On Wed, May 08, 2013 at 10:00:50AM +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 12:03:39AM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote:
Anaconda has a pretty special place in this project. It is the
uber-administrator of every new Fedora install. We would do better
as a community to hash out major
On 9 May 2013 05:44, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote:
On 2013-05-09 00:02 (GMT-0400) Adam Williamson composed:
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 22:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-05-08 10:09 (GMT+0200) Pierre-Yves Chibon composed:
you are replying to a 4 days old email on a thread
Once upon a time, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net said:
So everyone who cannot maintain currency has to catch up 100% prior to
writing a response coming to mind while reading, lest he be publicly
chastised by temporal relevance police?
Well, yes. That is common courtesy in any form of
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 16:42 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
If they do decide to keep the change, you could escalate it to FESCo.
However, (speaking only for myself here) I would be VERY reluctant to
override maintainers on their packages on something that is a design
decision/judgement call. Where
On 2013-05-09 08:00 (GMT-0500) Chris Adams composed:
Felix Miata composed:
So everyone who cannot maintain currency has to catch up 100% prior to
writing a response coming to mind while reading, lest he be publicly
chastised by temporal relevance police?
Well, yes. That is common
From: Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 22:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-05-08 10:09 (GMT+0200) Pierre-Yves Chibon composed:
you are replying to a 4 days old email on a thread that is no
longer active?
A: The thread was started on a Friday night.
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 07:04 +0200, Stef Walter wrote:
On 06.05.2013 21:51, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 21:37 +0200, Stef Walter wrote:
On 06.05.2013 18:38, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:43 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2013 10:48 AM, Miloslav
On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 09:51:22AM -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
On 05/04/2013 12:30 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 11:24:01PM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote:
Matthew, with all due respect the tone of the bug doesn't make me think
that there is a lot of interest in discussion
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 12:03:39AM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote:
Anaconda has a pretty special place in this project. It is the
uber-administrator of every new Fedora install. We would do better
as a community to hash out major changes before they're made, and
try to reach some agreement before
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 09:03:02PM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Let's be realistic here. The precedence they have recently set is they
make decisions and if you don't like it too bad.
Even if that is true, what is your point?
--
Regards,
Olav
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:10 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 09:03:02PM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Let's be realistic here. The precedence they have recently set is they
make decisions and if you don't like it too bad.
Even if that is true, what is your point?
That you are
On Wednesday, May 8, 2013, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:10 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 09:03:02PM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Let's be realistic here. The precedence they have recently set is they
make decisions and if you don't like it too bad.
On Wed, 08 May 2013 10:09:13 +0200
Pierre-Yves Chibon pin...@pingoured.fr wrote:
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:10 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 09:03:02PM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Let's be realistic here. The precedence they have recently set is they
make decisions and
On 2013-05-08 10:09 (GMT+0200) Pierre-Yves Chibon composed:
you are replying to a 4 days old email on a thread that is no
longer active?
A: The thread was started on a Friday night.
B: Some people don't get to read mail every day, or more than a few or less
times a week.
A + B = perfectly
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 19:59 -0600, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
FOUR DAYS is no longer active for you? Seriously?
You want to STFU those who disagree _this hard_?
Pete,
There is no constructive discussion going on here any more. 4 days is
certainly enough time for a mailing list thread to go inactive.
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 22:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-05-08 10:09 (GMT+0200) Pierre-Yves Chibon composed:
you are replying to a 4 days old email on a thread that is no
longer active?
A: The thread was started on a Friday night.
B: Some people don't get to read mail every day,
On 2013-05-09 00:02 (GMT-0400) Adam Williamson composed:
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 22:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-05-08 10:09 (GMT+0200) Pierre-Yves Chibon composed:
you are replying to a 4 days old email on a thread that is no
longer active?
A: The thread was started on a
On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 00:44 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-05-09 00:02 (GMT-0400) Adam Williamson composed:
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 22:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-05-08 10:09 (GMT+0200) Pierre-Yves Chibon composed:
you are replying to a 4 days old email on a thread that is
On 06.05.2013 23:42, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 13:04 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through the
initial steps of the install I started to setup my root password.
