Re: [tdf-discuss] [Hackfest] Ohio Linux Fest
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 7:13 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 15:36 -0400, drew wrote: Just a quick note. Have sent off the formal request to the OHLF organizers..will keep folks posted as specifics firm up. Hi, Quick note. Exchanged a few emails with one of the other organizers of the show. No final yes - but looks good. One slight change is looking likely - moving this from Friday the 9th to Saturday the 10th. I think that would be a plus. //drew I agree that the 10th would be better. I am not familiar with OHLF attendance, but Saturday at LFNW is by far the big day. There have been some Friday events, but they are not so well attended. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Hackfest - September 9th, Ohio Linux Fest
Sounds like a good idea if there are enough people to assist with pulling it off. What is hands-on training? Training on how to use LibO apps? Or is it more in line with a hacking session? What is being certified? Carl On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:13 PM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: Howdy, Had a chance to speak with one of the organizers for the Ohio Linux fest (Columbus, Ohio, USA) regarding the possibility of holding a LibreOffice hackfest/QA session. They are quite interested and motivated to help us do this. The date would be Friday September 9th, this day is mostly used at this event for hand-on training and certification testing. As this point the show organizers are waiting to here from us regarding our interest in putting this together. Before pursuing this with them and either waisting everyones time or setting up one big FAIL I would like to see if there is interest from other community members, particularly developers, willing to help. Let me know - sooner is much better then later on this. Thanks very much, Drew Jensen -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Oracle contributes OOo Code to Apache Software Foundation'sIncubator
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Augustine Souza aesouza2...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/3/11, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: ... The LO folk left the OOo group because OOo was, in their opinion, going to be over-controlled (by Oracle). Now that this is no longer true, the LO folk don't have a case and should return to the fold. ... Nonsense. Oh, and by the way, get rid of the asinine name LibreOffice which half the world can't pronounce and which three quarters of the world doesn't understand the meaning of. More nonsense. Augustine Souza...+1 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: snip Thanks for the answer. So, we should then go with the blurb without the and can be found by searching online part. Here it is: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to LibreOffice. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. I'll post this blurb on the website list and ask that the Forums section be updated to this new blurb. Cheers Marc I like this Marc. Thank you for pulling it together. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. As the forums discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A native forums board is still under consideration. I agree Marc. I can't see into the future, but it is easy to imagine that there will be an active LibreOffice forum sometime. Easy to imagine that The Document Foundation would host it, sans ads. And that it will be the GoTo LibO forum. This will be the case increasingly as OpenOffice deteriorates (easy to imagine that too, IMO). I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of native forums board. Maybe official forum or forum sponsored by LibreOffice itself. Still under consideration may be technically accurate. I think that it would be understandable and land better with users to say something like implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO community. I don't want to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities, but the forum I use for LibO questions is Google Search. Search for openoffice forums or libreoffice forums, get more than a million results. Thus, I think that it would be effective to add something to Marc's write-up suggesting online search for solutions using either LibreOffice or OpenOffice as a qualifier. Carl This way, the user, seeking help on this page, will be informed of the outside links, informed of their solid performance in helping LO users, informed that there is no native forums at this point and informed that a forums board is still under consideration. Although quite verbose, it would inform users of the situation at this point and slow down the constant new threads about creating a native forums board. It is very clear that the forums topic is a recurring topic and that it will most likely never disappear until a native forums board is created OR until one/more of the external board adopt a name change that is more inclusive of the LibreOffice name. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 10:47 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. As the forums discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A native forums board is still under consideration. I agree Marc. I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of native forums board. Maybe official forum or forum sponsored by LibreOffice itself. Still under consideration may be technically accurate. I think that it would be understandable and land better with users to say something like implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO community. I am just keeping out of any comment on the state of forums right now. It is just too explosive an issue. So, incorporating your suggestions, the text would read: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. Does this sound more informative? Cheers Marc Yes, now only one issue... more mature is comparative, but there is no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this sentence to: These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Hi Carl Le 28/04/11 11:22 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. Does this sound more informative? Cheers Marc Yes, now only one issue... more mature is comparative, but there is no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this sentence to: These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online. Carl So this newer version: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support to LibreOffice and can be found by searching online. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. I am not quite sure what is the significance of the and can be found by searching online. Remember, the reader is already on the LibreOffice website page getting help page.[1] I am not sure if it needs this part of the sentence as it is ambiguous. Cheers Marc I'm fine if it's not there. Overly obsessive, but I'll work on getting over it B^) Carl [1] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request for Libre Office on Spoon
I didn't get too deep into Spoon, but it looks a good resource for LibreOffice users. Not that much different conceptually from Mozilla offerings. Carl On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Blake Madden bl...@spoon.net wrote: Hello, I was referred to this mailing list by Florian Effenberger of The Document Foundation. My name is Blake and I work for a company called Spoon, which offers the ability to launch desktop apps from the web with no installs. We recently received a request to add LibreOffice to the Spoon.net app library. We'd like to partner with The Document Foundation to offer LibreOffice on Spoon. In the interest of transparency and public input, Florian suggested I submit my request to this mailing list for discussion. You can see examples of Spoon powered apps at http://spoon.net/apps . For free apps and trials, Spoon is a free service, and all that is needed for distribution is written permission. Feel free to shoot me an email if you have any questions. Thanks for your time. Sincerely, Blake Madden Account Manager Spoon [Play-At-Spoon-On-White-Small] Connect your desktops to the cloud Web: spoon.nethttp://www.spoon.net/ Latest apps @spoonappshttp://twitter.com/spoonapps and games @spoongameshttp://twitter.com/spoonapps US: 877-223-3551 x1005 Int'l: 206-774-8769 Fax: 206-388-3110 1000 Dexter Avenue, 5th Floor Seattle, Washington 98109 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:06 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com: Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do you want *yet another* forum. Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem. Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed. By telling people use existing resources YOU are splitting the community: the official community that talks through the the official mailing lists and the other community that use external channels. -- What does official cooperation mean? How does a website gain official recognition? Who monitors to see if it's a forum or a knockoff? Why not just say on the official LibreOffice websites that forums can be found by searching for LibreOffice forum? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Support for Office 2003 file formats (WordML, SpreadsheetML
On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Jaime R. Garza gar...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, I don't really understand the logic behind your suggestion. You want LO to drop support for the defacto-standard file format??? I don't really see any good reason for doing such a completely strategically wrong decision. Cheers! Jaime Although MS stopped free support for MS Office 2003 some time ago, its use is still widespread. It would be a mistake for LibO to support the ill-defined, shifting OOXML and deprecate MS 2003 support. Carl On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 16:36, Peter Jentsch pj...@guineapics.de wrote: Hi, I'm currently investigating a bug with the Excel 2003 import filter (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35543). Looking closer at the filter and how much work needed to be done to improve it, and considering the fact that Office 2003 ML has been superseeded by OOXML, fixing that bug feels like flogging a dead horse. I'd rather suggest to drop Office 2003 support in LibO altogether and instead focus on improving OOXML and HTML import/export. For anybody with a large library of Office 2003 XML documents not wanting to upgrade to MS Office 2007/2010, Microsoft offers a compatibility pack that allows to open and save OOXML from MS Office 2003. What do you think? Peter -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Instant Messenger for Libre Office (serverless and open source)
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org wrote: On 2/28/11 2:22 PM, Randolph Dohm wrote: P.S. - The fact that our email address is on the public website is not an implicit authorization to write. In addition, you have sent a second message before getting any answer to the first one. As far as I am concerned, your email is blaclisted. -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation Blacklisting is sorta harsh. Maybe spank the puppy with a rolled up newspaper for the first offense. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Default font on LibO
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Nguyen Vu Hung vuhung16p...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
This question seems to be trivial and I am sorry if this is a FAQ
What is the default font used by LibO 3.3 on Ubuntu (10.04?)
How can this happen? What could be the reason on the client's side
that makes the text on LibO's font become squares?
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6irjfzkk21k/TULtPvcC91I/Di0/ahD4ZXC_Krc/s800/Selection_128.png
Fonts are set in [menu]ToolsOptions...
One reason that fonts become squares is that the default font is not
installed on the computer. It is odd that some menu choices appear
correctly.
