Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G-Hokkaido live stream now...

[Toru Mori]

Hi Jeff,

I am so glad to receive your message.

12 years of huge growth of Japan OSGeo community makes me that it is the time 
to support younger generation as an individual contributor.
Iwasaki-san has strong leadership and has been one of the most active 
contributors to Japan community.
I will continue to be a part of OSGeo community with passion.

Jeff, we miss you very much and wish to have fun talk with you in the future.

Toru Mori
morit...@cocoa.plala.or.jp



> 2018/06/23 13:54、Toru Mori のメール:
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I am so glad to receive your message.
> 
> 12 years of huge growth of Japan OSGeo community makes me that it is the time 
> to support younger generation as an individual contributor.
> Iwasaki-san has strong leadership and has been one of the most active 
> contributors to Japan community.
> I will continue to be a part of OSGeo community with passion.
> 
> Jeff, we miss you very much and wish to have fun talk with you in the future.
> 
> (Sep. 12 2004 in Bangkok Thailand)
> <スクリーンショット 2018-06-23 13.50.24.png>
> 
> Cheers.
> Toru Mori
> 
> 
>> 2018/06/23 12:53、Jeff McKenna > >のメール:
>> 
>> Hi Mori-san,
>> 
>> It is me and the whole OSGeo community that must take a moment, more than a 
>> moment, and thank you directly.  I have been meaning to write here to thank 
>> you for 12 years as President of the OSGeo-JP chapter.  I noticed your 
>> message a few weeks ago to the OSGeo-JP community and it really moved me.
>> 
>> What words can I say.
>> 
>> I can see your smile.  It is that smile and focus that has helped build a 
>> fun and vibrant community, and you have indeed helped grow it into one of 
>> the largest and most successful OSGeo chapters in the world. (so amazing to 
>> see your original 2006 event website ha! http://www.seminar.jp/osgeo/ 
>>  )
>> 
>> But of course one of my favorite memories is still captured on the "About" 
>> page of the chapter website, the mola-mola group picture ha: 
>> https://www.osgeo.jp/about 
>> 
>> I am of course very happy to learn that Iwasaki-san[1] has become the new 
>> President of the OSGeo-JP chapter, and I know that he will do an amazing job 
>> as well.  (others should read his Welcome from the New President[2]
>> 
>> I can go on (we have so many stories and laughs: me so confused and lost at 
>> Narita airport the first time haso many laughs)
>> 
>> My heartfelt thank you for all of your passion and time that you have given 
>> to OSGeo. And I know you are not going anywhere, we can't lose this passion, 
>> there is no on/off switch ha.
>> 
>> It is great to talk here with you again! :)  Have a great event there and 
>> please share a kampai together with Mayumi for me - I hope to share a laugh 
>> with you all soon.
>> 
>> I bow my head to you as an utmost sign of respect.
>> 
>> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Iwasaki 
>> 
>> [2] https://www.osgeo.jp/archives/1575 
>> 
>> -jeff
>> 
>> PS. my neighbors here in Canada must think they are in Japan, hearing the 
>> FOSS4G-Hokkaido talks coming from my TV speakers all night tonight ha!  Even 
>> the 'white noise' of the chatting and networking happening between sessions, 
>> caught perfectly through the youtube stream and sent across the world to my 
>> little fishing village, calms me and makes me smile.  Community.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2018-06-22 11:31 PM, Toru Mori wrote:
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>> Thank you so much sharing our FOSS4G Hokkaido event.
 And admire the creativity and fun of the printed program: 
 https://www.instagram.com/p/BkWSHSzhb7NFZlnOdxmcCeII1i7WiSOO7zghTc0/ 
 
 
>>> Yeah, I even wouldn't expect to see that kind of excellent artwork. Very 
>>> happy to work with great team.
>>> Toru Mori OSGeo Japan
 2018/06/23 11:23、Jeff McKenna >>>  
 >>のメール:
 
 Please take a brief moment to watch and hear the passion, the spirit and 
 fun at FOSS4G-Hokkaido in Japan.  (currently a GeoDjango talk) 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvnlZJdFdX4 
 
 
 And admire the creativity and fun of the printed program: 
 https://www.instagram.com/p/BkWSHSzhb7NFZlnOdxmcCeII1i7WiSOO7zghTc0/ 
 
 
 :)
 
 -jeff
 
 
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>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss 
>> 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G-Hokkaido live stream now...

