Re: [Edu-sig] Edu-sig Digest, Vol 59, Issue 6

2008-06-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
read it more closely to give you some more detailed feedback. Cheers, André Thank you! Al Sweigart ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit

Re: [Edu-sig] Pygame etc.

2008-06-27 Thread Edward Cherlin
the comments. Something that many online game servers provide for chess, go, bridge... Just a thought... I should read it more closely to give you some more detailed feedback. Cheers, André Thank you! Al Sweigart -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http

Re: [Edu-sig] Pygame etc.

2008-06-27 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 5:34 PM, kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/6/19 kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: SNIP PS: the Europython list is making me homesick for Vilnius, My grandfather was from Vilnius. You

Re: [Edu-sig] alpha release of carcode (v3)

2008-07-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
Summer of Code. Toby -- Dr. Toby Donaldson School of Computing Science Simon Fraser University (Surrey) ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit

Re: [Edu-sig] Free Software in Africa

2008-07-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
devices API although Dr. Keats isn't sure how far they've come along with that. Kirby ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business

Re: [Edu-sig] after-school python, age 11+

2008-08-21 Thread Edward Cherlin
You guys and kids are all so great. How would some of you like to speak and do demos at a future PyCon? Next year will be in Chicago, and for the year after that I am heading the bid to get it in the San Francisco Bay Area. The other possibilities are Atlanta and Cleveland. If you are interested,

Re: [Edu-sig] nouns and verbs

2008-08-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:03:03 -0700, michel paul wrote: In secondary math classes we often say Math is a language, but we really don't teach it that way. The closest we get to that is calling the comparison operators

Re: [Edu-sig] Algorithms Animator Open Sourced

2008-09-14 Thread Edward Cherlin
Thank you. Presumably we could apply the same approach to teaching elementary-school arithmetic algorithms, maze traversal algorithms, and the like for One Laptop Per Child. I have suggested this to their Education mailing list. On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 1:14 PM, DiPierro, Massimo [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Edu-sig] Python 2.6 Turtle module and Sugar TurtleArt (was Re: Edu-sig Digest, Vol 63, Issue 11)

2008-10-08 Thread Edward Cherlin
How would you compare this turtle module with the TurtleArt activity in Sugar? It is available in .deb and .rpm packages for Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora, and also in .xo bundles, installable with xo-get.py. Sugar Labs is working with other Linux distributions to make Sugar packages available as

Re: [Edu-sig] school physics/math courses

2008-10-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 4:15 AM, roberto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello (i am rather new in python ...) Have you looked at NumPy and SciPy yet? Or anything written using them? i am about to start a course of physics and math for students aged 14-17 (high school) and i am deeply interested

Re: [Edu-sig] school physics/math courses

2008-10-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
2008/10/17 michel paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]: We should abandon the vision that physicists seek an ultimate mathematical description of the universe since it is not obvious that it exists. I disagree with this attitude. We can seek an ultimate mathematical description, since it is not obvious that

Re: [Edu-sig] [Tutor] school physics/math courses

2008-10-18 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 9:06 AM, bob gailer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edward Cherlin wrote: [snip] As a teacher, I know very well what it means. Some representations are easier to understand, or easier to work with, or easier to learn from. Various thinkers, including Babbage, Whitehead

Re: [Edu-sig] More preaching to the choir...

2008-10-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
2008/10/19 kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Here's a pointer to some related writings @ Math Forum, which I used to tell Arthur S. (this archive) was more like center ring in my circus, i.e. where math teachers meet irrespective of caring about geek subculture, computers etc.:

Re: [Edu-sig] More preaching to the choir...

2008-11-01 Thread Edward Cherlin
anywhere close to Portland. As you might imagine, I have a hard time keeping up even just with what goes on in my home town. Kirby Urner Fine Grind Productions On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/19 kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Here's

Re: [Edu-sig] Reinventing the classroom...