--
Best Regards,
Nguyen Hung Vu [aka: NVH] ( in Vietnamese: Nguyễn Vũ Hưng )
vuhung16plus{remove}@gmail.dot.com , YIM: vuhung16 , Skype: vuhung16plus
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Jason Corfman jkco...@gmail.com wrote: I've been reading through this discussion (as much as possible), and there is one thing that that I don't understand. Why do we have so many people complaining about LO writing in the .docx format but nobody (that I've seen) is complaining about the .doc format? Both are Microsoft formats, but the docx format is a lot closer to being an open standard. (Notice, I said it was closer, not that it was, an open standard). At least the docx format has some released specifications (as inaccurate as they may be), the last I checked, .doc doesn't even have that. The docx format is a scam in my view (read some of the links in the original message of this thread for background on that opinion). Until MS complies fully with the open standards, the only value of docx is to subvert truly open software. This is a pattern in MS' behavior over time. I don't like that in the US, computer science in high school consists of Word and Excel training. But that's the way it is. That said, I trust in the open community environment of LibreOffice. The comments and clarifications from Italo Vignoli, Olivier Hallot, Charles-H. Schulz (apologies if I missed anyone) from The Document Foundation demonstrate a willingness to listen and guide LibO development in a reasoned fashion. Even though I don't appreciate the steps Microsoft took to get their file format approved by the standards body, the fact is that it is approved (I realize that there are nuances to that.) The Document Foundation faces a difficult task bringing an open office suite into being. I was overjoyed to hear about LibreOffice. It is a bold, risky adventure. It faces major challenges. Consequently, I defer to TDF's sensibility about this situation; I'll support whatever they decide on this issue. The final chapters on docx/OOXML have not been written. Italo's statement of a philosophy of FOR is exactly right IMHO. The fact that this email thread exists, that it allows for all manner and strength of opinion, is testimony to the strength of open source software. It also illustrates a guiding principle of TDF. To The Document Foundation, thank you. Thank you for starting this project, for listening, for creating LibO in a meritocracy. Carl Symons -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org wrote: snip The Go-oo homepage also says Going forward, the Go-oo project will be discontinued in favor of LibreOffice. Does that mean that LibreOffice is driven by Novell too? I wouldn't put in that simple words. Actually, LibreOffice is open to any developer, individual or company that whishes to contribute to our code and endeavour. On the TDF announcement we invited Oracle to join us and suggested them to offer the brand OpenOffice to TDF (later this was politely declined by Oracle). LibreOffice has many contributions of Novell engineers, as well as Oracle engineers too. But is is not an Novell product nor TDF is a Novell shop. The Next Decade Manifesto says a lot on our purpose and TDF is better described in this page: http://www.documentfoundation.org/ Please help us not to make the same mistake as OpenOffice.org did. Kind regards -- Olivier Hallot Thank you, Olivier. I clicked on the list of events link on http://www.documentfoundation.org/. There are several events listed for North America. Would TDF consider being at LinuxFest Northwest in Bellingham, 4/30 5/1? There will be an official call for papers in early January, but people can register at www.linuxfestnorthwest.org. LFNW is a true open source expo, free admission, completely run by volunteers...one of the longest running Fests in the US. If there are LibOers in the Pacific NW, please contact me off-list if you'd like to help put together a LibreOffice track. We are looking for presentations for people who are new to FOSS. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker gbpli...@gmail.com wrote: snip And if you are sent an OOXML document to edit and return then it's bad manners not to send it back in the format it was sent to you, just like it's bad manners to receive a plain text email and reply in HTML How about if I receive an HTML email and reply in plain text? If that's a faux pas, I've been a very bad boy. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Mark Preston m...@mpreston.demon.co.uk wrote: If I may inject what I hope is a little sense into this argument:- Thank you for injecting sense into what had become entirely emotional and irrational B^) A major strength of Open Office is and always was that it could read and often write documents in many proprietary formats. That strength should remain solidly a feature of Libre Office and for exactly the same reasons. When it comes to the Microsoft formats there is a significant issue with writing the formats - specifically, that even Microsoft cannot fully adhere to the standards they set. This is a major fault and it is one which Microsoft has placed into the marketplace. It leaves Libre Office with three choices when it comes to these formats. It can either:- 1. Write in the format as used by Microsoft. 2. Write in the format as specified in the ISO standard. 