Re: GSoC 2018

[Asif Saif Uddin]

yes, there wasn't anyone selected.

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 3:24:50 AM UTC+6, makina wrote:
>
> Hello, 
>
> Django doesn't have any projects in 2018. 
> https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2018/organizations/5080222944722944/
> Does it mean there were no quality applicants in 2018?
>
> Thank you
>

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Re: Queries about the project idea Improving the Less Popular Backends

[Asif Saif Uddin]

You are too late to propose the proposal for review. Now it's your call fix 
as many good issues related to your proposal so that the core mentors can 
gauge your ability to be selected for gsoc this year. if you could 
contribute some good patches you might be a very good candidate for gsoc 
next year with your contribution history and might get early helps to 
prepare a solid proposal.

good luck!

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 10:05:23 PM UTC+6, Dingfan Zhao wrote:
>
> Hello, 
>
> Thanks for your reply! I am working on the proposal now since the deadline 
> is quite tight. I finished the proposal just now and hope you could give me 
> some advice on it. 
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tlGWuf_uBS-1GvxwMoSyyh5xUmB4b5gVg4vRFGaMDZg/edit
>
> I will start contributing to some issues during these days to convince 
> other contributors in the community, but maybe after the deadline for 
> submitting the proposal since the deadline is just 2 hours later :)
>
> Regards,
> Dingfan
>
> On Tuesday, 9 April 2019 09:57:52 UTC+8, Asif Saif Uddin wrote:
>>
>> yes, you can select some relevant issues which help to fix a much bigger 
>> problem. so try to understand the bigger ideas coming out of some of the 
>> related issues. deadline is very close. it would be better to have the 
>> draft submitted here and fix at least one or two related issues to convince 
>> the core team and the community that ypu are capable to complete what you 
>> are proposing.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Asif
>>
>> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 5:24:06 PM UTC+6, Dingfan Zhao wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello guys, 
>>>
>>> I am year 4 students in Singapore and I would like to contribute to 
>>> Django in GSoC this summer. The project idea that I am interested in is 
>>> Improving the less popular backends. However, the project description is 
>>> kind of vague and I am not able to catch the exact requirements for this 
>>> project. 
>>>
>>> In my view, the key for this project is to build some features for less 
>>> popular backends to make it support equal operations with other backends. I 
>>> appreciate if someone can give me some advice. 
>>>
>>> For example, I did a search in Django raising ticket page and I set up 
>>> some filters: 
>>> https://code.djangoproject.com/query?status=new&component=Database+layer+(models%2C+ORM)&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=component&col=version&desc=1&order=id
>>>
>>> May I understand it like I would select some issues from these tickets 
>>> and solve them in order to fulfill this project idea? 
>>>
>>> Any advice is appreciated in advance! Thanks a lot. 
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>

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GSoC 2018

[makina]

Hello, 

Django doesn't have any projects in 
2018. 
https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2018/organizations/5080222944722944/
Does it mean there were no quality applicants in 2018?

Thank you

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Re: Queries about the project idea Improving the Less Popular Backends

[Dingfan Zhao]

Hello, 

Thanks for your reply! I am working on the proposal now since the deadline 
is quite tight. I finished the proposal just now and hope you could give me 
some advice on it. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tlGWuf_uBS-1GvxwMoSyyh5xUmB4b5gVg4vRFGaMDZg/edit

I will start contributing to some issues during these days to convince 
other contributors in the community, but maybe after the deadline for 
submitting the proposal since the deadline is just 2 hours later :)

Regards,
Dingfan

On Tuesday, 9 April 2019 09:57:52 UTC+8, Asif Saif Uddin wrote:
>
> yes, you can select some relevant issues which help to fix a much bigger 
> problem. so try to understand the bigger ideas coming out of some of the 
> related issues. deadline is very close. it would be better to have the 
> draft submitted here and fix at least one or two related issues to convince 
> the core team and the community that ypu are capable to complete what you 
> are proposing.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Asif
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 5:24:06 PM UTC+6, Dingfan Zhao wrote:
>>
>> Hello guys, 
>>
>> I am year 4 students in Singapore and I would like to contribute to 
>> Django in GSoC this summer. The project idea that I am interested in is 
>> Improving the less popular backends. However, the project description is 
>> kind of vague and I am not able to catch the exact requirements for this 
>> project. 
>>
>> In my view, the key for this project is to build some features for less 
>> popular backends to make it support equal operations with other backends. I 
>> appreciate if someone can give me some advice. 
>>
>> For example, I did a search in Django raising ticket page and I set up 
>> some filters: 
>> https://code.djangoproject.com/query?status=new&component=Database+layer+(models%2C+ORM)&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=component&col=version&desc=1&order=id
>>
>> May I understand it like I would select some issues from these tickets 
>> and solve them in order to fulfill this project idea? 
>>
>> Any advice is appreciated in advance! Thanks a lot. 
>>
>> Regards
>>
>