2008-11-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM, kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So once we agree we want some kind of computer lab, the question is, what kind? That's a pretty strong assumption, and one that the 1-1 computing community would strongly take issue with. I haven't noticed much good from

Re: [Edu-sig] Programming in High School

2008-12-10 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:57 AM, David MacQuigg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirby, This is very well written appeal, but in this mailing list, you may be preaching to the choir. What I would like to see is a discussion of *why* there is not more teaching of programming in high school. I can't

Re: [Edu-sig] Fwd: The 'Certified' Teacher Myth (long)

2008-12-14 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:27 AM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I'm forwarding this, enqueued with Math Forum moderators, as it gives some background perspective of potential utility to edu-sig subscribers, plus indirectly expresses my gratitude to Stef Mientki for his promising

Re: [Edu-sig] music:piano :: math:laptop ?

2008-12-16 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:16 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Edward Cherlin's insistent pointing to the XO is helping turn some wheels on my end... It doesn't actually have to be an XO. We have projects forming up to use Sugar on a Stick with diskless computers. That will allow us

Re: [Edu-sig] Relevance of education

2008-12-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
2008/12/19 Warren Sande warren.sa...@rogers.com: One of my favourite web comics, XKCD, has a great one today: http://www.xkcd.com/519/ +1 I sent the link to some friend yesterday. (You could, of course, substitute Python for Perl...) Instead of Perl in 11th grade, iconic Turtle Art in

Re: [Edu-sig] ACM Urges Obama to Include CS as Core Component of Science, Math Education

2008-12-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
2008/12/23 michel paul mpaul...@gmail.com: http://www.acm.org/press-room/news-releases/obama-education Computing education benefits all students, not just those interested in pursuing computer science or information technology careers, said Bobby Schnabel, chair of ACM's Education Policy

Re: [Edu-sig] ACM Urges Obama to Include CS as Core Component of Science, Math Education

2008-12-25 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Daniel Ajoy da.a...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 06:00:02 -0500, edu-sig-requ...@python.org wrote: From: Edward Cherlin 2008/12/23 michel paul : http://www.acm.org/press-room/news-releases/obama-education Computing education benefits all students

Re: [Edu-sig] ACM Urges Obama to Include CS as Core Component of Science, Math Education

2008-12-25 Thread Edward Cherlin
-requ...@python.org wrote: From: Edward Cherlin 2008/12/23 michel paul : http://www.acm.org/press-room/news-releases/obama-education Computing education benefits all students, not just those interested in pursuing computer science or information technology careers, said Bobby Schnabel, chair

Re: [Edu-sig] ACM Urges Obama to Include CS as Core Component ofScience, Math Education

2008-12-29 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 11:18 AM, gerry_lowry (alliston ontario canada) gerry.lo...@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com wrote: Edward Cherlin, in part: APL is coming. NumPy is heavily influenced by APL, as are the math parts of Ada, Common LISP, FORTRAN 90 and beyond, and all functional

Re: [Edu-sig] ACM Urges Obama to Include CS as Core Component of Science, Math Education

2008-12-29 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Ivan Krstić krs...@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu wrote: On Dec 25, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Right, a nice Logo is the one missing piece of the programming environments officially supported by OLPC I talked to Walter (Bender) about a week ago,

Re: [Edu-sig] ACM Urges Obama to Include CS as Core Component ofScience, Math Education

2008-12-29 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, lots of pro J sentiment on this list, including by me, author of 'Jiving in J' (got some help with typos from Kenneth, though I think there're still a couple): http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/cp4e.html There's a

Re: [Edu-sig] Topics for CS2

2009-01-22 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:09 PM, David MacQuigg macqu...@ece.arizona.edu wrote: I'm putting together a list of topics for a proposed course entitled Programming for Scientists and Engineers. See the link to CS2 under http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/index_classes.htm. This is intended as a

Re: [Edu-sig] project Euler

2009-02-12 Thread Edward Cherlin
2009/2/11 michel paul mpaul...@gmail.com: This is a pretty cool site: Project Euler. It's a list of problems that can't be solved using mathematical cleverness alone - they require programming. Not so, according to the examples below. After you solve a problem, you then get access to the

Re: [Edu-sig] project Euler

2009-02-13 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:30 AM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP So you're doing that in your head? Not at all. I can do this example with paper and pencil, and I would want a calculator or a log

Re: [Edu-sig] project Euler

2009-02-13 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:02 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I mean the Calculator activity in Sugar, or gcalctool. Our use Pippy maybe? We have lost the context of the discussion

