Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Monday, 6 August 2018 at 13:43:46 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: And Octave (via the .mex interface) - this one's important because it opens the door to using D as an extension language to Matlab If an Octave extension written in D works, do you have anywhere to point me to on what's needed to make it work with Matlab? (Is it usually drop-in compatible?) Unfortunately I don't use Matlab and don't have a license to try out. However, as I understand Octave's mex interface, the original goal was to allow Matlab extensions to be compiled and run in Octave. Otherwise you could have a core language that ran Matlab code but extensions would still lock you in to Matlab. Thus, I'm assuming that the ability to use Octave's mex interface implies ability to use Matlab's.
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Monday, 6 August 2018 at 13:32:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote: On Sunday, 5 August 2018 at 22:43:42 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: One benefit of D is as a better glue language that integrates well with other languages and ecosystems. Many people who know a bit about D have no idea that interop can work so easily or well. So it might be worth mentioning this benefit as one link from main page and then linking from that to new page that mentions and has runnable examples (using HAR) for: Python (via autowrap:python and pyd) C (via dpp) C++ (extern(C++) for now) R (via embedr) Julia (via C interface, including julia.h via dpp) Lua (if LuaD stable enough) And Octave (via the .mex interface) - this one's important because it opens the door to using D as an extension language to Matlab If an Octave extension written in D works, do you have anywhere to point me to on what's needed to make it work with Matlab? (Is it usually drop-in compatible?)
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Sunday, 5 August 2018 at 22:43:42 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: One benefit of D is as a better glue language that integrates well with other languages and ecosystems. Many people who know a bit about D have no idea that interop can work so easily or well. So it might be worth mentioning this benefit as one link from main page and then linking from that to new page that mentions and has runnable examples (using HAR) for: Python (via autowrap:python and pyd) C (via dpp) C++ (extern(C++) for now) R (via embedr) Julia (via C interface, including julia.h via dpp) Lua (if LuaD stable enough) And Octave (via the .mex interface) - this one's important because it opens the door to using D as an extension language to Matlab
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Monday, 6 August 2018 at 02:17:28 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote: The C standard library not a true and intrinsic dependency of D, and is outside of D's charter. [...] D is a much more capable programming language than C, and whatever functionality is being imported from the C standard library can be better implemented in D with compile-time optimizations via templates, memory safety, and other benefits. So if I understood correctly, you did not mean ejecting core.stdc but that DRuntime should not depend on it? Yeah, that sound reasonable for me too (If it is practical effort), regardless of DPP. But C libraries should be kept as a backup for platforms where there aren't D implementations. For example, IO functions could first try (using design by introspection) some implementation like https://github.com/schveiguy/iopipe. And if that does not support the enviroment, then fallback to C IO.
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 09:43:13 UTC, Dukc wrote: On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 02:39:23 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote: Cool! Can we now deprecate and eventually jettison C/C++ bindings from druntime, please? Why? The C standard library not a true and intrinsic dependency of D, and is outside of D's charter. There are druntime implementations that leverage the C standard library, but I believe that was largely done for expediency. If one wants to leverage the C standard library for a certain druntime implementation, that's fine, but it should be privately imported. D is a much more capable programming language than C, and whatever functionality is being imported from the C standard library can be better implemented in D with compile-time optimizations via templates, memory safety, and other benefits. Mike
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Sunday, 5 August 2018 at 22:43:42 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: One benefit of D is as a better glue language that integrates well with other languages and ecosystems. Many people who know a bit about D have no idea that interop can work so easily or well. So it might be worth mentioning this benefit as one link from main page and then linking from that to new page that mentions and has runnable examples (using HAR) for: Python (via autowrap:python and pyd) C (via dpp) C++ (extern(C++) for now) R (via embedr) Julia (via C interface, including julia.h via dpp) Lua (if LuaD stable enough) with just screenshot for: Excel (via autowrap excel / excel-d) C# via Binderoo Jupyter via pydmagic and just link for web assembly. Obviously a lot of work, but if you think a good idea we could work away at over time. "Here's something I prepared earlier." https://github.com/thewilsonator/interop This is currently to house [1] to try to show Walter why https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/8120 is a good idea. Unfortunately he remains unconvinced so I think I'm going to have to do it as a DIP [3]. [1]: https://github.com/thewilsonator/interop/blob/master/c%2B%2B/dslice.h [2]: https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/8120 [3]: https://github.com/thewilsonator/DIPs/blob/extern(C++)-array/DIPs/DIP1xxx.md
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 13:15:24 UTC, Seb wrote: On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 01:27:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Thanks to Seb and Atila it is now very easy to show a D program just #includeing C headers. If just works. Modulo bugs. In time I am hopeful Atila will start to have more of C++ headers working too. https://run.dlang.io/is/JlH3Th It now also supports multiple files (and compiling C files) with the Har format [1]: https://run.dlang.io/is/WwpvhT This should hopefully make it even more useful. [1] https://github.com/marler8997/har Thanks v much for this. One benefit of D is as a better glue language that integrates well with other languages and ecosystems. Many people who know a bit about D have no idea that interop can work so easily or well. So it might be worth mentioning this benefit as one link from main page and then linking from that to new page that mentions and has runnable examples (using HAR) for: Python (via autowrap:python and pyd) C (via dpp) C++ (extern(C++) for now) R (via embedr) Julia (via C interface, including julia.h via dpp) Lua (if LuaD stable enough) with just screenshot for: Excel (via autowrap excel / excel-d) C# via Binderoo Jupyter via pydmagic and just link for web assembly. Obviously a lot of work, but if you think a good idea we could work away at over time.
