Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Cameron Shorter]

Hi Rahul,

I thought you might be interest to know that we've put the submission 
into the Australian government, and pointed to this blog post:


http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com.au/2018/03/what-could-open-government-learn-from.html

Warm regards, Cameron


On 7/3/18 4:08 pm, Cameron Shorter wrote:


Thanks for the feedback Rahul,

Would you mind adding your comment into the text of the document (It 
is easier for me to collate comments, and also allows other reviewers 
to see your comments).


I've provided you with review access:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.48b0gqkr8pdy


On 5/3/18 2:36 pm, Rahul Soshte wrote:

Hi Cameron,

A suggestion would be be to add the point of process of making of the 
Laws of a country(Editing the book of rules of Law governing the 
country) collaborative.By that way the Laws would be consistently and 
approriate to the changing times.For example in India,some laws made 
before independence by the British are still prevalent today and I 
presume the same has happened with any other country which was under 
foreign rule for a long time.So a collaborative law making process 
would be more better than a limited set of contributors chosen by the 
government themselves.


Regards,
Rahul Soshte



On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:57 AM, Cameron Shorter 
> wrote:


Folks,

Thanks to those of you who have reviewed the response to the
proposed Open Government National Action Plan. And I know a
number of you are planning to add more feedback this week. (In a
nutshell: The response explains Open Government needs to learn
how to collaborate as effectively as Open Source communities, and
what government needs to change to make this happen).

OSIA folks and Linux Australia Council, I'm formally requesting
that this letter be presented jointly by Open Source Industry
Australia (OSIA) and Linux Australia. What is involved in getting
this permission?

A status update:

* The Linux Journal has offered to publish a piece on this. I'll
be reaching out to other publications in the next couple of weeks
to invite them to publish too. (Suggestions of publications
welcomed).

* I've incorporated most changes suggested so far. I've had a
couple of people suggest a better introduction / exec summary -
which I'll be working on.

* I'm hoping to collate all preliminary feedback within the next
2 weeks (by ~ 16 March).

* Deadline for delivery of our response is 30 March.

Document is here:


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#



Warm regards, Cameron



On 27/2/18 8:52 am, Cameron Shorter wrote:

The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they
are going at Open Government, and I've started a draft
response. I'm really keen to make sure that this response is
well constructed because I think that if listened to,
understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge
difference to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide
- and by extension, to Open Source as well.

If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd
be very grateful. Email me directly to get review access.

(It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time
to think about how things should be reworded and consider
what is missing and should be included.)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi





-- 
Cameron Shorter

Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254


--
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Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Cameron Shorter]

Thanks for the feedback Rahul,

Would you mind adding your comment into the text of the document (It is 
easier for me to collate comments, and also allows other reviewers to 
see your comments).


I've provided you with review access:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.48b0gqkr8pdy


On 5/3/18 2:36 pm, Rahul Soshte wrote:

Hi Cameron,

A suggestion would be be to add the point of process of making of the 
Laws of a country(Editing the book of rules of Law governing the 
country) collaborative.By that way the Laws would be consistently and 
approriate to the changing times.For example in India,some laws made 
before independence by the British are still prevalent today and I 
presume the same has happened with any other country which was under 
foreign rule for a long time.So a collaborative law making process 
would be more better than a limited set of contributors chosen by the 
government  themselves.


Regards,
Rahul Soshte



On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:57 AM, Cameron Shorter 
> wrote:


Folks,

Thanks to those of you who have reviewed the response to the
proposed Open Government National Action Plan. And I know a number
of you are planning to add more feedback this week. (In a
nutshell: The response explains Open Government needs to learn how
to collaborate as effectively as Open Source communities, and what
government needs to change to make this happen).

OSIA folks and Linux Australia Council, I'm formally requesting
that this letter be presented jointly by Open Source Industry
Australia (OSIA) and Linux Australia. What is involved in getting
this permission?

A status update:

* The Linux Journal has offered to publish a piece on this. I'll
be reaching out to other publications in the next couple of weeks
to invite them to publish too. (Suggestions of publications welcomed).

* I've incorporated most changes suggested so far. I've had a
couple of people suggest a better introduction / exec summary -
which I'll be working on.

* I'm hoping to collate all preliminary feedback within the next 2
weeks (by ~ 16 March).

* Deadline for delivery of our response is 30 March.

Document is here:


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#



Warm regards, Cameron



On 27/2/18 8:52 am, Cameron Shorter wrote:

The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they
are going at Open Government, and I've started a draft
response. I'm really keen to make sure that this response is
well constructed because I think that if listened to,
understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge difference
to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - and by
extension, to Open Source as well.

If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd
be very grateful. Email me directly to get review access.

