I can even imagine some productive interplay between a linter and
org-mode itself. For instance, the linter could be used for deprecating
features in org-mode which are no longer maintainable. I'm sure we
could come up with other examples.
On 7/11/21 2:40 PM, trx2358-git...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
Hi there,
I'm new to this mailing list and I'm sure I'm not caught up on discussions on
using a BNF for org-mode.
I have seen Gustav Wilkstroem's warning about the difficulties involved. I
wonder if I might propose
(what
Hi Bastien, Hi Ihort
> https://updates.orgmode.org
whoops, I completely overlooked that.
> Org, whether they want to help, fix confirmed bugs or review patches.
>
> Of course, https://updates.orgmode.org is in alpha and we can still
> improve it a lot. In particular, I plan to let it track
D writes:
> TL;DR: Maybe we could improve the visibility of patches by having a
> dedicated mailing list for them? This would also allow for a greater
> deal of automation in the way we deal with patches.
What about https://updates.orgmode.org/? Or do you refer to something
else?
Best,
Ihor
Hi,
D writes:
> TL;DR: Maybe we could improve the visibility of patches by having a
> dedicated mailing list for them? This would also allow for a greater
> deal of automation in the way we deal with patches.
We do have a dedicated information channel for patches:
Hi Timothy,
I was quite weary to bring up this point, but given the sheer volume of
patch-related exchanges in recent memory I feel that it may be worth
bringing up as I have not yet seen it discussed (if I overlooked it, my
apologies): I don't think the core problem can (or maybe should) be
Tim Cross writes:
> OK, consider me 'singed up".
Done, thanks again.
> What is our position with bugs which can only be reproduced in the
> current development version of Emacs?
They are extremely rare, so don't worry about this too much.
> I'd expect we track them, but focus more on Emacs
Hi Nick,
Nick Savage writes:
> On a side note, I'd like some guidance though on whether or not the
> community is interested in a refactoring project (done in pieces of
> course). I'm wondering if I should be attempting to submit minor (or
> larger) patches moving things around to make it
Bastien writes:
> Hi Tim,
>
> thank you very much for your detailed answer.
>
> Tim Cross writes:
>
>> Yes, but with some caveats.
>
> Thank you!
>
>> For these reasons, I'm probably not the best person to assist with the
>> review and guidance for patches aimed at adding/extending
Hi Tim,
thank you very much for your detailed answer.
Tim Cross writes:
> Yes, but with some caveats.
Thank you!
> For these reasons, I'm probably not the best person to assist with the
> review and guidance for patches aimed at adding/extending functionality.
The role of a "contributor
Bastien writes:
> Hi Tim,
>
> Tim Cross writes:
>
>> I agree and am willing to help if I can.
>
> Great! Would you agree to be "officially" appointed to this role,
> with Timothy? I put quotes on "officially": when moving toward the
> new maintainance team, I'd like to list maintainers and
As a new contributor, I wanted to add my two cents. I've submitted a
minor amount of patches (somewhere between 1 and 3, I can't remember
exactly), and I feel that the other problems you raise, primarily the
first one, are obstacles towards that though. Patches like that are
obviously minor,
Hi all,
we are looking for someone to take charge of a very important task:
reproducing bugs reported on this list.
Bug reports generally starts with "Bug: " in the email subject, even
if some emails directly sent to the list may omit this keyword.
Once you confirm a bug, you would need to
Hi Tim,
Tim Cross writes:
> I agree and am willing to help if I can.
Great! Would you agree to be "officially" appointed to this role,
with Timothy? I put quotes on "officially": when moving toward the
new maintainance team, I'd like to list maintainers and their roles,
including the
Hi Timothy,
thanks for your answer and your willingness to help here, much
appreciated.
Timothy writes:
> I also think that regardless it would be good to put out a call asking
> if anyone else is interested/willing to do this: I'm going to be busy
> sometimes, a reduced workload is clearly
Bastien writes:
> Dear Timothy,
>
> thanks for raising this points so carefully, they are important.
