[DNG] Fwd: We need upgrade reports
-- Forwarded message - From: leonard ashley Date: Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports To: Dr. Nikolaus Klepp Upgraded Devuan Crowz Ob derivative from ascii to beowulf, fresh live-sdk build. Installed all except for Linux Kernel 4.19 and headers. Check synaptic and installed from there. Reboot and now 4.19. Hope this is helpful! Leonard Ashley aka zephyr On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 3:49 PM Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Anno domini 2019 Tue, 31 Dec 14:58:10 -0500 > fsmithred via Dng scripsit: > > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production > > system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not > > the real thing. > > > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and those > > went smoothly. We need more data points. > > > > Thanks, > > fsmithred > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > All upgraded since some months, no problems so far. > > Nik > > -- > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing > with the NSA, CIA ... > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf?, was: We need upgrade reports
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 03:52:28 +0100, Arnt wrote in message <20200101035228.284bce12@sda3>: > ..testing an ascii 2.1 box: > Retrieving bug reports... Done > Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done > grave bugs of firefox-esr (68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2 → 68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1) > b1 - #944706 - firefox-esr: Tab crashes immediately after > start up and Firefox ESR was unusable. Summary: > firefox-esr(1 bug) > Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? > [Y/n/?/...] > ..hitting [<-'] returns: apt-listchanges: Changelogs --- firefox-esr (68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1) stretch-security; urgency=medium * New upstream release. * Fixes for mfsa2019-37, also known as: CVE-2019-17008, CVE-2019-11745, CVE-2019-17010, CVE-2019-17005, CVE-2019-17011, CVE-2019-17012. * debian/control.in: Bump nss build dependencies. * intl/icu_sources_data.py: - Revert change from 68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2. - Don't build ICU in parallel. * gfx/skia/skia/third_party/skcms/src/Transform_inl.h: Work around GCC ICEs on arm. (Thanks Emilio Pozuelo Monfort) -- Mike Hommey Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:58:01 +0900 Reading changelogs... Done apt-listchanges: Mailing root: apt-listchanges: changelogs for sda3 apt-listdifferences: fetching source packages Get:1 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1.dsc [43.4 kB] Get:2 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr.orig-l10n-ach.tar.bz2 [264 kB] ... Get:93 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr.orig-l10n-zh-TW.tar.bz2 [1018 kB] Get:94 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr.orig.tar.xz [349 MB] Get:95 firefox-esr_68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1.debian.tar.xz [176 kB] Fetched 421 MB in 6s (809 kB/s) ..not posting the diff: diff \ -Nru /mnt/tmp/ZEStcyJ4UU/firefox-esr-68.2.0esr \ /mnt/tmp/UmCsVdoA5s/firefox-esr-68.3.0esr \ >/tmp/firefox-esr-68.2-3.0esr.diff -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2848094 Jan 1 04:25 /tmp/firefox-esr-68.2-3.0esr.diff ..I just tested firefox-esr-68.2-3.0esr, which works ok both from the launch menu and from the cli. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf?, was: We need upgrade reports
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 03:52:28AM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf? As of now, 68.3.0. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf?, was: We need upgrade reports
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 14:58:10 -0500, fsmithred wrote in message : > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production > system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, > not the real thing. > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and > those went smoothly. We need more data points. ..what version firefox-esr do we get on upgrading to Beowulf? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=944706 is weird, 2 or 3 bugs ..#944706 also reports a "/und" typo in Debian's firefox-esr help message url: ... https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/und/firefox/68.2.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser ...but these 3 are found ok if you care to look newbie Groklaw-style: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/68.2.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/68.3.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/68.4.0/releasenotes/?utm_campaign=whatsnew_medium=firefox-browser_source=firefox-browser ..and the headliner bug crash only happens when you launch it from the launch menu, and not from the cli, which is suggested as a work-around. ..testing an ascii 2.1 box: Retrieving bug reports... Done Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done grave bugs of firefox-esr (68.2.0esr-1~deb9u2 → 68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1) b1 - #944706 - firefox-esr: Tab crashes immediately after start up and Firefox ESR was unusable. Summary: firefox-esr(1 bug) Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 16:01:11 -0500, fsmithred wrote in message <56853e51-735a-8e18-1f44-f6ae3fb6c...@gmail.com>: > On 12/31/19 3:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Hi, > > > > On 1/1/20 6:53 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > >> On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > > So how long before we can expect to get stable release > > of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? > > > > About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're > working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be > pretty smooth. > >>> > >>> Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get > >>> update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now? > >>> > >>> For production systems or any systems? > >>> > >>> Thanks A. > >> > >> For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system > >> first, only because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also, > >> there might still be some issues on upgrading lvm. > > > > I use lvm, a lot, what are the problems with lvm? > > > >> I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a > >> mate desktop. They've all been uneventful. > > > > Thanks > > A. > > CenturionDan posted this in irc a few days ago: > " with the 4.19 kernel LVM requires udev to be running and /run/udev > to exist in order for root on LV and other initramfs mounted volumes > to be mounted.." ..is this a systemd-ism directed against LVM users? > I ran into this issue on some fresh installs earlier this year and > had to create and mount /run/udev in a chroot to get grub to install. > > fsr -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports
