Re: [DNG] IQAudIO DAC PRO (from: Lennart now working for Microsoft)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Tue, 12 Jul 10:35:08 +0200
 Edward Bartolo via Dng scripsit:
> [...]
>
> Regrettably, I have it running on my raspberry pi mini-computer
> because I could not find a way to let the OS recognise and use an
> IQAudIO DAC PRO hat (a sound card). If Devuan can do it, that would be
> the death knell of my installation using the blessed systemd.
>
> Thanks to all for using and supporting Devuan.
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systemd does no black magic to initialize your audio hat, it just loads the 
correct kernel module. Followed the steps in the manual (chapter 3) 
https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/iqaudio/iqaudio-product-brief.pdf and see it 
it's autodetected. If not, load the module by hand.

Nik


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Re: [DNG] moving to a new system

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Fri, 24 Jun 09:05:39 -0500
 o1bigtenor via Dng scripsit:
> Greetings
>
> Hoping that I'm not asking too many questions.
>
> (moving from debian testing to devuan testing (daedalus)
> the old system is under 5.17.xx and the new one is on 5.18
> if that makes for differences)
>
> (I've learnt the hard way that just winging things means a LOT more
> work and even a greater chance for issues.)
>
> My existing system has been a work in progress for over 10 years. So
> I've gotten things
> set up quite the way that I like them so things change slowly but in
> that there are also
> less 'terror' moments when everything has gone 'goofy'.
>
> Is there any way to move over things like settings (and all the other
> pamphernania) for browsers and libreoffice and the like?
>
> I was thinking of doing things by using scp from the old system to the new 
> one.
>
> Dunno if that would create issues or not.
>
> Any better ideas - - - - well I'm all ears!!!

Move your home directory to the new system ... and use rsync, not scp.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] strange effect on overwrite

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

This does not make sense to me:
> >> dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1
> >>
> >> reports 2.6 GB (expected)
IMO ~ 1GB is expected, not 2.6:

$ dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1
1+0 Datensätze ein
1+0 Datensätze aus
1073741824 Bytes (1,1 GB, 1,0 GiB) kopiert, 0,617959 s, 1,7 GB/s

Nik

Anno domini 2022 Thu, 23 Jun 14:27:59 +0200
 Radisson via Dng scripsit:
> Its a normal HD i guess 4096 is ok,
> but i do not think that this matters.
> 
> 
> Am 23.06.22 um 13:11 schrieb Rich W:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A blocksize of 1G seems extreme.
> > What is the optimal blocksize of the output device?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Rich
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 4:52 AM Radisson via Dng  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi list,
> >> i found a strange ext4 (?) effect.
> >>
> >> when i write to a disk:
> >> dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1
> >>
> >> reports 2.6 GB (expected)
> >> doing again speed drops to 200MB.
> >>
> >> removing xx restores old speed.
> >>
> >> I ask the net and it seems that the effect is there
> >> since kernel 2.6. I found the explainations a bit confusing.
> >>
> >> does anyone know more ?
> >>
> >> note: i was analysing a performace issue for mysql and i am
> >> not sure if that problems matters outside tests.
> >>
> >> re
> >> rp
> >>
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> >>
> >
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Re: [DNG] vdev in chimaera

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Fri, 27 May 15:11:24 +0200
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 26/05/2022 à 13:26, k...@aspodata.se a écrit :
> > The kernel devtmpfs makes dev files come and go, yes, but they
> > will have some default user, group and permission setting, so
> > *dev daemons handle that part.
> 
>      Yes, I forgot this point.
> 
>      However handling permission and ownership is a simple task. 
> Couldn't it be done by a script fed by inotifywait ?
> 
>      'inotifywait -mqe create --format %f /dev | PermissionManager.sh'
> 
>      An oversimple hotplugger (~:

Once upon a time there was /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug which did this.

Nik

> 
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> 
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Re: [DNG] Hardware support for new Thinkpad?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Sun, 24 Apr 07:28:38 -0400
 . via Dng scripsit:
> I just got a Thinkpad P1 gen 4, and Chimaera doesn't recognize the 
> audio, camera, or HDMI port (not to mention the fingerprint sensor in 
> the power switch).  I could use some guidance in what to look for...
> 
> It has a Tiger Lake-H processor, I don't know what chipset.  I think I 
> need a command like "lspci" to identify the multimedia hardware, but I 
> don't know what to look for.
> 
> For what it's worth, the last couple of releases of Ubuntu *do* support 
> the multimedia hardware.  Do I need to move to Daedalus?  If so, is 
> there an install package for that?
> 
> Thanks for any help in getting this machine up on Devuan.
> 
> -Bob Montante
> 
> 

Have you tried devuan/deadalus, too?

Nik

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Re: [DNG] installing Wine 32

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Sun, 27 Mar 15:47:43 -0400
 Haines Brown scripsit:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 06:44:13PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Anno domini 2022 Sun, 27 Mar 10:55:12 -0400
> >  Haines Brown scripsit:
> > > I'm running Chimaera and trying to play an old CDROM. I assume
> > > simplest way is to install wine. When I try to play the cdrom with
> > > wine64 I am told wine 32 is missing. I proceed to install
> > > wine and wine32.
> > >
> > > Installation of wine tells me that wine 5.0.3-3 is already
> > > installed.
> > >
> > > I proceed to install wine32. I'm told:
> > >
> > >wine32:i386 : Depends: libc6:i386 (>= 2.28) but it is not
> > >   going to be installed
> > >  Depends: libwine:i386 (= 5.0.3-3) but it
> > >   is not installable
> > >
> > > An attempt to install the former lists dozens of dependendencies
> > > that are not going to be installed.  Same for libwine:386
> > >
> > > I'm afraid of breaking applications.  Shouldn't the
> > > installation of an application in the Chimaera repositroy
> > > be simpler than this?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I have wine installed, but it's 6.0.3, not 5.0.3 - did you do a "apt 
> > update" before you tried?
>
> Your suggestion made me feel rather guilty until I checked after doing 
> update/upgrade
>
>   $ aptitude show wine | less
>   Version: 5.0.3-3
>   State: installed
>
> Are you running Ceres?
>

Ooops, my bad. You are right, ceres it is.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] installing Wine 32

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Hi!

Anno domini 2022 Sun, 27 Mar 10:55:12 -0400
 Haines Brown scripsit:
> I'm running Chimaera and trying to play an old CDROM. I assume
> simplest way is to install wine. When I try to play the cdrom with
> wine64 I am told wine 32 is missing. I proceed to install
> wine and wine32.
>
> Installation of wine tells me that wine 5.0.3-3 is already
> installed.
>
> I proceed to install wine32. I'm told:
>
>wine32:i386 : Depends: libc6:i386 (>= 2.28) but it is not
>   going to be installed
>  Depends: libwine:i386 (= 5.0.3-3) but it
>   is not installable
>
> An attempt to install the former lists dozens of dependendencies
> that are not going to be installed.  Same for libwine:386
>
> I'm afraid of breaking applications.  Shouldn't the
> installation of an application in the Chimaera repositroy
> be simpler than this?
>
>

I have wine installed, but it's 6.0.3, not 5.0.3 - did you do a "apt update" 
before you tried?

Nik



ii  fonts-wine  6.0.3~repack-1  
   all  Windows API implementation - fonts
ii  libwine:amd64   6.0.3~repack-1  
   amd64Windows API implementation - library
ii  libwine:i3866.0.3~repack-1  
   i386 Windows API implementation - library
ii  wine6.0.3~repack-1  
   all  Windows API implementation - standard suite
ii  wine32:i386 6.0.3~repack-1  
   i386 Windows API implementation - 32-bit binary 
loader
ii  wine64  6.0.3~repack-1  
   amd64Windows API implementation - 64-bit binary 
loader
ii  winetricks  0.0+20210206-2  
   all  simple tool to work around common problems 
in Wine


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Re: [DNG] No-Internet Devuan Installer?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Thu, 24 Feb 14:25:06 -0600
 goli...@devuan.org scripsit:
> On 2022-02-24 14:14, Steve Litt wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Let's say, just for fun, that I expected to be permanently disconnected
> > from the Internet, but still wanted to use my computer, kind of how I
> > used my computer 1985-1995. Is there a way I could install Chimera on
> > DVDs so that I could install Chimera, on any computer with a DVD drive,
> > and use it? Please remember the expectation of permanent disconnection
> > from the Internet, so that security wouldn't be much of an issue.
> >
> > In other words, I'm asking if there's a way I could have a Chimera
> > install DVD set that would act like the Linux install sets back in the
> > 1990's, when there was not an assumption you'd have a connection to the
> > Internet.
> >
> > With Devuan, what would be my best way of doing this, if any?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > SteveT
> >
>
> Isn't that exactly what
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/
>
> and
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/
> devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_desktop.iso and
> devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_i386_desktop.iso
>
> do?

And you'd need to burn the packages of all extra software you want (e.g. *-dev) 
+ dependecies - in  case that you want to install them later. Might turn out 
that you need a copy of http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/dists/chimaera-* of 
whatever architecture you want to use. Don't know how big a copy of one 
architecture might be, but I guess you should use BD instead of DVD.

Nik

>
> golinux
>
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Re: [DNG] Another reason for why I use Devuan

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Mon, 21 Feb 18:08:20 +
 Arnt Karlsen scripsit:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:44:12 -0300, Gastón wrote in message 
> <20220218054412.ga5...@devuan.devuan.com.ar>:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 10:52:43PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:41:59PM -0800, Syeed Ali wrote:  
> > > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:25:05 -1000
> > > > Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
> > > >   
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 05:55:49PM -0700, Keith Christian via
> > > > > Dng wrote:  
> > > > > > This describes the machine ID:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html
> > > > > >  
> > > > > 
> > > > > So a creation of the freedesktop folks.   
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I like this quote:
> > > >   
> > > > > It should be considered "confidential", and must not be exposed
> > > > > in untrusted environments,
> > > > > ...  
> > > 
> > > Just checked.  On my pure devuan system,
> > > there is no /etc/machine-id filre,
> > > but there is a /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
> > > 
> > > Should I worry?  
> 
> ..dunno, chk
> https://www.mail-archive.com/dng@lists.dyne.org/msg24726.html
> 
> > I leave here the link to the thread with the discussion about
> > machine-id that occurred in this list in 2019
> > 
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/dng@lists.dyne.org/msg24687.html
> > 
> > In /etc/default/dbus you can set the IDTYPE to be a RANDOM value.
> 
> ..thanks for the remainder, I had a feeling I had forgotten something
> of importance updating a wee spare ascii disk install to chimaera.

IMO it's set to RANDOM by default, at leaset it is on my machines. But I run 
daedalus.

Nik

> 
> ..lost a coupla days worth of emails and command line history in my 1GB 
> stopped dead disk, after getting distracted from backup-ing blue smoking
> the red and blue wiring off my other Precision M4400, crisy clear green
> monochrome at 1920x1200@60Hz didn't leave enough video memory for any X 
> on any plug-in screen, all the while while the consoles were annoyingly
> consoling. ;oD
> 



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[DNG] "xdg-open" alternative for "open" ... what?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

I ran into this som days ago and want to ask for your opinion:

"xdg-utils" on chimera installs an alternative to itself as 
"/etc/alternative/open" and an alternative manpage 
"/etc/alternative/open.1.gz". In consequence "man open" does not give the 
"open" manpage from section 2 as it did till chimera, but the manpage of 
"xdg-open" - which is quite surprising, as the alternative does not fall in 
category 1 pf the manpages but IMO at best in category 7. There are a lot of 
other programs that "open" something, but non is so blunt to call itself THE 
open-command that deserves category 1. Also it's toatally unclear why that 
alternative exists in the first place, 'cause no program uses "open" when it 
wants to call "xdg-open". It could be that stuff from freedesktop.org uses 
"open" instead of "xdg-open" now, but that does not make any sense and I have 
not found any evidence of this.

What's your take on this?

Nik


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Re: [DNG] PHP 8.1 depends on systemd?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Sat, 29 Jan 12:47:14 +0100
 Mathieu ROY via Dng scripsit:
> Hello,
>
> Trying to upgrade to PHP 8.1, I found out it now depends on systemd or
> systemd-tmpfiles (no package available).
>
> https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/php8.1-fpm
>
> Is it a choice made on Debian side or is PHP now really depending on
> systemd?

When you build PHP from https://www.php.net/distributions/php-8.1.2.tar.gz it 
does not depend on systemd.

Nik

>
>
> Regards,
>
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Re: [DNG] Genuine, legitimate Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video: Was: Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Sun, 16 Jan 15:58:36 -0500
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> ael via Dng said on Sun, 16 Jan 2022 11:56:51 +
>
> >On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 04:12:44AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> >>
> >> This was discussed on the devuan-offtopic IRC channel, so I watched
> >> the video:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E
> >
> >But youtube has become impossible to watch with hideous intrusive
> >
> >A bit off topic, I know...
>
> Yes, and for that reason I wish you'd changed the subject line to
> reflect your message.
>
> Now, does anybody have anything to say about the CONTENT of the video
> at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E ?

It's a short version of "UNIX: A History and a Memoir" ISBN: 978-1695978553. If 
you are too young to have at least a faint memory of that ear I'd suggest you 
get a copy :)

Nik



>
>
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>
> Steve Litt
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Sun, 16 Jan 11:56:51 +
 ael via Dng scripsit:
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 04:12:44AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > This was discussed on the devuan-offtopic IRC channel, so I watched the
> > video:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E
>
> But youtube has become impossible to watch with hideous intrusive
> deviant advertisements... And google seem to have found a way to make
> youtube-dl hopelessly slow. Not to mention that the YT viewer is
> dire: you can't slow down or speed up etc like, say, mpv.

Install umatrix + ublock-origin and that pestilence is gone. Be aware that 
you'll have to fiddle with umatrix to get videos playing.

yt-download is gon with the wind. Use a fork  like yt-ldp 
https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp - that's what I have in use.

>
> A bit off topic, I know...
>
> Does anyone know of a way of accessing youtube nowadays without wasting
> huge amounts of time and losing the will to live and all concentration
> before getting to the proper topic (etc)?

No. yt is broken, since "AI" took over.

Nik

>
> ael
>
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Re: [DNG] [OT] bash / quote weirdness

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Thu, 13 Jan 15:43:29 +0100
 Antony Stone scripsit:
> On Thursday 13 January 2022 at 15:07:22, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 05:45:08PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ cat -n /etc/fstab | cut -b 1-20 |  head -n5
> > >
> > >  1UUID=730eaf92
> > >  2UUID=41abb5fd
> > >  3UUID=96cfdfb3
> > >  4UUID=6F66-BF7
> > >  5tmpfs /tmp tm
> > >
> > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ "cat -n" /etc/fstab | cut -b 1-20 |  head -n5
> > > bash: cat -n: command not found
> > >
> > > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ "cat -n /etc/fstab" | cut -b 1-20 |  head -n5
> > > bash: cat -n /etc/fstab: No such file or directory
> >
> > So if it has parameters it's a command, and if it diesn't it's just
> > a file or directory?
>
> It looks a good deal more complicated than that...
>
> $ "cat /etc/fstab"
> bash: cat /etc/fstab: No such file or directory
>
> $ "cat fstab"
> bash: cat fstab: command not found
>
> I have no idea what's really going on here.

Your example misses a minor detail. "" and '' build strings with/without 
variable substitution (e.g. A="cat /etc/fstab"). When passed as a not-quoted 
variable (e.g. $A) to the current shell the whole string is broken up into 
arguments at whitespaces (e.g. $A -> "cat" "/etc/fstab"), the first argument is 
the command that gets passed all remaining arguments including pipe symbols 
('|'). A quoted variable is passed as one argument ("$A" -> "car /etc/fstab") - 
if it's the only argument then that programm/command/function is evaluated and 
is most likely to fail. Note that the pipe symbol ("|") as part of a string is 
passed as an argument or part of an argument to argument 0 (command) and does 
not build a pipe.

