Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 at 00:22:40 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" > wrote: >> IBM has done a variety of bad things, but that doesn't mean OpenPOWER >> isn't a really good one. > > * That the presence of a BMC chip on POWER means it

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > No, I just pointed out that the fact that IBM does indeed put hardware > and software remote-control devices inside it's chips is an established > and documented truth. [...] Noted without comment:

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 at 23:55:08 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: > On 09/08/2017 07:18 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 at 00:22:40 -0400 >> "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: >> >>> On 09/07/2017 02:18 PM, Rick Moen wrote: >>> Quoting

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/08/2017 07:18 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote: On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 at 00:22:40 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: On 09/07/2017 02:18 PM, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): I also find a bit questionable your going around attempting to tarnish the

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 at 00:22:40 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: > On 09/07/2017 02:18 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > >> Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): >> I also find a bit questionable your going around attempting to tarnish the reputation of someone with a real

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 23:16:08 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170908061608.gc9...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): > > > I apologize - I should have done that in the first place instead of > > resorting to name calling. > > I thank you. > > (In fairness, Mr. Selli

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 08.09.2017 09:53, Erik Christiansen wrote: No, one of the variety of CPUs implemented on FPGAs, so not so curious at all. Some FPGAs contain RAM areas, improving the gate efficiency of e.g. a CPU implementation. No, that's just boring ;-) I'm thinking of generating VHDL from fw rules and

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 07.09.17 17:34, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > On 07.09.2017 16:12, Erik Christiansen wrote: > > > If the firewall is on a FPGA, then we know what every gate is doing, as > > we have the VHDL source for it. > > An purely FPGA-based firewall (w/o an cpu in it), specifically >

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): > >I also find a bit questionable your going around attempting to tarnish > >the reputation of someone with a real name, while concealing your own. > Criticism isn't allowed? This is of course nothing like what I said. > I dislike when people deal with

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 05:25:47PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > IMHO, even this discussion isn't strictly related to devuan That's why we're talking on dng not on devuan-dev. The latter is for development of Devuan specifically. The former came with the slogan "campfire for

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 07.09.2017 16:12, Erik Christiansen wrote: If the firewall is on a FPGA, then we know what every gate is doing, as we have the VHDL source for it. An purely FPGA-based firewall (w/o an cpu in it), specifically synthesized for a given ruleset seems an very interesting approach. Anyone here

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 07.09.2017 16:42, Rowland Penny wrote: On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:32:42 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 11:51:46PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: I have tried asking nicely WILL YOU SHUTUP!!! hey, please calm down. IMHO, even this discussion isn't

[DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Quote: "Please take this discussion somewhere else, it has NOTHING to do with Devuan" This discussion has taught me that Intel CPUs from 2008 onwards also come with GRATIS but QUESTIONABLE functionalities, that many including myself, frown upon. If there are non-risky hacks that readers can use

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:32:42 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 11:51:46PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: I have tried asking nicely WILL YOU SHUTUP!!! I don't care about your drivel, it has nothing directly to do with Devuan Rowland

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 11:51:46PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 07.09.17 13:32, Adam Borowski wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 09:17:20PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > > > If our hosts cannot be trusted not to phone home to folk wearing dark > > > glasses, then would it not suffice

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:12:02 +1000 Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 07.09.17 14:05, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > ROMB is the ROM Bypass and that too is builtin the PCH chip: > > Erik Excuse me, but can you lot not take a hint ??? Please take this discussion somewhere

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 07.09.17 14:05, Alessandro Selli wrote: > ROMB is the ROM Bypass and that too is builtin the PCH chip: > > Loading starts with the ROM program, which is contained in the > built-in PCH read-only memory. Unfortunately, no way to read or > rewrite this memory is known to the

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 07.09.17 13:32, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 09:17:20PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > > If our hosts cannot be trusted not to phone home to folk wearing dark > > glasses, then would it not suffice to employ a simple embedded host with > > a small die, such as an ARM, e.g.