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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Mariusz Felisiak]

I prepared PoC: https://github.com/django/django/pull/11190.

W dniu wtorek, 9 kwietnia 2019 15:25:24 UTC+2 użytkownik Mariusz Felisiak 
napisał:
>
> Sorry for technical description.
>
> W dniu wtorek, 9 kwietnia 2019 15:24:59 UTC+2 użytkownik Mariusz Felisiak 
> napisał:
>>
>> We can also remove *LANGUAGES_BIDI *from *global_settings.py*, check if 
>> *LANGUAGES_BIDI 
>> *is overridden in *Settings.__init__()* and if not then set it to a 
>> subset of RTL languages from *LANGUAGES*. This should solve all issues, 
>> IMO.
>>
>

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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Mariusz Felisiak]

Sorry for technical description.

W dniu wtorek, 9 kwietnia 2019 15:24:59 UTC+2 użytkownik Mariusz Felisiak 
napisał:
>
> We can also remove *LANGUAGES_BIDI *from *global_settings.py*, check if 
> *LANGUAGES_BIDI 
> *is overridden in *Settings.__init__()* and if not then set it to a 
> subset of RTL languages from *LANGUAGES*. This should solve all issues, 
> IMO.
>

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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Mariusz Felisiak]

We can also remove *LANGUAGES_BIDI *from *global_settings.py*, check if 
*LANGUAGES_BIDI 
*is overridden in *Settings.__init__()* and if not then set it to a subset 
of RTL languages from *LANGUAGES*. This should solve all issues, IMO.

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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Matthias Kestenholz]

Checking that entries in LANGUAGES and LANGUAGES_BIDI are well formed
certainly makes sense! I wouldn't want to back out this part of the change.

All settings come with a certain risk of inconsistencies or with unexpected
behavior.

That being said, this particular change just seems so patronizing. As a
team we have launched literally hundreds of projects based on Django (some
of them using RTL languages) and released dozens of Django libraries and
have never had a problem related to LANGUAGES_BIDI. And now, just because
there's a possibility of an inconsistency I'll have to add the same line to
each project when the whole thing can be avoided in the first place by
keeping the meaning of LANGUAGES and LANGUAGES_BIDI orthogonal and just not
introducing this dependency.

Matthias


On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 2:19 PM Tobias McNulty 
wrote:

> Having thought about this a little more, I may have found in answer to my
> own question. :-)
>
> The reasoning would seem to be that, by overriding LANGUAGES but not
> LANGUAGES_BIDI, you risk introducing an inconsistency between the language
> code *format* in these two settings (a la LANGUAGE_CODE and the original
> ticket that got this started). If that's correct, that seems fair to me
> (and worth keeping this check), along with an update to the docs to clarify
> this dependency and why it exists.
>
> Tobias
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 8:06 AM Adam Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Other ideas:
>>
>>- Bypass the check in the case that LANGAUGES_BIDI is the same as the
>>one in global_settings - probably not the best idea, but would stop all
>>projects having to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] to avoid the check
>>- Change startproject so that LANGUAGES_BIDI is set up as the empty
>>list - removes some "included batteries" but helps users make a more
>>informed choice?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 12:27, Adam Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Matthias,
>>>
>>> I can see why this is annoying. At least the resolution is easy by
>>> setting LANGUAGES_BIDI = []. I do agree that it should be in the release
>>> notes, although it's quite hard to miss a new system check's output when
>>> upgrading.
>>>
>>> I see it was only at the last review of the PR (
>>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/11060 ) that the check in
>>> question was upgraded from warning W005 to E005. I can see why a warning
>>> would make sense, but at the same time a warning is still a message to the
>>> user and resolved the same way, either by setting LANGUAGES_BIDI or adding
>>> it to SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS.
>>>
>>> I think I'm against removing the check, but pro anything that can make
>>> it easier for users such as yourself - perhaps something as simple as a
>>> suggestion in the error message to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] if you're not
>>> using RTL languages?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:22, Matthias Kestenholz  wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
 https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
 introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
 through the system checks framework.

 Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
 languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
 LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
 verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
 LANGUAGES as well.

 It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any
 benefits and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides
 LANGUAGES to now add a new setting to their project to override
 LANGUAGES_BIDI as well with unclear benefits.

 Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used
 for membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem
 in keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py
 in there even though some of those languages may not be available on a
 given installation anyway.

 The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed
 as wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
 generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
 ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.

 Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?

 Thanks,
 Matthias

 * At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or
 something.

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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Tobias McNulty]

Having thought about this a little more, I may have found in answer to my
own question. :-)

The reasoning would seem to be that, by overriding LANGUAGES but not
LANGUAGES_BIDI, you risk introducing an inconsistency between the language
code *format* in these two settings (a la LANGUAGE_CODE and the original
ticket that got this started). If that's correct, that seems fair to me
(and worth keeping this check), along with an update to the docs to clarify
this dependency and why it exists.

Tobias

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 8:06 AM Adam Johnson  wrote:

> Other ideas:
>
>- Bypass the check in the case that LANGAUGES_BIDI is the same as the
>one in global_settings - probably not the best idea, but would stop all
>projects having to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] to avoid the check
>- Change startproject so that LANGUAGES_BIDI is set up as the empty
>list - removes some "included batteries" but helps users make a more
>informed choice?
>
>
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 12:27, Adam Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Hi Matthias,
>>
>> I can see why this is annoying. At least the resolution is easy by
>> setting LANGUAGES_BIDI = []. I do agree that it should be in the release
>> notes, although it's quite hard to miss a new system check's output when
>> upgrading.
>>
>> I see it was only at the last review of the PR (
>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/11060 ) that the check in question
>> was upgraded from warning W005 to E005. I can see why a warning would make
>> sense, but at the same time a warning is still a message to the user and
>> resolved the same way, either by setting LANGUAGES_BIDI or adding it to
>> SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS.
>>
>> I think I'm against removing the check, but pro anything that can make it
>> easier for users such as yourself - perhaps something as simple as a
>> suggestion in the error message to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] if you're not
>> using RTL languages?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:22, Matthias Kestenholz  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
>>> https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
>>> introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
>>> through the system checks framework.
>>>
>>> Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
>>> languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
>>> LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
>>> verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
>>> LANGUAGES as well.
>>>
>>> It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any
>>> benefits and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides
>>> LANGUAGES to now add a new setting to their project to override
>>> LANGUAGES_BIDI as well with unclear benefits.
>>>
>>> Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used
>>> for membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem
>>> in keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py
>>> in there even though some of those languages may not be available on a
>>> given installation anyway.
>>>
>>> The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed as
>>> wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
>>> generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
>>> ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.
>>>
>>> Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Matthias
>>>
>>> * At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or
>>> something.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CANvPqgAy_HytsvmnOpPtrCP_969QhoncJaPUe%3D6pN-VYWMVcjA%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adam
>>
>
>
> --
> Adam
>
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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Adam Johnson]

Other ideas:

   - Bypass the check in the case that LANGAUGES_BIDI is the same as the
   one in global_settings - probably not the best idea, but would stop all
   projects having to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] to avoid the check
   - Change startproject so that LANGUAGES_BIDI is set up as the empty list
   - removes some "included batteries" but helps users make a more informed
   choice?


