Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting John Morris (jmor...@beau.org): > Nope, that negates one of the principle reasons to use an initramfs in > the first place. You assume the stock kernel can see the drive where > you intend to put this new partition; one of the big drivers of initrd > in the first place was exotic

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Sat, 2017-06-24 at 11:08 +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > Anyway I think there's a simple method to live without the > initramfs. Everything which is done from initramfs could be done the > same way from a disk partition, which might make it easier to debug: > have a /os directory

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Sat, 2017-06-24 at 11:04 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > Just teleport into the datacenter on the other side of the planet, or the > office building where your after-hours key card doesn't work because all > cards were cancelled following the alleged burglary last week*, or do some > other

Re: [DNG] Post Office: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > Does Post Office work properly with IMAP? http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Mail/muas.html says yes. (But I don't know if I'd trust the guy who maintains that Web page. He's Scandinavian, and my Tante Bjorg sternly warned me to never trust them.) >

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > I did offer to discuss the case with companies and their counsel, > under NDA, without charge. In addition, I just added to the article > parenthetically that I am willing to discuss why fair-use does not > apply, but would not complicate that article

[DNG] Post Office: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:46:31 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Hypothetical #2. I find a copy of a very nice, fast, good-looking X11 > (FLTK-based) MUA by Pim van Riezen named Post Office, that used to be > freely distributed on the Internet but has vanished after van Riezen >

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 7:00 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > > > Well, it's interesting. I notice you just summarily declare that the > patchsets cannot be fair use, without even mentioning the applicable > four-factor conceptual test framework -- your right, of course, if you >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 01:19:50AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > On 27.06.2017 11:06, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > >..there's hope, it would take holding the systemd fanbois > >to the same standards as the 'clowns' at grsecurity... >

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > I did publish a warning about Grsecurity, here > > . Well, it's interesting. I notice you just summarily declare that the

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Actually, I have this from RMS. Nothing from Eben: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > I am not trying to study the GRsecurity case because (0) it's > complicated, and it would take a lot of time to think about, (1) the > FSF has no say in the matter (it

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Go ahead and ask them. I think you'll be surprised. On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > > > Actually, I'm writing a recommendation that customers stay away from > > grsecurity because they could become contributory

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

I did publish a warning about Grsecurity, here . On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > Actually, I'm writing a recommendation that customers stay away from > grsecurity because they could become contributory infringers. I have no > doubt that it's actionable, and the _lawyers_ I work with aren't nearly in > agreement with you. Well,

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > ..aye, I saw your cynical interpretation, that getting-paid bit was > the other/implied half of the "cred" complaint I saw at Groklaw. FWIW, I was a Groklaw reader, too (though only occasionally a poster), and was deeply appreciating of PJ & friends'

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Actually, I'm writing a recommendation that customers stay away from grsecurity because they could become contributory infringers. I have no doubt that it's actionable, and the _lawyers_ I work with aren't nearly in agreement with you. On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Rick Moen

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:06:36 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170628000636.gc28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..I may have missed their complaint in todays research, the common > > "cred" or "credit" compaint I saw in my 11 years at Groklaw, was the > >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (enrico.weig...@gr13.net): > Entirely different scenario. They don't own the whole kernel - they just > picked it from the net, changed it and redistribute the changed version. > This is exactly where the GPL's viral effect is supposed to kick in. OK, the

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:01:32 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170628000131.gb28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > > > It doesn't, unless you have understanding customers who just don't > > redistribute because they want you to stay in business. But > > grsecurity

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 28.06.2017 01:46, Rick Moen wrote: OK, let's say I just wrote a codebase and declare it to be under GPLv2 licence terms. I haven't yet put it up for download, but am willing to give you a source code instance for €10. Please explain to me why I may not offer to sell you that codebase.

