Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
One thing that would help satisfy my curiosity would be to see two pie-charts showing where college fees go (or went), one for the early seventies and one for today. How much of the room/board/tuition goes to professors' salaries, administrators' salaries, non-teaching professionals' salaries, to janitors and buildings-and-grounds workers' salaries, etc. How much goes to new construction, to maintenance, to grounds keeping, to pensions, to fund raising, to compliance, to research, to scholarships, etc. Does anyone have the data that would go into making these pie charts? What shifts would we see? From what I've read in the previous posts on this thread, we might see increases of the pie slivers representing compliance, professors' salaries, administrators' salaries, and scholarships. Which pie slices will have gotten smaller to fund these increases? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/29 Dawn Stover dsto...@hughes.net My experience is similar to Martin's, and I inquired about the high cost at my last college reunion. I was told that the reason the price tag is so high is because many students who have the academic credentials to qualify for acceptance come from lower-income backgrounds than in earlier times. The college wants to admit those students to maintain diversity within the student body, so they give them financial aid and subsidize it by raising the price for students who can afford to pay full freight. When you're calculating the cost of a college education, you have to consider how many students at that college are receiving financial aid, and how much they receive on average. At my alma mater, few students are paying the full price. If they come from a middle-class or low-income family, they typically receive financial-aid packages that can include grants, loans, and on-campus jobs. One thing that has changed is that many liberal arts colleges no longer can afford to admit 100 percent of their students on a need-blind basis (i.e. based on their academic credentials alone). Now many private, liberal arts colleges admit a small (but growing) percentage of students who are slightly less qualified than needier applicants but have the ability to pay the full price. Dawn Stover On Dec 28, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Martin Meiss wrote: Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming something only for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto: ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto: ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. -- David McNeely
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
Hmmm... My father earned enough as a junior faculty member to support a wife and three kids. My junior colleagues certainly cannot, at least in California. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 28, 2011, at 6:49 PM, Judith S. Weis jw...@andromeda.rutgers.edu wrote: Another element is that now faculty earn a reasonable living wage, while several decades ago they didn't. One element in the increase in college costs, not just research, is accountability. Congress has passed laws that had good objectives (protecting human subjects, protecting animals, ensuring occupational safety, reducing campus crime, ensuring no discrimination on campus, ensuring fair value for federal student loans, etc etc.). Laws become rules and regulations which are monitored and enforced by federal agencies that have no real need to restrain themselves, so they add more regulations, the better to enforce the intent of the law. Universities meanwhile, trying to stay in compliance, add senior administrators and assistants and assistants to assistants to deal with the regulations. These bureaucracies (well any bureaucracy) protect themselves and the best way to be protected is to jump through every hoop the agencies put in place. Because the university might get in trouble, compliance gets handed what is often essentially a blank check. Whole industries have developed around animal care, human subjects, college accreditation etc. These classes and consultants don't tell the universities how to maximize compliance at minimal cost, instead they suggest ever better and more expensive ways to be in compliance, selling something the compliance bureaucrats are more than happy to buy. Even more senior administrators are brought on board and again, they need more support staff. For research, the more the university spends on compliance, the higher the indirect cost it can charge the federal government, thus providing even more money for compliance. Unless the funder is NIH, higher indirect means the amount the researcher actually gets is smaller, so research loses. And so it goes. With federal funds in short supply, the agencies should be taking a look at compliance, but then they have their own compliance empires to support. Is the compliance industry the only cause of increased tuition costs? No. As one of the articles mentioned, higher tuition makes a college more attractive (never mind that like hotel room rates the list price is not necessarily what you end up paying). State and federal governments no longer feel education is so important so they have decreased support. This is in stunning contrast to after World War II when the GI Bill jump started American prosperity through essentially free higher education for returning vets. Too many Americans, politicians and administrators now seem to regard universities as factories that produce degrees, learning being incidental. In that case, climbing walls and Jacuzzis make sense, making one factory/college more competitive than another. So does hiring of 'rock star' professors that, like professional athletes, lend their names but not always their teaching skills to the university's brand, while driving up faculty salaries. More and more people are telling universities to jump and fewer and fewer universities are bothering to ask why before they do. Until faculty and students start asking why, the universities won't so things will continue as they are, or get worse. That's the way it is. Happy New Year. David Duffy David Cameron Duffy Ph.D. Professor/PCSU Unit Leader/CESU Director PCSU/CESU/Department of Botany University of Hawaii Manoa - Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