Re: [Edu-sig] CTL: Computer Thinking Language

2009-03-03 Thread Edward Cherlin
Comments below. We can provide the authors with a great deal more information on request. On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 1:02 PM, David MacQuigg macqu...@ece.arizona.edu wrote: There is an interesting article in the latest ACM {Human Computing Skills: Rethinking the K-12 Experience, Fletcher Lu,

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-22 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:14 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: One of our Wanderers (think tank in Portland) wrote: I expect that teaching Python/Perl/Ruby/Java in the 2000s will be viewed with the same scorn in the 2030's. The problem with flavor of the month languages is that

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:40 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP We need a language-independent way of teaching programming concepts. I have an idea for one based on Turtle Art, which represents

[Edu-sig] Fourth-grade math textbook project

2009-03-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
There is a fairly new mailing list, http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath, discussing creation of a 4th-grade math book using the Sugar software for the OLPC XO as a base. You are invited if you are interested to contribute or even just to lurk. -- Silent Thunder

[Edu-sig] From trees to text

2009-03-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
http://tonyforster.blogspot.com/2009/03/orbital-motion-in-python-and-turtleart.html Orbital motion in Python and TurtleArt Intended to demonstrate two things, a) that programmable simulations are good ways for kids to learn physics and maths b) that the programmable block provides a way for kids

Re: [Edu-sig] Generating prime numbers

2009-04-04 Thread Edward Cherlin
Your message text got stuck in an attachment, where I almost missed it. I wonder what your mail system thinks it is doing? Comment below. On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 12:48 PM, John Posner jjpos...@snet.net wrote: Sent today to python-list ... Inspired by recent threads (and recalling my first

Re: [Edu-sig] Do we teach computers when we write code?

2009-04-06 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 3:05 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wondering what others on this list think of this non-standard use of teaching when talking about programming a computer. The authors say we're teaching the computer I have a very simple take on this. It is an

[Edu-sig] Generating prime numbers

2009-04-07 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:07 AM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: As my grandmother might have said:  ai yai yai http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081203103806AA4TSOq I'm guessing Kay (XY? XX? -- not that I need to know) is a LISP and/or Scheme head, by the looks of those

Re: [Edu-sig] Fwd: Do we teach computers when we write code?

2009-04-07 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Lloyd Hugh Allen chandraki...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't posted in a while -- forgot to reply-to-edu-sig :) There is a long-running rwar between those who think that mailing lists should have a reply-to set to the mailing list address, and those who think that

[Edu-sig] Mail features (was Re: Fwd: Do we teach computers when we write code?)

2009-04-07 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:09:36 PDT, Edward Cherlin writes: There is a long-running rwar between those who think that mailing lists should have a reply-to set to the mailing list address, and those who think

Re: [Edu-sig] Mail features (was Re: Fwd: Do we teach computers when we write code?)

2009-04-07 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 3:43 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Gmail. No, source is not available. They do accept feature requests at http://mail.google.com/support/bin/static.py?page=suggestions.cs Once in a while I see that some feature I wanted made it in. Laura Of course the

Re: [Edu-sig] Considering Python for an algebra course

2009-04-15 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 4:30 AM, Maria Droujkova droujk...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I am new to this list. I am working on an algebra course where teens will create their own learning materials and share them as open educational resources (OERs). Welcome. I am working on a project to create

Re: [Edu-sig] What version of Python to teach ....

2009-04-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: One note: It is very important to teach your students how to read code.  I think that this is even more important that teaching them how to write code -- not only will they spend more time reading code than writing code

Re: [Edu-sig] What version of Python to teach ....

2009-04-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
Comment at end. On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:49:17 PDT, Edward Cherlin writes: On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: One note: It is very important to teach your students how

Re: [Edu-sig] What version of Python to teach ....

2009-04-21 Thread Edward Cherlin
Comments interspersed. On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Scott David Daniels scott.dani...@acm.org wrote: Laura Creighton wrote: One note: It is very important to teach your students how to read code.  I think that this is even more important that teaching them how to write code -- not only

Re: [Edu-sig] What Linux distro?