Nik


>
>
> Antony.
>



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Re: [DNG] request for assistance

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2022 Fri, 7 Jan 05:01:46 -0600
 o1bigtenor via Dng scripsit:
> Greetings
>
> Basic question is: what happened?
>
> I wanted to update a beowulf system.
> So did the apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
> after changing the references in /etc/apt/sources.list
> from beowulf to chimaera.
>
> After reboot - - - well - - - screen says devuan but
> uname -r is 4.19.xx and not 5.10.xx
>
> Any ideas as to how I update the kernel?

Most likely you have 2 kernels installed, but GRUB loads the old one. Check 
that with
$ dpkg -l|grep linux-image

If so, then uninstall the old kernel and reboot. If not, install the new kernel 
with
# apt-get install linux-image-5.

Nik

>
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Re: [DNG] Ryzen?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 27 Dec 18:54:41 +0100
 Antony Stone scripsit:
> Hi.
>
> Disclaimer: I generally don't like people saying things like "I read somewhere
> that..." without backing up what they're talking about, but...
>
> I'm sure I've read somewhere (and not especially recently) that Linux on AMD
> Ryzen CPUs can be unreliable and/or surprisingly poor performance.
>
> Can anyone comment on current (eg: Beowulf / Chimaera with standard kernels)
> operation on such machines?

I have on my desktop a AMD Ryzen 5 3600 + MSI B550-A PRO and run chimaera + 
TDE. Quite satisfied with the setup, I just had problems with GRUB (boot 
timeout must  be 0 .. or do not pres any key).

Nik

>
> If it matters, I'm looking at desktop / tower / server motherboards and not
> laptops, and I don't care two hoots about graphics - this would be for
> networked machines accessed exclusively remotely.
>
> Any opinions from personal experience, or pointers to reliable data, on the
> topic would be appreciated :)
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Antony.
>



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Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 26 Nov 15:33:11 -0500
 Ken Dibble scripsit:
> On 11/26/21 1:57 PM, d...@d404.nl wrote:
> > On 26-11-2021 17:27, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> >> On 2021-11-26 05:08, Peter Duffy wrote:
> >>> It's a bit like the charlatans and fake doctors in past centuries.
> >>> They'd invent an illness, and then claim to have a remedy for it:
> >>>
> >>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marthambles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> LOL! Isn't that exactly what big pharma is still doing with direct 
> >> marketing to consumers of their latest "cure" for a newly discovered 
> >> "disease"?
> >>
> >> golinux
> >> ___
> >> Dng mailing list
> >> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> >
> > Well, big pharma does do some research and sometimes come with new and 
> > useful medication. But it is true that they spend more on marketing 
> > than on research.
> >
> > Grtz
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > ___
> > Dng mailing list
> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> 
> I am not trying to create problems of any type.  I would honestly like 
> the source of the claim that big pharma spends more on marketing than on 
> research, before I repeat it, and am left without a defense.

5% R&D, 45% Marketing, 50% profit - at least these were the last published 
numbers. Sorry, I just have a source in german:
https://www.amazon.de/Lizenz-Pl%C3%BCndern-multilaterale-Abkommen-Investitionen/dp/3434530177

This book ist not the newest, but it has valid numbers. And both authors have 
quite a name :)

Nik

> 
> 
> Ken
> 
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Re: [DNG] What not to back up

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 23 Nov 21:39:07 +0200
 Lars Noodén via Dng scripsit:
> On 11/23/21 21:27, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > I'm setting up a new backup script that will do it all piecemeal so
> > that if a part of it fails, it can be retried without having to start
> > *everythng* over from scratch.
> [snip]
> 
> It depends on what you've set up.
> 
> For the systems I have, I only back up the configuration files in /etc/
> plus the output of
>   dpkg --get-selections
> The restoration plan is to do a fresh installation and restore with
>   dpkg --set-selections

I prefer "apt-mark showmanual" :)

$ dpkg --get-selections|wc -l
3474
$ apt-mark showmanual|wc -l
904

nik

> 
> Then for the data, it is /var/ and /home/, with special treatment for
> any live databases if needed.  I don't use /srv/ or /opt/ for anything.
> 
>  > But what about
>  >
>  > /run
>  > /srv
>  > /sys
>  > ?
>  >
>  > What are those even used for?
> 
> See "man 7 hier"
> 
> """
>   /run   This  directory  contains information which describes
>   the system since it was booted.  Once this purpose
>   was served  by  /var/run and programs may continue
>   to use it.
> 
>   /srv   This directory contains site-specific data  that  is
>   served by this system.
> 
>   /sys   This is a mount point for the sysfs filesystem, which
>   provides information about the kernel like /proc, but
>   better structured, following the formalism of kobject
>   infrastructure.
> """
> 
> 
> 
> /Lars
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Re: [DNG] What not to back up

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 23 Nov 14:27:56 -0500
 Hendrik Boom scripsit:
> I'm setting up a new backup script that will do it all piecemeal so 
> that if a part of it fails, it can be retried without having to start 
> *everythng* over from scratch.
> 
> Which top-level filesystems should *not* be backed up.


Question is: What do you want the backup for? Recover from a failed disk in 5 
minutes or "just" all your settings and user directories? I for myself do not 
bother to save the OS, a list of all manually installed packages is good enough 
for me.

Nik 

> 
> To start with, I presumably shouldn't back up
> 
> /proc
> /tmp
> /dev (cause I'm using some version of *udev)
> /mnt
> 
> and I certainly should back up /var, /usr. /root, /bin, 
> /boot, /etc, /home, /lib, /lib64, /sbin
> 
> But what about
> 
> /run
> /srv
> /sys
> ?
> 
> What are those even used for?
> 
> -- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 19 Nov 13:56:17 +0100
 al3xu5 via Dng scripsit:
> Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:45:48 +0100 - "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng"
> :
> 
> > Anno domini 2021 Fri, 19 Nov 07:33:09 -0500
> >  Rich W via Dng scripsit:
> > > Sadly, this will probably never change.
> > > 
> > > They used the same argument to choose Windows adimins over Linux ones
> > > in the past.  
> > 
> > Which basicly translates to "I want to pay less".
> 
> ... but pay (probably more) for RH "support" plans

Definitly. And when that does not work out, search somebody that works for 
free, 'caus "we already payed XXX and it dod not help".

Nik

> 
> 
> Regards
> al3xu5
> 



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Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 19 Nov 07:33:09 -0500
 Rich W via Dng scripsit:
> Sadly, this will probably never change.
> 
> They used the same argument to choose Windows adimins over Linux ones in
> the past.

Which basicly translates to "I want to pay less".

Nik

> 
> -Rich
> (Apologies if gmail client messed up this thread)
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 7:14 AM Antony Stone <
> antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it> wrote:
> 
> > On Friday 19 November 2021 at 12:06:48, Didier Kryn wrote:
> >
> > > Le 19/11/2021 à 12:29, Peter Duffy a écrit :
> > > > I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number of
> > > > linux servers, and I proposed going to devuan. In response, I've had a
> > > > concern raised which took me by surprise. It was suggested that in the
> > > > future, it may not be possible to find staff who have the skills to
> > > > administer and manage servers running non-systemd or pre-systemd
> > > > distros/releases.
> >
> > > I suggest that professional admins haven't blinkers like horses and
> > > are supposed to be educated enough to be able to learn even a completely
> > > new OS.
> >
> > This is true, but it's not the techies who are the concern - it's the
> > employers - they're going to ask for "Red Hat admins", or ask interview
> > questions about managing systemd machines.
> >
> > You might be capable of learning all sorts of stuff, but an employer wants
> > you
> > to know about it on day one and start doing the job.
> >
> >
> > Antony.
> >
> > --
> > I think broken pencils are pointless.
> >
> >Please reply to the
> > list;
> >  please *don't* CC
> > me.
> > ___
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> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> >
> 



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Re: [DNG] Embedded devuan (was Re: Devuan with usr merge?)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 16 Nov 14:19:59 +0100
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 16/11/2021 à 12:15, onefang a écrit :
> > http://landley.net/aboriginal/about.html is what I used for my last
> > embedded Linux project.
> >
> > "Aboriginal Linux is a shell script that builds the smallest/simplest
> > linux system capable of rebuilding itself from source code. This
> > currently requires seven packages: linux, busybox, uClibc, binutils, gcc,
> > make, and bash."
> 
>     Aboriginal is nice and Rob Landley is doing a great job. But are you
> sure about uClibc. I thought Aboriginal had switched to Musl years ago.
> uClibc is pretty far from POSIX compliance, and also from Glibc, which
> would make the system difficult to use as a build platform, although
> otherwise functional, of course. AFAIR, Rob Landley is developping his
> binutils mostly because of a disagreement with Busybox license.

Is it still under devlopment? The archives end 2016.

I like to use "buildroot" for my embedded systems.

Nik

> 
>     Here's a comparison of C libraries (by Rich felker, the author of
> musl). Unfortunately it is dated from 2014. Since that time, all
> librares should have made progress.
> http://www.etalabs.net/compare_libcs.html
> 
> 
> --     Didier
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] lpr command not working

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 16 Nov 08:03:21 -0500
 Haines Brown scripsit:
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:28:57PM +1100, Ralph Ronnquist via Dng wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:21:15 -0500
> > Haines Brown  wrote:
> > > These problems I'll pursue, but my pont is that none of the ways to
> > > get access to the lpr command are workig.
> > 
> > 
> > use: $ lpstat -d -v -p
> > to list which the default printer is and which pringters there are
> 
>   $ lpstat -d -v  -p
>   no system default destination
>   lpstat: Bad file descriptor
>   lpstat: Bad file descriptor
> 
> > use: # lpadmin -d "$queue"
> > to set $queue as the default for cups and lpr
> 
> I'm unsure whether you are telling me now to set the queue for CUPS 
> or if I need to set it to "queue". 
> 
> I do # /etc/cups/diff -y cupsd.conf cupsd.conf.O | less .
> I discover that is it cups.conf. not cups.conf.
> So "O" means Original?
> 
> My current cupsd.conf has line Port 631 vs. Listen localhost:631
> 
> My current location is 
> 
> 
> # Allow shared printing... 
> Order allow,deny   
> Allow @LOCAL   
> 
> 
> the file cupsd.conf.O has 
> 
>   
>   # Restrict access to the server...
> Order allow,deny
>   
> 
> One thing I could is to backup /etc/cups/cupsd.conf and replace
> it with cupsd.conf.O and reinstall the printer. Would you suggest
> doing this? 
>  
> > (using cups-lpr)
> 
> what does this mean?
> 

You need to install "cups-bsd", which has a cups version of "lpr". And you need 
to install "cups", as it "cupsd" is not running.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] lpr command not working

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 15 Nov 10:52:06 -0500
 Haines Brown scripsit:
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 12:55:59PM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> > I reinstalled a printer on a Chimaera box. The CUPS test file prints
> > just fine. The lpr  > to the printer. Status: Processing - "Sending data to printer." Some 15 
> > min (?) later the job does print.
> > 
> > A possible problem is that I cannot delete the old printer definition 
> > from CUPS. When I go to Administration -> Printers, the status of the 
> > old printer Idle, Accepting Jobs, Not Shared. 
> > 
> > Under its Administration I select Delete Printer and verify that I want
> > it deleted. This  returns the message that it has been successfully 
> > deleted. Yet it is still listed in Administration.
> > 
> > A problem might be that the printer can't be deleted because it is
> > shared by other systems despite its status. Where can I uncheck 
> > printer-is-shared for remote queues. Its status is Idle, Accepting 
> > Jobs, Not Shared. The best I can do is change its status to Rejecting 
> > Jobs. Restartintg CUPS sever did not help.  The status of the printer 
> > I'm trying to delete is Not shared. But I can't deetete it.
> 
> I finally managed to delete the unwanted printer by deleting CUPS
> from the machine running it. However, lpr still does not work. The
> problem is that no default printer is defined.
> 
> $ lpstat -d
> no system default destination
> 
> I'm using a HP Laserjet1320 with USB printer under Chimaera.
> 
> I try to set the default:
> 
> CUPS -> Printers lists my printer as:
> 
> HP_LaserJet_1320_series
> 
> So I set that printer as to be default:
> 
> $ sudo lpoptions -d HP_LaserJet_1320_series
> copies=1 
> device-uri=hp:/usb/hp_LaserJet_1320_series?serial=00CNL1F33212
>   finishings=3 job-cancel-after=10800 job-hold-until=no-hold
>   job-priority=50 job-sheets=none,none marker-change-time=0
>   media=na_letter_8.5x11in number-up=1 output-bin=face-down
>   print-color-mode=monochrome 
> printer-commands=AutoConfigure,Clean,PrintSel
>   fTestPage printer-info='HP LaserJet 1320 series'
>   printer-is-accepting-jobs=true printer-is-shared=true
>   printer-is-temporary=false printer-location='Local Printer'
>   printer-make-and-model='HP LaserJet 1320 series Postscriipt
>   (recommended)' printer-state=3 printer-state-change-time=1636985393
>   printer-state-reasons=none printer-type=8425556 printer-uri-suppo-
>   
> rted=ipp://localhost/printers/HP_LaserJet_1320_series_USB_00CNL1F332>
> _HPLIP sides=one-sided
> 
> But there is still no default value
> 
> $ lpstat -d
> no system default destination
> 
> When I specify the printer by providing lpr with -P option:
> 
> $ lpr -PHP_LaserJet_1320_series test.txt
> lpr: HP_LaserJet_1320_series: unknown printer
> 
> I do lsmod to make sure that ppdev, parport, parport_pc modules are loaded.
> 
> CUPS lists only one other driver for the LaserJet 1320 which is pcl3,hpcups 
> 3.21. 
> But when I use it I get error: Unsupported document-format 
> "application/vnd.cups-command".
> 
> $ a2ps testFiles/test.txt
> [testFiles/test.txt (plain): 1 page on 1 sheet]
> /usr/bin/lp: Error - No default destination.
> [Total: 1 page on 1 sheet] sent to the default printer
> 
> $ lpq
> no entries

Although the lpr manpage says it uses LPDEST and PRINTER environment variables 
"lpr" does not, nor does it look for any of cups other ways to define a default 
printer. IMO all other lp* from cups work as documented. 

I got "lpr" working by giving host and printer:

$ ls | lpr -H printserver -P MFC-J5320DW_EINSEITIG

It might be that you have to set the hostname explictly to localhost.

Nik



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[DNG] polkitd not starting after update

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

I just got hit by a nasty problem: /usr/libexec/polkitd does not start any 
more. I updated an older system (chimaera, but was unused for ~ 6 months) to 
the latest chimaera. I have to start it manually from rc.local. The same 
happened to udisksd, I have to start it manually from rc.local after polkitd. 

Does anybody know where I can find a clue why polkitd does not start?