Here is one example of new costs (read the second url especially). State colleges and universities that offer distance learning out of state must be licensed by the other states. If you have one student or 100 from state x, you have to get licensed by that state. The other states, since it is not their money, have no incentive to minimize costs. Some appear to be simple shakedown artists. Others may simply not have the capacity (legal or human) to handle so many license applications. This was intended to rein in fly by night correspondence schools. Will it work? Your call. Does it hurt education opportunities for students and increase costs of distance education for responsible institutions and their students? Now imagine hundreds of similar compliance demands and their costs lurking like icebergs below the surface of university budgeting. see http://wcet.wiche.edu/advance/state-approval State Authorization--An Introduction On October 29, 2010, the U.S. Department of Education (USDOE) released new “program integrity” regulations. One of the regulations focused on the need for institutions offering distance or correspondence education to acquire authorization from any state in which it operates.” This authorization is required to maintain eligibility for students of that state to receive federal financial aid. Institutions have until July 1, 2014, to have obtained the appropriate approvals. Meanwhile, institutions are required to demonstrate a 'good faith' effort to comply in each state in which it serves students. While the regulation has been 'vacated' by court orter, we believe it will be reinstated. see this for estimated costs of this program for different institutions: http://wcet.wiche.edu/wcet/docs/state-approval/StateAuthorizationCostsofCompliance04-08-11.pdf David Cameron Duffy Ph.D. Professor/PCSU Unit Leader/CESU Director PCSU/CESU/Department of Botany University of Hawaii Manoa 3190 Maile Way, St John 410 Honolulu, HI 96822 USA Tel 808-956-8218, FAX 808-956-4710 http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/duffy/ - Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com Date: Friday, December 30, 2011 4:22 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU One thing that would help satisfy my curiosity would be to see two pie-charts showing where college fees go (or went), one for the early seventies and one for today. How much of the room/board/tuition goes to professors' salaries, administrators' salaries, non-teaching professionals'salaries, to janitors and buildings-and-grounds workers' salaries, etc. How much goes to new construction, to maintenance, to grounds keeping, to pensions, to fund raising, to compliance, to research, to scholarships,etc. Does anyone have the data that would go into making these pie charts? What shifts would we see? From what I've read in the previous posts on this thread, we might see increases of the pie slivers representing compliance, professors' salaries, administrators' salaries,and scholarships. Which pie slices will have gotten smaller to fund these increases? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/29 Dawn Stover dsto...@hughes.net My experience is similar to Martin's, and I inquired about the high cost at my last college reunion. I was told that the reason the price tag is so high is because many students who have the academic credentials to qualify for acceptance come from lower-income backgrounds than in earlier times. The college wants to admit those students to maintain diversity within the student body, so they give them financial aid and subsidize it by raising the price for students who can afford to pay full freight. When you're calculating the cost of a college education, you have to consider how many students at that college are receiving financial aid, and how much they receive on average. At my alma mater, few students are paying the full price. If they come from a middle-class or low-income family, they typically receive financial-aid packages that can include grants, loans, and on-campus jobs. One thing that has changed is that many liberal arts colleges no longer can afford to admit 100 percent of their students on a need- blind basis (i.e. based on their academic credentials alone). Now many private, liberal arts colleges admit a small (but growing) percentage of students who are slightly less qualified than needier applicants but have the ability to pay the full price. Dawn Stover On Dec 28, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Martin Meiss wrote: Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
Meiss mme...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming somethingonly for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. -- David McNeely
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming somethingonly for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
professional athletes, lend their names but not always their teaching skills to the university's brand, while driving up faculty salaries. More and more people are telling universities to jump and fewer and fewer universities are bothering to ask why before they do. Until faculty and students start asking why, the universities won't so things will continue as they are, or get worse. That's the way it is. Happy New Year. David Duffy David Cameron Duffy Ph.D. Professor/PCSU Unit Leader/CESU Director PCSU/CESU/Department of Botany University of Hawaii Manoa - Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming somethingonly for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
My experience is similar to Martin's, and I inquired about the high cost at my last college reunion. I was told that the reason the price tag is so high is because many students who have the academic credentials to qualify for acceptance come from lower-income backgrounds than in earlier times. The college wants to admit those students to maintain diversity within the student body, so they give them financial aid and subsidize it by raising the price for students who can afford to pay full freight. When you're calculating the cost of a college education, you have to consider how many students at that college are receiving financial aid, and how much they receive on average. At my alma mater, few students are paying the full price. If they come from a middle-class or low-income family, they typically receive financial-aid packages that can include grants, loans, and on-campus jobs. One thing that has changed is that many liberal arts colleges no longer can afford to admit 100 percent of their students on a need-blind basis (i.e. based on their academic credentials alone). Now many private, liberal arts colleges admit a small (but growing) percentage of students who are slightly less qualified than needier applicants but have the ability to pay the full price. Dawn Stover On Dec 28, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Martin Meiss wrote: Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming something only for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming something only for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
