Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-05-01 Thread Matthias Kirschner
hi Szabolcs, * Szabolcs Nagy nszabo...@gmail.com [2009-04-29 13:37:17 +0200]: On 4/28/09, Matthias Kirschner m...@fsfe.org wrote: I am very interested in that list. Can you please sent it to me? cad softwares (and many related formats are closed as well) Was already on my list. fpga

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-05-01 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 03:44:46PM +0200, Matthias Kirschner wrote: hi Szabolcs, * Szabolcs Nagy nszabo...@gmail.com [2009-04-29 13:37:17 +0200]: On 4/28/09, Matthias Kirschner m...@fsfe.org wrote: I am very interested in that list. Can you please sent it to me? cad softwares

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Preben Randhol
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:41:48 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: Are there any BSD-style licensed equivalents? Why do you need that? You could also have a look at: http://www.sagemath.org/index.html -- Preben

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 06:52:46AM +0100, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: On 4/28/09, Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: Are there any BSD-style licensed equivalents? scipy.org And use Ipython!

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Preben Randhol
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:25:55 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: I like free software. But not GPL?

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:35:12AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:25:55 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: I like free software. But not GPL? It's just another lock in which is getting too big.

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Matthias Kirschner
Hi yiyus, * yy yiyu@gmail.com [2009-04-28 00:03:27 +0200]: But it is not always possible. I can give you a (quite long) list of software that doesn't have a free equivalent. I am very interested in that list. Can you please sent it to me? Thanks, Matthias

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Preben Randhol
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:35 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:35:12AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:25:55 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: I like free software. But not GPL? It's just another

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:58:23PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:35 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:35:12AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:25:55 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Szabolcs Nagy
I like free software. But not GPL? It's just another lock in which is getting too big. Sure, if you want to make proprietary software... If you want to be free from wacko organisations. this fruitful discussion shall end here

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 01:05:40PM +0200, Martin Oppegaard wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:58:23PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:35 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:35:12AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 01:37:17PM +0200, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: On 4/28/09, Matthias Kirschner m...@fsfe.org wrote: I am very interested in that list. Can you please sent it to me? cad softwares (and many related formats are closed as well) fpga tool chain Well, they are not superior

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 02:08:20PM +0200, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 01:05:40PM +0200, Martin Oppegaard wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:58:23PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:35 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote:

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Enno Boland (Gottox)
2009/4/29 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 02:08:20PM +0200, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 01:05:40PM +0200, Martin Oppegaard wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:58:23PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:35 +0200

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Matthias-Christian Ott o...@mirix.org wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 01:37:17PM +0200, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: cad softwares (and many related formats are closed as well) Well, they are not superior or unique. Their formats are just proprietary and there's no Free

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Marc Andre Tanner
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 04:07:55PM +0200, pancake wrote: If we just implement this stuff into separated .c or .h files, so everybody can still use the basic x11 stuff, or just use cairo/pango or..maybe someone would like to use it on w32 or osx, so, these guys will just have to implement

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-29 Thread Marc Andre Tanner
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:54:35PM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: Further more, I want to say, that there are more important things to focus on, instead of trying to improve (or dis-improve) dwm. `st' is the best example, of course. Amen to that! It would be nice to see some progress on the st

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Anselm R Garbe
Ok, thanks again for continuing the discussion. My conclusion is as follows: 1) dwm will be slightly redesigned, code-wise. I consider having a less suckish font and drawing abstraction in order to be implemented in different ways (which will also be used by st and dmenu). Officially there will

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Anselm R Garbe
2009/4/28 pmarin pacog...@gmail.com: Try to make the new dependencies optionals. About the broken non-free apps, is not dwm's problem and one solution can be to use a qemu instance with another WM and connect to the host Xwindows server. That won't be a really good solution, the better

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread pmarin
Try to make the new dependencies optionals. About the broken non-free apps, is not dwm's problem and one solution can be to use a qemu instance with another WM and connect to the host Xwindows server. On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, thanks again for

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Christian Garbs
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:19:05AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: One improvement I just remembered (unless I really have missed an option) would be to add invisible typing to dmenu. Useful if you want to type a password. Set -nb to -nf :-) Regards Christian --

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Ross Mohn
Jeremy Jay wrote: Don't be a bigot, it just makes you look like a moron too. Free Software is about choice, forcing people to use an app just because you use it is pretty stupid and annoying and just gives people a negative association with it. Let people make their own choices. Last I checked