On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 12:27, Adam Johnson  wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
>
> I can see why this is annoying. At least the resolution is easy by setting
> LANGUAGES_BIDI = []. I do agree that it should be in the release notes,
> although it's quite hard to miss a new system check's output when upgrading.
>
> I see it was only at the last review of the PR (
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/11060 ) that the check in question
> was upgraded from warning W005 to E005. I can see why a warning would make
> sense, but at the same time a warning is still a message to the user and
> resolved the same way, either by setting LANGUAGES_BIDI or adding it to
> SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS.
>
> I think I'm against removing the check, but pro anything that can make it
> easier for users such as yourself - perhaps something as simple as a
> suggestion in the error message to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] if you're not
> using RTL languages?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
>
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:22, Matthias Kestenholz  wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
>> https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
>> introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
>> through the system checks framework.
>>
>> Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
>> languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
>> LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
>> verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
>> LANGUAGES as well.
>>
>> It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any benefits
>> and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides LANGUAGES to
>> now add a new setting to their project to override LANGUAGES_BIDI as well
>> with unclear benefits.
>>
>> Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used
>> for membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem
>> in keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py
>> in there even though some of those languages may not be available on a
>> given installation anyway.
>>
>> The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed as
>> wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
>> generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
>> ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.
>>
>> Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matthias
>>
>> * At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or
>> something.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
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>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CANvPqgAy_HytsvmnOpPtrCP_969QhoncJaPUe%3D6pN-VYWMVcjA%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> --
> Adam
>


-- 
Adam

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Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Tobias McNulty]

I am curious, what is the reasoning behind disallowing LANGUAGES_BIDI from
containing languages not in LANGUAGES in the first place?

If as Matthias says it is never iterated over, I'm unclear what problems
this might cause, though I agree the fix is simple enough...

At least perhaps the last paragraph in the description for the
LANGUAGES_BIDI setting (that is currently identical to a paragraph in the
LANGUAGES description, "Generally, the default value should suffice. Only
set this setting if you want to restrict language selection to a subset of
the Django-provided languages.") could be modified to clarify this
reasoning and its relationship to LANGUAGES? (What exactly this would say
is not obvious to me at the moment...)

Tobias


On Tue, Apr 9, 2019, 7:28 AM Adam Johnson  wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
>
> I can see why this is annoying. At least the resolution is easy by setting
> LANGUAGES_BIDI = []. I do agree that it should be in the release notes,
> although it's quite hard to miss a new system check's output when upgrading.
>
> I see it was only at the last review of the PR (
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/11060 ) that the check in question
> was upgraded from warning W005 to E005. I can see why a warning would make
> sense, but at the same time a warning is still a message to the user and
> resolved the same way, either by setting LANGUAGES_BIDI or adding it to
> SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS.
>
> I think I'm against removing the check, but pro anything that can make it
> easier for users such as yourself - perhaps something as simple as a
> suggestion in the error message to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] if you're not
> using RTL languages?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
>
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:22, Matthias Kestenholz  wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
>> https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
>> introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
>> through the system checks framework.
>>
>> Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
>> languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
>> LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
>> verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
>> LANGUAGES as well.
>>
>> It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any benefits
>> and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides LANGUAGES to
>> now add a new setting to their project to override LANGUAGES_BIDI as well
>> with unclear benefits.
>>
>> Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used
>> for membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem
>> in keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py
>> in there even though some of those languages may not be available on a
>> given installation anyway.
>>
>> The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed as
>> wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
>> generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
>> ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.
>>
>> Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matthias
>>
>> * At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or
>> something.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CANvPqgAy_HytsvmnOpPtrCP_969QhoncJaPUe%3D6pN-VYWMVcjA%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> --
> Adam
>
> --
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> 

Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Matthias Kestenholz]

Hi Adam

Thanks for your answer. I'll try to convince you (and others) that the
error in question does not make sense, not even when downgraded to a
warning.

There are system checks which provide great value such as
django.contrib.admin checking whether templates, context processors etc.
are configured correctly because it would be very confusing if the admin
interface would not show messages after all.

There are other checks such as this one which do not protect the code from
going wrong but that simply impose additional requirements to Django users.

I've reread the discussion in the pull request and haven't found a single
reason why it is a good thing to start requiring that LANGUAGES_BIDI is
specified explicitly. What is the rationale for requiring an explicit
LANGUAGES_BIDI when all you want to do is restrict the overall list of
languages for a single project (or the testsuite of many Django libraries
for that matter)?

After all, the set of bidirectional languages does not change just because
some of them aren't active inside a given project. And there is no
ambiguity when inheriting LANGUAGES_BIDI from django.conf.global_settings
and only overriding LANGUAGES.

