Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread Neil Graham
On Saturday 17 May 2008 5:26:06 pm John R.Hogerhuis wrote: One possible idea: rather than popping up the frame when near the edge, pop up a translucent overlay in key places that looks just like the keyboard frame key. If the user clicks on it, then bring up the whole frame. I had been

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Sameer Verma
Albert Cahalan wrote: Robert Myers writes: The folks that are buying them, Ministries of Education, governments, charities all have their own agendas. They do not necessarily line up with the agendas of our real customers - children and educators, or our own. If we have to give them some

Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread david
On Sat, 17 May 2008, John R.Hogerhuis wrote: Eben Eliason eben.eliason at gmail.com writes: Right. I think this is the biggest point of conflict between my own thoughts for solving the issues and those of the community providing feedback about it. I certainly take the comments regarding

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Albert Cahalan
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 2:24 AM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Albert Cahalan wrote: Watch the video. XP boots fast, What does a fast boot up have to do with the overall usability and productivity of a system? You can always show a boot screen early in the process and say its boots

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't need computers for constructionism. If pushing educational theories of questionable value is your thing, Can we stop beating constructionism for no reason, and without any facts? First, a bit of debunking of the

Re: [sugar] Microsoft

2008-05-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:28 AM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just look at the deal. Dual-boot costs $7 extra. Governments will not pay

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Albert Cahalan
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't need computers for constructionism. If pushing educational theories of questionable value is your thing, Can we stop beating

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup

2008-05-17 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
Hi, I remember to have heard some rumor about Microsoft considering to use the internal NAND as swapping, thus killing any OS that may be installed there. This would mean that by dual-boot we are talking about having two SD cards each with a different OS? Regards, Tomeu On Sat, May 17, 2008

Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Neil Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 17 May 2008 5:26:06 pm John R.Hogerhuis wrote: One possible idea: rather than popping up the frame when near the edge, pop up a translucent overlay in key places that looks just like the keyboard frame key. If

Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent

2008-05-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Garrett Goebel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Denver Gingerich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Garrett Goebel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] The Cambridge Lab staff ought to do a little self-examination.

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reason: it's not at all related to laptop computers Fact: it's not universally valued by teachers This *is* a project pushing the envelope. Waiting for universal consensus is aiming for the lowest common denominator.

Re: [sugar] Release management for upcoming bug fix releases and August release

2008-05-17 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
Hi, On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Kim Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A high level view of this process: 1) Prioritize feature and bug fix requests from deployments, developers, support, our sales/marketing group 2) Triage bugs to determine which bugs are critical to fix to meet the

Re: View Source question

2008-05-17 Thread Morgan Collett
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:59 AM, Neil Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: activity in develop. You wouldn't want a single key for that since it's a significant operation that you don't want to launch by mistake. The key combination is fn-space (which has a gear icon on it).

Re: View Source question

2008-05-17 Thread Walter Bender
Indeed, that is one of the virtues of Squeak. Python was somewhat of a compromise in this respect, but it has the virtual that opens up ready access to most of the rest of the GNU/Linux world. Both are pretty friendly development environments. It is probably easier to design an onion-like view

Re: View Source question

2008-05-17 Thread Morgan Collett
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Robert Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'View Source' is touted as one of the user win features of the XO. There doesn't seem to be much useful discussion of it on the wiki. What's the best path for making an activity 'view source' friendly? Reverse engineering

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup

2008-05-17 Thread Jim Gettys
On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 17:32 -0500, Robert Myers wrote: I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO single boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't fit on the flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd guess the flash is just being used

Re: New update.1 build 704

2008-05-17 Thread Ricardo Carrano
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Bernie Innocenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Stone wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 04:31:05PM +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: The changelog for olpc-utils is missing. Is it a bug in the script? Seems likely to me since Koji printed the appropriate

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup

2008-05-17 Thread Joshua N Pritikin
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:56:27AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: I remember to have heard some rumor about Microsoft considering to use the internal NAND as swapping, thus killing any OS that may be installed there. That would be disappointing. Can OFW hide the internal NAND when booting Windows

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Sameer Verma
Martin Langhoff wrote: On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't need computers for constructionism. If pushing educational theories of questionable value is your thing, Can we stop beating constructionism for no reason, and without any

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Sameer Verma
Martin Langhoff wrote: On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't need computers for constructionism. If pushing educational theories of questionable value is your thing, Can we stop beating constructionism for no reason, and without any

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Sameer Verma
Albert Cahalan wrote: On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 2:24 AM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Albert Cahalan wrote: Watch the video. XP boots fast, What does a fast boot up have to do with the overall usability and productivity of a system? You can always show a boot

Re: [sugar] Microsoft

2008-05-17 Thread Jim Gettys
On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 22:19 -0400, Albert Cahalan wrote: Windows-only is $3 extra. No, you can't fit Windows in 1 Gig of NAND. You get to pay the $7 for an SD card no matter what, to run Windows, for $10 total. - Jim -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop

Has joyride/faster auto-build process broken?