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Preben Randhol
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:01:20 -0400 Ross Mohn rpm...@waxandwane.org wrote: Or maybe they're getting a kick back? -RPM Bullshit! Such slander doe not serve Open Source! The reason for choosing commercial packages is because they have done the job. It is fine to choose an open source alternative,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Preben Randhol
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:00:07 +0200 Preben Randhol rand...@pvv.org wrote: That said, in most cases there is now no reason no to choose Matlab over Octave. EDIT That said, in most cases there is now no reason to choose Matlab over Octave. /EDIT

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:03:47PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:00:07 +0200 Preben Randhol rand...@pvv.org wrote: That said, in most cases there is now no reason no to choose Matlab over Octave. EDIT That said, in most cases there is now no reason to choose

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-28 Thread Szabolcs Nagy
On 4/28/09, Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: Are there any BSD-style licensed equivalents? scipy.org

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Anselm R Garbe
Thanks for all the valueable input so far in this thread. I think here are the action points: 1) I plan to separate the bar stuff code-wise into two portions -- the tag bar with tags and layout info, and the title/status bar, but things will stay as they are from a user perspective, it's just

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Preben Randhol
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:23:50 +0100 Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I discussed several stuff on IRC recently but wanted to share my thoughts here. 1. One idea is getting rid of the dwm bar altogether and to print the dwm state to stdout when it changes, however after

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Enno Boland (Gottox)
Hi there ! 2009/4/27, Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com: Thanks for all the valueable input so far in this thread. I think here are the action points: 1) I plan to separate the bar stuff code-wise into two portions -- the tag bar with tags and layout info, and the title/status bar, but

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Anselm R Garbe
2009/4/27 Preben Randhol rand...@pvv.org: On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:11:03 +0100 Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: So there are only three ways: - stick with what we got (don't care if some langs look ugly) - use pango and/or cairo or something like that - invest some effort into a new

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Preben Randhol
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:10:47 +0100 Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/27 Preben Randhol rand...@pvv.org: What about xft? Wasn't there a patch for 4.7 (can't find it anymore). I don't know much about the font systems. One option, though quite half hearted in my opinion. I

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Preben Randhol
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:11:03 +0100 Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: So there are only three ways: - stick with what we got (don't care if some langs look ugly) - use pango and/or cairo or something like that - invest some effort into a new font rendering lib (seems to be a hard job,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Preben Randhol
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:49:55 -0500 Kurt H Maier karmaf...@gmail.com wrote: I keep hoping to see dwm go into a 'steady state' where the only patches are to maintain compatibility with latest x.org, etc., but instead every time it seems 'done' we shoot forward into crazy-ass ideas like

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:47:19AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: Personally I would like to have one dwm as is, and one gdwm (or some better name) with more bells and whistles and dependencies. http://wmii.suckless.org/ Or is Wmii dead in the water?

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Randy Morris
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:05:11PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: What about xft? Wasn't there a patch for 4.7 (can't find it anymore). I don't know much about the font systems. I've been using this patch for quite some time with no issues. If anyone wants to see the implementation for reference,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Matthias Kirschner
* David E. Thiel l...@redundancy.redundancy.org [2009-04-25 13:27:51 -0701]: On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 08:29:12PM +0200, Dusan wrote: Please keep bar, that's why dwm is great out of the box. Agreed. A window manager should be usable on its own, and have sensible defaults. Ability to

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Valentin
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35:20AM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: - Mathematica (Version?) 7 breaks on the help window - it doesn't get keyboard focus, mouse focus still works. First the layout gets applied to it, then the other windows move back below it. I'm pretty sure that 6 did not have this

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread pancake
I want to feed the mailing with some more words about this topic... I don't really care about the font rendering, because I just use title bar to see what's going on the window (like for large builds or browser's page titles, ..) And I dont really read contents in chineese or russian, so i'm

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Preben Ran well, what is the purpose of a stausbar? It is a minority of the worlds population that adheres to 7-bit ASCII. Which just makes it more mysterious that nobody has fixed xlib font rendering. or that one just patch dwm for pango like one need to do

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Preben Randhol
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:51:24 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:47:19AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: Personally I would like to have one dwm as is, and one gdwm (or some better name) with more bells and whistles and dependencies.

