Re: Code walk-through desired

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 00:31, James Simmons  wrote:
> As many of you already know, I have written a couple of Activities
> called Read Etexts and View Slides.  For the most part they work pretty
> well, however they are written entirely in Python by someone who learned
> the language mostly by cutting and pasting code from other applications
> and reading articles found via The Google.  As someone who has
> programmed for a living for over thirty years (Java, C, COBOL, BAL), I
> have to wonder if I really know what I'm doing, or if there is a better
> way to do what I'm trying to do.  For instance, I wanted to show
> progress messages when a user is receiving a shared document, and to do
> that I needed to return control to the pygtk mainloop after each message
> so the screen could be redrawn.  What I did works just fine in View
> Slides, but the same exact code in Read Etexts just makes the Activity
> hang, so I commented it out.  Is it because Read Etexts uses
> multi-threading?  Or is what I'm doing just *wrong* and somehow I'm
> getting away with it in View Slides?
>
> What I could really use, if any of you have the time and inclination to
> do it, is a code walkthrough.  If you look at my code and see something
> you don't like, tell me about it, and maybe point me to an article that
> will help me do it better.  You can find my code by looking at the
> Activities -- All page and following the links to my sugarlabs git
> repositories.
>
> I'm thinking about adding an annotation and highlighting feature to Read
> Etexts.  I've described my ideas on that in the Read Etexts page in the
> wiki.  If anyone has suggestions on how I might implement those ideas in
> Python and pygtk please pass them along.
>
> The members of this list have been extremely helpful in making these
> Activities as good as they have become.  Thanks,
>
> James Simmons

Perhaps you meant to send this to the sugar-devel list?

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Re: Collaboration test environment problem

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 17:46, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 wrote:
> James Simmons wrote:
>> I have two PCs running Fedora 10 and the Sugar RPMs that come with
>> that.  One of the computers runs GNOME and the other uses Window Maker.
>> I run sugar-emulate on both.  One copy of Sugar uses the name "jim" and
>> the other uses "jsimmons".  Both use the schoolserver.media.mit.edu
>> jabber server.  Both are connected to the same router using Ethernet cables.
>>
>> When I go to the neighborhood view (F1) on both I see a number of
>> "buddies".  However, while on the "jim" machine (Window Maker) I can see
>> and invite "jsimmons".  When I look at the same view on "jsimmons"
>> (GNOME) I  cannot see user "jim", although I can see other users.
>
> Do they see the same other users?
>
> schoolserver.media.mit.edu is using the "shared roster", so every user
> should be able to see every other user.  If the asymmetric visibility that
> you describe persists for more than 10 minutes, then you have found an
> extremely bizarre bug.

No, that's not bizarre at all. I don't know who admins that server and
what it's running. I've heard multiple reports of "A sees B, B doesn't
see A" on that server. The bugs in the shared roster are more readily
exposed in public jabber servers.

You shouldn't need a server for two machines: if the machines don't
see each other using link local presence (with no jabber server set)
then it's a Fedora problem.

If you really want to use a server, pick a different one from
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers and try again.

If possible, rather run 0.84.0* and use jabber.sugarlabs.org which
uses the new gadget component for presence.

(* Due to be released today...)

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Re: Guidance sought on collaboration techniques

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 05:44, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> Actually that raises a question, did Gadget make it in to the 8.2.1
> build? Or is this still a future maybe? I take it it is/would be a
> Sugar future feature/dependancy?

It was not included in 8.2.1. It's implemented in Sucrose 0.83.x.

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Re: [Server-devel] Collaboration problem again 0.5.1

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 13:44, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> In other words: @all@ is a valid workaround in all the scenarios I can
> think of.

@all@ should have the same effect in the UI as @online@, but with a
potential difference in the performance: @all@ is the conventional
shared roster and would send you presence for everyone registered on
the server, whereas @online@ is a bit more magic and only sends you
presence for people who are actually on line at the time. Perhaps some
of its magic smoke escaped.

@online@ is more useful for servers where only a (small) percentage of
the registered users are on line at a time.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable "sharing" for an Activity?

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 01:21, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
> There might be something in the Sugar Almanac,
> see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link.
> Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here:
> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75
> Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate
> "collaboration not supported".

Another method of removing the sharing control:
http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/terminal/repos/mainline/blobs/master/terminal.py#line61

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 14:18, C. Scott Ananian  wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:13 AM, Bernie Innocenti  wrote:
>> Martin Langhoff wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian  wrote:
 My suggestions:  DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/).
 There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use
 existing standard solutions.
>>>
>>> Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to
>>> swamp the spectrum with 802.11s.
>>
>> When I read the Zeroconf book, I got the impression that the
>> _standard_ was carefully designed to minimize needless broadcasts and
>> scale well in real scenarios.  I can't comment on the current Avahi
>> _implementation_ though.
>
> This is true for wired networks; not necessarily true for mobile
> and/or wireless networks.
>
> Like Martin, you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD.
>  --scott

Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every
time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump
to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views...
as well as sending who joined and left...

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Re: [Activities] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:17, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this
> Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode.
> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings
> All are encouraged to attend.  I will be especially happy to see the
> following kinds of people well represented:
> - Current and former activity developers, maintainers, packagers, testers!
> - Kind souls willing to help slog through and categorize the hundreds of
> Sugar activities at
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus.
> - Deployment representatives who need activities & activity features
> yesterday.
> - G1G1 participants who want to get involved.
> - Representatives from the other SL teams.

I'd love to be involved, but that's 10PM on a Friday for me... please
take good minutes and I'll try to contribute on the lists.

Perhaps future meetings could alternate with an earlier time?

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Re: [Telepathy] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-gabble 0.7.17

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:51, Morgan Collett  wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:45, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>>>> The "I accidentally an entire call *and* MUC" release.
>>>>
>>>> Tarball:
>>>> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.17.tar.gz
>>>> Signature:
>>>> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.17.tar.gz.asc
>>>> Git repository:
>>>> git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/telepathy-gabble.git
>>>> http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=telepathy-gabble.git (gitweb)
>>>>
>>>> Dependencies:
>>>>
>>>> * dbus 1.1.0 (D-Bus Tubes are no longer conditionally compiled)
>>>>
>>>> * dbus-glib 0.78 (fixes support for complex types in hashtables)
>>>
>>> F-10 doesn't have dbus-glib 0.78, only 0.76 so I can't add this to
>>> joyride yet. Do we want an OLPC-4 branch for dbus-glib to handle this?
>>
>> Its built in rawhide so should be headed to F-10 shortly. If you want
>> it before then we could tag the F-11 version but it would be better if
>> we could wait and then we don't have yet another fork we have to deal
>> with.
>
> OK, I'll wait for it to land in F-10.

Just a note that dbus-glib 0.78 hasn't landed in F-10 yet. I've
updated OLPC-4 to telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 now, but still can't build
it for joyride.

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Re: readetexts and viewslides moved to git.sugarlabs.org

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 17:52, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> On 19 Jan 2009, at 15:19, James Simmons wrote:
>
>> Over the weekend I updated Read Etexts and View Slides to be more like
>> the current Read activity.  Previously they only attempted to save
>> metadata on closing instead of writing a new file.  I was getting
>> "keep"
>> errors because of that, so now I link a temporary file like Read does.
>> I also fixed them so that you can launch them from an icon and be
>> prompted to open an existing Journal entry.  This makes the activities

Great!

>> much more useable, in my opinion, but I am disappointed that I cannot
>> filter the Journal entries by MIME type.
>
> I'm sure I spotted some recent trac chatter covering a new MIME
> filtering ability for the Object Chooser, can't find it again off hand
> just now.

http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3060 -- ooh, it's been fixed. I must
update Read to filter appropriately...

>> The code for both has been copied to git.sugarlabs.org, and I think I
>> did everything OK except I forgot to put the project entry for Read
>> Etexts in the category "activities" and I don't see a way to fix that.
>
> If you go to your 'Dashboard' you'll see your projects listed on the
> right, from there you land in the 'Project Overview' tab, click
> 'Project Settings' and you get to edit all the original fields as per
> when you created the project.
>
>> Currently the code is up to date in both old and new repositories.
>> Should I continue to do that, or should I abandon the old repository?
>
> Same here for me with Moon, I consider dev.laptop.org (for Moon and
> other moved reps) deprecated though I have no idea how to change the
> rep description to show "DEPRECATED - see git.sugarlabs.org" like
> others have done (read and chat). Any hints?

Someone with shell access to dev.laptop.org, and with write access to
your git repo, can edit the file - e.g.
/git/chat-activity/description.

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Re: status of forks

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:47, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>> I see two classes of forks
>>
>> 1. forks to use different compile/packaging options to eliminate
>> dependancies
>>
>> 2. forks to change the code (adding functionality in particular)
>>
>> I'm not _that_ interested in #1, but am very interested in #2, especially
>> anything done to make things work with the XO hardware.
>
> I don't think there are any other than the kernel that are forked for
> hardware issues, and the stock Fedora i386 kernel will work with the
> XO but the likes of numerous ethernet/storage drivers, ISA, MCA, Token
> Ring and the like are of little use for the device :-) . There use to
> be a HW issue in the shipped gstreamer that caused it be be forked but
> I'm not aware of any other hardware issues in mainline kernel issues.

Another reason for forks is Rainbow.

telepathy-gabble and telepathy-salut both had OLPC-3 branches for
8.2.x and have OLPC-4 branches for 9.1.0 because Rainbow runs
activities under different UIDs and they all need to connect to gabble
and salut - so there are two patches for each of these to weaken the
usual UID restrictions. This weakens dbus and socket permissions on a
multiuser system, so the patches are only suitable for running under
Rainbow and upstream Telepathy won't merge them into releases.

Since these are build-time patches, I'm not sure how you would remove
this fork - since regular F-10 and F-11 shouldn't have the patches,
but Rainbow requires them.

Oh, and one more reason for forks/branches: F-10 shipped with Sugar
0.82.x, but [the release formerly planned as 9.1.0] would have Sugar
0.84.x (and has 0.83.x packages in OLPC-4 now for testing on Joyride).

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Re: New joyride build 2613

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 21:42, Mikus Grinbergs  wrote:
>> -sugar 0.83.4-2.olpc4
>> +sugar 0.83.3-1.olpc4
>
> What was wrong with sugar 0.83.4 ?

I also wonder why sugar and sugar-toolkit were reverted.

> Why not start putting 0.84 in Joyride ?

0.84 will only be released in early March:
http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap

0.83.x is a series of "unstable" or developer builds leading up to the
0.84 stable release.

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Re: Deployment image customization

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 18:29, Daniel Drake  wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Greg Smith  wrote:
>> Your suggestion that we allow
>> addition of RPMs and get those built into a signed image via "pilgrim or
>> puritan" is certainly valuable and part of the requirement.
>>
>> However, it doesn't cover a few added things (language settings was
>> specifically requested by Mongolia and others):
>>
>> - Updated language packs (I believe we are trying to make this an RPM which
>> may solve it)
>> - Starting language
>> - Date, time and timezone
>> - Network settings
>
> Well, my suggestion of pilgrim and puritan was only for customising
> RPM packages. For the other things, I wrote:
> "As for other customisations, the current method (customization key)
> works fine for the limited customisations that it allows, so that
> simply needs to be expanded. "
>
> I could have probably worded that better. In other words, my opinion
> is that the existing customisation stick system should be expanded to
> also allow customisation of timezone, language settings, translation
> installation, etc.
>
>> The biggest challenge I see is to find those things which you do not want to
>> "clone" from the source XO. The only things that come to mind are Name and
>> Color. We could even pre-fill them as long as those dialog boxes come up at
>> start up.
>
> There is a lot more than that - it's things that are invisible to the
> user, technical details of the system, which are the bits we don't
> have a good answer for. For example (an easy one), keys are generated
> on first boot, but it is potentially bad news down the line if
> multiple XOs have the same keys. The hard part is tracking these
> things, which are not specified anywhere and there's no one place you
> can look to find them. I wish I could find a link to Michael's mail,
> where he investigated some of these things for an old build, and some
> of the findings were surprising even to us who hack on the system
> level all day...

I believe the mail from Michael that you were looking for is
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-March/012200.html - and
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-April/012957.html is
probably also relevant.

The keys generated in ~/.sugar/default/ are AFAIK not used for crypto,
but are used to generate the unique Jabber ID (JID). If two XOs (or
Sugar clients) have the same keys, Strange Bad Things happen to
presence and collaboration.

>> In short, I like your proposal but I still want a little more :-)
>
> If you're looking for initial high-level action items:
> 1. The discussions on lease delegation / allowing countries to sign
> their builds / providing customised builds for countries need to be
> finished. The outcome would be someone implementing whatever method
> allows country A to say "we want OLPC build B with added RPMs C,D,E"
> 2. Someone needs to implement the customization stick enhancements
> (and surrounding projects, such as xot bundles). Will require some
> modifications on the sugar-level too.
>
> Daniel

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Re: New joyride build 2605

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:41, Mikus Grinbergs  wrote:
>> +sugar-base 0.83.2-2.olpc4
>
> Good to see this up-leveled -- the previous version of this package
> as distributed in Joyride was more than a month old.
>
> However, that still leaves several packages which appear to be more
> recent in 'olpc3' than in 'olpc4'.  Output of 'yum check-update' :
>
> | pyabiword.i386   0.6.1-4.olpc3
> | python-telepathy.noarch  0.15.3-1.olpc3
> | sugar-journal.noarch 100-1.olpc3
> | xorg-x11-drv-evdev.i386  2.0.8-1.fc9

I can comment on a couple of these, but I'm not sure how to fix them:

* pyabiword is newer in olpc3 than fc10, but the spec files are
basically the same - the olpc3 one seems to have had a no-change
rebuild which bumped the version number higher than the fc10 version.
There's no olpc4 version as we do not need to fork from the F-10
version - so we should get the fc10 version into joyride.

* python-telepathy has the same version 0.15.3-1 in fc10 and olpc3. We
should also be using the fc10 version here as we have rebased on F-10
and olpc3 was built on F-9. There's no need for an olpc4 fork of the
package as we are using the same version as Fedora.

* sugar-journal is no longer a separate package in Sugar 0.83, so
there should not be a sugar-journal included in Joyride at all. The
sugar package includes the journal functionality now.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Jabber client activity

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:52, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
> [adding sugar-devel as this is of interest also outside OLPC]
>
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 23:49, Mildred Ki'Lya  wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm new here, and I came interested in the OLPC project because it's a
>> wonderful computer, very well integrated, and I just had one via the
>> European G1G1 project. And now, I thought I could contribute :)
>>
>> I wanted to know if there was any project of creating an activity that
>> would be a jabber client. If so, could I help, where is it? And if not,
>> perhaps I should start one.
>
> Actually, having Chat working as a regular IM client would be very
> interesting and may not be a very big project. The only missing piece
> is being able to add contacts to your roster other than through the
> mesh view.

