Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers 2

[john]

Still trolling, I see.


At 10:30 PM 6/29/2006, Charles Harpole wrote:

The total report text site has been given on this reflector.

We must beware of totally condemning someone who was likely exercising his 
right as a citizen to petition his government.  I wish he had kept quiet, 
but that action, as unwise as we may think it to be, in no way excuses 
what may have been a poorly thought out trip to Desecheo.


The real test of the value and honor of ham radio is how we react to this 
situation.  So far, blaming the messenger is not so high minded, to say 
the least.  73


Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers 2

[Charles Harpole]

The total report text site has been given on this reflector.

We must beware of totally condemning someone who was likely exercising his 
right as a citizen to petition his government.  I wish he had kept quiet, 
but that action, as unwise as we may think it to be, in no way excuses what 
may have been a poorly thought out trip to Desecheo.


The real test of the value and honor of ham radio is how we react to this 
situation.  So far, blaming the messenger is not so high minded, to say the 
least.  73


Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Jerry Keller]

Amen, Ron. The unfortunate that did this will likely be the focus of the DX 
community, at least, and will probably become a pariah worldwide. Not a 
consequence to be taken lightly or a tag to be assigned without absolute 
proof.

73, Jerry K3BZ

- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Peter Dougherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Scott Manthe" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Charles Harpole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 


Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers


Whoa!  Until some solid information comes forth that the KP1-KP5 project 
had a connection with the last KP5 trip, let's NOT drag them into this!


All we know is that someone, an amateur, complained.

We do NOT know who it is.

We do NOT know where she or he actually lives.

We do NOT know their connection, if any, to the congress-gonif.

We do NOT know whether or not they are an active amateur.

We do NOT know if they are an active DX'er... or anything else besides the 
propensity to kvetch.


And most importantly, we do NOT know if they have ANYTHING to do with the 
KP1-5 project.  For all we know, if that project ever merits some success, 
this schmuck will complain about them too!


Enough poor souls are going to get dragged through the mud as it is. 
Let's not add the innocent until and unless we KNOW that innocent they 
ain't!


73

From: Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Jun 29 08:45:16 CDT 2006
To: Scott Manthe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charles Harpole 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,

dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

At 09:22 AM 06/29/2006, Scott Manthe wrote:

Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I
didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever
complained to him did.

A short Google of Nick Rahall reveals he is a Congressman from West
Virginia. The Desecho Island ops said that someone from West
Virginia complained to their congressman. Does anyone besides me see
a connection? Does anyone else think this is one of the "real"
issues here? If there was no jealous, complaining ham, there would
be no mention of ham radio in the report.


I suppose that someone with a lot of time on their hands could
ascertain the ZIP codes contained in the WV 3rd congressional
district, do a Buckmaster or similar search and see if any known
DXers with ties to the KP1-KP5 project come up




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Is it a complete co-incidence?  I doubt it.  So OK, let's look at this one for 
a moment...

We know little if anything about the political slant of Rep. Rahall.  Nor do we 
know why he was the sponsor of the HR #5361.  Was he (or his staff) convinced 
by good arguments from the KP1-5 Project?  Was he concerned about why US 
citizens were banned from US territories under arbitrary policies?  Or was he 
just looking for an excuse to put F&WS under the microscope?  (And that's just 
a few possibilities, we can come up with a few thousand more, but you get the 
drift).

So, now the status of the Islands has been elevated to be on his (or his 
staff's) radar.  

Then comes a complaint from an unknown party about the recent KP5 op.  As I 
mentioned earlier, we know nothing induhvidual except that they claim to be a 
ham.  And we all know what happened after that.

IMHO, it DOES NOT neccesarily follow that there's a direct connection between 
the KP1-5 Project and the "Club Fed" blast.  

We don't know who the complaining amateur was, so we don't know if that person 
had a connection of any sort with the KP1-5 group; and if there was a 
connection, we don't know if the complaint was made by that person on their own 
behalf or the groups.  We DON'T KNOW, we can only speculate.