Hmmm, maybe a look at how the number and salaries of administrators have changed would add some illumination to this subject. Greatly increasing trends at both private and public institutions. Here's a recent article from the Times http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/education/increase-in-pay-for-presidents-at-private-colleges.html?_r=1scp=1sq=university%20president%20salariesst=cse Meanwhile faculty at many public institutions haven't had salary increases in 3-5 years and adjusted for inflation are making less than they did five years ago. cheers, g2 On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. -- Gary D. Grossman, PhD Professor of Animal Ecology Warnell School of Forestry Natural Resources University of Georgia Athens, GA, USA 30602 Research teaching web site - http://grossman.myweb.uga.edu/http://www.arches.uga.edu/%7Egrossman Board of Editors - Animal Biodiversity and Conservation Editorial Board - Freshwater Biology Editorial Board - Ecology Freshwater Fish Sculpture by Gary D. Grossman http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gary-Grossmans-Sculpture-Portfolio/124819124227147http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/album.php?aid=2002317id=1348406658 Hutson Gallery Provincetown, MA - www.hutsongallery.net/artists.html
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
One element in the increase in college costs, not just research, is accountability. Congress has passed laws that had good objectives (protecting human subjects, protecting animals, ensuring occupational safety, reducing campus crime, ensuring no discrimination on campus, ensuring fair value for federal student loans, etc etc.). Laws become rules and regulations which are monitored and enforced by federal agencies that have no real need to restrain themselves, so they add more regulations, the better to enforce the intent of the law. Universities meanwhile, trying to stay in compliance, add senior administrators and assistants and assistants to assistants to deal with the regulations. These bureaucracies (well any bureaucracy) protect themselves and the best way to be protected is to jump through every hoop the agencies put in place. Because the university might get in trouble, compliance gets handed what is often essentially a blank check. Whole industries have developed around animal care, human subjects, college accreditation etc. These classes and consultants don't tell the universities how to maximize compliance at minimal cost, instead they suggest ever better and more expensive ways to be in compliance, selling something the compliance bureaucrats are more than happy to buy. Even more senior administrators are brought on board and again, they need more support staff. For research, the more the university spends on compliance, the higher the indirect cost it can charge the federal government, thus providing even more money for compliance. Unless the funder is NIH, higher indirect means the amount the researcher actually gets is smaller, so research loses. And so it goes. With federal funds in short supply, the agencies should be taking a look at compliance, but then they have their own compliance empires to support. Is the compliance industry the only cause of increased tuition costs? No. As one of the articles mentioned, higher tuition makes a college more attractive (never mind that like hotel room rates the list price is not necessarily what you end up paying). State and federal governments no longer feel education is so important so they have decreased support. This is in stunning contrast to after World War II when the GI Bill jump started American prosperity through essentially free higher education for returning vets. Too many Americans, politicians and administrators now seem to regard universities as factories that produce degrees, learning being incidental. In that case, climbing walls and Jacuzzis make sense, making one factory/college more competitive than another. So does hiring of 'rock star' professors that, like professional athletes, lend their names but not always their teaching skills to the university's brand, while driving up faculty salaries. More and more people are telling universities to jump and fewer and fewer universities are bothering to ask why before they do. Until faculty and students start asking why, the universities won't so things will continue as they are, or get worse. That's the way it is. Happy New Year. David Duffy David Cameron Duffy Ph.D. Professor/PCSU Unit Leader/CESU Director PCSU/CESU/Department of Botany University of Hawaii Manoa - Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming somethingonly for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
