Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: They did, but out of all this design by committee, hidden between all the political bullshit and bikeshedding, they also created the most brilliant, most comprehensive set of standards for quality control, package uniformity, license

Re: [DNG] [arthur.ma...@internode.on.net: Re: Interesting comment from a kernel developer]

Haines Brown hai...@histomat.net wrote: Just a side note. I installed Sid on a x250 Thinkpad and then replaced systemd with sysVinit. Things seem to be working just fine, although admittedly I didn't install any desktop environment. Did you also try removing the rest of SystemD ?

Re: [DNG] [arthur.ma...@internode.on.net: Re: Interesting comment from a kernel developer]

Haines Brown hai...@histomat.net wrote: No. I installed sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils, rebooted, and then did: # apt-get remove --purge --auto-remove systemd # echo -e '\n\nPackage: *systemd*\nPin: origin \nPin-Priority: \ -1' /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd So you

Re: [DNG] Offtopic: pointed messages?

Mitt mitt_gr...@yahoo.com wrote: I noticed that my messages are not pointed to those who they are sent to. See image https://imgur.com/J4UaT7D Are you referring to the fact that it's not shown in it's place in the tree like the rest of the messages ? If so, then that's because your mails

Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: See above, the DNG mailing list is mostly full of discussions and not much actions, except for from a few people. That is the impression I'd got as well. Now I'll preface the next bit with ... this is not meant to be an insult or criticism, so

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: ClamAV claims to support FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, OpenVMS, Slackware and Windows, all of which certainly don't have systemd. I've just cloned the current development repository and build it on Wheezy using a plain ./configure

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

T.J. Duchene t.j.duch...@gmail.com wrote: I used Debian Sid recently, with the apparent ability to boot using either System 5 or Systemd via Grub. The choice seems clear to me that Devuan could minimize upsteam maintenance by looking at that. The problem is not which init system to use -

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

It seems to me that it's good to have shim programs that satisfy dependencies of apps on systemd, each shim performing some systemd function. Here's why: Suppose there are 10,000 application programs (apps) for Linux, and their developers foolishly insert dependencies on systemd. If

Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd

Didier Kryn wrote: >>> Why the hell did they invent suspend-to-disk? >> I take it you don't like the idea ? > No. I don't dislike the idea. I admit it is brillant. I'm confused then - but that's not hard ! > This leads to the conclusion: boot time doesn't matter if you never

Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd

Didier Kryn wrote: > Why the hell did they invent suspend-to-disk? I take it you don't like the idea ? My only laptop is OS X, and I tend to leave so much open (text files of temporary notes, a gazzillion web pages/tabs, mail (home), mail (work), and a few others. To boot

Re: [DNG] OT: Degree?

Mitt Green wrote: > I mean, that's something normal, neither years in the field > nor degree won't make you smart and experienced > (years are not equal to experience) alone, something > has to be inside your skull. That echoes something I wrote off-list to the OP. Having

Re: [DNG] Interesting read from RMS

Jaromil wrote: > Of the three perhaps only Linus did, after > all he is an active programmer and reads > regularly code. But he is refraining from > doing universal statements pro or against > the whole of systemd, while interacting > on details, which I think is wise to do for

Re: [DNG] ntp (Was: Detailed technical treatise of systemd)

Didier Kryn wrote: > NTP does not adjust the RTC brutally; it seems to adjust slowly the frequency > so that synchronization happens without the process being noticeable to other > apps - it can take hours. On shutdown it saves the RTC settings in > /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift, and

Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

Mitt Green wrote: > But I also have libsystemd0 file in /etc/apt/preferences.d containing: > > > > Package: libsystemd0 > Pin: origin "" > Pin-Priority: -1 > > Does anyone have any tips for getting more meaningful output from

Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

KatolaZ wrote: > ... but please: do not urge people > to reboot, ever. There is simply no need at all to reboot, and in the > ovewhelming majority of use cases it is not necessary at all to use > the latest kernel available, unless ... With all due respect, I disagree with

Re: [DNG] About the experimental live DVD

Godefridus Daalmans wrote: > We all need to begin somewhere. > > Not all of us are experienced enough in the areas we need to learn to make > Devuan thrive. Indeed, and I feel a bit "leechish" not being able to put anything practical in - I know next to nothing about

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming

Didier Kryn wrote: > Out of curiosity, why are the virtual Ethernet given random addresses? Well they have to have something ! For Xen, they've registered an OUI to get a block of MAC addresses to use. If you don't specify teh MAC address in the VM config then it'll pick one at

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: I'll add my voice to the chorus objecting to the idea that removal of systemd is for servers only. I don't think anyone has suggested it's for servers only. But, there is an argument for picking the low hanging fruit - and that means trying to do the easy

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming (was: What can I do after netman?)

