Re: dmd 2.063 beta 5

2013-05-27 Thread TommiT
On Friday, 24 May 2013 at 13:54:21 UTC, Dicebot wrote: There is an option to prohibit initializers for struct member declarations at all and allow CTFE-able default constructors instead, but that would have been a major change. I don't see a reason why we couldn't have both ways (1. member

v1.0.0 of templ-d: An Embedded D Template Engine

2013-05-27 Thread Dylan Knutson
Hello everyone, A few of you might have remembered me posting a proof-of-concept embedded D template engine a week or two ago. I'd like to announce that a few weeks of development later, I've extracted the core idea of that into a Dub-compatible library, called templ-d. The syntax that

Re: dmd 2.063 beta 5

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 07:32:15 UTC, TommiT wrote: I don't see a reason why we couldn't have both ways (1. member initializers and 2. CTFE-able default constructor) for defining the init state of structs. Probably the sensible thing would be to make all member initializers illegal iff a

Re: DConf 2013 Day 1 Talk 6: Concurrent Garbage Collection for D by Leandro Lucarella

2013-05-27 Thread Sean Cavanaugh
On 5/24/2013 11:12 PM, Diggory wrote: On 64-bit windows there is also the GetWriteWatch function which lets you access the dirty flag in the page table = no page faults = super efficient concurrent generational GC. Just a shame it doesn't exist on 32-bit systems for some reason. There's all

Re: dmd 2.063 beta 5

2013-05-27 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Dicebot, el 23 de May a las 16:42 me escribiste: something I may have actually used in real code writing a low-level networking library: struct Packet { immutable etherType = 0x0800; // IPv4 by default; // ... this(bool IPv6) { if

Re: dmd 2.063 beta 5

2013-05-27 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Andrei Alexandrescu, el 23 de May a las 12:57 me escribiste: On 5/23/13 9:12 AM, Don wrote: No, it's not, it's a fix plus a new misfeature. Don, you're wrong. The feature is sensible. The problem with it is that it changes semantics of existing code. Is not sensible for code review. For me

Re: DConf 2013 Day 1 Talk 6: Concurrent Garbage Collection for D by Leandro Lucarella

2013-05-27 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Vladimir Panteleev, el 24 de May a las 09:55 me escribiste: When the GC is run: - Use VirtualProtect to mark all mutable memory pages as read-only - Add a vectored exception handler to handle the access violation exception - Resume the GC thread I've tried writing a generational GC for D

Re: dmd 2.063 beta 5

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 17:08:19 UTC, Leandro Lucarella wrote: You can achieve the same with: if (!IPv6) etherType = 0x0800; else ... There is no need to double-initialize a immutable value. As I have already

Re: DConf 2013 Day 1 Talk 6: Concurrent Garbage Collection for D by Leandro Lucarella

2013-05-27 Thread Brian Rogoff
On Friday, 24 May 2013 at 19:44:19 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2013 20:30:54 Juan Manuel Cabo wrote: I'd like to know if there is interest in a precise garbage collector. There is interest in it, and Rainer Schütze did a talk on it at DConf. At the current pace (assuming

Re: dmd 2.063 beta 5

2013-05-27 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Steven Schveighoffer, el 23 de May a las 23:53 me escribiste: On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:38:32 -0400, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: On 5/23/2013 7:38 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: This is one change where ALL code broken by this change is fixable with a simple solution, and

New std.uni Approved

2013-05-27 Thread Jesse Phillips
With a vote 15/0 the new standard std.uni is approved to replace the existing module. Several people were in favor of the name changing to std.unicode others opposed unless it was part of a Phobos restructure. Such is up to the core devs to decide. Congrads Dmitry.

Re: DConf 2013 Day 1 Talk 6: Concurrent Garbage Collection for D by Leandro Lucarella

2013-05-27 Thread Diggory
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 17:56:10 UTC, Brian Rogoff wrote: On Friday, 24 May 2013 at 19:44:19 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2013 20:30:54 Juan Manuel Cabo wrote: I'd like to know if there is interest in a precise garbage collector. There is interest in it, and Rainer

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Nick Sabalausky
On Sun, 26 May 2013 17:38:21 -0700 Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com wrote: On Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:46:53 Walter Bright wrote: Making non-nullable pointers is just plugging one hole in a cheese grater. LOL. That is highly quotable. As a person who very much enjoys a quality

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Nick Sabalausky
On Sun, 26 May 2013 13:03:49 +0200 Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: Well at least for Android, yes there is a proof. http://blog.bugsense.com/post/49924755479/bigdata-in-motion-building-a-real-time-android http://www.bugsense.com/live Just watch NullPointerExceptions fly by.