We also don't know the motives behind the "Club Fed" paper.  Yeah, yeah, sure, 
all on behalf of We The People, right?  Or was this a political salvo aimed at 
the Executive Branch, using the facts about the KP5 op as a thin disguise for 
political intrigue and tit-for-tat?

And I seem to recall reading last December and January, when some started 
pointing fingers at the KP1-5 Project, that they were pretty unhappy to be 
blamed for the shutdown.  I'm pretty sure that they denied any connection.  

I couldn't make Dayton this year (the good news, we close on the house at 4:00 
today!) so I didn't hear what anyone had to say.

I'm just saying that we can't assume that the KP1-5 group had a hand in these 
latest goings on, and we shouldn't be so hasty as to start pointing fingers 
until we have a lot more facts in hand.

73, ron w3wn

From: Michael Keane K1MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Jun 29 09:37:35 CDT 2006
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

At 09:22 AM 6/29/06, Scott Manthe wrote:
>Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I 
>didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever 
>complained to him did.

Just so everyone is aware of the amateur radio (not partisan) 
political connections at work here... It's can't be a complete 
coincidnce that Rep. Rahall (who is mentioned in the "Club Fed" 
report) happens to be the sponsor of H.R.  1183. The bill being 
lobbied for by the KP1/5 Project which would require the Secretary of 
the Interior to provide public access to the Navassa and Desecheo NRWs.

<http://www.kp1-5.com/pdf/HR1183.pdf>
<http://www.kp1-5.com/pdf/background.pdf>
<http://www.kp1-5.com/pdf/rahallletterislands.pdf>

73,
Mike K1MK

Michael Keane K1MK
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Michael Keane K1MK]

At 09:22 AM 6/29/06, Scott Manthe wrote:
Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I 
didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever 
complained to him did.


Just so everyone is aware of the amateur radio (not partisan) 
political connections at work here... It's can't be a complete 
coincidnce that Rep. Rahall (who is mentioned in the "Club Fed" 
report) happens to be the sponsor of H.R.  1183. The bill being 
lobbied for by the KP1/5 Project which would require the Secretary of 
the Interior to provide public access to the Navassa and Desecheo NRWs.






73,
Mike K1MK

Michael Keane K1MK
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Bill]

Yes, we know!  Ask the NY Times!

Bill
- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Peter Dougherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Scott Manthe" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Charles Harpole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 


Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers


Whoa!  Until some solid information comes forth that the KP1-KP5 project 
had a connection with the last KP5 trip, let's NOT drag them into this!


All we know is that someone, an amateur, complained.

We do NOT know who it is.

We do NOT know where she or he actually lives.

We do NOT know their connection, if any, to the congress-gonif.

We do NOT know whether or not they are an active amateur.

We do NOT know if they are an active DX'er... or anything else besides the 
propensity to kvetch.


And most importantly, we do NOT know if they have ANYTHING to do with the 
KP1-5 project.  For all we know, if that project ever merits some success, 
this schmuck will complain about them too!


Enough poor souls are going to get dragged through the mud as it is. 
Let's not add the innocent until and unless we KNOW that innocent they 
ain't!


73

From: Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Jun 29 08:45:16 CDT 2006
To: Scott Manthe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charles Harpole 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,

dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

At 09:22 AM 06/29/2006, Scott Manthe wrote:

Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I
didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever
complained to him did.

A short Google of Nick Rahall reveals he is a Congressman from West
Virginia. The Desecho Island ops said that someone from West
Virginia complained to their congressman. Does anyone besides me see
a connection? Does anyone else think this is one of the "real"
issues here? If there was no jealous, complaining ham, there would
be no mention of ham radio in the report.