Steve Litt wrote: >> The whole point of having 'an operating system' >> is that it provides an abstract interface userspace software can use >> to interact with the physical components of a different computer >> according to the functions they're supposed to be

Re: [DNG] OpenRC: was s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

Timo Buhrmester wrote: > Probably because people don't want this behavior. Auto-respawn only > makes sense when you're "relying" on buggy software you already expect > to blow up, *and* are unwilling to debug it. "Try turning it off > and on again", "A restart will fix it"

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming (was: What can I do after netman?)

Hendrik Boom wrote: > Can we agree that ww shouldnn't have to change our configurations if we > do not change anything in the hardware? That would be a reasonable base requirement. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming (was: What can I do after netman?)

poitr pogo wrote: > > I thought it was stupid for other reasons, but now that you mention it, > > > yeah, naming it after the particular slot into which it's plugged in is > > stupid, and if you take the box apart and move things around, you can > > break your OS. > > > >

Re: [DNG] netman: support for wlan1, wlan2, ... and eth1, eth2, .... and new systemd's naming scheme

tilt! wrote: > I think the entire issue "how do i scan for available networks" is badly > implemented in wicd *and* in Windows WiFi Connections (which are two WiFi > connection assistants i know from practice). For completeness, this is how OS X (version 10.8) does it. If

Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

Laurent Bercot <ska-de...@skarnet.org> wrote: > On 25/09/2015 09:05, Simon Hobson wrote: >> More to the point, I'd rather have reliability over speed any day. > > How about you get both? Well yes, that's better still. > The dichotomy is a false one. People beli

Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > ... or the fact that apache on the box I'm presently > using 'depends' on bind and syslog. Well in the general case*, those are not unreasonable dependencies. In the general case*, Apache needs** DNS resolution during startup, and it

Re: [DNG] the devil is in the details.

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > That's a long rant about 'systemd architecture' with an inflammatory > subject someone posted to the systemd devel list. It didn't receive any > replies more noteworthy than the original text which is 'hardly > surprising'. Ah, I'm not

Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

KatolaZ wrote: > Just please try to > avoid falling in the same "everybody needs to boot-up in 12 seconds > because high availability requires so" rhetoric championed by > systemd-fanboys. More to the point, I'd rather have reliability over speed any day. If the system

Re: [DNG] [announce] Nostalgia (Was: s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems)

KatolaZ wrote: > Agree! That's why I would warmly suggest mobile devices producers to > include a pluggable nixie-tubes display like this: > > http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/images/ground_nixie_front.jpg Metaphorical "hands up" - how many of us went "gosh, how long is it since I

Re: [DNG] top posting, was: Re: Debianising my uploaded version of netman.

shraptor wrote: > I must admit I am really clueless to what is considered good practice in > mailing-lists. ... > I am not rude on purpose but I truly don't know mailing-list style of > interaction. > Should I delete this or keep this? Write here or write there? In "days

Re: [DNG] the consistency of omelette

Florian Zieboll wrote: > You know, I am certainly not the person who wouldn't agree to the > concept of breaking eggs to make an omelette. But it's completely > unnacceptable to go to the supermarket and break everybody else's eggs > too, just because you want to make yourself

Re: [DNG] Which email client can I use to properly quote emails?

Florian Zieboll wrote: > If the fear of loosing your mail archive is the only reason to avoid > IMAP: Many IMAP capable mail clients support synchronizing to local > folders. For those that don't, you can easily create a local (or remote) > backup with isync/mbsync which could

Re: [DNG] Which email client can I use to properly quote emails?

Steve Litt wrote: > You might wonder why I'm so partial to IMAP: A fair question indeed. I think a fairer question would be why anyone would be against it ! OK, there's one reason - and that's if you are not running you own mail server in which case you are reliant

Re: [DNG] support for merged /usr in Debian

Steve Litt wrote: >> Therefore, if you want to mount a disk partition, you either >> need the necessary drivers and filesystem built-in the kernel or have >> them in the initrd/initramfs (under /lib/modules). Having the module >> on the disk won't help -- egg and

Re: [DNG] support for merged /usr in Debian

I wrote: > I have worked with Unix systems in the past with separate /usr filesystem > (SCO OpenServer 5 - ahh, nostalgia). Back then we had to create a boot and > root floppy (yes I know some youngsters have probably never seen one) and I > can recall the problems I found making enough room