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 at 13:41:25 +0200 Alessandro Selli wrote: > On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 at 21:17:20 +1000 > Erik Christiansen wrote: > > > The notion of an extra embedded CPU or two on big Intel chips is not > > difficult to credit, but where is

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Le 07/09/2017 à 10:48, taii...@gmx.com a écrit : On 09/07/2017 04:30 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 17:12:27 -0400 zap wrote: Agreed! Talos is at least *LIBRE!* No, it ain't: https://blog.rapid7.com/2013/07/02/a-penetration-testers-guide-to-ipmi/

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 at 21:17:20 +1000 Erik Christiansen wrote: > The notion of an extra embedded CPU or two on big Intel chips is not > difficult to credit, but where is the postulated entire minix OS loaded > from? It's in the report by the Positive Technologies team:

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 09:17:20PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > If our hosts cannot be trusted not to phone home to folk wearing dark > glasses, then would it not suffice to employ a simple embedded host with > a small die, such as an ARM, e.g. Beaglebone Black, as a firewall? It's not hard

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

The notion of an extra embedded CPU or two on big Intel chips is not difficult to credit, but where is the postulated entire minix OS loaded from? If our hosts cannot be trusted not to phone home to folk wearing dark glasses, then would it not suffice to employ a simple embedded host with a small

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 at 06:29:59 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: > On 09/07/2017 05:01 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > >> Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): >> >> [speaking to Alessandro Selli] >> >>> You are constantly defending them and snubbing your nose at superior >>> products

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/07/2017 05:01 AM, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): [speaking to Alessandro Selli] You are constantly defending them and snubbing your nose at superior products so it is obvious you work for purism. Can I ask for a bit more civility, please? Mr. Selli is a

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 at 04:48:43 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: > On 09/07/2017 04:30 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >> On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 17:12:27 -0400 >> zap wrote: >> >>> Agreed! Talos is at least *LIBRE!* >>No, it ain't: >>

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Quoting taii...@gmx.com (taii...@gmx.com): [speaking to Alessandro Selli] > You are constantly defending them and snubbing your nose at superior > products so it is obvious you work for purism. Can I ask for a bit more civility, please? Mr. Selli is a fairly passionate free software person,

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/07/2017 04:30 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 17:12:27 -0400 zap wrote: Agreed! Talos is at least *LIBRE!* No, it ain't: https://blog.rapid7.com/2013/07/02/a-penetration-testers-guide-to-ipmi/ "BMCs and the IPMI Protocol

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 at 10:30:39 +0200 Alessandro Selli wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 17:12:27 -0400 > zap wrote: > > > Agreed! Talos is at least *LIBRE!* > > No, it ain't: >

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 17:12:27 -0400 zap wrote: > Agreed! Talos is at least *LIBRE!* No, it ain't: https://blog.rapid7.com/2013/07/02/a-penetration-testers-guide-to-ipmi/ "BMCs and the IPMI Protocol Baseboard Management Controllers (BMCs) are a type of

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 06/09/2017 at 19:15, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > On 09/06/2017 06:36 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >>The steep price. >> > Uhh the laptops you guys are selling now cost just as much as TALOS... "you" whom? I am not a seller. > only they aren't owner controlled. That you know of. I

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/06/2017 01:15 PM, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > On 09/06/2017 06:36 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >>    The steep price. >> > Uhh the laptops you guys are selling now cost just as much as > TALOS...only they aren't owner controlled. > ___ Agreed!

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/06/2017 06:36 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: The steep price. Uhh the laptops you guys are selling now cost just as much as TALOS...only they aren't owner controlled. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 15:58:17 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Alessandro Selli writes: > > What makes you think IBM is more trustable than Intel? Who, other than > > IBM, produces Power8 CPUs? Are the blueprints publicly available? > > You're just raising the bar

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Alessandro Selli writes: What makes you think IBM is more trustable than Intel? Who, other than IBM, produces Power8 CPUs? Are the blueprints publicly available? You're just raising the bar to the point where noone can possibly build an acceptable product. (Not just you, Alessandro, most

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 12:36:59PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 at 11:53:46 -0400 > "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: > > > > I take it you work for purismraptor has made a legitimately owner > > controlled computer - whats stopping you? > > The steep

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 at 20:14:04 +0200 mdn wrote: > Hello, > To make some precisions: > -The "High Assurance Platform" belongs to a trusted platform program > linked to the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA). A graphics-rich > presentation describing the program can

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 at 11:53:46 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" wrote: > On 09/05/2017 06:34 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > >> On Sun, 3 Sep 2017 at 07:32:10 -0400 >> zap wrote: >> >>> On 09/03/2017 05:26 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: On 01/09/2017 at 20:36, zap