3. Refuse to write in the new formats at all. The problem with option 1 is that it is a strictly proprietary form which even Microsoft admits does not actually meet the open standard. It is therefore open to attacks using patent and other legislation if adopted by Libre Office. The problem with option 2 is that while it is an open standard it does not actually fully work with Microsoft Office and is therefore a pointless choice until (according to Microsoft) at least 2014. The problem with option 3 is that Libre Office would be left in the situation where its own files would need to be read by the ODF open feature in Microsoft Office, thus making Microsoft appear to be the ones making efforts to read incompatible formats. I would suggest that this is the very reason why Microsoft has taken this action with these formats. We are left, in short, with just two realistic choices. Either we reverse-engineer the OOXML as actually used and let Microsoft scream about it (as they certainly would) or we simply ignore the format for written documents and write them in the old doc format... while telling people clearly on the download website that this is because we are prevented from using the Microsoft open standard. Given the work involved in these choices, I would suggest the only realistic option is the latter one. Sincere thank you for a well-reasoned and clear analysis. Better minds than mine can decide whether or not it's complete. The idea of requesting a document in a readable format is also useful. Thanks to whoever in this monster thread suggested that. For the most part, I'm exchanging documents with acquaintances (so much for trying this trick with a recruiter who wants Word). Talking with them about file formats is simple. There's another dynamic at play here. Microsoft is facing a situation where markets with big potential are choosing open source. They have discounted MS products to near nothing to gain footholds in some of these markets. BRIC markets (as described by IMF and The Economist) are seen as up-and-coming. These countries--Brazil, Russia, India, China--are making or have already made commitments to open source. This is not good news for Microsoft. These countries represent serious market potential. If LibreOffice and other open source projects continue to operate as welcoming communities with other interests than profits and growth, then they will prosper. Some underlying principles support open source software. These principles should inform the way that this issue and others are resolved. Microsoft is obligated to do whatever it can to maximize return on investments. LibO and most other true open source projects also have stakeholders--us--who seek a different kind of return. I want quality software with a community of users who cooperate, where I can contribute and appreciate the contributions of others. Thanks again, Mark. Your message has the kind of clear thinking that I appreciate in the open source community. Carl Symons -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: On 2010/12/31 12:15 PM Carl Symons wrote: On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Paul Gresspgr...@optonline.net wrote: I checked my OOo, dev m95 (3.4), it doesn't support save as docx and 3.3 rc8 (3.3 m18) also doesn't support docx in save as. What version are you using that supports docx? From standard Kubuntu 10.10 repositories... OpenOffice.org 3.2.1 OOO320m19 (Build:9505) ooo-build 3.2.1.4, Ubuntu package 1:3.2.1-7ubuntu1 That is the Go-OO derivative. OOo downloaded from the OpenOffice.org website do not write to .docx format. Larry Until this discussion thread, I was unaware of any difference. IIRC, this version of OOo comes standard on the Kubuntu Live/Install CD, and updated through standard repositories. (The startup splash screen has the Oracle logo.) Much different from a Windows installation. Whadda mess! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Andy Brown a...@the-martin-byrd.net wrote: On Fri Dec 31 2010 10:53:16 GMT-0800 (PST) Paul Gress wrote: On 12/31/10 07:50 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: The answer to ALL this nonsense is surely this. If you receive an OOXML document, politely reply to the sender and request that they send it in another format, explaining why. And BTW, the latest Open Office ALSO supports writing to OOXML format... As I've stated previously, what version? I have installed OOo dev 3.4 (m95) and 3.3 OOo rc8 (m18) and I can't save as a docx. Paul They are using the Go-oo version so that explains it. Plain old OOo does not have the docx save as docx ability. If one reads the links in the original post they will find out why. Hint: Novell is in bed with M$. Does this mean that Go-oo is driven by Novell? The contact on go-oo.org/about has a novell.com email address. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Andy Brown a...@the-martin-byrd.net wrote: On Fri Dec 31 2010 11:17:28 GMT-0800 (PST) Carl Symons wrote: On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Andy Brown a...@the-martin-byrd.net wrote: On Fri Dec 31 2010 10:53:16 GMT-0800 (PST) Paul Gress wrote: On 12/31/10 07:50 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: The answer to ALL this nonsense is surely this. If you receive an OOXML document, politely reply to the sender and request that they send it in another format, explaining why. And BTW, the latest Open Office ALSO supports writing to OOXML format... As I've stated previously, what version? I have installed OOo dev 3.4 (m95) and 3.3 OOo rc8 (m18) and I can't save as a docx. Paul They are using the Go-oo version so that explains it. Plain old OOo does not have the docx save as docx ability. If one reads the links in the original post they will find out why. Hint: Novell is in bed with M$. Does this mean that Go-oo is driven by Novell? The contact on go-oo.org/about has a novell.com email address. Yep. Go back to the first message in this thread and follow the links. Very eye opening. Andy You're right, some interesting reading there and on the links. The Go-oo homepage also says Going forward, the Go-oo project will be discontinued in favor of LibreOffice. Does that mean that LibreOffice is driven by Novell too? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Andy Brown a...@the-martin-byrd.net wrote: On Fri Dec 31 2010 11:45:46 GMT-0800 (PST) Carl Symons wrote: On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Andy Brown a...