Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Hi, On 04/14/2017 01:13 PM, Jaromil wrote: What is GUIX ? distro-agnostic packaging system done right (aka using a functional language) https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Invoking-guix-package.html ciao Somebody talked about GUIX in the past (here or in the

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 2017-04-14 05:44, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: On 14.04.2017 12:05, Jaromil wrote: can't look deeper into it now, but well, we can consider it at least as a reference for people preparing and fixing packages. Can we aggree on some common naming scheme ? Perhaps these pages

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 14.04.2017 13:16, Jaromil wrote: > because people think different :^) apologies for my 'done right' btw, > was teasing and yea I'm an opinionated lambdaboy :^) I haven't yet understood what the exact problem to solve, and how that actually supposed to work. CMIIW, but to me it looks pretty

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > On 14.04.2017 12:05, Jaromil wrote: > > > distro-agnostic packaging system done right (aka using a functional > > language) > > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Invoking-guix-package.html > > hmm, yet another

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 14.04.2017 12:05, Jaromil wrote: > can't look deeper into it now, but well, we can consider it at least > as a reference for people preparing and fixing packages. Can we aggree on some common naming scheme ? For now I'm just using / as prefix (which is used by my pbuilder-based packaging

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > On 14.04.2017 11:37, Jaromil wrote: > > > being heavily based on git, it could be well compatible with Devuan's > > architecture. We'd certainly support the project. > > maybe you'd like to have a look at my github repos to get a

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 14.04.2017 11:37, Jaromil wrote: > being heavily based on git, it could be well compatible with Devuan's > architecture. We'd certainly support the project. maybe you'd like to have a look at my github repos to get a better idea of my approach: https://github.com/oss-qm

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > Several years ago, I started a project called 'oss-qm' which aimed to > collect maintenance branches for lots of packages, which solve the > common problems in a generic way (instead of all the dist specific > patches), so distros can

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 14.04.2017 09:49, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 09:14:32AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult > wrote: > ...err...by upstream you mean Debian? Then I am lost. I meant the actual upstreams, but dists like debian too. > Most of the systemd-specific stuff in those packages has

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 09:14:32AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: [cut] > > > Look, today Devuan lives with using mostly Debian packages, a small > > fraction of which being de-poetterized. > > That's already a good thing, and really should be continued. But the >

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 16.03.2017 12:10, Didier Kryn wrote: > Many free software developper teams proved already they are mostly > working for themselves - eg Gnome, KDE, Firefox. When people develop > software for free, they put a lot of their ego in it, and this goes > against the ability to recognize ones own

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 16.03.2017 11:20, Alessandro Selli wrote: > «Got agetty to compile with systemd. Seems like systemd puts deamons > in the /sbin/ folder. However most openwrt utilities (util-linux) > installs them to /usr/sbin. Manually setting agetty to /sbin yields a > working console

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 15.03.2017 14:20, Patrick Meade wrote: > Those users just need to know where to go. A simple informative post (a > sign post) to the thread will accomplish that. +1 That could be repeated whenever some systemd-related problem comes up. And devuan releases could be announced there, too.

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 15.03.2017 18:52, Steve Litt wrote: > Protesting against majorities at their home sometimes brings useful > things to a minority, and if such protests go on often enough and long > enough, they usually do. Actually, it's one minority protesting against another one, in front of the majority.

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Hi Christopher. Le 16/03/2017 03:32, Christopher Clements a écrit : Microsoft said, and I quote: "Note, however, that Compaq and Dell merely have to credibly threaten Linux adoption in order to push for lower OEM OS pricing." Linux

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:20:35AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > I think we should insist on cross-platform support and ease of porting: > systemd is exclusively Linux, software written that has it as a > hard-dependency cannot run on a generic POSIX-compliant system, widespread > adoption

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Il giorno Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:06:30 -0500 goli...@dyne.org ha scritto: > On 2017-03-15 21:32, Christopher Clements wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: >>> But what is the point? Our freedoms are being eroded on all fronts - >>> we are drowning in a tsunami

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 3/15/17 9:14 PM, Christopher Clements wrote: The exact suggestion is here: That is an excellent idea. Would be great if someone got organized enough to start a dialog with EVERY upstream dev individually and/or

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:06:30PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: On 2017-03-15 21:32, Christopher Clements wrote: On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: But what is the point? Our freedoms are being eroded on all fronts - we are drowning in a tsunami of reversal of

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 2017-03-15 21:32, Christopher Clements wrote: On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: But what is the point? Our freedoms are being eroded on all fronts - we are drowning in a tsunami of reversal of choice dictated by those in power be they Debian or corporations

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: But what is the point? Our freedoms are being eroded on all fronts - we are drowning in a tsunami of reversal of choice dictated by those in power be they Debian or corporations or government. Rather than piss in the wind...

