, maybe. Attaching them to gym equipment would probably be easier to implement and be less damageable than with the dance/bag hiking accessory harvesters (dunnow if those can withstand high impact activities). Big question: obviously there's a lot of this excess energy among the more affluent, and for less fortunate demographics for whom wasting food & energy in such activities may not be affordable... if environmental-minded "affluent" urban citizens who can afford to engage in activities like fun runs and then actually harvest energy and store them in such devices, how do you then transport this harvested excess energy to the people who actually need them? :-/ That's the other problem of this kinetic harvesting question & commercial products... they're pretty niche to people who have the excess resources to go engage in energy-expensive activities, and as such aren't very affordable to the people who need them the most in remote areas... And yes, this is one of the biggest importances of the XO 1.75 going ARM and improving "normal" Linux (meaning not Android) ARM support -> low power consumption which is what's needed for sustainable remote ICT4D, and for the mere fact that the world is facing a fuel/energy crisis. rock on -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: OLPC 11.2.0
I'd just like to say congratulations to the team - the newly re-activated resistive stylus mode makes making accurate drawing much easier. Fantastic job! -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sugar Commander
> I have not found it to be so. I find that the Journal's search capability > is frequently more useful than a hierarchical view of my files. When I > want to look at the file system directly, apart from trying to teach it to > students, I prefer the Midnight Commander. Journal model completely breaks down once more when you have multiple files with the exact same same filenames placed in different directories :-/ Not an uncommon situation if the USB Stick/SD Card is in frequent use with more traditional systems and used to pass multiple files around. What if you also don't know the exact filename you're looking for? What if a friend hands you a USB stick containing hundreds of books arranged in different folders named by subject/topic? There is a serious information overload problem with the Journal, more on that later... > You can archive a group of files for transfer under a name that will > appear at the top of the list, or one easy to remember and search for. This doesn't work. I want to transfer PDF ebooks to XOOS-Sugar. How do I unzip them and get Sugar to recognize and index them in the journal once they're in the local filesystem? > a major reason why kids can't read or edit the source > code of the OLPC -- because it isn't visible in a journal, and if it > was in there, it would be painful or impossible to find or organize. How can we expect kids to open sourcecode and tinker with them (we have a dedicated key for that on the XO, right?) if we don't want them to think in terms of traditional files and directories, a concept that's not hard to grasp? Another problem is the accumulation of junk journal entries when the XO is in heavy use. There was mention a while back on working on the Journal's ability to automatically forget "unimportant" entries, but honestly, I don't think it's a currently implementable goal because the definition of "important" is fuzzy -> something the algorithm may arbitrarily decide should be forgotten might be important to the user. It's all about information overload, and that's the thing that heirarchical directories solve: it allows the user to browse and organize files in easily categorized presentations. How about adding the following alternate view to the Journal also? 1) The ability to view entries by activity -> extremely useful for obvious reasons when the journal gets cluttered with too many entries and the user But then, wouldn't that make the journal look more like using traditional files? How about just putting an additional tab view in the journal to allow users to view removable media as a traditional file system? Again, one shouldn't have to go into the command line and/or use Midnight Commander to perform highly used everyday tasks like transferring files -- it destroys the Sugar model and breaks basic usability/UX principles. I reiterate, those two are hacks and not real solutions - akin to opening the house/building utility fusebox & using the circuit breakers instead of using the light switches in the room to turn lights on/off. You can do it that way, but you *shouldn't*. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sugar Commander
>You can see the contents of thumb > drives and SD cards as a hierarchical file system instead of as imitating > the Journal. You can copy files into the Journal from anywhere on the file > system. It is my idea of what the Journal should be like. You can check it > out here: > *thank god* I'm sorry, I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but the flat journal is a really broken model when you stick in a USB stick with 2000+ files in heirarchical directories and you want to copy files to XO's journal (like ebook pdfs). It just becomes plain unusable. It's fine when you have a few files on your USB stick, but if it's a USB stick that's in common use with hundreds of files and you just want to sneakernet a few files to XOOS-Sugar from one machine to the XO, it's a real pain (so much so that I just backed up the contents of my USB stick, deleted everything except the files I wanted to transfer to XO-Sugar, then did the transer). Telling people to just use the command line or midnight commander is not a solution, it's a hack because you're breaking out of the sugar model/system. The better solution would be something like the above, an alternate file browser that's a native sugar app. Kudos! -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: kids + heirarchical directories
> Preschoolers, I said. Where would you have preliterate preschoolers start? Sorry, didn't catch that part :) Preschoolers are a bit more difficult to teach with this manner :) Sorry, I might be talking about something else, just mostly the concept of [heirarchical files, directories and links], not how the system actually writes to storage + binary data. Well, anyway, here's one way to work with it... Before the "mac/windows" GUI paradigm came along, all of us were working with the command line (and still are). Here's the interesting thing: command lines share a very high similarity with text adventures like the games made by infocom (Zork, etc), so this might be one effective way to get kids to start thinking of the filesystems: Describe directories as virtual rooms where kids can navigate around, and files as the contents of the "rooms". Kids have a natural tendency to explore, and this might be a more natural way to describe the filesystem. You can then describe the filesystem heirarchy as a house or building with different floors and entrances/exits to different rooms. When the filesystem is mapped to a GUI like Gnome/KDE/Mac/Windows, you can then show them how to navigate around the "rooms" (directories) and look at the objects inside the rooms. It will be a little like "Myst" adventure games where you navigate from room to room with buttons, except the kids need to use their imagination more. If you can get kids to visualize this in their minds, it could be a good way to get it to stick. When you get to first to third graders, it becomes a little simpler. Another (horror?) story (sorry about the one with 6 year old streetkids playing violent video games), my neighbor's kid and her friends are on facebook (mostly playing facebook games) and they're thereabouts in that third-grader age demographic. If these kids can navigate websites, then they can navigate filesystems. > What is the reinforcement for third-graders to learn a file system when > XOs provide the Journal? Well, the journal's not a very good place to learn filesystems. The dual boot to Gnome is though. > Who in > the preschool to third grade age group wants to know badly enough, and > why? Preschool would be a bit difficult, but age 7+ will do. When they start creating files, they can be taught how to make folders so that they can organize their files. The journal can get pretty messy when you reach logs in the hundreds. > A single folder is simple. The entire Windows or Linux file system is > insanely complex. For one thing, essential system files have different > names and locations in every version of Windows, and in many Linux > distros, and sometimes in successive versions of the same distro. > > Here is a simple exercise for you. You are to imagine that you are helping > an amazing third-grader understand how the filesystem relates to Sugar > activity development, packaging, QA, and deployment, since it is all so > simple to you. Well, this is a different story altogether. Tinkering with the engine "under the hood" + Sugar dev is a little bit scarier and might be beyond the average third-grader. Even some would adults have difficulty with this. :) For simple stuff like creating notes with a text editors & making drawings with image-editing apps, they should be good with that. (teach them directories to make their workspace tidy from all the icons/files) -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Filesystems for kids
> I don't know where you get the idea that files, hierarchical file systems, > and text editors are simple concepts. I would be willing to discuss > introducing the Linux file system in middle school, but our issue is > programming for third-graders, or even earlier. Preschoolers can grasp the > ideas behind turtle art by acting the part of the turtle. Where would you > have them begin? Filesystems are not very hard to grasp. Do not underestimate first to third-graders. I think I've mentioned this before, but here in the Philippines we have streetkids pooling money to take turns playing games in low-cost internet cafes, (rates of about $0.40 an hour or so) and I have personally seen 5-7 year old steetkids playing the 3D first-person shooter game Counter-Strike and the real-time strategy game Command and Conquer 3, things which are much much complex than simple windows folders. Third-graders are what, 8-year olds? Filesystems should be no problem for them at all. It's very simple to explain: just show them to concept of books/notebooks or folders in a shelf or bag. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
China devices, XO-3
Hi guys. As I was walking in one of the less upscale malls over here in Manila and passed the hawkers & vendors selling cheap cellphones & gadgets from China, what caught my eye was that they were now selling small netbooks, the domain of computer stores. I checked 'em out because one of them was running what appeared to be completely Win98. Wasn't able to tinker with it much, but it according to the vendor it was running WinCE (haven't touched one of those devices actually since the early 2000's) so it was very surprising to me. Is that what WinCE looks like now? Not sure what speed it was running, but I could launch the command prompt & it had the proper PC windows directory structure & stuff. It had 128MB RAM according to the stall owner and could support up to a 16GB SDCard. Not really enough to surf the bloated AJAX-laden internet we have today, but good for typing documents and you can stick in .Txt or .RTF ebooks and other stuff that could be run on a circa '96-98 PC. At $90 it was very interesting. This was what I was talking about when I said OLPC will be battling it out with cheap devices from China, so OLPCs needs to step up the game, especially with applications. Here's another thing that caught my eye: beside it was an Android tablet ($80) that was turned into a netbook in a way similar to the OLPC by having an external keyboard attached. You know how most people now carry their iPads or Samsung Galaxy tabs in leather cases? That was the clever part with this Android "netbook": It was packaged in a leather case which you could stand at an angle and on the opposite side of the case was a USB keyboard that was attached to one of the Android tablet's USB ports with a thin unobtrosive cable. Pretty clever :) Anyway, that's something that could possibly done with the XO-3 in the future... because typing on tablets still currently suck and can't beat keyboard speed :P (touchscreen really does change the game so can't wait for the XO-3!) Anyway, these devices don't have all the features that the XOs do, but they've done it: the sub-$100 laptop. Congratulations OLPC. You got the ball rolling and finally the world has it. It can be done, it has been done. Success! :) With some time + economies of scale, I believe OLPC in Peru can do it too. To more innovation. Rock on! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 -> Flash, Java?
> Carlos -- please make sure you chase Adobe on this topic. And Skype. > > m Will re-initiate talks w/ Adobe folks. Btw, congrats on the recent developments in South America guys! Really cool stuff! :) -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO-1.75 -> Flash, Java?
