Guys - We ended this thread yesterday. Several times. Please no more
posts on this topic. Its been covered in exquisite detail :-)
73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft Lisa Moderator - Really!
---
www.elecraft.com
On 8/21/2011 3:56 AM, John Ragle wrote:
An excellent suggestion! Many manufacturers
Hmmm - Typing too fast. I meant 'List' Moderator.
Don't tell Lisa!
73, Eric
---
www.elecraft.com
On 8/22/2011 4:14 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
Guys - We ended this thread yesterday. Several times. Please no more
posts on this topic. Its been covered in exquisite detail :-)
I would like to suggest that the good folks at Elecraft consider making
paper manuals an optional item at check out time. It could save a little
money and paper, and some like myself are more inclined to download the
info in any case. Especially with radios that are evolving, like the K3,
An excellent suggestion! Many manufacturers already do this, e.g. my
Samsung Galaxy Tab comes with a bare piece of getting started paper,
but on-line there is an excellent 144 page (3.2 MB) users' manual.
I have owned or now own several pieces of Elecraft hardware, and in no
case have I ever
On 21 Aug 2011 at 6:56, John Ragle wrote:
I would like to suggest that the good folks at Elecraft consider
making paper manuals an optional item at check out time.
It may suit some, but I cannot see how you could sensibly build a K2
from an electronic manual. You would have to print out
Not to mention that fraction of builders who -do not- have internet
access. Or will be in a location without internet for an interval of
time, but want to have reference material available... for example,
when on a DXpedition.
Maybe it could be an ordering option, with a modest discount
I respectfully disagree.
If I had been presented a URL or pdf manual for my stuffed K2/100 kit
rather than the paper manuals I would have sold the kit. Looking through
my K2 manual right now there is a check mark next to every construction
step. When building the rig, I didn't mark the manual
The paper manuals are spiral bound and quality printed on both sides of the
page. I like the idea of saving but not this one. When it comes time to
sell in ten years at least I will have the manual to pass on.
73 Doug EI2CN
If I may add one comment please, someone may have a fix for it, to save untold
hours of effort.
With a PDF for a manual, not a printed copy, just the pdf, on a building bench,
what can be used to
make notes in the construction or on the schematic, or in the manual, to note
the test results.??
The original suggestion was to make the paper manual 'optional' at time of
order and although I do not know what price reduction this would make, it
would be good for some folks...as long as they do read the PDF manual BEFORE
asking questions that could easily be answered by reading the manual in
While green is good, I do not think an assembly or operator's manual
in electronic form is practical.
It would only result in most owners printing the manual locally, and
that nullifies the overall greenness.
It is more costly for individuals to print locally than for the manual
to be printed
'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A modest proposal...
The paper manuals are spiral bound and quality printed on both sides of
the
page. I like the idea of saving but not this one. When it comes time
to
sell in ten years at least I will have the manual to pass
I rely completely on PDF manuals. I can usually find answers to questions
through a quick and simple search. The idea to offer it as an option is green.
I had my K3 factory built.
I would always want a manual if I were building, e.g., KX1, and my K2 and all
it's options!
Bill
K9YEQ
Gary
Personally, I don't see how that suggestion saves anyone anything. The
great majority of those who order anything in kit or modular form are
going to want a printed manual, and I'd bet that at least half of any
buyer of an assembled item is going to want one as well, especially if
it is
Actually, although the manuals are all available in the most recently updated
versions as PDFs on the web site, I think another format would even be superior
(in addition though, not replacing PDFs or printed).
The other format is a nice interactive web site -- not merely a PDF called up
with
For now, we'll continue to send printed manuals with the kits and make
the .pdf versions available for download.
However, if you find that you don't use the paper manual, and you have
a green streak (like me!), feel free to return it so we can reuse it.
Meanwhile, I'll ask Lisa and Eric if
I would suggest that there is a deduct on the price if there is no
manual. But I bet if you start to remove stuff that is standard in your
BOM that your costs will go up.
In my original order I thought that I had to purchase a manual
separately and this was an expensive option. I was
An answer by someone who understands manufacturing and a standard BOM.
~73
Don
KD8NNU
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 12:46 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
Personally, I don't see how that suggestion saves anyone anything.
The great majority of those who order anything in kit or modular form
are going
Another aspect of printed manuals is that the one that comes with the radio
is the one that matches that radio. With products that are so well updated
as Elecraft does it may be a bit of a problem several years after a radio is
bought/built determining just what version of online documents is
of the minimal excuses for
manuals that come with them now.
Matthew Pitts
N8OHU
--- On Sun, 8/21/11, R. Kevin Stover rksto...@mchsi.com wrote:
From: R. Kevin Stover rksto...@mchsi.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A modest proposal...
To: tpcj1...@crocker.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Sunday, August 21
It should be possible to just treat them like any other option, such
as filters or tuners. They would need a part number.
If a customer wants one, they would order and pay for it. If not,
they would not have to buy for something that they didn't need. In my
case, I would need them, as I
Wayne et al,
I find that I never refer to the manuals that came with my Elecraft equipment. I
keep a PDF copy of the latest version and refer to it when I need to.
Perhaps you could include a Getting Started page or two with the factory built
units that included a simple power and antenna
book
now who needs a manual anyway? ;-))
73, Olli - DH8BQA
- Original Message -
From: n...@n5ge.com
To: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A modest proposal...
Wayne et al,
I
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you are talking about catalog web
sites. If you are, you have made the right choice.
Having worked in the printing and software development business, I can see both
sides of the issue. Catalogs must be updated constantly to reflect changes in
who needs a manual anyway? ;-))
73, Olli - DH8BQA
- Original Message -
From: n...@n5ge.com
To: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A modest proposal...
Wayne et al,
I find
Actually the PDF format has the ability to allow comments to be added to
the PDF but this would have to be turned on by Elecraft as it is currently
turned off, at least on the documents that I have looked at.
Personally I think it is always best to give the consumer the option. That
way we can
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote:
...The other format is a nice interactive web site -- not merely a PDF
called up with your browser but an interactive structured web application
that includes the technical material and descriptions...
Well,
While I doubt Elecraft will give up printed manuals ... I'm in the
printed manual camp.
1. PDF's are great, at times, for example you can search them. For
real use, I need a book with pages to turn and a place to stick
post-its. I know you can do that in a PDF, but it's not the same.
2. I
: Gary Gregory garyvk...@gmail.com
To: Doug Turnbull turnb...@net1.ie
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A modest proposal...
The original suggestion was to make the paper manual 'optional' at time
Jim,
You printed the manual locally, and if you count the ink and paper, that
cost you more than ordering an extra manual from Elecraft - and unless
you went to the trouble of printing it double-sided (and no sheets stuck
together in the process), you had twice as many sheets of paper. I
Elecraft is doing it right -
don't monkey with what works and works quite well.
Amen to that, Don!
That applies to ALL the products, not just the manuals, IMHO.
I'd hate to see my Elecraft stuff 'fiddled to death'.
Ralph, VE7XF
__
This thread and its variants have been ended.
Folks, This thread has way exceeded the posting volume limit. Please self limit
and do not reply to high volume threads like this in the future. It is not
necessary to argue out every deatil on OT threads.
73,
Eric WA6HHQ
List Moderator
-
From: Gary Gregorygaryvk...@gmail.com
To: Doug Turnbullturnb...@net1.ie
Cc:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A modest proposal...
The original suggestion was to make the paper manual 'optional' at time
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