Re: [DNG] support for merged /usr in Debian

Clarke Sideroad wrote: > I see little choice but to make the merged bin option available, after > all this is all about choice, but for gosh sakes it should not be the > default. The issue - as I see it - is much the same as with systemd. If the upstream stuff

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Didier Kryn wrote: >Down to zero? Depends on what the system is doing ! I've just checked several of my systems, one showed 12k when I logged in and dropped to 0. OK, that's a router so doesn't do much disk I/O - just a bit of logging. Another (my mail server amongst other

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Didier Kryn wrote: >That's the logic one would naively expect but I'm not sure of it. I'm > afraid the data remains in the cache and not backed-up to disk until some > process needs room in the cache. You can do the experiment of writing data to > a usb memory stick and

Re: [DNG] restarts

Hendrik Boom wrote: >> An experienced sysadmin who has to do this type of thing several times a >> day would have designed this syntax for ease of use. The systemd >> developers did not do this, presumably because they do not have to type >> these commands several

Re: [DNG] Ummmm, no

Mitt Green wrote: > I reckon as long as his Fedora boots, he doesn't care. I think that's the key reason. Linus is concerned with the kernel - and while I suspect he has personal preferences about what is run on top of that, he's "detached" enough to take the

Re: [DNG] Predictable Network Interface Names - Stupid or good idea?

On 9 Jan 2016, at 17:02, Stephanie Daugherty wrote: > 5 - have udev issue manual (admin-chosen) persistent names by mac address Which, IMO, is the most logical option. Lets face it, how often do people actually change hardware ? And when hardware is changed, it's a

Re: [DNG] Giving Devuan sans-initramfs capabilities

Stephanie Daugherty wrote: >> But what's the point of having modules "at the end of [the kernel] image"? >> You can just compile-in them. > > Simple, It's to be able to turn a packaged, distribution supplied kernel into > one that will successfully boot on obscure

Re: [DNG] PAM usage

Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> That's what I've always assumed - and IMO it seems like a sensible >> idea. After all, people don't generally object to the idea of programs >> calling various libraries instead of "doing their own thing". > > Well, I certainly do object

Re: [DNG] Preferred automounter behavior?

Steve Litt wrote: > With /dev/sd? you can at least try to guess which one got > plugged in last, and then verify. It's certainly no warse (probably better actually) than the Windows world where it could be E:, F:, or something else - and it could even change

Re: [DNG] Life's too short to reply to trolls

Dragan FOSS wrote: > If the group is so weak, that one opponent may threaten it, then something is > wrong with that group, right? No. As pointed out, the "discussion" has distracted people from the task in hand. No-one here has to justify their desire to be systemd free

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Didier Kryn wrote: > There remains a fundamental problem with automatic mount/umount. While > automounting is safe, auto-unmounting is not if it is triggered by device > removal. > Unmounting must be done *before* removing the device if anything has been > written to it,

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Steve Litt wrote: > I did a test. I created hello.txt, put "hello world" in it, saved it, > and yanked out the thumb three seconds later. Of course the > whole /media/sdd1 tree vanished. When I plugged in the thumb again, > hello.txt contained exactly what I'd typed in

Re: [DNG] Question on Devuan

Linux O'Beardly wrote: > While many here would probably say it's not a good idea to run servers on > Devuan until a production release, I am already running it on a number of > servers. That's good to know - I need to find time to do some testing myself. > R. W.

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

John Hughes wrote: > Yes, the impression I get around here is that this is a religious argument > for most of you. > > I had hopes for Devuan, but the lack of rational thinking convinces me that > it's going nowhere. There's no lack of rational thinking. People here don't

Re: [DNG] Not getting your emails

Mitt Green wrote: > Go Linux wrote: > >> Just a heads up. None of your emails are coming through. Not even in spam. >> I >only know that you've posted when I see quotes in the responses. I have >> a >yahoo address for this list and it has been a

Re: [DNG] Debianising my uploaded version of netman.