[Jeff McKenna]

Please take a brief moment to watch and hear the passion, the spirit and 
fun at FOSS4G-Hokkaido in Japan.  (currently a GeoDjango talk) 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvnlZJdFdX4


And admire the creativity and fun of the printed program: 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkWSHSzhb7NFZlnOdxmcCeII1i7WiSOO7zghTc0/


:)

-jeff




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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[María Arias de Reyna]

El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:27, Mark Iliffe  escribió:

> This would be good - learning from the Dar FOSS4G experience would be a
> good starting place for this. Unfortunately,y not many people believe that
> the laws and codes of conduct we create need to be refreshed and amended to
> keep in pace with our community.
>
> On 22 Jun 2018, at 18:18, María Arias de Reyna  wrote:
>
> That's exactly what I'm trying to do.
>
> Massive +1
>

I want to start with a common CoC for OSGeo (at least as a best practices
model) while keeping conversations with other organizations. As part of a
woman in tech association many orgs have asked for advice already. And
there's already some initiatives for creating common resources. The ones I
know, in Spanish, but that shouldn't be a blocker for a start.

Having exactly the same rules for all situations is difficult, but having a
template is feasible.


> El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter 
> escribió:
>
>> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct
>> improvements).
>>
>> Maria,
>>
>> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone
>> wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic
>> geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that
>> others are attracted to make it happen.
>>
>> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own
>> CoC, everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation"
>> which takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts,
>> which are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons
>> licenses for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
>>
>> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within
>> our CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or
>> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up
>> being called).
>>
>> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people,
>> who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and
>> attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
>>
>> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort,
>> but would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
>>
>> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
>> escribió:
>>
>>>
>>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
>>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
>>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>>>
>>
>> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
>> in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
>> better on each kind of organizations.
>>
>> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
>> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
>> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
>> have advanced, is already old.
>>
>> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into
>>> the numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based
>>> upon. I think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely
>>> on our underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address
>>> concerns as they arise.
>>>
>>
>> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.
>>
>> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
>> right now:
>>
>> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful
>> words as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.
>>
>> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is
>> one of the things that are wrong.
>>
>> This article can explain the situation better than me:
>> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>>
>> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
>> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.
>>
>>
>>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Technology Demystifier
>> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>>
>> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>>
>> ___
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>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[Mark Iliffe]

This would be good - learning from the Dar FOSS4G experience would be a good 
starting place for this. Unfortunately,y not many people believe that the laws 
and codes of conduct we create need to be refreshed and amended to keep in pace 
with our community.

> On 22 Jun 2018, at 18:18, María Arias de Reyna  wrote:
> 
That's exactly what I'm trying to do. 

Massive +1

> El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter  > escribió:
> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct 
> improvements).
> 
> Maria,
> 
> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone wishes 
> for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic geek-fairies go 
> and write it for them because the idea is so good that others are attracted 
> to make it happen.
> 
> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own CoC, 
> everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" which 
> takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts, which 
> are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons licenses for 
> data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
> 
> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within our 
> CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or 
> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up 
> being called).
> 
> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people, who 
> would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and attract a 
> commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
> 
> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, but 
> would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
> 
> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter > > escribió:
>> 
>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to 
>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is 
>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>> 
>> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that in 
>> the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works better on 
>> each kind of organizations. 
>> 
>> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I 
>> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time 
>> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we 
>> have advanced, is already old. 
>> 
>> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the 
>> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I 
>> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our 
>> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns 
>> as they arise.
>> 
>> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger. 
>> 
>> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense 
>> right now:
>> 
>> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words 
>> as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense. 
>> 
>> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is one 
>> of the things that are wrong. 
>> 
>> This article can explain the situation better than me: 
>> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you 
>> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more. 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier
> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
> 
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[María Arias de Reyna]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