Nik




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Re: [DNG] Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

This is good news! Thank you :)

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 14 Oct 11:00:33 -0400
 Mason Loring Bliss scripsit:
> Dear Friends and Software Freedom Lovers,
> 
> Devuan Developers are pleased to announce the release of Devuan Chimaera
> 4.0 as the project's newest stable release. This is the result of lots of
> painstaking work by the team and extensive testing by the wider Devuan
> community.
> 
> ---
> What's new in Chimaera 4.0?
> 
> * Based on Debian Bullseye (11.1) with Linux kernel 5.10.
> * Your choice of init: sysvinit, runit, and OpenRC.
> * Improved desktop support - virtually all desktop environments available
>   in Debian are now part of Devuan, systemd-free.
> * New boot, display manager and desktop theming.
> * Enhanced accessibility: installation via GUI or console can now be
>   accomplished via software or hardware speech synthesis, or using a
>   refreshable braille display, and Devuan Chimaera has the ability to
>   install desktop environments without PulseAudio, allowing speech
>   synthesis in both console and GUI sessions at the same time.
> 
> ---
> Installation and Documentation
> 
> Whether you are upgrading an existing Devuan install, migrating from Debian
> or installing from scratch, instructions and guidance can be found online:
> 
> https://devuan.org/os/install
> https://devuan.org/get-devuan.
> 
> Packages, netboot images and installation media are available through a
> resilient network of http package mirrors, http, https, ftp and rsync iso
> mirrors, torrent and magnet.
> 
> Please take time to read the Release Notes. They include important
> configuration information and tips to help your install or upgrade go as
> smoothly as possible.
> 
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/Release_notes.txt
> 
> For the impatient, you can go straight to the package and sources.list
> information or the installation media downloads:
> 
> https://devuan.org/os/packages
> http://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/
> 
> ---
> Resources and Support
> 
> * Mailing list: https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> * IRC: #devuan #devuan-dev (Libera)
> * Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org
> * Press contact: free...@devuan.org
> * Source code: https://git.devuan.org
> * Bug tracker: https://bugs.devuan.org
> * Package information: https://pkginfo.devuan.org
> * Popularity contest: https://popcon.devuan.org
> 
> ---
> After Chimaera
> 
> The next Devuan release, 5.0, is codenamed Daedalus. Repositories are
> already available for the adventurous to test.
> 
> ---
> Appreciation
> 
> We wish to thank all of you for the incredible support given to Devuan.
> Without your help and feedback, Devuan could not be the reliable and
> versatile distribution that it is.
> 
> To support the Devuan project you can examine our financial reports and
> donate at:
> 
> https://devuan.org/donate
> 
> ---
>Live long and prosper!
> The Devuan Development Team 
> ---
> 



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Re: [DNG] Review of documentation needed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Anno domini 2021 Sat, 18 Sep 17:12:54 +0200
 Ludovic Bellière via Dng scripsit:
> Hello golinux.
> 
> I found a reference to a dead software used in the *Network Configuration*
> section. wicd is recommended as network manager, however it is no longer
> distributed by debian. It has been removed because it is written in python2, 
> and
> there has been no release since 2014.
> 
> As I do not use any manager on my system, I remain unaware of a possible
> replacement. I did, however, look quickly and noticed connman which advertize
> itself as a slim and low on resources.
> 
> As a quick poll, does anybody has a prefered network manager?

network-manager, as it has a TDE package network-manager-tde and that's the 
desktop I  use. And it just works.

Nik


> 
> 
>   Ludovic
> 
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> 
> >Request to the Devuan community . . .
> >
> >As we get closer to the Chimaera release, we'd appreciate some 
> >feedback on whether the existing documentation listed below, which is 
> >applicable to all releases, is still useful/accurate and should be 
> >carried forward for use in Chimaera.
> >
> >These documents were written by dev1fanboy aka chillfan who provided 
> >updates/corrections from Jessie through Beowulf. Sadly, he has not 
> >been seen for a very long time or responded to email queries.
> >
> >You can find the docs that need reviewing here:
> >https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/
> >
> >All releases
> >
> >General information
> >Installing Devuan
> >Full disk encryption
> >Network configuration
> >Devuan without D-Bus
> >D-Bus free software
> >Minimal xorg install
> >Minimal XFCE install
> >
> >Your comments and/or corrections especially on technical issues would 
> >be most appreciated.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >The WWW Team
> 



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Re: [DNG] KUserFeedback

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng]

Hi!

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 5 Sep 09:52:11 +0200
 tito via Dng scripsit:
> Hi,
> while reading the latest edition of the PCLinuxOS Magazine,
> I've found this interesting article about KUserFeedback
> at https://pclosmag.com/html/Issues/202109/page09.html
> which relevant parts I copy here for ease of discussion:
> 
> " Recently, there was a debate on the PCLinuxOS forum about KDE Plasma's 
> implementation
>  of telemetry through KUserFeedback. While in PCLinuxOS, we can remove it 
> without any
>  collateral effects to the system, while other users reported that doing the 
> same in other
>  distros (like Debian 11) results in the complete removal of KDE Plasma! Why 
> force such
>  an implementation, if, as KDE's developers say, it is just an innocuous, 
> privacy-respecting
>  measure?
> 
> Coincidence or not, in the past years many popular Linux distributions 
> started rolling out
> optional telemetry. Then it was the time of computer programs: news broke out 
> in May
> regarding Audacity, a popular audio editing app, which announced it was 
> starting the
> use of telemetry. The move was finally pushed back after users revolted 
> against it.
> 
> But in Plasma's case, it is not just an app or a single distro, but an entire 
> desktop
> environment, employed in several Linux distributions, that is being shipped 
> with
> telemetry. While many point out that the data collection is by opt-in and 
> entirely
> anonymous, others have found that, even if you don't activate telemetry, data 
> is
> still collected, using computer resources, registering "apps and boot, number 
> of
> times used and duration in /home/user/telemetry folder." As such, they argue 
> that,
> because of the way Linux permissions work, other programs could have access
> to these log files. KUserFeedback's FAQs page confirms this:
> 
> 'KUserFeedback is designed to be compliant with KDE Telemetry Policy, which 
> forbids
> the usage of unique identification. If you are using KUserFeedback outside of 
> the
> scope of that policy, it's of course possible to add a custom data source 
> generating
> and transmitting a unique id.'
> 
> Not being an expert on such matters, it is anyway a little strange the step 
> taken by
> KDE and the way it is being implemented by most mainstream distros, as if 
> there
> was a certain consternation about it. To better understand the picture, let 
> us give
> a look at the organization that maintains the Plasma desktop."
> 
> What possible solutions are there to avoid this user data hoarding and their 
> abuse?
> 
> Simple workarounds that I can think off:
> 
> 1) allow removal of  KUserFeedback by modifying deb deps (rather ineffective
>  as most user will not care to do so)
> 
> 1a) allow removal of  KUserFeedback by modifying deb deps and don't install
>   by default unless the way data is collected is changed so that data
> are collected only if opted in
> 
> 2) if the user opted out make /home/user/telemetry a tmpfs so that data stored
>  are forgotten at reboot (easy but not very effective as data could still 
> be
>abused in the meanwhile)
> 
> 3) if the user opted out create some kind of /dev/null folder (I suspect that 
> such
> thing doesn't exist yet) to delete the data in realtime
> 
> 4) if the user opted out run cron jobs or other autostart scripts to 
> periodically
> (boot, login, logout, hourly etc) delete this data
> 
> Comments and better ideas are welcome.

Don't think a lot of people here use KDE4 :)

Anyway, e.g. "audacity" has added "telemetry" and "lawful inspection" a while 
ago and was promptly forked 
https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/06/audacity_fork/ . Unpleasently there is 
still audacity in the devuan/debian repository, so keep an eye open on the new 
spyware.

nik

> 
> Ciao,
> Tito
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 31 Aug 10:21:31 -0500
 hal scripsit:
> On 8/28/21 13:24, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> > Install 'apulse' which are a sort of pulseaudio compatability libraries.
> 
> apulse hasn't been working for me with Firefox for at least a year now. I 
> don't know if I messed it up or if it was some software change, but it just 
> stopped working once. Firefox doesn't seem to have FOSS in the focus so much 
> anymore so always thought maybe they did something (again).
> 
> I just tried ff now running as my LXDE logged in user[1] and using sudo[2]. 
> Both generated some apulse complaints I have to look into. my "default" dev 
> is the onboard sound chip which might be in use with another application I 
> have open.
> 
> Maybe I need to make "default" one of my dmix devices and not the "raw 
> device", or I need to specify a playback rate in /etc/asound.conf like I've 
> seen in some ALSA examples? hmm..
> 
> ::: apulse errors :::
> [apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: can't get initial hw parameters for playback 
> device "default". Error code 1 (Operation not permitted)
> 
> [apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: failed to open ALSA device. Apulse does no 
> resampling or format conversion, leaving that task to ALSA plugins. Ensure 
> that selected device is capable of playing a particular sample format at a 
> particular rate. They have to be supported by either hardware directly, or by 
> "plug" and "dmix" ALSA plugins which will perform required conversions on CPU.
> 
> 
> ::: cards/devices :::
> $ cat /proc/asound/cards
>   0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
>HDA Intel PCH at 0xfbff8000 irq 37
> 
> 
> ::: snipped /etc/asound.conf :::
> $ cat /etc/asound.conf
> ...
> pcm.!default {
>  type plug
>  slave.pcm "duplex"
> }
> ctl.!default {
>  type hw
>  card 0
> }

apulse works here like a charm. But my /etc/asound.conf is different (I use 
soundcard 2 aka index 1 as default):

defaults.pcm.card  1
defaults.ctl.card  1
defaults.timer.card  1


Nik



> 
> 
> 
> > This may (and I do mean 'may') be your Desktop not releasing the audio 
> > devices, google that for your specific desktop to find out how to make it 
> > release them when you launch steam.
> > 
> 
> 
> [1] $ /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager
> [2] $ sudo -u webuser /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox 
> -ProfileManager
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Re: [DNG] ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware.

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 23 Aug 10:39:28 -0400
 Hendrik Boom scripsit:
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 08:33:18AM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Mon, 23 Aug 02:33:36 +0200
> >  Arnt Karlsen scripsit:
> > > [...]
> > > ..thanks to Tim for pushing me to investigate that story, Jim did
> > > indeed say that, initially.  And wise people update as they learn
> > > more...
> > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/?comments=1
> > > 
> > > ..and there's even more:
> > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/audacitys-new-owner-is-in-another-fight-with-the-open-source-community/?comments=1
> > > 
> > > ..it's like Github's next owner making you pay to see source code.
> > > Sheet music is effectively the source code of music, and that 
> > > analogy has been used to explain source code as a concept to the
> > > general public, to legislators and to jurors and judges in courts.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > It's most concerning. Just these lines:
> > 
> > Personal data collected:Data necessary for law enforcement, litigation 
> > and authorities' requests (if any)
> > Why collect it: For legal enforcement
> > Legal grounds for processing:   Legitimate interest of WSM Group to 
> > defend its legal rights and interests
> > 
> > This is a strict no-go. Any software even with the "option" to get you 
> > prosecuted by any countries laws will get you in trouble. Any sane person 
> > should stay away from that crap as far as possible.
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> Audacity does not collect data unless you opt in to data collection.
> 
> You do not need to do this.
> If the data are necessary for law enforcement, Audacity will hand it 
> over.  This is presumably required by law, whether is is mentioned in the 
> privacy agreement or not.

When you think about this, it's most alarming. There is no need for this 
functunality in the first place. "Sombody" has to work hard (infrastructure, 
time, resources) to implement this surveillance functionality. If it costs, 
"somebody" will want to ge a revenue. There is no such thing as a law to force 
the user to give data out of his/her hands unwillingly. 

This is a road everybody should pay close attention and if a project takes that 
turn - drop it.

> There's no indication they will change the data they collect because law 
> enforcement requests it.

This is not reassuring, on the contrary.

> If law enforcement needs additional user data beyond what audacity has, 
> they presumably have to collect it from the user.

So why sould the user accept audacity to to the police job?

> As for the use of the software by children, audacity should simply refuse 
> to collect any data from children, and
>* ask the user if they are children
>* and if so, simply not colect those data, whether telemetry is turned 
> on or off.

In my country this kind of "data gathering" is not allowed aka illegal, not 
only for children. Audacity will have a bad press when this goes public - and 
every distribution with this kind of spyware will get it's dose of "told you 
it's not better than Windows".

Nik

> 
> -- hendrik
> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing 
> > with the NSA, CIA ...
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Re: [DNG] ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware.

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 23 Aug 02:33:36 +0200
 Arnt Karlsen scripsit:
> [...]
> ..thanks to Tim for pushing me to investigate that story, Jim did
> indeed say that, initially.  And wise people update as they learn
> more...
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/?comments=1
> 
> ..and there's even more:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/audacitys-new-owner-is-in-another-fight-with-the-open-source-community/?comments=1
> 
> ..it's like Github's next owner making you pay to see source code.
> Sheet music is effectively the source code of music, and that 
> analogy has been used to explain source code as a concept to the
> general public, to legislators and to jurors and judges in courts.
> 
> 

It's most concerning. Just these lines:

Personal data collected:Data necessary for law enforcement, litigation and 
authorities' requests (if any)
Why collect it: For legal enforcement
Legal grounds for processing:   Legitimate interest of WSM Group to defend its 
legal rights and interests

This is a strict no-go. Any software even with the "option" to get you 
prosecuted by any countries laws will get you in trouble. Any sane person 
should stay away from that crap as far as possible.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Cannot install on W10 laptop (was: Re: Reinstalling unbootable laptop...)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 22 Aug 09:21:33 +0200
 al3xu5 scripsit:
> Sun, 15 Aug 2021 12:05:19 +0200 - al3xu5 :
> 
> > About one or two years ago I had installed Devuan on my brother's laptop.
> > 
> > It is a Lenovo B50-10 (model 80QR), with a 64bit Intel N3540 CPU, 4GB
> > DDR1600 RAM and a mechanical 500GB HDD (see:
> > https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/cr/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/lenovo-b-series-laptops/b50-10/80qr/documentation/doc_userguide)
> > 
> > Two weeks ago I tryed some BIOS changes and did an apt-get
> > update/upgrade. Do not remember neither which BIOS changes I tried, nor
> > the order I did changeas and apt-get...
> > 
> > This resulted in a unbootable system (a loop, booting and rebootin,
> > without starting the system).
> > 
> > [...]
> 
> 
> After a long battle, the notebook now starts correctly ... but to
> fix the boot issue I had to install W10 (UEFI).
> 
> So now I'm trying to reinstall it with Devuan, but I can't.
> 
> Using beowulf netinstaller (3.1.1), it starts with a blocking error:
> 
> ~~~
>   Loading Devuan beowulf installer in standard mode...
> 
>   error: invalid sector size 0
>   error: you need to load the kernel first.
> ~~~
> 
> Please help!

Just a guess: is secureboot enabled?

Anyway, you might have more lick using the chimaera iso - Id suggest the 
netistaller:

https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/

Nik


> 
> Regards
> al3xu5
> 



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Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 19 Aug 13:18:16 +0200
 Antony Stone scripsit:
> Hi.
> 
> This may seem like a strange question, but has anyone tried "migrating" a 
> machine from Devuan to Debian (ie: not the normal way round we discuss it 
> here)?
> 
> I have a need to play with FreeSwitch, and the package installer tells me:
> 
> freeswitch-systemd : Depends: systemd which is a virtual package and is not 
> provided by any available package

Install "equivs" and build a dummy package.

