On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 09:35:23AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> mod_auth_shadow - Apache authentication via /etc/shadow
Is there anything this can do that mod_auth_pam can't do better?
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Good news for photographers:
<http://www.rawtherapee.com/?mitem=1&artid=46>
Anyone else interested in working on packaging this?
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On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 06:36:47PM +0100, Dan Horák wrote:
> > Anyone else interested in working on packaging this?
> Can it be build and used without the rawzor binary blobs?
No. That's "Needs Work".
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On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:59:32PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 06:36:47PM +0100, Dan Horák wrote:
> > > Anyone else interested in working on packaging this?
> > Can it be build and used without the rawzor binary blobs?
> No. That's "N
but if
> somebody else needs a reviewer or co-maintainer, I'm certainly up for it.
> [1]
> http://www.rawtherapee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1701&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
Interesting. Builds fine for me on Rawhide, x86_64.
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On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 02:51:15PM +0100, Maxim Burgerhout wrote:
> - I noticed Debian puts lspci in /usr/bin. I'm curious about the
> reason lspci is to remain in a sbin directory if it's being moved
> anyway.
+1, please.
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On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 03:40:52PM +0100, jan.kle...@brandforge.sk wrote:
> I'm working on packaging already.
How's it going? Any help needed?
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> I'm totally in favor of it. It is something I always do anyway in my init
> config.
Me too. A.k.a. "one less patch BU Linux would need to carry."
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sonable to require for a forgotten
root password.
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7;s prompts "globally" isn't a good idea.
Plus this fires up git, grep, and python every time you hit enter at the
command line. That seems... not the best.
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the obsolete list to be specified with versions?
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e that discussed, ad nauseum.
Ok, cool. I'll stay out of it then. :)
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On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:10:25PM +0800, Chen Lei wrote:
> I found that systemd-units depends on pkgconfig, is this dependency
> really needed for minimum systemd?
Please file things like this in bugzilla so they don't get lost in the chaos
of this discussion list.
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delay." and then to exit *without*
doing anything. But being able to shut a system down in the future -- or at
least with a little warning to users -- is useful and important.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=624149
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On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 04:36:40PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=624149
Thanks, Lennart, for working on this promptly.
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you
> root" to "Running code as X gives you root the moment someone types in a
> root password, even if they're on a different terminal". I accept that
This sounds like yet another good argument for removing the need to ever
type a root password.
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rn Linux I recognize that there's better ways
of doing it. But I was surprised when I updated this system to latest
rawhide and rebooted, because it came up with that filesystem mounted.
Is this expected behavior?
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be "how can we make this
improvement with minimal disruption?".
So, my question is serious. If we go ahead with systemd for F14, will we be
hit with an onslaught of confusion, trouble, and change? That would be good
for testing systemd, but *not awesome* for the distribution or for its
u
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:40:35PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> So, my question is serious. If we go ahead with systemd for F14, will we be
> hit with an onslaught of confusion, trouble, and change? That would be good
> for testing systemd, but *not awesome* for the distribution o
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:40:35PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Is it helpful at this point if I file a bug for systemd's noauto behavior?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=626502
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rd with no
further restrictions, you're right. But it opens the doors to other
possibilities, like requiring kerberos or key- or cert-based authentication
for login. I know it's not feasible for most end-user desktops, but here we
use two-factor authentication tokens for administrative
;s
> definitely not a good metric, but I do believe if that even if the
> number increases to a healthy level comparable with other core packages
> we'd still be fine.
> So, breath deeply, and let's all be jolly!
I'm concerned there aren't enough eyeballs y
stemd in by default. Or if not at this
point, as feedback from the alpha release starts coming in.
I understand your desire to get your code out there in the real world. But
Fedora really can't afford to have a marketing-disaster release right now.
Because this is a far-reaching change to
rm.
I think it's one of those cases where if you don't know what it means, you
probably don't care.
I mean, if you're outside of Massachusetts, why are you interested in the
Teachers' Association?
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pt to quantify
> what would need to be tested and verified. This document focuses on
> backwards compatibility. THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY VERBOSE. Comments, changes,
> etc. welcome.
Thanks Bill. This looks very helpful. I'll look it over tomorrow.
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; not. Preferably, it should be something that can be easily configured
> to smarthost and use SMTP AUTH. I would use sendmail for that, but
> that's just me (I understand many don't want sendmail and I have no
> problem with that).
+1
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urpose
of the comps change, since it will get pulled in by something important at
some point. Rsyslog, for example, can send output via e-mail.
Having a very simple mail-queue-and-relay program as an alternative to
sendmail seems like a better choice than just ditching it.
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S
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:00:55AM -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> I can't remember interactive boot ever working.
It does in RHEL 5. It will need to be working for RHEL 7.
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sn't necessarily Lennart's job. But someone needs to do it,
and if it's there sooner rather than later, it'll be a better document and
issues with design and intent can be addressed.
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ut causing
> Beta to slip. Or FESCo could decide that systemd is worth slipping for
> and thus enact a slip until systemd can pass the "do or die" test set.