Re: Why UTF-8/16 character encodings?

2013-05-27 Thread Joakim
On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 21:08:40 UTC, Marcin Mstowski wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote: Also, one of the first pages talks about representations of floating point and integer numbers, which are outside the purview of the text encodings we're talking

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Paulo Pinto
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 01:29:12 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 05:20:59PM -0700, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 05/26/2013 01:04 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Yeah, I did the 'Soccer' one. http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Mattel/Soccer.htm That's before my time. :) I have played with

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Paulo Pinto
On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 19:49:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Sun, 26 May 2013 13:18:32 +0200 Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: Did you had the pleasure to write portable C or C++ code across multiple operating systems and vendors in the mid 90's? Luckily, no. For me it was just

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Rob T
I really don't understand the reasoning for not removing as many known sources of bugs as is reasonably possible *provided* that doing so makes the situation incrementally better (rather than worse or to no effect). So will introducing non-nullable references make things worse or have no

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, May 27, 2013 08:49:37 Rob T wrote: So will introducing non-nullable references make things worse or have no practical effect? We're going to add non-nullable references as a library type (NotNull!T or NonNullable!T or somesuch). That will allow you to type references as being

Re: Skiping whitespace

2013-05-27 Thread matovitch
On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 23:32:36 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: A single space character in the format specifier is a placeholder for zero or more whitespace characters: import std.stdio; void main() { float x; float y; float z; auto file = File(deneme.txt); file.readf( %s

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Nick Sabalausky
On Mon, 27 May 2013 08:22:02 +0200 Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 01:29:12 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 05:20:59PM -0700, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 05/26/2013 01:04 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Yeah, I did the 'Soccer' one.

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Walter Bright
On 5/26/2013 11:59 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Again, it's not the case that null references aren't a problem. It's just that they're being blown of proportion, and it's just not worth adding a built-in type to deal with them at this point (let alone making references in general non-nullable by

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread Idan Arye
On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 01:47:39 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 5/25/13 9:18 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 01:12:35 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 5/25/13 9:03 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 5/26/13, Andrei Alexandrescuseewebsiteforem...@erdani.org in { auto

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 06:59:31 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, May 27, 2013 08:49:37 Rob T wrote: So will introducing non-nullable references make things worse or have no practical effect? We're going to add non-nullable references as a library type (NotNull!T or NonNullable!T

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 00:43:36 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That was technically difficult to do back then, and fell by the wayside. Today it would break too much code to introduce even if feasible. Can you expand more on the breakage risk please ?

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:37:38 deadalnix wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 00:43:36 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That was technically difficult to do back then, and fell by the wayside. Today it would break too much code to introduce even if feasible. Can you expand more on the

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:27:58 deadalnix wrote: What need to be added to the language to make the lib work is equivalent to what is needed to make it the default (Make the compiler track initialization), and is also required for other aspects of the language (initialize immutable objects).

Re: DMD under 64-bit Windows 7 HOWTO

2013-05-27 Thread Paulo Pinto
On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 23:33:56 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: On Sun, 26 May 2013 16:22:54 -0700, Manu turkey...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 May 2013 15:03, Adam Wilson flybo...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2013 18:24:41 -0700, Manu turkey...@gmail.com wrote: FYI. DMD did not work

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Walter Bright
On 5/27/2013 12:27 AM, deadalnix wrote: Many people here have expressed real problem with null, a lot of documentation on the web exists about it as well, and most modern languages try as hard as possible to get rid of it (even sometime in creative way as scala does as they can't get rid of it

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 07:45:41 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I don't see why. NotNull would statically prevent assigning null to it (which is easy to do, since null has its own type) and will assert that any references assigned to it are null. You then have the guarantee that NotNull!T is

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 07:53:05 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 5/27/2013 12:27 AM, deadalnix wrote: Many people here have expressed real problem with null, a lot of documentation on the web exists about it as well, and most modern languages try as hard as possible to get rid of it (even

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:59:32 deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 07:45:41 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I don't see why. NotNull would statically prevent assigning null to it (which is easy to do, since null has its own type) and will assert that any references assigned to it

Re: D's limited template specialization abilities compared to C++

2013-05-27 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 5/27/13, Timon Gehr timon.g...@gmx.ch wrote: The reason is that the feature is undocumented. (The grammar specification mentions the syntax, though.) I wonder how many other easter eggs there are in the language. :p

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 08:06:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: That is not enough. NotNull must be initialized, so the compiler have to track initialization in way it don't do today. This is the exact same processing required to ensure non null references. @disable this(); would solve that.