Nik

> 
> I have a *very* fast and convenient method of creating Devuan VMs to play 
> with, whereas creating a Debian VM would involve going through the entire 
> standard Debian installer process (time difference: ~1 minute vs. ~1 hour).
> 
> So, is it worth my while trying:
> 
>  - create a Beowulf VM
>  - add either Buster or (since it became officially stable last weekend) 
> Bullseye to sources.list
>  - doing an upgrade and/or a dist-upgrade
> 
> Anyone tried it?  Success?  Failure?  You must be mad?
> 
> My intention is simply to get FreeSwitch installed, find out how much it 
> really 
> *does* depend on systemd, and see how feasible it is to take those bits out 
> or 
> replace the init scripts etc, and then run it on Devuan.
> 
> Opinions and experiences most welcome :)
> 
> 
> Antony.
> 



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Re: [DNG] a how to question (project(s) related)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 17 Aug 03:21:37 -0400
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> o1bigtenor via Dng said on Mon, 16 Aug 2021 15:54:48 -0500
> 
> 
> >As I manage to collect some 25 to 40 GB of pdfs and notes in an
> >'normal' year paper lost its appeal some 30 years ago.
> >I would likely need to hire a couple people just to store maintain and
> >index the information - - - if you're paying I'll start tomorrow.
> 
> Very true, but the other side of the story is that I have my 1955
> Kindergarten booklet on "Our Trip to the Zoo" in my memory box. I
> have my 1966 Junior Year Thesis on making boxing safer in that memory
> box, along with the selfie I took in 1965 with my Brownie Hawkeye
> camera. I have the entire set of WLS Silver Dollar Surveys, on paper,
> from 1963, including the one that came out the day Kennedy was killed.
> 
> On the other hand, I've lost some of my digital writings due to
> obsolescence of hardware and software. I think the earliest backups I
> can still read are 1999. If I want one of my writings to be read fifty
> years after my death, I'll print it, because heaven knows who will be
> able to read HTML, SVG, PDF and ePub 50 years from now, let alone read
> files off that ancient "Linux" OS.
> 
> I'm obviously not saying I should print everything. The docs in my
> computer would fill my house and three more like it if I printed them
> all, and the toner cartridges and paper would cost me six or seven
> figures. I'm just saying there's a place for paper.

My lawyer prints every email on paper and stores it in a physical folder. And 
no, he's not 99 :)

I've lost all my earier works on amiga and plus4 due to bitrotting - I sold the 
hardware when I realised everyting on floppy dodn't even last some years.

Nik

> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Are .udeb files also to be installed after a source build?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 08 Aug 17:42:16 +0930
 dva...@internode.on.net scripsit:
> udeb

https://wiki.debian.org/udeb

"The 'u' stands for micro. An udeb is a stripped down deb file for use by the 
DebianInstaller . It removes the naughty bits (the documentation, as well as 
some checksums, etc.) to save space. "

That was quite common on Sharp Zaurus :)

Nik

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Re: [DNG] [OT] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sat, 31 Jul 11:23:54 -0400
 Hendrik Boom scripsit:
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 04:53:01PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Sat, 31 Jul 12:05:28 +0200
> >  Antony Stone scripsit:
> > > On Saturday 31 July 2021 at 12:02:47, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I like to use the safest programming language that is compatible with
> > > > the functions the program is to perform.
> > > 
> > > Do you have a list of languages ranked by safety :) ?
> > 
> > It's sufficient to talk fluently scheme/lisp.
> 
> A statically typed version of scheme would be good.

Racked offers ist - if you really want it (I don't):
https://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-guide/

Nik

> 
> -- hendrik
> 
> > 
> > Nik
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Antony.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing 
> > with the NSA, CIA ...
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sat, 31 Jul 12:05:28 +0200
 Antony Stone scripsit:
> On Saturday 31 July 2021 at 12:02:47, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> 
> > I like to use the safest programming language that is compatible with
> > the functions the program is to perform.
> 
> Do you have a list of languages ranked by safety :) ?

It's sufficient to talk fluently scheme/lisp.

Nik

> 
> 
> Antony.
> 



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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 29 Jul 10:57:50 -0700
 spiralofh...@spiralofhope.com scripsit:
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:33:10 +0200
> al3xu5  wrote:
> 
> > 11) Document and document and document all the code (vars, functions,
> > errors etc. ... all)
> 
> It was mentioned earlier; variables and functions wouldn't need much
> (if any) documentation if they were long and descriptive.

Oh my, the infamouse agile tantra. Real world examples: 
"this_is_the_variable_I_use_to_count_from_0_to_100" or 
"get_milliseconds_from_timestamp()".
 
> I like using short phrases, and sometimes I use poor grammar because it
> supports consistency between similar items.

Lucky you, poor grammar is at least the same language. Most programmers in this 
part of the world use their mother tonge ("german" ... kind of), english and 
sometimes russian/tschech/... I like to add comments in latin when I find more 
than 2 languages in on sourcefile :)

Nik

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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 28 Jul 07:04:10 -0400
 Hendrik Boom scripsit:
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 12:06:46PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote in the signature:
> > -- 
> > A few words to be cautious of between American and English:
> >  - momentarily
> >  - suspenders
> >  - chips
> >  - pants
> >  - jelly
> >  - pavement
> >  - vest
> >  - pint (and gallon)
> >  - pissed

- ass :)

> 
> I was aware of chips, pavement, and pissed.
> The confusion about pint and gallon is why I prefer litres.
> 
> But I do not know how the others differ.
> 
> -- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 26 Jul 16:33:45 +
 g4sra via Dng scripsit:
> [...]
> > It takes some effort to learn, but I doubt it's rocket science
> Which is why they call it Computer Science, it's harder.
> Rocket Science has a formula for everything, even the top AI experts cannot 
> formulate the intricacies of a Neural Net program.

Why not? It's just a set of equations. Calling it "AI" might sell it to 
marketing guys and polititians that definitly lack "NI", but that's about it.

Nik

> > and one certainly doesn't need to come from a family who can fund
> > college plus living expenses for 4 years, or 7, or whatever.
> Agreed, we must have all at least heard of Kevin Mitnick, who as a teenager 
> learnt from his dad, a security expert.
> How executing software processes what you enter into it is as much a security 
> concern as the source code.
> > 
> 
> > SteveT
> 
> 
> 



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[DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Just in case sombody missed it:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/nasty-linux-systemd-security-bug-revealed/


"Systemd, the Linux system and service manager that has largely replaced init 
as the master Linux startup and control program, has always had its critics. 
Now, with Qualys's discovery of a new systemd security bug, systemd will have 
fewer friends. Successful exploitation of this newest vulnerability enables any 
unprivileged user to cause a denial of service via a kernel panic. 

In a phrase, "that's bad, that's really bad." 
[...]
"

Nik

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Re: [DNG] USB mount problem

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 23 Jun 13:34:39 +0200
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 23/06/2021 à 12:49, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 23 Jun 12:16:50 +0200
> >  Didier Kryn scripsit:
> >> [...]
> >>     There is no other way to know which partitions are mounted or not
> >> than read /proc/self/mounts. inotify does not work on pseudo-filesystems
> >> like /sys or /proc. Therefore, either this is done by the front-end or
> >> by the back-end.
> > Oh, inotifywatch perfectly works on /sys and /dev when you are root, in 
> > fact that's what I use as part of my automounter when I run fvwm:
> 
>     Of course it works on /dev; tmpfs and devtmpfs behave like real
> filesystems. This is what Hopman is based on (~:
> 
>     Hopman isn't root, doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be. And inotify
> doesn't work on /proc (at least for non-root).

Well, inotifywait does work  on /dev /sys and /proc for non-root, too. At least 
it does here on chimaera. Just try these:

$ inotifywait -rm /proc/
$ inotifywait -rm /sys/devices/pci*

What does not work is /sys/block, but that's a cosmetic problem, as you alway 
can watch for /sys and fiilter the output.

How does hopman differ from e.g. "inotifywait -rm /dev/disk" or "inotifywait 
-rm /dev/block" + some lines of shell magic to get a nice output? If polling 
/proc/self/mounts is required, where is the point in not polling 
/sys/block/sd*/removable, too?


Nik



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Re: [DNG] USB mount problem

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 23 Jun 12:16:50 +0200
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> [...]
>     There is no other way to know which partitions are mounted or not
> than read /proc/self/mounts. inotify does not work on pseudo-filesystems
> like /sys or /proc. Therefore, either this is done by the front-end or
> by the back-end.

Oh, inotifywatch perfectly works on /sys and /dev when you are root, in fact 
that's what I use as part of my automounter when I run fvwm:

# # inotifywait -rm /sys/
Setting up watches.  Beware: since -r was given, this may take a while!
Watches established.
/sys/class/ OPEN,ISDIR power_supply
/sys/class/power_supply/ OPEN,ISDIR 
/sys/class/ ACCESS,ISDIR power_supply
/sys/class/power_supply/ ACCESS,ISDIR 
/sys/class/ ACCESS,ISDIR power_supply
/sys/class/power_supply/ ACCESS,ISDIR 
/sys/class/ CLOSE_NOWRITE,CLOSE,ISDIR power_supply
/sys/class/power_supply/ CLOSE_NOWRITE,CLOSE,ISDIR 
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/ OPEN scaling_cur_freq
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/ ACCESS scaling_cur_freq
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/ CLOSE_NOWRITE,CLOSE scaling_cur_freq
/sys/class/ OPEN,ISDIR power_supply
/sys/class/power_supply/ OPEN,ISDIR 
...

# inotifywait -rm /dev/char/
Setting up watches.  Beware: since -r was given, this may take a while!
Watches established.
/dev/char/ CREATE 189:135
/dev/char/ CREATE 188:0
/dev/char/ ATTRIB 189:135
...

# inotifywait -rm /dev/block
Setting up watches.  Beware: since -r was given, this may take a while!
Watches established.
/dev/block/ CREATE 8:16
/dev/block/ CREATE 8:18
/dev/block/ CREATE 8:17
/dev/block/ ATTRIB 8:17
...

Nik



> 
> 
> >
> >>     Both Hopman-cli and the GUI must read hopmanrc at startup (it seems
> >> simpler to have a single file to configure both). Possibly the name of
> >> the GUI application might be specified in hopmanrc and Hopman-cli would
> >> launch it.
> > What's configurable in hopmanrc? Shouldn't it "just work" for all 
> > partitions/devices? The GUI part most likely will need some config, e.g 
> > automounting certain devices/partitions etc.
> 
>     hopmanrc provides a lot of possiblities to parameterise the
> application, such as window appearance, behaviour and position, location
> of pid-file and helper applications to mount/umount/open/eject
> partitions/devices.
> 
> --     Didier
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] USB mount problem

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 23 Jun 00:00:11 +0200
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 22/06/2021 à 19:10, Steve Litt a écrit :
> [...]
>     Hopman-cli would write to the pipe 3 sorts of messages, with all the
> necessary details:
> 
> - a device special file associated to a removable partition has been
> detected in /dev
> - a symlink has been detected in /dev/disk/by-label, pointing to a
> removable partition
> - a device special file associated to a removable partition has been
> removed

IMO this sounds good. I would just make it react on all partitions, not only 
the removable: there are broken devices out in the wild that lie about their 
removability. And there are devices that have wrong entries in the hw database 
(e.g. old Casio cameras).

Oh, hopman would only send data, not receive from the client side, would it?

> [...]
>     Then it's up to the GUI application to
> 
> - parse these messages, maintain and display a list of removable
> partitions and their labels,
> - on click, spawn helpers to mount/umount/open partitions and
> potentially eject disks, check completion and report errors,
> - periodically read /proc/self/mounts and report mountpoints of
> removable partitions on the display.

Why parse /proc/self/mounts? IMO it would make more sense if hopman-cli sends 
" mounted on yyy" or "xxx unlounted" over the pipe, as it is already 
monitoring stuff.

>     Both Hopman-cli and the GUI must read hopmanrc at startup (it seems
> simpler to have a single file to configure both). Possibly the name of
> the GUI application might be specified in hopmanrc and Hopman-cli would
> launch it.

What's configurable in hopmanrc? Shouldn't it "just work" for all 
partitions/devices? The GUI part most likely will need some config, e.g 
automounting certain devices/partitions etc.

Oh, udisksctl as mount-helper will make the job easy :)

Nik

> [...]



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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 11:57:59 +0200
 Arnt Karlsen scripsit:
> On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message 
> <202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200
> >  tito via Dng scripsit:
> > > Hi to all,
> > > today while reading online my selection of international newspapers
> > > on the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which
> > > made my antennas vibrate, link is:
> > > 
> > > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html
> > >   
> > 
> > Thats just bullshit bingo.
> 
> ..so was The Donald and der Adolf.  The good news here is, today's
> Germans have the experience and therefore much more wisdom to deal 
> with such bullshit bingo to keep it from repeating itself, and to 
> aim it somewhere useful and to fire up the French etc on it.  
> Keep your eyes open.

Sorry, the whole EU is going the totalitarian road nowadays - just to name 
Kurz, Orban, Zensursula, CDU/CSD etc., all elected in a vote and misuse their 
power to create totalitarian systems. That quoting from FAZ is targeting $$$ 
companies, not FOSS. And that's the reason, why this is just "hot air" - the 
said politian is from CDU which freely translates to "not interested in 
citicens".

Nik



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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200
 tito via Dng scripsit:
> Hi to all,
> today while reading online my selection of international newspapers on
> the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which made my
> antennas vibrate, link is:
> 
> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html

Thats just bullshit bingo.

Nik


> 
> text in german is:
> 
> Kunden sollen nach dem Willen der Verbraucherschutzministerkonferenz
> (VSMK) künftig besser vor Schäden durch Softwarefehler geschützt
> werden. Der Bund solle entsprechende Maßnahmen prüfen, sagte
> Schleswig-Holsteins Verbraucherschutzminister Claus Christian Claussen
> (CDU) nach dem Ende der Konferenz am Freitag. Zudem solle das
> Produkthaftungsrecht künftig auch digitale Schäden umfassen, darunter
> auch Datenverluste.
> 
> Das Produkthaftungsgesetz basiere auf einer EU-Richtlinie von 1985 und
> sei angesichts des technischen Fortschritts nicht mehr zeitgemäß, so
> Claussen weiter - besonders mit Blick auf die wachsende Bedeutung von
> Software im Vergleich zu Hardware. Clausen sagte: „Wir wollen, dass ein
> verbraucherfreundliches, digitales Produkthaftungsrecht eingeführt
> wird.“ Das müsse vom Bund auf den Weg gebracht werden. Er sei
> zuversichtlich, dass die Verbraucherschutzminister-Konferenz den Bund
> bittet, entsprechende Vorschläge zu machen.
> 
> Auch die Überwachung des Lebensmittelhandels muss nach Claussens
> Überzeugung an die aktuellen Entwicklungen angepasst werden.
> Lebensmittel würden zunehmen über das Internet bestellt und nach Hause
> geliefert. „Die klassischen Überwachungsmethoden greifen da natürlich
> nicht durch.“ Auch hier solle die Bundesregierung tätig werden und
> Rechtsgrundlagen schaffen.
> 
> Rudimental google translation is:
> 
> According to the wishes of the Conference of Consumer Protection
> Ministers (VSMK), customers should be better protected from damage
> caused by software errors in the future. The federal government should
> examine appropriate measures, said Schleswig-Holstein's consumer
> protection minister Claus Christian Claussen (CDU) after the end of the
> conference on Friday. In addition, product liability law should also
> include digital damage in the future, including data loss.
> 
> According to Claussen, the product liability law is based on an EU
> directive from 1985 and is no longer up-to-date in view of technical
> progress - especially with a view to the growing importance of software
> compared to hardware. Clausen said: "We want consumer-friendly, digital
> product liability law to be introduced." That must be initiated by the
> federal government. He is confident that the consumer protection
> ministers' conference will ask the federal government to make
> appropriate proposals.
> 
> According to Claussens, the monitoring of the food trade must also be
> adapted to current developments. Groceries are increasingly being
> ordered online and delivered to your home. “Of course, the classic
> monitoring methods do not work.” Here, too, the federal government
> should act and create a legal basis.
> 
> So the first question that arises is:
> how could open source and free software projects ensure
> protection from damage up to data loss if actually even proprietary
> software comes with no warranty at all?
> 
> For example Microsoft:
> 
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/windows-server/system-insights-eula
> 
> DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. THE SOFTWARE IS LICENSED “AS IS.” YOU BEAR THE
> RISK OF USING IT. MICROSOFT GIVES NO EXPRESS WARRANTIES, GUARANTEES, OR
> CONDITIONS. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS, MICROSOFT
> EXCLUDES ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS
> FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.
> 
> Ciao,
> Tito
>   
> 
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Re: [DNG] ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking our kernels from Debian?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 5 May 11:42:09 +0300
 Dimitris via Dng scripsit:

> only thing i can think of, is by installing  unverified firmware files 
> from a removable drive during installation, mainly because i'm not sure 
> how verifiable firmware blobs are...
> every other package (including a DE) is always installed from 
> authenticated sources/mirrors (and mostly reproducible these days), so 
> it should be assumed malware-free.
> 
> 2c.
> d.
> 
> 

And there's alway the possibillity of 3rd party software, e.g. Teams, 
Appimages, ...