El sáb., 23 jun. 2018 0:17, Cameron Shorter 
escribió:

> (Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct
> improvements).
>
> Maria,
>
> I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone
> wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic
> geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that
> others are attracted to make it happen.
>
> I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own CoC,
> everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" which
> takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of Conducts, which
> are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative Commons licenses
> for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.
>
> Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within our
> CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or
> CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end up
> being called).
>
> This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people,
> who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and
> attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.
>
> Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, but
> would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.
>
> On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
>
>
> El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
> escribió:
>
>>
>> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
>> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
>> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>>
>
> I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
> in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
> better on each kind of organizations.
>
> What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
> already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
> it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
> have advanced, is already old.
>
> There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the
>> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I
>> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our
>> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns
>> as they arise.
>>
>
> My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.
>
> Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
> right now:
>
> We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words
> as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.
>
> So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is
> one of the things that are wrong.
>
> This article can explain the situation better than me:
> https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/
>
> This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
> understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.
>
>
>>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier
> Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
>
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Improving Code-of-Conduct

[Cameron Shorter]

(Changed title to reflect this conversation is about Code-of-Conduct 
improvements).


Maria,

I'm going to float a "wish-ware" idea here. Wishware is where someone 
wishes for a piece of software (or CoC in this case) and some magic 
geek-fairies go and write it for them because the idea is so good that 
others are attracted to make it happen.


I wish that instead of every foundation and project writing their own 
CoC, everyone bands together and creates a "Code-of-Conduct Foundation" 
which takes responsibility for creating a set of standard Code of 
Conducts, which are maintained by everyone. Something like the Creative 
Commons licenses for data, or the Open Source licenses defined by OSI.


Then we don't need to spend huge amounts of time debating words within 
our CoC, all we do is decide if we go with CoC-Virtual-Forums or 
CoC-Face-Conferences, or CoC-Short-Version, or  (whatever they end 
up being called).


This would require one person initially, growing into a team of people, 
who would draw together the various authors of Codes-of-Conduct, and 
attract a commitment from a few projects to use the new Code-of-Conduct.


Maybe this might be your calling? It would be a huge amount of effort, 
but would also be hugely valuable and an excellent gift to humanity.



On 23/6/18 7:58 am, María Arias de Reyna wrote:



El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
mailto:cameron.shor...@gmail.com>> escribió:



Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting
it to create rules which consider all future opportunities for
human conflict is utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.


I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering 
that in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what 
works better on each kind of organizations.


What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. 
As I already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for 
the time it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering 
how much we have advanced, is already old.


There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put
into the numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct
was based upon. I think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as
possible, and rely on our underlying morals, ethics, and
collective intelligence to address concerns as they arise.


My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.

Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make 
sense right now:


We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful 
words as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.


So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do 
is one of the things that are wrong.


This article can explain the situation better than me: 
https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/


This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you 
understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.





--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] How to retire membership status?

[Bruce Bannerman]

Well said Cameron.

Bruce

> On 23 Jun 2018, at 07:35, Cameron Shorter  wrote:
> 
> Could each of us please be a bit more measured and forgiving when responding. 
> It seems a few words have been selected which caused more offense than 
> intended. 
> I remember Jeff McKenna once saying that he sometimes takes a step back from 
> the keyboard for a day or so before responding, and being much kinder and 
> wiser as a consequence (my memory of Jeff's words).  I can think of a few 
> emails Jeff sent where I think he did just that - his excellent email 
> describing his reasons for wanting to join the current OSGeo board comes to 
> mind.
> 
> Confrontational tit-for-tat conversation is uncomfortable and if we take it 
> too far, we will find that productive members of our community will start 
> silently dropping off.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] How to retire membership status?