2009-04-21 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Fahreddın Basegmez mangab...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have been developing a programmable scientific visualization tool/rapid game maker with wxPython for a while.  I recently released the first public beta version that works on windows only.  Now, I am going

Re: [Edu-sig] Considering Python for an algebra course

2009-05-12 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Ajoy da.a...@gmail.com wrote: From: Maria Droujkova Geogebra was created specifically for the type of projects I want to run. It is easy enough to start, for kids. I find its specialization to be a limiting factor, though - it would be nice if kids saw

Re: [Edu-sig] PDF geometry animations (ReportLab?) - and turtle module

2009-05-17 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Gregor Lingl gregor.li...@aon.at wrote: kirby urner schrieb For those of you looking for a way cool use of Python's ReportLab, I so far have permission to release this one example PDF flipbook showing how geometry concepts might be communicated using this

Re: [Edu-sig] PDF geometry animations (ReportLab?) - and turtle module

2009-05-18 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:53 AM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Fuller tending to accept any contribution (he'd circulate a box after some lectures, take home a pile of student papers) and then toss the results to the world as leaflets out the back of his choo choo, while running

Re: [Edu-sig] [IAEP] F.Y.I.: this month's cover story for CACM is OLPC: Vision vs. Reality (cross posted)

2009-05-20 Thread Edward Cherlin
I wrote a reply on the Web site. It is being reviewed by the editors before posting. http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2009/6/28497-one-laptop-per-child-vision-vs-reality/comments On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:56 AM, gerry_lowry (alliston ontario canada) gerry.lo...@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com

[Edu-sig] Overloading (was Re: more on variable names)

2009-05-26 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I filed the following quick comment after viewing a six minute tutorial on variables and values at ShowMeDo. The video: http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/video?name=6950010fromSeriesID=695 My comment: idea that

Re: [Edu-sig] Hello World! Computer Programming for Kids and Other Beginners

2009-06-28 Thread Edward Cherlin
I have to write up some lessons on how to start programming in Python in the Sugar version of Turtle Art, where there are two programmable tiles. One accepts a Python expression, and the other reads in a Python file. The easiest Hello, World program in Turtle Art uses the Print tile. Just type in

Re: [Edu-sig] python publication

2009-07-12 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 11:08 AM, robertorobert...@gmail.com wrote: hello, i have managed an introductory math and programming course, mainly based on python for the programming side; participants came strictly from high schools; i'd like to share the results with the community and collect

Re: [Edu-sig] turtle in education

2009-07-28 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:28 AM, robertorobert...@gmail.com wrote: hello, i am looking for materials, experiences etc. about using turtle module in math, physics and related for middle or high school students http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Gravity.odt Alan Kay's third-grade gravity lesson

Re: [Edu-sig] poking some dying logs...

2009-08-02 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:36 PM, kirby urnerkirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to make another plug for including this title on the edu-sig home page: http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html Ian thought it was too much a hybrid of CS and math, not an elegant amalgamation, though I

Re: [Edu-sig] turtle in education

2009-08-28 Thread Edward Cherlin
We need to make sure that people in various programs can find such resources. I will Wiki your repository at Earth Treasury and Sugar Labs, and I am copying this to Stacy Reed, the Librarian Chick. Where else can we list this and other resources? Please be careful of CCs if you reply to this

Re: [Edu-sig] Significant drop in CS interest in high schools

2009-08-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
I don't know the details on this issue, but I am aware of several more general problems. One is that nobody knows what CS is or should be. I got into it before there were CS departments, from Foundations of Mathematics, specifically Incompleteness and Undecidability and Non-Standard Arithmetic.

Re: [Edu-sig] Significant drop in CS interest in high schools

2009-08-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:27 AM, kirby urnerkirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Edward Cherlinecher...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I am working on how to teach CS ideas in third grade using tools such as Etoys Smalltalk, UCBLogo, and Turtle Art, all of which are

Re: [Edu-sig] thought re graphing calculators ...

2009-09-27 Thread Edward Cherlin
2009/9/27 Charles Cossé cco...@gmail.com: Hi, this has probably been discussed to death already, but maybe not: The point at which fancy graphing calculators become necessary (ie as in one's student career) is the point at which the calculator should be abandoned and Python employed.  Just a

Re: [Edu-sig] thought re graphing calculators ...

2009-09-28 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:49 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/28 Brian Blais bbl...@bryant.edu: trim Just a month ago, a friend of mine who homeschools her children was asking me about graphing calculators.  Apparently the math curriculum she uses has a number of

Re: [Edu-sig] thought re graphing calculators ...