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35:20AM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: Thanks for all the valueable input so far in this thread. I think here are the action points: 1) I plan to separate the bar stuff code-wise into two portions -- the tag bar with tags and layout info, and the title/status bar,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Valentin
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 08:47:33PM +0200, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35:20AM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: That's mainly proprietary software. dwm shouldn't support that kind of software, but instead expose their bare brokenness to the user. Maybe users will

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Matthias-Christian Ott o...@mirix.org wrote: Could you please briefly explain why you are opposed to XRandR. It seems pretty common and usable. Not only that, xinerama is going to be entirely supplanted by xrandr. Developing for xinerama is a dead end. On Mon,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 08:50:49PM +0200, Valentin wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 08:47:33PM +0200, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35:20AM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: That's mainly proprietary software. dwm shouldn't support that kind of software, but instead

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Amit Uttamchandani
Except some of us don't have a choice and have to use this for their work or at uni... Well, what about GNU Octave? Mathematica seems to have become as much a disease as Fortran was in last decades. I once tried to explain to my professor if I could use Octave instead of Matlab but he

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Antoni Grzymala
Kurt H Maier dixit (2009-04-27, 13:54): $subject is broken, therefore we must bloat up dwm to work around it is bad reasoning, even if $subject is x11 font rendering or some expensive app my school is forcing on me The only difference is that you *have* to use X11 font rendering while you do

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:05:57PM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote: Except some of us don't have a choice and have to use this for their work or at uni... Well, what about GNU Octave? Mathematica seems to have become as much a disease as Fortran was in last decades. I once tried

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Jeremy Jay
Don't be a bigot, it just makes you look like a moron too. Free Software is about choice, forcing people to use an app just because you use it is pretty stupid and annoying and just gives people a negative association with it. Let people make their own choices. Last I checked it was very easy to

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread markus schnalke
[ pretty off topic ] Three days off-line and now ... *eek* ... 75 new messages. It was interesting to read all those opinions and comments. I think it was even fun, because I'm not directly affected ... not anymore. I already found what I was looking for, more than a year ago. dwm then was

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread pancake
When I was in the university I had to use matlab. Proffessors told me that I can use the windows boxes in place, but for personal reasons (time and so) I proposed them to use the telnet interface and use it remotely. It happened that their license didn't allowed them to export the

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Martin Oppegaard
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 06:57:13PM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:51:24 +0200 Martin Oppegaard mar...@deathaven.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:47:19AM +0200, Preben Randhol wrote: Personally I would like to have one dwm as is, and one gdwm (or some better

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 04:05:36PM -0400, Jeremy Jay wrote: Don't be a bigot, it just makes you look like a moron too. Free Software Well, you are a moron if you get bad marks, because you didn't hand in your papers, because you refuse to use proprietary software: You don't change anything and

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Matthias-Christian Ott
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:58:31PM +0200, pancake wrote: When I was in the university I had to use matlab. Proffessors told me that I can use the windows boxes in place, but for personal reasons (time and so) I proposed them to use the telnet interface and use it remotely. It happened

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread David Tweed
I thought you mentioned stopping in the email you sent before this one? (Or was that only applicble to other people?) On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Matthias-Christian Ott o...@mirix.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:58:31PM +0200, pancake wrote: When I was in the university I had to use

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread yy
2009/4/27 Matthias-Christian Ott o...@mirix.org: At least you didn't loose your dignity, carried out your principles and proofed that Free Software is as powerful as an expensive proprietary software. But it is not always possible. I can give you a (quite long) list of software that doesn't

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Preben Randhol
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:54:35 +0200 markus schnalke mei...@marmaro.de wrote: Important is IMO to define a clear goal and to follow a straight path to this goal. This is not only for the competition with other WMs but also for keeping the software clear. Yes, I wanted at one point to try out

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Jimmy Tang
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 08:47:33PM +0200, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote: That's mainly proprietary software. dwm shouldn't support that kind of software, but instead expose their bare brokenness to the user. Maybe users will realise then that proprietary software is not worth using, because you

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Thomas Lavergne
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 04:05:36PM -0400, Jeremy Jay wrote: Don't be a bigot, it just makes you look like a moron too. Free Software is about choice, forcing people to use an app just because you use it is pretty stupid and annoying and just gives people a negative association with it. Let

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Uriel
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Haomin Wen wen1...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I am sorry but I really hope dwm can switch to using pango. X fonts are broken and not well supported, at least in Ubuntu. I have six Chinese fonts shown in xlsfonts, but only two of them can be displayed. Then file

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-27 Thread Uriel
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Kurt H Maier karmaf...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Mate Nagy mn...@port70.net wrote: I strongly believe that the major problem of dwm currently is not font handling (8bit ascii bitmap fonts are perfectly fine thank you); Agree 100%.  