[María Arias de Reyna]

El vie., 22 jun. 2018 23:35, Cameron Shorter 
escribió:

>
> Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to
> create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict is
> utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable.
>

I agree with that. But a static CoC is also impractical, considering that
in the last years CoCs have advanced a lot and now we know what works
better on each kind of organizations.

What I propose is to evolve, not to throw all the work already done. As I
already said on previous mails, the work done was outstanding for the time
it was written. Which may seem very recently but considering how much we
have advanced, is already old.

There have been a huge number of person-hours which have been put into the
> numerous Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I
> think we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our
> underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address concerns
> as they arise.
>

My plan is not to complicate it, but to make it stronger.

Let me give you one simple example of something that doesn't make sense
right now:

We cannot say dirty words, but we can harass someone using beautiful words
as long as we claim good intent. That doesn't make sense.

So, precisely one of the things you quote above as what we should do is one
of the things that are wrong.

This article can explain the situation better than me:
https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/

This would be the easiest thing to propose to change because once you
understand it, it becomes obvious. But there's more.


>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] How to retire membership status?

[Cameron Shorter]

Could each of us please be a bit more measured and forgiving when 
responding. It seems a few words have been selected which caused more 
offense than intended.


I remember Jeff McKenna once saying that he sometimes takes a step back 
from the keyboard for a day or so before responding, and being much 
kinder and wiser as a consequence (my memory of Jeff's words).  I can 
think of a few emails Jeff sent where I think he did just that - his 
excellent email describing his reasons for wanting to join the current 
OSGeo board comes to mind.


Confrontational tit-for-tat conversation is uncomfortable and if we take 
it too far, we will find that productive members of our community will 
start silently dropping off.


In response to Sara:

On 22/6/18 7:50 am, Sara wrote:

Cameron said:
> We should do our best to ensure opinions are stated respectfully, and 
encourage forgiveness when we slip up and get a bit passionate.


I'm not sure who you are referring to with this, but please do let me 
know if you mean me.


Sara, I'll discus one statement:
On 15/6/18 4:23 am, Sara wrote:
Sure, happy to explain further: my request is for information that 
LocationTech already stated publicly was "open", "has always been", 
and would be posted to OSGeo's wiki -- to actually be made open and 
posted to the wiki. If LocationTech either misspoke, lied, or changed 
their mind on that then as a community member/volunteer/sponsor I 
would like to know why. I'm not alone in this, either: I'm just 
today's squeaky wheel. :)
You have a valid concern, and a question which should be asked. But in 
asking it, consider how could Marc could answer  and save face in the 
process. Consider that there might be internal conversations within 
LocationTech where someone, maybe Marc, is trying to defend a decision 
to back OSGeo. I think this is a leading question into any response by 
Marc leading to an implication of guilt. An extreme example of this type 
of question is when a man might be asked: "Have you stopped beating your 
wife?" Both responses of "Yes" and "No" imply he has beaten his wife.
I'd hope that if you decided to reword your question, you'd avoid 
selecting the word "lied", which implies deliberate wrong doing.


Re Marc's comment:
On 15/6/18 10:00 am, Marc Vloemans wrote:

The demands made by Sara Safavi to give insight into the books are not 
appropriate. Comparable to a customer asking her employer (Planet Labs) to open 
their books to a customer.
I think this statement also went too far. I suspect Marc might have felt 
threatened by having his employer attacked and replied using a similar 
line of argument. Hopefully if he responded again he'd select different 
words.


But my bottom line is please lets empathise with the sometimes difficult 
situations that our co-volunteers are placed in, and see if we can help 
them work through them. Assume best intent, forgive, support, encourage.


Maria, re the Code-of-Conduct, I agree with Christian. Rewriting it to 
create rules which consider all future opportunities for human conflict 
is utopian, impractical and ultimately unachievable. There have been a 
huge number of person-hours which have been put into the numerous 
Code-Of-Conducts which our OSGeo Code-Of-Conduct was based upon. I think 
we keep our Code-of-Conduct as simple as possible, and rely on our 
underlying morals, ethics, and collective intelligence to address 
concerns as they arise.