(It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to
think about how things should be reworded and consider what is
missing and should be included.)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi





-- 
Cameron Shorter

Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Discuss@lists.osgeo.org 
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss





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Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Rahul Soshte]

Hi Cameron,

A suggestion would be be to add the point of process of  making of the Laws
of a country(Editing the book of rules of Law governing the country)
collaborative.By that way the Laws would be consistently and approriate to
the changing times.For example in India,some laws made before independence
by the British are still prevalent today and I presume the same has
happened with any other country which was under foreign rule for a long
time.So a collaborative law making process would be more better than a
limited set of contributors chosen by the government  themselves.

Regards,
Rahul Soshte



On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:57 AM, Cameron Shorter 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Thanks to those of you who have reviewed the response to the proposed Open
> Government National Action Plan. And I know a number of you are planning to
> add more feedback this week. (In a nutshell: The response explains Open
> Government needs to learn how to collaborate as effectively as Open Source
> communities, and what government needs to change to make this happen).
>
> OSIA folks and Linux Australia Council, I'm formally requesting that this
> letter be presented jointly by Open Source Industry Australia (OSIA) and
> Linux Australia. What is involved in getting this permission?
>
> A status update:
>
> * The Linux Journal has offered to publish a piece on this. I'll be
> reaching out to other publications in the next couple of weeks to invite
> them to publish too. (Suggestions of publications welcomed).
>
> * I've incorporated most changes suggested so far. I've had a couple of
> people suggest a better introduction / exec summary - which I'll be working
> on.
>
> * I'm hoping to collate all preliminary feedback within the next 2 weeks
> (by ~ 16 March).
>
> * Deadline for delivery of our response is 30 March.
>
> Document is here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3
> JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#
>
> Warm regards, Cameron
>
>
>
> On 27/2/18 8:52 am, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>
>> The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they are going at
>> Open Government, and I've started a draft response. I'm really keen to make
>> sure that this response is well constructed because I think that if
>> listened to, understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge difference
>> to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - and by extension, to
>> Open Source as well.
>>
>> If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd be very
>> grateful. Email me directly to get review access.
>>
>> (It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to think
>> about how things should be reworded and consider what is missing and should
>> be included.)
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3
>> JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi
>>
>>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
> Open Technologies Consultant
>
> M +61 (0) 419 142 254
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Cameron Shorter]

Folks,

Thanks to those of you who have reviewed the response to the proposed 
Open Government National Action Plan. And I know a number of you are 
planning to add more feedback this week. (In a nutshell: The response 
explains Open Government needs to learn how to collaborate as 
effectively as Open Source communities, and what government needs to 
change to make this happen).


OSIA folks and Linux Australia Council, I'm formally requesting that 
this letter be presented jointly by Open Source Industry Australia 
(OSIA) and Linux Australia. What is involved in getting this permission?


A status update:

* The Linux Journal has offered to publish a piece on this. I'll be 
reaching out to other publications in the next couple of weeks to invite 
them to publish too. (Suggestions of publications welcomed).


* I've incorporated most changes suggested so far. I've had a couple of 
people suggest a better introduction / exec summary - which I'll be 
working on.


* I'm hoping to collate all preliminary feedback within the next 2 weeks 
(by ~ 16 March).


* Deadline for delivery of our response is 30 March.

Document is here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#

Warm regards, Cameron


On 27/2/18 8:52 am, Cameron Shorter wrote:
The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they are going 
at Open Government, and I've started a draft response. I'm really keen 
to make sure that this response is well constructed because I think 
that if listened to, understood, and acted upon, then we can make a 
huge difference to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - 
and by extension, to Open Source as well.


If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd be very 
grateful. Email me directly to get review access.


(It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to think 
about how things should be reworded and consider what is missing and 
should be included.)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi 





--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Cameron Shorter]

Thanks, you have some good ideas in here Marc.

Would you mind adding them as a comment in the document as people who 
are doing the editing can see each others comments and track changes.


I've set you up with review access to the document.

Thanks Cameron


On 27/2/18 9:28 pm, Marc Vloemans wrote:

Hi Cameron,

Great to have such comprehensive argument in writing. The deadline of 15th 
March allows me only to jot down some quick notions.

The business/market side of things is relatively underrepresented, while being 
essential for project sustainability. Could I suggest the following.

Open collaboration on eg code in/by governmental bodies requires explicit 
interaction with ‘the market’. And that is precisely where gov bodies/agencies 
usually are or feel or should be hamstrung.

This is entails some notions (some of these touched upon, but may need to be 
made more explicit);
- most gov organisations simply don’t have the tech skills in-house to 
participate on a technical level with (or instigate) Dev communities
- or capabilities to otherwise engage with communities
- these orgs have to rely on external experts; most notably service suppliers
- or build their internal expertise, which will be difficult, expensive and not 
the ‘core business’ of government
- in any case, gov bodies have to go beyond traditional supply-demand 
interactions
- while safe guarding pre-competitive behaviour
- OS foundations usually provide that environment of necessary 
vendor-neutrality (besides the elements of meritocracy etc you mention) and 
pre-comp interactions

I feel your doc would benefit from the extra angle where you address 
public-private collaboration with a particularly view as to the ‘how’. The 
‘why’ and ‘what’ of the argument depend on that. Unless the practicalities are 
addressed it is (too) easy for sceptics to just say ‘no’.

