Re: [Elecraft] Fault on KPA500 after 300w

[Alan Lambert]

Good news!  I swapped out the 1ft jumper for a 20ft jumper and moved the
balun problem solved!  Thanks all for you help!

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 7:19 AM, Alan Lambert  wrote:

> I recently acquired a KP500/KAT500 for use with my Kx3/KXPa100. I know
> the person I bought it from well and I am 99.% sure it is not an
> issue with the amp or tuner.
>
>  I was making some notes (a chart) for input to output power levels,
> mostly just to ‘get to know’ the amp a little better.  At the time of
> these issues, I was on 80m SSB and the Kat500 was showing 1:1 / 1.2:1.
>
> The output watts  I have listed below are not ‘actuals’ I’m just
> recalling them from memory so may be off a few watts.
>
> I set the Kx3 to 8w and called “test test test 1 2 3  kn4bbc” I showed
> ~80w out with a 1:1 to 1.2:1 SWR.. GREAT!
>
> Moved up to 9w and got 100w out… same SWR – more Great!
>
> 10w I got 175w same SWR – sill looking good!
>
> 11w I got  250w same SWR – Awesome!
>
> Now this is where the problem comes in.
>
> I set to 12w… As I starting calling my “test test test 1 2 3…”  At
> first things looked great..I was getting 300w same SWR  but then
> suddenly I get high SWR followed by  “High Refl” on the KPA5, fault
> light comes on and I get warning tones.
>
> So I tuned the KAT500 again and tried the whole thing again with the
> same results.
>
> Gear wise:
>
> KX3/Kxpa100 with ATU disabled > KPA500/KAT500.
>
> Ant1 on Kat500  >  1ft LMR400 jumper >  1:1 ATU Current Balun  > 225
> feet of 450 ladder line > a ½ wave 80m center fed, inverted V  dipole.
> Center point is ~90 feet off ground.
>
> The Balun is a Balun Designs Model 1161
>
> The shack is on 2nd floor in middle of the house and has no exterior walls.
>
> The ladder line starts in the shack, there is about 2 feet  of in the
> shack then enters my attic space thru and opening in a sheetrock wall.
> Inside the attic space there is a long slow, wide loop about 50 feet
> long. I was careful to keep it away from metals and it does not cross
> itself however some of it  is lying on top of plywood. From there its
> exits the house in the ridge cap at the tip top of the roof at about
> (40 feet off ground)  The ladder line then hangs from a rope that runs
> from the eve to the tree line about 175 feet away which is where the
> center point of the dipole is.  In short 175 feet outside 50 feet
> inside.
>
>
> Ideas of what my problem might be?
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Fault on KPA500 after 300w

[Chris Hallinan]

I have experienced the exact same issue, and I posted about it here.  In my
case, it was being caused by my MFJ remote auto tuner.  I had also
suspected an Alpha Delta surge suppressor that was outside the shack prior
to cable entry, and I had removed that.  The MFJ had a relay clicking on
every key down.

Something is reacting to the high power, almost certainly related to high
SWR on the line as well. High SWR can produce some very high voltages at
standing wave voltage peaks along the transmission line.  You may be
experiencing an arching somewhere.If the balun saturates (again due to
power and high SWR combination) that could also trigger the amp shutdown.
Probably not your issue since that Balun should handle 5KW but I opened
mine up to make sure it wasn't full of water or to look for other visible
signs of arching, etc. Since yours in inside, likely it's ok, but you can't
rule it out.

I'm not 100% convinced I've resolved my issue - I sent the tuner back to
MFJ to exchange it, and I'm using an old Dentron 2KW manual tuner and
haven't had an issue with that setup.  If you have access to a manual
tuner, try that.  You might also try adding 1/8 wavelength of 450-ohm line
to the shack end to "relocate" the offending high voltage node.  A long
shot, but you're pretty much stuck with a trial and error process of
problem resolution.

73 de K1AY
Chris



On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 7:19 AM, Alan Lambert  wrote:

> I recently acquired a KP500/KAT500 for use with my Kx3/KXPa100. I know
> the person I bought it from well and I am 99.% sure it is not an
> issue with the amp or tuner.
>
>  I was making some notes (a chart) for input to output power levels,
> mostly just to ‘get to know’ the amp a little better.  At the time of
> these issues, I was on 80m SSB and the Kat500 was showing 1:1 / 1.2:1.
>
> The output watts  I have listed below are not ‘actuals’ I’m just
> recalling them from memory so may be off a few watts.
>
> I set the Kx3 to 8w and called “test test test 1 2 3  kn4bbc” I showed
> ~80w out with a 1:1 to 1.2:1 SWR.. GREAT!
>
> Moved up to 9w and got 100w out… same SWR – more Great!
>
> 10w I got 175w same SWR – sill looking good!
>
> 11w I got  250w same SWR – Awesome!
>
> Now this is where the problem comes in.
>
> I set to 12w… As I starting calling my “test test test 1 2 3…”  At
> first things looked great..I was getting 300w same SWR  but then
> suddenly I get high SWR followed by  “High Refl” on the KPA5, fault
> light comes on and I get warning tones.
>
> So I tuned the KAT500 again and tried the whole thing again with the
> same results.
>
> Gear wise:
>
> KX3/Kxpa100 with ATU disabled > KPA500/KAT500.
>
> Ant1 on Kat500  >  1ft LMR400 jumper >  1:1 ATU Current Balun  > 225
> feet of 450 ladder line > a ½ wave 80m center fed, inverted V  dipole.
> Center point is ~90 feet off ground.
>
> The Balun is a Balun Designs Model 1161
>
> The shack is on 2nd floor in middle of the house and has no exterior walls.
>
> The ladder line starts in the shack, there is about 2 feet  of in the
> shack then enters my attic space thru and opening in a sheetrock wall.
> Inside the attic space there is a long slow, wide loop about 50 feet
> long. I was careful to keep it away from metals and it does not cross
> itself however some of it  is lying on top of plywood. From there its
> exits the house in the ridge cap at the tip top of the roof at about
> (40 feet off ground)  The ladder line then hangs from a rope that runs
> from the eve to the tree line about 175 feet away which is where the
> center point of the dipole is.  In short 175 feet outside 50 feet
> inside.
>
>
> Ideas of what my problem might be?
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to challi...@gmail.com




-- 
Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Fault on KPA500 after 300w

[Brian D]

I had a similar problem but only on 160m. would work fine for a few minutes
at full power, fine at reduced power. After much hair tearing discovered
that it was a voltage transformer in an external coupler heating up and
losing inductance, effectively shorting the feeder. Cured by using a larger
toroid in the coupler.

Brian G3VGZ



"j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:

> A dummy load may verify that the KPA/KAT are working properly. I am
> guessing that something is arcing in your antenna system. Perhaps water
> ingress. Have you run high power into it with a different amp?
> 
> John KK9A
> 
> 
> 
> On March 12 Alan Lambert wrote:
> 
> I recently acquired a KP500/KAT500 for use with my Kx3/KXPa100. I know the
> person I bought it from well and I am 99.% sure it is not an issue
> with the amp or tuner.
> 
>  I was making some notes (a chart) for input to output power levels,
> mostly just to ‘get to know’ the amp a little better.  At the time of
> these issues, I was on 80m SSB and the Kat500 was showing 1:1 / 1.2:1.
> 
> The output watts  I have listed below are not ‘actuals’ I’m just recalling
> them from memory so may be off a few watts.
> 
> I set the Kx3 to 8w and called “test test test 1 2 3  kn4bbc” I showed
> ~80w out with a 1:1 to 1.2:1 SWR.. GREAT!
> 
> Moved up to 9w and got 100w out… same SWR – more Great!
> 
> 10w I got 175w same SWR – sill looking good!
> 
> 11w I got  250w same SWR – Awesome!
> 
> Now this is where the problem comes in.
> 
> I set to 12w… As I starting calling my “test test test 1 2 3…”  At first
> things looked great..I was getting 300w same SWR  but then suddenly I get
> high SWR followed by  “High Refl” on the KPA5, fault light comes on and I
> get warning tones.
> 
> So I tuned the KAT500 again and tried the whole thing again with the same
> results.
> 
> Gear wise:
> 
> KX3/Kxpa100 with ATU disabled > KPA500/KAT500.
> 
> Ant1 on Kat500  >  1ft LMR400 jumper >  1:1 ATU Current Balun  > 225 feet
> of 450 ladder line > a ½ wave 80m center fed, inverted V  dipole. Center
> point is ~90 feet off ground.
> 
> The Balun is a Balun Designs Model 1161
> 
> The shack is on 2nd floor in middle of the house and has no exterior
> walls.
> 
> The ladder line starts in the shack, there is about 2 feet  of in the
> shack then enters my attic space thru and opening in a sheetrock wall.
> Inside the attic space there is a long slow, wide loop about 50 feet long.
> I was careful to keep it away from metals and it does not cross itself
> however some of it  is lying on top of plywood. From there its exits the
> house in the ridge cap at the tip top of the roof at about (40 feet off
> ground)  The ladder line then hangs from a rope that runs from the eve to
> the tree line about 175 feet away which is where the center point of the
> dipole is.  In short 175 feet outside 50 feet inside.
> 
> 
> Ideas of what my problem might be?
> 
> __ Elecraft
> mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> gro...@planet3.freeuk.co.uk
> 


-- 
Brian D
G3VGZ  YarmEngland
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

[Elecraft] Fault on KPA500 after 300w

[j...@kk9a.com]

A dummy load may verify that the KPA/KAT are working properly. I am
guessing that something is arcing in your antenna system. Perhaps water
ingress. Have you run high power into it with a different amp?