On 22/6/18 10:24 pm, Christian Willmes wrote:
I do not think this is about the CoC. It is about if and how a valid 
request by a community member is handled/answered (or not).


This is a matter of transparency and openness on the one side, and 
assumed things like respect, manners, decency, or just civil good 
behavior of holding to a given word/promise.


Marc can for sure just say, I/we do not want to publish the record. If 
there are no valid understandable reasons given for not publishing 
them, even if promised otherwise, OSGeo can say, ok thanks for letting 
us know, and draw their due consequence from this.


Improving the CoC is good, but for this case it does not really 
matter, I think. Everybody can see, that there were unnecessary 
offense given and taken... how could the best CoC in the world help 
prevent this situation?



Am 22.06.2018 um 12:51 schrieb Andrea Aime:
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM, María Arias de Reyna 
mailto:dela...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi, from Marc Vloemans
[1] is just unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this community.

Personally I agree with you that it was an uncomfortable
situation easy to misinterpret. I wasn't comfortable either
reading it. (me, the person, not the board)


Agreed, I was neither.

The thing is, we still have this "assume good intent" clause on
the CoC that makes it kind of useless on the gray area.


I would suggest revising the CoC then, otherwise all the talk about 
supporting diversity is 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] How to retire membership status?

[Christian Willmes]

I do not think this is about the CoC. It is about if and how a valid 
request by a community member is handled/answered (or not).


This is a matter of transparency and openness on the one side, and 
assumed things like respect, manners, decency, or just civil good 
behavior of holding to a given word/promise.


Marc can for sure just say, I/we do not want to publish the record. If 
there are no valid understandable reasons given for not publishing them, 
even if promised otherwise, OSGeo can say, ok thanks for letting us 
know, and draw their due consequence from this.


Improving the CoC is good, but for this case it does not really matter, 
I think. Everybody can see, that there were unnecessary offense given 
and taken... how could the best CoC in the world help prevent this 
situation?



Am 22.06.2018 um 12:51 schrieb Andrea Aime:
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM, María Arias de Reyna 
mailto:dela...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi, from Marc Vloemans
[1] is just unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this community.

Personally I agree with you that it was an uncomfortable situation
easy to misinterpret. I wasn't comfortable either reading it. (me,
the person, not the board)


Agreed, I was neither.

The thing is, we still have this "assume good intent" clause on
the CoC that makes it kind of useless on the gray area.


I would suggest revising the CoC then, otherwise all the talk about 
supporting diversity is kind of done in vain imho


Cheers
Andrea


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] How to retire membership status?

[Andrea Aime]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM, María Arias de Reyna 
wrote:

> I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi, from Marc Vloemans [1] is just
>> unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this community.
>>
> Personally I agree with you that it was an uncomfortable situation easy to
> misinterpret. I wasn't comfortable either reading it. (me, the person, not
> the board)
>

Agreed, I was neither.


> The thing is, we still have this "assume good intent" clause on the CoC
> that makes it kind of useless on the gray area.
>

I would suggest revising the CoC then, otherwise all the talk about
supporting diversity is kind of done in vain imho

Cheers
Andrea
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] How to retire membership status?

[María Arias de Reyna]

This is me writing as a person, not as board. This is my personal opinion.
Again: not the board, not the president speaking. Nothing official. Just me.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Christian Willmes 
wrote:

> I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi, from Marc Vloemans [1] is just
> unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this community.
>
Personally I agree with you that it was an uncomfortable situation easy to
misinterpret. I wasn't comfortable either reading it. (me, the person, not
the board)

The thing is, we still have this "assume good intent" clause on the CoC
that makes it kind of useless on the gray area. So if Marc says that his
intention hasn't to harass Sara, that's it. He didn't do anything that is
officially bad. And I haven't asked Marc about his intentions, so I have to
assume good intent on this words. Misinterpretable? Uncomfortable? Sure,
but not wrong according to current CoC. We are all humans, everybody slips
sometimes and the wording doesn't come out as it should. And there should
be some kind of mediation system so we all learn what we did that made
other people uncomfortable so we can improve and do better next time. This,
assuming the intention was not to harass (which is what I personally
decided to believe as I don't think Marc is a bad person).