Will Flash Flash Player & Java SE (not JavaME) run on the XO-1.75, it being non-x86? For Android, Flash Player requires an ARMv7 (Cortex) + to run. Flash Player 9 was running on the N900 which ran Maemo. Video calls & streaming over internet is now one of the most important uses for developing countries and for children to talk to family members like parents who work overseas like here in the Philippines. Aside from Skype, Flash facilitates this for streaming. AFAIK Youtube will also be rolling out more livestreaming soon and will probably do full streaming for anyone a la Ustream in the future. By the way, one of the routes I pass is a depressed area/squatters area and there are at least 6 internet cafes along the 1.5km stretch of road I pass. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO-1 hangs upon yum update in Gnome
Hi guys. Running 10.1.3 on an XO-1. When I do a: > su - > yum update The machine will download the info + list of files to be update, asks if I want to continue, then when I say yes, at around the 3rd (out of 23 updates), the machine will go sluggish and more or less hang/be unusable and I have to do a hard power-off. Any tips? Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
animated doodle infographic: changing education paradigms
Hi guys! Please check this video on a neat talk given by Sir Ken Robinson at RSA, illustrated by progressive animated doodling with a sharpie on a whiteboard. RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash
>> I successfully installed the latest version of Flash on an XO-1.5 running >> 10.1.3 (860). fI followed the instructions on this page: >> >> >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash Hi guys. Sorry for the long hiatus. I had some very personal issues I had to attend to, and I haven't been able to update the wiki. Anyway, i'd like to open source this game I did some time ago and give OLPC and its affiliates the rights to just use it. Not GPL, more of creative commons. http://www.object404.com/games/wordblix It runs on the XO-1, but slow since it's unoptimized (will need to change all vector art to Bitmap in order to speed things up, tested on Latest XO-1 OS inside Opera Browser in Gnome). It's going to be better as an AIR app though, as it can be installed locally on everyone's XO, and will probably have better performance than in a browser (not sure about how this will work out with Sugar though). I'm really swamped at work right now, but I'd like to clean up the source files a little bit (strip out the ad engine, replace assets with bitmaps, etc) before I release the source files because it's a bit of an embarassing hack job as it currently is. It'll take around 3 months to do this because of my schedule. The dictionary used inside can be swapped out for a different one, just not sure how it'll work out with european characters as I only built it for the US alphabet. In the meantime, maybe someone would like to come up with re-skinning concepts to rename and re-brand it as an OLPC game? I can just stick those inside the game once I get cracking on it again. The nice thing is that it would run on any platform that supports the latest Flash. Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to, it will not run on Gnash because it's in AS3. Every bit of speed counts when you've got lower-spec machines, and AVM2 can be up to 100x or so faster than AVM1. Also, XML is hell to parse in AS2. AS3 makes it a joy to work with. Would really appreciate it too if someone could post instructions on how to install AIR on the latest versions of the OS as I haven't had much luck. As I said, I'm not much of a Linux person, and it's a little hard absorbing everything because of time constraints. Learning gets a little harder as you get older, and sometimes, the brain can't absorb information as easily as little kids can anymore. Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: harvesting energy
If we're talking about kids powering their own devices, I think the way to go is to turn "work" into play. The merry go round/hard bar swing would fit in this category. So basically, let's look at activities where energy exerted is ambient anyway? What I mean is that the energy is being used up by the kids anyway, so why not tap into those. An example is to give them some variant of those "dance straps" meant to power cellphones before they go off to run and play during recess and lunch break. One way to tap into this would be to create new playground installation toys which can be used for harvesting energy. Q: how much abuse can a kinetic energy harvester withstand? A soccer of basketball has a lot of kinetic and impact energy bouncing around. I'd imagine that's too much abuse though, and whatever harvesting mechanism would break from the forces. Would piezo work there? I think I remember a concept where a dance floor would have piezo harvesters and when people dance on the tiles, they light up? Another problem is battery... how efficient and how much can a battery really store from these small bursts of energy? Sorry guys, I can't do math anymore since I got traumatized in college, so would appreciate it if these were translated into equation-less layman's terms. (btw, really appreciate the PDF human-powered energy harvesting! It was a really nice surprise that some of the solutions I'd been thinking off for years were in there :) ) -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: foot power
Hey guys. I haven't taken that much look into foot pedal chargers and do know what their internals look like -- I just remembered coming across the link I posted so I shared The efficient way to do a foot pedal powered generator would probably be to have a small weighted wheel spin as a dynamo when you step on it? You just keep pumping on the pedal to keep the wheel spinning and it shouldn't take much effort, the wheel's momentum should keep power flowing. I have a small LED camping flashlight that does the same thing. There's a push grip on the side, and then when you squeeze it, it makes a wheel inside spin to generate power and it's pretty easy to use. Yep, raising your thigh with your toes down and stepping down with your heel is so much easier than pumping with the foot muscles. It doesn't take much effort and a number of people I know do it when they're excitedly thinking or discussing stuff when brainstorming while sitting down -> push leg up with ball of foot, step down with heel. Well, how about this ridiculous idea? Hanging out in friends having fun thinking of hypothetical situations, one subject that came up was "What if... we strap kinetic energy harvesting generators to kids when recess starts, then just letting them loose in the playground and put all energy to good use? -> kinetic harvesters connected to small batteries to be charged, to be collected after playtime" :) http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/24/oranges-dance-charge-finally-makes-dance-meaningful (I don't know what the internals of that thing look like) Anyway, basically, kids have so much energy and just it up when they run around having fun. Why not tap that as a power source? Q: how much power would something like that be able to harvest if you strap a few of them to someone playing basketball for 2 hours? Ideal placement would be angle and wrists as those will have the most motion. One of the bigger problems of that set up I think is that the forearms and feet generate so much force when rapidly changing directions that the device would break. (one I'm thinking of is something like one of my other camping flashlights -> has a magnet in the middle, generates power when you shake it & the magnet moves up and down the tube). -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Version numbers for XO-1/XO-1.5 vs XO-1.75 releases
> Subject: > OTOH, we could drop the "year/major" token and replace it with a > Fedora token, leading to "F14.1" (or perhaps F14.1.1) which I think is > a better name. Tracks what we actually do. This sounds the like least confusing option IMHO. People new to the OLPC software ecosystem will have a better time understanding the OS version if it's like this and help standard linux users "at a glance" on the name. Downloading different packages built for different base OS (Fedora, Ubuntu) versions has been a problem for me. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: foot pedal power
>> Hey Wad, re: human power, there's at least one company that makes the >> mobile foot pedal charger already, and is marketing it to laptop and >> cellphone users. On 1/19/11, Martin Langhoff wrote: > Do you have a google? Apply to wiki.laptop.org for best results :-) > > m Here's one that's less bulky than the Freeplay Weza that's already on the wiki. http://www.easy-energy.biz/products/yogen-max/ http://liliputing.com/2009/09/yogen-max-providing-pedal-power-for-your-laptop.html I can add it to the wiki, but where should I add it? Here ? http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Battery_and_power http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Peripherals#Power Should it have its own page like the Weza? Would it be better to make a new page cataloguing known foot pedal solutions out there? Thanks! Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: request: Release/build naming consistency
Long filenames are patented ??? googles... o_o what the... http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_companies_sign_microsoft_patent_protection_pacts http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/04/german-appeal-court-upholds-microsoft-long-file-name-patent.ars http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5758352.html Hmm... http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/clever-linux-folk-find-way-around-microsoft-fat-file-system-patent-2009073/ Flawed though... Well, one can always increment using the alphabet instead of just numerals for point releases... -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
request: Release/build naming consistency
Hi guys. Is it possible to "unify" the release names? It becomes extremely confusing for wiki navigators, wiki editors trying to document pages, people looking to update their software, or people just plain looking for information. For example, can build 860 just be renamed to 10.1.3 ? Or the filename become: os10_1_3.img os10_1_3.img.fs.zip ? What is the reason behind the disparaity of release/build names? What's the naming convention? This is a really big source of confusion for users, and it would be much better to just unify release/build names (maybe tack on an extra decimal point for WIP builds) Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: advantage of full linux over android for OLPC
> They are dev machines. There are people using them for exactly that. > They also support the full java stack although its probably somewhat > slow on the XO-1. > > Peter Yeah, I was using Processing on the XO 1. It worked fine under Sugar, you just had to launch it via command line and it was a little tricky with the windows. Kudos on the switch and getting stuff to run on ARM. Low power = big big deal! (btw, is the battery tech still the same between the XO-1, 1.5 and 1.75)? Anyway, the next someone asks about "why not android?" the simple answer is that we want users to be able to be fully able to generate content for a wider variety of platforms (Python, C, C++, Java, etc), and full linux has tons of tools at users' disposal :) -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
advantage of full linux over android for OLPC
While browsing the new slashdot coverage on OLPC, there was a very good point made regarding Android vs. full Linux: There's no JRE/JDK running on Android, so that's a plus for not switching to Android, given that so many cool stuff is being taught/done in Java. (i.e. http://processing.org ) It also locks out university students/scholars (who are in need of low-cost affordable laptops for education too) and budding students who want to learn computer science. XO machines should also be capable of being dev machines that are capable of building apps for the XO (both for students and adult content creators (teachers, volunteers)), instead of just "consumer" machines like the iPad & Android devices. (developing apps for different platforms using Android devices still seems some ways off) -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OLPC XO 1.75 on Slashdot again
Coverage on Slashdot again! http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=11/01/17/2133226 Hey Wad, re: human power, there's at least one company that makes the mobile foot pedal charger already, and is marketing it to laptop and cellphone users. It looks pretty efficient compared to the yoyo-dual strings (using 2 arms so one can charge during both clockwise and counterclockwise) and already natural to people since sewing machines have used foot pedal power for over 100(?) years now? -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 A2 information
Accelerometer? Sweet! :) Really neat for experiments and alternate app interfaces/controls > > XO-1.75 A2 bringup is currently ongoing and going well. > > I just added some documentation to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_1.75_A2 > including an annotated photo of the A2 motherboard. > > Cheers, > wad -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OLPC on Slashdot again
Congrats guys! Kudos on the work on switching to ARM. Comments are a little more sane and less FUD-y now on Slashdot: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=11/01/08/0229206 This would be a good time for people here to hop on and comment on the Slashdot thread to help educate/evangelize to the geek world more on what OLPC's been doing (and stop FUD from resurfacing again). FUD has really generated a lot of badwill for OLPC, this'd be a good opportunity to help rectify that. Have a great weekend! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Free MeeGo IdeaPad S10-3t for developers as Intel get open-source serious
Hey guys. Looks like Lenovo's making a major push for developers too a la contributors' program in that they're giving away units to developers (at the conference) Free MeeGo IdeaPad S10-3t for developers as Intel get open-source serious http://www.slashgear.com/free-meego-ideapad-s10-3t-for-developers-as-intel-get-open-source-serious-15114066/ The Lenovo IdeaPad is particularly interesting because it has almost the exact same form factor as the XO with the rotating foldable screen that makes it go into tablet mode, except that it has a touchscreen. Again, IMHO (and usability-wise) it would be better to ship the 1.75 with a touchscreen as the XO is awkward to use in tablet mode without it (when using the Read activity, I keep having to go back to lifting the screen and using the touchpad to click around the menus) Looks like a number of manufacturers are now doing unit giveaways to attract developer mindshare: attendees at Adobe Max 2010 each got a free Motorola Droid 2, RIM announced free Blackberry Playbook tablets for developers of accepted AIR apps at the Blackberry app store, and then now Lenovo giving away MeeGo IdeaPads to conference attendees. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 progress, touchscreen, developers, audience