2009-09-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:13 PM, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Since say 5000 years humans have devoloped the concepts of numbers, calculations and algebra. They have discovered, that calculations obey certain algebraic laws like a*(b+c) = a*b + a*c and the like. Finally they have

[Edu-sig] Geometries, irrationals (was Re: thought re graphing calculators ...)

2009-09-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
Could we develop a geometry which does not depend on the metaphysics of real numbers, continuity, infinity?  Or still have infinity, but make it more like Poincare's, a direction (like a time axis). There are vast realms of such geometries, going back to projective geometries over finite

Re: [Edu-sig] thought re graphing calculators ...

2009-09-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Brian Blais bbl...@bryant.edu wrote: On Sep 28, 2009, at 16:30 , Gregor Lingl wrote: Brian Blais schrieb:  However, as I think about it, I can not think of a single problem where I *needed* the graphic calculator, or where it gave me more insight than I

Re: [Edu-sig] Elevator Demo for Python

2009-10-05 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Phil Wagner pwag...@hightechhigh.org wrote: Often I am asked for a quick demonstration about the power of Python, sometimes for people with no computer science background. What can I show them that doesn't take too much time but gets the point across that Python

Re: [Edu-sig] recent curriculum writing (Urner)

2009-10-15 Thread Edward Cherlin
Computer languages in use can be as different as FORTH, APL, LISP, Smalltalk, C++, Python...In principle, any symbolic system that is Turing-complete can serve as a general-purpose computer programming language with a suitable compiler or interpreter. Jean Sammet wrote a summary of all computer

Re: [Edu-sig] Summarizing some threads (KIrby again)...

2009-10-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
Yes, you're on the right track. All of schooling is based on medieval metaphors (such as the lecture, originally for purposes of dictation in the days before printing) and the history of thought, instead of the logic of the subject matter or of the reasons for learning anything. We are still

[Edu-sig] Fwd: Donald McIntyre

2009-10-27 Thread Edward Cherlin
FYI. Much loved in the APL community. -- Forwarded message -- From: Curtis A. Jones curtis_jo...@ieee.org Date: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:34 Subject: Fwd: Donald McIntyre To: apl...@listserv.acm.org -- Forwarded message -- From: Roger Hui rhui...@shaw.ca Date: Oct

Re: [Edu-sig] Python for Philosophers

2009-10-28 Thread Edward Cherlin
My degree is in Math and Philosophy. Most of the Foundations of Mathematics courses were in the Philosophy department back then, including a lot of what turned into Computer Science. On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:25, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I've been seeing some conversations aimed

Re: [Edu-sig] more card play

2009-11-02 Thread Edward Cherlin
Cards: You are right on the merits for combinatory math, but you will run into strong cultural aversions. Reverse string in place with new iterator: There is a great deal more of this. In the 1980s Hewlett-Packard built an APL system around such transformations in place and lazy evaluation rules,

Re: [Edu-sig] more card play

2009-11-03 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 22:20, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:27:35 PST, Edward Cherlin writes: Cards: You are right on the merits for combinatory math, but you will run into strong cultural aversions. Why?  Especially when _dice_ seem

Re: [Edu-sig] more card play

2009-11-03 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 19:44, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:37:54 PST, Edward Cherlin writes: On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 22:20, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:27:35 PST, Edward Cherlin writes: Cards: You

Re: [Edu-sig] teaching python using turtle module

2009-11-29 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:34, Brian Blais bbl...@bryant.edu wrote: Hello, I was just playing with the turtle module, and thought it was an interesting way to augment the introduction to python (I teach college students, who haven't had any programming).  It's a great way to introduce

[Edu-sig] New APL

2009-12-06 Thread Edward Cherlin
An old friend, ex-IBM, ex-Wall Street, is working on a new Open Source APL which he and I intend to get into the Sugar education software for OLPC. I can't tell you any more than that until he puts code out for the public to test. -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin

Re: [Edu-sig] Pascal's Triangle (in 2.6)

2010-01-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
Pascal's Triangle mod 2 is also a Sierpinski gasket fractal. This is one of the Python examples in Pippy in the Sugar education software. # Sierpinski triangles import sys size = 3 modulus = 2 lines = modulus**size vector = [1] for i in range(1,lines+1): vector.insert(0,0) vector.append(0)

Re: [Edu-sig] [Math 2.0] Math Thinking community, meet Math 2.0 network! February 24th webinar