Chat is at least a partial IM client, with Neighborhood View as a
graphical buddy list. It all runs on Jabber, but only has partial
interoperability with non-Sugar Jabber clients.

With the current stable version of Sugar (0.82 in OLPC 8.2.0) you
cannot see non-Sugar clients in Neighborhood View, but that was an
issue which we have subsequently fixed, and in OLPC 9.1.0 or Sugar
0.84 you will see non-Sugar IM clients as "buddies" in Neighborhood
View.

If a non-Sugar client finds a Sugar user (XO or other) on a Jabber
server and sends them an IM, it will show up in Sugar as a
notification on the screen corner for a few seconds, and then be
visible as a Chat invitation in the frame. (A better notification
system in Sugar will improve its visibility when it happens...)
Accepting the "invitation" opens Chat with a one-to-one connection to
the message sender.

Regular use of Chat as a shared activity creates a Jabber MUC (multi
user chat room).

The missing piece at this stage is allowing the Sugar system to
initiate a one-to-one Chat with a non-Sugar IM client on the Jabber
server, perhaps through Neighborhood View.

> I think the idea is to add a palette option somewhere that allows you
> to type or paste a contact ID so it will appear in your friends view.
> Then you would get presence notification, the ability to chat and
> transfer files, and with some extra work, a/v conversations.

If you can search for users on the server with Gadget, then OLPC 9.1.0
and Sugar 0.84 will have the ability to: See non-Sugar IM clients as
"buddies", friend them so they will show up again on Neighborhood View
in future, and search for them on the server.

Perhaps we just need to ensure that the search can be by JID even if
it's by nick for the regular use case.

Regards
Morgan

> If someone would like to jump on this challenge, it's there waiting for you!
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
>> I just tried to run gajim in sugar,  but it seems because the $HOME gets
>> defined in a sandboxed environment that is erased each time, so I can't
>> keep the configuration :/ On the other hand, I think that writing from
>> scratch a jabber client would require much work, and time I don't really
>> have. What do you think is appropriate?
>>
>> Thanks :)
>>
>>
>> Mildred
>>
>> --
>> Mildred Ki'Lya
>> �q─ ｍｉｌｄｒｅｄ５９３＠ｏｎｌｉｎｅ．ｆｒ ──
>> │ Jabber, GoogleTalk: 
>> │ Site:   GPG ID: 9A7D 2E2B
>> │ Fingerprint: 197C A7E6 645B 4299 6D37 684B 6F9D A8D6 9A7D 2E2B
>>
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Re: [Telepathy] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-gabble 0.7.17

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:09, Peter Robinson  wrote:
> BTW I noticed this changelog entry in the rawhide version of
> telepathy-salut "Enable OLPC support code. It is not used unless a
> client explicitely requests them." would this mean that the forks
> aren't required when this gets pushed to the F-10 packages?

In addition to --enable-olpc we have patches to make tubes work under
Rainbow that are required in the OLPC-4 branch but would weaken
security on the F-10 version - so we still need the fork.

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Re: [Telepathy] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-gabble 0.7.17

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:45, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>>> The "I accidentally an entire call *and* MUC" release.
>>>
>>> Tarball:
>>> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.17.tar.gz
>>> Signature:
>>> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.17.tar.gz.asc
>>> Git repository:
>>> git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/telepathy-gabble.git
>>> http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=telepathy-gabble.git (gitweb)
>>>
>>> Dependencies:
>>>
>>> * dbus 1.1.0 (D-Bus Tubes are no longer conditionally compiled)
>>>
>>> * dbus-glib 0.78 (fixes support for complex types in hashtables)
>>
>> F-10 doesn't have dbus-glib 0.78, only 0.76 so I can't add this to
>> joyride yet. Do we want an OLPC-4 branch for dbus-glib to handle this?
>
> Its built in rawhide so should be headed to F-10 shortly. If you want
> it before then we could tag the F-11 version but it would be better if
> we could wait and then we don't have yet another fork we have to deal
> with.

OK, I'll wait for it to land in F-10.

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Re: [Telepathy] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-gabble 0.7.17

[Morgan Collett]

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 20:33, Robert McQueen
 wrote:
> The "I accidentally an entire call *and* MUC" release.
>
> Tarball:
> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.17.tar.gz
> Signature:
> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.17.tar.gz.asc
> Git repository:
> git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/telepathy-gabble.git
> http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=telepathy-gabble.git (gitweb)
>
> Dependencies:
>
> * dbus 1.1.0 (D-Bus Tubes are no longer conditionally compiled)
>
> * dbus-glib 0.78 (fixes support for complex types in hashtables)

F-10 doesn't have dbus-glib 0.78, only 0.76 so I can't add this to
joyride yet. Do we want an OLPC-4 branch for dbus-glib to handle this?

> Enhancements:
>
> * Add support for the new draft ContactCapabilities spec to communicate
>  tube capabilities.
>
> Fixes:
>
> * Incoming Jingle calls are no longer automatically accepted when the
>  call is connected and the local codecs are ready.
>
> * Incoming MUC invites are no longer automatically accepted when
>  changing your presence.

Collabora, is this relevant to OLPC? If not, we can hold off on
packaging this for now, but if we need it we must make the above
happen...

Regards
Morgan

> * fd.o #18918: Send codec parameters according to XEP-0167.
>
> * Various Jingle tweaks.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> --
> Robert McQueen +44 7876 562 564
> Director, Collabora Ltd. http://www.collabora.co.uk
> ___
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> telepa...@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/telepathy
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Re: Free Software Foundation Files Suit Against Cisco For GPL Violations

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 10:07, James Cameron  wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:27:52PM -0800, Edward Cherlin wrote:
>> Interesting. I have never received a Linux system with either the
>> source code or a written offer of source code.
>
> Oh?  That's not supposed to happen.  If a hardware vendor provides a
> system with Linux on it, that is distribution, and they are certainly
> obliged to provide the source code or offer.  If you received the system
> as hardware only and you obtained the software yourself, then the
> hardware vendor has no such obligation.

Small print on the back of the printed cover of the latest Ubuntu CD
provided by "shipit" includes:

"Source code for Ubuntu can be downloaded from archive.ubuntu.com or
can be ordered from Canonical at the cost of the media and shipping."

This has been on every Ubuntu release since I can remember - since
5.10 (the oldest cover I could quickly find) at least.

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Re: Urgent need of wireless certification

[Morgan Collett]

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 04:02, Pia Waugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Could someone please point me to any wireless certification the XO has
> (European if possible) which should have been a requirement for selling them
> in the UK. I urgently need this certificate to complete the registration of
> the device in Australia and the Pacific. I completed the EMC certification
> process, but to register the device I need the wireless certificate.

"Me too" please, for South Africa...

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Re: Packet loss during wireless scans (Testing needed)

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 03:55, John Ferlito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been debugging a packet loss issue with the VideoChat application
> for the last few days. After a fair bit of fiddling I discovered the
> packet loss is being caused by network scans being performed by
> Network Manager. We are seeing 0.4-0.8 second losses of network
> connectivity when these occur.
>
> I've filed a bug here https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9048
>
> The problem is easily reproducible by doing the following
>
>ping -i 0.1 GATEWAY_IP
>iwlist eth0 scan
>
> You should see two lots of 4 packets drop and the antennae light on
> the XO should flash.
>
> My testing has been on
> Build: 767
> Firmware: Q2E18
> Marvel Firmware: 5.110.22.p18
>
> Could others with other builds please test to see if this has been
> around for a while. Email me privately and I'll summarise in the
> ticket.

Reproduced with 767. No packet loss with 656. Commented on the ticket.

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Re: [sugar] Differents behaviours of my application

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 17:43, Aleix Palet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok, but which command do you use to create the wrapper?? I don't know what
> to put in the:
> python buildskel.py -n JClic -t JClic -t "JCLic" -m (what should i put
> here??)
> Because i unferstand it when you create a game with a "main" funcion, but
> when there is no main?? (only __init__, read_file, write_file as a sugar
> activity)
> and in the activity.info file, do I have to put som special line?? like the
> "class" line?? or the "exec" line??
> Thanks!

Take a look at the source of Productive:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Games/Productive - this was written by Mike
Fletcher who most recently maintained the pygame olpcgames wrapper, so
it should be the most up to date example of using it.

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Re: [sugar] Differents behaviours of my application

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 23:26, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Aleix Palet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Here you have it (the implicated parts):
>> from sugar.activity import activity
>> def __init__(self, handle):
>> activity.Activity.__init__(self, handle)
>> toolbox = activity.ActivityToolbox(self)
>> self.set_toolbox(toolbox)
>> toolbox.show()
>> self.project = None
>> self.bgImageOrigin = Point()
>> if handle.object_id == None:
>>f = FileChooser()
>>file = f.chooseFile()
>>  pygame.init()
>>self.screen = pygame.display.set_mode((1200, 900), 0, 32)
>>self.load(file, None, None, None)
>>
>> def read_file(self, fileame):
>> pygame.init()
>> self.screen = pygame.display.set_mode((1200, 900), 0, 32)
>> self.load(filename, None, None, None)
>> Maybe the problem is how I create the activity?
>
> I think the problem is that you are creating a pygame window that
> occupies the whole screen. Just found this code that may help you:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/geoquiz/source/browse/trunk/olpcgames/activity.py

The git repository for the olpcgames wrapper for pygame is actually:

http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/games-misc;a=summary

The following links are relevant:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Game_development_HOWTO
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pygame_wrapper
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Porting_pygame_games_to_the_XO

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Re: New joyride build 2544

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 19:53, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Peter Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> -sugar 0.82.9-1.fc10
>>> +sugar 0.83.2-1.olpc4
>>> -sugar-artwork 0.82.3-1.fc10
>>> +sugar-artwork 0.83.1-1.olpc4
>>> -sugar-base 0.82.2-1.fc10
>>> +sugar-base 0.83.1-1.olpc4
>>> -sugar-datastore 0.8.3-2.fc10
>>> +sugar-datastore 0.83.0-1.olpc4
>>> -sugar-presence-service 0.82.2-1.fc10
>>> +sugar-presence-service 0.83.1-1.olpc4
>>> -sugar-toolkit 0.82.11-1.fc10
>>> +sugar-toolkit 0.83.1-1.olpc4
>>
>> Is there a reason the new sugar can't go upstream into F-10?
>
> It's very unstable code and contains several big regressions, as of today.
>
> F-10 being on feature freeze, I guess it won't be allowed in.

For distro packaging, we should focus only on the stable release
branches: 0.82.x, and once it's out next year, 0.84.x.

That said, we might package 0.83.x releases in debian unstable and
thus ubuntu jaunty with a view to landing 0.84 without a large delta
when it does release, because that might be after the ubuntu feature
freeze.

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Re: [IAEP] Tentative talk schedule: Nov 19

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 08:49, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 3:07 AM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Does this schedule seem reasonable to others?  (Esp. those I've
>>> pencilled in for talks?)  If you are going to be in town, made a 9.1
>>> proposal (or forgot to), and aren't listed above, let me know.
>>
>> There is a lot of interest about a talk on collaboration, Brendan
>> offered to lead at least part of it. Perhaps we could make it a 2
>> hours slot on the other days, similar to Walter/Christian.
>
> Sorry, I'd originally left that out because we didn't have someone to
> lead it; I was a bit behind on my mail and didn't see Brendan's
> proposal/offer.  Also, it seems like Yamandu will be attending; I'd
> missed his proposal in my original schedule as well.
>
> My current vague thinking is to group the less-technical
> learning-and-content-oriented talks (Yamandu's, OLE's presentation,
> and Chris/Michael's Uruguay report) on another day (Tuesday?
> Thursday?  I'll have to sit down with Bernie again), and to add
> Yamandu-on-i18n to the i18n hour on Wed, if he'd like to make a
> 10-15min presentation.  I think I can squeeze in 30 mins for
> collaboration on Wed if Brendan wants to make a formal proposal; if we
> all just want to sit down and brainstorm collaboration, then a 2 hour
> block on not-Wednesday sounds perfect.
>
> I was really hoping to get Morgs or Collabora to give a 'state of
> collaboration' talk to set the stage.  Hopefully we can get that in
> January's meeting.

Seeing as there will be some discussion anyway, I'll try to write up
something to explain the current state of things and what we were
hoping to achieve next. If there's a possibility of me participating
by phone, and a slot before 3pm, I'd certainly like to join the
discussion.

My intention is more to set realistic expectations than plan future
work, as our resources are rather constrained, and people who would
need to be part of actual planning won't be there.

Regards
Morgan
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Mesh multicast rate

[Morgan Collett]

I'm looking at http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6594 - exposing various
networking parameters in the control panel (or only the command line
version).

I can't find any documentation on changing the mesh multicast rate.
How could that be done, and what are the appropriate values?

Are the parameters in that ticket still appropriate? (Multicast rate,
Mesh TTL, ...)

Thanks
Morgan
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Re: updating telepathy in OLPC's F9-based images

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:29, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm having some trouble updating the telepathy packages in joyride,
> which is a prerequisite for updating sugar.
>
> My plan was to update the telepathy* packages in F9 to the sources of
> those packages in F10, but I'm having some trouble in getting commit
> permissions to do that.
>
> Perhaps that's not the best way and we should request OLPC-3 branches
> instead? Or build packages out of koji until we move joyride to F10?
> Or perhaps we could update to F10 right away? ;)

telepathy-gabble and telepathy-salut have OLPC-3 branches since we
carry rainbow-specific patches for OLPC builds. I have access there
IIRC.

I'll see if I have ACLs to update telepathy-glib and python-telepathy
in F-9 too.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Major differences between releases

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 16:20, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 21:43, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I think it would be a good idea for everyone (activity authors in
>>> particular) to cross-check the changes in what packages are included
>>> in the new stable release, in particular what packages are *going away*:
>>>
>>>http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/update.1-8.2.html
>>
>> That list is slightly misleading, as it includes several cases where
>> two packages were folded into one or a package was renamed.
>>
>> Others changes are inherited from the F7->F9 transition -- does anyone
>> know if Fedora documents API changes between releases of Fedora?
>>
>>> Also, is there any chance someone will take on
>>>
>>>http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4695
>>>(Document API changes between Ship.1 and Update.1 and 8.2)
>>>
>>> after the release before working on the next one?
>>
>> I did see an email from morgs recently mentioning his interest in
>> documenting sugar API changes?
>
> Heh, I did volunteer to broadcast known API changes far and wide, but
> I'll take a look at Sugar API changes as I'm aware of a few of those.
> (Don't let that stop anyone else from looking into other APIs though!)

I've started http://wiki.laptop.org/go/API_changes to track Sugar and
system API changes between releases. It's not very comprehensive so
far - contributions welcome.