2008-05-17 Thread Gary C Martin
Just noticed that joyride build1950 (from Thurs May 15th) seems to be the last joyride build that has any available content – since then the build directories are all empty: http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/ Did it break, or is it perhaps being moved to another

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Richard A. Smith
Sameer Verma wrote: The other thing that was strange was that when he captures video, the camera light did not come on. Isn't the camera wired in series with the LED? If that's the case then the LED should be on...or the video was edited post production. Probably it is old hardware.

Re: Is there a way to start sugar from the command line

2008-05-17 Thread f f m
Steve Lewis-7 wrote: I want to start sugar from a command line without invoking special keys - is there any way to do so??? Ok, that wasn't very clear, but here goes... If you are at a TTY console on an XO and for some reason X11 is not running, you can run olpc-dm to start X and sugar.

Re: Has joyride/faster auto-build process broken?

2008-05-17 Thread Richard A. Smith
Gary C Martin wrote: Just noticed that joyride build1950 (from Thurs May 15th) seems to be the last joyride build that has any available content – since then the build directories are all empty: http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/ Did it break, or is it

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Sameer Verma
Richard A. Smith wrote: Sameer Verma wrote: The other thing that was strange was that when he captures video, the camera light did not come on. Isn't the camera wired in series with the LED? If that's the case then the LED should be on...or the video was edited post production.

Re: [Testing] [sugar] Release management for upcoming bug fix releases and August release

2008-05-17 Thread Kim Quirk
The prioritized list has been discussed in a number of venues, and has general acceptance. Chuck is having regular management mtgs (weekly) so I intend to put this priority list in front of this group every week to make sure that this list is well communicated and if someone needs to bring up a

Re: [Testing] [sugar] Release management for upcoming bug fix releases and August release

2008-05-17 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
Kim Quirk wrote: I don't believe this is a one person job. +1 Here are some suggestions: * Marco has led the sugar team bug priorities in the past (do you want to do that again?). Yup. Started to do some work on it last week. Marco ___ Devel

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread John R . Hogerhuis
Sameer Verma sverma at sfsu.edu writes: Yeah, its probably #1. Boot up times become moot if children simply rely on suspend and resume with topping up the battery whenever possible. Its the actual performance of the environment that really matters. I would say both are important in a

Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view

2008-05-17 Thread Carol Lerche
That is exactly what happened in my daughter's class. Scenario is: small child experiences a problem. Adult is supervising multiple children and answering questions, unable to spend 5 minutes focussing on one child's wedged XO. Rebooting deterministically recovers from problems (resets to a

Re: How do I project an XO

2008-05-17 Thread Kurt Gramlich
* Steve Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080516 07:55]: I am doing a talk in front of a large audience and would like to show the XO's screen on a projector. I have a laptop which can be projected and ideally would like to show the XO's screen on the laptop. Other solutions (not a camera on the

Re: How do I project an XO

2008-05-17 Thread M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
Kurt Gramlich wrote: * Steve Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080516 07:55]: I am doing a talk in front of a large audience and would like to show the XO's screen on a projector. I have a laptop which can be projected and ideally would like to show the XO's screen on the laptop. Other solutions

Re: [Etoys] squeak image sometimes takes very long to be responsive after XO suspend

2008-05-17 Thread Yoshiki Ohshima
Basically when coming out of suspend, the Squeak process takes up lots of cpu power and can be unresponsive for about a minute on build 703 (other builds not yet tested). Hmm. Interestingly, windows VM has similar problem. If you suspend Windows with Squeak running, resuming takes long

Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread Eben Eliason
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:26 AM, John R. Hogerhuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eben Eliason eben.eliason at gmail.com writes: Right. I think this is the biggest point of conflict between my own thoughts for solving the issues and those of the community providing feedback about it. I certainly

Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread Gary C Martin
On 18 May 2008, at 04:45, Eben Eliason wrote: This is actually a very promising idea indeed. I think this merits some exploration for sure, and save the delay miraculously pleasing everyone, something we should definitely try in the near future. Someone mentioned this could be hard without

Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread John R. Hogerhuis
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:45 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:26 AM, John R. Hogerhuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed. My other /suspicion/ (could be completely wrong, I admit!) is that it's frequently bumped in passing. That is, the cursor briefly

Re: Frame Decision (was [sugar] OLPC priorities for Sugar in the August release)

2008-05-17 Thread John R. Hogerhuis
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Do the 'frame reveal corner arrows' only appear when you hit the corners, or when your mouse is over the corner area (discoverability)? What is the difference between hit the corner/over the corner area? What I was