Quoting Hendrik Boom:
> Given the mix, I'd prefer to hear him out rather than ban him.
You-plural should _most_ certainly ban me if Dng cannot accomodate
occasional polite mocking of what I see as ideological ranting and
tunnel vision that notably fails to get anything done.
I couldn't help not
On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 02:01:31PM +0200, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
> On 29-07-16 21:39, Jaromil wrote:
> >
> >I think most people clashing with Rick here may want to stop for a
> >moment and realise Devuan does not need fan-boys, converted people or
> >preachers as much as critical and co
On 29-07-16 21:39, Jaromil wrote:
I think most people clashing with Rick here may want to stop for a
moment and realise Devuan does not need fan-boys, converted people or
preachers as much as critical and constructive minds that go across
all what we are doing and, besides encouraging it, also e
Simon Hobson writes:
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
>> I have a better question: Is there something about empiricism that many
>> people on this mailing list cannot cope with?
>>
>> Back when I had newly joined this mailing list and all of these idle
>> allegations and rhetorical questions started being
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> First of all, if my words mean nothing to you, you should ignore
> them.
OK, ignoring the rest.
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On 07/30/2016 03:55 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
Isn't that what's being discussed? When did I say the things you
said were opposition for the Devuan Project?
'disagree with a fork of Debian'.
I've made clear what I said, and what it meant and didn't mean.
Yo
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> Isn't that what's being discussed? When did I say the things you
> said were opposition for the Devuan Project?
'disagree with a fork of Debian'.
I've made clear what I said, and what it meant and didn't mean.
You've attempted to distort that into an
On 07/30/2016 02:57 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
Which is why it could be construed that you disagree with a fork of
Debian - a for of Debian as in "A fork of Debian that could be said
to have been started because the default init system in Debian
became systemd
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> Which is why it could be construed that you disagree with a fork of
> Debian - a for of Debian as in "A fork of Debian that could be said
> to have been started because the default init system in Debian
> became systemd." - that fork of Debian - not a the
On 07/30/2016 04:18 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
In all fairness to Rick, he was making his statements on SVLUG, and
then, on DNG, *I* referenced the SVLUG archive of the SVLUG discussion,
and only then did he repeat his assertions here.
And my assertio
Quoting Jaromil (jaro...@dyne.org):
[much snipped]
Jaromil, you are a prince.
Yes, I am sarcastic and inclined to mock when I think something is
fanatical and/or purblind. I am often wrong, and all too often woefully
undercaffeinated. I also have a nasty habit of backing people into
corners,
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> > If you really think Devuan is wrong, then flight it harder.
>
> Um, excuse me, but I like Devuan. I look forward to using what it
> produces, either by borrowing packages from its repos or by running it.
> Th
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> In all fairness to Rick, he was making his statements on SVLUG, and
> then, on DNG, *I* referenced the SVLUG archive of the SVLUG discussion,
> and only then did he repeat his assertions here.
And my assertions stated that I like Devuan and apprec
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> Rick, that's exactly what I was talking about. You might be well
> intentioned, but in so many words you are saying that you disagree
> with a fork of Debian.
Um, excuse me, but I didn't say that.
> If you really think Devuan is wrong, then flight it ha
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
> >Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> >
> >>I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
> >>packages?
>
> >One of my worst and most annoying
On 07/29/2016 06:27 PM, Simon Hobson wrote:
I wrote:
... and in a place where "the IT world starts and ends with Windows" (or more
or less did when I started here) that's not a bad result.
And bear in mind that when I started here and pointed out that as a Mac user, half of our
internal sys
I wrote:
> ... and in a place where "the IT world starts and ends with Windows" (or more
> or less did when I started here) that's not a bad result.
And bear in mind that when I started here and pointed out that as a Mac user,
half of our internal systems didn't work properly* - the lead develo
info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
>> Great, so answer me a question: How are you getting a system without
>> libsystemd0 today?
> Waiting for Devuan or using something else then Linux as i told in the part
> of my message you did not quote.
This. Plus in the meantime, using a systemd-free s
On 07/29/2016 01:28 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:49:32 +0900
Simon Walter wrote:
On 07/29/2016 10:00 AM, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
If you can suggest an additional method, I'll be glad to amend my
list of suggestions. Otherwise, I
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:49:32 +0900
Simon Walter wrote:
> On 07/29/2016 10:00 AM, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
> > On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
> >> If you can suggest an additional method, I'll be glad to amend my
> >> list of suggestions. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point i
On 07/29/2016 10:00 AM, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
If you can suggest an additional method, I'll be glad to amend my list
of suggestions. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is.