My two cents

Kind regards,
Marc Vloemans



Op 27 feb. 2018 om 00:18 heeft Dirk Frigne  het 
volgende geschreven:

Cameron,

Nice initiative.
Now it is a bit to late for me, but if you can grant me review access, I
will review and comment tommorow.

Dirk.


On 26-02-18 22:52, Cameron Shorter wrote:
The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they are going
at Open Government, and I've started a draft response. I'm really keen
to make sure that this response is well constructed because I think that
if listened to, understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge
difference to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - and by
extension, to Open Source as well.

If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd be very
grateful. Email me directly to get review access.

(It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to think
about how things should be reworded and consider what is missing and
should be included.)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi



--
Yours sincerely,


ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO @geosparc

Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
GSM: +32 495 508 799

http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com

@DFrigne
be.linkedin.com/in/frigne

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Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Marc Vloemans]

Hi Cameron,

Great to have such comprehensive argument in writing. The deadline of 15th 
March allows me only to jot down some quick notions. 

The business/market side of things is relatively underrepresented, while being 
essential for project sustainability. Could I suggest the following.

Open collaboration on eg code in/by governmental bodies requires explicit 
interaction with ‘the market’. And that is precisely where gov bodies/agencies 
usually are or feel or should be hamstrung.

This is entails some notions (some of these touched upon, but may need to be 
made more explicit);
- most gov organisations simply don’t have the tech skills in-house to 
participate on a technical level with (or instigate) Dev communities
- or capabilities to otherwise engage with communities
- these orgs have to rely on external experts; most notably service suppliers
- or build their internal expertise, which will be difficult, expensive and not 
the ‘core business’ of government 
- in any case, gov bodies have to go beyond traditional supply-demand 
interactions
- while safe guarding pre-competitive behaviour
- OS foundations usually provide that environment of necessary 
vendor-neutrality (besides the elements of meritocracy etc you mention) and 
pre-comp interactions 

I feel your doc would benefit from the extra angle where you address 
public-private collaboration with a particularly view as to the ‘how’. The 
‘why’ and ‘what’ of the argument depend on that. Unless the practicalities are 
addressed it is (too) easy for sceptics to just say ‘no’. 

My two cents

Kind regards,
Marc Vloemans


> Op 27 feb. 2018 om 00:18 heeft Dirk Frigne  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Cameron,
> 
> Nice initiative.
> Now it is a bit to late for me, but if you can grant me review access, I
> will review and comment tommorow.
> 
> Dirk.
> 
>> On 26-02-18 22:52, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>> The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they are going
>> at Open Government, and I've started a draft response. I'm really keen
>> to make sure that this response is well constructed because I think that
>> if listened to, understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge
>> difference to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - and by
>> extension, to Open Source as well.
>> 
>> If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd be very
>> grateful. Email me directly to get review access.
>> 
>> (It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to think
>> about how things should be reworded and consider what is missing and
>> should be included.)
>> 
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> 
> ir. Dirk Frigne
> CEO @geosparc
> 
> Geosparc n.v.
> Brugsesteenweg 587
> B-9030 Ghent
> Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
> GSM: +32 495 508 799
> 
> http://www.geomajas.org
> http://www.geosparc.com
> 
> @DFrigne
> be.linkedin.com/in/frigne
> 
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Dirk Frigne]

Cameron,

Nice initiative.
Now it is a bit to late for me, but if you can grant me review access, I
will review and comment tommorow.

Dirk.

On 26-02-18 22:52, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they are going
> at Open Government, and I've started a draft response. I'm really keen
> to make sure that this response is well constructed because I think that
> if listened to, understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge
> difference to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - and by
> extension, to Open Source as well.
> 
> If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd be very
> grateful. Email me directly to get review access.
> 
> (It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to think
> about how things should be reworded and consider what is missing and
> should be included.)
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi
> 
> 

-- 
Yours sincerely,


ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO @geosparc

Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
GSM: +32 495 508 799

http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com

@DFrigne
be.linkedin.com/in/frigne

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[OSGeo-Discuss] What Open Government can learn from us Open Source folks

[Cameron Shorter]

The Australian Government has asked for feedback on how they are going 
at Open Government, and I've started a draft response. I'm really keen 
to make sure that this response is well constructed because I think that 
if listened to, understood, and acted upon, then we can make a huge 
difference to the effectiveness of Open Government worldwide - and by 
extension, to Open Source as well.


If you have a chance to read and provide review comments, I'd be very 
grateful. Email me directly to get review access.


(It will take ~ 10 minutes to read. Longer if you take time to think 
about how things should be reworded and consider what is missing and 
should be included.)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNdh4_A_cIpaHqLRFOgpvAY3JSo0Ueraam39UHFOGHs/edit#heading=h.5zu4u4o3l7zi

--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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