@the-martin-byrd.net wrote: Yep. Go back to the first message in this thread and follow the links. Very eye opening. Andy You're right, some interesting reading there and on the links. The Go-oo homepage also says Going forward, the Go-oo project will be discontinued in favor of LibreOffice. Does that mean that LibreOffice is driven by Novell too? What do you think? Andy Good question...especially as thinking sometimes gets me in trouble. Not being privy to the Novell sale goings-on, I don't know how the Novell/Microsoft arrangement unfolded, how much or what of the agreements (reported on the Groklaw link, first post) between MS and Novell are still in place, or who would be bound by them. Based on what I've read and the actions of people associated with The Document Foundation, I think that they are operating from true open source principles. Further, I think that the structures put in place around LibreOffice support an open source community. So, pretty much not knowing what I'm talking about, I think that LibreOffice is a valuable project worth using, supporting, caring about. I appreciate that the LO founders jumped off into the unknown with it. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
I support Larry's position. Carl Symons On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: I will not support or use LibreOffice until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file format. There is absolutely no need to write in this proprietary format. To do so is contrary to the principle of using ODF and open source formats. See the following: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49t=2493p=169740#p169507 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101219121621828 Unless this changes I will strongly advocate in the support groups I participate the people stay with OpenOffice.org and not switch to LibreOffice. -- _ Larry I. Gusaas -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Gordon Burgess-Parker gbpli...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/12/10 17:27, Larry Gusaas wrote: I will not support or use LibreOffice until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file format. There is absolutely no need to write in this proprietary format. To do so is contrary to the principle of using ODF and open source formats. See the following: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49t=2493p=169740#p169507 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101219121621828 Unless this changes I will strongly advocate in the support groups I participate the people stay with OpenOffice.org and not switch to LibreOffice. OOXML will spread anyway because MS Office 2007 and 2010 use this format by default. Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid MS may create documents in OOXML by default. LibO can read them too. Larry Gusaas' original point was to avoid helping MS with this anti-open scheme. LibO should not help MS ...spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file format... In other words, make it so that LibO can _read_ OOXML documents, but not _write/save as_ this format. Enable LibO to _write_ in MS' proprietary .doc format, but not their fake open format. It is not open. The intent of this fake file format is to damage open software applications. It is similar to what they did with web standards, their own special Java, their own special C++. MS bribed their way into getting OOXML accepted as an ISO open standard. Truly open applications shouldn't go along with this scam. MS has suffered very little for their bad behavior. Even MS Office users (prior to 2007) have had trouble with this docx fraud. Read the links in Larry Gusaas' original message in this thread. This is what the open community is up against. We don't have to go along with it. By the way, there is nothing inherently wrong with what MS is doing here. The U.S. system rewards corporations that flirt with the boundaries of legality. The Standards Committee went along with this, and the U.S. hapless regulatory system can't/won't come to the rescue. It is up to the open community to deal with it. Don't make it possible for an open application to write in a file format that seeks to damage it. Carl Symons -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Steven Shelton ste...@sheltonlegal.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2010 12:27 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: I will not support or use LibreOffice until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file format. There is absolutely no need to write in this proprietary format. To do so is contrary to the principle of using ODF and open source formats. On the other hand . . . isn't that doing exactly what MS does? Do two wrongs make a right? No that is not what MS does. MS reads writes in proprietary formats. They do not support open source formats. LibO should read any format and have the ability to write in proprietary formats. It should not write in proprietary formats masquerading as open formats. LibO should not go along with MS' chicanery. LibO is not engaging in deceptive practices. I thought the idea behind this particular office suite was to make any file accessible to the extent possible. That's why I use it. Regardless of what LibO does, MS is going to continue to use OOXML, and if the open source suites don't support it, then they are shooting themselves in the foot and essentially doing MS's bidding by ensuring that people who want to exchange files in that format have to buy MS products. - -- Steven Shelton Any file format would still be accessible to read. If someone sends you a docx file, you will be able to open it. You can send a .doc (no x; no OOXML) file back to to them; they will be able to read it with their MS application. By sending a .docx file, the only thing accomplished is that MS has weakened open source. People can still exchange files in MS formats. The other user will still be able to use their MS applications. Not allowing docx _write_ ensures that MS nefarious scheme has been weakened. Other than that, no effect. If the LibO community doesn't take a stand on this issue, who else will? Simply put, MS is doing false advertising. Do you think that the FTC is gonna do anything about it? Not a prayer. MS has their cover with the Standards Committee decision. And how likely is it that some U.S. CongressCritter would allow the FTC to take action anyway? Carl Symons -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:14 PM, BRM bm_witn...