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Morgan
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Re: Project name : GCompris has been set up

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 18:06, Bruno Coudoin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Le lundi 03 novembre 2008 à 10:39 -0500, Henry Edward Hardy a écrit :
>> Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:17:14 +0200, Bruno Coudoin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 1. Project name : GCompris
>> Done. Your tree is here:
>> git+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/git/activities/gcompris
>>
>> Please follow instructions here for importing your project:
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Importing_your_project
>>
>> Let us know if you have any problems with your tree. Happy hacking.
>>
> Thanks for the git but I don't really need this. What is important for
> me is a place to put my 100 bundles.

ssh to dev.laptop.org, and put them in your public_html folder. They
will show up at http://dev.laptop.org/~bdoin/

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Re: [sugar] 9.1 Proposal: Files

[Morgan Collett]

2008/10/30 Luke Faraone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 20:50, Bill Bogstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > the fact that they will quickly disappear off the screen, and may be
>> > auto-deleted by the system greatly limits their value.
>>
>> Only if they don't get used.  In which case, those entries should
>> scroll off the bottom and get auto-deleted. The same way that email
>> client users usually delete the 'welcome to the system' email that
>> many systems generate.  Once a user learns the basics of the
>> activities, they will spend less and less time consulting the manual
>> and the screen real-estate it takes up in the Journal is better suited
>> for other things.
>
> Until they need to consult their manual, which sugar decided they didn't
> need and expunged.

The activity itself would still be accessible from Home View, just not
the dummy journal entry that would launch it...

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Re: [support-gang] Postponement of XOCamp Event to January

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 07:52, Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Oct 29 2008, at 21:52, Ed McNierney was caught saying:
>> Folks -
>>
>> The OLPC XOCamp event being planned for November 17 ­ 21 is being postponed
>> until January, 2009.  The Fedora FUDCON conference is in Boston on January 9
>> - 11 , and we will be rescheduling to dates either immediately before or
>> immediately after that event.  I¹d like to make that decision as soon as
>> possible, so if anyone knows of major reasons to choose one over the other,
>> please let me know.
>
>
> I think the week after would best. If we go with the week before, that
> is right after new year's which means more expensive flights and a
> higher chance of folks still travelling.

+1

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[Server-devel] ejabberd shared roster config

[Morgan Collett]

I've been playing around with setting up ejabberd seeing that Debian
and Intrepid ship with the shared roster patches:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_ejabberd/deb

I managed to hack up the shared roster with a minimum of things that
could go wrong, by using:

sudo ejabberdctl srg-create Online your.host.name Online "Online users" Online
sudo ejabberdctl srg-user-add @online "" Online your.host.name

This doesn't work immediately as it creates "@online" @ nothing
instead of "@online@" - but it does populate @online@ into the web
interface, so you just need to log in and submit the form with no
changes under shared roster groups. Then it correctly sets @[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Anyone have a simpler way to do this?

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9.1 Proposal: Link local collaboration

[Morgan Collett]

We need to discuss the integration of Cerebro into our collaboration
framework, including:

 * Review of telepathy-synapse
 * API requirements for Cerebro
 * actual requirements
etc

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Re: [Server-devel] help with small/first world XS deployment issues requested

[Morgan Collett]

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 08:36, Bill Bogstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are a number of  XO deployments possible in the Boston metro
> area sometime next spring.  My understanding is that OLPC does NOT
> want to run these deployments, but is interested in having them happen
> so there are deployments local to the Cambridge office for test
> purposes.  As a result, the local XO users group (OLPC_Boston) has
> been asked to help out.  As my background is in system administration,
> I offered to look into possible XS server deployments at the same
> time.  Even though I've been on server-devel since June; I'm still not
> sure to what extent an XS would be useful in these circumstances.
>
> As I see it, at this point an XS provides:
>
> 1. XO backup service (ds-backup)
> 2. Activation service? (probably not needed since XOs will be G1G1)
> 3. Support for > 20 networked XOs (ejabberd?)
> 4. Moodle server (not clear what this means in terms of funcionallity)
>
> Is that correct?  Is much going to change by January?  For a
> deployment of say 20-30 XOs in one location, does it even make sense
> to have an XS?
>
> Another issue is that reusing available resources (pre-existing
> wired/wireless hardware, dhcp/dns/web proxy/filtering services) would
> be very helpful.  Even if  pre-existing services are inferior to what
> an XS might provide, for political reasons in a small deployment, it
> is probably better fit into a framework with which local IT
> personnel are comfortable.  Unfortunately, my impression is that the
> current XS images are somewhat brittle in terms of assuming they
> control all of the networking services and as well as requiring
> specific IP numbering of various interfaces, control of DNS/DHCP/NAT
> routing/etc.
>
> I understand  the need to provide turn-key software for locations
> where there isn't anyone who understands networking.  However, I find
> myself in the situation where even though I know about netmasks, DNS A
> records, etc.; I have no idea how much of the higher level
> infrastructure on the XS requires leaving things as they are.  For
> example, can I have an XS with a single Ethernet interface?  I think I
> saw something in a config file somewhere that suggested this (doing
> DHCP on the Internet facing interface), but I can't find any mention
> of this anywhere on the wiki.  What if I want DHCP/DNS to be handled
> by something other then the XS, but do what the other services? Given
> the rapid pace of development, it's hard to tell from the wiki pages
> what works/used to work/was never implemented/is an idea for the
> future/etc.
>
> I apologize if the above is confused/confusing.  Unfortunately, that's
> the way I feel at this point.  I've got this big ball of string I'm
> trying to untangle and I have no idea where to start.  Any suggestions
> how to get a handle on this would be greatly appreciated.

For such a small setup you might not need everything the XS provides,
but you would still benefit from running ejabberd somewhere. You can
build it from source with the required OLPC patches:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_ejabberd

I'm going to have a go at producing updated Ubuntu packages for this
ejabberd setup soon.

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Re: [Grassroots-l] World scriptures

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 08:15, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We have a Bible program in Sugar. Sword allows any number of texts,
> dictionaries, and commentaries in any combination of languages to be
> integrated together. I know where many other scriptures in many
> languages are available, and would like to start a project to
> integrate them into Sword and make them globally available. Some of
> the materials are
>
> Qur'an, Muslim
> Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikh
> Tipitaka and Tripitaka, Buddhist
> Kanjur, Tanjur, Buddhist
> Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Hindu
> Laozi, Juangzi, Daozang, Daoist
> Confucius, Mencius, Confucian
> Talmud, Jewish
> Popul Vuh, Mayan
>
> I am open to other suggestions, and will need help with appropriate
> dictionaries and commentaries. This is a large project, and will need
> people with a range of skills. I can contact organizations that work
> on each of the sets of texts listed, but we will need more contacts
> beyond them.

The Sword activity is based on upstream software available for many platforms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_SWORD_Project
http://www.crosswire.org/sword/index.jsp

Since the upstream organisation is Christian, I doubt they would want
to host the texts you have listed. However we can get them to list the
Sugar Sword activity on their site.

My interest is to get the reader localized, and create
easy-to-download bundles containing a specific Bible translation
(http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles) as
appropriate for specific countries. That's probably easier in the
short term than adding in support to download texts within the
activity, especially as they are large files. In my opinion, most use
would be for a specific text, perhaps including an appropriate
dictionary and commentary.

> o Should I create one ticket for the project, or one per religion, or what?

Are tickets necessary at this point? I think tickets are best suited
to discrete bits of work that can be assigned to a person and have a
definite completion. I think the tasks consist of work on the
software, localization, work on the content, and creation of bundles
with specific content.

> o Where can we host this?

We should specifically not use the wiki for hosting the actual
downloads. Downloads from the wiki are slow, and place a lot of load
on it.

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Re: failures disabling security [was Re: journal is hard + sugar and the digital age]

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 18:18,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> erik wrote:
>  > On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 02:30:47PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>  > > 
>  > > On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 12:55:43PM -0400, Erik Garrison wrote:
>  > >> In particular, our security model has the effect of preventing work on
>  > >> this issue that isn't supported by all the core developers.
>  > >
>  > > Scott seems to be suffering from no impediment from our security model
>  > > so please explain your complaint in more detail or
>  > >
>  > >   rm /etc/olpc-security
>  > >   and get on with life.
>  >
>  > I am attempting to disable rainbow security with this command but
>  > finding failures with several activities:
>  > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8834
>
> what is the actual effect of removing that file?  in particular,
> what affect does it have on things specified in permissions.info:
> persistent uid, access to USB serial, etc?  (it may have no
> affect -- but if it disables any of those features, it feels like
> a possible issue.)

The activities should just run as user olpc then, with everything that
olpc has access to.

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Re: Fedora 10 for 9.1.0?

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 18:21, Jeremy Katz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 13:34 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>> do we plan to rebase to F10 for 9.1.0? I'm asking because I'd need to
>> know if I can depend on gtk 2.14...
>
> If not, then you're going to be basing on a Fedora release which will be
> EOL'd[1] very soon after the OLPC release...
>
> Jeremy
>
> [1] Fedora 9 EOL will be 1 month after Fedora 11's release, so say
> June-ish

Then it seems we should have the expectation of rebasing during every
major OLPC release, since we are doing time based releases and so is
Fedora.

This means we need a strategy of to handle this, and not just find
someone for this time, but get better at doing it so that it becomes
less of an issue every time.

Ubuntu rebases off Debian unstable every six months. When a new
development cycle opens, they first update the toolchain - compilers
etc - then have a period to suck in debian packages, then a
stabilisation period, then a feature freeze, then progressively more
freezes before release. See
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule for an example.

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Re: 2 observations (candidate-767)

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 20:22, Chris Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1)  I just did a clean candidate-767
> update for another G1G1-1 XO
> and observed that the initial attempt
> to share a Chat session comes up with
> the "talk bubble" followed by the
> "invite to" without Chat or Chat
> Activity at the end.
>
> After sharing another activity and then
> going back to the Chat, when I shared
> it with a Friend in the Group view the
> expected menu came up:  "talk bubble"
> invite to Chat Activity (or whatever
> it is supposed to be, sorry I did not
> write this down).
>
>
> 2)  I then tried to install and use
> TuxPaint versions 1 and 2 and Squeak.
> On attempting to start either of these
> activities there was a lot of waiting
> and then the activity failed to start.
> The surprising thing was I used Logs to
> look at the logs and they both showed
> nothing.  The actual files are empty.
> Hard to imagine how failing to start
> would not generate an error reason of
> some sort.
>
> --Chris

Verbose debug logs need to be enabled using the procedure on
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Attaching_Sugar_Logs_to_Tickets.

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Re: [sugar] Give a Laptop, Change the World : G1G1 2008

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 23:49, Samuel Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The laptops feature the latest release of the Sugar window manager, running
> on a Linux-based Fedora Core operating system.  For answers to frequently
> asked questions, and for other XO giving programs, see the OLPC wiki.

Just Fedora, not Fedora Core...

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Re: Major differences between releases

[Morgan Collett]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 21:43, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I think it would be a good idea for everyone (activity authors in
>> particular) to cross-check the changes in what packages are included
>> in the new stable release, in particular what packages are *going away*:
>>
>>http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/update.1-8.2.html
>
> That list is slightly misleading, as it includes several cases where
> two packages were folded into one or a package was renamed.
>
> Others changes are inherited from the F7->F9 transition -- does anyone
> know if Fedora documents API changes between releases of Fedora?
>
>> Also, is there any chance someone will take on
>>
>>http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4695
>>(Document API changes between Ship.1 and Update.1 and 8.2)
>>
>> after the release before working on the next one?
>
> I did see an email from morgs recently mentioning his interest in
> documenting sugar API changes?

Heh, I did volunteer to broadcast known API changes far and wide, but
I'll take a look at Sugar API changes as I'm aware of a few of those.
(Don't let that stop anyone else from looking into other APIs though!)

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Re: X2O activity being considered for G1G1

[Morgan Collett]

Hi Alex

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 01:58, Alex Levenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've tested / updated x2o for 8.2.
>
> I filled out a test case: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tests/Activity/x2o but
> for some reason it doesn't get propagated into
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities

No idea, taking this on-list.

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Re: Another pass through some basic Activity test results

[Morgan Collett]

Hi Gary

Thanks for this excellent testing!

2008/9/26 Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Here's a set of basic Activity test results for build 8.2-763, hope the ASCI
> art doesn't get too mangled by the list server (need to view with a fixed
> width font). The Activities are in no specific order, and sorry if I missed
> out yours, but I wanted to post today incase it helps with looming/ongoing
> release decisions.
> I do want to note something I think is new in 8.2-763 since my previous
> tests, 5 times during the run through below the XO
> became extremely sluggish, initially I just thought it was the
> poorly performing Activity, but checking top in 4 cases I could the sugar
> shell process eating 30-50% of CPU but apparently doing nothing (was not
> connected to a jabber server), and in the other case I had 2 rainbow
> processes eating up 45% cpu each (though the Sugar UI showed no Activity
> instances were running). I am now retesting to try and catch the bad
> behaviour as it happens. Just wanted to warn testers to keep an eye on top,
> if things feel slow, you might have a hung-up process burning cycles and
> need to ctrl-alt-escape.

Your diagram looked OK to me, but my comments will probably mangle it,
so I'll try to make it clear what I'm commenting on...

> build 8.2-763   Activity name
> | Could start
> . = success | | Could stop (all must work ctrl-q alt-esc, toolbar,
> Frame)
> - = N/A | | | Sound
> x = fail| | | | Journal entry
> ? = unknown | | | | | Useful resume
> * = see note| | | | | | Picks-up Journal entry name change while active
> | | | | | | | Names Frame palette to match the resumed title
> | | | | | | | | License entry in activity.info
> | | | | | | | | | Using bundle_id in activity.info
> | | | | | | | | | |
> | | | | | | | | | |
> Browse-98 . . . . . x x . x

The first x is for "Picks-up Journal entry name change while active" -
almost every activity "failed" this, so it's likely to be a Sugar
(activity API) bug, not an activity bug. I logged #8678.

The "Names Frame palette to match the resumed title" is also probably
a Sugar issue, but I'm not sure what you mean exactly. If I change the
title of an activity and stop it, then resume it, the frame palette
does show the new name for me, for Chat, which you marked as a
failure. However if I change the name of the activity while it is
running, the frame palette doesn't update to the new name *unless* I
stop and resume. Is that what you meant?

The switch from service_name to bundle_id isn't yet critical, but
needs to be clearly and widely communicated. I'm getting together a
list of such issues to write up and publicize.

>   Chat-47 . . - . . x x . . Some subtle sound for arival and
> departure
> would be very useful.

Sound would be a nice enhancement - I logged #8679.


>  Bounce-6 . . * . . x x x * No sound, not sure if that's a bug or is
> as
> intended. Incorrect bundle_id string.

Sound was broken in pygame and SDL - #8307, should be fixed in 765.

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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: "under a tree" collab

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 20:33, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I had already filed #8354 on the default presence server, and #8353
> included
> misnaming that field in the control panel.   As #8353 was marked a
> duplicate of
> another ticket which didn't include the misnaming, I fear a new
> ticket will have to
> be issued...   Thankfully Eben already volunteered.