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 07:42:44 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:37:38 deadalnix wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 00:43:36 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That was technically difficult to do back then, and fell by the wayside. Today it would break too much code

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Walter Bright
On 5/27/2013 2:05 AM, deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 08:06:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: That is not enough. NotNull must be initialized, so the compiler have to track initialization in way it don't do today. This is the exact same processing required to ensure non null

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:08:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 5/27/2013 2:05 AM, deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 08:06:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: That is not enough. NotNull must be initialized, so the compiler have to track initialization in way it don't do today. This is

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:08:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Are you arguing that notnull should be a core language feature instead of a library one? Can't day for deadalnix, but I'd argue it is much more useful as default behavior :P (does not matter, core or library, but we can't do

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, May 27, 2013 11:17:57 deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:08:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 5/27/2013 2:05 AM, deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 08:06:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: That is not enough. NotNull must be initialized, so the compiler have to

Re: Tuples

2013-05-27 Thread Diggory
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 03:28:07 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 02:31:50 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, May 27, 2013 04:24:51 Diggory wrote: It also shouldn't break any code since the only addition to TypeTuple is a check to make sure that the undocumented

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:27:28 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Except that we already have that feature and have had it for some time. It's just that it has bugs which need to be sorted out (at least some of which were recently fixed). So, we don't need any features for NotNull to work that

Re: Tuples

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:25:14 UTC, Diggory wrote: Granted that nobody understand them, it is fair to say it should be changed. In case people agree: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/1309 I'm all for it. Thank you.

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread Idan Arye
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:06:58 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 07:42:44 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:37:38 deadalnix wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 00:43:36 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That was technically difficult to do back then, and

wc.d program from the website

2013-05-27 Thread Russel Winder
Does the code at http://dlang.org/wc.html represent the canonical D code style? I note that: rdmd wc.d wc.d fails to behave analogously to how: /usr/bin/wc wc.d does. -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder

Re: wc.d program from the website

2013-05-27 Thread Peter Alexander
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 10:26:37 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: Does the code at http://dlang.org/wc.html represent the canonical D code style? I note that: rdmd wc.d wc.d fails to behave analogously to how: /usr/bin/wc wc.d does. I'm pretty sure canonical wc in D would

Wondering about errors…

2013-05-27 Thread Russel Winder
Using rdmd, it appears that the first error in the code can lead the parsing and template handling of everything following to be wrong. I keep finding that I am getting spurious errors about things nothing to do with the actual error, that simply go away when the real error is fixed. This would

Discussion of TypeTuple naming

2013-05-27 Thread Diggory
I gather this has been discussed before and even a potential solution submitted (https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/780) However it was dismissed due to too much existing code being broken. I'd like to suggest a slightly less severe change which should still fix the

Re: Wondering about errors…

2013-05-27 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
Yeah, me too. I take a working program and add gf to the middle of it. Here's the errors: base.d(2143): Error: found '{' when expecting ';' following statement base.d(2168): Error: unexpected ( in declarator base.d(2168): Error: basic type expected, not div base.d(2168): Error: found 'div'

Re: Why UTF-8/16 character encodings?

2013-05-27 Thread John Colvin
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 06:11:20 UTC, Joakim wrote: You claimed that my encoding was reinventing the wheel, therefore the onus is on you to show which of the multiple encodings CDRA uses that I'm reinventing. I'm not interested in delving into the docs for some dead IBM format to prove

Re: Discussion of TypeTuple naming

2013-05-27 Thread Timon Gehr
On 05/27/2013 01:36 PM, Diggory wrote: I gather this has been discussed before and even a potential solution submitted (https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/780) However it was dismissed due to too much existing code being broken. I'd like to suggest a slightly less severe

Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1f2nwe/zerors_rust_without_a_runtime/ It really makes me sad to see that Rust, despite being that immature and unstable is _already_ closer to embedded environments than D. Any possibility of a change? :P

Re: Are people using textmate for D programming?