Your point is quite clear: you do not want a fork of debian and that
On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
packages?
One of my worst and most annoying habits is to give reasoned and useful
answers to rhetorical questions.
Hardly, y
Quoting Simon Hobson (si...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do
> anything" then that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once
> anything calls one of it's functions, then that library can do lots of
> stuff.
On the other hand, when the perso
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> > Who's the Tory of the Blind Man and the Elephant? Theresa May? ;->
Quoted to remind people that I never learned who this mysterious
Conservative Party MP is. Curious Minds Want to Know.[tm]
> Which brings us full circle. Simon doesn't want t
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
> packages?
One of my worst and most annoying habits is to give reasoned and useful
answers to rhetorical questions. So:
You might decide to rebuild a local pac
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Though I suspect no one is going to give you the car you'd like, the
> devuan developers are solving _his_ problems for him. The fork is
> going to help some people. I suspect there are enough of these people
> to make the fork worthwhile. Of
Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> A library can do anything the executable can.
Which is what I thought.
So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do anything" then
that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once anything calls one of it's
functions, then that library can do lot
On 2016-07-28 10:16, Steve Litt wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 00:48:12 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the
> ClamAV packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on
> libsystemd0. Using dpkg --f
On 28-07-16 11:33, Rick Moen wrote:
'Building custom packages' is a rather inventively melodramatic
exaggeration of auto-rebuilding a .deb with one spurious lib dependency
disabled, and the 'live grenade' imagery in that specific context is
patently ridiculous.
But hey, if you'd rather sit on y
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 02:33:31AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
>
> But I'm getting the vibes that you are uninterested in 'overcoming
> dependency obstacles' through local system administration. You'd rather
> that someone else solves your problem.
>
> I understand. I'd like someone else to solve
Steve Litt wrote:
> Which brings us full circle. Simon doesn't want to keep playing these
> games, wondering what kind of workaround he'll need next, as Lennart
> decides to subsume yet another Linux functionality, or Debian's "DDs"
> make yet another poor decision on dependencies. So he chose to
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 00:48:12 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
>
> > I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the
> > ClamAV packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on
> > libsystemd0. Using dpkg --force-depends to install only tha
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> OK, to start with, "sysadmin" is only a small part of ${dayjob} - so
> many things which full time admins may consider "simple" are not thing
> that I've ever had the time (and generally need) to deal with. I've
> never claimed to be a particularly
On 07/28/2016 05:50 PM, Simon Hobson wrote:
...
but personally I consider it unethical to leave booby traps in systems for
anyone that comes along to manage it after me.
...
> That, for the most part, is why I've gone to great lengths to only
use distro packaged software on the systems - even
Rick Moen wrote:
> If the above test works, and I strongly suspect it would, then it's
> probably not hard to come up with smoother and more automatable ways.
> However, if I _did_ need package clamav (which I don't), _and_ if I were
> feeling paranoid about libsystemd0 (which I don't), then I'd
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the ClamAV
> packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on libsystemd0. Using
> dpkg --force-depends to install only that package without having
> libsystemd0 installed results in ...
Rick Moen wrote:
> I have a better question: Is there something about empiricism that many
> people on this mailing list cannot cope with?
>
> Back when I had newly joined this mailing list and all of these idle
> allegations and rhetorical questions started being posted, I decided to
> do that
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 16:23:46 -0700, Rick wrote in message
<20160727232346.gh10...@linuxmafia.com>:
> Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):
>
> > ..re-running your tests now, do you still get the same results
> > now, as back then when you first checked?
>
>
> root@mini:/tmp# cd /lib/x86_6
Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):
> ..re-running your tests now, do you still get the same results
> now, as back then when you first checked?
root@mini:/tmp# cd /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
root@mini:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu# chmod 000 libsystemd.so.0.3.1
root@mini:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu# rc-se
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 13:17:40 -0700, Rick wrote in message
<20160727201740.gf10...@linuxmafia.com>:
> Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
>
> > And won't you then find that all those packages with gratuitous
> > libsystemd0 dependencies will stop working ?
>
> I have a better question
On 27/07/16 21:21, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
these are obviously not identical: The subjects differ.
I repeat: I really did not understand what you were saying, and I still
don't. Therefore, I summarised my best guess, apologised for probably
being de
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> these are obviously not identical: The subjects differ.
I repeat: I really did not understand what you were saying, and I still
don't. Therefore, I summarised my best guess, apologised for probably
being dense and overly fond of the specific a
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> And won't you then find that all those packages with gratuitous
> libsystemd0 dependencies will stop working ?