2010-02-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
I've been wishing for this. Thanks. I signed up for the mailing list. It turns out that the Java Web Start software is not available for Debian or Ubuntu Linux, so I can't join in tonight. *{%{[ On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:43, Maria Droujkova droujk...@gmail.com wrote: Wednesday, February

Re: [Edu-sig] Feb 24 cs-in-math Elluminate meeting (Math 2.0)

2010-02-25 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 19:33, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I briefly blogged about our meeting last night. http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2010/02/learning-on-line.html Thank you. I posted Ed Cherlin's Chinese + Arabic sig Japanese/Urdu in language, but you are correct as to

Re: [Edu-sig] Method / Functions - What are the differences?

2010-03-10 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:45, John Posner jjpos...@optimum.net wrote: [ cross-posting to edu-sig ] Bruno (and anyone else interested) -- As I promised/threatened, here's the *start* of a write-up on properties, aimed at non-advanced Python programmers:  

Re: [Edu-sig] Computer Science For Kids Book Announcement

2010-03-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
Not bad. There are things we can improve. For example, a variable is less like a nickname referring to one thing than a pronoun that can refer to different things each time it is used. I do not have time today for a complete review, but I would like to do it sometime soon, in part because I have a

Re: [Edu-sig] Python projects for CS1

2010-03-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
crediting of an interloper (something of a maverick that guy -- never met him). I mention all this by way of background, in that I cite him in my Notes for Teachers for Pycon 2009 re spiraling FYI: http://www.4dsolutions.net/presentations/py4t_notes.pdf On another note, thanks to Edward

Re: [Edu-sig] using Python as a calculator

2010-04-09 Thread Edward Cherlin
[sigh] Do math tables in a math array language. degrees =. i. 91 NB. 0..90 radians =. degrees * o. % 180 table =. |: degrees, 1 2 3 o./ radians where =. is assignment i. creates a list of consecutive numbers starting at 0. NB. is the comment marker o. x is pi times x % x is reciprocal of x,

Re: [Edu-sig] using Python as a calculator

2010-04-11 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 09:33, Christian Mascher christian.masc...@gmx.de wrote: Edward Cherlin wrote: [sigh] Do math tables in a math array language. degrees =. i. 91  NB. 0..90 radians =. degrees * o. % 180 table =. |: degrees, 1 2 3 o./ radians Sorry, I don't know J (Kirby does

Re: [Edu-sig] using Python as a calculator

2010-04-11 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 17:51, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, I don't know J (Kirby does), but this is exactly the reason I prefer Python. Readability counts (for me). That's what they said to Fibonacci when he tried to explain why Arabic numerals were better for math than

Re: [Edu-sig] Why Python?

2010-04-11 Thread Edward Cherlin
know that inside my head I am not thinking about so general a situation, but I think I could often communicate it better. Andy On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 6:50 PM, David MacQuigg macqu...@ece.arizona.edu wrote: Edward Cherlin wrote: On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 09:33, Christian Mascher

Re: [Edu-sig] [ANNC] pynguin-0.7 (python turtle graphics application)

2010-04-11 Thread Edward Cherlin
2010/4/11 Lee Harr miss...@hotmail.com: Pynguin is a python-based turtle graphics application.     It combines an editor, interactive interpreter, and     graphics display area. It is meant to be an easy environment for introducing     some programming concepts to beginning programmers.

Re: [Edu-sig] [ANNC] pynguin-0.7 (python turtle graphics application)

2010-04-11 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 21:52, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/4/11 Lee Harr miss...@hotmail.com: Pynguin is a python-based turtle graphics application.     It combines an editor, interactive interpreter, and     graphics display area. I like the idea of using turtles to plot

Re: [Edu-sig] rewriting examples in python

2010-04-15 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:36, roberto robert...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: I am more interested in reimplementing such examples in Turtle Art, and in having a module to translate to Python automatically. Since TA implements each

Re: [Edu-sig] rewriting examples in python

2010-04-25 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:11, roberto robert...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:26 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:36, roberto robert...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: I am more

Re: [Edu-sig] open source admin in academia? (editorial)

2010-07-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
It frequently happens that the Computer Science Dept. uses Free Software for almost everything, and everybody else uses proprietary software. CS can't talk to the others effectively, because they are just geeks. I have more hope for elementary schools. There are exceptions, such as Moodle. On