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 01:27:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Thanks to Seb and Atila it is now very easy to show a D program just #includeing C headers. If just works. Modulo bugs. In time I am hopeful Atila will start to have more of C++ headers working too. https://run.dlang.io/is/JlH3Th It now also supports multiple files (and compiling C files) with the Har format [1]: https://run.dlang.io/is/WwpvhT This should hopefully make it even more useful. [1] https://github.com/marler8997/har
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 01:27:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Thanks to Seb and Atila it is now very easy to show a D program just #includeing C headers. If just works. Modulo bugs. In time I am hopeful Atila will start to have more of C++ headers working too. https://run.dlang.io/is/JlH3Th Very cool. It seems like it's on by default with no option to turn it off. Is that a good idea? Also, it appears to have broken for me in the last couple of minutes. It worked initially, then I clicked the link again and ran it, got: Error: Could not execute `dmd onlineapp.d -ofonlineapp`: onlineapp.d(49): Error: no identifier for declarator `typedef` onlineapp.d(49): Error: semicolon expected, not `int` onlineapp.d(53): Error: semicolon expected, not `char` onlineapp.d(54): Error: semicolon expected, not `short` onlineapp.d(54): Error: no identifier for declarator `short` onlineapp.d(55): Error: semicolon expected, not `int` onlineapp.d(56): Error: semicolon expected, not `long` onlineapp.d(56): Error: no identifier for declarator `long` onlineapp.d(59): Error: semicolon expected, not `char` onlineapp.d(60): Error: semicolon expected, not `char` onlineapp.d(61): Error: semicolon expected, not `short` onlineapp.d(61): Error: no identifier for declarator `short` onlineapp.d(62): Error: semicolon expected, not `short` onlineapp.d(62): Error: no identifier for declarator `short` onlineapp.d(63): Error: semicolon expected, not `int` onlineapp.d(64): Error: semicolon expected, not `int` onlineapp.d(66): Error: semicolon expected, not `long` onlineapp.d(66): Error: no identifier for declarator `long` onlineapp.d(67): Error: semicolon expected, not `long` onlineapp.d(67): Error: no identifier for declarator `long` Program exited with code 1
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 02:39:23 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote: Cool! Can we now deprecate and eventually jettison C/C++ bindings from druntime, please? Why? As I understand it, they do not increase your executable size unless used. Besides, the bindings include the @trusted and scope attributes C++ headers don't, and are quicker to compile.
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 05:06:26 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 02:39:23 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote: On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 01:27:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Thanks to Seb and Atila it is now very easy to show a D program just #includeing C headers. If just works. Modulo bugs. In time I am hopeful Atila will start to have more of C++ headers working too. https://run.dlang.io/is/JlH3Th Cool! Can we now deprecate and eventually jettison C/C++ bindings from druntime, please? No, because dpp is new, not commonly used, and I think only works with DMD. Scratch that last part, works with LDC too: https://travis-ci.org/atilaneves/dpp
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 02:39:23 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote: On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 01:27:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Thanks to Seb and Atila it is now very easy to show a D program just #includeing C headers. If just works. Modulo bugs. In time I am hopeful Atila will start to have more of C++ headers working too. https://run.dlang.io/is/JlH3Th Cool! Can we now deprecate and eventually jettison C/C++ bindings from druntime, please? No, because dpp is new, not commonly used, and I think only works with DMD. It might make sense to split those bindings off into their own git repo, separate from the compiled parts of druntime though.
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 02:39:23 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote: Cool! Can we now deprecate and eventually jettison C/C++ bindings from druntime, please? And drop completion call tips etc at the same time...
Re: Dpp on run.dlang.io
On Saturday, 4 August 2018 at 01:27:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Thanks to Seb and Atila it is now very easy to show a D program just #includeing C headers. If just works. Modulo bugs. In time I am hopeful Atila will start to have more of C++ headers working too. https://run.dlang.io/is/JlH3Th Cool! Can we now deprecate and eventually jettison C/C++ bindings from druntime, please?