@yahoo.com wrote: several thread entries truncated I will not support or use LibreOffice until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file format. There is absolutely no need to write in this proprietary format. To do so is contrary to the principle of using ODF and open source formats. See the following: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49t=2493p=169740#p169507 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101219121621828 ; Unless this changes I will strongly advocate in the support groups I participate the people stay with OpenOffice.org and not switch to LibreOffice. One minor point here...OOo also supports writing to docx format. Perhaps LibO and all other Open Source projects - and perhaps anyone supporting ODF for that matter - should treat OOXML like Microsoft treats ODF and other formats - as third party as possible. In other words, read support should be something that users must enable; Save support should not be possible - it must be converted to either an older MS format (e.g. doc, xls) or ODF. We need to force MS to support ODF - as others have pointed out ODF is quickly becoming the world standard at least at the government level - which means in a few years most organizations that support governments will need to support ODF too, and a few years after that organizations that support those organizations, and so forth. MS has lost the file format battle to ODF - it's just time before OOXML (especially) and their legacy formats are gone. As another writer has pointed out, forcing MS in these ways is self-defeating. MS is not going to be forced in any direction. MS managers are going to fulfill their legal obligation...make money, enrich investors. LibO TDF do not have this requirement. Attempts to make things difficult for MS will really only make things difficult for those people who are required to use MS products. Many of those users don't have a choice. It is not appropriate to bruise users in order to teach MS a lesson...a lesson that they probably won't learn anyway. A key point here needs amplification. As a USA citizen (even in Washington State, up the road from Redmond) and an open source community participant, my view is probably warped...I think that MS has gone over the line of propriety many times with almost no adverse consequence. They operate as a de facto monopoly. The US regulatory agencies have done little to curb this anti-social behavior. To people who live in another countries, I can only imagine how this behavior appears. Surveys and anecdotes indicate that computer users in other countries than the USA report software to be a sovereignty issue. LibO has an international scope. Governments (Russia recently for example) are moving to LibO and other open source applications to remove themselves from the MS hegemony. Reading a range of formats and offering the ability to save in a range of formats is generous and supportive of the little person user. Going along with MS' efforts to destroy the open document format does not, in the end, support the little person user. MS has a near monopoly; they use it to the greatest extent possible. The ultimate result of unethical monopoly behavior is that the monopolist's products drive other products out. There is no valid reason for aiding MS' efforts to damage open source. The idea of LibO/etc reading OOXML pushes the issue - just like MS did to so many other formats to get people to convert to their formats. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, no? No, just because MS does it doesn't make it right. They are using their market power unfairly. If LibreOffice focuses on serving users generously, then _reading_ OOXML documents fits. Writing or saving as OOXML only damages open source applications; there is no benefit to users (as long as documents can be saved in a legitimate way). OOXML is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Of course, all functionality should be dually advertised - with explanations as to why. Ben P.S. I am not advocating vengeance - just equal and fair play. P.P.S BTW, Office 2007 and later often get set to use the legacy formats by default as many organizations don't use OOXML if they have an organizational standard. It's only those that don't that continue using the defaults. When somebody buys a new version of Office, their default save format is docx. I've worked with less sophisticated users who get a new computer and new Office to work from home. They can't understand why their teachers (running earlier Office versions) can't open their file. This is a bad deal that MS has foisted on people. It is not necessary to make them pay for this bad behavior...it wouldn't make much difference. But we shouldn't be accomplices to their crime. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Do not support writing to OOXML format