Nik


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Re: [DNG] Screen flickering

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 8 Apr 16:59:40 +0200
 Bernard Rosset via Dng scripsit:
> > When connected to an external monitor, does that monitor show the 
> > flickering, too?
> 
> That is my case already: I am using the internal display + an extra one.
> No sign of trouble on the external one.

Most likely a dying backlight or a broken cable.

Nik

> 
> Bernard (Beer) Rosset
> https://rosset.net/
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Re: [DNG] Screen flickering

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 8 Apr 16:40:06 +0200
 Bernard Rosset via Dng scripsit:
> Something I guess is important that I forgot to add:
> 
> The flicker started happening after the screen went black during a 
> session lock phase (screensaver was running on the other screen).
> I had to reboot to make the laptop's screen come back, only to have it 
> flicker.
> 
> Bernard (Beer) Rosset
> https://rosset.net/
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When connected to an external monitor, does that monitor show the flickering, 
too?

Nik

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Re: [DNG] FSF and human rights

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 26 Mar 18:49:23 +0100
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
>     We are supposedly all here in favour of software freedom and freedom
> in general, which includes freedom of opinions.
> 
>     It seems  we have entered a new era of inquisition, with the great
> inquisitor being the social networks. Are we still free to express
> personal opinion without the risk of being banned ?
> 
>     Next step is trying to ban opponents to systemd ?

You can bet on that. But social networks are just the beginning. Wait for the 
uploadfilters in EU. It's already begun.

Nik


> 
> --     Didier
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] No future?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 19 Mar 13:18:04 +0100
 Florian Zieboll via Dng scripsit:
> On March 19, 2021 12:18:17 PM GMT+01:00, Florian Zieboll via Dng 
>  wrote:
> 
> > a sphere
> 
> Or, lol, should I say: a curved plane? 
> 
> With best regards from Flatland,

And I thought Germany is "Neuland" :)

Nik


> Florian
> 
> 



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Re: [DNG] OT"? Wanted a simple 2d plan drafting/sketching/plotting program

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!

Anno domini 2021 Fri, 12 Mar 16:45:07 +1100
 terryc scripsit:
> Suggestions wanted.
> 
> I need to sketch a plan of a land plot for an erection by a
> contractor. the 'erection' can be described as three to five rectangles
> with ramps between them. Ancillary data to be plotted/drawn is building
> sides, pathway and drive way. placement of shrubbery is optional. I'm
> really after a vector based program.
> 
> Rant/Long story: Similar simple tasks I need to do irregularly.
> Sadly, "linux" has never had a program that provides that functionality
> and I've always had to fulfill the need from the MS world.
> 
> I come from the world of drafting where first you define your scale,
> then draw up your plan to scale. the problem there is I've spent the
> last three days intermittently looking at eight CAD/sketching programs.
> 
> Bummer, as nothing 'sets a scale' any more. Apparently the 'modern'
> approach is to describe it in 'elements' of real world dimensions and
> then scale the result. Reasonable, good idea, BUT, nothing has a simple
> 'element' creation module.
> 
> I believe it isn't my webfu that is failing, but any of my searches for
> 'element creation in XYZ' at the best turned up a response to a
> similar question that was ignored.
> 
> Hence I'm looking for suggestions.of a program that might work in a
> timely manner.
> 
> In a practical sense, I could pick up my A4 drafting board, draw
> it, scan the result and send it. Changes are expected and hence a
> digital version would be better.

Depending on what you realy need you can use e.g.:

FreeCAD
LibreCAD
Inkscape
OpenSCAD
dia
libredraw
Povray
Gimp


Or you might not find anythig useful, 'cause it's not working the way you 
expect it to work.

Nik




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Re: [DNG] What does this remind you of?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 7 Mar 19:18:42 +0100
 tito via Dng scripsit:
> On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 19:11:18 +0100
> "d...@d404.nl"  wrote:
> 
> > On 07-03-2021 18:20, tito via Dng wrote:
> > > On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 18:03:30 +0100
> > > Antony Stone  wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Sunday 07 March 2021 at 17:59:22, Steve Litt wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> See this web page:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pattern
> > >>>
> > >>> I'd say at least half of the listed anti-patterns are used by
> > >>> systemd.
> > >> Very nice.
> > >>
> > >> Antony.
> > >>
> > > Hi,
> > > this makes me think of the times when you could startx
> > > with IceWM on a 1.44 floppy disk. That was simplicity
> > > and to a certain extent poetry. I personally would scrap:
> > > dbus
> > > consolekit
> > > packagekit
> > > policykit
> > > systemd
> > > apparmor
> > > selinux
> > > I am sure I've forgot some other garbage.
> > >
> > > P.S.: I'm open to new technologies..
> > > when they follow a simple rule: less code is better
> > > as I can understand only as much code as fits
> > > onto my screen.
> > >
> > > Ciao,
> > > Tito
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Mostly agree with you and in its current state apparmor belongs to
> > this list. In the same time I like the idea of apparmor in limiting
> > apps behavior. It could be most useful if implemented correctly.
> > 
> > Grtz.
> > 
> > Nick
> > 
> >
> 
> Hi,
> I doubt this could be ever implemented correctly as you have to check
> every code path of every app you will armorize or as soon as your usage
> diverges from what the distro gurus have envisioned your program
> will stop working without even a warning.
> Next then we will need a uber-apparmor that checks apparmor safety
> and anyway more code more bugs less security. Why not fix the existing
> programs instead?

The point is to delegate access control to a higher instance e.g. kernel. The 
problem is, that apparmor looks at a program from the the outside and tries to 
do the right thing with that black box - or what the profiles provider thought 
was the right thing.

OpenBSD has quite an interesting aproach with unveil ( 
https://man.openbsd.org/unveil.2 ) and pledge ( https://man.openbsd.org/pledge 
). The programmer itself takes care what the program will use and tells the 
system that what e.g. access privileges it does not want to use from now on. 
That's the look at the world from the inside, no black box involved. If you 
droped things, you can never get them back, so evil hackers code is confined 
inside the same cage.


Nik

> 
> Ciao,
> Tito
> 
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Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Thanks for the alternative git repositories. I was already wondering yesterday 
what happend - well, "Die Gier is a Hund" or in almost english "Greed is a dog" 
:/

Nik


Anno domini 2020 Mon, 26 Oct 11:47:25 -0700
 spiralofhope scripsit:
> TL;DR:  YouTube-dl DMCA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The RIAA successfully applied a DMCA takedown to GitHub (Microsoft) for
> an archivism program which downloads YouTube video/audio (although it
> does target other services).
> 
> https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/
> https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md
> 
> I expect that YouTube will obfuscate the way it delivers content so
> as to make the existing youtube-dl release (and other similar software)
> nonfunctional (perhaps only for a time).
> 
> Curiously there was recently a bit of drama and then a fork (also
> DMCA'd) over the problem of urgent youtube-dl pull requests being left
> unreviewed.  I have no proof for this instance, but I've always
> maintained that controlled forks, or for a few thousand dollars the
> right developers, could be made to drag their feet and damage FOSS
> alternatives / etc; it might be cheaper than lawyers, FUD, lobbyists
> etc.
> 
> The developer(s) are alive and its website still has a download, but
> they're a hair away from being targeted more directly.
> 
> https://youtube-dl.org/
> 
> Sure there have been "protest forks" already, but that alone doesn't
> mean anything unless efforts centre around one in particular.
> 
> Where other people will be focused on the code, I'm concerned about the
> documentation.  All of the wikis, pull requests, inline code-comments,
> issues and their conversation have been purged.
> 
> (Not many people even think to clone a project's separate GitHub wiki
> repository.)
> 
> But back to YouTube itself.  The inability to download videos will
> have an impact in that "inconvenient" videos can't so easily be kept,
> fair-use commentated-upon, and (re-)uploaded.  Everyday people wouldn't
> be able to signal boost or contribute to a Streisand effect, making
> videos (and people) easier to memoryhole.
> 
> 
> GitHub is obviously untrustworthy for mirrors/forks.  These are likely
> to stay up longer:
> 
> https://source.netsyms.com/Mirrors/l1ving_youtube-dl
> https://git.datahoarder.dev/whalehub/l1ving_youtube-dl
> https://gitea.datahoarding.agency/ZenulAbidin/youtube-dl
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Re: [DNG] Failed run live usb iso

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 26 Sep 14:09:00 +0700
 Budi via Dng scripsit:
> Did download this:
> [b]devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso[/b]
> (1.2GB)
> 
> and did:
> [code]sudo dd if=devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso
> of=/dev/sdc bs=4096[/code]

did you do a "sync" afterwards and waited till it returned? If not, then the 
image was not written completely. You can monitor the writing process with 
"watch iostat" (if you have sysstat installed)

nik

> 
> did reboot it, but got sort of this output:
> 
> Error : cannot run Apparmor   ... failed
> ...
> ...
> (Other errors)
> 
> how to solve ? Thanks before.
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Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 16 Sep 22:15:42 +
 aitor scripsit:
> Hi,
> 
> On 16/9/20 20:30, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:53:14 +0200
> > "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:
> >
> >> Anno domini 2020 Wed, 16 Sep 02:11:57 -0400
> >>   Steve Litt scripsit:
> >>> In addition, I don't see why Unix design isn't a good fit for modern
> >>> demands. Edward and Aitor have already made
> >>> do-one-thing-and-do-it-well graphical automounters that, as far as
> >>> I know, depend on neither systemd nor dbus. I once posted, on this
> >>> list, a thumb drive plugin detector/mounter, and somebody else on
> >>> the list improved on it.
> >> Sorry, I must have missed that. Do you have a link to the software?
> >>
> >> nik
> >   
> > No, sorry. Best way to find it is to search posts from Steve Litt
> > body-containing the string "inotify". Once you've found the right one,
> > look at that tree to find the improvement by the other DNG inhabitant,
> > whose name I've forgotten.
> >
> > Please do me a favor if you find it, and repost it here. I apparently
> > have lost the software (probably a small shellscript).
> >
> > SteveT
> 
> Amounter, maybe?
> 
> https://github.com/stevelitt/amounter
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 
> 

Steves hint to "inotify" made it. To sum it up, it's just "inotifywait 
--monitor /dev| ..." - didn't search the archives, it's so simple :)


Nik

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Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 16 Sep 02:11:57 -0400
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:41:19 +
> A Nilsson  wrote:
> 
> > > From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Bruce
> > > Perens via Dng Sent: den 14 september 2020 06:23  
> > 
> > > Systemd and so on are symptoms of the Unix design not really being
> > > a good fit for modern demands.  
> > 
> > It is important to specify whose demands we are talking about.
> > 
> > The underlying interests of end users and of system administrators
> > are remarkably different from those of commercial  actors. The latter
> > ones are highly motivated, by their nature, to monopolize the control
> > over the technical platform. Unix indeed was not designed with this
> > purpose in mind.
> 
> I couldn't have said it better.

Don't forget marketing. Those folks usually undestand nothing but think they 
know everything better.

> In addition, I don't see why Unix design isn't a good fit for modern
> demands. Edward and Aitor have already made do-one-thing-and-do-it-well
> graphical automounters that, as far as I know, depend on neither
> systemd nor dbus. I once posted, on this list, a thumb drive plugin
> detector/mounter, and somebody else on the list improved on it.

Sorry, I must have missed that. Do you have a link to the software?

nik
 
> Relatively speaking, I don't think a Network-manager replacement would
> be difficult to build, although I never finished with my attempt.
> 
> Speaking of Netowrk manager, am I the only one who hates it messing
> with /etc/resolv.conf? You know what I'd like? I'd like
> /etc/resolv.conf to be a symlink to one of many files, such as
> resolv.dhcp, which *could* be modified by the network manager, and all
> sorts of others that can be switched in and out by a shellscript. Most
> folks would just use the symlink to resolv.dhcp, but folks like us
> could actually put our own unbound on our laptops and use a
> resolv.unbound or something like that.
> 
> A Nilsson, you're right: for the commercial actors, Linux is just like
> the cars from the 1950's: Change the fins and create a whole new reason
> to trade in. And the Appeal to Novelty is much stronger today than it
> was in the 1950's.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 13 Sep 11:13:02 -0500
 goli...@devuan.org scripsit:
> On 2020-09-13 01:14, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:11:48 -0500
> > goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > 
> >> On 2020-09-12 15:28, Steve Litt wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I think Devuan might want to "put back" POSIX commands Debian has
> >> > removed (but provides packages for). See the following thread from
> >> > Debian-User:
> >> >
> >> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00334.html
> >> >
> >> > Lennart Poettering has repeatedly and with certainty let us know he
> >> > has no use for POSIX. I guess now the Debian project is acting as
> >> > his proxy in this matter.
> >> >
> >> > Did you notice the one guy who said it would be "it would be 'rude'
> >> > to impose something wanted by only a part of the users"?
> >> >
> >> > Personally, if my operating system doesn't come, as a baseline, with
> >> > vi, ed, cut, grep, sed, awk, bc, dc, diff, dd, df, du, fg, head,
> >> > tail, and the like, then it isn't an OS I'd want to use. The fact
> >> > that an OS isn't certified POSIX is no excuse for deliberately
> >> > leaving out easily included POSIX programs and features.
> >> >
> >> > Is it possible for Devuan to "put back" what Debian sabotaged?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > SteveT
> >> >
> >> 
> >> Probably. Are you going to volunteer to do/oversee that?
> > 
> > Nope. My volunteering these days is difficult, much more important than
> > any Linux distro, and not bothered with by about 98% of the population
> > to which it's crucial. I'm blowing off time I really should be working
> > to do this volunteerism, and have no remaining time to learn
> > package-managership and then herd all the cats into accepting my
> > packaging solutions.
> > 
> > If I sound like an asshole, it's because I've had a very frustrating
> > several days, during which no good deed I did went unpunished.
> > 
> > SteveT
> > 
> 
> (to the sound of a mournful violin)
> 
> We all have priorities and those priorities will set the course of the 
> future of Linux as we have known it. But there are much bigger issues on 
> the horizon than POSIX. Heck, there are much bigger issues looming than 
> the future of Linux . . .
> 
> A link to this rant was posted on FDN yesterday. I had never heard of 
> Luke Smith before and was not particularly impressed with either his 
> presentational style or his bemoaning the death of white, male privilege 
> but . . . I could very well imagine Linux going down the path his 
> "nightmare" imagines.
> 
> https://libre.video/videos/watch/b576019d-8957-4efb-8571-6a14e0889136
> 
> If Debian doesn't wake up and reverse course what will become of Devuan? 
> The entire Linux ecosystem as we have known it could become a nostalgic 
> footnote in the history of the digital age.

From the link you posted earlier: some people think that the problems of debian 
are caused by systemd .. well, I would agree to that. But if Debian goes 
haywire, there is still FreeBSD. On my systems it started as a bckup plan just 
in case systemd would take over all linux world. Today it's my alternative OS 
for day to day work. And if you feel lonly, there's a community, too :)

https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2020/09/10/debian_project_address/

> 
> It's a good time to be old . . .
> 
> golinux
> 
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Re: [DNG] OT: mpv drops GNOME support

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 20:47:41 Wed, 8 Jul 2020 + (UTC)
 Tim Wallace via Dng scripsit:
>  The link mentions that gnome apps are "supposed to be used under gnome" and 
> after I upgraded to beowulf, I found that evince was unusable (I use xfce).  
> The rendering engine was working, but the defaults were unusable and it 
> failed to save new defaults.  The error messages referred to lacking 
> permissions to access/write a bunch of files in .local and .cache which 
> completely existed and were totally accessible.  Switching to "atril" worked 
> great.
> --Tim
> 
> On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 2:57:46 PM EDT, Jim Jackson 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  
> https://linuxreviews.org/Mpv_drops_GNOME_support
> 
> ... am I the only one to see similarities with the systemd situation?
> And both out of the same stable!