Renaming "mesh server" to "collaboration server" is #8623.
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Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 23:54, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We need to pick the activities we ship with 8.2 when its manufactured
> for G1G1 users. Management needs to sign off on the final list as early
> as next week.
>
> Its not definitive but we want your input on what we should include.
>
> What do you think are the most important activities to include?
>
> Please pick up to 10 and put them in order of priority.
>
> We will tally the votes and use that as input to the decision.

My votes:
* Help
* Chat
* Browse
* Read
* Write
* Etoys
* Pippy
* Record
* Terminal
* TamTamMini

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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: "under a tree" collab

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 18:52, Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 17 Sep 2008, at 10:28, John Gilmore wrote:
>
>> Then why can't my two XO's running 8.2-759, both connected to the same
>> access point, see each other to collaborate?  Neither one shows up in
>> the other's Network screen.  When I run Write on one, and enable
>> sharing
>> with My Neighborhood, that copy of Write pops up on its own
>> Neighborhood
>> screen, but never on the Neighborhood screen (nor in the Frame) of its
>> neighboring XO.  Is this a third TRAC bug?
>
> I have a feeling this is a bug/omission but don't have 2 XOs to test
> it and give a detailed trac report (please do if you have 2 XOs to
> test!). I notice that in 711 and back, I see my Mac (with z-conf/
> Bonjour enabled) appears as a buddy on the Neighborhood view when the
> XO is set to an unreachable jabber server and both Mac and XO are
> connected to the same AP.
>
> This is NOT the case for the 8.2 release or joyride stream for weeks,
> perhaps a month or four.
>
> Rumour: I'm sure saw some low level tec references/chatter at some
> point about broken multicast, or broadcast, or some such shenanigans,
> perhaps related to network power suspend wake ups. Any one vaguely
> remember any of this, or am I generating false memories?

This dropped out when we fixed something in Presence Service a while
back. We had to stop showing buddies without a key (which means
non-Sugar avahi/bonjour clients). #7581 tracks reenabling this for
9.1.0, and links to the original bug.

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Morgan
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Re: Wellington test team vs Activities - 2008-09-13

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 06:09, Martin Langhoff
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Story Builder
> - Gorgeous activity, and well thought out lesson plans. Wish all
> activities had this.
> - Very slow - almost unusable
> - Very high cpu usage on idle. Other activities from the same set
> don't suffer this problem.

Thanks!

This is written in pygame using an old version of the olpcgames
wrapper. It runs its own mainloop. When I have time I'll have another
look at it - I'm sure it can be substantially improved.

Logged #8473 to remind myself.

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Re: [sugar] License your bundles, please!

[Morgan Collett]

2008/9/12 Christoph Derndorfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Wouldn't Morgan and his recent survey of activity authors be a valuable
> resource to quickly and directly get in touch with as many activity authors
> as possible?

I'll send this info in my personal replies to them.

The Peru activities at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Peru
include more activities than the G1G1 list - I'll note in the ticket
which ones I have contacted.

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Re: Survey of activity authors

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 13:21, Mikus Grinbergs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I surveyed authors/maintainers of activities hosted in dev.laptop.org
>> git over the past few weeks. The results are summarised at
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Morgs/Activities_survey
>
> I wish that your list were more of a reference document.  [For instance, you
> have left off authors *you* know are keeping up-to-date -- but not everyone
> knows who is being active.]

Good point. I'll expand my report in the next week or so and send out
an update. I'll add those I didn't contact because they are
staff/contractors of OLPC, as well as a list of those who didn't
respond. (I'll ping them just to check if they forgot, or if they are
no longer interested.)

> Plus, my list of "interesting" Activities is longer than yours.  I presume
> that is because you have left off not only known "active" authors, but also
> "not contactable" authors.  Nevertheless, if there was no response for
> Activities deemed useful, they ought to be listed centrally anyway -- in the
> hope that someone would step up and volunteer to follow up on what is
> happening with that Activity.

I contacted those who were using the git hosting. There are more
activities on the wiki that don't use it. I'll expand my coverage when
I have time to include those where I can find contact details.

> It would also help if there were a compendium of contact information
> available.  As it is, one has to search in the Activity's wiki page. [For
> instance, what is the address of the Map activity maintainer?]

In the interests of not increasing their unsolicited mail, I'll
refrain from posting my list of email addresses on the wiki, but this
is a good point: it was not a trivial exercise to get the addresses
together.

I'll work on an expanded list of recommendations including a better
way to publish contact details for activities.

We still need a decent activity portal. I know a couple of people have
looked at the codebase behind addons.mozilla.org, but that didn't get
far yet.

Regards
Morgan
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Survey of activity authors

[Morgan Collett]

I surveyed authors/maintainers of activities hosted in dev.laptop.org
git over the past few weeks. The results are summarised at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Morgs/Activities_survey

Comments welcome.

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dev.laptop.org down or unreachable

[Morgan Collett]

dev.laptop.org is down or unreachable - could it be related to this
MIT planned outage?

On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 19:04, Henry Edward Hardy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There may be some disruption of services at 1cc this week due to the
> announced MIT Media Lab upgrades. At the moment we have no DHCP services at
> 1cc.
>
> --HH.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Jon Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:22 PM
> Subject: [outages] Major file system outages and ML upgrade next week
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> In addition to the outages this weekend (while we rearrange our
> machine room), we will also be upgrading our central file server
> file.media.mit.edu (and its sidekick dell3.media.mit.edu) next week.
> While this service interruption will be less major in scope than the
> ones this weekend, it will still affect many systems here at the Lab.
> It also needs to be done during a weekday so that we can have the
> expert, on-site assistance of the file system software vendor.
>
> The outage will happen either next Thursday, August 28, or possibly
> next Wednesday, August 27 (it depends on the availability of the file
> system expert). Plan for Thursday and we'll let you know as soon as
> possible if it becomes Wednesday.
>
> During the outage everyone's central Unix home directories, and
> machines such as hub.media.mit.edu, ml.media.mit.edu, and
> file.media.mit.edu (including any file shares they serve like machub
> and winhub), will be unavailable. People's personal Web sites served
> by web.media.mit.edu will also be unavailable. The outage will start
> in the late afternoon around 3pm or so and will continue all night.
> Everything should be back online before the next morning. Email and
> general network access will be unaffected.
>
> There is a much less used file server, dell3.media.mit.edu, which will
> go offline the day *before* the file.media.mit.edu outage. This should
> only affect a small number of people who use this server to mount the
> /mas tree under special circumstances in order to work around
> compatibility problems with using file.media.mit.edu directly. This is
> mainly Mac OS X people who have configured the automounter to provide
> access to the /mas tree (and they should know who they are).
>
> Also during this time we will be taking the opportunity to upgrade
> ml.media.mit.edu. This will involve a significant upgrade to ml's
> hardware and operating system.
>
> Currently, ml.media.mit.edu is an AlphsServer DS20 running Tru64 UNIX
> v4.0G. It will be replaced by a Dell PowerEdge running Linux. Email,
> ssh, and ftp services will work as they do now, and the upgrade brings
> with it newer versions of many utilities and packages.  However, in
> the event you have compiled some Tru64 (aka Digital UNIX) binaries for
> use on ml, they, of course, will no longer work.
>
> Our apologies for any inconvenience as we try to fit in all these
> infrastructure upgrades before the start of the semester. Please alert
> us to any problems this may cause so we can work out solutions as
> quickly as possible.
>
> Cheers,
> NeCSys
> If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thanks!
>
>
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>
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Re: OFW Q2E14 is available for testing

[Morgan Collett]

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41, David Van Assche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well my actual intention was to use the actual XOy stuff with the
> eee... not just install debian on an eee... I thought testing
> connecting to the ejabberd server for collaboration services and the
> possibility for it to recognize other laptops including xos as well as
> collaborate with them might be an interesting idea...
>
> I guess I shall try the reverse... install debian, then sugar and then
> see if I can get collaboration working...

That should work fine. The collaboration stack in Sugar is orthogonal
to the network connection method - mesh, wifi, wired ethernet... if it
uses NetworkManager then Sugar will use it.

Debian unstable has Sucrose 0.82, and there's a PPA for ubuntu hardy
on http://sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu.

Regards
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Re: Request: Jabber server for developers

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 20:31, Seth Woodworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I cleaned up some of the Jabber pages on the wiki last night:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Jabber
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Run_a_Jabber_Server
>
> I also added a wiki navigation header in a template: {{jabber}}

Thanks!

> My plan/goal was to provide ''Running a Jabber Server'' as an open task to
> the Volunteer Infrastructure-Gang.  I think that running a really solid
> vmware (or zen) instance of ejabbered would be a really simple and useful
> task for volunteers to work on.

Providing that it is adequately monitored - the community servers have
serious downtime and the admins of those servers don't seem to do
anything about it. Perhaps recommending that the server admin have a
sugar session running on that server on a daily basis to see server
health would be a good thing - or providing a big red email address to
poke when anyone notices it's not working.

> The best first step (IMO) would be to recruit for the Infrastructure-Gang to
> better support public tools created and maintained by the community.

Great, but please don't let that hold us back with getting this up and
running :)

Regards
Morgan

> --S
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:32 AM, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't
>> usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it
>> doesn't have a shared roster.
>>
>> Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their
>> databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so they
>> need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips)
>>
>> We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an
>> interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long
>> time.
>>
>> I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions for
>> others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me
>> with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's
>> behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe.
>>
>> Regards
>> Morgan
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Re: Fructose 8.2 some activities have not been branched

[Morgan Collett]

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 18:41, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I noticed that Calculate and Pippy have not been branched in repository
> while other Fructose 8.2 activities were.
> Actually, when I pushed translations for Calculate of Fructose82 on Pootle,
> that was committed to master.
> (http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/calculate;a=commit;h=61f083e43e176d6cc92dc2213614e9209eebb3b9)
>
> Please fix it if we really want to branch activities..
> Or can we really maintain them simultaneously?

Reinier's branched Calculate. I pinged Chris Ball (pippy).

> Besides that, how will we identify version of both trunk and branch
> version of activities?
> Version number for activities is not like "Major.Minor" but just
> integer (until now at least).
> The scheme seems not good fit for branching.

I've raised this several times, and there have been proposals for
"major.minor", and for supporting the versioning that rpm uses
(alphanumeric) - the point being that there needs to be a way to
compare two versions and decide which one is later. I think the rpm
versioning was favoured because there is existing code which handles
those. However, I don't think the conversation was captured in Trac. I
think Greg was going to log it but I can't find the ticket. I've now
logged #8144.

A workaround was suggested to abuse the current version numbers by
treating 100 as if it was 1.00, and leaving a gap for stable releases
- e.g. Chat-45 in sucrose-0.82, so use Chat-50 or Chat-100 for the
next release off master and Chat-46 for the next release of
sucrose-0.82.

For installing the appropriate version on the appropriate build, the
control panel activity updater in joyride/8.2 can track an update_url
which can specify which activity version is appropriate for which
build stream - e.g. Chat-45 is the latest for 8.2.0, and Chat-47 is
the latest for 8.2.1, and Chat-53 is the latest for 9.1.0... but this
doesn't solve all the cases where we may want to differentiate the
releases in a clearly visible way.

Regards
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Request: Jabber server for developers

[Morgan Collett]

The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't
usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it
doesn't have a shared roster.

Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their
databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so they
need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips)

We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an
interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long
time.

I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions for
others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me
with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's
behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Suspend vs Network Traffic - blockers

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 18:31, Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Aug 13 2008, at 03:27, Ricardo Carrano was caught saying:
>> But the important result is that collaboration does not seem to be
>> working in infra mode. Irrespective of the filter status, no icon is
>> being presented in the mesh view of the other XO. Does anyone else
>> experienced this?
>
> Would this be considered a blocker for 8.2 or do we primarilly
> care about collaboration in mesh mode for deployments?

As I understand it, our most likely deployment scenario is
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Networking_scenarios#School_WiFi, with
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Networking_scenarios#Simple_Mesh for ad-hoc
away-from-school collaboration.

Ricardo, what did you mean by infra mode? Wifi with, or without, a
schoolserver/jabber server?

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Suspend vs Network Traffic - blockers

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:27, Ricardo Carrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (*) Cosmetic: In one test, XO-B was turned off. it's icon disappear
> from A's neighbor view, but not completely (the tip of the head was
> still there)

That's probably a hippo-canvas bug. I've logged #7933 because I
couldn't find an existing ticket.

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Morgan
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Re: Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 15:23, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:47, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 04:42, Bastien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Any follow-up on the idea of having a precise list of maintainers for
>>> all Sugar activities?  Even just the email address from the git repo
>>> would be nice.
>>
>> I've raised the idea a couple of times to have a mailing list
>> specifically for activity developers, which would be uncluttered by
>> all the traffic on the devel and even sugar lists. That would
>> hopefully have the result that people stay subscribed, or at least
>> notice mails which are important to them.
>>
>> Currently, I'm not even sure which list out of devel and sugar is
>> going to reach more activity developers, hence this cross-post and
>> many others.
>>
>> There are a bunch of issues I'm aware of which need to be communicated
>> clearly and widely:
>>
>> * A lot of activities need updating. There are a good number of us who
>> can help, if we can get the attention of the original / most recent
>> maintainers/authors. We would be willing to do new releases, and we
>> will do so (technically forking) without their help if we don't get
>> their attention.
>>
>> * There is a new activity updater in the control panel in joyride.
>> There is a certain procedure to provide specific versions of the
>> activity for specific builds, so that (future) stable builds get a
>> certain version available, whereas development builds can get other
>> versions of the activity. The exact procedures around that need to be
>> communicated, in such a way that a significant number of activity
>> developers *do* them.
>>
>> * It would be great to have a specific procedure for someone to say "I
>> developed this activity, I don't have time to maintain it against
>> future releases, it's available for someone to take over". I suspect
>> several interesting activities are in this position.
>>
>> * We need a way to communicate API changes, new resources, etc to
>> activity developers without this getting lost in the "noise" of the
>> existing lists. We need a way to get clear feedback on these without
>> getting swamped by non activity developers.
>>
>> * We need to make it easier for new activity developers to get up to
>> speed without having to wade through information they don't need.
>>
>> I am happy to take on making this communication happen but I really
>> think we need this list.
>>
>> I know it's yet another mailing list, but I think it will help make
>> our communication more focussed and effective.
>>
>> I'm adding this to the agenda of today's (tonight's for me) Sugar
>> development meeting. Please comment here in advance of the meeting, or
>> come to the meeting for a more immediate discussion.
>>
>> Morgan
>>
>
> We didn't get to discuss this activity developers' mailing list at the
> Sugar meetings. However I've had no negative feedback. If anyone is
> opposed to this list, please speak up quickly and loudly. Otherwise I
> will get it created in the next week, publicize it and invite all
> known activity developers whose email addresses I can track down to
> subscribe.
>
> My only question is whether this should be @lists.laptop.org or
> @lists.sugarlabs.org. Please comment, or I will make it the latter by
> default.
>
> Regards
> Morgan

I'm surveying activity developers of non-current activities - I
tracked down email addresses from git logs and past posts to mailing
lists.