To my surprise my password was shown in plain text instead
On 06.05.2013 21:51, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 21:37 +0200, Stef Walter wrote:
On 06.05.2013 18:38, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:43 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2013 10:48 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram
On 05/04/2013 06:22 PM, Dan Mashal wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote:
I can add to that that I have seen more than once people setting a
password which was not the one they believed due to :
- keyboard layout ( ie, qwerty vs azerty in France )
- small
On 05/03/2013 04:08 PM, Reartes Guillermo wrote:
I think that the previous behaviour was better. (covering the password
with bullets).
what if the password IS 12 bullet characters :)
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
what if the password IS 12 bullet characters :)
Three UI elements:
* two password fields that do not echo the password by default or covers it
with bullets or asterisks.
* one check-box that shows the password if the user wishes so.
It is the most flexible scheme. If one doubts the typed
On 05/03/2013 10:59 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:36:51PM -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
I was referring to the decision to
show the password in full when the user is typing it.
Many UI decisions are unprecedented. That doesn't justify reopening bugs
that the maintainer
Will and Mairin had some good links talking about the merits of doing
this and how hiding passwords doesn't even do all that much to help (a
determined person can always just watch your keyboard).
This argument isn't very solid. I mean someone can just break your
window to get in your house,
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Przemek Klosowski
przemek.klosow...@nist.gov wrote:
Another example of such important change that recently appeared without
recourse and much discussion is the lock screen: previously, the password
unlock widget had focus so one could start typing the password,
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Hash: SHA1
On 05/06/2013 09:27 AM, Josh Bressers wrote:
Will and Mairin had some good links talking about the merits of
doing this and how hiding passwords doesn't even do all that much
to help (a determined person can always just watch your
keyboard).
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 08:27:14AM -0500, Josh Bressers wrote:
A checkbox is probably the right way to handle this. While yes it's
slightly more work, it does two very important things. It puts the
user in control, and it is secure by default.
On 05/04/2013 12:30 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 11:24:01PM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote:
Matthew, with all due respect the tone of the bug doesn't make me think
that there is a lot of interest in discussion from the developers.
Reopening bugs is generally a good way of
On 05/04/2013 05:37 AM, Michael Scherer wrote:
Or I could also speak of the small non standard keyboard such as macbook
one where ~ or | are not printed and where using the wrong keyboard
could result in wrong characters if you are unaware of the problem.
Reminds me of the famous case when
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/04/2013 12:24 AM, Eric Sandeen wrote:
On the other hand, if it's the right thing to do, then it needs to be
done for GUI password change dialogs and the passwd command should be
updated as well, for consistency,
On 05.05.2013 10:54, drago01 wrote:
Seriously this changes just papers over another bug we suck at
keyboard layout selection ... fixing it by showing the password
like that is just wrong.
Thank you for writing this here! Password entry box is not a place for
testing keyboard layout. Maybe
On 05/06/2013 10:48 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/04/2013 12:24 AM, Eric Sandeen wrote:
On the other hand, if it's the right thing to do, then it
needs to be done for GUI password change dialogs and the
passwd
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:43 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2013 10:48 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/04/2013 12:24 AM, Eric Sandeen wrote:
On the other hand, if it's the right thing to do,
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 00:26 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
On 05/03/2013 03:08 PM, Reartes Guillermo wrote:
I think that the previous behaviour was better. (covering the password
with bullets).
At least the phones only show one character at a time, not the whole
password.
GTK
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 09:21 -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
On 05/03/2013 10:59 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:36:51PM -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
I was referring to the decision to
show the password in full when the user is typing it.
Many UI decisions are
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 12:48 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 00:26 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
On 05/03/2013 03:08 PM, Reartes Guillermo wrote:
I think that the previous behaviour was better. (covering the password
with bullets).
At least the phones only
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:01 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 12:48 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 00:26 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
On 05/03/2013 03:08 PM, Reartes Guillermo wrote:
I think that the previous behaviour was better. (covering the
On 06.05.2013 18:38, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:43 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2013 10:48 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/04/2013 12:24 AM, Eric Sandeen wrote:
On the other hand, if
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 21:37 +0200, Stef Walter wrote:
On 06.05.2013 18:38, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 11:43 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2013 10:48 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/04/2013 12:24
On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 13:04 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through the
initial steps of the install I started to setup my root password.