>> IMHO the next XO would be irrelevant to the public without it >> as it would offer no significant change outside the hood from the 1.5. > > No, but an XO-1.75 that uses half the power and therefore provides twice the > battery life is an XO that is now available to many children who don't have > the electrons to use XO-1.5 machines, or for whom a 4-hour battery life is > inadequate but an 8-hour battery life would be quite useful. > > - Ed Well, that is very big :) The battery life of the Kindle, iPad & other tablets are incredible. Here's the thing though: The XO is now competing with the existing and growing slew of Android Tablets from China that cost $100 and under. Here's just one for example: http://micgadget.com/3210/the-cheapest-android-tablet-you-can-get-in-china/ Add to that the growing legion of Android developers - as I said before, OLPC needs to attract more 3rd party developers as it's still lacking apps. IMHO, something tablets cannot compete with that XO can do is the reconfigurable dual keyboard-touchscreen setup. Touchscreens are complete gamechangers, but for typing papers (and coding! I hope underprivileged kids grow up and start playing with code early!) - I think virtual keyboards are up to par yet. Although adding touch would significantly add to the cost, it will help developers get more used to and familiar the multi-touch paradigm. This way also, devs will be having huge familiarity with it once the XO-3 rolls out. Well, OLPC is still setting trends :) RIM/Blackberry is already starting to do a "contributors' program": at Adobe Max 2010 (http://max.adobe.com), Co-CEO Mike Lazaridis announced that developers who get their Adobe AIR apps approved for the Blackberry App store would be eligible for free Blackberry Playbook tablets. Apps, apps apps! For Children, OLPC is competing with other platforms that have a growing library of kid-friendly apps. With regards to 3rd party developers, perhaps a wide press release making the contributors' program more visible might help? OLPC really, really needs more evangelism as sad to say, it has lost a lot of mindshare over the past few years due to FUD, and it really needs to be more competitive. Another thing I find sad is people raving on the different screen technologies like with Kindle & its "incredible sunlight readability" when Pixel Qi much, much superior. OLPC needs to win more hearts and minds. I really don't think OLPC can win the price war anymore, so I think the focus should be building on and carrying on with its core strength of producing a superior innovative platform. Another big thing is the hackability, customizability & ownability that corporate outfits like Apple will not let you do with their locked-down devices. Another food for thought: Whenever I bring the XO-1 with me and friends who have kids see it, first reaction is: "I want one for my kid. Where can I get one?" Sad part is that currently, the answer is "You can't." I know that the G1G1 program had many problems, but the Philippines is so near to China & Taiwan that customs + taxes aside, it would be ridiculously easy logistics-wise to ship units here compared to the U.S. and Europe. G1G1 would not be feasible here though, because it's really too expensive for people who can pay here. Would it be possible to do a small "available to consumers" Buy 1 Get 1 (B1G1) pilot here for a "cost + some margins to help support OLPC" program? A big help to evangelize OLPC would be to actually get people to experience it and own it. Another thing that's completely wrong: Reverse-gadget envy - that underprivileged kids & public schools can get something for free that taxpayers pay for when governments shell out for XO units, and yet tax-paying citizens cannot get their hands on them and provide them to their own kids. I think it's also sad and wrong for OLPC to just surrender a big audience demographic to other netbook makers as some people here in the list have suggested because the XOs still pack features that are unavailable with other platforms. These can be remedied, right? I love OLPC and the platform it provides. I want it to succeed and keep leading the revolution. I hope I didn't offend anyone, but this is insight coming from a member of a third world country where poverty is a big big problem and ordinary citizens struggle to make ends meet. Congrats again with the progress! Rock on! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1.75 progress
Yes, the touchscreen is very important and is a complete gamechanger. The natural reaction for everyone is to try to use the screen as a touchscreen, especially children nowadays. Painting activites like colors are more natural and it becomes easier to use point-and click games/activities that don't use the keyboard with a touchscreen. Touchscreens are just so... natural, ergonomic and, usable. Here's another big, big, big thing with regards to schoolwork: With a touchscreen, you can draw diagrams & doodles when taking notes which are essential in school + the creative process and are why laptops as they were cannot replace notebooks. It's a big shame the stylus for the XO-1 was never built and functioned. That would have solved it. Also, everyone here has to remember that despite the world going digital, penmanship is still a skill young children need to master, especially for every different culture - moreso chinese with its complex writing system. Writing is just too awkward with the touchpad. Did I mention drawing & coloring is an important skill for young children? (I want to build a coloring book app - I can easily do it in Flash/AIR) If the stylus will still not be made to run on the XO-1.75, a touchscreen is a *must*-have. It's just broken without it and will make the machine a bit less relevant. IMHO it's better to delay the release of the 1.75 and force putting in a touchscreen. With the onslaught of cheap Android tablets coming from China, IMHO the next XO would be irrelevant to the public without it as it would offer no significant change outside the hood from the 1.5. There's just so many creative things app-wise one can do with multitouch :-/ That being said, congrats on the progress! -Naz > > Back in July there were plans to have a touchscreen in the XO-1.75: > > "the XO-1.75 will have a touchscreen, as will future OLPC tablets based > on > its design" > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-July/025376.html > > So this has been tabled? > > - Bert - -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Learning by Playing
Hi guys. Interesting paradigm-changing case studies of video game use in elementary classrooms + curricula & how today's tech-savvy children are different. (NY Times free registration required) Learning by Playing: Video Games Win a Beachhead in the Classroom http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/magazine/19video-t.html I don't agree with some of the things in the article (horrific stuff such as doing away with handwriting and spelling), but there there are many interesting tidbits in there such as “failure-based learning”: Quote: "children who persist in playing a game are demonstrating a valuable educational ideal. “They play for five minutes and they lose,” he says. “They play for 10 minutes and they lose. They’ll go back and do it a hundred times. They’ll fail until they win.” He adds: “Failure in an academic environment is depressing. Failure in a video game is pleasant. It’s completely aspirational.” - On the subject of handwriting, I think the rise of tablets & touchscreens may bring a new revival of penmanship (at least with block print). The increasing non-standardization of keyboards due to the plethora of computer & device form factors is actually destroying touch-typing & making it obsolete. (IMHO, mobile is the future of computing) Don't you guys find the system of emphasizing fast typing on a layout purposely made to slow down typing absurd? (QWERTY). The wonderful thing a virtual keyboard provides is the ability to re-map/reskin keyboards. I wonder how fast kids would be able to type if it became ABCD instead of QWERTY? (I miss the Texas Instrument Speak & Spell) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_%26_Spell_(toy) Oddly enough, I text faster on a traditional cellphone keypad (which is technically ABCD) than on a Blackberry-style qwerty phone keypad due to muscle memory & layout confusion. Anyway, I've come across astounding "kids + computers" stuff over here myself. While walking around the talipapa market in a visit to Boracay island here in the Philippines last month, I saw a tiny 6-year old local playing Counter-Strike deathmatch ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-strike ) and holding his own against his older friends (ranging from 8-11 year olds) in a small internet cafe. I'll upload the video to youtube once I find my phone data cable. A couple of years ago, I also saw three 8-year old street kids pool together money to play Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Red_Alert_3 ) taking turns hot-seat style at a cheap internet cafe Cue gasps of horror aside on videogame violence, I mean wow. At 8 years old, I could barely grasp running and jumping at the same time with Super Mario Brothers. Just goes to show how flexible kids are on computers and how they can easily get around supposedly "complex" interfaces. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OLPC XO-2 -> Acer dual touchscreen
And here we go: http://www.techreviewsource.com/blog/?p=781 Wonder what kind of support Win7 is using for this, as in how to customize the keyboard & pop up interface widgets there. The best part of dual touchscreens is the new kinds of interface changes and toys you can make... -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: multitouch
a) Ratio - 4:3 -> is it possible to use a more normal/accepted resolution that actual monitors use so that in the future, if emulation works well on PCs, developers w/o XO machines can design their apps/GUI better? Like say 1280x960 or 1280x800 (WXGA) instead of 1200x900? That's not so big a difference except that 1280x960 or 1280x800 are resolutions that common monitors can actually use. b) Capacitance vs. pressure IMHO, touch with any kind of object w/ pressure rather than capacitance which requires a human finger or a frozen sausage as stylus ( http://www.tuaw.com/2010/02/12/frozen-sausage-as-iphone-stylus/ ) is better. One of *the* killer apps for touchscreen is drawing, and using a stylus for precision is more natural for proper drawing than using fingers a la finger painting. The thing is, if you use your fingers, you won't be seeing the actual X-Y pixel you're drawing on becaue your finger is covering it, and there's the problem of which X_Y pixel is being detected by the OS since a finger is so wide. Seriously, drawing on a touchscreen rocks. I use the Colors activity of the XO http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Colors! on my Nintendo DS http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Colors! and drawing with the stylus on a touchscreen is an absolute joy. Wacom sells their Cintiq touchscreen drawing panels for about $1000 and up. You bring that ability to draw the XO with the proper app, and interest will skyrocket! (I can write one in AIR. It'll be slower than native code, but ought to work) cheers! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: multi-touch
can't wait for this enough to happen. Is it possible for this to arrive in the XO 1.75? Hope it's done a la Notion Ink Adam w/ a Pixel Qi multitouch screen :) Tablet mode on the XO just screamed for a touch interface. First instinct when using it is to try to see if touchscreen worked :) it gets a little awkward when you have to use the mouse in tablet mode too. Anyway, that being said, F12 has multi-touch right? How many points does it support? If possible, go for a minimum of 5 touch points capability, which is what Apple has I think. I can't wait to play with multi-touch w/Flash 10.1 -- I want to make a musical instrument/toy using multi-touch + Flash/AIR. FAQ on Flash multi-touch: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1678 It supports any number of touch points limited only by what the system allows. Does anyone know how many inputs Android can recognize if that's where XO-3 is going? (and possibly XO-1.75 if it's going to be an ARM architecture) -Naz ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Flash,Gnash,AIR: which builds to test against?
Hi guys! There's a number of different builds up on the OLPC pages right now: * OLPC 802 (Sugar 0.84) * OLPC F11 - OS11 * Paraguay F11 + Sugar 0.88 * Sugar Labs F11 OS11-OS15 For the purposes of keeping the Flash Platform wikis updated, which are the snapshots I should use for long-term testing of Flash, Gnash & AIR? Should I still test against 802 or should I just test against the Paraguay build? I have 2 XO-1s I can do testing on, with a third one is on loan to a Phlashers teammate who's also doing some testing. We're going to install Adobe Flash on 2 of the Machines and Gnash on the 3rd machine. Which OS builds should we install on the 3 machines given the above configurations? I'm thinking 802 + Adobe Flash, F11 Paraguay + Adobe Flash, F11 Paraguay + Gnash. Are these the optimal configuations we can test against for the purposes of reporting back results on the wikis given 3 XO-1 machines? We'll be using latest stable builds of Flash, Gnash & AIR. Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 build + Gnash update
> Well, in Paraguay, I understand that it is an official build, as large > deployments can sign their own builds. Hi Walter! Thanks again, but I was thinking of global official builds rather than localized builds like with Paraguay (even though from the looks of things, it's the most advanced build right now?) > I don't know the exact time > frame for OLPC's official release of their F11 builds for the XO 1.0 > and XO 1.5, but I suspect it is going to happen soon. cjb will know. Q: Does this mean that the Sugar-only builds are going to be deprecated in favor of the F11 builds? (which seem to still have issues and so do not qualify as "Stable builds" yet) Back to the topic: For those in charge of the official stable build: http://download.laptop.org/xo-1/os/official/ Is it possible to just release a new official version of 802 with one simple change -- just package the latest stable version of Gnash with it? (I think Rob Savoye has such a build and has it working well). This should help solve some of the Flash issues and should warrant a little less complaints. Regards, -Naz ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe AIR troubles
> We actually got in touch with some of the Flash people at > Adobe and they're interesting in looking into things. bah, typo! *interested* in looking into things ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
AIR + Flash/AIR issues wikis
Hi guys. Just created the wiki page for Adobe AIR and will populate it with data. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_AIR For those of you who've successfully installed AIR, can you email me in private with the steps you went through (and on which OS/image) so I can put it on the Wiki? Also, there was a discussion before here on the list about how the AIR installer was placing the files in the wrong directories during installation. For those guys in the know, can you PM me so I can place details on the AIR Issues page? http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_AIR_Issues Next, I'll update the Flash issues wiki page [http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash_Issues] with data from the bug tracker over the next few days. http://dev.laptop.org/search?q=adobe+flash There's probably more Flash bugs listed at the bug tracker, but using just "Flash" as a keyword search turns up too many other unrelated pages (like Flash as in memory storage). Hope to make the Flash & AIR issue wikis more presentable by next week so that the Adobe folks can start looking into them. (they'll probably also need access to XO machines) -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: create new XO-1 build with Gnash update?
Thanks Walter, Mikus! Sorry I need to clarify. What I meant was create a new *official "stable build"* for the XO-1 with a newer version of Gnash pre-installed. One that does not need a developer key. I installed the Paraguay build about a month ago but there were still some bugs. http://people.sugarlabs.org/~smparrish/ -> That's the one, right? -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- poverty is violence ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
create new XO-1 build with Gnash update?
Hi guys! Last update for the XO-1 was build 802 from over a year ago. http://download.laptop.org/xo-1/os/official/ Is it possible to release a new official build with the latest version of Gnash included? >From what I gather from Rob Savoye of Gnash, he has a build of the XO OS with most of the Gnash issues worked out because it's simply using a newer Gnash build. There's a bit of frustration coming from the Gnash team because a lot of issues with Gnash stem from the latest XO OS build having a very old version. regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- "poverty is violence" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe AIR troubles
>Hi guys, >I'm developing flash applications on OLPC using adobe air. We have some >troubles with our flash application when we are playing sounds : randomly, >the sound channel is down, and we need to restart application to have sounds >again. We have noticed that it's happen after the standby of the laptop... >Any idea on how to solve this problem? Hey Thomas. We actually got in touch with some of the Flash people at Adobe and they're interesting in looking into things. Sorry for the long hiatus guys, had some personal things to attend to. I've created and started editing 2 wiki pages to get the ball rolling again on Flash platform + XO issues: *Adobe Flash Issues http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash_Issues *Adobe AIR Issues http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_AIR_Issues Adobe peeps said they'd look into things but didn't know where to start. Wiki's the best way to keep them updated and to organize known issues. Thomas, can you email me what's happening and I'll try to put it in the Wiki? I'll PM you too on installing AIR on the XO (I haven't had much success). Other guys who have bugs/quirks on Adobe AIR/Flash, e-mail me too so I can compile them and put them on the above wikis. Thanks! -Naz ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Google just open-sourced VP8 codec!