I have a better question: Is there something about empiricism that many
people on this mailing list cannot cope with?
Back when I had n
Hendrik Boom writes:
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:34:55AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
>> By the way, what specifically does 'entangle it with unwanted
>> systemd-isms' actually _mean_, and what does that have to do with
>> whatever-the-heck-it-was that Rainier said? Once again, it seems to me,
>> the
Quoting dev (devua...@gmail.com):
> On systems where security and stability are important, needless
> dependencies and pointless software expose a broader attack surface.
Generically, yes.
I definitely always appreciate having less unwanted code on my system,
particularly code that ever runs wit
Rick Moen wrote:
> ... then I'll be replacing libsystemd0 with an 'equivs'
> recipe about two minutes later.
And won't you then find that all those packages with gratuitous libsystemd0
dependencies will stop working ?
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On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:34:55AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
>
> By the way, what specifically does 'entangle it with unwanted
> systemd-isms' actually _mean_, and what does that have to do with
> whatever-the-heck-it-was that Rainier said? Once again, it seems to me,
> there's vagueness in unfortu
Hendrik Boom writes:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:01:04AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
>> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>> > Rick Moen writes:
>> > > Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>> > >
>> > >> To re-iterate this:
>> > >
>> > > [more very strangely worded, dif
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Once again, it is a matter of trust, not technical content. Do you
> trust the maintainers of libsystemd0 not to entangle it with unwanted
> systemd-isms? You evidently do. Rainer does not.
I'm certainly willing to consider the possibility tha
On 07/26/2016 12:37 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
It _was_ indeed an unnecessary build dependency.
Precisely my point. A point which could be made about systemd in
general: A lot of unnecessary.
agree that it's 'problematic' in the sense that I'd rather not have it
on my systems, but it's not of
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:01:04AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
> > Rick Moen writes:
> > > Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> > >
> > >> To re-iterate this:
> > >
> > > [more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemi
Le 26/07/2016 13:28, fsmithred a écrit :
On 07/25/2016 06:09 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:
Le 25/07/2016 23:35, fsmithred a écrit :
Either way, it
looks like libsystemd is passively providing code for something else to
use.
Calling a function does not mean that this function passively provides
c
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 11:35:25 -0400
Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 07:58:19AM -0500, dev wrote:
>
> > Systemd isn't going to stop at just init. There are far to many
> > opportunities to embrace, extend and extinguish entire
> > distributions.
>
> A point of grammar: Wrong verb
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 07:58:19AM -0500, dev wrote:
> Systemd isn't going to stop at just init. There are far to many
> opportunities to embrace, extend and extinguish entire distributions.
A point of grammar: Wrong verb tense.
Systemd hasn't stopped at just init,
-- hendrik
__
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> Rick Moen writes:
> > Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> >
> >> To re-iterate this:
> >
> > [more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
> > that library libsystemd0 can be used to insert 'calls' in
Quoting dev (devua...@gmail.com):
> On 07/26/2016 04:26 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
>
> >libsystemd0's status as a bundle of interface code that does nothing in
> >the absence of systemd is not because it's a library -- obviously -- but
> >rather because all it _contains_ is interface code that does noth
Didier Kryn writes:
> Le 25/07/2016 23:35, fsmithred a écrit :
>> Either way, it
>> looks like libsystemd is passively providing code for something else to
>> use.
> Calling a function does not mean that this function passively
> provides code to the caller.
But the library does that (or at l
dev wrote:
<<
It seems I cannot have a functioning Apache system on Debian 8 without
installing at least some minimal facet of systemd and that's
problematic if not for any other reason than simply being an
unnecesary dependency. What this all really illustrates is the
insidious nature of systemd a
On 07/26/2016 09:58 PM, dev wrote:
On 07/26/2016 04:26 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
libsystemd0's status as a bundle of interface code that does nothing in
the absence of systemd is not because it's a library -- obviously -- but
rather because all it _contains_ is interface code that does nothing in
On 07/26/2016 04:26 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
libsystemd0's status as a bundle of interface code that does nothing in
the absence of systemd is not because it's a library -- obviously -- but
rather because all it _contains_ is interface code that does nothing in
the absence of systemd
Well now, i
On 07/25/2016 06:09 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 25/07/2016 23:35, fsmithred a écrit :
>> Either way, it
>> looks like libsystemd is passively providing code for something else to
>> use.