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Steve Litt wrote: Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt on it please. Can those wanting to be added to Steve's list please contact him directly at the above

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 21:37:45 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of > people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt > on it please. Me too! -- Kim Lesmer

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 09:37:45PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt on it please. Mine too. (Although my name carries no weight at all apart from quantity.) I left

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 01:19:18PM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > You can include me in your list if you want. But I think for a Debian user > who is currently questioning the need for systemd, knowing his alternatives > is much more useful than knowing that I (some guy they don't know) stopped >

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 16:57:15 + KatolaZ wrote: > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 05:44:17PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > This sounds like telling minorities to stop whining for being > > discriminated against because they are ... well, a minority, and

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 2017-03-15 11:21, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: On 2017-03-14 20:37, Steve Litt wrote: > >. . . and they still have the power to take our init systems away from us >. . . How exactly will they do that? An executive order? By

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 04:57:15PM +, KatolaZ wrote: > > debian-user is a mailing list of debian users. I am not a debian user > any more, and I was not on that list even when I was a Debian user > (and it was for about 15 years). So why on Earth should I now go there > and shout loud at

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

I left Debian for Funtoo and Devuan. The reason was systemd. Debian paid lip service to the alternate init systems, but in reality systemd was slowly but surely becoming required. I left because it was clear they were going in a different direction than I wanted to follow. You can include me

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 05:44:17PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote: [cut] > > This sounds like telling minorities to stop whining for being > discriminated against because they are ... well, a minority, and the place > is run by the majority. You are basically saying that only majorities might

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 3/15/17 9:20 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 16/03/17 02:55, goli...@dyne.org wrote: . . . but remember that the Freedesktop/Redhat/SystemdCabal consortium has the goal of eliminating systemd as a choice . . . Er . . . not quite what you intended to say, I think. Yes, well, I read

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Il giorno Wed, 15 Mar 2017 12:26:22 + KatolaZ ha scritto: > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 09:37:45PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of > > people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 16/03/17 02:55, goli...@dyne.org wrote: >> . . . but remember that the Freedesktop/Redhat/SystemdCabal >> consortium has the goal of eliminating systemd as a choice . . . >> > > Er . . . not quite what you intended to say, I think. Yes, well, I read that as -- you have no choice, the

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2017-03-14 20:37, Steve Litt wrote: > > > >Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of > >people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt > >on it please. > > > > There are plenty

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 2017-03-14 20:37, Steve Litt wrote: Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt on it please. There are plenty of sites where YOU could start a MEEETOOO petition to prove your point. But what

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Hello, Another way to speak up would be on Gnu social. Something that could be useful if that someone takes the time to respond to some questions or to join a conversation on GNU social. See for example here: https://community.highlandarrow.com/notice/737628 Here's a list of instance for anyone

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 03/14/2017 08:37 PM, Steve Litt wrote: We have our quiet sans-systemd corners, and right now they're comfortable, but remember that the Freedesktop/Redhat/SystemdCabal consortium has the goal of eliminating systemd as a choice, and they still have the power to take our init systems away from

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 09:37:45PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: [cut] > > Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of > people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt > on it please. > You could definitely do that, but to what avail, if I may ask? Why

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

- Original Message - From: "Joachim Fahrner" <j...@fahrner.name> To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:57 AM Subject: Re: [DNG] We need to speak up Am 2017-03-15 02:37, schrieb Steve Litt: Can somebody please make a list, that we can put o

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

You can add Marcus Coles to the list, but this really is a waste of time. If the list get several thousand names, it won't be enough to convince the loud mouth indoctrinated sheep that have taken charge of the barn yard and will be thought about only long enough to twist into a negative.

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 09:37:45PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > There's yet another systemd thread on Debian-User ^^^ Just ignore. The debian-user list is notorious for its _negative_ signal-to-noise ratio. It's not just system matters -- you're

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

The feeling is intense, but I am afraid a petition of sorts is not going to help. The systemd hooligans are manipulative bullies in the best case and will just troll your names on the board while sitting up on the walls of the stronghold. I recommend that beyond the act of putting up a list, you

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Am 2017-03-15 02:37, schrieb Steve Litt: Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt on it please. Mee too. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Il 15/03/2017 07:21, Miles Fidelman ha scritto: > On 3/14/17 9:05 PM, Dan Purgert wrote: > >> >> On 03/15/2017 12:00 AM, メット wrote: >>> >>> On 2017年3月15日 12:40:48 JST, Don Wright wrote: Steve Litt wrote: > Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 3/14/17 9:05 PM, Dan Purgert wrote: On 03/15/2017 12:00 AM, メット wrote: On 2017年3月15日 12:40:48 JST, Don Wright wrote: Steve Litt wrote: Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On 03/15/2017 12:00 AM, メット wrote: > > > On 2017年3月15日 12:40:48 JST, Don Wright wrote: >> Steve Litt wrote: >>> Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of >>> people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt >>> on it please.

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2017年3月15日 12:40:48 JST, Don Wright wrote: >Steve Litt wrote: >>Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of >>people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt >>on it please. >

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

Steve Litt wrote: >Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of >people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt >on it please. Add mine too. I was a Debian supporter and pusher through my local LUG, showing Linux (mostly Debian-based) and handing out

Re: [DNG] We need to speak up

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 09:37:45PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Can somebody please make a list, that we can put our names on, of > people who left Debian because of systemd? And put the name Steve Litt > on it please. You can add Gregory Nowak to that too. I was for the most part quite happy on

[DNG] We need to speak up

Hi all, There's yet another systemd thread on Debian-User, started by a guy who wrote an intelligent question about why there's no choice of init at install time: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg00472.html After a little back and forth, a guy who claims to have used Linux for 20