To my surprise my password was shown in plain text instead of bullets.
For the record:
commit
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
For the record:
commit da565b769979a031f318dbc727b9888e4f1fb37c
Author: Chris Lumens clum...@redhat.com
Date: Mon May 6 17:18:30 2013 -0400
Revert Add signal handlers for controlling password entry
visibility.
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Eric H. Christensen
spa...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 08:27:14AM -0500, Josh Bressers wrote:
A checkbox is probably the right way to handle this. While yes it's
slightly more work, it does
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Bill Peck bp...@redhat.com wrote:
On 05/04/2013 06:22 PM, Dan Mashal wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote:
I can add to that that I have seen more than once people setting a
password which was not the one they believed due
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 15:22 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hidden by default and showing it on demand is likely to still be a
hindrance to people who may not know they type their password wrong
( because I think most assume that it will work fine, we are not to
a
point where people assume by
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 13:20 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
That's it. So far as I can see, that's the sole reference to any actual
identifiable study. And again, so far as I can see, the entire 2009
debate spiraled out
Le Sam 4 mai 2013 21:52, Adam Williamson a écrit :
I think it's generally
accepted that this is a case of a usability versus security trade-off,
and the questions are a) exactly how much security does masking provide
and b) once we have agreed on the terms (exactly how much more usable
are
Le Dim 5 mai 2013 00:22, Dan Mashal a écrit :
I think people that have Macs have learned how to use their slightly
different keybaords by now.
OTOH there are slight variations between the windows, mac and linux
layouts for the same locale (due to the fact that getting fixes in xkb is
way
On 05/05/13 08:40 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 15:22 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hidden by default and showing it on demand is likely to still be a
hindrance to people who may not know they type their password wrong
( because I think most assume that it will work fine, we
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:28 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 15:58 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
If they do decide to keep the change, you could escalate it to FESCo.
However, (speaking only for myself here) I would be VERY reluctant to
override maintainers
On 05/04/2013 06:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/05/04/1248242/fedora-19-to-stop-masking-passwords
Well, that escalated quickly.
And in one of the replies:
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3716785cid=43628711
I like the way Windows 8 addressed this
On Sun, 2013-05-05 at 14:43 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Excuse my cynicism here but this would also require some change to the
QA process itself and what are blockers and what are not and the nice
to have process which should be renamed we won't hold our breath.
I don't really see any special
On Sun, 2013-05-05 at 15:50 +0200, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
On 05/04/2013 06:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/05/04/1248242/fedora-19-to-stop-masking-passwords
Well, that escalated quickly.
And in one of the replies:
On May 5, 2013, at 1:40 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon pin...@pingoured.fr wrote:
So if you disagree please provide *reasonable*
arguments.
Those who disagree have already done this ad nauseum. The summary:
The Neilsen-Norman article cited is an editorial piece. It is out of scope, out
of context,
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through the
initial steps of the install I started to setup my root password.
To my surprise my password was shown in plain text instead of bullets.
The obvious workaround is to use
On Sun, 2013-05-05 at 14:07 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through
the
initial steps of the install I started to setup my root
password.
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
[snip]
Look, please, by all means, calmly discuss the merits of the decision.
Just don't bring into question the motivations of its introduction
unless you have a damn strong factual basis for doing so.
I maintain an
Le dimanche 05 mai 2013 à 11:18 -0600, Chris Murphy a écrit :
On May 5, 2013, at 1:40 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon pin...@pingoured.fr wrote:
So if you disagree please provide *reasonable*
arguments.
Those who disagree have already done this ad nauseum.
The summary:
The Neilsen-Norman
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 11:06 AM, T.C. Hollingsworth
tchollingswo...@gmail.com wrote:
More to the point, the vast majority of the other software *in Fedora*
that accepts passwords for any reason hides the passwords as
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sun, 2013-05-05 at 14:07 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through
the
initial steps of the
On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 00:02 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
Look, please, by all means, calmly discuss the merits of the decision.