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Anselm R Garbe
Hi, 2009/4/26 Szabolcs Nagy nszabo...@gmail.com: On 4/26/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:06:08PM +0100, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: On 4/25/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: work, even without pango or cairo.  I have German umlauts as well as

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Anselm R Garbe
2009/4/26 Szabolcs Nagy nszabo...@gmail.com: On 4/25/09, Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: 1. One idea is getting rid of the dwm bar altogether and to print the dwm state to stdout when it changes, however after thinking carefully about it I conclude that having the bar build-in is

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Haomin Wen
Oh, sorry. There is a typo. Three but not two Chinese fonts can be displayed. Two of them are too large, and the third one is not bitmap font. On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Haomin Wen wen1...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I am sorry but I really hope dwm can switch to using pango. X fonts are

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Haomin Wen
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 9:15 PM, Kurt H Maier karmaf...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 6:57 AM, Haomin Wen wen1...@gmail.com wrote: For programmers, there is little difference, or at least it generally will not increase SLOC. Yes, but at the cost of dragging in a huge chain of

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread yy
You could add an option to print the window title to stdout. This way if somebody wants to pipe it to an external program to show window titles (like dzen on top of the dwm bar), they can. -- - yiyus || JGL .

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread bill lam
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Haomin Wen wrote: Hello, I am sorry but I really hope dwm can switch to using pango. X fonts are broken and not well supported, at least in Ubuntu. I have six Chinese fonts shown in xlsfonts, but only two of them can be displayed. Two of them only support 16 pixel and

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Haomin Wen
I do not care antialias or hinting if there are bitmap fonts, but they are necessary when using some truetype fonts. I use dmenu to show how fonts are broken. https://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/957017/1/dwm?h=fb5e6b On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:13 PM, bill lam cbill@gmail.com wrote: On Sun,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Mate Nagy
Hi all, I'm sure there is a severe risk of this piece being understood as flamebait (this is not my intention). However, I strongly believe that the major problem of dwm currently is not font handling (8bit ascii bitmap fonts are perfectly fine thank you); not the status bar (it's great);

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Antoni Grzymala
Mate Nagy dixit (2009-04-26, 17:01): However, I strongly believe that the major problem of dwm currently is not font handling (8bit ascii bitmap fonts are perfectly fine thank you); This is a very selfish view. 8-bit character sets suck big way, even not considering anything outside accented

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread bill lam
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Haomin Wen wrote: I do not care antialias or hinting if there are bitmap fonts, but they are necessary when using some truetype fonts. I use dmenu to show how fonts are broken. https://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/957017/1/dwm?h=fb5e6b Thanks, I follow you example by echo

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Evgeny Grablyk
Hi, Why not make statusbar a (default) compile-time option, and add possibility to export all statusbar information? This way user can choose between builtin statusbar, or make his own. To make things more simple, mouseclick support for statusbar should be removed. As about cairo/pango, again,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Mate Nagy mn...@port70.net wrote: I strongly believe that the major problem of dwm currently is not font handling (8bit ascii bitmap fonts are perfectly fine thank you); Agree 100%. Folks, if you want unicode support, develop a sane, working implementation.

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Mate Nagy
...that's from dwm 5.4.1, using xrandr --output DVI-0 --right-of DVI-1. Problem solved. well obviously i had something more sophisticated in mind :) like, horribile dictu, displaying different tags or different layouts on different monitors. or supporting more monitors than 2... M.

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Mate Nagy mn...@port70.net wrote: ...that's from dwm 5.4.1, using xrandr --output DVI-0 --right-of DVI-1. Problem solved. well obviously i had something more sophisticated in mind :) like, horribile dictu, displaying different tags or different layouts on

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Guillaume Quintin
Hi, I never look at the windows titles. I only look at the tags in the status bar. So for me, this font rendering problem is less important than this problem : handling several monitors. I agree with Mate Nagy about dwm handling correctly several monitors. My point of view is that we should

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Enno Boland (Gottox)
Hi There! 3. A third idea for legacy support is, that I tend to add a compile-time option or a specific Rule extension that let's you set to reparent all clients or certain clients which are broken such as Mathematica or various Swing apps, though I'm not absolutely sure how likely that