Edward Bartolo wrote: >> No matter what you believe about this, overriding a command with itself >> is a pointless exercise. dh_auto_clean will be invoked as part of the >> 'dh clean' sequence, cf > > Please, refrain from using offensive and vulgar expressions. 'cf' is >

Re: [DNG] alternative to raspbian without systemd

Gregory Nowak wrote: > From what I read, the 2nd generation B has one 10/100 ethernet port > which is a network card on one of the pi's usb ports. Besides that, it > does have four usb ports, and you can hook up hubs to those as well of > course. That is correct - one 10/100

Re: [DNG] Init compatibility (was: SoylentNews discussion)

Steve Litt wrote: > In all daemontools-inspired process supervisors, dependency handling, > if you indeed need it, is just this easy: > > == > #!/bin/sh > if ping ; then > exec /path/to/app_depending_on_network > fi > sleep

Re: [DNG] Init compatibility (was: SoylentNews discussion)

Florian Zieboll wrote: > Seriously, what else besides dependencies on other daemons that have to > be running and some testing for the existence of certain (everything is) > files would be necessary to pass to a parser script, which could be > packaged with the respective init

Re: [DNG] Init compatibility (was: SoylentNews discussion)

Florian Zieboll wrote: > i was not talking about replacing sysvinit's shellscripts, but suggest > to implement a routine that creates them "on the fly" on installation > of a new daemon, from /one/ init-independent "meta" configuration file, > packaged with the daemon. OK, my

Re: [DNG] Killing background processes on logout [was Re: resolved]

Edward Bartolo wrote: > One strategy would be to deny > server access to anyone not using systemd. This would force Devuan to > set up an entirely independent infrastructure. I think, this may do > some serious disruption: be prepared as Devuan is not yet totally > divorced

Re: [DNG] How to acknowledge ported version of Open Source program?

Jack L. Frost wrote: > Yeah, I was going to say that too: a rewrite in another language is a > completely new piece of software ... I wouldn't be too sure. It will vary considerably on the details. At one extreme, you look at what the original is doing and write new code to

Re: [DNG] resolved

Steve Litt wrote: > I'm all for corporations making money. I get paid, why shouldn't they? Indeed. I find it "interesting" to hear some people suggesting they shouldn't have to pay for anything - and think that if anyone suggested they shouldn't get paid for

Re: [DNG] ifconfig vs ip

Simon Walter wrote: >> You don't need the tap port for that, the bridge will happily work >> without any ports statically assigned to it. > > And will I be able to set up iptables with just the bridge? I was thinking of > using shorewall. I've never used it before, but it

Re: [DNG] resolved

KatolaZ wrote: > Despite being originally intended as a "guerrilla weapon" (and RMS and > the others were very careful at designing it), copyleft is indeed the > only way to keep free software free, forever. Indeed. I've heard a few descriptions of RMS - most of them

Re: [DNG] secure boot

Didier Kryn wrote: > The dealer will just be instructed to not sell it to people who claim they > will do anything else than using the pre-installed Windows. Eventually yes. But it will make their management aware of us for them to issue the instruction. But bear in mind that a

Re: [DNG] secure boot

Hendrik Boom wrote: > How *do* we deal with secure boot? I am terrified of buying a new > machine because I'm afraid I won't get to install anything on it > wxcept for an OS from one of the big companies that have > sweetheart deals with Microsoft. Well (under UK

Re: [DNG] ..another new(?) step towards Debian systemd: linux-image-4.6.0-1[-rt]-amd-signed, with MSTF keys...

Edward Bartolo wrote: > I have been 'told' that any kernel can still be booted under UEFI > Secure Boot. For now, how long until that changes ? > Refer to forums.debian.net thread: > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=609579=c65ab3dc5f980e0c1f79b7b7a5116511#p609579 And

Re: [DNG] ifconfig vs ip

Simon Walter wrote: > After some testing, I have a question about an option in > /etc/default/shorewall: > wait_interface > If I add the bridge interface to that line, shorewall will not start unless a > container is brought up. I suppose that is why I was thinking of

Re: [DNG] ..another new(?) step towards Debian systemd: linux-image-4.6.0-1[-rt]-amd-signed, with MSTF keys...

Edward Bartolo wrote: > But I still am convinced with a signed kernel one can still use it to > boot any installed OS. My reasoning goes like this: once the signed > kernel boots, it would be in control of the machine. A running kernel > can be used to run any executable

Re: [DNG] [OT] [Re: Studying C as told. (For help)

KatolaZ wrote: > Be careful, because conditional expressions in C are subject to > "short-circuiting", meaning that only the minimum number of > expressions sufficient to determine the value of a chain of && and || > will be evaluated. In particular, a chain of ||

Re: [DNG] [OT] [Re: Studying C as told. (For help)

Irrwahn wrote: > We could. But it is a kludge, and very bad style. Is this the right time to introduce ... ... wait for it ... ... you're probably not going to like it ... ... no spoilers ... ... it is "safe for work" ... ... unless your work is writing C code