>
> Either way, clearly mark the goals, let Lennart shoot for them.
FTR, this sounds perfect to me. I am not oppose
up some sort of desktop notification.
+1. C'mon, prolific desktop code guys. :)
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ase notes, and
then eventually it can go away.
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rong for a 2 month old project.
In fact, I think we need some flexibility to change things which turn out to
be sub-optimal once they're out in the real world. Freezing these decisions
too soon is one of the strong arguments for waiting until F15.
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specified, and shall return
> similar errors.
Likewise, commands like apache's 'apachectl graceful' need to continue
working, even if upstart does something special to start those services. (I
don't know that they wouldn't; it just should go on the list.)
I would like to see tab-completion for systemctl working before the final
release. That's a request, though, not a demand.
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#x27;service status will' produce a concise
human-understandable output and the apppropriate return code
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s the meaning better.)
Maybe good documentation is the answer here, but it's definitely a quirk of
the system. Is there some way in which "complete working runlevel" targets
are distinguished from other ones which I am missing?
Thanks!
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be changed. I am saying,
however, that it's important to get the service command working with
systemctl so that people can use that instead.
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7;ll give the benefit of the doubt to you as the QA guy. So in
that case, the requirement could simply be that at the time of the beta,
they do basically the same things, or in cases where they do different
things, it is 1) intentional *and* 2) documented.
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ght create the impression it didn't.
As long as you stay involved in the discussion, which, again, I appreciate,
we have a chance of things going well. But from the point of view of someone
actively testing systemd, it's looking pretty rocky. You can ignore that if
you want, but *Fedora* can&#
s.
Yes. It's worth mentioning that the only reason I got involved with testing
systemd is because I read the initial post and thought it seemed interesting
and cool. In other words, I *have* opted in.
And you're getting testing, and I'm finding bugs.
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id=135592
and related:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=143437
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hat doesn't matter very much.
Really! It is the case.
I'm starting to feel a bit like Cassandra here.
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t have the luxury of "pushing" things on the user
community and hoping they stay around while we fix it up.
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ery place you can.
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), always follow the /etc/inittab first. If
if it makes sense, perhaps systemd should change the default.target to
match.
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rst, too?
Cute.
The answer is: if AUTOEXEC.BAT had been historically checked as part of our
boot process, then yes, by all means.
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an by "actually"? If you try it, you will see that both Fedora
13 and RHEL 5 return 'S'.
> > I would like to see tab-completion for systemctl working before the final
> > release. That's a request, though, not a demand.
> Happy to take patches!
I can wor
7;t ship it broken.
If it's possible to fix some now-exposed underlying issue by backing out of
systemd, and release engineering / FESCO deterimines that that's the best
fix, it doesn't mean systemd is a failure. It means that Fedora wasn't ready
for it yet.
Obviously if the item
;t,
> file a bug.
What will it do? What will be running? How can I know? Do I really have to
generate the dot graph and look at that?
Here's how I tell what will happen under sysvinit or upstart:
/sbin/chkconfig | grep 3:on
and I get a nice, no-nonsense list. Can I get that with systemd?
htforward, and avoids the
implication that the service was intentionally taken down for maintenance
(my first reaction both here and on Solaris).
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gt; Obviously if the item in question fails both with systemd and upstart,
> it's a different sort of blocker.
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nning, and more than just services that are started on
> boot-up, and the system state
> /me adds that to his todo list.
That would be awesome. Thanks. Again, this stuff should be front-and-center.
On the todo list: it should be able to show you the change from the current
state, and t
w terminology to learn. With "broken" when a
service is broken, it's self-explanatory. "Needs maintenance" would also
work, but it's too long.
So: I am not suggesting these things to harass you, or even because I want
you to make me happy. (In fact, I'm *already* h
l release, that would be awesome and help
people really like systemd. If it can't be, document clearly that it's
planned.
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confidence in making a decision about it. I'd rather concentrate on
> that constructive effort than epidemiologically questionable
> generalizations.
Fair enough. I'll back off of those. It's a discussion for a different list,
anyway.
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even if
> that's a kinda broken thing to do. Since runlevels 3 and 5 are the ones
> anaconda writes this should be the safest bet.
For the record, I agree that those scripts are probably horrible old
kludges. It's just nice when we can not break those. So, again, thanks for
reponsive
there's a compelling use case for NetworkManager on machines that don't
move around?
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On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 07:06:06PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> I don't think this is an important change, in the sense that I've noted
> others as important. But, like changing "isolate" to "switch-to", it
> improves the user experience. With terms like
can be made to bring up interfaces and then get out of the
way when there's nothing but static interfaces defined, awesome. Perhaps
this is where the conversation is relevant to the larger thread: systemd
could take care of that. It could even reactivate the service if the
situation ch
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:08:13AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > The "compelling use case" is that it doesn't make sense to maintain 2
> > pieces
> > of core infrastructure code doing the same thing, especially when one's
> > functionality is a sub
ug number?
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default? If so, I think we can
afford to ship poor little ed.