Hi guys! This is big! Google just open-sourced the On2 VP8 codec and formed a consortium around it: http://webmproject.blogspot.com/ http://www.webmproject.org/ the beta/nightly builds of Chrome, Firefox & Opera now support it as and HTML5 video tag codec and Flash will support it. Great news for the Open web! HTML5 video codec impasse is broken can finally move forward! I'm wondering at its CPU requirements though. Back when Macromedia was licensing the VP6 codec from On2 , they had the option to license the newer VP7 instead, but they went with VP6 because it was more CPU-friendly. VP7 compressed video better at higher quality, but it was more CPU-hungry. Given that history, there's a possibility that high-quality VP8 video might not run fast on the XO-1. Q: Has anyone here tried playing high-quality/resolution H.264 on the XO-1? What was your experience? Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlasheers.com -- "poverty is violence" -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
_Why: A Tale Of A Post-Modern Genius
Hi guys. Please check out this article: _Why: A Tale Of A Post-Modern Genius "Why the Lucky Stiff (or _Why for short) was one of the brightest and most inspiring programmers in activity. He became famous through a series of blogs and through the incredible amount of open-source projects that he maintained over the course of more than seven years. _Why’s popularity grew along with the Ruby programming language’s popularity. When the Rails hype took off in 2005, a great number of young developers started looking to learn about Ruby, and that’s when most of them found Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby, a Creative Commons book in both HTML and PDF that embodied all of its author’s characteristics: an uneasy artistic mind with a different take on what programming is all about." Read the article here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/05/15/why-a-tale-of-a-post-modern-genius -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlasheers.com -- "poverty is violence" -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11 on XO-1: keyboard + mouse not responding.
Hey Paul! > there are a bunch of "F11 for XO-1" releases around these days -- can > you be specific about what you installed? I'm using os11.img from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Rawhide-XO. > to clarify your symptoms: after the keyboard/touchpad stop working, > the system will detect a USB keyboard and mouse when they're attached? Yup! The system will detect the USB Keyboard + Mouse, and then built-in keyboard + trackpad still won't work. > as hal suggested, be sure to disable automatic power management > in the control panel. unlike previous XO-1 releases, the default > configuration is to do aggressive idle-suspend It seems to now be working properly now that I disabled automatic power management in Sugar. Now to test Flash, Gnash, etc on F11/XO... Thanks! -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlasheers.com -- "poverty is violence" -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: F11 on XO-1: keyboard + mouse not responding.
Ok. After a couple of reboots unplugged from the power supply, keyboard & trackpad worked in Sugar again. When I switched to Gnome, both stopped working again. Attaching an external keyboard and mouse work, but it's irritating that the built-in ones don't. I'd like to hear ideas before I reflash the XO & reinstall F11 so you guys can track this bug. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlasheers.com -- "poverty is violence" -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
F11 on XO-1: keyboard & trackpad stopped working
Hi guys. I just installed the official Fedora 11 you guys are working on for the XO-1. For some bizarre reason, the trackpad and keyboard stopped working on both Gnome and Sugar. Sticking a USB mouse works, and if I press ESC during boot to show the "OK" prompt, I'm able to type fine at the boot console though. Trackpad and keyboard work fine too when I stick in Teapot's Ubuntu 8.10 on an SD card. Any ideas what happened? Last night after I freshly installed Fedora, the trackpad was working (albeit flakily... doing the four-finger corner keys salute wouldn't reset the trackpad). -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- core team member phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters http://www.phlasheers.com -- "poverty is violence" -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Flash Lite Community for XO, Gnash, Free RIA Tools
Hi guys! Just made an invite to the Flash Lite community to work on Flash for OLPC and am starting to get a trickle of volunteers. I take it back about AS2 as a dead-end technology that should be abandoned. It's much easier to learn for newbie-coders & AJAX/DHTML devs since it's Javascript (AS3 syntax is more or less Java), and all the current phones that have Flash Lite still use AS2. Processing non-coder enthusiasts should have an easy time w/ AS2. Also, Gnash support is important and bleeding edge SWFs do not run on Gnash. Also, forwarding from Rob Savoye of Gnash. This is very important for Flash Dev on the XO, can you guys see about this and getting the Gnash packages on the latest OLPC builds updated? I'm not on the Gnash dev list since the 99% of the under-the-hood Gnash discussions are gibberish to me, so maybe John Gilmore can liaise. >From Rob: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/Flash_Gamedev > > (sorry, needs to be updated. haven't touched it in a while. will try to > > update it this weekend) -Naz I see one thing I should point out on this page, Gnash 0.8.3 is ridiculously ancient, and should be avoided. Much of the problems of Gnash on the XO are because the packages on the XO are *years* out of date. :-( If you'd upgrade, most of the problems mentioned go away. This has been a continual problem with the XO and Gnash functionality. Seriously, 0.8.3 is so old, I wish it wasn't shipped at all as it just makes for a bad experience. So I have an rpm repository where I build weekly packages for the XO. Go to http://www.getgnash.org/packages/, (the XO packages are listed at the bottom) These have fully working sound, etc... much better AVM1/swf v9 support, better video performance, many compatibility bugs fixed, etc... I strongly recommend using a newer Gnash, it just works so much better... Just as a note, the Gnash team loves bug reports, we just prefer they're on a recent version... Bug reports can go here: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=gnash - rob - --- Finally, I just remembered: Flex Builder (the Flex AS3 IDE, aka Flash Builder) is free for non-profit educational use. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/free/index.html "We provide free copies of Adobe Flash Builder 4 Standard to: Students, faculty and staff of eligible educational institutions" There's a Linux beta of Flex Builder, not updated to the latest version, but good enough for a lot of stuff I think. Haven't tried it out since I'm not really a Flex Person, I use the Flash CS Pro IDE mostly for my projects. I'm asking if OLPC & the deployment teams as well as the kids are elegible for this. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- Core Team Member Phlashers: Philippine Flash Actionscripters http://www.phlashers.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: FLASH on sugar 0.82 and XO 1.0
> exist some study for adobe FLASH on sugar 0.82 and XO 1.0 ? > requirements? considerations to develop activities? Hola Esteban! Check out the Wiki entry we started here on Flash Edu-game dev for the XO: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/Flash_Gamedev We'll be updating the wiki soon. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open source vs. constructionist learning
> We're not demanding anyone is giving away anything for free. We simply > choose to do that ourselves, and we want to enable others to do the same, so > we make available everything someone else might need to build on our work. > But nobody is forcing you to do as we do, so don't whine. I'm fine with open-sourcing my own stuff and I have been. The argument is relevant because if the kids access 3rd-party flash games on the web, they won't have access to the sourcecode. The VM brings the exact same situation as Apple allowing "unapproved" apps running on the iPhone. If we're talking about OLPC's official policy for apps that will be distributed in official main builds, there are no arguments about open source. Local deployments are free to do with their machines as they want. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: open source vs. constructionist learning
"How could you justify to not include source code? That's evil. As evil as suggesting the use of a platform that children would be unable to use if they wished to." -- I'm really sorry for cluttering the list again, but I had to immediately reply to this. Some developers need to put food on the table and feed themselves and their family. Do you think that's evil? Do you think that it's fair that the legendary genius Sean T. Cooper who made http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(video_game) at Bullfrog who's now making a humble living as an indie Flash game developer (http://www.games.seantcooper.com) is forced to give away for free to everyone his isometric game engine that he's selling (http://www.games.seantcooper.com/Develop.aspx) which he worked on for over a decade? He's already freely giving to everyone via tutorials & free as in beer games to enjoy, but must you take away his livelihood? Not every developer can be as fortunate to be as successful as John Carmack to afford a Ferrari and play with actual spacecraft to give away his game engines for free (we owe a great debt to this man). - About code/apps as art: can't you respect the artistic wishes of an artist? Is it evil for a magician to keep secret the tricks of his trade? Code is art. If you are the author, it contains a part of your soul. Is it fair to invade JD Salinger's privacy against his wishes and demand he give an interview just to get ? - I agree about the security issues of not having the sourcecode for review. That is why it is dangerous for governments to be completely reliant on closed-source technologies. How about this: provide the sourcecode/files for private review to the governing body (like the OLPC dev team or organizers of local deployments) to make sure it doesn't contain malware, backdoors, etc and plays nice with the system, but not open to the whole world because it can also be exploited for the wrong reasons (hacking, kid cheating without learning (my multiple choice math puzzle example)) or prevent the author from feeding himself? Or maybe for the author to give his utmost assurance that the software contains no malware if he/she is unable to legally give reveal the sourcecode or if it will truly impair his ability to feed and clothe himself and his family. Is that acceptable? - This is a hypothetical situation, but what if none of you guys or the kids speak the language the program was written in? What if the app was written in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge ? Aside from the admiration of the sheer craftsmanship and awesome display of a true work of horror, what good is it to anyone who wants to patch and improve the software? - What I think is evil is people who freely take other peoples' work and not give anything back in return, use it for good/productively, give credit or contribute to the community. For example, pirates and black-hat hackers who do it for profit and not for reasons of limited finances or without the intention of giving back something in return when they have the opportunity to do so later on. I'm sorry if I offended you guys, but I hope you can see that some of my points are very valid. Mabuhay. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
errata
sorry to bother you guys again. Sorry for the mixup, the game Snow Farm plagiarized by the Beijing Olympic Committee dev team is by The Pencil Farm, not Ferry Halim. Pencil Farm is one of the other guys plagiarized too. I was in a rush, lack sleep and just quick-copy pasted from years-ago-memory-google without re-reading the article. Here's more about it: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2008/03/new-beijing-summer-olympics-event-software-piracy.ars "Yes, it seems that you have a skill you can't yet use, because someone else is needed first to prepare something you can build on. If there's any way we're stopping that someone else from working, let us know." Hi James! It's more of needing help documenting the technical hurdles we need to overcome. So we can forward them to Adobe & they can give us help. Busy with work, will set up/edit the Wikis later in the week, give a buzz & hope those of you guys in the know can help document what's needed. "I look for function, not for attractive interfaces." And that is where the open source community fails. You guys have to realize how important UX is (user experience), it's why the mac & iphone succeeds despite their hardware being "inferior"/less bang for buck. I know a lot of us would rather date the less attractive girl over the dumb blonde, but are you guys saying the smart blonde is less hawt? (go Natalie Portman!) Quick question and raise of hands: who else here is a professional designer? Talk to you guys later in the week. Good luck with the release! -n -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
open source vs. constructionist learning
Questions: A) Syntax vs. Algorithms Scenario 1: complex XO game is built in C, binary, complete C sourcecode + all source files + minimal documentation are included. Kid only understands Python. Sourcecode is complete gibberish. Kid enjoys game anyway & learns from content. Scenario 2: complex XO game is built in C, binary, no sourcefiles or C sourcecode included, but algorithms/principles used to create the game + mechanics in English tutorial + pseudocode are included so users can create their own version of the game using any language. Kid only understands Python. Kid enjoys game anyway & learns from content. Which of the 2 scenarios is constructionist? B) Engaging vs. Spoonfeeding Scenario 1: Closed binary of new free fantastic game is provided, contains chockful of puzzles & easter eggs for kid to explore and discover. There are no spoilers available on the net. Kid explores and collaborates with friends & classmates to solve the game, gain inspiration from the game & implement their own inspired version in Python. Scenario 2: Sourcecode is included, kids peek into the sourcecode to get all the answers to the puzzles without having to explore, collaborate or flex their mental muscles or creativity. Basically no effort. Game over, game is done. They have a good laugh and move on to the next game. Which of the 2 scenarios is constructionist? Alternately, replace game with multiple choice math puzzles. Available multiple choice answers had no explanation, just the plain answers (e.g. 5, 12, 3.5, etc) C) Artistic Vision Scenario 1: I am an artist. This is my vision of a game, this is how I implemented it. This is my artistic statement, and I hope it inspires the audience to create their own artistic statement (hopefully games themselves too) inspired by it. I do not want users to tinker with and modify the sourcecode game itself I made, I want them to flex their mental muscles and creativity and create their own original games using any tool they want. Theoretical Example: http://www.amanita-design.net/samorost-1/ Scenario 2: Kid changes some of the text like the names of the characters, reskins some of the art assets, but game is unchanged. Laughs and enjoyment are had by friends, but nothing groundbreaking or original is achieved. Real-world Example: http://www.thepencilfarm.com/blog/2008/02/snow_day_at_the_beijing_olympi.html The *Official* Beijing Olympics committee hired programmmers who reverse engineered & plagiarized Ferry Halim's game snow Day (http://www.orisinal.com -> Please check it out, the Ferry is a truly gifted pioneering artist/game developer), not even bothering to replace some very obvious art assets. Which of the 2 scenarios is constructionist? (please note that I am into the mod community. I love to death the games & mods that starting hackers & budding game developers made in doom, quake, half-life & unreal. Counterstrike & Team Fortress would not exist without the mod community or the support ID software or Valve gave them.) I know you guys are sick of my voice, so I'm going to refrain from posting for a while. Please give the above serious thought, and I would really really appreciate it if I could hear your thoughts. Please have a great week, continue to rock on, you guys are my heroes. All the best, -n -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Adobe Flash vs. Gnash -> very important bug
