Re: [EM] Why I Think Sincere Cycles are Extremely Unlikely in Practice

2010-11-13 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
robert bristow-johnson wrote: On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Juho wrote: Sincere cycles are probably not very common in real elections. There have already been many ranked ballot based elections with reasonably sincere ballots, but at least I'm not aware of any top level cycles in them. i

[EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Sand W
Here are the results on an actual election: http://www.demochoice.org/dcresults.php?poll=OakMayortype=table Perata (or maybe someone in his camp) accuses the other candidates of gaming the system by promoting each other as 2nd choices. Some challengers tried to do that to IRV-leader Kriss

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Nov 13, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Dave Ketchum wrote: This reads as a valuable demonstration of the value of Condorcet. it would be even more informative if, in the semi-final round between Perata, Quan, and Kaplan, we knew how the 2nd-choice votes of Perata and Quan voters broke down.

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Nov 13, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Bob Richard wrote: On 11/13/2010 8:09 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Sand W wrote: Here are the results on an actual election: http://www.demochoice.org/dcresults.php?poll=OakMayortype=table http://www.demochoice.org/dcresults.php?poll=OakMayortype=table

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Bob Richard
I believe that the DemoChoice numbers you cite are from the first results file, released on November 5. The data below was released on November 10 and includes nearly all of the ballots (although the audit hasn't started yet). You are correct that my totals for Quan and Perata should match the

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On Nov 13, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Bob Richard wrote: I believe that the DemoChoice numbers you cite are from the first results file, released on November 5. The data below was released on November 10 and includes nearly all of the ballots (although the audit hasn't started yet). You are

[EM] My Favorite Deterministic Condorcet Efficient Method: TACC

2010-11-13 Thread C.Benham
Regarding my example 31: AB 32: BC 37: CA Forest: I've come around to the belief that most Condorcet cycles in ordinary elections are artificial, so chances are that this cycle was created from the burial of B by the C faction. Giving C the win only rewards this manipulation. Chris: I

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Bob Richard wrote: On 11/13/2010 8:09 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Sand W wrote: Here are the results on an actual election: http://www.demochoice.org/dcresults.php?poll=OakMayortype=table http://www.demochoice.org/dcresults.php?poll=OakMayortype=table Perata (or maybe someone in his

Re: [EM] My Favorite Deterministic Condorcet Efficient Method: TACC

2010-11-13 Thread fsimmons
- Original Message - From: C.Benham Date: Saturday, November 13, 2010 11:20 am Subject: My Favorite Deterministic Condorcet Efficient Method: TACC To: em Cc: Forest W Simmons Regarding my example 31: AB 32: BC 37: CA Forest: I've come around to the belief that most

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Kathy Dopp
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:17:49 +0200 From: Juho juho4...@yahoo.co.uk To: Election Methods election-meth...@electorama.com Subject: Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots Message-ID: 8c9f038f-e57b-4589-a102-41b7a91bf...@yahoo.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Dave Ketchum
Actually, differs from plurality is not a sure indication of failure for ranked voting - either IRV or Condorcet. For Plurality, voter can name only ONE candidate. For ranking, voter can vote for more than one, perhaps ranking most desired over more gettable. Condorcet will use all

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Kathy Dopp
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Dave Ketchum da...@clarityconnect.com wrote: Actually, differs from plurality is not a sure indication of failure for ranked voting - either IRV or Condorcet. For Plurality, voter can name only ONE candidate. David, Not sure why you are restating the obvious.

Re: [EM] breakdown of Oakland mayor ballots

2010-11-13 Thread Dave Ketchum
On Nov 13, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Kathy Dopp wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Dave Ketchum da...@clarityconnect.com wrote: Actually, differs from plurality is not a sure indication of failure for ranked voting - either IRV or Condorcet. For Plurality, voter can name only ONE candidate.