2013-05-27 Thread Jacob Carlborg
On 2013-05-26 02:33, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Also, is it possible to switch to an alternative syntax inside D comments? I would guess so. At least it's possible in TextMate. You would probably need a specific character to indicate that the text that would follow should be parsed as a

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
most minimal, few D features actually work: http://arsdnet.net/dcode/minimal.d slightly less minimal, with a few more things working: http://arsdnet.net/dcode/minimal.zip I haven't spent a lot of time on this, more just wondering if it could be done, so most of D still doesn't actually work

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 3:21 AM, Idan Arye wrote: Wouldn't it be simpler to define in the `in` clause what to pass to the out clause? Something like: class A { void fun() in { out oldLen = this.length; } out { assert(this.length == oldLen + 1); } body { ... } } Or even combine the two: class A { void

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 3:37 AM, deadalnix wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 00:43:36 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That was technically difficult to do back then, and fell by the wayside. Today it would break too much code to introduce even if feasible. Can you expand more on the breakage risk please ?

Re: Out contracts: how to refer to objects' start state

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 3:42 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:37:38 deadalnix wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 00:43:36 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That was technically difficult to do back then, and fell by the wayside. Today it would break too much code to introduce even if

Re: Wondering about errors…

2013-05-27 Thread Maxim Fomin
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 11:51:45 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: Yeah, me too. base.d(2141): Error: undefined identifier gf, did you mean template to(T)? /home/me/d/dmd2/linux/bin32/../../src/phobos/std/format.d(1723): Error: template std.format.formatRange does not match any function template

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 3:45 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, May 27, 2013 09:27:58 deadalnix wrote: What need to be added to the language to make the lib work is equivalent to what is needed to make it the default (Make the compiler track initialization), and is also required for other aspects of the

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 5:17 AM, deadalnix wrote: I'm saying that NonNull require language support, either by making it a first class entity, or by introducing some other language feature like @disable this(). At the end it doesn't change anything for the compiler, the exact same work have to be done, simply

Re: Why UTF-8/16 character encodings?

2013-05-27 Thread Joakim
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 12:25:06 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 06:11:20 UTC, Joakim wrote: You claimed that my encoding was reinventing the wheel, therefore the onus is on you to show which of the multiple encodings CDRA uses that I'm reinventing. I'm not interested in

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 14:21:24 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: most minimal, few D features actually work: http://arsdnet.net/dcode/minimal.d slightly less minimal, with a few more things working: http://arsdnet.net/dcode/minimal.zip I haven't spent a lot of time on this, more just wondering if

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 5:38 AM, deadalnix wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 09:27:28 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Except that we already have that feature and have had it for some time. It's just that it has bugs which need to be sorted out (at least some of which were recently fixed). So, we don't need any

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 14:36:26 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 5/27/13 5:17 AM, deadalnix wrote: I'm saying that NonNull require language support, either by making it a first class entity, or by introducing some other language feature like @disable this(). At the end it doesn't change

Re: Wondering about errors…

2013-05-27 Thread Russel Winder
On Mon, 2013-05-27 at 13:51 +0200, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: Yeah, me too. Phew, I'm so pleased it is not just me! My problem was forgetting an import. I am using std.array.split in one function and std.stdio.writef in a completely separate function. With split imported correctly everything compiles

Re: demangle doesn't work with __ModuleInfoZ __initZ __arrayZ

2013-05-27 Thread Peter Alexander
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 04:12:23 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 23:38:33 UTC, Timothee Cour wrote: Is there any plan to support demangling of those: __ModuleInfoZ __initZ __arrayZ ? I have a lot of stuff that do not demangle properly with any tools. I give you one, just

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 14:36:59 UTC, Dicebot wrote: But issue is not creating minimal run-time, it is creating minimal one that still has most part of language usable. eh the question is what is most? Even my little 200 line thing has: functions, templates, scope closures, structs

Re: demangle doesn't work with __ModuleInfoZ __initZ __arrayZ

2013-05-27 Thread David Nadlinger
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 15:22:21 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: Am I the only person that worries greatly about the length of symbols in D? No, I do as well. My units of measurement project suffered from very non-negligible code bloat due to symbol name length, and even if that was a rather

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 02:06:16AM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Sun, 26 May 2013 17:38:21 -0700 Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com wrote: On Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:46:53 Walter Bright wrote: Making non-nullable pointers is just plugging one hole in a cheese grater. LOL.