Thanks,
Matthias

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:28 PM Adam Johnson  wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
>
> I can see why this is annoying. At least the resolution is easy by setting
> LANGUAGES_BIDI = []. I do agree that it should be in the release notes,
> although it's quite hard to miss a new system check's output when upgrading.
>
> I see it was only at the last review of the PR (
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/11060 ) that the check in question
> was upgraded from warning W005 to E005. I can see why a warning would make
> sense, but at the same time a warning is still a message to the user and
> resolved the same way, either by setting LANGUAGES_BIDI or adding it to
> SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS.
>
> I think I'm against removing the check, but pro anything that can make it
> easier for users such as yourself - perhaps something as simple as a
> suggestion in the error message to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] if you're not
> using RTL languages?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
>
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:22, Matthias Kestenholz  wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
>> https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
>> introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
>> through the system checks framework.
>>
>> Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
>> languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
>> LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
>> verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
>> LANGUAGES as well.
>>
>> It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any benefits
>> and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides LANGUAGES to
>> now add a new setting to their project to override LANGUAGES_BIDI as well
>> with unclear benefits.
>>
>> Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used
>> for membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem
>> in keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py
>> in there even though some of those languages may not be available on a
>> given installation anyway.
>>
>> The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed as
>> wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
>> generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
>> ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.
>>
>> Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matthias
>>
>> * At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or
>> something.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CANvPqgAy_HytsvmnOpPtrCP_969QhoncJaPUe%3D6pN-VYWMVcjA%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> --
> Adam
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@google

Re: translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Adam Johnson]

Hi Matthias,

I can see why this is annoying. At least the resolution is easy by setting
LANGUAGES_BIDI = []. I do agree that it should be in the release notes,
although it's quite hard to miss a new system check's output when upgrading.

I see it was only at the last review of the PR (
https://github.com/django/django/pull/11060 ) that the check in question
was upgraded from warning W005 to E005. I can see why a warning would make
sense, but at the same time a warning is still a message to the user and
resolved the same way, either by setting LANGUAGES_BIDI or adding it to
SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS.

I think I'm against removing the check, but pro anything that can make it
easier for users such as yourself - perhaps something as simple as a
suggestion in the error message to set LANGUAGES_BIDI = [] if you're not
using RTL languages?

Thanks,

Adam

On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:22, Matthias Kestenholz  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
> https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
> introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
> through the system checks framework.
>
> Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
> languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
> LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
> verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
> LANGUAGES as well.
>
> It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any benefits
> and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides LANGUAGES to
> now add a new setting to their project to override LANGUAGES_BIDI as well
> with unclear benefits.
>
> Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used for
> membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem in
> keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py in
> there even though some of those languages may not be available on a given
> installation anyway.
>
> The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed as
> wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
> generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
> ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.
>
> Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?
>
> Thanks,
> Matthias
>
> * At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or something.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CANvPqgAy_HytsvmnOpPtrCP_969QhoncJaPUe%3D6pN-VYWMVcjA%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Adam

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translation.E005 / Should LANGUAGES_BIDI be a strict subset of LANGUAGES?

[Matthias Kestenholz]

Hello everyone,

The resolution of https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30241 in
https://github.com/django/django/commit/4400d8296d268f5a8523cd02ddc33b12219b2535
introduced a new and in my opinion backwards incompatible requirement
through the system checks framework.

Previously*, overriding LANGUAGES to restrict the list of available
languages on a Django site worked. Now it's also necessary to override
LANGUAGES_BIDI because there is a new system check (translation.E005) which
verifies that there are no language codes in LANGUAGES_BIDI not in
LANGUAGES as well.

It is my strong opinion that enforcing this does not provide any benefits
and has the downside of forcing almost everyone who overrides LANGUAGES to
now add a new setting to their project to override LANGUAGES_BIDI as well
with unclear benefits.

Strictness is a good thing, but since LANGUAGES_BIDI is only ever used for
membership checking (and never iterated over) I don't see the problem in
keeping the default language codes from django/conf/global_settings.py in
there even though some of those languages may not be available on a given
installation anyway.

The report in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30342 was closed as
wontfix that's why I'm writing to the list. Also, since system checks
generally aren't mentioned in the release notes users will not be informed
ahead of time about this change when reading the release notes.

Anyone has any opinions to offer on this?

Thanks,
Matthias

* At least as long as I'm using Django, probably for 11 years or something.

-- 
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To view this discussion on the web visit 
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.