Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
o1bigtenor via Dng said on Thu, 2 Dec 2021 17:05:59 -0600 >On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 3:26 AM Adrian Zaugg > wrote: > >> In der Nachricht vom Monday, 29 November 2021 23:08:33 CET schrieb >> Adrian Zaugg: >> > Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email >> > system with SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, >> > BATV, DKIM, DNSSEC, TLS certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam >> > Measures (possibly greylisting, classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), >> > virtual domain handling, user auth >> from >> > a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the >> > mailstorage, >> asf. >> ...sieve and vacation might also be nice and a solution for an >> addressbook, >> both integrated into the webmail >> > > >Hm - - - - interesting ideas. >A couple votes for dovecot, lots of roll your own using selected from >the plethora of >options - - - but - - - - - . > >I had thought that when I asked about an email system that there might >be words >re: dovecot (which I did see - - thanks) but what about iRedMail, >Citadel, Cyrus >- - - - - or are those considered groupware only? > >I think I'm getting more confused rather than less!! It's not a simple subject, especially if you want a true smtp server in the mix. I don't run an smtp server, because most email clients have a built-in smtp on-ramp, and even if they don't, you could use a dedicated smtp on-ramp like nullmailer. If this paragraph is confusing, ignore it; it's not really important. The philosophy behind my suggestion is "do one thing and do it well". In most setups, the email client does tons of things: Grabs your email from your ISPs IMAP or POP3 server, lets you read mail, lets you write mail, stores your mail, folderizes your mail, lets you move mail between folders and organize your email, and filter your email. This is wonderful until it isn't. I found that out the hard way, in 2012, when Kmail became the crapitudinous Kmail2, and I became a refugee. Because Kmail had encompassed so much of my email activity in one place, it was almost irreplaceable. I think people on this list could relate, using a metaphor about a certain "we do it all for you" PID1. So in my setup, fetchmail grabs the email from my ISP, and hands it off to procmail, who filters the email and places each email in the proper folder of my Daily Driver Desktop's (DDD's) Dovecot IMAP server's maildir. My procmail IMAP serves out emails to whatever email client looks into it. I normally use Claws-mail, but can use Thunderbird or pretty much any other completely IMAP aware email client. Claws-Mail is pretty much just a window into my DDD's Dovecot IMAP server, plus it can let me write emails, and via a built in smtp-onramp, it can let me send them. It also provides a very nice environment to add, move and delete emails and folders. For various reasons I hope to move from Claws-mail to something else: Perhaps Mutt, perhaps Alpine. Mutt would be the ultimate do one thing and do it yourself because it doesn't have an smtp on-ramp but instead relies on qmail, postfix, sendmail and the like. And Mutt doesn't have its own editor, but instead puts you into your favorite editor. I don't think I can use Mutt to rearrange emails and folders, so I'll need to use IMAP commands for that; perhaps even write my own gui app to do that. Mutt is very hard to learn and very undiscoverable, but that's not why I haven't made the switch yet. Mutt doesn't seem to be able to discover all the folders in my DDD's IMAP server. Once I get past that, I'll probably switch to Mutt. So that's it. My setup is based on the "do one thing and do it well" philosophy, and is more email client agnostic than most other setups, so I'll never again get trapped by an email client going bad. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
We also use ispconfig (https://www.ispconfig.org/ispconfig/). There is a free version and a supported version, though it is all open source. We use this on multiple client sites and our hosting service. Highly recommended under most circumstances, though we do have some special purpose machines where we "roll our own." Rod On 12/2/21 5:16 PM, Curtis Maurand via Dng wrote: > I run ispconfig. uses postfix/dovecot/bind or powerdns. i host several > websites and email domains on beowulf. > > follow the perfect server debian instructions. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:06 PM, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 3:26 AM Adrian Zaugg >> mailto:devuan@mailgurgler.com>> wrote: >> >> In der Nachricht vom Monday, 29 November 2021 23:08:33 CET schrieb >> Adrian >> Zaugg: >> > Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email >> system with >> > SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, BATV, DKIM, >> DNSSEC, TLS >> > certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam Measures (possibly >> greylisting, >> > classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), virtual domain handling, user >> auth from >> > a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the >> mailstorage, asf. >> ...sieve and vacation might also be nice and a solution for an >> addressbook, >> both integrated into the webmail >> >> >> >> Hm - - - - interesting ideas. >> A couple votes for dovecot, lots of roll your own using selected from >> the plethora of >> options - - - but - - - - - . >> >> I had thought that when I asked about an email system that there might >> be words >> re: dovecot (which I did see - - thanks) but what about iRedMail, >> Citadel, Cyrus >> - - - - - or are those considered groupware only? >> >> I think I'm getting more confused rather than less!! >> >> TIA >> >> Regards >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Rod Rodolico Daily Data, Inc. POB 140465 Dallas TX 75214-0465 US https://dailydata.net 214.827.2170 ext 100 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