What a coincidence :) I dropped gnome years ago.
nik


> 
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> 
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Jessie End of Life (EOL) archiving

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

It's been a long journey - may it rest in peace. 

A word of condolence to anybody fixed on old hardware. If you cannot upgrade, 
there is still the BSD-family which offer support down to 80486. And they, too, 
are systemd-free :)

https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/i386.html
https://www.openbsd.org/i386.html
http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/i386/

Nik

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 1 Jul 12:37:35 +0100
 Mark Hindley scripsit:
> Friends,
> 
> On 30th June 2020, Debian was scheduled to end its Long Term Support (LTS) for
> Debian 8 ('Jessie')[1]. As a result, the Devuan Project will be archiving its
> first release, codename Jessie.  Since Jessie will receive no further
> maintenance or updates (including security fixes), it will be removed from
> Devuan's mirror network to a new Devuan service that has been set up to hold
> historical archived releases[2].
> 
> If you are still using Devuan Jessie, please upgrade to Devuan ASCII (or via
> ASCII to Beowulf) as a matter of urgency. Any users with very old x86 hardware
> (pure Pentium class processors) please note that Debian dropped support for 
> i586
> in Debian 9 ('Stretch')[3] so ASCII and subsequent releases will not work for
> you.
> 
> Also, the deprecated package repositories on http://packages.devuan.org and
> http://auto.mirror.devuan.org have only been maintained for compatibility with
> Devuan Jessie. They will be decommissioned very shortly. We kindly ask all 
> users
> of Devuan ASCII and Beowulf to ensure that they are using 
> http://deb.devuan.org
> in their APT sources lists.
> 
> Yours
> 
> Mark Hindley
> 
> On behalf of the Devuan Dev Team
> _
> 
> [1] https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Jessie
> [2] https://archive.devuan.org
> [3] 
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/i386/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#i386-is-now-almost-i686
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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 14 Jun 14:12:21 +0200
 J. Fahrner via Dng scripsit:
> [   22.579214] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI disk
> [ 1145.246051] EXT4-fs (sda1): mounted filesystem with ordered data

I see this on RPi, too, just the delay is smaller (~ 30 secs) - but that's 
anoying, too.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 14 Jun 13:03:13 +0200
 J. Fahrner via Dng scripsit:
> Am 2020-06-14 10:11, schrieb richard lucassen:
> > Did you format the disk with a newer system than the system you run it
> > on? So, I wonder what happens if you remove the huge_file option
> 
> I don't remember on which system I formatted that drive.
> After playing around the problem is very strange. It's not the 
> huge_files option.
> 
> With the "nofail" option in fstab the boot does not hang and I can 
> experiment a little bit.
> 
> I made a init script "mounthdd" which mounts the drive if it is not 
> already mounted, and execute it at several stages. Sometimes the mount 
> is successful, sometimes not. If I mount the drive interactively with 
> "sudo mount /hdd" I have 100% success. But if it's executed in 
> background, it mostly fails.
> 
> Next I wrote a little script "wait4hdd"
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> while ! mountpoint -q /hdd
> do
>sleep 10
> done
> 
> and inserted it in the init scripts for daemons that need the disk.
> Result: they are waiting endless.
> 
> Next I added a cronjob for root:
> */10 * * * * mountpoint -q /hdd || mount /hdd
> 
> That tries to mount the drive every 10 minutes if not already mounted.
> No success.
> 
> But if I do it interactively with "sudo mount /hdd" the drive gets 
> mounted and the waiting daemons are started.
> 
> I'm very confused...
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Are you 100% absolutely sure your board is not stuck at the bootloader stage 
before the kernel is started?


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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 13 Jun 10:53:51 +0200
 J. Fahrner via Dng scripsit:
> Am 2020-06-13 10:31, schrieb richard lucassen:
> > The nofail means that it wil mount automatically, but if the disk
> > is absent it won't give errors. But it does not wait for the device!
> 
> The disk has itś own power supply and is always connected. I think there 
> is something missing at the boot stage (driver?).
> 
> > ok, I assume it's u-boot? In that case you can easily try to boot from
> > another disk. But apparently you do not have access to the device?
> 
> I don't know the boot process. I think it's like a Raspberry Pi. There 
> is a little FAT partion and a EXT4 root partition on emmc. Since it is 
> headless, I only can access it through ssh. When it does not boot I have 
> to open it, remove the emmc card, insert it into an adapter and reverse 
> my changes on pc.This is very elaborate. So I need a straightforward 
> method to isolate the problem.

Don't you have access to a serial port on the device so that you can observe 
the boot process? Maybe it's stuck at the bootloader stage.

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 24 May 09:28:58 -0400
 Hendrik Boom scripsit:
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:55:43AM +, aitor_czr wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On 05/24/2020 11:28 AM, al3xu5 / dotcommon wrote:
> > > I still have some doubts if LXQt could be a better choice.
> > > 
> > > Thanks again for your support
> > > Regards
> > 
> > I have my doubts about Qt in general:
> > 
> > https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-offering-changes-2020
> 
> What similar tools stil *are* free?  And likely to remain so.

TDE with it's qt3 fork :)

> 
> And reasonably debugged and useable?
> 
> And conseptually and physically simple?
>  
> -- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf, and Apparmor's effect on bind9

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 19:54:55 Sat, 23 May 2020 +0100 (BST)
 Jim Jackson scripsit:
> 
> Generally, why does apparmor get installed on a dist-upgrade, when it 
> wasn't there initially? It isn't as if it's a new "thing". I got it
> on my ascii -> beowulf upgrade, and removed it.
> 
> My desktop was LXQt and the upgrade ignored some customisations. Among 
> other minor iritants the LXQt-panel designers decided to change the clock 
> widget and gave it a new name, FFS, and so the old "clock" disappeared but 
> it's replacement was missing from the config. Nothing to indicate that it 
> is now "worldclock", until one googled and hand edited the panel config! If 
> Linus was as cavalier in his developemnt approach Linux would never have 
> been taken up as it has. Why is it the shiny-blingy stuff is so crap?
> 
> Any recommendations for a better panel?

Use TDE ... :)

> 
> Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Fri, 22 May 01:42:46 -0700
 Rick Moen via Dng scripsit:
> Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> 
> >     Well, *they* claimed their model was to make money out of
> > complexity, as Steve reported. It's not a suputation, it's an
> > official statement. Therefore no idea of a conspiracy from Steve.
> 
> I note without special objection that you aren't addressing even
> _remotely_ addressing the question.
> 
> C'mon, Didier.  Explain please how adoption of systemd in RHEL and
> CentOS either gave RHAT a superior competitive market position relative
> to other market-relevant Linux distro companies or improved RHAT's
> financial strength.  Trace out, please, the mechanism for how
> specifically that worked, according to you.  (Please don't forget that
> the codebase in question is open source, ergo you're going to have a
> very difficult time asserting proprietary advantage, if that's what
> you're thinking.)

"Pleas tell me how this particular nail helps to keep the cabin intact." That's 
devide&conquer, one cannot give a valid answer. But you can take a look at 
goverment tenders. e.g. Austria: RH is specificly asked for, not Linux. Guess 
why ...

Nik

> 
> I stand ready to check and verify your financial analysis.
> 
> Ideological handwaves are not an answer to the question posed.
> 
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Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 21 May 13:09:32 +0100
 ael scripsit:
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 05:04:57AM +0100, tux...@sapo.pt wrote:
> > I forgot..
> > The bootloader needs support for f2fs, but since you are able to launch the
> > kernel, it should be supported by definition( it loads the kernel into
> > memory...so it access the block device.. )..
> 
> But you need the f2fs module in the initramfs as well, so that might be
> the problem. See also
> http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=21951#p21951

Not with the "stock" kernel you get when running rpi-update. It has f2fs built 
in, not as a module. I doublechecked that yesterday :)

> 
> ael
> 
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Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 21 May 11:30:31 +0200
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 21/05/2020 à 02:05, Steve Litt a écrit :
> > Rick Moen via Dng  wrote:
> >
> >> conspiracy hypothesis.
> > Conspiracies happen. Not every event is brought forth by a single
> > person. I remember a time when scads of us Linux enthusiasts conspired
> > to depose Microsoft. "Conspiracy theory" is not an insult, regardless
> > of how people use the phrase.
> >
>      I bet conspiracies happen all the time. Many people spend time 
> conspiring. But very few conspirations succeed or even have a little 
> effect. But it isn't the case here.

When you take a look at "government media" in EU and Austria in particular you 
will find that there's a bashing of people not conforming with mainstream 
media. Narrative goes "you do not love your goverment, you think there's a 
hidden agenda, so you belive in UFOs which proofs you are right winged". You 
might think of this as a conspiracy on it's own, even when you find out that 
Boston Consulting runs thinktank of Kurz ... which is definitly a proof that 
I'm wearing a tinfoil head ... 

Nik


> 
>      When a company takes action to increase its share of the market 
> and/or its cash flow, we normally do not call that a conspiration. It is 
> legitimate to write about it and discuss the actions it takes. 
> Discussing the effect and the cause of these actions does not mean we 
> consider it a conspiracy. One of the characters of a conspiracy is to be 
> secret. In the case of RedHat, it isn't, they have stated it publicly.
> 
>      Didier
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 21 May 05:00:03 +0100
 tux...@sapo.pt scripsit:
> Citando Dr. Nikolaus Klepp :
> 
> > Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 21:56:16 +0100
> > ael scripsit:
> >> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:35:22PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote:
> >> On Tuesday 19 May 2020 at 22:30:50, ael wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am hoping to install beowulf onto a new laptop in a week or two.
> >>> I use f2fs on several drives with good results, so I want to
> >>> use it on the root partition. f2fs seems the obvious choice on ssd's.
> >>
> >> https://howtos.davidsebek.com/debian-f2fs.html may be what you need.
> >
> > Has anybody done this successfully on beowulf? I tried today but the  
> > kernel crashed - last message was something about it not beeing able  
> > to mount the root filesystem. The kernel I used was from the  
> > "official" rpi repository, it has f2fs built in.
> >  
> 
> I haven tried yet with f2fs, but its in my list :)
> Check if you compiled the kernel with f2fs support, check if rootfs is  
> formated with f2fs, and if the fstab partition type is f2fs..

Check on both ... and the kernel can mount f2fs partitions, if root is on ext4. 
It just does not like root on f2fs, which is odd.

Nik

>  
> 



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Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 21:56:16 +0100
 ael scripsit:
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:35:22PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote:
> > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 at 22:30:50, ael wrote:
> > 
> > > I am hoping to install beowulf onto a new laptop in a week or two.
> > > I use f2fs on several drives with good results, so I want to
> > > use it on the root partition. f2fs seems the obvious choice on ssd's.
> > 
> > https://howtos.davidsebek.com/debian-f2fs.html may be what you need.
> 

Has anybody done this successfully on beowulf? I tried today but the kernel 
crashed - last message was something about it not beeing able to mount the root 
filesystem. The kernel I used was from the "official" rpi repository, it has 
f2fs built in.

Nik

> Thanks for that. That seems to be a workaround for the deficiences of
> the debian installer, and I guess that I might have to do something like
> that. But I was hoping that the devuan installer might be a bit better.
> 
> I hope that the devuan installer already has the f2fs modules in its
> initramfs: despite that howto, I think that it is only the f2fs module
> itself that is needed. So that would be a simple lightweight change to
> the devuan version if it is not already there.
> 
> Then the f2fs-tools,libf2fs-format4 and libf2fs5 packages need to be
> added to the pool. Is much else needed? 
> 
> I suppose that I might be able to build an installation image like that
> myself and see what happens.
> 
> ael
> 
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Re: [DNG] When spaces aren't just spaces [Was] Has anybody else experienced Raspberry Pi breakage ?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 08:09:46 +0200
 marc scripsit:
> Hello
> 
> This is a bit unrelated, but might be worth warning people about. Some editors
> no longer seem to be satisfied inserting plain spaces, but now deem it 
> necessary
> the extra bytes . This might break small parsers which only consider
> ' ' and \t as a delimiter. 'cat -A' will help you find them 
> 
> Below is the fstab entry that you included in your mail, run through 'cat -A'
> 
> > and my fstab:$
> > '# cat /etc/fstab$
> > $
> > # M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM- 
> >  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM-
> > M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- $
> > /dev/mmcblk0p1M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- /bootM-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- 
> > vfatM-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- defaultsM-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- 0M-BM- 
> > M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- 2$
> > /dev/mmcblk0p2M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- /M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- 
> > ext4M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- defaults,noatimeM-BM- M-BM-  M-BM-
> > 0M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- 1$
> > /dev/zram0 M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- swapM-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  
> > swapM-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  pri=1M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- 
> > M-BM-  M-BM- 0M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- M-BM- M-BM-  M-BM- 0'$
> > $

Which editors do this?

Nik

> 
> regards
> 
> marc
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Has anybody else experienced Raspberry Pi breakage ?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 17 May 13:20:13 +0100
 g4sra via Dng scripsit:
> I have an old Rpi 2B that will boot its original Raspbian fine but panics 
> 'killing init' on Devuan.
> Has anybody else experienced this ? 
> 
> The only difference I can discern is that the Devuan repository executables 
> (init) are compiled as PIE.
> Any suggestions to further the diagnosis of this issue gratefully received.

I have devuan running o a A+. I did not see this here. Maybe your SD card is 
broken?

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Otter Browser

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 26 Apr 16:59:23 +0200
 aitor scripsit:
> Hi again,
> 
> On 26/4/20 16:51, aitor wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recently debianized the Otter Browser:
> >
> > https://otter-browser.org/
> >
> > which aims to recreate the best aspects of the classic Opera (12.x) UI 
> > using Qt5.
> >
> > Here you are the packages for beowulf:
> >
> > http://packages.gnuinos.org/?dir=gnuinos/pool/main/o/otter-browser
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Aitor.
> >
> Here you are a screenshot:
> 
> http://gnuinos.org/screenshots/Screenshot_2020-04-26_16-45-15.png
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 
> 

Works :) How is this nice thing in respect to privacy ?

Nik


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Re: [DNG] What an Ad hominem!

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 18 Apr 14:12:08 +
 aitor_czr scripsit:
> Hi,
> 
> El 2020-04-18 a las 13:51, aitor_czr escribió:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Today I replayed to the translation into spanish of one article 
> > written by a systemd developer in Lennart Pottering's blog,
> >
> > and arguing (*aside* of the translated article) that most of the 
> > systemd detractors are also propietary software defenders:
> >
> > https://maslinux.es/en-defensa-de-systemd/
> >
> > The replay was limited to 1800 characters.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Aitor.
> >
> The targeted article is the same article mentioned by Jude Nelson in his 
> blog:
> 
> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
> 
> Aitor.

When systemd still needs that kind of justification to defend itself, then it's 
most likely facing some problems.