Anno domini 2019 Tue, 31 Dec 14:58:10 -0500 fsmithred via Dng scripsit: > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production > system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not > the real thing. > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and those > went smoothly. We need more data points. > > Thanks, > fsmithred > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > All upgraded since some months, no problems so far. Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
On 12/31/19 3:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 1/1/20 6:53 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be pretty smooth. Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now? For production systems or any systems? Thanks A. For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system first, only because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also, there might still be some issues on upgrading lvm. I use lvm, a lot, what are the problems with lvm? I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a mate desktop. They've all been uneventful. Thanks A. CenturionDan posted this in irc a few days ago: " with the 4.19 kernel LVM requires udev to be running and /run/udev to exist in order for root on LV and other initramfs mounted volumes to be mounted.." I ran into this issue on some fresh installs earlier this year and had to create and mount /run/udev in a chroot to get grub to install. fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 1/1/20 6:53 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 >> >> Hi, >> >> On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: >>> On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: >>> So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? >>> >>> About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're >>> working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be >>> pretty smooth. >> >> Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get >> update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now? >> >> For production systems or any systems? >> >> Thanks A. > > For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system > first, only because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also, > there might still be some issues on upgrading lvm. I use lvm, a lot, what are the problems with lvm? > I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a > mate desktop. They've all been uneventful. Thanks A. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXgusjwAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +/2nAP45jcuMKqIYELattxmjZuvMInvdAzx5hLKdA3g/yxrkfQD+JJjQrBq9wr9b uU5+PkU6aGZFV5WqR/pEWu0PmoW534w= =5XVG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports
I have three laptops I upgraded from Ascii to Beowulf over the summer. They are "production" in the sense that I use them every day. They use XFCE as the DE. I am very happy with beowulf on these systems. On 12/31/19 1:58 PM, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production > system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not > the real thing. > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and those > went smoothly. We need more data points. > > Thanks, > fsmithred > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ıɐq ıƃınl ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
I've done a few test upgrades of VMs running ascii to beowulf. These were base systems off the ISO with no additional packages installed. No problems so far. I've got a few VMs running ascii with packages installed, tomcat, nginx, etc. I'll be testing them later today. Josef On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:53 AM fsmithred via Dng wrote: > On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Hi, > > > > On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > >> On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > >> > >>> So how long before we can expect to get stable release of > >>> Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? > >>> > >> > >> About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're working > >> on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be pretty smooth. > > > > Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: > > apt-get update > > apt-get dist-upgrade > > ... now? > > > > For production systems or any systems? > > > > Thanks > > A. > > For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system first, only > because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also, there might still > be some issues on upgrading lvm. > > I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a mate > desktop. They've all been uneventful. > > fsr > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Josef Grosch | Berkeley, CA. | Where ever you go, jgro...@gmail.com | Cell: 510-207-9976 | There you are ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] We need upgrade reports
Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not the real thing. I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and those went smoothly. We need more data points. Thanks, fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be pretty smooth. Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now? For production systems or any systems? Thanks A. For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system first, only because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also, there might still be some issues on upgrading lvm. I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a mate desktop. They've all been uneventful. fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > >> So how long before we can expect to get stable release of >> Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? >> > > About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're working > on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be pretty smooth. Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now? For production systems or any systems? Thanks A. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXguelAAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +0zGAPwKVDkEFIxG4VTq8KrUBR6cT/+Uqr/Rjux3XXR7W80DVgD9Fnf4NCFZui8E 76InJNxn0T62gzLF7bXcTG2BjowdEcU= =4EIC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Frontend of simple-netaid (Was: What about the boost c++ libraries?)