Just don't bring into question the motivations of its introduction
unless you have a damn strong factual basis for doing so.
I believe I do have a damn strong
On Friday 03 May 2013 22:22:47 Bruno Wolff III wrote:
It's not like the people entering the password don't know it is visible.
I for one, will finish typing the password *way before* realizing it's visible:
* Touch typing is fast
* With passwords it's even faster:
- Because it's very
On 04.05.2013 07:26, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
On 05/03/2013 03:08 PM, Reartes Guillermo wrote:
I think that the previous behaviour was better. (covering the password
with bullets).
At least the phones only show one character at a time, not the whole
password.
GTK shows everything or
On Saturday 04 May 2013 04:58:13 Matthew Garrett wrote:
No, this isn't the most appropriate mailing list for the discussion -
anaconda-devel-list is a better choice if you want to interact with the
people who actually work on that code.
What separate a Linux distro from a random batch of
Le vendredi 03 mai 2013 à 21:41 -0700, Dan Mashal a écrit :
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
If you want to change a decision, it helps if you're discussing it in a
forum that's read by the people who made that decision.
Anaconda developers don't
H
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Stef Walter st...@redhat.com wrote:
There's already this exact phoneish password hint capability in GTK+
with the 'gtk-entry-password-hint-timeout' setting. Turn it on in
$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/gtk-3.0/settings.ini, or use
gtk_settings_set_string_property()
Hi
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
This sounds pretty neat but I am unable to get this to work. I have
tried gtk-entry-password-hint-timeout=600 and without the quotes as well.
Never mind. For anyone else looking, just use the format in
/etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
Le vendredi 03 mai 2013 à 23:24 -0500, Eric Sandeen a écrit :
What is the downside to defaulting to a hidden PW, with an opt-in mechanism to
display the password as it's typed? The downsides of defaulting to cleartext
have
been noted, and to me are quite self-explanatory.
First, we need to
Hi
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Michael Scherer wrote:
and I think that even Bruce Schneier have gave his opinion in favor of
the proposal :
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/the_problem_wit_2.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/the_pros_and_co.html
Not
Michael Scherer wrote:
So what about hiding on demand, and having it visible by default ? This
way, people who prefer to have it hidden will be happy, and we are still
friendly to non technical users.
That might be acceptable but only if there were a big, eye-catching
warning that users would
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 10:37:04AM +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
What separate a Linux distro from a random batch of software is *policy*
and what happened here is a radical policy change without any *prior*
discussion.
What happened here was a change in the UI of a single (albeit important)
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:53:35PM -0600, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
On Sat, 4 May 2013 05:32:18 +0100
Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
If you want to change a decision, it helps if you're discussing it in a
forum that's read by the people who made that decision.
This is a perfectly
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 09:41:39PM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
If you want to change a decision, it helps if you're discussing it in a
forum that's read by the people who made that decision.
Anaconda developers don't
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 05:51:02AM -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Michael Scherer wrote:
and I think that even Bruce Schneier have gave his opinion in favor of
the proposal :
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/the_problem_wit_2.html
Richard W.M. Jones rjones at redhat.com writes:
To be honest it would be a lot more convincing if someone had done a
study and published the results of it, rather than just linking to
opinions. I was rather hopeful that Neilsen-Norman would have done a
study, but they don't publish their
On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 13:04 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through the
initial steps of the install I started to setup my root password.
To my surprise my password was shown in plain text instead of bullets.
I believe that this is a
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 04:58 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 08:52:25PM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
And if the maintainers feel more than justified in closing it again?
Bugzilla isn't a discussion
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 09:42:22AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 04:58 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
No, this isn't the most appropriate mailing list for the discussion -
anaconda-devel-list is a better choice if you want to interact with the
people who actually work
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
The vast majority of other software that accepts
passwords for any reason hides the passwords as they are typed, so the
general expectation is that passwords are not displayed on the screen.
More to the point, the vast
On 05/04/2013 02:29 AM, Stef Walter wrote:
There's already this exact phoneish password hint capability in GTK+
with the 'gtk-entry-password-hint-timeout' setting. Turn it on in
$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/gtk-3.0/settings.ini, or use
gtk_settings_set_string_property()
I forgot about that setting. It
Another opinion.