> 
> 
> 



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Re: [DNG] Current state of VPN software ?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 8 Apr 21:14:05 +0100
 Simon Hobson scripsit:
> It's been a while since I last did anything with VPNs on Linux, and I recall 
> there being 3 options, some of which were "less well supported" than others. 
> I'm looking to setup a site-site tunnel so I can remotely access stuff at 
> mum's (she's in isolation because of this Covid 19 stuff) and using remote 
> desktop control, connect her Mac to a video call.
> 
> So what's the state of play in the VPN on Linux world - both ends would be 
> running Devuan (one end an AMD64 VM, the other end rPi) ? Last thing I used 
> was OpenVPN which AIUI is completely non-interoperable with anything else, 
> while FreeSwan and OpenSwan were having a bun fight.

vpn easiest way: sshuttle
otherwise just use ssh + vnc (on the mac)

nik

> 
> Simon
> 
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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 7 Apr 14:11:57 -0500
 Rod Rodolico scripsit:
> yes. There is an icon on the screen (browser based) showing network
> speed and drops. It will automagically change frame rate, though that is
> not seamless. However, there is a menu item that allows you to change
> your image quality from the browser session.
> 
> The 8Mb/s was on my server. I believe my client in most sessions has
> been running a lot less, though I haven't checked that yet. I'm guessing
> around 2Mb/s, but not sure.

Upstream or downstream?

Nik

> 
> Rod
> 
> 
> On 04/07/2020 09:45 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 01:05:10AM -0500, Rod Rodolico wrote:
> >> I just installed a Jitsi instance on one of my old servers last week. My
> >> 15 year old granddaughter did most of the work. We built it as a Xen
> >> virtual with 10G disk, 4G RAM and 4 dedicated cores. We used ASCII as
> >> the Distro.
> >>
> >> Tests so far have been two people (test for more planned for later this
> >> week). With two people in the video conference, we ran about 8Mb/s
> >> pretty steady the whole hour. Processor was about 40% on all four cores
> >> and RAM was pretty much untouched.
> > 
> > Looks a little tight.  My DSL link provides 6 Mbps.  I wonder if it 
> > adjusts the video quality or framerate to match the aailable bandwidth.
> > 
> > -- hendrik
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> 



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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 7 Apr 13:07:47 +
 dal scripsit:
> > From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of g4sra via Dng
> > Sent: den 7 april 2020 14:31
> 
> > zoom is not an evil company, unlike Google they do not set out to take your 
> > data, they are just a bit security naive.
> 
> How can you know/control what they will do with your data?
> Google is a troubled reference in this very sense, known for touting "not 
> being evil".
> 
> To remain on-topic, which is to recommend something good,
> we really should not suggest trusting one's data to a "security naïve" party
> (especially when its business is pretty much to act as a man-in-the-middle).
> 
> /D

Second that. I love qTox, but I need something for a lecture. Jitsi or  
https://meet.jit.si/ look like a nice thing - as long as I do not forget to 
revoke mic+camera permissions after the session :/

Nik

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Re: [DNG] couldn't register with accessibility bus in Beowulf (workaround)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 25 Mar 16:31:48 -0700
 Gregory Nowak scripsit:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 08:18:12AM +0100, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Stupid question: are you sure this is the showstopper? I have the same 
> > error message, but everything works as normal.
> 
> I am very, very sure this is the show stopper. Are you using orca, or
> looking at your monitor?

Oh my, I read "ocra", not "orca", sorry ...

> 
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 08:06:22AM +, Daniel Abrecht via Dng wrote:
> > To me, it seams to be caused by a combination of something `lightdm` does,
> > and something `at-spi-bus-launcher` does not do.
> > After a login with `lightdm`, the X11 root window has the `AT_SPI_BUS`
> > property set (`xprop -root AT_SPI_BUS`), however, it seams the
> > `at-spi-bus-launcher`/`at-spi2-registryd` instance which created that
> > property does not exist anymore, causing applications to fail to connect to
> > it. In addition to this, the presence of that property prevents a new
> > instance of `at-spi-bus-launcher`
> >  from starting.
> 
> Thanks, that explanation does make sense.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:06:57AM +, Mark Hindley wrote:
> > I can conform that slim seems to do the right thing at the AT_SPI_BUS is 
> > set and
> > available.
> 
> That makes sense, since slim doesn't have ATSPI support as far as I
> know, where as lightdm does through lightdm-gtk-greeter.
> 
> > That bug also suggests another workaround of setting 'xserver-share=false' 
> > in
> > /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf which also seems to work.
> 
> OK, I'll explore that along with the other solution you mentioned.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:51:18AM +, Mark Hindley wrote:
> > There are also the most recent comments[1] in Debian bug #911362 which 
> > relates
> > to Buster and lightdm.
> > 
> > Does installing libatk-adaptor help?
> 
> I'll report back on this too when I have access to the machine I did
> the install on in a few hours. Thanks everyone.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 



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Re: [DNG] couldn't register with accessibility bus in Beowulf

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 24 Mar 21:39:08 -0700
 Gregory Nowak scripsit:
> Hi all.
> 
> I'd like to start a dedicated thread on this issue. Most users are
> simply annoyed by the message in the subject in their
> $HOME/.xsession-errors file. However, since one of the services that
> can't connect to the accessibility bus is gnome-orca (the gtk screen
> reader software orca for short), this error isn't just annoying to me,
> it's a show
> stopper as far as using the GUI goes.

Stupid question: are you sure this is the showstopper? I have the same error 
message, but everything works as normal.

> 
> I've been exploring this, and have some questions for people with the
> same issue, which will hopefully start us on the road to solving it:
> 
> 1. Do you also see these errors if you stop the login manager, and run
> startx by hand? I don't, and orca runs just fine.
> 
> 2. What login manager are you using, lightdm, slim, something else?
> I'm using lightdm. If this happens regardless of the login manager
> used, then it would seem to be login manager agnostic.
> 
> 3. Does anyone here happen to have an already installed debian system
> you could test on to see if you have this error message? If no one
> else can check it in debian, I'll put doing a debian install on my to
> do list. If this also happens in debian, upstream is the source of the
> problem. If these messages don't show up in a .xsession-errors on a
> debian system, then this is Beowulf specific it would seem.
> 
> That's all from me for now.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 



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Re: [DNG] Is anybody using Discord for virtual get-togethers in Devuan?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Mon, 23 Mar 23:00:57 +0100
 Florian Zieboll scripsit:
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 16:58:58 +0100
> "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:
> 
> > Anno domini 2020 Mon, 23 Mar 15:14:15 +0100
> >  Florian Zieboll scripsit:
> >
> > > May I ask for your tangible opinion
> > > on / experience with qtox resp. the tox protocol in general?
> >
> > Hi Florian!
> >
> > No irony intended :) I use tox myself for basicly anything that
> > otherwise would be done face2face. The thing I especially like is
> > that you do not have to create an account on a centralized server.
> > Just create an ID, send it do somebody, accept his/her invitation and
> > that's it. I've made a small script that fires up qTox when I plug in
> > my usb headset :)
> >
> > @protocol: well, it works. Is it secure? Kind of, did no analysis of
> > it. Compared to mumble (which I had running 3 years ago) it's fine
> > with low bandwidth (chat and audio, video is another thing), I can
> > publish a screen or a defined region as video source (which is great
> > for teaching), and there are no offline messages (email is for
> > offline).
> >
> > Nik
> 
> 
> Hallo Nik,
> 
> thank you very much for your feedback! I just had started testing it
> (with qtox for Linux and trifa for Android) but felt somewhat unsure if
> I'd want to "spread the word" due to the quite negative connotation of
> the German Wikipedia article [1], and an LWN.net article [2] about some
> trouble within the core developing team.

Well, LWN article was 5 years ago (2 years after start of project), so that's 
like trojan war news :)
And wikipedia .. well, it' wikipedia, isn't it? 

Nik

> 
> I like the "serverless" p2p concept very much and was impressed how
> well it performs - and also of qtox's "feature completeness". As tox
> uses common crypto libs (libnacl / libsodium), I hope that the
> mentioned security issues have been mitigated - and even if not, I am
> confident that a wider use of it will move it more into focus of
> possible security auditors.
> 
> Best regards and libre Grüße,
> Florian
> 
> 
> [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tox_(Protokoll)
> [2] https://lwn.net/Articles/651003/
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Re: [DNG] Is anybody using Discord for virtual get-togethers in Devuan?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Mon, 23 Mar 15:14:15 +0100
 Florian Zieboll scripsit:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 08:57:32 +0100
> "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:
> 
> > Anno domini 2020 Sat, 21 Mar 02:08:45 -0400
> >  Steve Litt scripsit:
> >
> > > I need audio, video, and the ability to show what's on my screen.
> >
> > Use qtox, it's in the repository.
> 
> 
> Hallo Nikolaus,
> 
> the lack of a leading "I" in your statement ("I use...") makes it sound
> like hidden irony - which (I think) is not a good idea to make use of
> on a public list. May I ask for your tangible opinion on / experience
> with qtox resp. the tox protocol in general?

Hi Florian!

No irony intended :) I use tox myself for basicly anything that otherwise would 
be done face2face. The thing I especially like is that you do not have to 
create an account on a centralized server. Just create an ID, send it do 
somebody, accept his/her invitation and that's it. I've made a small script 
that fires up qTox when I plug in my usb headset :)

@protocol: well, it works. Is it secure? Kind of, did no analysis of it. 
Compared to mumble (which I had running 3 years ago) it's fine with low 
bandwidth (chat and audio, video is another thing), I can publish a screen or a 
defined region as video source (which is great for teaching), and there are no 
offline messages (email is for offline). 

Nik


> 
> Thank you very much,
> Florian
> 
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Re: [DNG] Is anybody using Discord for virtual get-togethers in Devuan?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 21 Mar 02:08:45 -0400
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 09:13:40 -0400
> Dan Purgert  wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 20, 2020, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > Is anybody using Discord in Devuan for virtual get-togethers?  
> > 
> > Ew, no.  IRC, Usenet, and mailing lists. 
> > 
> 
> I need audio, video, and the ability to show what's on my screen.

Use qtox, it's in the repository.

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt
> March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb
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Re: [DNG] Is anybody using Discord for virtual get-togethers in Devuan?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Fri, 20 Mar 08:38:32 -0400
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> Is anybody using Discord in Devuan for virtual get-togethers?

Nop. I have tox :)

Nik
> 
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt
> March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb
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Re: [DNG] ibus

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 17 Mar 10:27:11 +0100
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
>      Hey, did you hear of ibus?
> 
>      I installed a video-conferencing app on monday, to possibly join a 
> meeting. It came with plenty of dependencies, including something called 
> "ibus". There is a Debian packege for it available on Devuan.
> 
>      According to the poor man page and online documentation, this is an 
> "Intelligent Input Bus". AFAIU, it is a layer between keyboard 
> keystrokes, mouse-moves and mouse-clicks and the input to an application 
> - all user inputs merged in one channel. The goal is to plug into it 
> various interfaces to express complex characters and/or ideograms by 
> composing several keystrokes. Kind of keyboard to Unicode interface. 
> Excellent idea if this was done by using just a command and piping the 
> output to the application needing it.
> 
>      It is implemented on both Mac (therefore free-BSD), and Linux. 
> Dunno how it is made on Free-BSD, but on Linux it is - guess what - a 
> daemon!, further more, applications must talk to this daemon through - 
> guess what - Dbus!
> 
>      I discovered this because, after a reboot, this daemon, normally 
> unseen, suddenly popped up a small window on my desktop to remind me 
> that the new keystroke to perform wtf was shift-space. Actually this 
> daemon was sitting there all the time.
> 
>      I addition, it turned my English keyboard to a US one. Not the real 
> keyboard, of course, but the key mapping, when I type a double-quote, I 
> get an arrowbas!
> 
>      I like US keyboard because I started writing programs 
> 40 years ago when there was only US keyboards and ASCII, but it is 
> impossible to buy an HP laptop with a US keyboard in France; you can 
> only buy one with a keyboard of any European type or Saoudian. I chose 
> UK which is the closest to US.
> 
>      After uninstalling ibus, and dependencies, my keyboard mapping is 
> correct again.
> 
>      There's now a fashion of doing all innovations in a complicated 
> way. It seems developpers have become unable to think simple. This is 
> terribly disapointing.
> 
>          Didier

Oh my, that pestilence still has not died? I rember ages ago I was tempted to 
use it as an "easy" way to inject mouse+keyboard events from userspace program 
into X11. Turned out, it was an overcomplicated way to solve a problem that 
"xdotool" has solved already.

Nik



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Re: [DNG] The real reason I like Linux

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 14 Mar 23:54:07 -0700
 tom scripsit:
> On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 15:08:37 +
> Mark Rousell  wrote:
> 
> > I am not opposing your central message in any way, but...
> > 
> > On 13/03/2020 02:59, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > involves programming, and most people can't
> > > do that.
> > >
> > > Oh really? 12 lines of code and they can't do it (or have a friend
> > > help do it)?
> > 
> > Really. There is no way on earth that the average computer user could
> > even come close to writing a program or script and this applies to
> > most of their friends too.
> > 
> > Some people might be able to use a macro recorder or a graphical tool
> > that allows them to assemble functional blocks to create a script, but
> > even that much would be too much for most end users in my experience.
> > End users want to use, to consume. Creating/programming is not in
> > their mindset.
> > 
> > 
> > It strikes me that back when I first got into computers (the early
> > 80s), there was a sense of optimism that the rapid growth of widely
> > affordable technology would result in a new golden era of technical
> > literacy. Oh dear, how naive.
> > 
> > Instead, the techies, geeks and entrepreneurs made technology
> > *easier*. We made it so that it was easier for end users to consume,
> > to use what was offered to them. There was no need for the
> > non-technical end users to learn anything. It all just works. Or, if
> > it doesn't work, they throw it away and try something else. And so
> > that golden age of technical literacy has never really arrived. What
> > we have now is billions of consumers and, proportionately speaking,
> > fewer and fewer people who actually know how it all works.
> > 
> > Thus, the average user (even the average Linux user, I suspect) is not
> > going to be scripting stuff any time soon (other than maybe by typing
> > in stuff they Googled).
> > 
> 
> I strongly feel like this kind of user should stay away from Linux and
> just use Windows. When those kind of users displace the original
> user-base of literate people they start making the system as a whole
> worse for the core community who built the thing in the first place.
> 

Errr  this is what just happend in the last decade(s), peaking in systemd 
and gnome3.

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Re: [DNG] Solving simple problems in amazingly complicated ways

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 12 Mar 19:03:14 -0500
 John Morris scripsit:
> On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 21:45 +, Rainer Weikusat via Dng wrote:
> > - the sole purpose of this text is for the amusement of people who
> > ever
> >   had to find a (preferably simple) solution for a complicated problem
> > -
> > 
> > Problem I had to deal with since yesterday: Some Debian 10 system (use
> > of systemd mandated) installation I've created was to be captured by a
> > certain image capturing tool running on Windows. As it turned out to
> > be,
> > this capturing tool has no support for Linux swap partitions and thus,
> > tries to capture them by doing a sector-by-sectory copy of random junk
> > which won't ever be of any use again.
> > 
> > Proposed solution: Turn that into an ext4 filesystem, record the UUID,
> > run a script at boot to convert it back to a swap partition. This
> > could
> > have been solved by suitable manipulation of /etc/rcS-symlinks but the
> > mere thought of something as unsophisticated at that would cause
> > systemd
> > developers to start spinning until the reach escape velocity, never to
> > be seen again - and who could possibly want that.
> 
> How about a simpler solution?
> On shutdown:
> 1. Capture the label and UUID of the swap partition.
> 2. Do a swapoff.
> 3. Zero out the swap partition.
> 4. Remake it with the same label and UUID.
> 
> It will still get a sector by sector copy but assuming it is compressed
> it will be of trivial size.

LOL ... to make things more interesting, I'd suggest this:
- on shutdown: remove the swap-partition from the partition table
- on boot: create an entry in the partition table for swap and use it
Noe there might be interestring sideeffects :)

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Re: [DNG] FF now defaults to DNS-over-HTTPS for US

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 4 Mar 15:01:55 -0500
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 18:43:01 -0500
> Clarke Sideroad via Dng  wrote:
> 
> > On 2020-03-03 5:45 p.m., spiralofhope wrote:
> > > This helps me remember:
> > > E for English   "grEy"
> > > A for American  "grAy"
> > >  
> > I attempt to be trilingual in "English".
> > Thanks, that memory tool is great.
> > In Canada we say GrEh, but we spell it the English way. (-;
> 
> It's aboat the same thing, eh?