> Calling a function does not mean that this function passively provides
> code to the caller. What happens
Rick Moen writes:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
>> To re-iterate this:
>
> [more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
> that library libsystemd0 can be used to insert 'calls' into unrelated
> applications -- which assertion in my view does no
On 07/25/2016 05:57 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> If you ever feel like trying a less-brittle Desktop Environment ('DE'),
> consider LXQt or Enlightenment. (A more-radical step would be no DE at
> all, which is my personal preference. To me, a DE is a goulash of apps I
> want with ones I don't, so I se
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> And you've gone on to keep extrapolating that "that's all a library does".
No, that's all that _this_ library does. And, no, I did not
'extrapolate' anything. If you think so, you didn't read what I wrote
correctly, and ought to fix that.
libsys
Rick Moen wrote:
>> OK, that's what I thought, which is at odds with some comments that have
>> been made.
>
> Well, if you're referring to 'comments that have been made' about
> libsystemd0, the more useful (IMO) comments characterised what is
> actually present in that library, that it contai
Le 25/07/2016 23:35, fsmithred a écrit :
Either way, it
looks like libsystemd is passively providing code for something else to
use.
Calling a function does not mean that this function passively
provides code to the caller. What happens is (simplified) the program
counter (the address from
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Yeah, that was me, and it was based on partially incorrect testing. I set
> the permissions to 000 on the wrong target. The test with the dummy
> libsystemd0 package worked great to fulfill the package dependency and
> allowed me to install gvfs, but gvfs
On 07/25/2016 01:35 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
>
>> Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
>
> Well, if you want to learn the subject, there's an irreducible minimum
> of complexity, you know, but it was mostly a citation I gave a
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
Well, if you want to learn the subject, there's an irreducible minimum
of complexity, you know, but it was mostly a citation I gave as an
accuracy cross-check on my ultra-quick extempor
Le 25/07/2016 16:26, Simon Hobson a écrit :
I don't think even Poettering cold get away with deprecating the existing
syslog call - force EVERY binary to change to not use syslog ?
I bet this is already done. I mean there's no need to use another
API than syslog. There are already several
To expand a bit on what I wrote earlier - now it's finally condensed into
something resembling a coherent thought.
Suppose, with SystemD running they decided to break normal syslog calls. Ie,
they made it so that a program could not call syslog, but instead had to use a
SystemD call. Given the
Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> OK, so what makes libsystemd different from libc, which comes from the same
>> source? libc is stored in the same directory on the same debian servers...
>
> It is a matter of trust, not of what is technically feasible.
Exactly
> Does one trust the libc developers more t
On 25-07-16 15:22, Hendrik Boom wrote:
It is a matter of trust, not of what is technically feasible. Does one
trust the libc developers more than the libsystemd developers?
-- hendrik
___
That question is not very hard to answer.
Grtz.
Nick
__
Le 25/07/2016 15:17, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit :
OK, so what makes libsystemd different from libc, which comes from the
same source?
Not the same source: libc comes from GNU (and there are alternatives),
while libsystemd comes from Lennart and the Red Hats.
Didier
__
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 02:17:01PM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Hendrik Boom writes:
> >Just linking isn't enough, unless there's something about the loading
> >process that I don't know. (Maybe C++ has something special for module
> >initialization?)
>
> No, nothing that special.
>
> >But i
Hendrik Boom writes:
Just linking isn't enough, unless there's something about the loading
process that I don't know. (Maybe C++ has something special for module
initialization?)
No, nothing that special.
But if an application is linked with libsystemd, it is likely to call
one of the libsy
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:37:12AM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Hi Rainer,
>
> could you describe how this could be used to, say, make all applications
> that link with libsystemd print "Hello world!" in addition to their normal
> function?
Just linking isn't enough, unless there's something
Relax ;) Devuan pulls libc from debian. The next version of libsystemd
could do anything, but some of the same people can put the same code in
debian's libc. And libc is a great deal more difficult to audit, too.
For the record, I think getting rid of libsystemd is a good thing. It's
tidy. Bug
Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> A library can do anything the executable can.
Which is what I thought.
So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do anything" then
that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once anything calls one of it's
functions, then that library can do lot
Simon Hobson writes:
Yes, the latter wouldn't make much sense, but it's possible ?
It's possible. Simplfying a little, an executable on linux is just a shared
library that contains a function called main() (yes I know I'm simplifying,
PLEASE let's not argue these details). A library can do an
Rick Moen wrote:
>> With a lib, is there any code or is it *JUST* a set of symbols ?
> This is a pretty good introduction to how libraries work and what they
> can contain:
> http://www.skyfree.org/linux/references/ELF_Format.pdf
Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
A library is code, data, fixups (I think that's the wrong word, sorry) and
a little bit of red tape for the file format.