I'll send out a report once I get a significant number of responses.

It does seem like we should address the sugar list moving over to
sugarlabs.org first before considering other changes.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Please help test our new 8.2.0 weekly beta, joyride-2263!

[Morgan Collett]

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 07:33, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Martin Langhoff
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> is there a better / handier way?
>
> On first boot, it found my local School Server and up a big "Software
> Update" window popped, and said "do you want to install all these
> activities".
>
> Colour me impressed. Bravo!
>
> Now, who's coded this up? I am keen on devising a way to fetch the
> activities locally (if an XS is present) via http or rsync.

You must be talking about C.Scott's software updater control panel thingy.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: suspend on 'idle'

[Morgan Collett]

2008/8/8 Ixo X oxI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> One method also to keep the XO from going into 'keyboard-idle' mode...
>
> Sometimes what I do, is hit one of the 'modifer' keys on the keyboard to
> keep the machine awake.  (i.e. Hand, Fn, Ctrl, Shift, Top row function keys,
> etc)
>
> I wonder if there's a method to simulate this in software, so one could keep
> a 'console' window (2 or 3?) open running the 'non-idle-keyboard'
> application and keep the laptop awake when you want it ? :)

http://xkcd.com/196/

:)
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Re: [sugar] How do I connect to a Jabber server ?

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 19:30, Mikus Grinbergs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Morgan wrote:
>>> My _wish_ is simple:  I want a chance to contact (for Chat, or for
>>> collaboration) another XO at a different location.  Basically, for
>>> me to initiate that, that other XO's icon needs to be shown in my
>>> Neighborhood view.
>>
>> Therefore you (and the people you want to contact) need to be on a
>> community jabber server
>
> You are talking about how to *use* a jabber server once one is
> connected.  I do not *have* a connected jabber server.

It should *just work*. However there are many potential problems. You
might be able to help us detect problems we haven't triggered
ourselves, and by providing logs you can help us diagnose and
therefore fix the problem, if it is something we can fix.
Unfortunately there are many situations we can't fix, like a jabber
server not running - it's up to the admin of that server to rectify
that situation, and we are willing to provide assistance with that.

>> To see people from remote locations, you need to be on the same Jabber
>> server as they are.
>>
>> That requires:
>> * Internet access - via an Access Point, or over the mesh via a school
>> server, or over the mesh via a Mesh Portal Point XO which in turn has
>> access, or even via some dialup technology like bluetooth+GPRS.
>> * Network Manager to get an IP address
>> * A jabber server to be configured
>> * That server to be working
>> * Other people to be on the server.
>
> What I an aware of is:
>
>  (1)  Months ago, I would boot my XO, and other XO icons would show
>   up in my neighborhood view (from whatever jabber server I had
>   specified via sugar-control-panel).  Then "remote users"
>   stopped showing up (no matter which server I had specified).
>
>  (2)  I do not myself know enough about 'telepathy', etc., to be
>   able to figure out what is going wrong.  That is why I am
>   asking for assistance.

presenceservice.log and the output of olpc-netstatus should tell us
what was happening. You don't *need* to know much about the details,
but we will explain for all who are interested.

> [I'm a G1G1 user, and do not have a Mesh Portal Point to use, nor a
> school server.  Except for me not connecting to a jabber server, the
> internet works well for me.]

I listed possible use cases to illustrate how the system operates...

>> Connecting to an AP disables the mesh, so I don't see the value of
>> what you want. Turning off the mesh while you are connected to a mesh
>> channel would simply (in the proposal) turn the wireless radio off
>> completely, resulting in neither gabble nor salut able to operate.
>
> Then I believe the language being used is imprecise.  To me,
> "turning off the mesh" means turning off the __mesh__.  If what is
> actually being turned off is the __radio__, then call it "turning
> off the wireless radio".
>
> What I keep butting my head against is not being able to *control*
> what is going on.  In my mind a 'mesh' is one interface, and an 'AP'
> is another interface.  I would like to "turn off the mesh" when
> there are no local XOs, and no school server.  You are saying that
> the 'AP' would get turned off as well.  Not something I prefer.
>
>
>> Mikus, tickets and logs, logs and tickets.
>
> The last time I focused on connectivity was Apr/May.  What I
> concluded then was that my tickets got closed depending on the
> effect they had on the code -- *not* on whether I as a user could
> now experience consistent system behavior.

We do now have QA people who will try the situation out and see
whether the fault was fixed, and a process that involves their signoff
before bugs are closed.

> I'm willing to file a ticket when I see something happening -- such
> as an error when accessing a Jabber server (though one such ticket
> was closed as 'invalid' - because that particular server had not
> given the expected answer).  But it is difficult to decide what to
> ticket/log when I do not see something happening -- for instance,
> what if a connection to a Jabber server were never attempted by my XO?

We appreciate the tickets, even they do on occasion get closed as
Won't Fix, Works For Me, Invalid... That's no indication of your
ticket-filing skills. We fix the things we can fix, and if it's
something out of our control we need to remove it from our work
queues. If there's some other way to resolve the situation perhaps we
can do better about notifying others if their servers are down, and so
on.

The log files should tell us a lot about a given situation.
presenceservice.log tells us when gabble and salut were running, what
disconnected or failed to connect, what buddies were seen and so on.
For any presence-related failure, including not seeing any buddies on
your screen, presenceservice.log gives us an ability to diagnose the
failure. It might not give us enough information, and if there is
ultimately not enough information for us to know what failed we have
no choic

Re: Test results on Joyride 2230?

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 14:03, NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have downloaded it even before it was selected as a weekly stuff.
> Record-54 crashes the build (the machine freezes). I did not create a
> TRAC entry since my last TRAC entry did not receive any attention so I
> just did not care (actually I do not know what to expect). Just started
> the thing and somehow it showed my video and later the machine freezes
> (mouse stops, keyboard cannot switch to console). A week earlier it
> could even show my video. Otherwise it seems to work (I tested it very
> sparingly).

Record-56 is the latest. The software updater in the control panel
should now pick that up.

Regards
Morgan
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jabber.laptop.org

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 14:02, Guillaume Desmottes
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Le mardi 05 août 2008 à 12:24 +0100, Gary C Martin a écrit :
>> On 5 Aug 2008, at 09:46, Morgan Collett wrote:
>>
>> >> The xochat.org jabber server is the one I seem to reliably attach to
>> >> for my XO testing, though I'd love to see an official developer
>> >> jabber
>> >> server, so as not to pester real G1G1 users with my tests, and so we
>> >> can 'eat our own dogfood' in a dev environment**. Connecting to a
>> >> remote jabber server is currently the way to see and share with other
>> >> remote users*** in the neighborhood.
>> >>
>> >> ** perhaps Sugar Labs could run such an environment?
>> >
>> > Collabora run a server which is the default setting for jhbuild:
>> > olpc.collabora.co.uk
>>
>> That's good to hear re-confirmed, but I've not seen any buddies/
>> activities shared on olpc.collabora.co.uk for weeks/months. I'd just
>> assumed your server was always borked by lots of connections, or in
>> some unstable dev status, so I had switched over to xochat.org which
>> always seems to respond and have buddies showing.
>>
>> Using your recent "nc olpc.collabora.co.uk 5222" trick I can now see
>> olpc.collabora.co.uk is responding with some xml just fine. So, is no
>> one else using it, or should I do some debugging? Are you running a
>> dev version of a jabber server that's doing something different?
>
> olpc.collabora.co.uk was recently reinstalled to a new ejabberd server
> in order to test Gadget. The shared roster hack was removed which
> improve stability but doesn't automatically display all the connected
> buddies anymore. Gadget should solve that, I plan to merge it at the
> beginning of the 9.1.0 cycle.

Anyone know the status of jabber.laptop.org? Can someone zap the db
and bring it back up as a developer testing server?

I see the jabber server on schoolserver.laptop.org is also up but not
responding. Perhaps that needs the same treatment.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: [sugar] How do I connect to a Jabber server ?

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 02:56, Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4 Aug 2008, at 23:40, Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
>> My _wish_ is simple:  I want a chance to contact (for Chat, or for
>> collaboration) another XO at a different location.  Basically, for
>> me to initiate that, that other XO's icon needs to be shown in my
>> Neighborhood view.
>>
>> Currently, only icons from the LOCAL mesh to which I am connected
>> will show up in my Neighborhood view.  My question in this topic is:
>> "What do I need to do to have icons from REMOTE locations show up ?"
>
> If gabble fails to get to a named jabber server (set in the control
> panel) it defaults to salute. This may be via an access point (if
> you've attached to one) or via the mesh (if it has no luck with an
> AP). Once it's looking at the mesh it tries each of the 3 slices of
> spectrum available (1, 6 & 11) looking for a school server. If it find
> none it seems to default to go sit on mesh, channel 1, hoping to meet
> another XO there (though it may re-scan occasionally).

Presence Service was designed to run both telepathy connection
managers simultaneously. However, it was confusing to have buddies in
your neighbourhood view who couldn't see each other, and to know which
ones you could collaborate with in one session. So we turn off salut
whenever gabble connects.

salut is usually up first, so it is the default while gabble is
attempting to connect.

> Now the scanning sequence used to be as stated above (previous
> official releases), but in recent joyrides I find my XO immediately
> attaches to my preferred AP and doesn't waist time sniffing the mesh
> (I like this, but 3 kids under a tree may not).

They wouldn't be in range of the AP, or even have a preferred one
configured, so they would get the mesh scanning as usual.

> The xochat.org jabber server is the one I seem to reliably attach to
> for my XO testing, though I'd love to see an official developer jabber
> server, so as not to pester real G1G1 users with my tests, and so we
> can 'eat our own dogfood' in a dev environment**. Connecting to a
> remote jabber server is currently the way to see and share with other
> remote users*** in the neighborhood.
>
> ** perhaps Sugar Labs could run such an environment?

Collabora run a server which is the default setting for jhbuild:
olpc.collabora.co.uk

> *** recently, can even work with non XO jabber clients, though I've
> not been able to test properly yet.
>
> Note: current joyrides past 2241seem to have a broken eth0 networking,
> allegedly the (local) msh0 is still working but I have no way to test
> that side of things with a single XO.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: [sugar] How do I connect to a Jabber server ?

[Morgan Collett]

Hi Mikus

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 00:40, Mikus Grinbergs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My _wish_ is simple:  I want a chance to contact (for Chat, or for
> collaboration) another XO at a different location.  Basically, for
> me to initiate that, that other XO's icon needs to be shown in my
> Neighborhood view.

Therefore you (and the people you want to contact) need to be on a
community jabber server
(http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers)

> Currently, only icons from the LOCAL mesh to which I am connected
> will show up in my Neighborhood view.  My question in this topic is:
> "What do I need to do to have icons from REMOTE locations show up ?"

Connecting to an access point will let you see icons from the local
WLAN via telepathy-salut. This can include regular PCs running Sugar.

To see people from remote locations, you need to be on the same Jabber
server as they are.

That requires:
* Internet access - via an Access Point, or over the mesh via a school
server, or over the mesh via a Mesh Portal Point XO which in turn has
access, or even via some dialup technology like bluetooth+GPRS.
* Network Manager to get an IP address
* A jabber server to be configured
* That server to be working
* Other people to be on the server.

> What I am particularly interested in was Eben's statement that the
> user could turn the mesh on/off with the icon in the Frame.  I'm
> getting much too much 'salut' - I'm hoping that "turning off the
> mesh" (*all* of its channels) would give more emphasis to 'gabble'.

salut may overwhelm a busy mesh network with many XOs. That would deny
service to gabble. Otherwise, gabble takes precedence and will connect
if it can.

Connecting to an AP disables the mesh, so I don't see the value of
what you want. Turning off the mesh while you are connected to a mesh
channel would simply (in the proposal) turn the wireless radio off
completely, resulting in neither gabble nor salut able to operate.

> 
>>> Suddenly the communications link
>>> between the school and the internet fails.  If the kid happens to be
>>> within range of an alternate AP, does he have to do something
>>> manually (such as entering the name of a non-school Jabber server)
>>> to re-establish Jabber contact to the outside world ?

For the known future, school servers will not usually be public. Hence
"re-establish Jabber contact to the outside world" has nothing to do
with a school server.

>> But I think you're mixing up "connected to
>> a Jabber server / server-cloud" and "connected to an AP".
>
> I don't think I am.  When I go to someplace that has wireless, and
> check my XO, I'm seeing that it connects fine to websites (meaning
> that the AP must be working), but whenever I then do 'ps -A' I see
> 'salut' (meaning that 'gabble' must be giving up).

Yes, gabble must be giving up.

Mikus, tickets and logs, logs and tickets. Please. Anecdotes of it not
working are of marginal value and cannot help us debug. We need as
much detail as you can possibly give. Which servers did you try? Did
you do any other type of check to see if they were up - such as nc
 5222? presenceservice.log? telepathy-gabble.log? Which
establishment provided the AP? Can we do anything to detect if they
are filtering ports? Did you have to log on with some sort of portal
web page to get Internet access?

> Currently there is only a *single* field for specifying the  server> name (and I've tried many names) - so I expect that when the
> currently specified one is not working, the user has to manually
> enter the name of a different .

Consider it a bug when a server is not working. There is no point in
failing over to other servers without user intervention.

The community jabber servers are for specific communities. If the
whole world joins, of course the server will be swamped and it will be
down for everybody.

> What my question dealt with was "how is use of the 'school server'
> as the  specified?"   [I have not seen an answer.]
>
>  -  If the kid has to manually enter an internet-resolvable name for
> the 'school server', then obviously while the 'school server' is
> down, the kid has to enter a different name to continue to use
> Jabber.
>
>  -  But if the use of the 'school server' as __also__ the  server> is *automatic* whenever the XO connects to the 'school
> server', then my question is "When the  at the
> school fails, HOW does the XO know to start instead using the
> specified "Jabber server name" for Jabber-type connections?"

It is specified in the same field as for any other jabber server.
However, the kid simply clicks "Register" on the home menu, and the XO
registers with the school server on the network, if there is one,
which automatically populates the jabber server field, so there is no
"manually enter an internet-resolvable name for the 'school server'".

There is no failover. The school server is supposed to work, and keep
on working. Using a different jabber server is a choice, a

Re: [sugar] How do I connect to a Jabber server ?

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 16:42, Martin Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 10:10:09PM -0400, Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
>> p.s.  These may be written down somewhere - but I've not been able
>> to find explanations for "how to move a connection" :
>
> It Just Happens - Network Manager notices a connection is down
> (somehow? probably device- & kernel-specific) and starts looking for
> new ones.  But applications probably won't like this.  There was a
> huge thread on devel@ in Jan/Feb IIRC debating this, but basically I
> think activities (the underlying APIs they use, mostly) will vary in
> how well they deal with IPs changing and their network sockets getting
> closed.