Re: demangle doesn't work with __ModuleInfoZ __initZ __arrayZ

2013-05-27 Thread Maxim Fomin
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 16:18:34 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 15:22:21 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: Am I the only person that worries greatly about the length of symbols in D? No, I do as well. My units of measurement project suffered from very non-negligible code

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Paulo Pinto
Am 27.05.2013 09:13, schrieb Nick Sabalausky: On Mon, 27 May 2013 08:22:02 +0200 Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 01:29:12 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 05:20:59PM -0700, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 05/26/2013 01:04 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Yeah,

Re: Why UTF-8/16 character encodings?

2013-05-27 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 04:17:06AM +0200, Wyatt wrote: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 21:23:44 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: I have been thinking about this idea of a reprogrammable keyboard, in that the keys are either a fixed layout with LCD labels on each key, or perhaps the whole thing is a long

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Brad Roberts
On 5/27/13 7:03 AM, Dicebot wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1f2nwe/zerors_rust_without_a_runtime/ It really makes me sad to see that Rust, despite being that immature and unstable is _already_ closer to embedded environments than D. Any possibility of a change? :P Of

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 17:18:33 UTC, Brad Roberts wrote: On 5/27/13 7:03 AM, Dicebot wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1f2nwe/zerors_rust_without_a_runtime/ It really makes me sad to see that Rust, despite being that immature and unstable is _already_ closer to embedded

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Walter Bright
On 5/27/2013 2:17 AM, deadalnix wrote: But the argument about compiler feature don't stand, as nonnull pointer and @disable this require the exact same processing in the compiler. Yes, it does stand, as there is a lot of other types that can benefit from @disable this. If notnull is a core

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 17:18:33 UTC, Brad Roberts wrote: Of course there's a possibility of change. Like any aspect of a project like D, it needs a champion. Someone who decides it's important enough for them that they do the work required. It's extremely rare for something to happen

Re: New UTF-8 stride function

2013-05-27 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
27-May-2013 01:04, Kiith-Sa пишет: WRT to the worse Linux64 case: I recommend infinite-cycling it and testing in perf top. (If you're on Ubuntu/derivative or maybe Debian, just type perf top, it will tell you what package to install, and once installed, perf top again, while the benchmark

Re: Rust-based provocation :)

2013-05-27 Thread Dicebot
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 15:45:04 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 14:36:59 UTC, Dicebot wrote: But issue is not creating minimal run-time, it is creating minimal one that still has most part of language usable. eh the question is what is most? Even my little 200 line

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 17:41:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 5/27/2013 2:17 AM, deadalnix wrote: But the argument about compiler feature don't stand, as nonnull pointer and @disable this require the exact same processing in the compiler. Yes, it does stand, as there is a lot of other

Long symbol names (Was: demangle doesn't work with...)

2013-05-27 Thread Peter Alexander
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 16:18:34 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 15:22:21 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: Am I the only person that worries greatly about the length of symbols in D? ——— snip ——— That's 13 kilobytes of data for a single symbol name! The symbols typically

Re: Long symbol names (Was: demangle doesn't work with...)

2013-05-27 Thread deadalnix
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 18:14:59 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 16:18:34 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 15:22:21 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: Am I the only person that worries greatly about the length of symbols in D? ——— snip ——— That's 13

Re: New UTF-8 stride function

2013-05-27 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
27-May-2013 01:50, Juan Manuel Cabo пишет: And these are the results for the same linux 64bit system but compiling with -m32: This is mostly in agreement with what I have on my 4-core AMD Phenom. About the same on Core i5-3550 at work. Looks like I indeed need 'clock for clock' analysis to

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Timon Gehr
On 05/27/2013 01:12 AM, Ziad Hatahet wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Timon Gehr timon.g...@gmx.ch mailto:timon.g...@gmx.ch wrote: IIRC the damage done by software bugs to US economy alone is estimated to be around 60 billion a year. One billion damage done by dereferenceable

Re: Long symbol names (Was: demangle doesn't work with...)

2013-05-27 Thread David Nadlinger
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 18:22:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: The way template are mangled in super redundant. This can probably be fixed easily, but this is a breakage. At this point, ABI stability is still is a long way out anyway. David

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Walter Bright
On 5/27/2013 11:27 AM, Timon Gehr wrote: On 05/27/2013 01:12 AM, Ziad Hatahet wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Timon Gehr timon.g...@gmx.ch mailto:timon.g...@gmx.ch wrote: IIRC the damage done by software bugs to US economy alone is estimated to be around 60 billion a year. One

Re: Discussion of TypeTuple naming

2013-05-27 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 5/27/13, Diggory digg...@googlemail.com wrote: - The result of the change is zero existing code actually failing to compile. TypeTuple will simply show a deprecation warning if used with non-types. You are forgetting about performance. TypeTuple can be used *a lot* in generic code. If you