In the 1970s, there was almost no personal computers and printers. Electric calculator was noble. Library literature search means you go to the library and spend all day reading journals, follow citations, for other publications. Many ecological researches are based on field observations and simple experimental studies. Student dorm means just rooms and beds. All you needed for education were pen, paper, book, and brain. Now, everyone have PC, printer. Basic class lab work involves DNA sequences, and expensive chemical analyses machines, GIS, and yes internet. Student residential housing now have internet, AC, security, gym, pools, all amenities. All of those peripheral machines and equipments, minimum requirements for a basic education cost a lot of money to purchase, operate, maintain, upgrade, and replace. Oh, and a lot of supporting staff to keep those running without interruption. No wonder, the cost of education has become very expensive. Toshihide Hamachan Hamazaki, 濱崎俊秀PhD Alaska Department of Fish and Game: アラスカ州漁業野生動物課 Division of Commercial Fisheries: 商業漁業部 333 Raspberry Rd. Anchorage, AK 99518 Phone: (907)267-2158 Cell: (907)440-9934 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Meiss Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:06 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming something only for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering the financial burden of higher education from the general public to individuals (students and parents). Although tuition increases have been high, they cannot close the gap; hence the fiscal peril that public research institutions now find themselves in. ___ Richard L. Lindroth, Ph.D. Professor of Ecology, Associate Dean for Research, and Associate Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG- l...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Cherubini Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril The University of California at Berkeley subsists now in perpetual austerity. Star faculty take mandatory furloughs. Classes grow perceptibly larger each year. Roofs leak; e-mail crashes. One employee mows the entire campus. Wastebaskets are emptied once a week. Some professors lack telephones. If all of the above is true, then can someone please explain why for 20+ years the annual increase in the cost of college tuition has far outpaced the consumer price index, heath care, energy costs, etc. http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?doc_id=1450 http://tinyurl.com/6xq6hv Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril
Another element is that now faculty earn a reasonable living wage, while several decades ago they didn't. One element in the increase in college costs, not just research, is accountability. Congress has passed laws that had good objectives (protecting human subjects, protecting animals, ensuring occupational safety, reducing campus crime, ensuring no discrimination on campus, ensuring fair value for federal student loans, etc etc.). Laws become rules and regulations which are monitored and enforced by federal agencies that have no real need to restrain themselves, so they add more regulations, the better to enforce the intent of the law. Universities meanwhile, trying to stay in compliance, add senior administrators and assistants and assistants to assistants to deal with the regulations. These bureaucracies (well any bureaucracy) protect themselves and the best way to be protected is to jump through every hoop the agencies put in place. Because the university might get in trouble, compliance gets handed what is often essentially a blank check. Whole industries have developed around animal care, human subjects, college accreditation etc. These classes and consultants don't tell the universities how to maximize compliance at minimal cost, instead they suggest ever better and more expensive ways to be in compliance, selling something the compliance bureaucrats are more than happy to buy. Even more senior administrators are brought on board and again, they need more support staff. For research, the more the university spends on compliance, the higher the indirect cost it can charge the federal government, thus providing even more money for compliance. Unless the funder is NIH, higher indirect means the amount the researcher actually gets is smaller, so research loses. And so it goes. With federal funds in short supply, the agencies should be taking a look at compliance, but then they have their own compliance empires to support. Is the compliance industry the only cause of increased tuition costs? No. As one of the articles mentioned, higher tuition makes a college more attractive (never mind that like hotel room rates the list price is not necessarily what you end up paying). State and federal governments no longer feel education is so important so they have decreased support. This is in stunning contrast to after World War II when the GI Bill jump started American prosperity through essentially free higher education for returning vets. Too many Americans, politicians and administrators now seem to regard universities as factories that produce degrees, learning being incidental. In that case, climbing walls and Jacuzzis make sense, making one factory/college more competitive than another. So does hiring of 'rock star' professors that, like professional athletes, lend their names but not always their teaching skills to the university's brand, while driving up faculty salaries. More and more people are telling universities to jump and fewer and fewer universities are bothering to ask why before they do. Until faculty and students start asking why, the universities won't so things will continue as they are, or get worse. That's the way it is. Happy New Year. David Duffy David Cameron Duffy Ph.D. Professor/PCSU Unit Leader/CESU Director PCSU/CESU/Department of Botany University of Hawaii Manoa - Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in fiscal peril To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Hi, Rick, I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private, liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about $3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about $42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has been about three-fold since then, obviously only accounts for a small part of that, and since it is a private school, declining government subsidies are not the reason. The professors haven't all become millionaires. The campus hasn't been plated with gold. The students aren't getting an education that is ten times better than what I got. This is a general trend, not just a phenomenon of my alma mater, and I really do want to know what the hell is going on. My father had a bachelor's degree, and my annual college costs were about on fifth of his annual income. I have a PhD and the costs for my kids would be well over half of my annual income. Can someone out there tell my why higher education is becoming somethingonly for the rich? Martin M. Meiss 2011/12/28 Rick Lindroth lindr...@wisc.edu The answer is simple and (nearly) universal: states' support for higher education has declined precipitously over recent decades, especially in recent years. In essence, states are transfering