I suppose that someone with a lot of time on their hands could
ascertain the ZIP codes contained in the WV 3rd congressional
district, do a Buckmaster or similar search and see if any known
DXers with ties to the KP1-KP5 project come up




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Whoa!  Until some solid information comes forth that the KP1-KP5 project had a 
connection with the last KP5 trip, let's NOT drag them into this!

All we know is that someone, an amateur, complained.

We do NOT know who it is.

We do NOT know where she or he actually lives.

We do NOT know their connection, if any, to the congress-gonif.

We do NOT know whether or not they are an active amateur.

We do NOT know if they are an active DX'er... or anything else besides the 
propensity to kvetch.

And most importantly, we do NOT know if they have ANYTHING to do with the KP1-5 
project.  For all we know, if that project ever merits some success, this 
schmuck will complain about them too!

Enough poor souls are going to get dragged through the mud as it is.  Let's not 
add the innocent until and unless we KNOW that innocent they ain't!

73

From: Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Jun 29 08:45:16 CDT 2006
To: Scott Manthe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charles Harpole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
        dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

At 09:22 AM 06/29/2006, Scott Manthe wrote:
>Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I 
>didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever 
>complained to him did.
>
>A short Google of Nick Rahall reveals he is a Congressman from West 
>Virginia. The Desecho Island ops said that someone from West 
>Virginia complained to their congressman. Does anyone besides me see 
>a connection? Does anyone else think this is one of the "real" 
>issues here? If there was no jealous, complaining ham, there would 
>be no mention of ham radio in the report.

I suppose that someone with a lot of time on their hands could 
ascertain the ZIP codes contained in the WV 3rd congressional 
district, do a Buckmaster or similar search and see if any known 
DXers with ties to the KP1-KP5 project come up




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 


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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Peter Dougherty]

At 09:22 AM 06/29/2006, Scott Manthe wrote:
Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I 
didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever 
complained to him did.


A short Google of Nick Rahall reveals he is a Congressman from West 
Virginia. The Desecho Island ops said that someone from West 
Virginia complained to their congressman. Does anyone besides me see 
a connection? Does anyone else think this is one of the "real" 
issues here? If there was no jealous, complaining ham, there would 
be no mention of ham radio in the report.


I suppose that someone with a lot of time on their hands could 
ascertain the ZIP codes contained in the WV 3rd congressional 
district, do a Buckmaster or similar search and see if any known 
DXers with ties to the KP1-KP5 project come up





Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Scott Manthe]

Like it or not, our politics drive our actions. And unfortunately, I 
didn't bring politics in to this, Rep. Rahall did and  whoever 
complained to him did.


A short Google of Nick Rahall reveals he is a Congressman from West 
Virginia. The Desecho Island ops said that someone from West Virginia 
complained to their congressman. Does anyone besides me see a 
connection? Does anyone else think this is one of the "real" issues 
here? If there was no jealous, complaining ham, there would be no 
mention of ham radio in the report.


73,
Scott, N9AA

Charles Harpole wrote:
Scott asks where I got my information re the Rep. Rahall congressional 
staff report re Desecheo op.


I first learned of this report via W3UR's DAILY DX internet 
newsletter.  That post led me to the actual full text document.


Further, please read my comments again I did NOT inject politics 
into the matter.  Scott did.


Please concentrate on the real issues here.  73,

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [DX-CHAT] Desecheo I. answers

[Barry]

Charles,
Can you post an online link to the report?

I, too, was at the Dayton presentation and from what I heard (obviously 
one side of the story, but the other side chooses to remain anonymous), 
if anyone should be tarred and feathered, it's the infant who 
precipitated the investigation.


73,
Barry

Charles Harpole wrote:
Scott asks where I got my information re the Rep. Rahall congressional 
staff report re Desecheo op.


I first learned of this report via W3UR's DAILY DX internet 
newsletter.  That post led me to the actual full text document.


Further, please read my comments again I did NOT inject politics 
into the matter.  Scott did.


Please concentrate on the real issues here.  73,

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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--

Barry Kutner, W2UP 
Newtown, PA 

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