Yes, #5620 - activity collaboration can't migrate from one connection
to another, and doesn't typically detect a break.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Collaboration Requirements

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 15:43, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> OK, I can use RFC style language instead of my "must" and "should"
> definitions if that helps us communicate better. I'm not up to full RFC
> format but I can try to get as close as needed.
>
> I don't see "must/should/nice to have" defined in this link:
> ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2223.txt

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2119.html

Regards
Morgan

> Did I miss it or do you have a link the definitions you want to use handy?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
>
> Martin Langhoff wrote:
>> n Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:16 AM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> First Michael:
>>>  > This feels very similar to an RFC.
>>>
>>> GS - Its not meant to be an RFC
>>
>> I think Michael was just suggesting a time-saving device: you defined
>> "should", "must", etc, and there's a common standard for that kind of
>> verbiage that is used in RFCs. I think it's a good timesaver - all
>> technical ppl around here know about the RFC convention :-)
>>
>>>  > We're actually on the trailing edge of collaboration technology
>>
>> And I think you're *both* exaggerating, and being leading edge doesn't
>> matter that much. We want collab that is useful in education. We are
>> trailing our own expectations, and we'd like to do better.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>> m
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Re: Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 15:23, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I've raised the idea a couple of times to have a mailing list
>> specifically for activity developers, which would be uncluttered by
>> all the traffic on the devel and even sugar lists. That would
>> hopefully have the result that people stay subscribed, or at least
>> notice mails which are important to them.
>>
>> Currently, I'm not even sure which list out of devel and sugar is
>> going to reach more activity developers, hence this cross-post and
>> many others.

I've been looking at the OLPC wiki, to see what we are advising
contributors to sign up for:

* http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developers_program#Project_Hosting points
to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Project_hosting which says subscribe to
devel@ when asking for project hosting.

* http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developers_program#Expectations_of_Recipients
points to 
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developers/Communication#Minimum_Communication_Requirements
which says subscribe to community-news@ and [EMAIL PROTECTED]

So IMO the sugar list is more relevant, but the devel list is more
likely to reach everyone. Cross-posting to every list all the time
seems counter to netiquette, and as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting says, "if all messages were
crossposted to every group, then every group would look exactly the
same."

What I want out of this discussion is a clear recommendation for
activity authors to subscribe to a particular place that we can count
on, to the extent that that is possible.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Morgan Collett]

Thanks Martin and Albert for your dissenting opinions. They are valuable.

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 13:36, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Morgan Collett
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I am happy to take on making this communication happen but I really
>> think we need this list.
>
> FWIW, Sugar + activities are still somewhat tightly coupled, as Sugar
> and the underlying OS API are changing. As long as that is true, to
> maintain an activity to a good standard, you have to keep an eye on
> devel@ and/or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> My rule of thumb is to try and keep people together -- recommending
> filters sometimes -- until the traffic gets so heavy *and* a distinct
> subcommunity can be split off. IMHO neither is true here (yet!).

In my experience the activity developer community has lost many
participants already. Perhaps they weren't going to stay anyway,
beyond an initial

> The flip side is that offering a new ml to a small/medium sized group
> is a great way to *kill* that group. It is an excellent troll mgmt
> strategy.

The last thing I want to do is fragment the community.

Let me add some personal context: I started out writing a couple of
activities for MaMaMedia. At that time it was very confusing trying to
figure out the state of the platform. Going by the HIG, there was this
excellent feature called the Bulletin Board which seemed exactly what
I needed. Also, the collaboration features were exactly what I wanted.
I had to ask on IRC to find out the bulletin board was non-existant
and the collaboration was only partially implemented and only in a
single existing activity.

I personally found the best approach was to follow all communication
channels to try and figure out what worked and what didn't, and what
the best way to use the existing features was. I subscribed to all the
technical mailing lists. I stayed logged on to IRC and read the
backlogs every morning. It worked for me.

However, most other activity authors that I was aware of, have
vanished. They haven't updated their activities in months (if at all
this year). I'm quite certain that mailing devel@ or sugar@ will not
get their attention. Those are both high traffic lists, with a lot of
traffic not relevant to activities, as Martin Dengler has analysed:

2008/8/3 Martin Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I'm not sure I agree - sugar@ has so much traffic not
> relevant to "casual" activity authors (for example, your
> "Congratulations..." thread).
>
> I can't believe I did this, but I went through the July sugar@
> messages and categorized them into ones I thought would be appropriate
> for the AA list and ones not (thus for the current sugar@ list).
>
> Totals:  808 messages
> AA - 293 messages 36.3%
> SS - 515 messages 63.7%
>
> You may see the details here:
> http://dev.laptop.org/~mdengler/sugar_list_july_2008_categorized.txt

My hope is to have a mailing list that is the *last* one that an
overwhelmed developer will unsubscribe from, so we can still reach
them.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: [sugar] How do I connect to a Jabber server ?

[Morgan Collett]

Hi Mikus

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 04:10, Mikus Grinbergs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eben wrote:
>> There has been lots of confusion about the difference between mesh and APs.
>>  They're really not the same at all, apart from the fact that they both
>> depend on the radio.  The new design no longer treats the mesh channels as
>> objects in the Neighborhood view.  Instead, there will be (is? not sure if
>> the patch landed yet) a mesh device in the Frame, which you can turn on (and
>> off?) at whim.
>
> I am anxiously waiting to *use* some of these improvements.
>
> 
>
> For the last several months, I've __NOT__ been able to connect to a
> Jabber server.  When I look at the running tasks, it's always salut.
> The XO is supposed to retry reaching the Jabber server every 320
> seconds -- but mine (using Joyride) has not had recent success.
>
> Last spring, this all worked for me the way it was supposed to work.
> But since then, new OLPC software versions have been released -- and
> in my experience my OLPC is no longer connecting to a Jabber server.

Please file a bug the next time you can reproduce this. Please include
presenceservice.log and telepathy-gabble.log with debug logs enabled
in .xsession. (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Telepathy-debug)

If there is a regression, it's a bug.

Please don't hesitate to log bugs. In the worst case we never find a
reproducible problem. In the second worst case, we close it as a
duplicate of another existing bug. No, I change my mind: in the worst
case there is a regression, and we never get a trackable record of it
or logs. Please log bugs at the slightest hint of a problem that
happens more than once, and include all possible logs you can.

> [I don't have wireless at home, so I have to wait until I go to some
> sort of establishment that provides an AP.  But even when I am able
> to surf the net from my XO, I'm not connecting to any Jabber server.
> I've tried many - *surely* at least one should be working.]

One quick way to see if a jabber server is up: (you will need to
install nc first, with sudo yum install nc)

$ nc xochat.org 5222

Type anything and press Enter, you should see some XML returned if the
server is up, e.g.  
>
> For people in my situation, what I want is to be able to 'turn off'
> the XO trying to reach the 'school server' via the mesh (I'm a G1G1
> user, and will *never* have a 'school server' where I live).
> Instead, I want my XO to try HARDER, via the AP to which it is
> connected, to reach whatever (Jabber) server I've specified.
>
> mikus
>
>
>
>
> p.s.  These may be written down somewhere - but I've not been able
> to find explanations for "how to move a connection" :
>
> (A)  Suppose a kid is communicating with his 'school server' via the
> mesh.  Then he walks so far away that his radio no longer reaches
> the school.  If he happens to be within range of an alternate AP,
> how would the transfer from 'using mesh addressing for the school'
> to 'using internet addressing for the school' be handled?  [Does the
> kid ever have to do something manually, such as re-starting Sugar ?]

You have to explicitly connect to the AP by clicking on it, since the
mesh could "heal" at any time by you walking back or someone else
appearing within range.

The schoolserver would only be accessible via the AP if it has a
public DNS entry and accepts connections from the outside. Connections
over the mesh to the schoolserver typically have an RFC1918 private IP
address.

> (B) Suppose a kid is using the Jabber facilities at his school to
> contact an "overseas" buddy.  Suddenly the communications link
> between the school and the internet fails.  If the kid happens to be
> within range of an alternate AP, does he have to do something
> manually (such as entering the name of a non-school Jabber server)
> to re-establish Jabber contact to the outside world ?

At this stage, the overseas buddy would have to be registered on this
kid's school jabber server, to collaborate, since we do not have
server to server federation. In that case, if this kid can't access
his school jabber server in any way, communication breaks down. See
above about connecting via AP.

Alternatively, this kid would have to register with an external jabber
server (thereby disconnecting from his own school jabber server) to
communicate with the remote buddy in the first place. Either way, no
changing jabber server names is required to *re-establish*
communication, but he would have to switch to the AP by clicking on
it.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:47, Morgan Collett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 04:42, Bastien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Any follow-up on the idea of having a precise list of maintainers for
>> all Sugar activities?  Even just the email address from the git repo
>> would be nice.
>
> I've raised the idea a couple of times to have a mailing list
> specifically for activity developers, which would be uncluttered by
> all the traffic on the devel and even sugar lists. That would
> hopefully have the result that people stay subscribed, or at least
> notice mails which are important to them.
>
> Currently, I'm not even sure which list out of devel and sugar is
> going to reach more activity developers, hence this cross-post and
> many others.
>
> There are a bunch of issues I'm aware of which need to be communicated
> clearly and widely:
>
> * A lot of activities need updating. There are a good number of us who
> can help, if we can get the attention of the original / most recent
> maintainers/authors. We would be willing to do new releases, and we
> will do so (technically forking) without their help if we don't get
> their attention.
>
> * There is a new activity updater in the control panel in joyride.
> There is a certain procedure to provide specific versions of the
> activity for specific builds, so that (future) stable builds get a
> certain version available, whereas development builds can get other
> versions of the activity. The exact procedures around that need to be
> communicated, in such a way that a significant number of activity
> developers *do* them.
>
> * It would be great to have a specific procedure for someone to say "I
> developed this activity, I don't have time to maintain it against
> future releases, it's available for someone to take over". I suspect
> several interesting activities are in this position.
>
> * We need a way to communicate API changes, new resources, etc to
> activity developers without this getting lost in the "noise" of the
> existing lists. We need a way to get clear feedback on these without
> getting swamped by non activity developers.
>
> * We need to make it easier for new activity developers to get up to
> speed without having to wade through information they don't need.
>
> I am happy to take on making this communication happen but I really
> think we need this list.
>
> I know it's yet another mailing list, but I think it will help make
> our communication more focussed and effective.
>
> I'm adding this to the agenda of today's (tonight's for me) Sugar
> development meeting. Please comment here in advance of the meeting, or
> come to the meeting for a more immediate discussion.
>
> Morgan
>

We didn't get to discuss this activity developers' mailing list at the
Sugar meetings. However I've had no negative feedback. If anyone is
opposed to this list, please speak up quickly and loudly. Otherwise I
will get it created in the next week, publicize it and invite all
known activity developers whose email addresses I can track down to
subscribe.

My only question is whether this should be @lists.laptop.org or
@lists.sugarlabs.org. Please comment, or I will make it the latter by
default.

Regards
Morgan
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XOs on AP unpingable after wakeup/startup

[Morgan Collett]

I've got 4 C2s on my access point running joyride - currently 2200 and
2210. If I power them on, or wake up from a power-button-induced
sleep, and make sure they are on my AP, they will see each other with
salut (multicast) but not be able to connect to my jabber server or be
pingable from other hosts on my WLAN. I get "Destination Host
Unreachable". I get the same result (Destination Host Unreachable) if
I try to ping my laptop from one of the XOs.

If I ping them from my laptop it takes somewhere between 100 and 300
packets before they start responding. Then usually they start
responding to ping, ssh, etc and can access the jabber server (on my
laptop). Some times I don't manage to get one or more of them
connected without rebooting.

Other devices on my network (2 PCs and an N810) are pingable as soon
as they are on the network.

Is this a known issue? Could it be my access point (a Mercury KOB
WL465, not that I expect to find anyone else with one...)?
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Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 04:42, Bastien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Any follow-up on the idea of having a precise list of maintainers for
> all Sugar activities?  Even just the email address from the git repo
> would be nice.

I've raised the idea a couple of times to have a mailing list
specifically for activity developers, which would be uncluttered by
all the traffic on the devel and even sugar lists. That would
hopefully have the result that people stay subscribed, or at least
notice mails which are important to them.

Currently, I'm not even sure which list out of devel and sugar is
going to reach more activity developers, hence this cross-post and
many others.

There are a bunch of issues I'm aware of which need to be communicated
clearly and widely:

* A lot of activities need updating. There are a good number of us who
can help, if we can get the attention of the original / most recent
maintainers/authors. We would be willing to do new releases, and we
will do so (technically forking) without their help if we don't get
their attention.

* There is a new activity updater in the control panel in joyride.
There is a certain procedure to provide specific versions of the
activity for specific builds, so that (future) stable builds get a
certain version available, whereas development builds can get other
versions of the activity. The exact procedures around that need to be
communicated, in such a way that a significant number of activity
developers *do* them.

* It would be great to have a specific procedure for someone to say "I
developed this activity, I don't have time to maintain it against
future releases, it's available for someone to take over". I suspect
several interesting activities are in this position.

* We need a way to communicate API changes, new resources, etc to
activity developers without this getting lost in the "noise" of the
existing lists. We need a way to get clear feedback on these without
getting swamped by non activity developers.

* We need to make it easier for new activity developers to get up to
speed without having to wade through information they don't need.

I am happy to take on making this communication happen but I really
think we need this list.

I know it's yet another mailing list, but I think it will help make
our communication more focussed and effective.

I'm adding this to the agenda of today's (tonight's for me) Sugar
development meeting. Please comment here in advance of the meeting, or
come to the meeting for a more immediate discussion.

Morgan
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Re: New joyride build 2232

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:07, Simon Schampijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Morgan Collett wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 23:44, Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2232
>>>
>>> Changes in build 2232 from build: 2230
>>>
>>> Size delta: 0.14M
>>>
>>> -kernel 2.6.25-20080728.1.olpc.a3851e734bcee1b
>>> +kernel 2.6.25-20080730.1.olpc.85e8ce3752b87a2
>>
>> Seeing as we still don't get changelogs for some packages in these
>> mails, is it possible for those who introduced the change to reply to
>> these mails and let us know a quick summary of what was changed, or
>> fixed?
>
> Would be good to know why the changelogs of some packages are not picked up.
> For example for hulahop that i just released I wrote the changelog entries
> but they did not show up. Anything special you need to do or is it just the
> script that fails for some reason?

I just remembered Michael's recent call for assistance in this regard,
which I think is worth repeating:

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 02:45, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 4. In preparation for the full-blown regression tests that we will run in
> coming weeks, it would be very helpful if we received more detailed
> package-level ChangeLog entries and if we did better job of displaying the
> ChangeLog and related-tickets data that we currently have available.
>
> (In addition, anyone who further improves Reinier's, Bert's, and Marco's
> announcer scripts will earn a drink or treat from me.)

