Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Hedayat Vatankhah]

 Hi,


/*Ben Williams*/ wrote on Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:35:08 -0400:

hello

This is an issue i am seeing with new users:

I was at a University installfest this weekend and this was the major 
issues for Endusers.


case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in this 
case) for a class. they are required for said class to install the 
guest additions. they are constantly running into errors that the 
guest addidions will not build  (there install does not have 
kernel-devel install.  They used the F26 release so now have the 
release kernel and so they install sudo dnf install kernel-devel and 
still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel versions do not match).


Case B) third party video or wireless driver same issue no 
kernel-devel, no wireless no internet == fix by sneakernet



Both of these issues can be easily fixed by including kernel-devel in 
a group or by adding kernel-devel to all the Desktop Environment 
kickstarts.
Including kernel-devel will add lots of stuff (e.g. gcc) which are 
needed to compile something. Which, I think won't happen. kernel - 
kernel-devel version mismatch is something that happens a lot, so maybe 
something should be done for that.






To me this simple fix will help our new users and will not leave such 
a unfriendly feeling (and hopeful increase our contributor base down 
the road)


Ben

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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Nicolas Chauvet]

2017-09-12 17:35 GMT+02:00 Ben Williams :
> hello
>
> This is an issue i am seeing with new users:
>
> I was at a University installfest this weekend and this was the major issues
> for Endusers.
>
> case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in this case) for
> a class. they are required for said class to install the guest additions.
> they are constantly running into errors that the guest addidions will not
> build  (there install does not have kernel-devel install.  They used the F26
> release so now have the release kernel and so they install sudo dnf install
> kernel-devel and still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel versions do not
> match).
For this very specific issue (where kernel and kernel-devel version
does not match, but the appropriate variant is installed), I have a
suggested a patch from the kernel.

But this patch depends on the ability to allow Boolean dependencies on
Requires (it wouldn't work with Suggests/Recommends)
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ker...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/6KCGSOP77VEGRC5UNC2FMRFEPEY2WSQ5/
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1450577

> Case B) third party video or wireless driver same issue no kernel-devel, no
> wireless no internet == fix by sneakernet
So, as I understand this issue, you are suggesting to have the
kernel-devel on the install media ?
But then it would probably requires gcc and others dependencies if not
already there.

-- 
-

Nicolas (kwizart)
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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Sérgio Basto]

On Tue, 2017-09-12 at 18:03 +0200, Dan Horák wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:49:38 -0400
> Matthew Miller  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:35:08AM -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
> > > case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in
> > > this
> > > case) for a class. they are required for said class to install
> > > the
> > > guest additions. they are constantly running into errors that the
> > > guest addidions will not build  (there install does not have
> > > kernel-devel install.  They used the F26 release so now have the
> > > release kernel and so they install sudo dnf install kernel-devel
> > > and
> > > still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel versions do not
> > > match).
> > 
> > Isn't the solution here for the guest addons to require kernel-
> > devel?
> 
> Isn't
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VirtualBox_Guest_Integration
> going to fix all the problems?

Yes , but "dnf installs the wrong kernel variant subpackages" [1] is an
well known problem, in all faqs we have [2], anyway never understood
why we can install kernel-devel without kernel count part [3] (which
also may solve the problem), also with use of rpm boolean dependencies,
seems we can solve this problem, but rpm boolean dependencies will be
just available in F27 or 28 if I'm correct .

[1]
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1228897

[2]
dnf install VirtualBox kernel-devel-$(uname -r) akmod-VirtualBox

https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/VirtualBox#Fedora_as_a_Virtual_Machine_and_
VBoxGuestAdditions

https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/VirtualBox#Quick_install
 

[3] 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1228897#c13

> 
>   Dan
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-- 
Sérgio M. B.
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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Ben Williams]

Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:35:50 +
From: "Klosowski, Przemek (Fed)"<przemek.klosow...@nist.gov>
Subject: Re: getting kernel-devel added
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On 09/12/2017 11:35 AM, Ben Williams wrote:
They used the F26 release so now have the release kernel and so they instal=
l sudo dnf install kernel-devel and still have issues (kernel and kernel-de=
vel versions do not match).