There's been so many changes and additions ever since Flash 9 and AS3 was introduced. Among them is byte-level manipulation which allows us to do really funky creative stuff, especially if combo-ed with AIR which allows you to read & write to the local filesystem. More importantly is the 2-100x increase in performance from AVM1-AVM2 (depending on how you built your app) which is crucial given the XO's limited CPU & memory. Gnash mostly supports AS2 and the AVM1 and is really just compatible up to Flash 8 SWFs and there's a very very big obscure bug that's not very documented in the AVM1 (AS2 code is ultimately converted to AS1 bytecode -- that's why AS1 & AS2 SWFs are compatible and can communicate. AS2 & AS3 SWFs are not.): There's a maximum filesize allowed per class because of the way the AVM1 compiler works. I forgot the exact number, but once you go beyond 2000 lines of code in a .AS class file, things will just break down and the app starts to malfunction. We had one game project where the main Class file was approaching 3000 lines of code. We were wondering why after adding just 10 lines of code which had completely correct syntax, the app would suddenly break and just stop working at a certain point. It was because of that very obscure bug (I don't have the link right now but it's in one of the old obscure Flash MX docs about limits). If you're wondering how the heck one reaches 2k+ lines of code for a class (that class finally weighed in at 67kb plaintext in the final build), 2k is not very hard to hit if you're developing a complex game. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: iPhone comparison
Yes, it's a hyperbole. I'm sorry for insulting everyone with the comparison to Evil Steve but can put your emotions aside, look at this objectively, and see my frustration? I want to help, but I can't. This is the skillset that I have, and thousands of others have the same problem. I'm not a computer scientist, I'm just a self-taught cowboy coder. I'm very busy with work and am struggling as it is to keep up with the insanely rapid developments in my field. I have too much on my plate to add learning python, sugarization or the other currently available avenues of building apps for the XO. I shouldn't have to "do my homework" -- reading the wiki should be enough to tell me where I can help given my skillset and the fact that I'm not a Linux person. Given everything I've said here, why is Flash content (that is developed to be optimized, not your typical unoptimized fare) not suitable for the XO? I'm not a Silverlight dev, but if it has free dev tools available, why not Silverlight too? Oh, another advantage Flash & AIR gives for the XO compared to DHTML is that you can have self-contained highly complex apps within single SWF/AIR file. With DHTML, a lot of projects are done with multiple HTML files being called, and that just doesn't play nice with the Sugar's filesystem, nor does it lend well to sharing between students. -- Here's the bottomline. I know many of you hate Flash. I did too, back in the 90s and hated 2advanced with a passion because of its bloat and most flash content was so bloated they were unviewable on our dial-up network connections here. You have to realize that the Flash platform is now a completely different animal than it used to be. It's very powerful, convenient, and allows us interaction designers to do things that would've been impractical/difficult or at least very tedious in any other platform. I've outlined my points and the potential for the increased availability of quality content for the users.I want to help, personally for me, this is how. I'm a Flash game developer, that's what I'm good at. For example, I want to modify, optimize and contribute this boggle-like game I made to the kids: http://www.mochimedia.com/contest/may09/games/word-blix_v1 Yes or No? -Naz ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: AIR + other Linux Flavors
> There's been all this discussion of AIR. I am unfamiliar with AIR. > My question : "Why would I (as an user) __need__ AIR ?" > > I do not mind using a "browser", nor do I mind installing a > special-purpose "plugin" into my browser in order to access particular > material. But what does AIR provide that for instance the combination > of "latest Firefox plus latest Adobe Flash plugin" would not provide ? Hey Mikus! AIR basically extends Flash outside the sandbox of the browser and into the desktop/mobile device with additional hooks to the system. For example, you have file read/write access. Think of it as a cross platform replacement for Flash .EXE projectors on steroids. It runs on Windows, Macs, Linux, and soon other mobile devices. > p.s. People keep showing various Linux platforms (e.g., Ubuntu, Debian, > etc) running on the XO. As far as I am concerned, if these people > *want* to run Ubuntu, Debian, etc., then buying a modern netbook for > that purpose will give them better performance than using the XO. 1) Because the XO is good ruggedized power-efficient hardware? Because we believe in the hardware and the incredible engineering work that went into it? 2) Because we want to support OLPC? Please don't tell me OLPC is selling units at a loss. 3) IMHO Sugar is limiting for older children and less suitable for high school and college use. The hiding of the traditional filesystem and replacing it with the journal is really too problematic and unwieldy for sharing files in excess of 50. Copying an html ebook composed of multiple HTML files becomes a complete mess. Users shouldn't have to go to the trouble of sugarizing those just to read them. They should be able to just share them via usb stick and copy-paste the folders. Also if there are any objections, what's wrong with providing XOs for high school and college level? Students need laptops a lot even more then because of reports and papers. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
tool elitism
ause it's Python/Sugar? And what's so evil with free as in beer if there's no ulterior motive to raise a generation of locked-in consumers behind it? (sure MS could benefit. Sure Adobe could benefit. Can you blame them if they make great tools that allow content creators to express themselves better?) There's an old saying that goes "beggars can't be choosers." Why refuse our help? We're here. We want to help. We know you need help. I'm also being pragmatic. Not all the schools in my country will be using XOs. If we develop content that's cross-platform, we can target other platforms like Mac & Windows too. It's a good investment. Also just because a kid can look at the sourcecode of an app doesn't immediately make it constructivist. That doesn't mean squat if the kid understand the code. Just because a kid can't look under the hood of an app also doesn't immediately mean it's not constructivist. Ever hear of the term inspiration & curiosity? (how do I replicate that Flash game in Pygame! :D) Don't just teach the kid syntax. Also teach the kid algorithms. I'll write a separate post about this. Look, I'm also tired of Linux users being treated like second class citizens, having to make do with home-made stuff and ignored by commercial product developers. I'm sorry to be blunt, but honestly, a lot of non-dev apps for Linux are rather mediocre compared to other platforms. Don't you think the kids using the XOs will feel less like 2nd class citizen charity cases if they can access the exact same content their more affluent Mac & PC-using peers are? If we can make the process of creating content for the XO or porting of existing content trivial so that it becomes an actual target platform, don't you guys think that's a good thing? I hope I haven't offended anyone. I really hope you guys see what I'm trying to say because OLPC needs all the help it can get (and you don't need to compromise your principles). I'm sorry to be blunt, but OLPC has already jaded and alienated a lot of supporters (just read Slashdot, the largest nerd army in the world). By creating additional avenues for developers to contribute, I hope we can revive and increase interest for volunteers. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
> Nobody has stated that it can't be done. But experience shows the > opposite correlation (and I have worked in many edu projects using > Flash myself, some huge such as TLF's SOCCI). > > Maybe it's a cultural problem (ie: people who get excited with Flash > things singing and dancing tend to build shiny stuff rather than deep > rich stuff with "no ceiling"). Martin, how is this Flash's fault? This is a problem with the authors creating sub-quality content or having poor source material or terrible developers, not a problem with the platform itself. If your educational content is poor, it's going to remain poor no matter what platform you use. If Flash was such a terrible platform for creating e-learning materials, how come over 50% of the e-learning demand outsourced over here is for Flash? (by the way, kids love shiny stuff. it helps 'em learn and pay attention if stuff is shiny.) > Please change our opinion -- build something outstanding for learning > with low barriers of entry and no ceiling :-) There are 26,909 *FREE* Flash games on Kongregate alone -- a lot, if not most of the really fun ones made by amateur self-taught one-man gangs. How high a barrier of entry is that if those guys were able to make multimedia games, something even most "real" programmers find challenging, given that there are now free supported tools? I don't know what you mean by ceiling. Also, games, games, games, games, games. If you can make education fun, kids will to learn better. I was lucky enough to have had access to a PC in my childhood with a number of educational games bought by my parents. Because of those games, I was able to get a leg up on my classmates in Math, English and creativity & lateral thinking as opposed to my other classmates. Because of my exposure to the PC, I also started coding BASIC games at 10 years old (starting with books from the library) and was actually already messing around with Algebra when almost everyone else only got exposed to it in freshman high school. I don't think I would have been as "smart" a kid if all I had were books, school, teachers and no educational computer games. Moreover, think of the possibilities for OLPC if you could tap just 5% of those Flash game developers to volunteer for edu-games. Head over to the list of submissions to the 2009 Mochi Media + Dictionary.com word game contest: http://www.mochimedia.com/contest/may09/games There are some really great word games in there. What if we send an invite and could get just 20 of those guys to contribute? I admit, things are very bleak for Flash performance on the XO-1 given the extremely high resolution (it taxes the vector rasterizing engine because of the massive increase of pixels that have to be pushed), but for the XO-1.5, I think the sky's the limit. Aside from poor performance on the XO-1, what exactly is it that makes Flash much worse than any other content-authoring platform? -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
Hey Martin! JD also hooked us up with Tom Nguyen, product manager for the Flash Player and here's what Tom said: "Great to meet you. I actually recently graduated with an MA in Education from Stanford, where I spent a bit of time focusing on constructionist learning methods, so it's great to hear about Flash + OLPC. As JD mentioned, please feel to free to pass along questions you might have, and I'll see if I can help or connect you to the right folks. Thanks. --Tom" Pretty cool, no? Forwarded to Ed & Reuben, waiting for replies. :) JD was also asking for consolidated info that he could pass along to the right people & I think the best thing for us to do is edit the wiki pages (or create separate wiki pages) for the issues (like installation, etc), suggestions & wishlists to get Flash & AIR installing & running smoothly on the XOs both for Sugar and Fedora, and then forward those to the Adobe folks. I know that Flash has traditionally gotten Flak from the open source community as not being good for the open web because the only authoring tools were commercial products from Adobe, but now Adobe has given open source tools for people to create SWFs and AIR apps via Flex. Cheers! -Naz > From my PoV, Flash is ok installation wise (hey! some optimisation for > our gpu would be cool, as would finding a way to use xv on linux > again), but AIR installer needs to be a plain rpm. The current .bin > installer unpacks itself and builds an rpm on the fly -- this means > you need to have rpm "dev" packages on the target image, that's > problematic. > > Maybe forward to jd? -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Google Puts Weight Behind Theora on Mobile
I think it's safe to say that with the backing of Google and its army of lawyers, Theora is now protected from patent litigation. Google Puts Weight Behind Theora on Mobile http://www.osnews.com/story/23135/Google_Puts_Weight_Behind_Theora_on_Mobile -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
hey guys! Good news, I was able to get in touch with John Dowdell of Adobe (email below). I'll coordinate with Reuben & Ed for the info needed by Adobe to improve Flash & AIR behavior on the XOs. *crosses fingers* -Naz "> Some stuff OLPC needs to get Flash & AIR running better on the XO-1 & 1.5: > -installer tweaks -> customizing installation to play better when > installing files on the XO's modified filesystem > -performance tweaks, hopefully some hardware acceleration > -wrappers for Flash & AIR to work with OLPC's Sugar system > ... the camera of the XO-1 doesn't work quite properly with Flash 10 > and would need a few tweaks with the Flash player to run well. Hi Carlos, thanks for the word. I could forward this among the Player and AIR teams, but they'd likely need more information before being able to reply. Is there any public documentation on the current blocks on the project? Here's the best page I know of, but it doesn't reveal what additional help they're seeking: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash I'll also check with Mike Melanson when I'm back in the office tomorrow, to see if he has additional perspective. Any way I can learn more, so I can improve the chances of a successful response? tx, jd" -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
A 2.5 Year-Old Has A First Encounter with An iPad
Hi guys. Check out this video. It's pretty interesting in terms of computing usability for very young children: A 2.5 Year-Old Has A First Encounter with An iPad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4EbM7dCMs It's pretty interesting to note how the toddler took to it like a duck to water. (she had previous iPhone experience) -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: fundamentalism
Hey Bert, no, I'm not calling people here fundamentalists. You guys are awesome. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
Oh dear. Googling HQTube ended up with the top 2 entries being porn sites :-/ I think something needs a project name change :) Anyway, wouldn't there be a problem if we bundled HQTube because VLC/Xine/MPlayer would still need licensed codecs to be able to decode audio/video streams? (FFmpeg/Gstreamer Ugly). In the case of Flash, at least we'd have working sound because it's all good and licensed, unlike in the default GNASH install. Yeah, actually for the XO-1, I usually used Flashblock on Firefox and turn off plugins in Opera because of the limited CPU/Memory (the machine would actually hang in some cases like if you visit a Flash Papervision3D site). Aside from that, I also turn off Javascript -- the amount of AJAX used on the web these days is simply ridiculous and too much of a resource hog. Bash Flash all you want, but AJAX is just as bad. Video-wise, I don't think there's much hope with the XO-1 since a lot of video is now being streamed in high quality H.264, something which brings even faster systems to their knees. If we can get the Adobe guys to do some optimization for at least the XO-1.5 (which is where deployments are going anyway), that would be a very big thing. You never know, Adobe might actually take the time out to try to fix things with the XO-1 and XO-1.5 for hardware acceleration. Reuben, Ed, I'll try to help you guys on this. Tiago, thank you so much for Stallman's ebook link. Free as in Freedom is good. Closed-minded Fundamentalism is not. Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