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On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:05:01PM +0200, Jan Safranek wrote:
> > bug number?
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=626794
thanks.
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re of systemctl:
<https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=627277>
At a minimum, this should be explained in a comment in a "dummy" inittab
file. But I'm still holding out hope for implementation of
backwards-compatibility for initdefault:
<https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?
md. We should be
clear on what's intented to work now (each user session in a unique cgroup)
and insure that that's working, document (loosely) plans for the future, and
define how systemd's use of cgroups should interact with other tools (like
libcgroup) for this release and for the
iscussed here:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-August/141713.html
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> FYI, this is done in git, will be built today/tomorrow.
I saw -- thanks, and looking forward to trying it.
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systemd uses pam_systemd for users and creates cgroups
automatically for services.
This overlap doesn't seem good for the distribution.
Dan, *could* systemd as it stands provide what you need for sandboxes?
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14.
Thanks!
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On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 09:59:59AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Dan, *could* systemd as it stands provide what you need for sandboxes?
Having looked a bit more at libcgroup, let me put this question in an
entirely different way, because I understand better what's going on. So:
Dan, do
to the stable tree.
Really? I haven't been paying enough attention, I guess. Why don't inherited
packages hit rawhide when they get to the testing tree? Seems like that'd
help a lot with the testing!
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re's the chance that things could go into updates-testing that never
> get released. We could revisit this policy, though.
Trade-offs: rawhide more likely to get broken vs. packages more likely to
get looked at in testing (I suppose that's obvious, but, y'know, for th
nt
Would it be possible to have systemd either use libcgroup to mount these
directories, or to parse the libcgroup config file to determine where to put
the mounts?
> I hope this clears things up a little. The summary:
> There's not systemd vs. libcgroup; more a systemd + libcgroup
Fedora's existence --
> no one expects it to "just work".
Useful information is being generated and then lost. That shouldn't happen.
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y have an API for mounting things.
Okay, yeah, I was confused there between the library and the included tools.
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d
r it to
> want to fix it?
Why not fix it eventually?
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ill better than the current state.
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ould go into rawhide as well. It's certainly a discussion we could have.
I'm willing to sacrifice my stable rawhide desktop system in the name of
getting Fedora more testing. Where should this discussion be had?
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On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 11:17:37AM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> FESCo. rel-eng will implement it (it's a one-line koji command), but the
> decision isn't really rel-eng's to make unilaterally.
> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/452
Ahsome.
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On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 11:47:14AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > OK, I just updated to v8-3 and have the latest initscripts, too. I tried
> > to shut down twice (I invoked sudo systemctl daemon-reexec before the
> > second time), and I still cannot power down by clickin
power off
> button. The screen goes black, but the mouse pointer remains on the black
> screen and is movable, but nothing further occurs. I have to go to a
> different virtual terminal, log in as root, and run systemctl isolate
> poweroff.target. Then, it powers off.
What do the logs say
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 09:10:35AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> I'll copy this to the ticket as well, but there are some non-trivial
> roadblocks to this.
Thanks for putting thought into it. I don't think it's at all urgent, but it
my exposure to packages which need testing
he
/var/log/messages file.
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in order to shut down from text mode?
Please file a bug.
> Where are the logs for systemd? In /var/log/messages, maybe?
Yep.
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e stuff, and we worked
> well with upstreams. We we're easy to configure, easy to update, easy to
> install whether a single system or 400 systems in a lab. We we're easy to
> administrate in the same scenarios.
This sounds like an excellent definition for what Fedora should
n update or to contribute a
> fix.
There you go! That's what we have in Rawhide.
Maybe the problem here is that we need to market Rawhide better to Fedora
developers.
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on the Fedora "target audience"
includes: "familiar with computers, but is not necessarily a hacker or
developer".
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s here on this. As it's currently
working, things aren't pushed to Rawhide after they've been through F14
testing.
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onger the case. See:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_Frozen_Rawhide_Proposal
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fox_Rebranding:Worksheet#Start_page
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hen the next Fedora release tree
is branched in less than six months, the new features automatically become
widely available.
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s -- it has to be on potential
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ge,
> and how it would benefit the end-user. "
>
> I think we could manage such a rationale.
It's worth a shot. The results would be instructive either way.
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;t be ok after 2-3 weeks in updates-testing
> > I hope you are kidding.
> nope, I'm 100 % serious
Unfortunately, then: this does not currently match reality.
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an to offend. And I also don't think there's any new information.
The basic fact of current reality is that the testing repositories do not
get enough exposure or formal testing to demonstrate that an update is okay.
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x27;t want to think in terms of which is on top of the other.
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pposite.
> 2) the only aspect of that that would be unique is the commitment to
> upstream -- something which will be appreciated by few
I don't think that's fair at all. Fedora is unique in a lot of ways, and a
waterfall of updates isn't essential to that uniqueness.
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ke
Fedora spins. Another example: from one point of view, RPM vs. dpkg is
negligible, but there are technical features which make it nicer for some
purposes (like a derived distribution). My point isn't to argue about the
relative virtues of different technology, but that key points of the
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