Re: [Edu-sig] Directed Graphs data to analyze the World Cup

2010-07-19 Thread Edward Cherlin
I think that learning to analyze sports statistics is the best possible introduction to the math, which can then be applied to politics. That plus poker was Nate Silver's path to starting FiveThirtyEight.com. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 20:02, Daniel Ajoy da.a...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Edu-sig] open source admin in academia? (editorial)

2010-07-20 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 04:34, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I like to see universities taking the lead in some way... (they call it non-commercial), eating their own dog food. Same thing with hospitals.  They seem to not want to develop much inhouse, even for research -- or maybe

Re: [Edu-sig] Mosaics using Python...

2011-03-03 Thread Edward Cherlin
Your generalized Fibonacci sequences and generalized Pascal's Triangles are linear combinations of the standard sequences and triangles with shifts. m,n,m+n,m+2n, 2m+3n... is the sum of the sequences m,0,m,m,2m,... 0,n,n,2n,3n,... and similarly, the coefficients of x, y, and z in this triangle

Re: [Edu-sig] PSF Brochure - call for submissions

2011-03-13 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 21:36, Vern Ceder vce...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, In chatting with Charlie Clark and others today, it came up that we aren't doing as much as we might to promote the successes of Python in education. Do you have the OLPC XO Sugar software on your list? Almost all

[Edu-sig] Too simple (was Re: Interesting gotcha)

2011-03-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
Einstein probably did not say, Everything should be made as simple as possible, but _no simpler_. However, somebody did, and somebody was right. One of the biggest problems in teaching programming is the constant pretense that we are not doing complicated mathematics, and the resulting attempt to

[Edu-sig] The Undiscoverable (was Re: Interesting gotcha)

2011-03-30 Thread Edward Cherlin
I am a big fan of discovery learning, and thus down on anything that interferes with discovery. I practice what I call defensive documentation on such problems, as do some others. See for example, The C Puzzle Book, and my Sugar Labs page http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable We will

Re: [Edu-sig] demented Python...

2011-04-02 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 14:16, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: In calling something demented I'm coming off the namespace used around genres of cartoon. Cartoons I'd consider demented: Pinky and the Brain and their hosts, the Animaniacs Ren and Stimpy Teenage Aqua Hunger Force

Re: [Edu-sig] Platonic / Archimedean / Catalan Solids in Blender

2011-04-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
2011/4/22 Lee Harr miss...@hotmail.com: Hi; I know some of you like exploring geometry with Python. The latest Blender 2.57 includes a python add-on for generating a huge list of different types of geometric solids. This is huge progress. Back when Tron was made, there was only one

Re: [Edu-sig] More cogitations on group theory...

2011-05-15 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 04:12, kirby urner kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Groupoids, categories, rings (clock time), fields (modular arithmetic), vector spaces, and algebras require a bit more thought, but I am sure that they can be done. I mentioned a few Lie Groups, but I omitted the name.

Re: [Edu-sig] superformula, generators

2011-05-21 Thread Edward Cherlin
There are a great many such parametric formulae, such as hypergeometric sequences and their sums. You can get very interesting results by plotting the roots of a polynomial as the coefficients vary, without ever letting two roots coincide. It is possible to generate all knots and links in this

Re: [Edu-sig] (egyptian fractions...) the turtle part: chaos.py

2011-06-01 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 17:52, Gregor Lingl gregor.li...@aon.at wrote: Am 01.06.2011 22:52, schrieb kirby urner: Hey Jeff, your question about controlling the turtle's screen might have been just the ticket in my attempts to control chaos, namely G. Lingl's chaos.py, which demonstrates

Re: [Edu-sig] Anyone interested in discussing the turtle module?

2011-06-01 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 16:59, Jeff Elkner j...@elkner.net wrote: Hi All, I'm working on an introductory CS book using Python with the turtle module, Under what license? Can we talk about using Turtle Art in Sugar as a starting point? it can call Python functions assigned to blocks,

Re: [Edu-sig] (egyptian fractions...) the turtle part: chaos.py

2011-06-01 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 18:56, Kirby Urner kur...@oreillyschool.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Baseball stats and turtles? That's something I have been wishing for. I think that the best way to interest children in probability and statistics

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