>
> I see three distinct problems:
>
> 1. The lack of response and/or follow-up when people contribute by
>sending bug reports or patches on the list.
>
> 2. The lack of maintainance on
Dear Bastien,
Thank you for your well-thought-out reply.
With regards to the question your email ends with:
> What do you think? Would you be willing to take this role?
> If not, that's perfectly okay, I'll send a call for help.
The short answer is "yes, mostly". The long answer follows :P
Dear Timothy,
thanks for raising this points so carefully, they are important.
I see three distinct problems:
1. The lack of response and/or follow-up when people contribute by
sending bug reports or patches on the list.
2. The lack of maintainance on documenting the contribution process
Jean Louis writes:
> * David Masterson [2021-04-20 00:59]:
>> What is the current status of having a BNF (or...?) parser for Org
>> files? In particular, the parser rules that could then be adopted by
>> tools that use Org files on other systems (iPhone, Android, ...)? Given
>> the
Tom Gillespie writes:
> Hi Tim, David, and Gustav,
Hi
> I am fairly certain that with only a few exceptions it is possible
> to specify a context free grammar for org syntax, followed by a second
> pass that deals specifically with markup and a few other forms,
> notably the reassembly of
Gustav Wikström writes:
> You didn't ask me, but since I'm currently here and reading the list I
> might just give 2c to the topic.
Your 2c appreciated. I'm looking to learn.
> My understanding is that a BNF-grammar is virtually impossible for
> Org. The org language is ambiguous and writing
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:49 PM Tim Cross wrote:
>
> ian martins writes:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 3:45 PM Tim Cross wrote:
> >
> > Responding to essentially just flag you have seen the patch message
> > really only adds noise and may even 'drown out' those responses which
> > add real
Tim Cross writes:
> ian martins writes:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 3:45 PM Tim Cross wrote:
>>
>> [Noise]
>>
>> Timothy said there were 25 patches without response and the list goes back
>> six months, so we're only talking about 50 emails per year.
> That assumes there is a single
ian martins writes:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 3:45 PM Tim Cross wrote:
>
> Responding to essentially just flag you have seen the patch message
> really only adds noise and may even 'drown out' those responses which
> add real 'value' to any discussion. I also doubt that asking people to
>
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 3:45 PM Tim Cross wrote:
> Responding to essentially just flag you have seen the patch message
> really only adds noise and may even 'drown out' those responses which
> add real 'value' to any discussion. I also doubt that asking people to
> do this would actually result
"Bruce D'Arcus" writes:
> I've been thinking about this general issue over the past year, as
> it's a common problem regardless of project, hosting platform, etc.
>
> I do agree in general that situations where submission of ideas and
> patches languish without attention are a problem.
>
> But
Eric S Fraga writes:
> On Wednesday, 21 Apr 2021 at 12:55, ian martins wrote:
>> 1. A patch looks useful to me, but I feel I don't know if it's a good
>
> [...]
>
>>"Thanks for submitting this. I'd use it. Hopefully a maintainer
>>will take a look."
>
> Ian,
>
> I think you will find
I've been thinking about this general issue over the past year, as
it's a common problem regardless of project, hosting platform, etc.
I do agree in general that situations where submission of ideas and
patches languish without attention are a problem.
But while I don't think there are any easy
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:27 AM Eric S Fraga wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, 21 Apr 2021 at 12:55, ian martins wrote:
> > 1. A patch looks useful to me, but I feel I don't know if it's a good
>
> [...]
>
> >"Thanks for submitting this. I'd use it. Hopefully a maintainer
> >will take a look."
>
On Wednesday, 21 Apr 2021 at 12:55, ian martins wrote:
> 1. A patch looks useful to me, but I feel I don't know if it's a good
[...]
>"Thanks for submitting this. I'd use it. Hopefully a maintainer
>will take a look."