Hey Reuben! Thanks for clarifying that. So should I start talking to some of the Adobe peeps I know about this? Who shall be the official contact from OLPC they should talk to? (name + email address) Re: AIR on Sugar/Fedora -> yeah, AIR is an iffy proposition due to Sugar's weird file structure. Flash is all good, though, right? Also, how about on Fedora 11 for the XO? Maybe put in the same request to Adobe on Flash + AIR for the F11 remix? Regards, -Naz On 3/24/10, Reuben K. Caron wrote: > Carlos, > > +1 > > Thank you for bringing this up. > > FYI: One of our largest deployments and two other smaller deployments > have received approval to ship Adobe Flash in their builds. > > IMHO, OLPC would be able to provide deployments with the option of > including Adobe Flash, while continuing to include Gnash as default, > if they wish to do so without having to jump through the hurdles of > applying and waiting for individual approval. > > Regards, > > Reuben > -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
Okay, here's the thing: AFAIK, the Adobe peeps don't have access to XO machines, that's why before when I was reporting to Mike Melanson (http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/ Linux Flash guy at Adobe) the camera bug with Flash on the XO-1, he couldn't help much. I'm relatively sure the Adobe peeps would love to help OLPC, and there should be no problem getting Flash freely distributed for bundling given the Open Screen Project. (manufacturers used to need to pay a licensing fee to bundle the Flash player in devices like mobile phones back in the early Flash Lite). I'm in touch with some folks at Adobe, and if you guys want, I can start asking around. There's a very large international Flash game developer community and I'm sure a number of Flash game developers would love to help out OLPC. Here's another thing to consider: If there was an easy way to have the equivalent of a shortcut that launches the browser and runs an SWF file, that should be good enough for a lot of Flash games. Given that you can have an entire app/game running in a single SWF file, that makes it friendlier to the XO given Sugar+Fedora's weird file management system (as compared to a multi-page HTML educational content package with JPG, PNG & GIF graphics). What do you guys think? Despite the fantastic work Rob Savoye & co are doing with Gnash, a lot of quality content is inaccessible. Is it really so bad to have a free as in beer closed-source runtime get bundled by OLPC if it will open so many doors? -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
> Maybe the reason we're miscommunicating is that you don't understand > that we aren't willing to expect that our users have access to another > computer running Windows (because they don't), or for them to use a > text editor to edit content that was created in a GUI (since that's > *much* harder, and is treating them as a second-class citizen). > The XO is all we have to work with. Thanks, Chris. I understand that. Well, the XO 1.5 is powerful enough to run Java & compile SWF content with the Flex SDK (Java is needed to publish w/ the Flex SDK) so I don't really see that as a problem. Anyway the main point I'm proposing is opening up an additional channel for providing content for the XO from amateur & professional developers. IMHO, the weakest point of the XO (& OLPC) is the lack of compelling content and the difficulty of creating quality content. What's wrong with other people who have content creation tools providing free content for the people who'll only have access to XOs? It's like saying we can't give books written by other authors to these people because we want them to write their own books or fanfic. Also, what's wrong with free as in Beer? (aside from making sure the beer works well, plays nice and doesn't mess with other stuff or have backdoors and the like) Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: my trimming of reply texts
Hi guys. I apologize for forgetting to trim the quoted text from my replies. Google's "quick reply" function is evil and quotes the entire previous messages (which is very bad in my case since I set devel to digest mode). Sorry. I won't do it again. :-/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 49, Issue 43
>The real problem with Flash isn't even the non-free player. It's the non-free >authoring >tool chain every content creator is locked into, plus that even with the tools >the >resulting flash file is not fully editable. The result is an impenetrable >magic gimmick, >it's not supposed to be examined, deconstructed, rebuilt, improved. It's >teaching kids >to be consumers, not to be creators. What? Have you guys not been reading what I've been saying? THERE ARE NOW FREE AND OPEN SOURCE TOOLS FOR CREATING FLASH CONTENT. You have Flashdevelop (opn source Actionscript Editor for Windows), Flex SDK (all you need is a text editor to make AS3 .as files and a command line to compile the SWF a la JDK), also, HaXe. -Naz On 3/24/10, devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote: > Send Devel mailing list submissions to > devel@lists.laptop.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > devel-ow...@lists.laptop.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. RFC: change to XO sleep behavior (Paul Fox) >2. Re: RFC: change to XO sleep behavior (Chris Ball) >3. Re: RFC: change to XO sleep behavior (Hal Murray) >4. Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 114 (James Cameron) >5. Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO (Martin Langhoff) >6. Re: RFC: change to XO sleep behavior (James Cameron) >7. Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO (Carlos Nazareno) >8. Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO (Chris Ball) >9. Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO (Bert Freudenberg) > 10. Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO (Carlos Nazareno) > 11. Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO (Carlos Nazareno) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:16:51 -0400 > From: Paul Fox > Subject: RFC: change to XO sleep behavior > To: devel@lists.laptop.org, sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > Message-ID: <22980.1269371...@foxharp.boston.ma.us> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > recent releases of XO-1.5 (and also of F11-on-XO1, if we can ever > get suspend/resume working properly again) have a new default > behavior with regard to idle suspend. i'm soliciting opinions on > how to fine-tune this new behavior. > > before: > in the past on XO-1, the screen would dim, and after a > certain duration of inactivity, the laptop would suspend > (with the screen dimmed). a keystroke or touchpad gesture > would waken the laptop from this state. in contrast, pushing > the power button would cause the screen to blank and the > laptop to go to sleep. one could leave this state only by > pushing the power button again (or by closing/opening the lid). > > note that there was no ambiguity as to whether keyboard input > would cause the laptop to wake up: if the screen was on, it > would, otherwise, it wouldn't. > > now: > in the new scheme, the idle sequence has changed: after a > fairly brief period of inactivity, the system will suspend, > leaving the screen on. (the user may not even know this has > happened.) assuming there is still no keyboard activity, a > little later the screen will dim, and sometime after that, > the screen will blank. (if you care about these timings, please > comment on #10034, rather than here.) > > now we finally come to the fine-tuning: > > a) currently, once the screen blanks, a keystroke will _not_ > wake the laptop. as a design, it seemed to make sense that > if the screen was off, and the power LED was flashing slowly, > then however we got there (i.e., via power button or > idleness), the laptop should behave the same. > > b) but having been using the laptop this way for a while, > several people have requested that if the screen blanks due > to idleness, that it should remain wakeable with user > activity. this makes it feel a lot more like a traditional > screen saver (but note that your waking keystroke will be > used, not dropped). everyone seems to be agreed that the > power button, like a lid closure, should result in a state > where the keyboard won't wake the laptop. > > so, what do you think? 'a' or 'b'? (note that 'a'
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
crap. hit the send key before proof-reading. Edits: -> There are thousands of Java developers in the world today, and for all intents and purposes, AS3 has more or less the same syntax as Java so you now have an additonal large pool of developers who can create content. Also, an aside, JRE is a resource hog compared to Flash that's why Flash is commonly accepted way to deploy multimedia content (especially for a low-resource environment like the XO). -> Honestly, I find the reasoning that everything has to be open source in order for it to be good for kids a non sequitur. On 3/24/10, Carlos Nazareno wrote: > I don't get it. > > 1) Flash is no more "evil" as Java was years ago when it was closed > source and it was being taught at universities. > > There is now an open-source SDK (Flex SDK (there's 2 versions, the > closed source and the open source one)) with which you can produce > AVM2 SWFs, and you can give away your AS3 sourcecode all you want. > > In fact, if Firefox & Chrome did not exist and let's say the only web > browsers that existed were closed-source ones like IE, Netscape, > Opera, Safari, would you say that HTML + Javascript is an > inappropriate tool for creating learning materials? Because that is > exactly the same situation. > > Martin's previous arguments about the quality of educational content > is not a problem with a platform like flash, it is a problem about the > the content that is being deployed. > > 2) You have hundreds of Flash multimedia/game developers that > outnumber Python game/multimedia developers. Why add an extra layer of > hassle for them to create content for the XO? > > (I still am not able to get sound running on Gnash on the XO.) > > There are thousands of Java developers in the world today, and for all > intents and purposes, AS3 has more or less the same syntax as Java. > JRE is a resource hog compared to Flash, > > Moreover, Flash has authoring tools which make it very easy to create > integrated multimedia content (vector/raster graphics, sound, > keyboard/mouse inputs, etc). > > There's a new flame war going on, HTML5 vs Flash and it's the new > Macs vs PC, but you won't see Flash dying anytime soon. You want to > know why? The web is ruled by designers and not developers. You don't > have to be a "real programmer" to create interactive rich media > content for Flash. > > 3) Honestly, I find the reasoning that everything has to be open > source in order for it to be good for kids. I mean do you have to be a > mechanic to be able to drive a car? Do you have to be an electrical > engineer to watch Sesame Street on TV? > > Does a child really need to tinker with the source code of an > educational game to be able to gain benefits from it? Moreover, I > think that's asking too much given the fact that even high school > students have problems grasping BASIC. > > I think this is a case of open source fundamentalism trumping educational > goals. > > There are hundreds of multimedia authors out there who can create > content for the XO, but IMHO sugarization & python + python only is a > gateway that is hampering the availability of content for the XO. > > In a sense, this makes the XO an environment that is just about as > locked-in as the iPhone. > > Why is allowing additional tools & a new pool of content creators bad for > OLPC? > > -Naz > >>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-January/003516.html >> >> (This isn't an official OLPC policy; I didn't talk with anyone at OLPC >> before writing it.) >> >> - Chris. >> -- >> Chris Ball >> One Laptop Per Child >> > > -- > carlos nazareno > http://twitter.com/object404 > http://www.object404.com > -- > interactive media specialist > zen graffiti studios > http://www.zengraffiti.com > -- > "if you don't like the way the world is running, > then change it instead of just complaining." > -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
I don't get it. 1) Flash is no more "evil" as Java was years ago when it was closed source and it was being taught at universities. There is now an open-source SDK (Flex SDK (there's 2 versions, the closed source and the open source one)) with which you can produce AVM2 SWFs, and you can give away your AS3 sourcecode all you want. In fact, if Firefox & Chrome did not exist and let's say the only web browsers that existed were closed-source ones like IE, Netscape, Opera, Safari, would you say that HTML + Javascript is an inappropriate tool for creating learning materials? Because that is exactly the same situation. Martin's previous arguments about the quality of educational content is not a problem with a platform like flash, it is a problem about the the content that is being deployed. 2) You have hundreds of Flash multimedia/game developers that outnumber Python game/multimedia developers. Why add an extra layer of hassle for them to create content for the XO? (I still am not able to get sound running on Gnash on the XO.) There are thousands of Java developers in the world today, and for all intents and purposes, AS3 has more or less the same syntax as Java. JRE is a resource hog compared to Flash, Moreover, Flash has authoring tools which make it very easy to create integrated multimedia content (vector/raster graphics, sound, keyboard/mouse inputs, etc). There's a new flame war going on, HTML5 vs Flash and it's the new Macs vs PC, but you won't see Flash dying anytime soon. You want to know why? The web is ruled by designers and not developers. You don't have to be a "real programmer" to create interactive rich media content for Flash. 3) Honestly, I find the reasoning that everything has to be open source in order for it to be good for kids. I mean do you have to be a mechanic to be able to drive a car? Do you have to be an electrical engineer to watch Sesame Street on TV? Does a child really need to tinker with the source code of an educational game to be able to gain benefits from it? Moreover, I think that's asking too much given the fact that even high school students have problems grasping BASIC. I think this is a case of open source fundamentalism trumping educational goals. There are hundreds of multimedia authors out there who can create content for the XO, but IMHO sugarization & python + python only is a gateway that is hampering the availability of content for the XO. In a sense, this makes the XO an environment that is just about as locked-in as the iPhone. Why is allowing additional tools & a new pool of content creators bad for OLPC? -Naz >http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-January/003516.html > > (This isn't an official OLPC policy; I didn't talk with anyone at OLPC > before writing it.) > > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > One Laptop Per Child > -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
>> What do you guys think? > That you've applied for a job at Adobe, or will do it soon ;-) No, I'm a flash game developer and there are *A LOT* of flash game developers out there, and it's now the easiest platform to develop games for. I'm 100% sure that a number of Flash game developers (professional or amateur) would love to contribute game & edugame content for the XO. Gnash just doesn't cut it. AVM1 is just too slow, especially for the XO-1. > Look, I have worked for many years on the Shockwave and Flash > platforms. Unless your clients are paying you real money to develop > with it, it's honestly a PoS and there is no reason to celebrate it. I don't think you've developed for it in the past 3 years then. Flash is an absolute joy to make games in. As a kid too, I got a big headstart on my classmates because I had educational Math & Word games on our home computer. Games in general proven to be one of the best ways to engage students - make learning fun, and they will learn. I have a Bookworm-like (Boggle-like) word game that's good to go on the XO with a few graphical tweaks, but it's in Flash 9 AS3 AVM2 and will not work with Gnash. -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO
Hi guys. I know most people here prefer free as in Libre as opposed to free as in beer, but what do you think of coordinating with Adobe to get Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO? Adobe already supports a lot of open-source initiatives and have already open-sourced the Flex SDK which you can use to compile SWFs using text files and a command line a la JDK (or in Windows, using an open-source IDE like Flashdevelop (needs .NET runtime)). http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk Flash's spec is open, but they cannot opensource the Flash Player or AIR because they contain technologies which Adobe does not own but pays licensing fees for. With stuff like Youtube (using the camera to record a video, something you cannot do with HTML5), UStream and games (which kids dig a lot), the internet experience really isn't complete without Flash. Moreover, the big difference is that with the Actionscript Virtual Machine 2 which uses Actionscript 3, the speed difference from the AVM1 (Actionscript 1/2 like GNASH) is 10x or more, which is very important since we're talking about low-speed/power devices here. Also, Flash Player 10.1 has been engineered for mobile devices so it should run very efficiently on the XO 1.5 (you can only do so much with the XO-1, but Flash 10 beats GNASH's performance on it nonetheless). Also (sorry John, Rob), Actionscript 2 is a dead technology which needs to be put to rest (and there are few practical open source tools to generate AS2/AVM1 SWFs). GNASH simply cannot catch up with the features that are being implemented with each new release of Flash.. Also, Adobe is actively pushing Flash on as many devices as possible via the Open Screen Project http://www.openscreenproject.org and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to have Flash get bundled on the XO. Also, Flash is the most commonly used toolset for building educational apps. Not everyone has the skill or patience to programmatically animate objects in e-learning applications. What I mean is that it's very efficient. What do you guys think? -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: changing the texture...
Yes, a flat area would be nice for stickers/sticker labels or taped labels too. The bumps are label-unfriendly :-/ > This came up at a recent meeting where we were looking at the XO1.5 > > I'm not sure how easy or difficult it is to change the plastic > texture/bumps, but if the XO 1.5 had a small rectangular area (say, 2 > inch x 3 inch...like a business card) in the back without the bumps, > it would help with labels and or markings. Writing on the textured > surface is difficult. > > Just passing it along. > > cheers, > Sameer -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 41, Issue 37
> At the moment, OLPC is doing approximately zero work on Windows. That > wasn't true last year. I spent several months last year making it > possible to boot Windows from Open Firmware. The reason I did that was > to prevent Microsoft from "taking over" the XO machine. Hey Mitch! Great to hear. This actually proves that Nicholas is pro-open source. May I have permission to post this email or portions of it to Slashdot? All the best, -Naz On 7/21/09, devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote: > Send Devel mailing list submissions to > devel@lists.laptop.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > devel-ow...@lists.laptop.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? > (Carlos Nazareno) >2. Re: [Sugar-devel] help about the get_preview function of > activity.Activity class to take screenshots (Tomeu Vizoso) >3. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? (Bastien) >4. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? > (Martin Langhoff) >5. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? > (Mitch Bradley) >6. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? > (James Cameron) >7. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? > (Carlos Nazareno) >8. Re: Availability of XO-1.5 ATest-2 machines (Martin Langhoff) >9. Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? (Bastien) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:47:15 +0800 > From: Carlos Nazareno > Subject: Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here? > To: Bastien > Cc: devel > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> I'm sick and tired of the this OLPC-MS FUD (Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt) on >>> Slashdot (one of the highest-traffic websites, so high that getting >>> linked on the frontpage is like being DDOSed) and it would be great if >>> the record on this could be set straight so that the MS FUD inanity on >>> Slashdot can be ended as it's destroying the image of OLPC. > > >> I'm sick of it as well, but I think there is nothing to do. > > There is. If we could get what the story really is, anytime there's a > post on Slashdot on OLPC, we can just post the straight beans there. > The particular story I posted is still active right now, and if anyone > makes a post, I've got moderator points right now and can mod it up. > > The thing is, most of the people on Slashdot (aka the Internet > Geek/Nerd Community) who post about OLPC topics know nothing about > what's going on as they just get their info from 3rd-hand sources and > haven't even touched an XO. > > Since we know a little bit more, it would be very informative to the > world at large to set the story straight at these forums. > > -- > carlos nazareno > http://twitter.com/object404 > http://www.object404.com > -- > user group manager > phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters > adobe flash/flex/air community > http://www.phlashers.com > -- > interactive media specialist > zen graffiti studios > http://www.zengraffiti.com > -- > "if you don't like the way the world is running, > then change it instead of just complaining." > > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:03:34 +0200 > From: Tomeu Vizoso > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] help about the get_preview function of > activity.Activity class to take screenshots > To: sumit singh > Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org, sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org, Martin > Sevior > Message-ID: > <242851610907210103l4898f05fk607a6db84...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 01:08, sumit singh wrote: >> Martin and Tomeu, >> >> Martin, thanx a lot for such a detailed answer. I have got what you want >> to >> say. But the problem with me right now is that I think the get_preview >> function is available only in the latest release of sugar 0.84 because I >> am >> on 0.82, and my xo gives an error -- " Activity module does not have an >> attribute get_preview&
Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here?
> That's my point. We can fix this issue by raising an army of small > hands that will vote on your (correct) slashdot comment, spread the > correct vision, etc. No need for anyone here to have mod points on Slashdot actually. If anyone here just says something informative and not FUD, and clarifies where they're getting their information from, reader moderators will mod the comment up and it will become more visible to readers, thus fixing FUD ;) I'm more than happy to post stuff, having a Slashdot account. I just don't know what to post exactly as stuff is not yet clarified. Cheers! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here?
>> I'm sick and tired of the this OLPC-MS FUD (Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt) on >> Slashdot (one of the highest-traffic websites, so high that getting >> linked on the frontpage is like being DDOSed) and it would be great if >> the record on this could be set straight so that the MS FUD inanity on >> Slashdot can be ended as it's destroying the image of OLPC. > I'm sick of it as well, but I think there is nothing to do. There is. If we could get what the story really is, anytime there's a post on Slashdot on OLPC, we can just post the straight beans there. The particular story I posted is still active right now, and if anyone makes a post, I've got moderator points right now and can mod it up. The thing is, most of the people on Slashdot (aka the Internet Geek/Nerd Community) who post about OLPC topics know nothing about what's going on as they just get their info from 3rd-hand sources and haven't even touched an XO. Since we know a little bit more, it would be very informative to the world at large to set the story straight at these forums. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
is anyone actually doing Windows on XO work here?
Hey all. Check out the latest piece: Negroponte Sees Sugar As OLPC's Biggest Mistake http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/20/1628228 (The title is bad FUD from OLPC News -- it's actually Negroponte saying that Sugar should have been run as an application instead of the main OS layer/frontend and not Sugar itself as the mistake.) Now everytime there's a piece on OLPC at Slashdot.org, it seems 30% of the comment traffic is composed of bashing OLPC for caving in to Microsoft and Windows. Now AFAIK, there's little to no Windows work being done in-house by the OLPC team, and it's all or mostly at Microsoft's side that the work's being done. And AFAIK, the deal is that "you buy the machine, you're free to run any software you want on it. We're not stopping you from running Windows even though we're pushing Sugar." In this case, OLPC is not really in bed with MS but is more of allowing MS to run Windows on the OLPC the same way users can install any software they want on their PCs. Am I correct in this assumption? I'm sick and tired of the this OLPC-MS FUD (Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt) on Slashdot (one of the highest-traffic websites, so high that getting linked on the frontpage is like being DDOSed) and it would be great if the record on this could be set straight so that the MS FUD inanity on Slashdot can be ended as it's destroying the image of OLPC. All the best, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
A1 Motherboard specs diagram
In the photo diagram of the A1 motherboard available at this link: http://www.olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=4508.msg30159#msg30159 there's a section of the board at the upper right that says "HD Audio Codec". Does that mean hardware acceleration of audio codec playback? Will there be software support for this? Also, according to the diagram, the A1 uses a Via VX855 media system processor: http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/v-series/vx855/ This chip has a built in Via Chrome9 (formerly S3 graphics brand) 3D accelerator. Does this mean we'll now have pretty good OpenGL hardware acceleration on the XO? :) -- Compiz Fusion for Fedora or Ubuntu on the XO! ;) Also, the Via page mentions hardware decoding of certain video codecs. Will we see software support for any of these? (given that these are proprietary video codecs) Finally, it says processor is a Via C7-M ULV. According to the Via page: http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/ This has a power consumption of 3.5W which is significantly higher than the AMD 0.8-1.3W of the XO-1's AMD Geode LX 700. This is why I was asking about battery life -- it's a concern for using the XO with common tasks like as a mobile e-book reader. I'm pretty certain there's going to be a hit on battery life compared to the XO-1, but I'm pretty excited about the faster chip + upped memory as this now means that the XO will now be able to surf sites heavy with AJAX and Flash as well as be able to watch Flash video within the browser such as on sites like YouTube -- something not decently possible with the XO-1. Best regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Availability of XO-1.5 ATest-2 machines
> You can still give us numbers without resuming and just using clock > scaling can C-states. That would be a far more realistic battery life > number to shout out to the world, than what happenned with the XO-1. > If the laptop can only handle 3 hours without suspend that's fine, > it's a baseline. If it could do 5 hours than it would be great. A good test would be just to use the units in ebook reader mode and try testing how long the batteries would last reading PDFs. No need for suspend/resume testing in this case. Regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Availability of XO-1.5 ATest-2 machines
Great! How's the power consumption on the XO 1.5s? Battery life under different activity conditions? Also, what determines the dynamic clock rate from 400MHz to 1GHz? Is this auto-scaling on demand like with the old AMD Athlon64's? Does the software automatically reduce speed to 400MHz when the unit is unplugged? Thanks for the info! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Build 802 dead wireless
Hi all. I upgraded to build 802 from build 767 via USB drive (os802.usb, os802.toc) & 'sudo olpc-update --usb' and now I can't detect any wireless nodes, whether mesh or access point in neighborhood view. Anyone know what's happening/happened? Thanks -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO OS vs. Teapot Ubuntu Benchmarks
Hi all. Still have to clean up the Teddymark cross-platform Flash benchmarking tool before public presentation, but strangely, on "default clean boot", Teddymark gets a little higher FPS in Opera 9.63 browser Adobe Flash 10 plugin under XO OS (Fedora + Sugar) than on Teapot's Ubuntu Intrepid build (also Opera 9.63 browser, Adobe Flash 10 plugin). Also, the Read Activity seems to be snappier displaying PDFs than Evince under Teapot's Ubuntu too. Will release Teddymark and do more benchmarking studies when I finish current project at work. All the best, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Price point plus sales to individuals
> Okay, so those of you who are keen on there being a way for individuals > to buy XOs at $2xx dollars should place a volume order, set up a web > site, and start raking in the dough. > > Obviously you guys know something about making a few bucks per machine > that has eluded the OLPC organization, so go for it. As the old canard > says, put your money where you mouth is. seriously, it would be fantastic if whoever we have to/can talk to, please pm. * see: Asia-Pacific logistical location of the Philippines * everyone here pretty much speaks English * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subic_Bay_Freeport_Zone all the best, -n -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Price point plus sales to individuals
> Okay, so those of you who are keen on there being a way for individuals > to buy XOs at $2xx dollars should place a volume order, set up a web > site, and start raking in the dough. > > Obviously you guys know something about making a few bucks per machine > that has eluded the OLPC organization, so go for it. As the old canard > says, put your money where you mouth is. PM me. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: price point + sales to individuals
> In summary, you'd like to see a lower price. No, in summary, I'm thinking maybe this can be a two-birds with one stone approach to: a) Save OLPC financially by selling XO units with a little profit to all takers as Yama said. Why not tie up with and physically stock some units at computer/electronics stores since there are logistical problems with shipping to individuals? (this would also entail some marketing and evangelism to show how the XO is different from netbooks - I suspect it'd be a hit with the outdoors crowd, much like when GPS devices were new) b) Increase the number of software developers, contributors, content authors and testers by getting XO units into more peoples' hands. (see homebrew scene popularity and success stories: what more with a dev-friendly environment like the XO?) Best regards, -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
new mailing list for other distros?