You're saying that they need to reboot, because kernel-devel update forces =
 the new kernel but they still run on the old kernel? that's going to bite =
them repeatedly every time kernel updates, if the virtual tools bypass the =
system packaging. It needs to be solved by virtual tools integration, or by=
 more explicit warnings on kernel updates.

no not what i said and the reboots are not the issue
once kernel-devel is on the system with the correct kernel any future updates 
both will be updated.
the issue is kernel-devel is not installed ootb with any of our DEs and i am 
giving the issue to you from the enduser prespective

install the f26 release iso from get fedora do a rpm -qa |grep kernel  
kernel-devel is needed by lots of our endusers

I produce the updated isos i have added kernel-devel to my ks but it would be a 
better exiperence going forward for the new enduser if kernel-devel was 
included by default in the woekstation and spins

Ben

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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Klosowski, Przemek (Fed)]

On 09/12/2017 11:35 AM, Ben Williams wrote:
They used the F26 release so now have the release kernel and so they install 
sudo dnf install kernel-devel and still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel 
versions do not match).

You're saying that they need to reboot, because kernel-devel update forces  the 
new kernel but they still run on the old kernel? that's going to bite them 
repeatedly every time kernel updates, if the virtual tools bypass the system 
packaging. It needs to be solved by virtual tools integration, or by more 
explicit warnings on kernel updates.
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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Dan Horák]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:49:38 -0400
Matthew Miller  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:35:08AM -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
> > case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in this
> > case) for a class. they are required for said class to install the
> > guest additions. they are constantly running into errors that the
> > guest addidions will not build  (there install does not have
> > kernel-devel install.  They used the F26 release so now have the
> > release kernel and so they install sudo dnf install kernel-devel and
> > still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel versions do not match).
> 
> Isn't the solution here for the guest addons to require kernel-devel?

Isn't
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VirtualBox_Guest_Integration
going to fix all the problems?


Dan
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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Eric Sandeen]

On 9/12/17 10:49 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:35:08AM -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
>> case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in this
>> case) for a class. they are required for said class to install the
>> guest additions. they are constantly running into errors that the
>> guest addidions will not build  (there install does not have
>> kernel-devel install.  They used the F26 release so now have the
>> release kernel and so they install sudo dnf install kernel-devel and
>> still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel versions do not match).
> 
> Isn't the solution here for the guest addons to require kernel-devel?

That was my thought as well, though the addons may be circumventing
the whole rpm/dnf mechanism for all I know.
 
>> Case B) third party video or wireless driver same issue no
>> kernel-devel, no wireless no internet == fix by sneakernet
> 
> Also same?

Well, if you need it for wireless, and you only have wireless, requiring
it doesn't help much if you can't retrieve it over your non-functioning
network card.  Still, I'm not sure that's a problem for Fedora to solve?

OTOH installing kernel-devel by default isn't too heavyweight, I think.

-Eric

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Re: getting kernel-devel added

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:35:08AM -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
> case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in this
> case) for a class. they are required for said class to install the
> guest additions. they are constantly running into errors that the
> guest addidions will not build  (there install does not have
> kernel-devel install.  They used the F26 release so now have the
> release kernel and so they install sudo dnf install kernel-devel and
> still have issues (kernel and kernel-devel versions do not match).

Isn't the solution here for the guest addons to require kernel-devel?

> Case B) third party video or wireless driver same issue no
> kernel-devel, no wireless no internet == fix by sneakernet

Also same?

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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getting kernel-devel added

[Ben Williams]

hello

This is an issue i am seeing with new users:

I was at a University installfest this weekend and this was the major 
issues for Endusers.


case A) Students are using Fedora on windows in a VM (Vbox in this case) 
for a class. they are required for said class to install the guest 
additions. they are constantly running into errors that the guest 
addidions will not build  (there install does not have kernel-devel 
install.  They used the F26 release so now have the release kernel and 
so they install sudo dnf install kernel-devel and still have issues 
(kernel and kernel-devel versions do not match).


Case B) third party video or wireless driver same issue no kernel-devel, 
no wireless no internet == fix by sneakernet



Both of these issues can be easily fixed by including kernel-devel in a 
group or by adding kernel-devel to all the Desktop Environment kickstarts.


To me this simple fix will help our new users and will not leave such a 
unfriendly feeling (and hopeful increase our contributor base down the road)


Ben

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