It is possible to study such things, and even give caveats and error
bounds to show uncertainty.
Rich.
--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Fedora Windows cross-compiler. Compile Windows programs, test, and
build Windows installers.
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 19:23 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
Another opinion.
It is possible to study such things, and even give caveats and error
bounds to show uncertainty.
I went looking, but as T.C. Hollingsworth said, it doesn't appear that
either side has produced anything much in the
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 12:52:00PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
I haven't found anything much beyond the initial pretty small study
(62 participants) cited (and conducted) by Nielsen,
Do you have a link to this one? This is the one I was originally
looking for, but I still can't find the
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 21:06 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 12:52:00PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
I haven't found anything much beyond the initial pretty small study
(62 participants) cited (and conducted) by Nielsen,
Do you have a link to this one? This is the
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 21:06 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 12:52:00PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
I haven't found anything much beyond the initial pretty small study
(62 participants) cited (and conducted) by Nielsen,
Do you have a link to this one? This is the
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 13:20 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
That's it. So far as I can see, that's the sole reference to any actual
identifiable study. And again, so far as I can see, the entire 2009
debate spiraled out from that single post, with lots of 'experts' adding
their subjective $0.02
Le samedi 04 mai 2013 à 05:51 -0400, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
Hi
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Michael Scherer wrote:
and I think that even Bruce Schneier have gave his opinion in
favor of
the proposal :
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 05:01 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The appropriate place to discuss deliberate design decisions is a
forum where said decisions are made, ie not Bugzilla.
Or a forum where said decisions can be overridden with a little more
sanity, such as FESCo.
--
dwmw2
smime.p7s
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 22:48 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 05:01 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The appropriate place to discuss deliberate design decisions is a
forum where said decisions are made, ie not Bugzilla.
Or a forum where said decisions can be overridden with
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 22:48 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 05:01 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The appropriate place to discuss deliberate design decisions is a
forum where said decisions are
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote:
and I think that even Bruce Schneier have gave his opinion in favor of
the proposal :
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/the_problem_wit_2.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/the_pros_and_co.html
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com wrote:
You posted this on friday afternoon, Rauhl re-opened the bug
friday night. I suspect many anaconda folks have not even seen this
discussion or the bug reopening yet. Is there some massive hurry here?
No.
Lets see what
On May 4, 2013, at 3:37 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote:
Or I could also speak of the small non standard keyboard such as macbook
one where ~ or | are not printed and where using the wrong keyboard
could result in wrong characters if you are unaware of the problem.
I don't know what
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 15:58:03 -0700,
Dan Mashal dan.mas...@gmail.com wrote:
I would rather have QA have move oversight on these things. As I only
discovered this while doing QA.
QA isn't really the right place to make up policy. This particular case
doesn't seem to be something that
On 4 May 2013 23:42, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com wrote:
On Sat, 4 May 2013 15:22:01 -0700
Dan Mashal dan.mas...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com
wrote:
On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 15:58 -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
If they do decide to keep the change, you could escalate it to FESCo.
However, (speaking only for myself here) I would be VERY reluctant to
override maintainers on their packages on something that is a design
decision/judgement call.
On 4 May 2013 19:23, Richard W.M. Jones rjo...@redhat.com wrote:
Another opinion.
It is possible to study such things, and even give caveats and error
bounds to show uncertainty.
Yes and no. It's possible it a tightly defined setting with specified
outcomes. Since a crucial factors here
Le samedi 04 mai 2013 à 15:22 -0700, Dan Mashal a écrit :
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote:
and I think that even Bruce Schneier have gave his opinion in favor of
the proposal :
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/the_problem_wit_2.html
Le samedi 04 mai 2013 à 17:06 -0600, Chris Murphy a écrit :
On May 4, 2013, at 3:37 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote:
Or I could also speak of the small non standard keyboard such as macbook
one where ~ or | are not printed and where using the wrong keyboard
could result in
On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 04:42:58PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
If they do decide to keep the change, you could escalate it to FESCo.
However, (speaking only for myself here) I would be VERY reluctant to
override maintainers on their packages on something that is a design
decision/judgement
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