Re: [DNG] How to stop udev from re-ordering devices

Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> All in all, the easiest way by far is to use stable and user(admin) >> set names for interfaces ! > > This is going to bite you in the posterior in case of canned OS > installations intended to be usable on a wide range of differently >

Re: [DNG] Studying C as told. (For help)

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > Lastly, if the target system is Linux (as here), one can safely assume > that EBCDIC won't be used. > > None of this matter anyhow for solving algorithm exercises in an > entry-level book about a programming language. On the other hand, it

Re: [DNG] Studying C as told. (For help)

An interesting task would be to look at the various algorithms offered, work out how the compiler is likely to handle them when turning into code (or even look at the code generated), and then work out the efficiency of the different methods in terms of CPU cycles/character. Of course, it's

Re: [DNG] How to stop udev from re-ordering devices

Steve Litt wrote: > Good point. Here in my house, I trust everyone with a physical console, > so individual computers have simple or no firewalls. I'm running servers where you have to assume everyone is out to get you. > My Internet > firewall is pFSense, and every

Re: [DNG] How to stop udev from re-ordering devices

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > In absences of post hoc driver shuffling, these names *are not* > random. But as that's clearly something you're not willing to believe > in, this discussion seems pretty pointless. I think we must be making assumptions about what each other are

Re: [DNG] How to stop udev from re-ordering devices

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > Reportedly, Linux hotplug already had the same problem. OK, that's what I'd have been seeing in the past then. > During initialization, the kernel walks through the bus or busses it > finds in order to locate all devices and enables them by

Re: [DNG] How to stop udev from re-ordering devices

Steve Litt wrote: > Of all the escapades of FreeDesktop.Org, managers of Lennart and the > Redhats, these name thingies are some of the least onerous. I put a > shellscript on the list a few months ago that delivers the wifi device > name, and that script can be used

Re: [DNG] Startup delays (Was: The perversion continues)

Ozi Traveller wrote: > There's certainly a pause when boot, if my modem hasn't quite connected. > > And if I start the modem first, so it's connected properly, then it just > boots. That could be something much more mundane. If you have no internet connection, or

Re: [DNG] Startup delays (Was: The perversion continues)

Ozi Traveller wrote: > I also have a couple of non-systemd box connected to the same modem, and they > boot to a desktop without the wait. It's probably not systemd vs non-systemd. While it does cause me a bit of a choke to defend systemd, it's probably not

Re: [DNG] Startup delays (Was: The perversion continues)

Ozi Traveller wrote: > Debian Jessie boot the slowest. Ah, that'll be because of stuff that hasn't been "improved" into systemd yet ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..me, I do not see any point in keeping it mounted at all. > Whenever such a need arises, it should be mounted read-only. > If a need to write to /sys/firmware/efi/efivars should happen, > the machine should first be taken off-line, backed-up etc out > of

Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

Rainer H. Rauschenberg wrote: > I think this is the road that led to systemd -- if you think Linux needs > to be "as easy as Windows" you tend to take away all the aspects that made > it superior (in my view). I think I didn't really express my position very

Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

Didier Kryn wrote: >> for the real "general case", >> someone who blindly trusts the advice of strangers despite he doesn't >> understand it will end up getting himself in trouble sooner or later and >> probably rather sooner than later. > >Eg nearly any client of a

Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > Dave Turner writes: >> There seems to be an assumption that everybody is a 'power user' and >> knows exactly what they are doing. >> The reality is not like that at all. >> Leaving nasty surprises

Re: [DNG] Copyright and employers (Was: Wifi device names: was systemd is haunting me)

Steve Litt wrote: > You'd be hugely surprised at how literally some states in the US > interpret contracts. I live in (anti-employee) Florida, and a friend of > mine here in Florida was advised by his lawyer to not work for Linux for > the next 6 months because his

Re: [DNG] xserver-xorg-core in Debian unstable now requires libsystemd0

richard lucassen wrote: > I'm very pleased to see that someone is building a libsystemdfree xorg. > But what about security updates? And what about future versions? Who is > going to do that? What about the robustness of Devuan? Don't get me > wrong, I really like the

Re: [DNG] xserver-xorg-core in Debian unstable now requires libsystemd0

richard lucassen wrote: > I'd rather go for a, like Tobias suggested, a libsystemd telling > the package that is linked against, that it runs on a non-systemd > system. > But maybe that solution is too simple, clear and wrong. I think it's a *possible* solution and