Thank you Olivier for jumping in on this as one of the TDF founders. And thank you for helping to make LibreOffice happen. More below... On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org wrote: HI Em 30-12-2010 18:41, Larry Gusaas escreveu: On 2010/12/30 2:19 PM Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: OOXML will spread anyway because MS Office 2007 and 2010 use this format by default. Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid Yes you can do something about it. Don't enable writing in that format. Use PDF's for communicating. If a MS user needs to be able to modify a document, use .doc format. There is no need to use .docx format. MS Office 2008 and 2011 can still read .doc files. The thing is, *you can* prevent LibreOffice/OOo from writing in proprietary format. This requires a configuration in one of the xcu/xcs config files. Happy new year -- Olivier Hallot If it is this easy to disable selected formats, I ask that the TDF Steering Committee take the suggestions in this conversation thread into consideration. Larry Gusaas has cited some sources (in the thread starter) that suggest that Microsoft is again (ab)using their near-monopoly market position to subvert openness. While there's no need for the TDF to police or punish Microsoft's behavior, there are strong reasons for the LibreOffice community to stand for and protect the open nature of LibO applications and their file formats. There is no reason to support writing/saving as docx/OOXML except to go along with Microsoft's anti-open fraud and deception. Carl Symons -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [website][drupal] The Drupal website development update - December 2010
Thanks to this group for all the work. After working on a Drupal site for a F/OSS Fest in the U.S., I appreciate how much work this can be. Carl On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Michael Wheatland mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote: I thought it was about time to share some of the progress that the Drupal website development team has made since the last update. You can view the progress of the site at www.libreofficeaustralia.org (Note that international pages have not yet been setup) I would like to express my thanks to everyone who has been contributing to the Drupal site development so far, the development of the workflows and behind the scenes systems is fantastic. Since the last update we have: Put together a temporary theme (So people can get a feel for the site) Created a video support section, where authorised people can submit externally hosted tutorial videos Refined some of the forums systems (Still working on the mailing list type functionality) Created a governance system whereby SC members can propose agendas and submit meeting minutes The system automatically displays info on the next upcoming meeting from proposed agendas and you can play minutes recordings without downloading the file Setup a facebook support page where anyone can ask questions. We are currently working on ways for two way communication with FB and other social networks. In the process of creating an interactive FAQ section Creating the concept for the brainstorm system - This is a big undertaking and needs to be planned carefully for integration with other systems Interactive Project Teams now have their own forums and announcement areas (restricted posting to team members only) There are many other facets of work which I will not go into right now, but suffice to say that I am very proud of the work that the Drupal Website Development Team is doing. We will soon have more contact with the project teams to refine and revise the work we have implemented to suit their UI and workflow needs. The main area which we will concentrate on after the new year will be internationalisation and working with the native language teams to adapt our website design to suit their needs and incorporate suggestions from those teams across all languages. Again, a huge thankyou to all of those who have been involved with the development so far. There is still a lot of development to go for the resulting community site ,I encourage you to get more involved (time permitting) now, or after LibreOffice 3.3 has been released into the wild. Michael Wheatland -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] opening big chinese docx file cause LO crash many times.
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Jih-Yao Lin jih...@gmail.com wrote: the chinese big file is about 300kb, and when i change the content and save it, LO crash. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** That sounds like what happens to me nearly every time I use Microsoft products. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Steven Shelton ste...@sheltonlegal.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/7/2010 11:40 AM, Eduardo Moreno wrote: El 07/12/10 10:20, Samuel Mehrbrodt escribió: Today there was an announcement that KOffice got a new name (Calligra) and they also renamed some of the Applications. KWord became Words, KSpread became Tables and KPresenter was renamed to Stages. The KOffice name changes were _necessary_ for organizational reasons. The changes--names and more--provoked some valuable dynamics amongst the entire Calligra team. One minor change--KPresenter was renamed Stage (singular). Taken together, the Calligra application names communicate some interesting perspectives on what the applications do. In the case of LibreOffice, changing the names of applications would be an unnecessary handicap. Some part of the value of the names is the continuity with OpenOffice. I like the idea of an OOo fork that is driven by an independent, free team rather than a greedy megalomaniac. I was wondering whether such a name change has been considered for the LibreOffice Applications. I like the names of the applications. I do, too, and I think they are consistent, descriptive (what the heck does stages mean?), and well-known throughout the community of users. I don't see a need to change simply for the sake of change. - -- Steven Shelton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkz+ZboACgkQXUonIzCvpdNNwACfXbpcEixZeC89qjR8iw0wzkLq mPAAnit0ijubFx0a8Tlt8IVBjk3dTGUY =rW61 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: A better idea for a download package.