Re: New UTF-8 stride function

2013-05-27 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
27-May-2013 01:13, Vladimir Panteleev пишет: On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 20:49:36 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: It's the kind of thing that is tremendously hard to measure accurately since it depends on the workload, architecture and the time spent is very small. So don't take it by word I'm

Re: New UTF-8 stride function

2013-05-27 Thread Martin Nowak
On 05/26/2013 10:49 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: If there is anything that come out of UTF-8 discussion is that I decided to dust off my experimental implementation of UTF-8 stride function. Just for fun. The key difference vs std is in handling non-ASCII case. I'm replacing bsr intrinsic

Re: Discussion of TypeTuple naming

2013-05-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, May 27, 2013 21:13:10 Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 5/27/13, Diggory digg...@googlemail.com wrote: - There's no necessity to ever actually completely remove the deprecated behaviour, the deprecation warning is enough. It's not, because now you're forced to always compile with the

Re: Why UTF-8/16 character encodings?

2013-05-27 Thread Vladimir Panteleev
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 02:17:08 UTC, Wyatt wrote: No hardware required; just a smarter IME. Perhaps something like the compose key? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

Re: New UTF-8 stride function

2013-05-27 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
27-May-2013 23:21, Martin Nowak пишет: On 05/26/2013 10:49 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: If there is anything that come out of UTF-8 discussion is that I decided to dust off my experimental implementation of UTF-8 stride function. Just for fun. The key difference vs std is in handling

Re: Wondering about errors…

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 7:51 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: Yeah, me too. I take a working program and add gf to the middle of it. Here's the errors: I'd say that deserves a bugzilla entry. Andrei

Re: demangle doesn't work with __ModuleInfoZ __initZ __arrayZ

2013-05-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 5/27/13 12:18 PM, David Nadlinger wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 15:22:21 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: Am I the only person that worries greatly about the length of symbols in D? No, I do as well. My units of measurement project suffered from very non-negligible code bloat due to symbol

Re: demangle doesn't work with __ModuleInfoZ __initZ __arrayZ

2013-05-27 Thread Peter Alexander
On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 20:14:35 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: At some point Walter and I were talking about generating an MD hash for very long names. That has some disadvantages (i.e. no easy reverse lookup) but it may work. Surely a better solution would be to use a lossless

Re: Wondering about errors…

2013-05-27 Thread Walter Bright
On 5/27/2013 4:32 AM, Russel Winder wrote: Using rdmd, it appears that the first error in the code can lead the parsing and template handling of everything following to be wrong. I keep finding that I am getting spurious errors about things nothing to do with the actual error, that simply go

Re: New UTF-8 stride function

2013-05-27 Thread Martin Nowak
On 05/27/2013 09:21 PM, Martin Nowak wrote: See unittest/benchmark here: https://gist.github.com/blackwhale/5653927 Looks promising. This will not detect 0xFF as invalid UTF-8 sequence. For sequences with 5 or 6 bytes, that aren't used for unicode, it will return a stride of 4.

Re: Why UTF-8/16 character encodings?

2013-05-27 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 09:59:52PM +0200, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 02:17:08 UTC, Wyatt wrote: No hardware required; just a smarter IME. Perhaps something like the compose key? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key I'm already using the compose key. But it

More on Component Programming

2013-05-27 Thread bearophile
This simple task on Rosettacode site is useful to show some uses of Phobos and the component programming recently discussed by Walter (other languages use a different name to denote the same idea). Given a dictionary file of different words, it asks to find any of the longest anagram pairs,

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:55:54 +0200, deadalnix deadal...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 14:36:26 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 5/27/13 5:17 AM, deadalnix wrote: I'm saying that NonNull require language support, either by making it a first class entity, or by introducing some

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
On Mon, 27 May 2013 20:00:30 +0200, deadalnix deadal...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, 27 May 2013 at 17:41:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 5/27/2013 2:17 AM, deadalnix wrote: But the argument about compiler feature don't stand, as nonnull pointer and @disable this require the exact same

Re: [article] Language Design Deal Breakers

2013-05-27 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
On Sun, 26 May 2013 10:50:25 +0200, Nick Sabalausky seewebsitetocontac...@semitwist.com wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2013 22:14:06 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: D's unittest blocks have singlehandedly converted me from a code-by-faith person full of every excuse to *not* write

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