> I will have my two XO's there, I will try to have them running different > flavors of DebXO (from USB sticks if nothing else, but quite possibly from > the NAND), since the future direction is to have them run relativly > standard distros, having examples of the different distros would be nice. Would it be good to create a new separate mailman developer list for non XO OS (Fedora + Sugar) other linux distro ports? (debxo, ubuntu xo, fedora xo etc) And then keep devel for main XO OS to avoid clutter? In relation to this and other distros, I believe that if more average people who like to tinker with their gadgets got their hands on XOs, the OLPC homebrew scene would absolutely explode, be self sustaining, and I think would actually contribute more upstream to OLPC. To put things in perspective, the XO IMHO is the hacker-developer-friendliest "gadget" in existence. For starters, take a look at the following scenes: the sidebar of http://dcemu.co.uk/ for gadget homebrew http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_(video_games) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_emulator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom_hacking All these other console/device platforms are very developer-hostile (except the GP2X) compared to the XO where you can create all kinds of stuff with so many different kinds of languages, and yet the homebrew scene is very much lively! As long as a disclaimer exists that official XO support is only mainly for deployments and official XO OS (meaning consumers should turn to the homebrew peeps and not the OLPC team for support), the XO developer scene would be quite active should the XO be made available to average consumers. Maintaining an OS + creating apps for it is a herculean task and I applaud the OLPC dev team for having accomplished such. The usage of more standard distros on the XO though, would mean way more developers available developers. I think the only thing that prevents a more lively OLPC developer scene is availability of units to techie users. I really hope OLPC would look into a new model to get XOs into the hands of average consumers (like the oft-repeated "sell em for minor profit which would go into funding OLPC"). G1G1 is really too expensive and the Contributors program is a bit... weird. The Contributors program entails that the project leader would actively work on the project you signed on to do, whereas owning an XO would allow the user-developer to tinker around the XO at his/her own pace and do all sorts of eclectic dev-hackery. Also, there really is no substitute for developers getting their hands on actual XO-1 units because experiencing the CPU & RAM limitations really, really drive the point home on how optimized apps need to be for the XO. (I mean wow. Flash apps really need a ton of optimization, especially since the screen has way higher resolution than smartphones and thus eat more rasterization CPU power) Off-topic, $250 a pop would be a sweet spot if that provides enough profit to fund OLPC considering that the $250-$300 niche is already filled with models that provide way more horsepower than the XO-1 (yes, we can say "that's not XO's objective niche!", but consumers will still look at cpu,ram&storage whatever anyone says). Anyway, just a few thoughts. Cheers! -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 35, Issue 85
> Really? Have you done the math? you don't have to. oldest unbroken civilization with lineage already did. why reinvent the wheel? just research the meaning of the term "tubong lugaw" to understand. i seriously gotta get some sleep. I've been timetravelling all over the internet since moonday and am not quite sure what day it is anymore ;P can't make it for friday's 3am/3pm thing, I have a prior engagement. Thank you for everything, guys. it has been an honor being in everyone's presence here and learning from all of you ;) this is dedicated to everyone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4LIPNr8Ak abracos, i bid thee adeus, good night everyone rock on, olpc! -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 35, Issue 84
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:57 AM, Carlos Nazareno wrote: >> Support? real men don't need no steeenkin manuals or directions! just >> ship em in a plain cardboard box with a power adaptor and all will be >> good to go! > > This unfortunately, is the point of view of a technical elitist (no > I'm not pointing to you) that results to project failures. WHAT??? -10,000 geek cred you, sir, have just lost your manliness points. real men never ask for directions. real men would rather get lost driving and end up in the middle of nowhere on some strange road in the boondocks 30 miles away from civilization after nightfall than to cave in to their wife and ask the local how to get to the beach resort! shame shame, jerome. tsk tsk tsk. lol -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- adobe user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: AMD to stop working on Geodes
> People say they buy computers to work, but by and large they really > buy them to play. And geodes > wont run modern games so they aren't selling. Before the term DDOS came into use, there was only the Slashdot effect where entire servers would melt down because of the sheer number of geeks a link to the front page of slashdot.org would bring. foru simple words can save the entirety of OLPC and the AMD, and in fact make both filthy rich, rich enough to execute our insane kumbaya vision. military grade hacker toy say those four magic words, sell the XO via geek online stores, and 1CC will be so slashdotted to high heck with orders that the waiting list will take years to fill out. At similar price points, the XO-1 puts the Nintendo DS, Tapwave Zodiac, GP2X, Sony PSP, Chumby and iPods + iPhones to shame. Support? real men don't need no steeenkin manuals or directions! just ship em in a plain cardboard box with a power adaptor and all will be good to go! Start selling current batches of 1GB Nand 256MB RAM. These are collector's items and will increase in value. Move out all existing stocks, and then fix fab to ship next version with 512MB RAM + 4-8GB NAND. Moore's law and Windows Vista have brought down the price of memory to dirt-cheap levels. Chipmakers produced so much RAM and opened so many factories in anticipation of Vista's insanely stupid bloatedness (that was the first time I ever saw a software company make bloatedness and inefficiency as a prime selling feature) that when it miserably failed, they now have so much RAM on their hands they don't know what to do with it. Chipmakers are in deep trouble right now and RAM prices have never been so low. Anyone looking to upgrade RAM, now is the time. OLPC? Have Quanta start on the XO-1.1 with the increased storage + memory. My concern with the upped specs is that AFAIK, more ram = increased power consumption? Or was that only for desktops and sticking additional sticks in empty memory slots? Also, here's something Jerome Gotangco over at OLPC Ph has noticed after sticking in Teapot's Xubuntu XO Intrepid Ibex liveSD: Battery life seems to have gone down a lot. I just recently managed to get the same working on 2 of the developer units with me on different kinds of SD Cards, and it seems that using the SD for the primary storage/OS cuts the battery life a lot because of the increased power draw from having to jump electricity through SD cards? (I haven't timed it yet, but I think battery life went down to about 2-2.5 hours with an active wifi connection and the screen brightness set to black and white sunlight readable mode?) Will do further tests. -Naz P.S. Seriously. Look at the popularity of the homebrew and retrogaming/emulation scene. Opening up sales of the XO to the geeks of the world will also provide the EXACT OPPOSITE of drawing away resources from OLPC. The sheer amount of geekery will give back and produce the amazing kinds of stuff you see from the homebrew and emulation hacker scene, creating troves of the much needed content the XO is lacking. P.P.S. Beggars can't be choosers. Asking for donations but putting conditions on it is just twisted ethics. Just sell 'em at $200 and economies of scale + moore's law will take care of things. P.P.P.S. Seriously seriously WTF seriously. P.P.P.P.P.P.P.S. WTF? WTF?WTF WTF? P.P.S. All snarkiness aside, will post better on why this is really extremely ethical and is the proper way to go. I have to sleep. Very little sleep since monday. nyt all. P.P.P.P.S. re: multitouch go for it! MPX, keep the "2nd screen" as a real keyboard -> power draw of 2nd screen + lack of haptics is a serious functionality problem. thanks to all who replied, such incredible starting points and I've done research on those 2 things I said even googling, but am tickled pink that the methods I outlined are in use :D check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQpr3W-YmcQ&NR=1 too :) nyt -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- adobe user group manager phlashers: philippine flash actionscripters adobe flash/flex/air community http://www.phlashers.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: AMD to stop working on Geodes
it's the low power part that's very important here. it's the XO's incredibly low power consumption that really sets it apart from any other currently in production computer (excluding smartphones and pdas). I'm not really familiar with the new processors from Intel (silverthorne, diamondville) and Via's, but can they run at as low power consumption as the Geode and provide the same (and if not better) MHz bang for the consumption? Do ARM processors do these things better than anything else on the market right now? but then you lose the X86 compatibility and this probably breaks things for cross-platform upstream contributions for any deved/researched write-once-run-many apps/projects. (correct me if I'm wrong, am just speculating because I'm not a CE and as well-versed with computer architecture) I've always loved AMD's cool and quiet technology and am pretty much cursing the unrelenting power draw of my core2-quad desktop coz my UPS battery life has gone down the drain and electric bill has spiked so high since I replaced my lowly Sempron. (I do have the need for speed for rendering) As for games, can we just classify the XO in the same class as current-gen smartphones horsepower wise and not market it as anything other than that? That's pretty much how we're running the Flash Dev for the XO project because that's exactly how the XO performs (and it's a hell of a lot better than any smartphone in the market for heavier mobile computing and education!) On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Carlos Nazareno wrote: >> AMD sees no Geode chip replacement in sight >> AMD on Monday said it has no replacement for the aging Geode low-power >> chips that are used in netbooks and set-top boxes. >> http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/274414/amd_sees_no_geode_chip_replacement_sight > > This has been relatively well known in the industry for a while. It > means they'll keep cranking more Geodes if you want to buy them, but > there will not be a "next" Geode chip. Maybe they'll come out with > another low-power cpu line sometime in the future, maybe not. > > Intel and Via are the most interesting options right now in this > space, and both seem to be working on a "next" chip. > > PCWorld and friends are for the consumer market, so they are about a > year behind on the news I'd say... > > cheers, > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > -- Carlos Nazareno http://twitter.com/naz404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- User Group Manager Phlashers: Philippine Flash ActionScripters Adobe Flash/Flex User Group http://www.phlashers.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
AMD to stop working on Geodes
AMD sees no Geode chip replacement in sight AMD on Monday said it has no replacement for the aging Geode low-power chips that are used in netbooks and set-top boxes. http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/274414/amd_sees_no_geode_chip_replacement_sight Looks like AMD's going to be pulling out of the low-power computing space because of the economic crunch. This is completely wrong and low-power + efficiency is exactly where all computing should go. multicore GHz monsters should be sold to people who really need them and not to joe average who just needs to surf and do ms office work. sorry guys, lack sleep, thanks for all the pointers on multitouch & audio feedback interface - I saw really amazing stuff and am tickled pink that the precise methods I just outlined are already being worked on :) will reply on all these when I get back. This latest piece of news has been an extremely frustrating development for me and goes completely against the grain of ubiquitous sustainable computing for everyone + bridging the digital divide. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong see you guys later. zzzz -- Carlos Nazareno http://twitter.com/naz404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- User Group Manager Phlashers: Philippine Flash ActionScripters Adobe Flash/Flex User Group http://www.phlashers.com -- "if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