I run ispconfig. uses postfix/dovecot/bind or powerdns. i host several websites and email domains on beowulf. follow the perfect server debian instructions. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:06 PM, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 3:26 AM Adrian Zaugg >> wrote: >> In der Nachricht vom Monday, 29 November 2021 23:08:33 CET schrieb Adrian >> Zaugg: >> > Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email system with >> > SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, BATV, DKIM, DNSSEC, TLS >> > certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam Measures (possibly greylisting, >> > classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), virtual domain handling, user auth from >> > a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the mailstorage, asf. >> ...sieve and vacation might also be nice and a solution for an addressbook, >> both integrated into the webmail > > > Hm - - - - interesting ideas. > A couple votes for dovecot, lots of roll your own using selected from the > plethora of > options - - - but - - - - - . > > I had thought that when I asked about an email system that there might be > words > re: dovecot (which I did see - - thanks) but what about iRedMail, Citadel, > Cyrus > - - - - - or are those considered groupware only? > > I think I'm getting more confused rather than less!! > > TIA > > Regards > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 3:26 AM Adrian Zaugg wrote: > In der Nachricht vom Monday, 29 November 2021 23:08:33 CET schrieb Adrian > Zaugg: > > Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email system with > > SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, BATV, DKIM, DNSSEC, TLS > > certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam Measures (possibly greylisting, > > classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), virtual domain handling, user auth > from > > a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the mailstorage, > asf. > ...sieve and vacation might also be nice and a solution for an > addressbook, > both integrated into the webmail > Hm - - - - interesting ideas. A couple votes for dovecot, lots of roll your own using selected from the plethora of options - - - but - - - - - . I had thought that when I asked about an email system that there might be words re: dovecot (which I did see - - thanks) but what about iRedMail, Citadel, Cyrus - - - - - or are those considered groupware only? I think I'm getting more confused rather than less!! TIA Regards ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
In der Nachricht vom Monday, 29 November 2021 23:08:33 CET schrieb Adrian Zaugg: > Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email system with > SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, BATV, DKIM, DNSSEC, TLS > certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam Measures (possibly greylisting, > classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), virtual domain handling, user auth from > a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the mailstorage, asf. ...sieve and vacation might also be nice and a solution for an addressbook, both integrated into the webmail signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
Hi TIA In der Nachricht vom Saturday, 27 November 2021 16:17:45 CET steht: > that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for recommendations > on what and how to setup an email system. The why you're using what you are > is vitally important for me (as are my security and privacy). Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email system with SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, BATV, DKIM, DNSSEC, TLS certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam Measures (possibly greylisting, classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), virtual domain handling, user auth from a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the mailstorage, asf. is rather complex and time consuming. But it can be fun nevertheless... :-) Regards, Adrian. PS: I'm using exim/dovecot/greylistd/spamassassin/pyzor/razor/srsd/apache/ roundcube/mysql/? on Devuan. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
Hi, o1bigtenor via Dng writes: > Greetings > > Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. > Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there are > a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything working well. > > A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not all > that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for recommendations > on what and how to setup an email system. The why you're using what you are > is vitally important for me (as are my security and privacy). Since you mention webmail and claws, I assume you are talking about a mail client setup. Here's what I use: - dma to get mail off my laptop to a smarthost (i.e. my ISP) and handle delivery of local mail (i.e. mail addressed to user accounts on the laptop, think "root" for one). It doesn't handle incoming mail. It doesn't even listen to any ports, SMTP or otherwise. Before dma, I quite happily used postfix but since I didn't need a full-blow mailserver on my laptop I looked for something smaller. - getmail6 to get mail from my ISP onto my laptop. This also grabs the mail from a mail account my alma mater provides. I've configured it so that mail older than a certain number of days is deleted on the ISP and my alma mater's account. Before getmail, I quite happily used fetchmail but negative comments about its error handling/security made me switch. - maildrop to handle stuffing incoming mail into the right Maildir. My getmail configuration uses `MDA_external` type delivery to it. The ~/.mailfilter file control what goes where. Before maildrop, I quite happily used procmail but I thought writing recipes was overly complicated. Not sure maildrop is any better in that respect though. - mu4e to read and compose mail from within Emacs. It intergrates with mu, which handles indexing and searching. Before mu4e, I quite happily used gnus but its org-mode integration left to be desired. To be explicit, moving messages between folders would break links in my org-mode files. mu4e doesn't. - a custom "localdrop" script to pass mail from /var/mail/$LOGNAME to maildrop. Nothing too complicated, if you ignore the locking ;-) test -s /var/mail/$LOGNAME \ && lockmail /var/mail/$LOGNAME \ && /bin/sh -c "cat /var/mail/$LOGNAME | reformail -f0 -s maildrop && >/var/mail/$LOGNAME" Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