Regards
Morgan
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Re: New joyride build 2232

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 23:44, Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2232
>
> Changes in build 2232 from build: 2230
>
> Size delta: 0.14M
>
> -kernel 2.6.25-20080728.1.olpc.a3851e734bcee1b
> +kernel 2.6.25-20080730.1.olpc.85e8ce3752b87a2

Seeing as we still don't get changelogs for some packages in these
mails, is it possible for those who introduced the change to reply to
these mails and let us know a quick summary of what was changed, or
fixed?
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Activity versions in Activities/G1G1

[Morgan Collett]

Hi Scott,

You edited the [[Activities/G1G1]] page to change Chat from 35 to 42
(http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Activities/G1G1&diff=0&oldid=147844).
However the version of Chat in the G1G1 Activity Pack linked from that
page is 35.

There is unclarity on the talk page too:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Activities/G1G1

Chat-42 probably works on 703/708 but I have been testing that lately.
In particular, I introduced PS API improvements in the 8.2 development
cycle which, if I had been using in Chat, would have rendered it
inoperable on 708. (The old API still works fine, but using the new
API would simplify the activity code.)

Can we agree on the appropriate use of this page?

Thanks
Morgan
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Re: New joyride build 2223

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 23:37, Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2223
>
> Changes in build 2223 from build: 
>
> Size delta: 0.00M
>
> -olpcupdate 2.11-1
> +olpcupdate 2.12-1
>
> --- Changes for olpcupdate 2.12-1 from 2.11-1 ---
>  + Support 'low' priority updates (not applied automatically).
>  + Add '--latest' option to olpc-update (dlo trac #4325).
>  + Fix olpc-update-query, which is broken in 2.10 and 2.11.

These aren't documented on [[olpc-update]]. Can you add them?
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Re: Random observations with joyride-2225 and latest activities

[Morgan Collett]

2008/7/29 Christoph Derndorfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been running joyride-2225 with what I believe to be the latest versions
> (as per the update software functionality of the sugar-control-panel) of
> some core activities. In the past half hour I have stumbled across some
> issues that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else so I thought I'd share
> them:
>
> a) Record: using v56 the activity starts up fine, the display shows whatever
> the camera is capturing, I can go into fullscreen-mode, switch to different
> tabs, etc. However once I press the "capture"-button the whole thing
> basically freezes, sometimes I was still able to move the mouse but clicking
> wouldn't have any impact, at other times Sugar completely froze and I had to
> do a hard reset of the XO.
> b) TurtleArt: v7 is missing an "l" in the activity title so we're looking at
> "TurteArt"
> c) Read: This activity is only useful if started by clicking on a file with
> a mime-type that's associated to read. However it still shows up in the list
> view of the home-view even though you actually can't do anything with it
> once you start it. The activity.info file has the "show_launcher" property
> to define that behavior, not sure whether in this case it's simply set
> wrongly in the read .info or whether the list-view presently ignores this
> attribute.
> Another odd issue is that when you open read from the list / favorites view
> and you then want to close it you're presented with a "keep error" message
> which seems quite useless considering the fact that no activity / file was
> actually resumed. Again, not sure whether that's an issue with read or the
> underlying Journal structure.
> d) Brightness adjustment: up to 708 and most earlier joyrides that I have
> used in the past weeks allowed you to immediatly turn of the backlight by
> pressing ctrl + reduce brightness button. With joyride-2225 this doesn't
> work anymore.
>
> Let me know what you think.

I think these are all worthy of a ticket. Some of them may be already
reported, but it's probably worth having duplicates rather than an
issue not reported at all. If you have time for some ticket triage,
then you could check if there are existing tickets. For example, I
know the "TurteArt" is an old issue.

Raising them on the mailing list is good too, since in some cases the
default Trac assignees for activities aren't responsive.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: how to get a screenshot

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 17:03, Victor Lazzarini
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I need to get a screenshot of an activity and I am wondering what is
> the best way:
>
> 1. using sugar-jhbuild on fedora: the only problem here is that the
> widgets have  all wrong sizes (how to fix this?)

Run sugar-emulator -x in a ./sugar-jhbuild shell, instead of
./sugar-jhbuild run (AFAIK)

> 2. using the XO: I have no idea how to print the screen.

Alt-1 does a screenshot as an image to the Journal.

Regards
Morgan
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Re: New joyride build 2200

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 21:04, Benjamin M. Schwartz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Build Announcer v2 wrote:
> | +perl 4:5.10.0-30.fc9
> | +perl-Module-Pluggable 1:3.60-30.fc9
> | +perl-Pod-Escapes 1:1.04-30.fc9
> | +perl-Pod-Simple 1:3.05-30.fc9
> | +perl-libs 4:5.10.0-30.fc9
> | +perl-version 3:0.74-30.fc9
>
> LOL.

A temporary setback. The Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister will
be removed again shortly...
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Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 04:21, Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here's a small Python script that acts as a final fail-safe in the event
> that the datastore is full and we can't boot because of it, by deleting
> datastore files largest-first until we cross a threshold of how much
> free space is "enough".  It could be incorporated into the Python init
> process.  (See #7591 for more detail.)

Another approach of which I vaguely remember discussion, is be
deleting activities instead of data. (Except for Browse, and
Terminal... so you can possibly get them back again!)

There would then be a symptom which they would hopefully notice before
hitting the unbootable state, so they would know what caused it and
hopefully avoid it.

Morgan
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Re: [laptop.org #16813] joyride builds failing due to insufficient space

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 20:29, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:03 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  sugar - 0.81.6-4.20080715git8137d5c37f.fc9.i386: Insufficient space
>> in download directory
>> /home/cscott/public_html/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2187-20080720_2235/devel_jffs2/install_root/var/cache/yum/olpc_development/packages
>> to download
>
> It looks like xs-dev.laptop.org has plenty of space in the specified
> directory.  After cleaning up the incomplete builds, it seems like the
> "new" problem is related to abiword-plugins:
>  
> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2188/devel_jffs2/build.log
>
> Transaction Check Error:
>  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiCollab.so conflicts between
> attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiOpenDocument.so conflicts
> between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libLoadBindings.so conflicts
> between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>  file /usr/share/abiword-2.6/glade/ap_UnixDialog_CollaborationJoin.glade
> conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>
> It looks like we branched libabiword for olpc3 but didn't branch
> libabiword-plugins?  Does anyone on devel@ know who did that, and who
> can fix it?  Thanks.

Marc Maurer (uwog) did it.

>From an irc conversation, it appears that libabiword now includes the
plugins. If it's time sensitive and he hasn't confirmed, drop
libabiword-plugins from the build until he can explain.

Here's the irc log in case I'm reading it wrong.

Jul 17 15:21:56   dgilmore: ok, in fedora i have 1 abiword package
Jul 17 15:22:23   dgilmore: for olpc, we have libabiword,
libabiword-plugins, and pyabiword
Jul 17 15:22:33   dgilmore: the question is, how to merge
Jul 17 15:22:35   uwog: ok
Jul 17 15:23:00   dgilmore: i can in fedora build libabiword and
abiword from 1 source rpm
Jul 17 15:23:10   uwog: can we make abiword  use
libabiword libabiword-plugins and pyabiword?
Jul 17 15:23:12   dgilmore: pyabiword then depends on libabiword
Jul 17 15:23:20   uwog: ok
Jul 17 15:23:31   dgilmore: but in fedora, i do NOT want a
seperate plugins package
Jul 17 15:23:36   uwog: have you talked with the fedora
maintainer of abiword?
Jul 17 15:23:45   dgilmore: that's me
Jul 17 15:23:53   uwog: :)  makes it easy then
Jul 17 15:24:02   dgilmore: i wish :)
Jul 17 15:24:14   well makes co-ordinating easy
Jul 17 15:24:41   dgilmore: what i could do, is ditch the
olpc-specific libabiword-plugins package, and just include the plugins
in libabiword
Jul 17 15:24:57   uwog: how about you make the
libabiword-plugins  package built when defined by a macro
Jul 17 15:25:07   also an option
Jul 17 15:25:25   but what would that gain us ?
Jul 17 15:25:30   uwog: then you can have a branch  copy
over from fedora change a defines   and build
Jul 17 15:25:57   uwog: what does the plugins package get us?
Jul 17 15:26:04   well, plugins
Jul 17 15:26:05   :)
Jul 17 15:26:08   but fedora does not have it
Jul 17 15:26:18   it's all currently included in 1 abiword package
Jul 17 15:26:19   is there a good reason to have it seperate?
Jul 17 15:26:47   i.e.  why did you do it that way in
the first place?
Jul 17 15:27:25   dgilmore: because abiword was shipped for
2.6.x as 2 different tarballs i guess
Jul 17 15:27:34   i doubt there was more rationale than that
Jul 17 15:28:30   dgilmore: do you know if 'fedora' would mind
if i all of a sudden split out libabiword during the f9 cycle ?
Jul 17 15:30:13   uwog: its not ideal,  but as long as
someone running yum update gets the same functonality then it will be
ok
Jul 17 15:30:26   ok
Jul 17 15:30:49   dgilmore: so, i will include the plugins in
libabiword... for normal fedora, i will include more plugins than the
olpc build
Jul 17 15:35:13   uwog: ok
Jul 17 15:35:24   dgilmore: thx
Jul 17 15:35:26   uwog: want me to make you a OLPC-3 branch?
Jul 17 15:35:32   dgilmore: please

Morgan
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Re: Network manager 0.7 for Joyride

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 16:50, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The functionality is actually part of NetworkManager 0.6 upstream, so
> they are not patches in the usual sense. The problem is that the
> functionality was not carried forward upstream to 0.7.
>
> Anyway, Sjoerd has apparently completed the work porting the mesh
> functionality from 0.6 to 0.7. No more attention is needed in that area.
>
> What we need now is for someone to port the sugar components to use the
> new NetworkManager D-Bus API. NM 0.7 introduces a new D-Bus API and no
> longer supports the old one, which is what we use in sugar.

... without breaking the existing use of 0.6, where that is available...
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Re: Official (draft) Trac Ticket Workflow

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 23:35, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greg and Michael discussed how we want to close tickets. Our conclusions
> and questions:
>
> * All resolved tickets should state that documentation was provided or
> that no documentation was needed.
>
>  - How should we represent this boolean choice?

It's not boolean necessarily: There is an initial state which is
neither. If one of your states is selected by default, it is lying
since no documentation has been provided but may be necessary.

It's not clear what you mean by documentation, so I can't comment on
how to represent it. Can you give a specific example?

> * Tickets in the 'next_action == finalize' state will be reviewed by the
> release team and resolved per the previous remark.
>
>  - Tickets can still be dropped from the workflow at any time by
> resolving them as 'worksforme', 'invalid', etc.
>
> * The emerging ticket workflow is officially described at
>
>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Trac_ticket_workflow
>
> We'll improve that documentation as quickly as we're able. Please cite
> it profusely (and comment inline as you desire. We'll move comments to
> the discussion page as we respond to them).

Further questions on the wiki page.

Regards
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Re: New joyride build 2172

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 05:40, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Build Announcer v2 wrote:
>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2172
>>
>> Changes in build 2172 from build: 2171
>>
>> Size delta: -4.85M
>
> Can anyone see why my public_rpms for gnome-python2 and
> gnome-python2-gnomevfs did not get included?
> Other packages from my public_rpms fell in place just fine (e.g.
> totem-pl-parser).
>
> The gnome-python stuff should knock libgnome and a load of other stuff
> out of the build.

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2172/devel_jffs2/build.log
shows gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-2.fc9 which is newer than your
package (gnome-python2-gnomevfs-2.22.1-1.olpc3.i386.rpm). Perhaps you
need to rev your release number?

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Re: Autosave in 8.2.0?

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:10, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I heard we may have implemented some interim saving feature since 656.
>>> Does anyone know anything about that?
>>
>> Not sure what that refers to. Tomeu might know.
>
> 656 was a while ago :)
>
> Marco has added a session manager to Sugar (in 8.2.0) that takes care
> of telling activities to save their work because the system is being
> shut down. Haven't verified if this is complete and working. Have you,
> Marco? If so, this would also take care of the case where kids shut
> down before closing all running activities first.
>
> What the field might have meant by no data loss is perhaps that their
> journal contents are being lost. Greg, can you verify if this is the
> case?

#6014 is our famous G1G1 field report. Should be fixed by the session
manager, but I haven't tested.

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Re: Network manager 0.7 for Joyride

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 00:32, Brian Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> It would be nice if we had network manager 0.7 in joyride.
>* It has a nicer API
>* Nobody is developing 0.6 anymore
>* 0.7 has new functionality and may have support for more networks
>
> This would likely require working with the...
>* Sugar presence service
>* Neighborhood view
>* Frame for the mesh device representation
>
> See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Network_manager_0.7 , and please
> indicate if you are interested in working towards this (or know
> someone who may be).

Sjoerd Simons at Collabora is looking at NM 0.7 for us.

Currently we have lots of XO-specific patches (for msh0 etc) in NM
0.6.5 which were not sent/accepted upstream. Due to significant NM
changes these patches cannot be applied to 0.7 so the work has to be
redone and hopefully improved such that it is upstream-friendly. I
can't seem to find a ticket for this.

Secondly, Presence Service needs to be updated to handle API changes
in NM: #6248

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Code name for 9.1.0

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 14:34, Richard A. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> i have to say, though, that one of the best decisions ubuntu
>> ever made was to have alphabetically ordered codenames.  i'm
>
> Heh.  I never noticed.  Why do you think the alphabetical ordering is so
> special?

It's easy to know the upgrade path: dapper -> edgy -> feisty -> gutsy
-> hardy -> intrepid -> j

It wasn't alphabetical from the start: The earlier releases were warty
(warthog), hoary (hedgehog) and breezy (badger).

With olpc-update, it's not critical to update from version x to
version x+1 - we can skip versions as we don't depend on a particular
package state. (e.g. You can upgrade from 650 to joyride without
having to upgrade to 703 first...) In the future that could become
significant though if we have system changes affecting datastore
format changes or something which might make support easier if
upgrading from a known version.

Morgan
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Re: Code name for 9.1.0

[Morgan Collett]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:56, Richard A. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greg Smith wrote:
>
>> Ideas so far. Please vote or propose a new one:
>> Freire
>> mango
>> Papert
>
> I'm +1 for mango. I think naming after fruits plays well with calling
> our user environment sugar.

Another +1 for mango.

In my experience, making code names too relevant to the project can
lead to confusion. Ubuntu code names are used in public more than the
release numbers. Maemo releases (for Nokia tablets) are also known by
their code names rather than release numbers. Therefore public
discussion will include them, before and after release - "Can you
upgrade to Papert? Can you upgrade from Papert to Piaget?" and more
confusingly, "Have you read the Papert book?" - and what would the
[[Papert]] wiki page be on? Or googling "Papert activities"...

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Re: Activity Backward Compatibility (was re: Re: joyride 2128 smoketest)

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 15:14, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> GS - Does anyone have the contact info for the developers of all the
> currently available activities? Can we document the changes they need to
> make in 8.2.0 and contact them? Let's also ask them what they think
> about us requiring they rewrite in each release.