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 at 16:05:21 +0200 Edward Bartolo wrote: > So, it means, without my knowledge as a computer user, I have a HIDDEN > OPERATING SYSTEM running under my nose. It's much more than that: in the CPU and PCH chip you have 3 (THREE!) cpus derived from vintage 486

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 06.09.2017 03:14, mdn wrote: If I understood it correctly, they managed to boot an modified firmware on that ME core, so it theoretically should be possible to run an entirely own firmware on it. Maybe barebox or plan9. They did manage to boot a modified firmware but there's still

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Le 06/09/2017 04:13, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult a écrit : > On 05.09.2017 18:14, mdn wrote: > > > > If I understood it correctly, they managed to boot an modified firmware > on that ME core, so it theoretically should be possible to run an > entirely own firmware on it. Maybe barebox or

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 05.09.2017 18:14, mdn wrote: If I understood it correctly, they managed to boot an modified firmware on that ME core, so it theoretically should be possible to run an entirely own firmware on it. Maybe barebox or plan9. Having a serial console (maybe via some free gpios ?) would be a

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/05/2017 03:00 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: so it looks as it that legitimately owner-controlled computer project based on the POWER processor has died. Anyone know better? Is is still continuing in some form? That was TALOS 1 (POWER8), the new hotness is TALOS 2 (POWER9). They are waiting

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Le 05/09/2017 21:00, Hendrik Boom a écrit : > On Tue, Sep 05, 2017 at 11:53:46AM -0400, taii...@gmx.com wrote: >> >> I take it you work for purismraptor has made a legitimately owner >> controlled computer - whats stopping you? (besides obsession over intel x86) >> It is possible to make a

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Tue, Sep 05, 2017 at 11:53:46AM -0400, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > > I take it you work for purismraptor has made a legitimately owner > controlled computer - whats stopping you? (besides obsession over intel x86) > It is possible to make a POWER laptop with todays lower wattage POWER cpu's.

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Hello, To make some precisions: -The "High Assurance Platform" belongs to a trusted platform program linked to the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA). A graphics-rich presentation describing the program can be found here. http://fm.csl.sri.com/LAW/2009/dobry-law09-HAP-Challenges.pdf note: the

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

El 05/09/17 a les 16:05, Edward Bartolo ha escrit: > Hiding a complete OS integrated on the main processor's silicon die, > and to add insult to injury, complete with a dedicated processor, > filesystem and all! This is the point that makes me doubt about those theories. I'm shure this type of

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

taii...@gmx.com writes: I take it you work for purismraptor has made a legitimately owner controlled computer - whats stopping you? Is that an actual owner-controlled computer, or is it controlled by whoever is at the keyboard? Or is it controlled by all the people who have a certain

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Well gee shows over folks we can go home as the good people at the NSA have made a nice little feature to shut off that thing all the kids are complaining about. Hypothetical backdoor team "Aw shucks they got us!" "Damn they're using a non-intel NIC - what will we do now?" If you can't

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/05/2017 06:34 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: On Sun, 3 Sep 2017 at 07:32:10 -0400 zap wrote: On 09/03/2017 05:26 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: On 01/09/2017 at 20:36, zap wrote: I doubt it will be owner controlled, as their laptops aren't - they still haven't even

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On 09/05/2017 11:08 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Am Dienstag, 5. September 2017 schrieb Edward Bartolo: >> So, it means, without my knowledge as a computer user, I have a HIDDEN >> OPERATING SYSTEM running under my nose. Securitiwise, it is like >> running MS Windows notwithstanding I am

Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

Am Dienstag, 5. September 2017 schrieb Edward Bartolo: > So, it means, without my knowledge as a computer user, I have a HIDDEN > OPERATING SYSTEM running under my nose. Securitiwise, it is like > running MS Windows notwithstanding I am running Devuan ASCII! > > With all this, a tinfoil hat is

[DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

So, it means, without my knowledge as a computer user, I have a HIDDEN OPERATING SYSTEM running under my nose. Securitiwise, it is like running MS Windows notwithstanding I am running Devuan ASCII! With all this, a tinfoil hat is completely useless. I need an armoured hat with the same thickness

[DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

On Sun, 3 Sep 2017 at 07:32:10 -0400 zap wrote: > > On 09/03/2017 05:26 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: >> On 01/09/2017 at 20:36, zap wrote: I doubt it will be owner controlled, as their laptops aren't - they still haven't even gotten a blobbed version of coreboot