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread David E. Thiel
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 05:09:26PM +0200, Antoni Grzymala wrote: Mate Nagy dixit (2009-04-26, 17:01): However, I strongly believe that the major problem of dwm currently is not font handling (8bit ascii bitmap fonts are perfectly fine thank you); This is a very selfish view. 8-bit

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:08 PM, David E. Thiel l...@redundancy.redundancy.org wrote: Agreed. Proven fact: non-English-speaking people exist. Minimalism and simplicity shouldn't exclude basic functionality like displaying characters in the language the user speaks. Rendering thousands of

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread David Tweed
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Evgeny Grablyk evgeny.grab...@gmail.com wrote: Why not make statusbar a (default) compile-time option, and add possibility to export all statusbar information? This way user can choose between builtin statusbar, or make his own. To make things more simple,

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-26 Thread Marc Andre Tanner
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 08:15:40AM -0500, Kurt H Maier wrote: I may be be in the minority here, but ASCII works wonderfully, and I'm happy with the state of font rendering in dwm. +1 -- Marc Andre Tanner http://www.brain-dump.org/ GPG key: CF7D56C0

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Dusan
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:23:50 +0100 Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I discussed several stuff on IRC recently but wanted to share my thoughts here. 1. One idea is getting rid of the dwm bar altogether and to print the dwm state to stdout when it changes, however after

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Anselm R Garbe
2009/4/25 yy yiyu@gmail.com: There is a middle way solution. I just thought about it, and will probably have its drawbacks, but here it goes: keep a bar with only the tags and tile symbol and print the sel client title to stdout. This way you can use an external program (dzen) to render

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Alexander Polakov
2009/4/25, yy yiyu@gmail.com: There is a middle way solution. I just thought about it, and will probably have its drawbacks, but here it goes: keep a bar with only the tags and tile symbol and print the sel client title to stdout. This way you can use an external program (dzen) to render

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread David E. Thiel
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 08:29:12PM +0200, Dusan wrote: Please keep bar, that's why dwm is great out of the box. Agreed. A window manager should be usable on its own, and have sensible defaults. Ability to customize is great, but it shouldn't be depended upon to make for a decent user experience.

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Christian Garbs
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 09:37:56PM +0200, yy wrote: I don't think nobody needs unicode glyphs in their tag names or tile symbols, you wouldn't need cairo in dwm I'm still using dwm-4.7 (because I did not yet have time to port all patches to the current version), but Unicode glyphs in status

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Wu, Yue
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 07:23:50PM +0100, Anselm R Garbe wrote: 2. Another idea is to switch to another dependency for the rendering bit which could possibly be cairo. After all I'm nearly giving up the hope that X font handling will ever be fixed and work properly, so that relying on a pile

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Michael
Anselm R Garbe wrote: 2. Another idea is to switch to another dependency for the rendering bit which could possibly be cairo. After all I'm nearly giving up the hope that X font handling will ever be fixed and work properly, so that relying on a pile of other crap seems to become a solution.

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Szabolcs Nagy
On 4/25/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: work, even without pango or cairo. I have German umlauts as well as Japanese characters (eg. web page titles from Firefox). try greek or cyrillic i had trouble with those when fonts were loaded with XCreateFontSet

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread pmarin
In spanish we have a sentence for this: gunfire to kill flies On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Szabolcs Nagy nszabo...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/25/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: work, even without pango or cairo.  I have German umlauts as well as Japanese characters (eg. web page

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Szabolcs Nagy
On 4/25/09, Anselm R Garbe garb...@gmail.com wrote: 1. One idea is getting rid of the dwm bar altogether and to print the dwm state to stdout when it changes, however after thinking carefully about it I conclude that having the bar build-in is definately a stayer. It's so much simpler than the

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Christian Garbs
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:06:08PM +0100, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: On 4/25/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: work, even without pango or cairo. I have German umlauts as well as Japanese characters (eg. web page titles from Firefox). try greek or cyrillic i had trouble with those

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread bill lam
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, Christian Garbs wrote: On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 09:37:56PM +0200, yy wrote: I don't think nobody needs unicode glyphs in their tag names or tile symbols, you wouldn't need cairo in dwm I'm still using dwm-4.7 (because I did not yet have time to port all patches to

Re: [dwm] dwm's future

2009-04-25 Thread Szabolcs Nagy
On 4/26/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:06:08PM +0100, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: On 4/25/09, Christian Garbs mi...@cgarbs.de wrote: work, even without pango or cairo. I have German umlauts as well as Japanese characters (eg. web page titles from Firefox).