Hi again, On 14/12/19 16:59, s@ wrote: Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:56:13 +0100 From: Aitor Only *boost-iostream* and *boost-filesystem* are required in simple-netaid so far, even though I could do the same job using only the stardard c++11, of course. I say this because once somebody said (here, in the mailing list) "no more wraps, please", but maybe referring to dbus or something similar [*]. What do you think of? Cheers, Aitor. [*] git-buildpackage is a wrap for dpkg-buildpackage and it's cool. I must add that I disagree with the overuse of smart pointers and some design patterns. I was rather surprised to see that all the gtkmm forms of mysql-workbench are singleton! My Personal Opinion is that libboost, is something very viral in nature.. And libboost itself, is a monster in size.. I would pay attention, to dependencies :) -- Best Regards, tux Anybody can explain me why the toolbar of simple-netaid is hidden in the following code? http://gnuinos.org/examples/simple-netaid/ You can download the sources from here: http://gnuinos.org/examples/simple-netaid/simple-netaid.tar.gz You need to install cmake and libgtkmm-2.4-dev. I wrote the following script in my "/usr/bin": #!/bin/sh path=$(pwd) rm -f $path/simple-netaid rm -rf $path/build-area mkdir $path/build-area cd $path/build-area cmake ../ make exit 0 Just run it in the parent directory of the sources. I'll also ask tomorrow about this issue in the gtkmm mailing list. Cheers, and happy new year :) Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:00:39 + (UTC) Alexis PM via Dng wrote: > >Many years ago, on this mailing list, one of the VUAs mentioned that > >the long term plan was to leave Debian behind and become the Devuan > >independent distro. > > > I am sorry to burst the soap bubble, I want Devuan to persist and > that requires a realistic analysis. Why apologize, and then do it anyway? > Cleaning up systemd dependencies > to Debian packaging is child's play compared to creating and > maintaining a large self-built distro in the long run. [snip several legitimate arguments supporting preceding sentence] A quick look indicates you've been on this list since December 2016. The Vua made this statement well prior to December 2016. Your arguments favoring perpetual tracking of Debian were all excellent. There's exactly one argument favoring an independent Devuan: What happens if Debian stops supporting sysvinit, or worse, installs Halloween Code to greatly complicate systemd replacement? SteveT Steve Litt December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Refracta-10.0 (beowulf) XFCE isos
Betas: https://get.refracta.org/files/testing/ I know there are a couple of issues with the high contrast theme. (wrong icon set, one wrong launcher.) What else? (other than missing documentation. Don't worry, you'll figure it out. Release notes will come later, but they won't be much different from the last notes.) fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be pretty smooth. fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, -- essentially same message, but with line resizing to help with gpg sig -- On 31/12/19 12:32 pm, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > fsmithred via Dng writes: >> On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote: >>> I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a >>> binary compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what >>> point would it be determined that the best course of action >>> may be to leave Debian behind and continue our own way? >>> Probably won't happen any time soon due to manpower issues but >>> it's worth thinking about. >> >> One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling >> farther behind debian. Right now, we're still catching up. >> >> Jessie was 2 years late. Ascii was 1 year late. Beowulf is 6 >> months late. > > You just brightened up my view of Devuan's future :-) > > I'd been getting a little disappointed with the fact there's still > no beowulf but looking at it this way, you're still going strong, > despite any resources issues. Keep up the good work! > >> Any talk of switching our base is premature. > > Hope this helps, I agree, it is premature, but I, myself have to admit to being a bit impatient. I wonder, not very much though, if Fedora supports non system better than Debian does or will? I can't wait for Beowulf either, 6 months now... how long before it is released. We do have Ascii 2.1 from fairly recently, but I'm sure that there are many things that Beowulf will help to modernize our distro of choice. My son is complaining about the mail server not supporting TLS1.3 and that is down to openssl being v1.1.0l and not v1.1.1 Buster, from which Beowulf will "align" has v1.1.1d-0_deb10u2 -- not sure it includes TLS1.3 support, but I expect it does. Is there any chance of a backport or should we just wait until Beowulf is ready? I think it is pretty clear now that unless there is a serious change in Debian's direction, the DDs have clearly flown the systemd flag as their extremely strong preference and little will be possible in persuading them otherwise, ever. Given that DDs are the only "chosen" ones to decide on Debian's future, that makes it even more unlikely to change. Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann[1], he is a strong advocate of right to repair and whilst he regularly profits from Apple design problems and highlights the problems (sans rose coloured glasses of iDevotees), he would love for Apple to stop having problems and for that part of his business to become unnecessary. In some respects I was sort of hoping that Debian would "fix" their problems and lessen the need for Devuan as well. As it is today and now very likely, very much in to the future, we definitely need Devuan to keep going and to get much stronger over time as we can surely not rely upon Debian too much unless we choose to move to pro systemd camp and that is not likely either for most, if not all of us here. [1] http://axqzx4s6s54s32yentfqojs3x5i7faxza6xo3ehd4bzzsg2ii4fv2iid.onion/ch annel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w NB: That is a v3 .onion address for https://invidio.us (no need for https with .onion addresses and only available on (or via) the Tor network. Invidious is a "portal" of sorts to YT videos without the need to visit YT. So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? Thank you for your good work at Devuan, it is very much appreciated. Kind Regards AndrewM -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXguAHwAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +67zAP98qK6YK5KtMHYNGZTXV5oNJOBCt41j/EwR0Qxu5jGz/gEAgEXB7tev/OmK iguCz07vj9lsCpIGBFSTip5fupcixV8= =r4Mm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 31/12/19 12:32 pm, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > fsmithred via Dng writes: >> On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote: >>> I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a >>> binary compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what >>> point would it be determined that the best course of action may >>> be to leave Debian behind and continue our own way? Probably >>> won't happen any time soon due to manpower issues but it's >>> worth thinking about. >> >> One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling >> farther behind debian. Right now, we're still catching up. >> >> Jessie was 2 years late. Ascii was 1 year late. Beowulf is 6 >> months late. > > You just brightened up my view of Devuan's future :-) > > I'd been getting a little disappointed with the fact there's still > no beowulf but looking at it this way, you're still going strong, > despite any resources issues. Keep up the good work! > >> Any talk of switching our base is premature. > > Hope this helps, I agree, it is premature, but I, myself have to admit to being a bit impatient. I wonder, not very much though, if Fedora supports non system better than Debian does or will? I can't wait for Beowulf either, 6 months now... how long before it is released. We do have Ascii 2.1 from fairly recently, but I'm sure that there are many things that Beowulf will help to modernize our distro of choice. My son is complaining about the mail server not supporting TLS1.3 and that is down to openssl being v1.1.0l and not v1.1.1 Buster, from which Beowulf will "align" has v1.1.1d-0_deb10u2 -- not sure it includes TLS1.3 support, but I expect it does. Is there any chance of a backport or should we just wait until Beowulf is ready? I think it is pretty clear now that unless there is a serious change in Debian's direction, the DDs have clearly flown the systemd flag as their extremely strong preference and little will be possible in persuading them otherwise, ever. Given that DDs are the only "chosen" ones to decide on Debian's future, that makes it even more unlikely to change. Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann[1], he is a strong advocate of right to repair and whilst he regularly profits from Apple design problems and highlights the problems (sans rose coloured glasses of iDevotees), he would love for Apple to stop having problems and for that part of his business to become unnecessary. In some respects I was sort of hoping that Debian would "fix" their problems and lessen the need for Devuan as well. As it is today and now very likely, very much in to the future, we definitely need Devuan to keep going and to get much stronger over time as we can surely not rely upon Debian too much unless we choose to move to pro systemd camp and that is not likely either for most, if not all of us here. [1] http://axqzx4s6s54s32yentfqojs3x5i7faxza6xo3ehd4bzzsg2ii4fv2iid.onion/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w NB: That is a v3 .onion address for https://invidio.us (no need for https with .onion addresses and only available on (or via) the Tor network. Invidious is a "portal" of sorts to YT videos without the need to visit YT. So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet? Thank you for your good work at Devuan, it is very much appreciated. Kind Regards AndrewM -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXgt+uAAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +0UBAQDEGvGAmJyf3x0j+j8fXI2KSV7cO5zwxsJEVXHRomczJgD5AdY6gAYCbLoF st+b401/e6XFFAbq93NSFfnoY20gKyY= =NHfA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
>Many years ago, on this mailing list, one of the VUAs mentioned that >the long term plan was to leave Debian behind and become the Devuan >independent distro. I am sorry to burst the soap bubble, I want Devuan to persist and that requires a realistic analysis. Cleaning up systemd dependencies to Debian packaging is child's play compared to creating and maintaining a large self-built distro in the long run. The idea of an independent Devuan not based on Debian may be the imaginary fantasy of some people (not me), but it is unrealistic. Creating, but more importantly maintaining, a medium or large distro over the years is a huge job. Debian is around 1500 maintainers and it is noticeable that more person-hours would be needed to maintain it (delays in packaging new versions, delays in attending to bug reports, ...). Devuan has 1/100 that number of maintainers, and its human capacity is limited to hardly achieve to modify a small number of packages of each Debian release (task that is delayed months). For experiments there are already other distros, like Hyperbola. If the name of Devuan ended up deriving to a Hyperbola type distro, it would be necessary to remake a new Devuan in the original (current) sense: based on the veteran and stable distro that Debian is but removing the systemd dependencies. Best regards! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 31/12/19 7:46 am, Steve Litt wrote: > I didn't hear anyone telling people what to do. I heard Tom ask a > question. Tom? I think you meant me ? Cheers A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXgt6ogAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +zjtAQC5pj90GT4Hrv1ep9Tg5VWGL5nxesJiCJvg8dYJIW8Y8gD/cjBHRmS04ark OXBCjSJKPkKGlnJsCWjVwKblY+AJNm4= =bugo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