On 27-11-2021 16:17, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Greetings Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there are a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything working well. A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not all that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for recommendations on what and how to setup an email system. The why you're using what you are is vitally important for me (as are my security and privacy). Please TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng If you want a fast way to setup a mailserver including spam and viruscontrol, webmail and webadmin and much much more, I would take a look at https://hub.docker.com/r/mailserver2/mailserver This is a all-round mailserver in a docker container(s) which is relative easy to setup. Far more easy then doing it by hand and I have done both so I can tell from experience. Full source code is available at github. Grtz Nick ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
> Greetings > > Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. > Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there are > a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything working well. > > A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not all > that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for recommendations > on what and how to setup an email system. The why you're using what you are > is vitally important for me (as are my security and privacy). Hi I am assuming you are asking how to set up your own complete mail infrastructure. If so: Congratulations - I think you are doing the *right* thing. Not only for yourself, but for the internet as a whole. The concentration of email servers under the control of a few big corporations is a singularly bad thing. The core of internet email is the SMTP server or MTA. There are a number of implementations including postfix, sendmail, exim and qmail - amongst others. I think the most important step in hosting your own email infrastructure is to start understanding one of them - installing one of them on a spare computer (or container, or hosted system) would be a good start. If you don't know which MTA to pick, I'd say try postfix or exim (whatever your distribution defaults to). And if you want to get going quickly, enable local delivery with a mail client you can run via ssh such as alpine, mutt or one of several emacs extensions (the latter only if you use emacs). There are other parts to hosting your own email (DNS, spam mitigation, getting mail to your remote email client, dealing with difficult remote servers). Each of these is its own topic. These topics can be large, but they can be understood - do not believe the naysayers who claim it is all too complex. They might value convenience over liberty, but not everybody has to be that shortsighted. regards marc ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 09:17:45 -0600 o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. > Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - > there are a lot of parts that have to work together to have > everything working well. > > A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not > all that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for > recommendations on what and how to setup an email system. The why > you're using what you are is vitally important for me (as are my > security and privacy). > > Please > > TIA Two questions; what do you want to do with this system and whom do you expect to receive emails from. I've been using sendmail for over two decades+ siunce i found the program SMTP didn't have capacity to do filtering on incoming messages. I've stuck with it as it core package everywhere/on debian/on devuan. FWIw, Procmail wasnt there and didn't offer anything of benefit.YMMV. What I've basically always used is a basic standalone basic PC. It s easiest to get a domain and dns service for the domain, with MX record. I use portfowarding of 25 to the mazil-server on the router. Recommended is a firewall on the mail-server, or perhaps a better router firewall. My router gives priority on portforwarding over IP blocking, hence the need for firewall on the mail-server. there is class of spammer(growing) that door knocks and then chucks without waiting. It isn't a major problem for me atm, but being able to block cuts down network traffic. To me, setup of sendmail was just changing the receiving domain in the sendmail.mc file, which is very easy and getting the filtering rules set. then there is a bit of tuning to catch another class of spammers in the 'access' file. I use zen.spamhaus.org(catches ~90%) and bl.spamcop.net(catches ~5%) to filter all incoming mail. that is in the sendamil config file and the block certain domains ion the sendmail access file. YMMV, but google, gmail, hotmail, live, look, yahoo, etc jst get a "404 Send post for whitelisting". Basically any business that allows anyone to sign up for immediate access and send bulk spam usually gains an entry, especially if they do not respond to spam reports. Warning; there are block lists and there are block list. Before you signup for using any block list, make sure you understand what type of user/busines gets on it and there is a clear and actionable method for getting off it. there are some people/business that pedal block lists by scrapping other lists and then set stuff in stone. Sendmail also has an alias which you can use widely. create an alias entry for each and every forum/lists/shop/etc you want to RECEIVE email from. I currently have ~950 from the years. It is so easy to just block spam/viri/phishing/hack/etc by just #blocking/dropping the alias entry than getting entry off list. Hint use shortshopnamey...