Personally I plan to review the CoC and make stronger rules to prevent
situations that can make people uncomfortable, no matter intention, no
matter wording. But as all my OSGeo work is done on my free time, I have to
wait until my holidays to do something about it. And as all my requests for
volunteers to do this have failed, I don't expect anyone to do anything
about it.

So again, please, can someone volunteer to help in improving this? It is a
huge work to do it right and if it has to be me alone working on it, I can
assure you, it won't be quick. More situations like this will happen until
I can have something final.

> I demand a public apology by Marc Vloemans for his accusations against
> Sara Safavi and the OSGeo organisation and community. Furthermore, I demand
> the OSGeo board to force LT to publish the financial records as a matter of
> course. I also suggest to discontinue any relationships with LocationTech
> if there is no public apology for this incident.
>
As a personal opinion, I think LocationTech has nothing to do with that
discussion. I haven't seen any official statement from LT in that thread
(maybe I missed it?). Furthermore, the agreement with LT for FOSS4GNA
didn't include any budget disclosure so they are not forced to show us
anything. We can change that for future events, but not for past events, if
they don't want to do it. So, personally I would leave LT out of the topic.

Going back to the main topic, this topic about being comfortable on the
community worries me (not only this specific case, but more cases I have
seen). So for sure I/we are going to move it inside the community (not only
as a task for the board, why should it be a task for the board?).

Specifically for the board actions, remember that we are volunteers and it
is difficult to make all of us be available to work at the same time. So
for this delicate issues, nobody can't expect a response from the board
that is quick. We need to think, discuss and decide. And that takes time.
We are not full time workers for OSGeo, we are volunteers. That's important
to remember.

I'm sorry for Sara and I really would prefer if she doesn't leave. But I
understand her concerns, so I can't blame her for her decision. I have done
similar things in the past in other organizations. Now I am more a fighter
and prefer to stay, but it is still her decision to fight or not. If she's
not comfortable, I can just hope to make OSGeo more friendly in the future
so she can come back.

(And, if you are wondering, no, this is not because Sara is my friend. In
fact, I barely know her. So don't try to read between lines, I would do the
same with anyone in the same situation).

Again, all this was my personal opinion. Not the board, don't blame the
board for anything here. The rest of the members don't know about this
email. This is my personal action.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] How to retire membership status?

[Christian Willmes]

I think this email, cited by Sara Safavi, from Marc Vloemans [1] is just 
unbelievable and thus unacceptable to this community.


I demand a public apology by Marc Vloemans for his accusations against 
Sara Safavi and the OSGeo organisation and community. Furthermore, I 
demand the OSGeo board to force LocationTech to publish the finacial 
records as a matter of course. I also suggest to discontinue any 
relationships with LocationTech if there is no public apology for this 
incident.


If we (OSGeo) fail to make it at clear as possible, that mafia-like 
behavior of silencing very valid requests about holding a promise for 
transparency (i.e. a core value of our community), is unacceptable and 
thus will not be accepted by any means. Otherwise THIS will become very 
toxic for OSGeo indeed.



[1] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2018-June/004774.html


Am 21.06.2018 um 23:50 schrieb Sara:

Hi Cameron, all,

I was originally trying to avoid any semblance of "stirring up 
trouble", but I think I messed up and need to be clearer.


Earlier in this thread I said:
> It's not a matter of hurtful words, though; it's no longer wanting to be affiliated with a 
community whose members make open threats to my employment. I like & 
need my job too much to continue making myself a target for that.


For the benefit of anyone on discuss@ who is not also on 
conference_dev@, I am referring to the message I replied to here:

https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2018-June/004774.html

To be excessively clear: after the above exchange, I do not feel safe 
participating further in a community which has *officers* who can 
attempt to threaten my livelihood unchallenged, simply because I 
persisted in asking a question.