Re: [DNG] Purchasing a new computer/laptop

Wim wrote: > I still have my previous model, I suppose I ought to try a native install on > it - and perhaps see if I can get OS X running as a VM. > > I would prefer dual booting personally, since running OSX in a VM isn't > always perfect. Fi, access to external

Re: [DNG] systemd is haunting me

Florian Zieboll wrote: > For the fun of it, I just ran an "apt-get install --install-recommends > --no-install-recommends" and it chose to not install the recommends. > The same with contradicting lines in apt.conf(.d/*): > > APT::Install-Recommends "0"; >

Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> Or the third option - mount r/o and remount r/w when needed. > > As I wrote in the original text, that's a extremely bad idea because > this means it may suddenly be affected by an already running command > never supposed to work with

Re: [DNG] Purchasing a new computer/laptop

Wim wrote: > I would take a look at that SATA cable AGAIN. These break far too often. And > when they break, they often don't break completely. Symptoms vary from weird > boot problems, to the OS going corrupt, to a general slow drive. No, definitely a "hard" fault. While

Re: [DNG] Runlevels (Was: Lead BusyBox developer on sysvinit)

Matthew Melton wrote: > What you are describing is a state machine? > Each run level is a stable state representing what is running (or supposed to > be). Something needs to trigger (change of input or "change of runlevel") > Each stable state has an "init" transition

Re: [DNG] Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

KatolaZ wrote: > Well, not everybody pays his bills developing open source software, > but if I were a Debian developer, who had adhered to the debian Social > Contract [1], I would find it difficult to organise a fest to > celebrate Microsoft offering Debian as an option

Re: [DNG] Apparently Jessie has runit

Daniel Reurich wrote: > perhaps doing the same thing as init-system-helpers dh_systemd package > to add support for runit into each respective package. That's the logical way to do it - the init script(s) should be part of the package. The downside of that is the

Re: [DNG] Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

Didier Kryn wrote: >It's absolutely amazing that one can be a Debian developper and a member > of Microsoft in the same time. Yes, that's an ethical break down of the whole > Debian project. I think some people are reading more into this than they should. There is no reason

Re: [DNG] Apparently Jessie has runit

Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> - Some headers to tell utilities what runlevels the service should run >> at, and dependencies. > > That's a LSB invention. It's a grotesque travesty as it uses 'magic > comments' to embed a declarative mini programming language in an

Re: [DNG] Debian is endorsed by Microsoft

dev1fanboy wrote: > So for having our own values we are a "hardcore cult", how dare we voice our > opinions or stand up for our values (like anyone else in the free software > community, btw). Better yet, let's go back to debian because otherwise we're > elitists.

Re: [DNG] Apparently Jessie has runit

Mat wrote: >> That's the logical way to do it - the init script(s) should be part of the >> package. The downside of that is the requirement for every package >> maintainer (team) to understand and support multiple init systems - or for >> someone supporting an init system

Re: [DNG] Apparently Jessie has runit

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > The commands which are actually executed via these S- and K-links come > from individual packages and ultimatively contain whatever the people > responsible for that considered sensible. Which is usually a pretty > arbitrary assortment of

Re: [DNG] Purchasing a new computer/laptop.

Mitt Green wrote: > They can request a refund before activating the > license, but will actually receive a smaller amount of > money than they spent, if some at all at all. I recall reading how one person, after a fight to get anything, got much more ! This isn't the case

Re: [DNG] Purchasing a new computer/laptop

Robert Storey wrote: > Since the Mac doesn't have a ctrl key, the following was a particularly > relevant post: Really ? Mine does, there between the fn and alt keys - standard UK keyboard on a MacBook Pro. I think it will be model/keyboard specific. You can always

Re: [DNG] Beware

Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > By now, the concept of unprivileged local users is a little obsolete anyway. > > Today, hosts generally serve only one unix user, there generally is only one > local user of one host, and that local user is the user that owns everything >

Re: [DNG] lilo development has ended

Didier Kryn wrote: > I don't think Grub2 is all about pretty colours though. The veteran admin > likes to have a bootloader which is easy to configure, but the random admin, > likes to have a working multi-boot bootloader at the end of the installation. Indeed, and when

Re: [DNG] Purchasing a new computer/laptop

Robert Storey wrote: > So maybe I should ask: Have you tried installing Linux on your MacBook? If > so, how was the experience? Any advice about that? Any nonsense to deal with > similar to Microsoft's "secure boot"? (if you answered those questions > already in

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