@yourdomain.com. The difficulty with aiias file is you can not send mail from the address. I use a pop server program on the mail-server to provide user access to receive email from the mail-server. IMO LDAP doesn't have clear concise setup instructions and seem way over top for a simple backup system. Which users can send & receive emails is defined on the mail-server access files. with the addition of receive only for alias file entry. Mine is only a simple domain server. What I do not do, or cater for are a multitude of users or multiple domains. YMMV. My early work amongst other stuff, was wrangling various proprietary GUI controlled mail servers before Linux and hence I love command line control and sendmail. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 05:12:59AM +1000, onefang wrote: > If you mean email server as well as client, on the server side I picked > courier, coz it supplise most of the bits, which all work well together. > Every other email server solution means gleuing together various bits > from different developers. If you want to setup an e-mail server, be prepared to read documentation carefully, and do lots of web searching. With antispam measures like spf and dkim, the process is more complicated than when I started running my own server in 2002. I started out with qmail, and am on postfix for over ten years now. I chose postfix, because I find it easy to configure, feature rich, and because it supports sendmail milters. I did look at the courier package, but seem to vaguely recall it didn't provide all the features I wanted. I however use courier imap/pop3, and sqwebmail integrated with postfix. If all you're wanting is to move from webmail to an e-mail client, then I use fetchmail to grab mail from my server, standard mutt to read it in a text console, and postfix configured to send outgoing mail to my server as smarthost. I use those three packages because they work for me, and I haven't had the need to look for something else. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
On 2021-11-27 09:17:45, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >Greetings >Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. >Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there are >a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything working >well. If you mean email server as well as client, on the server side I picked courier, coz it supplise most of the bits, which all work well together. Every other email server solution means gleuing together various bits from different developers. I use neomutt for my client, and fetchmail to gather email from all over. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
o1bigtenor via Dng said on Sat, 27 Nov 2021 09:17:45 -0600 >Greetings > >Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. >Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there >are a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything >working well. > >A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not all >that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for >recommendations on what and how to setup an email system. The why >you're using what you are is vitally important for me (as are my >security and privacy). If you mean an SMTP server, I don't know. If you mean a setup to receive and send email, carefully read the following URL: http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm Especially important is the block diagram labeled "Desktop Email Architecture: Procmail Handles Filters, Dovecot Handles Folders" Research the workings of all those blocks on the diagram. Setting up a system like this is not easy, but it makes your future life easy: * Dovecot frees your email client from storing messages. * Which means you can change email clients at will. * Dovecot can handle hundreds of thousands, probably millions of msgs. * Procmail filtering frees your email client from filtering. * Which means you can change email clients at will. * Fetchmail is an ancient program that "just works every time." - If you want a more modern one, maybe getmail. - Fetchmail's always worked for me. * Backing up your Dovecot IMAP server is just a simple dir tree backup. * To get expert help, Dovecot and Claws-Mail have mailing lists. Procmail and Fetchmail have man pages and documentation all over the web. * I've been using this setup for well over six years, and it's never screwed up on me, except once after a major Dovecot upgrade, and that was solved quickly using advice from the Dovecot mailing list. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Wanting to set up an email system
Greetings Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail. Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there are a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything working well. A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not all that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for recommendations on what and how to setup an email system. The why you're using what you are is vitally important for me (as are my security and privacy). Please TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