As I told Jeff earlier, I'll still be out here "doing the work" but 
the OSGeo community no longer feels like a safe or welcoming place for 
me to do that from.


Cameron said:
> We should do our best to ensure opinions are stated respectfully, and 
encourage forgiveness when we slip up and get a bit passionate.


I'm not sure who you are referring to with this, but please do let me 
know if you mean me.


Regards,
Sara

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:01 PM, Cameron Shorter 
mailto:cameron.shor...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Sara,

+1 to Jeff and Maxi's words of personal support.

We are an effective community when people feel welcomed and
participate. This doesn't happen when people leave, either
silently (as is usually the case), or publicly as you have
suggested here. We should be able to hear people's opinions and
respect their right to say them. We should do our best to ensure
opinions are stated respectfully, and encourage forgiveness when
we slip up and get a bit passionate.

(We say as much in our Code of Conduct).
https://www.osgeo.org/code_of_conduct/


Warm regards, Cameron



On 21/6/18 12:26 am, Jeff McKenna wrote:

Hi Sara,

Although we haven't (yet) shared FOSS4G travels together I
have to say that I truly admire your passion and efforts, and
we share a lot of the same traits (do-ing, asking questions,
diving in, etc.)  I strongly second Maxi's words.  You are a
leader and a big part of the OSGeo community.  Much of what
you have been saying or asking I've been literally taking
notes of how we can improve.  In fact I see you taking on more
of a role and not less.  I am just speaking from the heart and
being open.

I know how the written word can be so hurtful these days (and
I don't want / but yet know that unfortunately my own words
here can be misinterpreted as taking one side versus another),
but I hope this public support shown here can give you renewed
hope and energy for the OSGeo community.

I encourage you to keep being you.

-jeff



On 2018-06-19 2:03 PM, Sara wrote:

Hello community,

Can someone point me at the relevant documentation re:
retiring current membership status? Specifically, related
to Charter membership.

I understand the processes to nominate & add new charter
members but not clear on how current charter members can
retire.

To put it another way: how to edit
https://www.osgeo.org/about/charter-members/

>?

Thanks,
Sara Safavi


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-- 
Cameron 

[OSGeo-Discuss] Fw: Call for applications: E-Learning Course on Open Data Management in Agriculture and Nutrition

[Suchith Anand]

Might be of interest to AgriGIS colleagues. Details below.


Best wishes,


Suchith


-- Forwarded message --
From: Ilkay Holt
Date: 21 June 2018 at 09:35
Subject: Call for applications: E-Learning Course on Open Data Management in 
Agriculture and Nutrition


The GODAN Action  team is pleased to 
re-open the applications for the e-Learning course on Open Data Management in 
Agriculture and Nutrition.

This e-Learning course aims to strengthen the capacity of data producers and 
data consumers to manage and use open data in agriculture and nutrition. One of 
the main objectives is for the course to be used widely within agricultural and 
nutrition knowledge networks, in different institutions.

By the end of the course, participants will be able to:

* Understand the principles and benefits of open data
* Understand ethics and responsible use of data
* Identify the steps to advocate for open data policies
* Understand how and where to find open data
* Apply techniques to data analysis and visualisation
* Recognise the necessary steps to set up an open data repository
* Define the FAIR data principles
* Understand the basics of copyright and database rights
* Apply open licenses to data

The course is open to infomediaries (including ICT workers, 
technologist-journalists, communication officers, librarians and 
extensionists), policy makers, administrators, project managers, researchers 
and scientists working in the area of agriculture, nutrition, weather and 
climate, and land data.

The course is provided in English and lasts for 4 weeks.

Call for applications - deadline - 27th June, Wednesday 12:00 GMT.
Please register at https://goo.gl/forms/p8p4Nqo90YWmJsd82
The course will run between 2 July- 27 July 2018.

More information about the course: 
http://www.godan.info/pages/open-data-management-agriculture-and-nutrition

Ilkay Holt (Ms)

Partnerships and South-South Cooperation Division (DPS)
Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO)
Viale delle terme di Caracalla
00153 Rome, Italy
http://www.fao.org






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