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > It doesn't, unless you have understanding customers who just don't > redistribute because they want you to stay in business. But grsecurity > doesn't work that way, it is alleged. It is alleged that they tell > customers that if they redistribute, they

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:21:53 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170627232153.gx28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..nope, I stated my understanding of the GPLs and my understanding > > of their complaint. > > I for one am utterly mystified by your suggestion

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:35:00 +0200, metux IT consult wrote in message <626f5214-191c-1f90-b806-652ae892c...@gr13.net>: > On 28.06.2017 01:24, Rick Moen wrote: > > Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (enrico.weig...@gr13.net): > > > >> wait a second - these grsecurity folks are *selling*

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult < enrico.weig...@gr13.net> wrote: > > By selling, I mean, you'll first have to pay before you get the code. > But anybody republish it at will (as long as complying to GPL), so > how can that business model work ? It doesn't,

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (enrico.weig...@gr13.net): > By selling, I mean, you'll first have to pay before you get the code. > But anybody republish it at will (as long as complying to GPL), so > how can that business model work ? OK, let's say I just wrote a codebase and declare

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:19:50 +0200, metux IT consult wrote in message : > On 27.06.2017 11:06, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > ..there's hope, it would take holding the systemd fanbois > > to the same standards as the 'clowns' at grsecurity... > >

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > Because grsecurity.net's stated policy (which could also be called > "threat") has created a chilling effect upon such redistribution. IMO that > is enough to be actionable. Show me the caselaw, please. 'Chilling effect' is indeed a concept in law, but

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 28.06.2017 01:24, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (enrico.weig...@gr13.net): wait a second - these grsecurity folks are *selling* kernel patches ? how is that compatible w/ the gpl ? Please explain to me why I may not offer to sell a codebase subject to GPLv[23]

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:33:35 -0700, Bruce wrote in message : > On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 2:27 PM, para...@dyne.org > wrote: > > > > > There is very little ground to actually make up a court case. > > Nobody has

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:04:54 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170627230454.gd11...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > > > So, what you are saying is that you are permitted to redistribute > > the latest grsecurity patch, but that the company will as a penalty > >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (enrico.weig...@gr13.net): > wait a second - these grsecurity folks are *selling* kernel patches ? > how is that compatible w/ the gpl ? Please explain to me why I may not offer to sell a codebase subject to GPLv[23] licence terms. Please note that FSF

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > ..nope, I stated my understanding of the GPLs and my understanding > of their complaint. I for one am utterly mystified by your suggestion that the grsecurity/PaX team have been attempting to require 'BSD-style cred fly-by screens' (failure of such a

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 27.06.2017 11:06, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..there's hope, it would take holding the systemd fanbois to the same standards as the 'clowns' at grsecurity... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/26/linus_torvalds_slams_pure_garbage_from_clowns_at_grsecurity/ wait a second - these grsecurity folks

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:43:29 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170627204329.gw28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..the GPLs does not require showing BSD-style cred fly-by screens, > > FWIW, the grsecurity/PaX people had no such aspirations. You seem to > have

Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:26:46 -0700, Bruce wrote in message

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > So, what you are saying is that you are permitted to redistribute the > latest grsecurity patch, but that the company will as a penalty disallow > you from further being their customer or receiving any additional versions > of the patch. And this might

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 170627-21:47+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:09:49 +, Miroslav wrote in message > <20170627120949.wyhvph3uxrrpxhtr@gdOv>: > > > On 170627-11:06+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:56:24 -0400, zap wrote in message > > >

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 2:27 PM, para...@dyne.org wrote: > > There is very little ground to actually make up a court case. Nobody has > been blocked yet, and nobody has publicly (re)distributed the non-public > patches. Because grsecurity.net's stated policy (which could also

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Bruce Perens wrote: >> On IRC it was mentioned that you will lose access if >> you redistribute, but you are in no way restricted from redistributing. >So, what you are saying is that you are permitted to redistribute the >latest grsecurity patch, but that

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

> On IRC it was mentioned that you will lose access if you redistribute, but you are in no way restricted from redistributing. So, what you are saying is that you are permitted to redistribute the latest grsecurity patch, but that the company will as a penalty disallow you from further being

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Bruce Perens wrote: >> You are allowed to redistribute the patch legally, but you shall >> simply lose access to future patches. One could call it blackmail, >> another would call it a business move. >Do you work for [1]grsecurity.net or do you have first

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

> You are allowed to redistribute the patch legally, but you shall simply > lose access to future patches. One could call it blackmail, another > would call it a business move. Do you work for grsecurity.net or do you have first knowledge of this fact? I think a pretty good case could be made