I've been thinking about having a mailing list specifically for
activity authors. Many of them do not need all the info posted to
devel@lists.laptop.org or [EMAIL PROTECTED], and may appreciate a
specific list with lower "noise" (to them). The benefit to us would be
a greater chance of reaching all activity developers. (Those who speak
English, anyhow.)

It should probably be on lists.sugarlabs.org, since activities are
specific to Sugar.

Any comments?

> - Leaving aside how its done technically, I believe that Linux
> distributions are fully backward compatible. That is, you can go to the
> latest supported Distribution and leave your Firefox (or any
> application) on its older release and it will still work fine. Let me
> know if that is not correct. I think that is what we need to strive for,
> eventually.

Uh, no, sorry to burst your bubble. N... (besides, why would
you want to run your old version when you get fresh newness every +-6
months? :-)

Regards
Morgan
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Re: State of 8.2.0, July 12, 2008

[Morgan Collett]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 06:11, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Trac additions
>  - we want to add a 'review' option to the 'action needed' field.
>  - anything else?

I suggested to Joe for the Trac meeting that we have a 'needs info'
option there, for when the reporter has not provided enough
information and a developer cannot diagnose or reproduce the problem -
e.g. requesting logs from the reporter.

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olpc-updating from another XO

[Morgan Collett]

I'm trying to update an XO (with build 656) from another XO (currently
joyride 2133 or so).

(I have tried about 10 times to olpc-update this XO over the Internet
but sooner or later it always fails, and when I retry it starts over.
This is using up my pay-per-GB bandwidth very fast.)

Following the directions on
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Olpc-update#Update_Using_Another_Laptop I
set up the hints file. However I get the following when running
olpc-update -vv --hints hints.json:

bash-3.2# olpc-update -vv --hints hints.json
Updating to version hash a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04
Deleting old incomplete update 6b78ecd53912f989003bc2ee7989e01e
Making clean /versions/updates/a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04
Trying rsync update from
rsync://192.168.8.76/pristine/a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04
 - Fetching contents.
rsync: link_stat "/a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04/contents" (in
pristine) failed: No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at
main.c(1385) [receiver=2.6.9]
Update failed: Command '['rsync', '-z',
'rsync://192.168.8.76/pristine/a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04/contents',
'/versions/updates/a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04.contents']'
returned non-zero exit status 23
No more update methods to try.

Is the version of olpc-update on 656 perhaps too old? Anything else I can try?

Here's my hints.json:

["a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04","normal",[["rsync","rsync://192.168.8.76/pristine/a8cd0f3b4a6f9117ec3947c02f060d04"]]]

Regards
Morgan
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Re: Activity Backward Compatibility (was re: Re: joyride 2128 smoketest)

[Morgan Collett]

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 00:56, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> We should definitely have backward compatibility for activities!

In my opinion, there should be compatibility from one release to the
next. APIs should not break from release to release unless critically
necessary. If there is a new way of doing things which is better, the
old way should still work - but it should warn in the log files that a
deprecated API is being used.

We should announce API deprecations - and API breaks where necessary -
in advance of a new release (as well as release notes) so that
activity authors are well aware of what is happening. This is done for
Python releases, for example, giving people details on how to update
python code from one version to another.

Indefinite support of backwards compatibility certainly has been a
major cause of platforms deteriorating (I'm thinking of Windows here).

> That is, activities that used to work (maybe starting at 656) must
> continue to work. If a new release requires that all activity authors
> have to recode some of their work, that will be a major deterrent to
> working with us.

65x releases did not have Rainbow running, so activities could access
and write to places on the filesystem which are no longer possible.
For that reason we can only really focus on activities which already
run on Rainbow.

> Its also a deterrent to deployments upgrading, assuming they find out
> their activities are broken before they upgrade.
>
> I understand that we do not have backward compatibility in 8.2.0 as it
> currently stands.

My understanding is that we made no particular guarantees, and while
we did not intentionally break APIs, some things may have broken along
the way.

I think our development process should include some sort of
compatibility management - perhaps as I mentioned above with API
support between two consecutive releases - and this could be enforced
or monitored with some sort of test activity (or test suite) that uses
the various Sugar APIs and reports on failures.

> Can we bound the test problem by saying that all "well behaved"
> activities will continue to work?

Unfortunately I think our APIs are insufficiently documented (or have
been) so that even core activities are not guaranteed to be "well
behaved".

> If we can define "well behaved" and not test activities that meet that
> criteria it will save us a lot of test time.

I think a better criteria would be "responsive activity authors" who
make some kind of commitment to keep their activities up to date from
release to release. I don't think we should spend resources testing
arbitrary third party activities, but where we can maintain a
responsive developer community we can include them in the process.

> Any other suggestions on how to bound this test challenge appreciated!
>
> e.g. can we say that all activities not listed on this page:
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Releases/Sucrose/0.81.4 will
> work the same in 8.2.0 as they did in previous releases?

Not all activities were updated in Sucrose release 0.81.4 - some were
updated in previous Sucrose releases. The activities listed in
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Modules are ones where the maintainers
have agreed to use the Sucrose release cycle (and other conditions
listed in http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam#New_activities).
These are activities which the Sugar project lists as demo activities,
and may or may not coincide with OLPC's deployed activities (in the
long term, as other users of Sugar emerge) - but they are certainly
candidates for OLPC's use.

Thus I would say that activities *not* on that list are the ones that
are *not* guaranteed to work with 8.2.0, because the authors did not
step up and take an interest in the new release.

> In the future if some piece of core code will cause previously supported
> activities to no longer work, I hope we can discuss and accept or reject
> that in advance (sorry if I missed that debate on this round).

API breaks should be discussed during a development cycle as the need
for them emerges, hopefully as early as possible in the cycle so there
are no surprises.

> In the worst case we have to test as many activities as possible but its
> much better to ensure API changes are not breaking things from the OS level.
>
> On the other hand, newer activities can require a newer OS. That can be
> handled if we have good activity documentation on the download and
> activity pages.

Yes. You've been talking about running old activities on a new release
- I would include new versions of activities here which may require a
newer OS/release.

Perhaps we should change the activity service name (e.g.
org.laptop.Chat) when an activity is updated in such a way that it can
no longer run on old releases. Perhaps that should also be done when a
newer version of an activity can no longer collaborate with an older
version.

> Sounds like we have a big activity test challenge ahead for 8.2.0...
>

Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Morgan Collett]

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 13:06, Bobby Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2008/7/11 Ixo X oxI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> FYI,
>>   I believe there's also  'Xo-get'  which contains a very frequently
>> updated  list of 'released' activities and activity packs.
>>
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Xo-get
>
> yes I have used this, it is very good and in addition allows you to
> uninstall applications (from the command line).  do you know who is
> responsible for it?  how often are its updates?  is it automatic or
> does someone toll around devel listening for updates? :)

It has a repository: http://xo-get.olpc.at/repository/ - but the entry
for Chat is out of date so I don't know where it syncs from.

Morgan
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Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:35, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am 10.07.2008 um 10:44 schrieb Morgan Collett:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 21:31, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 09.07.2008 um 20:07 schrieb Sayamindu Dasgupta:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 23:11 +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The easiest way, perhaps, to run the bleeding edge version of
>>>>>> Sugar on
>>>>>> an XO is to run the latest joyride. Is there a similar way to run
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> latest activities on an XO ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I use:
>>>>> http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-activities.py
>>>>>
>>>>> see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert%27s_script
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.. for some activities
>>>> http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/sucrose-activities.py seem to provide
>>>> more recent stuff.
>>>
>>> Really? That would mean the latest Sugar release is not in Joyride,
>>> which would be a problem.
>>
>> Bert's joyride-activities script seems to pull from
>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/repos/joyride/, which is very out of
>> date. For example, it has Chat-37 as the latest, but Chat-42 has been
>> released.
>>
>> How do we get activity updates in there?
>
>
> By the normal Joyride procedure (put the .xo into your ~/public_rpms):
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Build_system#Instructions_for_Use

Ah, since the activities were removed from the build images I stopped
doing that. I'll do that again.

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Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 21:31, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Am 09.07.2008 um 20:07 schrieb Sayamindu Dasgupta:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 23:11 +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
 The easiest way, perhaps, to run the bleeding edge version of
 Sugar on
 an XO is to run the latest joyride. Is there a similar way to run
 the
 latest activities on an XO ?
>>>
>>> I use:
>>> http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-activities.py
>>>
>>> see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert%27s_script
>>>
>>
>> Hmm.. for some activities
>> http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/sucrose-activities.py seem to provide
>> more recent stuff.
>
> Really? That would mean the latest Sugar release is not in Joyride,
> which would be a problem.

Bert's joyride-activities script seems to pull from
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/repos/joyride/, which is very out of
date. For example, it has Chat-37 as the latest, but Chat-42 has been
released.

How do we get activity updates in there?

Morgan
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Re: joyride 2128 smoketest

[Morgan Collett]

2008/7/9 Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> With almost 400,000 deployed in the world, we need to have some good
> discussions on the backward compatibilty and upgradability of Activities.
>
> Some of the bugs Charlie is writing up from the QA first look at joyride may
> be answered by upgrading an activity to a newer one.
>
> So here are the questions we need to discuss:
>
> 1 - Is there anyway to ensure backward compatibility of activities (the
> 8.1.1 activities will work with 8.2)?  -- seems like a long shot to me.

My 2c worth here... There haven't been API breaks for activities. I've
had to do nothing to my activities to keep them working from 8.1.0 to
joyride current.

Chat-35 was in 656, and should still work on 708 or 212x. Chat-42
however will probably fail on older builds. So I'm concerned about the
reverse direction: That someone with 656 will try to install an
activity that only works with newer API added in newer releases...

We need a decent activity portal, as has been discussed in the past,
so people can install activities appropriate to the version/build they
are running. Right now, it's difficult to know whether a given
activity on the wiki is compatible with a given release, or obtain
other versions of it.

> 2 - For support purposes, do we need or want to say that activities will be
> backward compatible only across the year designator (8.1 activities will
> work with 8.2; but from 8.x to 9.x, the activities will need to be updated
> and probably retested and checked for new translations).

I think we need a way to associate activities with releases, either by
some sort of activity repository that "Bert's script" can access, or
some sort of list of versions... IMO the activities should always be
tested at least by the activity author (and core activities tested by
QA) and should always be updated for new translations.

> 3 - Since I think it is going to be really hard to do either 1 or 2 above,
> then we have to have a strategy for easy activity upgrades. We've talked
> about this for a long time... do we have a proposal that we can really
> implement as part of the 8.2 release?

Regards,
Morgan
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Re: Incidental notes.

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:12, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 2:55 AM, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 08:40:36PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>>> * updates to the puritan UI and the f9 compilation which make combine to
>>>   deliver a bootable image. (As of this instant, you'll need to start X
>>>   manually with olpc-dm)
>>
>> In the build I created, NM did not start automatically. I'm not sure
>> whether this was because I entered the wrong runlevel by default or
>> because of some other configuration error. At any rate, the failure of
>> NM to start caused the PS to fail when it checked the return code of
>> 'route -n' (I assume because no interfaces were configured) which in
>> turn killed Sugar. Sigh.
>
> Not sure if PS can be of much use without NM (perhaps yes?), but sugar
> (and activities) should keep running even without PS. If there isn't a
> ticket yet, we should have one created.

A Sugar ticket regarding PS: #7450 - and a PS ticket regarding
interfaces: #7451.

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Re: Freezing features this week.

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 02:13, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We're FREEZING OUR FEATURE-SET THIS WEEK, which means that features targeted 
> at
> the 8.2.0 release should be IN A JOYRIDE BUILD BY THIS SUNDAY, JULY 6TH. If 
> the
> outlines of your feature aren't
>
>  a) in Joyride by the end of the week, [1]
>  b) documented in a release contract in [2]
>
>http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/18
>
> then we'll probably defer you if you ask us to include your work in 8.2.0 at
> any later date. If your work isn't going to be ready to test by Sunday, then
> please explain your situation on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

My feature in #6298 for Sugar to accept 1-1 XMPP chats and show an
invitation which launches Chat doesn't yet have a release contract.
The functionality is in Joyride with Sucrose 0.81.3, except for
Chat-41.xo which is of course not included in the builds.

It's not clear whether your a) and b) are both required by Sunday, so
I have created a ticket #7428 in release-contract similar to the
others. If it is not correct, feel free to close it and replace with a
better one.

Morgan
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Re: koji dependency problem building telepathy-gabble

[Morgan Collett]

2008/7/4 Dennis Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Friday 04 July 2008, Morgan Collett wrote:
>> Dennis,
>>
>> I couldn't build telepathy-gabble 0.7.6 in OLPC-3 because it depends
>> on telepathy-glib >= 0.7.8:
>> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=694418&name=root.log
>>
>> Guillaume built the latest telepathy-glib in F-9:
>> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=54696
>>
>> However I still can't build telepathy-gabble - same problem. Do you
>> need to tag telepathy-glib into dist-olpc3 or something?
> Yes,  its in dist-f9-updates-candidate  we only pull in automatically released
> updates.  ive tagged it in for us so you can build against it now.

Thanks Dennis!
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koji dependency problem building telepathy-gabble

[Morgan Collett]

Dennis,

I couldn't build telepathy-gabble 0.7.6 in OLPC-3 because it depends
on telepathy-glib >= 0.7.8:
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=694418&name=root.log

Guillaume built the latest telepathy-glib in F-9:
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=54696

However I still can't build telepathy-gabble - same problem. Do you
need to tag telepathy-glib into dist-olpc3 or something?

Thanks
Morgan
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Re: Release 8.2.0 -- pls add critical features

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 19:30, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greg Smith wrote:
>> I'm also not aware of any feasible design proposal which might address
>> your request. You need a precedent or engineering level suggestion to
>> move this forward. Is this possible in Firefox at all?
>>
>> I know that IE tries to open certain types of documents within the
>> browser. It ties in a set of editing capabilities without exiting the
>> browser, but its not the same as opening the document in the
>> application. I don't know the technology behind it (maybe Mime Types?).
>> If that is what you are looking for it will require a lot of work which
>> I believe needs to come from Firefox.
>
> This part is actually quite easy. We don't use firefox, but we use the
> same engine, embedded into a sugar app. It's easy for the parent
> application to intercept URL requests before the engine goes off and
> processes them, so it's easy to invent a URL scheme such as activity://pippy
>
> The hard part is dealing with Rainbow, because Browse runs under the
> constraints of rainbow which probably prevents us from making one
> activity directly launch another in any sane way.

What we have now is show_object_in_journal, which activities can use
to ask Rainbow to show a journal object. The activity creates a
journal object, and then calls that resulting in Journal displaying
that object. You can then resume / instantiate it.

This is how Chat opens URLs in Browse. I imagine that it could be used
to create a journal object corresponding to the activity type you want
to open. However, where a specific mime type can be opened with
multiple activities, you could choose to resume any one of them. So
this doesn't guarantee a specific activity will be launched.

Regards
Morgan
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