Are you sure that femails would not use slightly more elaborate color names? 
Maybe it's just a misunderstanding and "grey" is used for the more redish tones 
an "gray" for a more greeish tones? All indistinguishable for mail eyes, so 
mails think that it's something about geolocation?

Nik

>  
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
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> http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 27 Feb 21:34:32 +0100
 viverna scripsit:
> il devuanizzato Dr. Nikolaus Klepp  il 26-02-20 21:43:41 ha 
> scritto:
> >Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Feb 20:15:59 +0100
> > viverna scripsit:
> >> I don't try Trinity, there is in Devuan repo?
> >>
> >
> >add these, they work for beowulf, too:
> >
> >deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster deps-r14 
> >extra-r14 main-r14
> >deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster deps-r14 
> >extra-r14 main-r14
> >
> >Then install trinity-keyring and then tde-trinity.
> >
> >Nik
> A curiosity please... why isn't in official Devuan repo?
> 

Nobody had time to fix the naming :) Actually you can replace "buster" by 
"beowulf", but as it's only a link to the buster repository, you get a warning. 
And as there's no systemd or other debian specific dependency, it's just the 
naming.

Nik



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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Feb 20:15:59 +0100
 viverna scripsit:
> il devuanizzato Dimitris via Dng  il 26-02-20 14:07:14 ha 
> scritto:
> >On 2/25/20 10:07 PM, viverna wrote:
> >> LXDE is ancestor of LXQt. However is a wonderful DE mostly with openbox
> >> combination. Openbox is great even alone.
> >
> >MATE with Openbox is a lighter possibility too..
> Yes, MATE is a good DE (fork of Gnome 2 before Gnome 3 madness). Time 
> ago Gnome 2 has been my first choice DE... 
> 
> >kinda of think of those as systemd-like DEs, bloated to the bone.).
> Kde3 and Gnome2 are best version of the corresponding DE. Gnome3 are 
> very very insane and "phone-centric". Kde4 is too big.
> 
> However some KDE apps are very good. I use it often.
> 
> >LXDE is not abandoned, but it's missing stuff that you have to get from
> >other DEs (=download extra libs, packages..), same as LXQT which is 
> >very interesting..
> LXDE is perfect for me. This is my opinion.
> 
> >Trinity was very buggy last 2 times i tried it, completely unusable for
> >me..  (even though my first ever DE was kde3 and i wanted it to work 
> >for old times sake... :D )
> I don't try Trinity, there is in Devuan repo?
> 

add these, they work for beowulf, too:

deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster deps-r14 extra-r14 
main-r14
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster deps-r14 
extra-r14 main-r14

Then install trinity-keyring and then tde-trinity.

Nik



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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!

Anno domini 2020 Tue, 25 Feb 16:29:58 +0100
 al3xu5 / dotcommon scripsit:
> Hi all
> 
> I am using Devuan (2.1) + MATE DE since 08/2016... 
> Now I wish to change DE but I am in doubt: XFCE or LXDE or LXQt???
> 
> Please, based on your experience and knowledge of Devuan and DEs, can
> you help me in choosing (avoiding me to invest too much time doing long
> experiments)?

IMO you should definitly try TDE https://trinitydesktop.org ... but you could 
also say that I'm a bit biased here :)

Nik

> Consider that I mainly use office applications (libreoffice), realtime audio
> (rec, play, editing) jack + alsa (no pulseaudio), graphical editing with icc
> color management (mainly gimp and inkscape), scripting (mainly bash, html + 
> css
> + php ), virtualization with qemu-kvm and virt-manager ... and I would like a
> de that has the least dependencies but also remains stable and "comfortable" 
> in
> configuration, personalization and use...
> 
> So what you suggest should be the first choice to bet on?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 



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Re: [DNG] Testimages of LinuxCNC & devuan

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Mon, 17 Feb 13:58:15 +0100
 Aitor scripsit:
> Hi Nik,
> 
> On 16/2/20 11:03, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > I think - like with all google stuff - you need javascript to access:(
> >
> > Nik
> 
> There is a download option doing a right click, zipping the folder.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 
> 

Ok ... I really don't like that google stuff. Anyway, for me the testimage 
workes quite nice. :)

Nik



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Re: [DNG] Testimages of LinuxCNC & devuan

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 16 Feb 10:39:29 +0100
 Aitor scripsit:
> Hi Nik,
> 
> On 15/2/20 10:38, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > For all that are interested in machining: There are testimages for LinuxCNC 
> > on Devuan available for testing (I'd suggest you try the RTAI version):
> >
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/38342-iso-for-a-sysvinit-distribution?start=10#157395
> >
> > Nik
> 
> The images are available here (i suppose):
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1y0TaaIEyoWIS3qPkGop9zoJD0Xa879K2
> 
> But i can't enter into the devuan2-ascii and devuan3-beowulf folders.
> 
> Aitor.
> 
> 
> 

I think - like with all google stuff - you need javascript to access :(

Nik


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[DNG] Testimages of LinuxCNC & devuan

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

For all that are interested in machining: There are testimages for LinuxCNC on 
Devuan available for testing (I'd suggest you try the RTAI version):

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/38342-iso-for-a-sysvinit-distribution?start=10#157395

Nik
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Re: [DNG] why is polkit needed?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Fri, 14 Feb 11:30:03 +0100
 Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 14/02/2020 à 08:24, Tito via Dng a écrit :
> > On 2/14/20 3:37 AM, Ozi Traveller via Dng wrote:
> >> Does this help? You've probably seen this already.
> >>
> >> https://mike632t.wordpress.com/2019/11/17/gksu-is-dead-long-live-pkexec/
> >>
> >> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/polkit/docs/0.105/pkexec.1.html
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:28 PM Gastón via Dng  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>     On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 03:16:58PM -0800, tom wrote:
> >>  > On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:50:15 +
> >>  > Mark Hindley  >> > wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  > > On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 05:44:17PM +0100, Alessandro Vesely 
> >> via Dng
> >>  > > wrote:
> >>  > > > Hi,
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > is there a recommended GUI package browser for Devuan?
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > After migrating, synaptic isn't installed. If I try to 
> >> install it,
> >>  > > > it says it needs policykit-1.  Since the latter seems to 
> >> be akin to
> >>  > > > systemd, I reply 'n'.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > I really don't think that is true. There is no direct 
> >> relationship
> >>  > > between policykit-1 and systemd. And our policykit works 
> >> with either
> >>  > > elogind or consolekit, so you have options.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > If you want a integrated gui desktop that allows you to do 
> >> privileged
> >>  > > things like install packages, you will need policykit-1 or 
> >> something
> >>  > > similar.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Alternatively, use apt or aptitude from the commandline.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Mark
> >>  > > ___
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> >>  > > Dng@lists.dyne.org 
> >>  > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> >>  >
> >>  > Sorry, can you explain why exactly polkit is needed here? What 
> >> is wrong
> >>  > with what everyone was doing before polkit which was gksu or 
> >> gksudo?
> >>  >
> >>     gksu is no longer available from Beowulf. Now, apparently, you 
> >> have to
> >>     use: pkexec
> >>
> >>     I'm in touch with the GNU/EterTics developer and he's having trouble
> >>     running d-i from Live Mode on a beta version with Beowulf he's 
> >> testing.
> >>
> >>     He used to launch the d-i from Live mode using this command:
> >>     `su-tu-root-X-c /usr/sbin/debian-installer-launcher`, but 
> >> su-tu-root is
> >>     no longer available.
> >>
> >>     When he wants to launch the d-i from Live mode using this command:
> >>     `pkexec /usr/sbin/debian-installer-launcher` , the installer does 
> >> not
> >>     start in GUI mode.
> >>
> >>     Yesterday we tried several alternatives, like this one, but without
> >>     success:
> >>
> >>     We tried running it this way:
> >>     `pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY
> >>     /usr/sbin/debian-installer-launcher` , with this it tries to open a
> >>     window, but closes immediately.
> >>
> >>     We couldn't get pkexec to run the d-I in GUI mode from live-version.
> >>     Nor is there much documentation about its use available.
> >>
> >>     Has anyone been through this using pkexec?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Hi,
> > you can try with sudo I tested it with synaptic and it seems to work:
> >
> > 1) add the live-mode user to /etc/sudoers with the nopasswd directive
> >    for the needed command e.g.:
> >    live-user ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/synaptic
> >
> > 2) run sudo synaptic from a commandline in the live session
> >    or add it to a panel launcher (works in xfce)
> >    or edit a .desktop file
> 
> 
>      Hi.
> 
>      AFAIR sudo does not transmit the X session. I heard years ago of 
> something called sudox. Dunno if it is available somewhere. I dislike 
> pkexec - just because of polkit - and used to use gksu or gksudo to run 
> synaptic. One can also fall back to 'ssh -X root@localhost synaptic' but 
> you must configure your ssh server to allow X sessions on root when 
> connection is on localhost.

There was a "sux" on ascii (or was it lenny?), that did thi thing for su. 
Pitty, it's gone.

Nik

> 
>      Didier
> 
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[DNG] Is there a netboot.tar.gz ?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi all!

Is there something like debians netboot.tar.gz for devuan? 

Nik


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Re: [DNG] Devuan /etc/os-relase - no VERSION info?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 1 Feb 05:55:05 -0600
 hal scripsit:
> Hi,
> I'm in the middle of patching a bunch of systems (Ubuntu, Devuan and 
> Debian flavors) and noticed Devuan's /etc/os-release file doesn't 
> contain any VERSION tags.
> 
> This file comes in handy for parsing from shell scripts when lsb_release 
> isn't installed or /etc/issue has been customized.
> 
> Is this intended or just an oversight?

It's present on beowulf:

$ cat /etc/os-release 
PRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)"
NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="3"
VERSION="3 (beowulf)"
VERSION_CODENAME=beowulf
ID=debian
ID_LIKE=debian
HOME_URL="https://www.devuan.org/";
SUPPORT_URL="https://devuan.org/os/community";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.devuan.org/";


> 
> 
> Devuan Ascii
> 
> PRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux ascii"
> NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux"
> ID=devuan
> ID_LIKE=debian
> HOME_URL="https://www.devuan.org/";
> SUPPORT_URL="https://devuan.org/os/community";
> BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.devuan.org/";
> 
> 
> 
> Debian
> 
> PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)"
> NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
> VERSION_ID="9"
> VERSION="9 (stretch)"
> VERSION_CODENAME=stretch
> ID=debian
> HOME_URL="https://www.debian.org/";
> SUPPORT_URL="https://www.debian.org/support";
> BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.debian.org/";
> 
> 
> 
> Ubuntu 16.04
> 
> NAME="Ubuntu"
> VERSION="16.04.6 LTS (Xenial Xerus)"
> ID=ubuntu
> ID_LIKE=debian
> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS"
> VERSION_ID="16.04"
> HOME_URL="http://www.ubuntu.com/";
> SUPPORT_URL="http://help.ubuntu.com/";
> BUG_REPORT_URL="http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/";
> VERSION_CODENAME=xenial
> UBUNTU_CODENAME=xenial
> 
> 
> 
> Ubuntu 18.04
> 
> NAME="Ubuntu"
> VERSION="18.04.4 LTS (Bionic Beaver)"
> ID=ubuntu
> ID_LIKE=debian
> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS"
> VERSION_ID="18.04"
> HOME_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/";
> SUPPORT_URL="https://help.ubuntu.com/";
> BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/";
> PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy-policy";
> VERSION_CODENAME=bionic
> UBUNTU_CODENAME=bionic
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Re: [DNG] Update successful but video card issue

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 11:03:24 Fri, 31 Jan 2020 + (UTC)
 R. G. Sidler scripsit:
> 
> Hi Tim, Ludovic and Andreas.
> 
> I installed only the amdgpu-driver. Since I always start with a naked base 
> install, I never care about blacklisting any drivers, because I just don't 
> install them 😉
> 
> @Andreas I decided to install a dedicated AMD workstation graphics card, 
> since I only do workstation stuff on my Thinkstation 😉
> 
> I prefer a very stable signal over high performance.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> 
> Roland
> 
> 

You checked, that the firmware is present?

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Re: [DNG] systemd breaking linuxcnc ...

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 29 Jan 12:46:35 -0500
 Steve Litt scripsit:
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 10:58:57 +
> Rainer Weikusat via Dng  wrote:
> 
> > Dimitris via Dng  writes:
> > > On 1/28/20 6:46 PM, Rainer Weikusat via Dng wrote:  
> > >> run ntpdate from  
> > >
> > > i've witnessed cases in the past where ntpd wasn't time-syncing
> > > correctly, and ntpdate saved the date/time.
> > > so, IMHO, there's nothing wrong with ntpdate.  
> > 
> > There's nothing wrong with ntpdate provided there's nothing wrong with
> > having the wallclock make arbitrary backwards or forward jumps in
> > unpredictable intervals, IOW, if the only user is a human who doesn't
> > really care, everything's fine.
> 
> Don't all time clients have an option to choose between all at once
> catch-up and slightly redefining a second so the catchup is more slow?
> Maybe ntpdate and that systemd thing also have such an option?

"ntpdate -B" should do it that way.

> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
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> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
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[DNG] systemd breaking linuxcnc ...

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Just for your amusement: systemd breaks linuxcnc on RPi4 - who's not into 
machining will most likely not see the fun part of it, but anyway :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDKaFJmB254

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Hyperbola is ditching the Linux kernel...

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 23 Jan 17:41:22 +0100
 al3xu5 / dotcommon scripsit:
> Hi
> 
> I would like to point out an announcement from the Hyperbola website, which I
> think may be interesting to report here mainly for the reasons they highlight
> about future choices (see in particular the part 'Reasons for this ...' at the
> end of the text ... ).
> 
> Regards

Not the first on the run: distrowatch has just switched to FreeBSD:

http://distrowatch.org/weekly.php?issue=current#sitenews

Nik



> 
> 
> https://www.hyperbola.info/news/announcing-hyperbolabsd-roadmap/
> 
> Due to the Linux kernel rapidly proceeding down an unstable path, we are
> planning on implementing a completely new OS derived from several BSD
> implementations .
> 
> This was not an easy decision to make, but we wish to use our time and
> resources to create a viable alternative to the current operating system
> trends which are actively seeking to undermine user choice and freedom .
> 
> This will not be a “distro” , but a hard fork of the OpenBSD kernel and
> userspace including new code written under GPLv3 and LGPLv3 to replace
> GPL-incompatible [0] parts and non-free ones [1].
> 
> Reasons for this include:
> 
> - Linux kernel forcing adaption of DRM, including HDCP [2].
> 
> - Linux kernel proposed usage of Rust [3] (which contains freedom flaws
> [4] and a centralized code repository that is more prone to cyber attack and
> generally requires internet access to use.) 
> 
> - Linux kernel being written without security and in mind. (KSPP is basically 
> a
>   dead project and Grsec is no longer free software) 
> 
> - Many GNU userspace and core utils are all forcing adaption of features
>   without build time options to disable them. E.g. (PulseAudio [5] / SystemD /
>   Rust [6] / Java [7] as forced dependencies)
> 
> [0] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses
> [1] https://notabug.org/jadedctrl/libertybsd-scripts-mirror/issues/5
> [2] https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/10084131/
> [3] https://lwn.net/Articles/797828/
> [4] https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:rusts_freedom_flaws
> [5] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659338
> [6]
> https://www.infoworld.com/article/3165424/mozilla-binds-firefoxs-fate-to-the-rust-language.html
> [7] https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=57217
> 
> 
> 



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