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

This is rather a violation of moral. Better said, I think we got used to the fact that we always receive libre software for free (gratis). You are allowed to redistribute the patch legally, but you shall simply lose access to future patches. One could call it blackmail, another would call it a

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > The allegation is that customers receive a patch to GPL software and that > the company makes it clear to the customers that this patch must not be > redistributed. What does 'make clear' amount to, though? This all sounds extremely hazy and a bit

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > OK, I don't see much reason to ask Google to help with *that.* > > There hasn't been a litigated case, that I know of, of transformative fair > use as applied to Free Software. For leading cases, you'd naturally look to non-software ones, which is a

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Bruce Perens wrote: >I've been getting credible reports that [1]grsecurity.net is >infringing the kernel by preventing customers from redistributing the >GPL code for their patch. Can you provide proof? In no way are they violating the GPL. It might be a

Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.

I don't have a list. If you'd like to help with software patents, that would be nice, as none of the organizations that purportedly support Linux do. Linux Foundation is an infringer's club. Open Invention Network protects patents from Linux, not the other way around. On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:50:50 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170627165050.gu28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > > Heads, which is one of the marvelous thing that happened in FOSS > > lately, and it happened in the Devuan realm of OSes, remains, on top > > of completely free,

Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 10:57:33 -0700, Bruce wrote in message : > Steve, > > Well, I've fought bigger dragons than this and won. ..ok, link to your list of Microsoft's alleged 235 patents they said we infringed upon in Utah

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:09:49 +, Miroslav wrote in message <20170627120949.wyhvph3uxrrpxhtr@gdOv>: > On 170627-11:06+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:56:24 -0400, zap wrote in message > > <505f058b-0fe3-16b2-157d-352d4d56b...@posteo.de>: > > > > > how does one remove

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

OK, I don't see much reason to ask Google to help with *that.* There hasn't been a litigated case, that I know of, of transformative fair use as applied to Free Software. The closest so far is *Oracle v. Google, *in which Oracle claimed that Google's use could not be fair use because it was *not

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Bruce Perens (br...@perens.com): > I've been getting credible reports that grsecurity.net is infringing the > kernel by preventing customers from redistributing the GPL code for their > patch. They would be infringing the copyright on the Linux kernel if it were establishable as a

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

I've been getting credible reports that grsecurity.net is infringing the kernel by preventing customers from redistributing the GPL code for their patch. What is it we want Google to do? They usually listen when I ask... Thanks Bruce On Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 09:51 Rick Moen

Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.

Steve, Well, I've fought bigger dragons than this and won. And while there are paid developers working on SystemD, I have not yet seen technical evidence that they spend any time at all on obfuscation. APIs change, but for technical purposes, and they don't all change at once. Real programmers

Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.

Am 2017-06-27 16:02, schrieb Steve Litt: I know if I were a real programmer... real programmers can write Fortran programs in ANY language ;-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Miroslav Rovis wrote: > Heads, which is one of the marvelous thing that happened in FOSS > lately, and it happened in the Devuan realm of OSes, remains, on top > of completely free, secured with grsecurity, and not via the Schmoog > underhanded ripoff of grsecurity code... Point of information:

Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:30:39 -0700 Bruce Perens wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Hendrik Boom > wrote: > > The point is that that proposed libsystemd0 would *not* be an init > > system, and it would still enable software that was written

Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Please pay attention to what Linus actually wrote. Linus complained about the patches, not the grsecurity code. I know (from other threads) that he's not in love with the code either, but what he actually complained about is the patches. Linus wants patches with clean version history, and he

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:56:24 -0400, zap wrote in message <505f058b-0fe3-16b2-157d-352d4d56b...@posteo.de>: > how does one remove that package without removing anything else? > > > I mean how do you remove it from being depended on by nearly every bit > of software... > > > I want to install

Re: [DNG] trinity on devuan, re: dng v33/56/ #2

Hi! I suggest you try this aproach and forget about q4os: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DevuanInstall Nik Am Montag, 26. Juni 2017 schrieb Gary Olzeke: > @Dr. (Nik) Kepp asked for my sources. list -- well its on a disconnected > drive. > But I only had the 3 Jessie main repositories. I had