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:10 PM, leif leiflod...@gmail.com wrote: Den 30-11-2010 11:43, plino skrev: The point here is that OOo has a small installer with 140Mb (no Java, and only English, Spanish and French dictionaries). Why is LO going in the opposite direction with 299 and 466Mb??? Agree. This is a problem I think that an English only version of LibreOffice and then separate Language Packs (10-40Mb) which include the translation for the interface and dictionaries, spelling, etc is the best option. No no no no no no! If you think all people on this planet are native English speaking you are wrong. Please. We have discussed this so many times that I don't believe we still are. English installer + native lang-pack is a no-go! Nobody said that everyone is native English speaking. I promise you that you speak English orders of magnitude better than I speak whatever your native language is. The problem is that there is a core of functionality that all languages can use, along with the need for application language localized to users - the more the merrier. English has become the lingua franca of the Web, whatever the cause and whatever the effect. If LibO ships in one language with optional language packs, then what language do you suggest? If LibO ships in all possible languages, then what do you suggest for people on a 56kbps connection? LibreOffice is an international project - not an English one that happens to be translated. /Leif Lodahl Representing 500.000 users who are *not* native English perhaps representing far fewer than that. You are probably not representing people who have no problem getting a fine program in whatever language along with a language packs in their own language. It's gonna be a challenge getting liftoff with the basic LibreOffice capability. Why take on changing a fundamental aspect of the Web in addition? IMO, this attitude will result in no LibreOffice and English still spoken on the Web. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Vision/Mission
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: Hi! This only saw a little bit of discussion on the marketing list (after the first draft was met with silence here). I like the interpretation, that there is not much to anything objectionable or to add, better than the alternatives, so I went on and placed the newest version on: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mission Actually, I would really like to have a better definition of what is being addressed with a so called office suite. What's the thing that ties the package together? -- Thorsten Wilms I use LibreOffice, but I don't use an office productivity solution (cp'd from Mission). What's needed is a phrase that accurately and succinctly provides a conceptual container for LibreOffice elements. Something that connects for users. To me, office productivity solution or office suite sound like overblown marketing (no offense meant by that). Kudos to Microsoft for laying claim to Office. The kleenex of business software...a generic name. Microsoft also use office suite, and have likely somewhere used something about office productivity. LibreOffice already locates the products in the Office world. It may be that people now associate Office with the kinds of tasks that LibreOffice supports. But how about a student paper, a recipe collection, and other activities that are not really done at or in an office? How about just a simple statement of the LibreOffice components? Suggestions below, none of which do the trick for me, but maybe a trigger for more creative people... LibreOffice Tools for Work Software for writing, presenting and record-keeping LibreOffice Collection LibreOffice Tools for (the) People This is a hard question, Thorsten. But it's a good one to communicate whatever sets LibO apart. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Lee Hyde anub...@gmail.com wrote: cut On 22/11/10 17:50, Rene Engelhard wrote: No, my position taken to the logical conclusion would not be that (as I think there's use cases for GUIs - I didn't say anything against them here but just mentioned that dpkg is basics - we don't need GUIs but that we need a drivers license for computers. Mandatory for everyone who wants to use PCs. The same as if you would not be allowed to drive a car if you don't know where the steering wheel or the gas pedal is, neither would you be allowed to use a gear car when you only know automatic. Learn basics, or live with people telling you that you need to look at basics before you do stuff. This is an absolutely horrendous view to hold! Such patronising views only serve to hold back the FOSS community. Strange as it may seem to you Rene, many are intimedated by the command line. They shouldn't be, but they are, and your above comments will do nothing to assuage such end-users. In fact there more likely to turn back to Windows or MacOSX than adapt to your way of thinking/doing. Some of us like our icon metaphors and prefer our double-click install to your open terminal navigate to directory dpkg -i *.deb. Also, The reason that people are required to qualify for a driving license before driving a car is that behind the wheel of a car a bad driver can easily kill a fellow road-user/cyclist/pedestrian. Now unless the 1980s film 'War Games' was an accurate representation of computing the same cannot be said of a technophobic office worker, in fact if anything they be better off staying well clear of the command line. I'm afraid that your patronizing 'get orf my land you idiot' mentality will serve only to exclude the vast majority of end-users, as it has in the past, and without a significant user base LibreOffice will degenerate into little more than a hobby project and rightly so (if it chooses to alienate the majority of computer users instead of embrace them). -- +1, Lee. It would be good if people understood the tools that they use. But they don't. And they won't. And they shouldn't have to in order to use basic communication tools such as LibreOffice. Expecting people to have a license to compute is quixotic. It is simply not going to happen. There is no good reason to make LibreOffice installation any more difficult than other run-of-the-mill applications, whatever platform is involved. Rene, (cordially) Your attitude seems more appropriate to a radical LUGr or a Microsoft plant than to a group that is trying to get some liftoff force for a F/OSS project that has a lot of potential. How is it part of the DocumentFoundation mission to change people's basic software installation habit? There are plenty enough hurdles without trying to force behavior changes artificially. What could you do to help the project succeed? Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Libreoffice 3.3 Beta 3
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote: On 2010-11-18 3:03 PM, Jesús Corrius wrote: On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote: OOo is currently at 3.3rc5 - anyone know what LibO 3.3b3 is based on? Will there be any kind of consistency between them? According to the internal version numbers, LibO 3.3b3 is based on OOo 3.3rc2. Bummer - so lots of bug-fixes in OOo 3.3rc5 that aren't in LibO 3.3b3... Anyone using it yet? Is it stable enough for daily use? -- Best regards, Charles I'm using it everyday. It's working fine. The release notes indicate where troubles may arise. They may not affect you. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