Fixups are changes to be made at runtime by the dynamic linker in order to
make sure the code and calls work correctly at the runtime-assigned
address(es). It may include lo
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I think what he means, is that it allows devs/packagers to insert
> these calls and still have something that runs when systemd itself
> isn't installed. Not that the lib itself installs such calls.
First, thanks. (I seriously wasn't trying to ign
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
>> To re-iterate this:
>
> [more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
> that library libsystemd0 can be used to insert 'calls' into unrelated
> applications -- which assertion in my view does
Hi Rainer,
could you describe how this could be used to, say, make all applications
that link with libsystemd print "Hello world!" in addition to their normal
function?
Arnt
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Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> To re-iterate this:
[more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
that library libsystemd0 can be used to insert 'calls' into unrelated
applications -- which assertion in my view does not seem correct, if I
am parsin
Rick Moen writes:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
>> I didn't expect you to stop the attempt to get a 'religious angle' into
>> this just because I pointed out that your interpretation was completely
>> wrong.
>
> I honestly don't understand the hostility, Rainier:
To re-ite
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> I didn't expect you to stop the attempt to get a 'religious angle' into
> this just because I pointed out that your interpretation was completely
> wrong.
I honestly don't understand the hostility, Rainier: It seems like
anything I say you int
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Here, AFAIU, systemd is different, it requires daemons to
> communicate with it using its own library, so that it forces itself
> into all the daemons.
I am reasonably confident that systemd in its role as an init can start
and stop services that have no dep
Rick Moen writes:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
>> That's neither 'abstract' nor 'teleological' as you yourself nicely
>> demonstrated by immediately coming up with an equivalent but different
>> term after reinterpreting my statement in a way it clearly wasn't meant
>> to
Le 24/07/2016 23:55, Rick Moen a écrit :
The several init systems I've used such as SysVInit, OpenRC, and runit
do not require that 'applications' (services) talk to the init system using
glue libraries. In fact, they don't need to talk to the init system at
all, unless I'm misremembering someth
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Would it make any sense to have systemd with no application
> talking to it?
Someone (not me, but someone) might want it as an init system. ;->
(Infamously, the thing aspires to be many more things, but somewhere
inside that mess there _is_ an init system:
Le 24/07/2016 23:29, Rick Moen a écrit :
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
Don't remember which package depends on some libkerberos5.
Assuming it's openssh or some component of pam.
Package openssh-client.
$ ldd $(which ssh)
linux-gate.so.1 => (0xb76ec000)
libresolv.so
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Don't remember which package depends on some libkerberos5.
> Assuming it's openssh or some component of pam.
Package openssh-client.
$ ldd $(which ssh)
linux-gate.so.1 => (0xb76ec000)
libresolv.so.2 => /lib/i686/cmov/libresolv.so.2 (0xb767
Le 24/07/2016 22:26, Rick Moen a écrit :
Personally, I'm aiming to get the lib off my systems as somewhere in my
long priority list -- but I don't see it as being substantially worse in
the meantime than the Kerberos5 libraries also hauled in by overbroad
package dependencies but likewise doing n
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> That's neither 'abstract' nor 'teleological' as you yourself nicely
> demonstrated by immediately coming up with an equivalent but different
> term after reinterpreting my statement in a way it clearly wasn't meant
> to be understood by exploitin
Rick Moen writes:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
>> The purpose of libsystemd0 is to enable packages whose code has been
>> 'enhanced' with spurious systemd depedencies to work on systemd-less
>> systems. That's absolutely not harmless.
>
> Your implied concept of 'purpose'
Le 18/07/2016 14:54, fsmithred a écrit :
With a dummy equivs libsystemd0, I get a trash icon that works, but the
removable drives don't show up on the desktop. When I remove the dummy
package and install the real libsystemd0, removables show up and
mount/eject work as expected.
I would cons
On 07/16/2016 05:12 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
> You probably wouldn't even like removing libsystemd0 entirely and
> replacing it with an 'equivs' recipe, which could also be done if one
> really, really, really were concerned.
>
> But, for those interested in that technique, see: 'How To Satisfy
> Deb
Quoting Dragan FOSS (dragan.f...@gmx.com):
> >The purpose of libsystemd0 is to enable packages whose code has been
> >'enhanced' with spurious systemd depedencies to work on systemd-less
> >systems. That's absolutely not harmless.
>
> So, why not remove it? ;>
> TRIOS == excellence in simplicity
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