John KK9A



On March 12 Alan Lambert wrote:

I recently acquired a KP500/KAT500 for use with my Kx3/KXPa100. I know
the person I bought it from well and I am 99.% sure it is not an
issue with the amp or tuner.

 I was making some notes (a chart) for input to output power levels,
mostly just to ‘get to know’ the amp a little better.  At the time of
these issues, I was on 80m SSB and the Kat500 was showing 1:1 / 1.2:1.

The output watts  I have listed below are not ‘actuals’ I’m just
recalling them from memory so may be off a few watts.

I set the Kx3 to 8w and called “test test test 1 2 3  kn4bbc” I showed
~80w out with a 1:1 to 1.2:1 SWR.. GREAT!

Moved up to 9w and got 100w out… same SWR – more Great!

10w I got 175w same SWR – sill looking good!

11w I got  250w same SWR – Awesome!

Now this is where the problem comes in.

I set to 12w… As I starting calling my “test test test 1 2 3…”  At
first things looked great..I was getting 300w same SWR  but then
suddenly I get high SWR followed by  “High Refl” on the KPA5, fault
light comes on and I get warning tones.

So I tuned the KAT500 again and tried the whole thing again with the
same results.

Gear wise:

KX3/Kxpa100 with ATU disabled > KPA500/KAT500.

Ant1 on Kat500  >  1ft LMR400 jumper >  1:1 ATU Current Balun  > 225
feet of 450 ladder line > a ½ wave 80m center fed, inverted V  dipole.
Center point is ~90 feet off ground.

The Balun is a Balun Designs Model 1161

The shack is on 2nd floor in middle of the house and has no exterior walls.

The ladder line starts in the shack, there is about 2 feet  of in the
shack then enters my attic space thru and opening in a sheetrock wall.
Inside the attic space there is a long slow, wide loop about 50 feet
long. I was careful to keep it away from metals and it does not cross
itself however some of it  is lying on top of plywood. From there its
exits the house in the ridge cap at the tip top of the roof at about
(40 feet off ground)  The ladder line then hangs from a rope that runs
from the eve to the tree line about 175 feet away which is where the
center point of the dipole is.  In short 175 feet outside 50 feet
inside.


Ideas of what my problem might be?

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

[Elecraft] Fault on KPA500 after 300w

[Alan Lambert]

I recently acquired a KP500/KAT500 for use with my Kx3/KXPa100. I know
the person I bought it from well and I am 99.% sure it is not an
issue with the amp or tuner.

 I was making some notes (a chart) for input to output power levels,
mostly just to ‘get to know’ the amp a little better.  At the time of
these issues, I was on 80m SSB and the Kat500 was showing 1:1 / 1.2:1.

The output watts  I have listed below are not ‘actuals’ I’m just
recalling them from memory so may be off a few watts.

I set the Kx3 to 8w and called “test test test 1 2 3  kn4bbc” I showed
~80w out with a 1:1 to 1.2:1 SWR.. GREAT!

Moved up to 9w and got 100w out… same SWR – more Great!

10w I got 175w same SWR – sill looking good!

11w I got  250w same SWR – Awesome!

Now this is where the problem comes in.

I set to 12w… As I starting calling my “test test test 1 2 3…”  At
first things looked great..I was getting 300w same SWR  but then
suddenly I get high SWR followed by  “High Refl” on the KPA5, fault
light comes on and I get warning tones.

So I tuned the KAT500 again and tried the whole thing again with the
same results.

Gear wise:

KX3/Kxpa100 with ATU disabled > KPA500/KAT500.

Ant1 on Kat500  >  1ft LMR400 jumper >  1:1 ATU Current Balun  > 225
feet of 450 ladder line > a ½ wave 80m center fed, inverted V  dipole.
Center point is ~90 feet off ground.

The Balun is a Balun Designs Model 1161

The shack is on 2nd floor in middle of the house and has no exterior walls.

The ladder line starts in the shack, there is about 2 feet  of in the
shack then enters my attic space thru and opening in a sheetrock wall.
Inside the attic space there is a long slow, wide loop about 50 feet
long. I was careful to keep it away from metals and it does not cross
itself however some of it  is lying on top of plywood. From there its
exits the house in the ridge cap at the tip top of the roof at about
(40 feet off ground)  The ladder line then hangs from a rope that runs
from the eve to the tree line about 175 feet away which is where the
center point of the dipole is.  In short 175 feet outside 50 feet
inside.


Ideas of what my problem might be?
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com