Ian,
I think you will find that a few of us do post answers like
Heinz Tuechler writes:
> Tim Cross wrote on 21.04.2021 11:50:
>> I find bug fixes are applied very quickly. Enhancements and extensions
>> are introduced more conservatively, but I think that is a positive
>> rather than negative aspect of org development. For many users, org is
>> already
Hello,
I just saw your message, and I wonder if there's an "official" channel to
discuss these efforts. I have no experience in theoretical parsing/lexing, but
I'm interested in learning and spending some time on externalizing org-mode
parsing to make it actually available outside of Emacs.
I
Timothy, thanks for raising this. I agree with everything you've said
in this thread. I think it may be a hard problem to solve, but maybe
we can start by just trying to improve. To be clear the problem I'm
talking about is that potential contributors sometimes receive no
response from the list.
Tim Cross wrote on 21.04.2021 11:50:
I find bug fixes are applied very quickly. Enhancements and extensions
are introduced more conservatively, but I think that is a positive
rather than negative aspect of org development. For many users, org is
already very feature rich/complete.
This is my
Jean Louis writes:
> It should be clear that more maintainers and developers with direct
> access are needed for patches to be applied timely.
>
> I am sure that those on emacs-devel mailing list, Emacs developers,
> they could help on that, but maybe some of them do not observe this
> mailing
It should be clear that more maintainers and developers with direct
access are needed for patches to be applied timely.
I am sure that those on emacs-devel mailing list, Emacs developers,
they could help on that, but maybe some of them do not observe this
mailing list.
Number of not applied
* David Masterson [2021-04-20 00:59]:
> What is the current status of having a BNF (or...?) parser for Org
> files? In particular, the parser rules that could then be adopted by
> tools that use Org files on other systems (iPhone, Android, ...)? Given
> the availability of parser generators
Hi Tim, David, and Gustav,
I am fairly certain that with only a few exceptions it is possible
to specify a context free grammar for org syntax, followed by a second
pass that deals specifically with markup and a few other forms,
notably the reassembly of things like plain lists. The fact that
Hi Eric,
Thanks for writing in and sharing your thoughts. I have some specific
comments that you may find below, but more generally: I get the
impression you approached this from the view of Org development and
patch merging.
In short, while I appreciate that Org development should be a
David Masterson writes:
> Tim Cross writes:
>
>> I suspect the best model for moving forward is for new features and
>> enhancements to be initially implemented as add on contribution packages
>> rather than as extensions/enhancement to the core 'org-mode' package.
>> Such packages, if found
g-mode-email
Subject: Concerns about community contributor support
Dear all,
Over the last few months I have felt an increasing level of concern over
the lack of response to patches. This email is rather long, but please,
bear with me. The goal is to start a discussion on the problems this
creates
, 2021 23:43
To: Tim Cross
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Concerns about community contributor support
Tim Cross writes:
> I suspect the best model for moving forward is for new features and
> enhancements to be initially implemented as add on contribution packages
> rather than as e
Tim Cross writes:
> I suspect the best model for moving forward is for new features and
> enhancements to be initially implemented as add on contribution packages
> rather than as extensions/enhancement to the core 'org-mode' package.
> Such packages, if found to be popular or useful to a large
Hello all,
I've avoided saying anything in this discussion but not from lack of
empathy with the initial post. Many valid points have been made in the
thread and I understand the frustrations. My own view is that org is
now at a different stage than it was some years ago. It is a
feature-full
Timothy writes:
> Tim Cross writes:
>> This is a common development path for a successful project. Kent Beck
>> (extreme/agile development) has been focusing a bit on this with his 3x
>> development model (eXplore, eXpand, eXtract). (see
>>
Thomas S. Dye writes:
>> Follow up: What should be the response to "noise", because I don't think
>> it should be a cold shoulder.
>>
> Agreed. I'm trying to put myself in the maintainers' shoes. They volunteer
> lots of highly skilled time, which I admire greatly. I can imagine a
>
Timothy writes:
Thomas S. Dye writes:
Hmmm, what constitutes noise?
Good question. I suppose like most words the meaning changes
over time. Early
on, posts along the lines of "Wouldn't it be cool if Org mode
would do this?"
were given more space than they seem to be today. Tim Cross
Tim Cross writes:
>> Nicolas Goaziou [...]
>
> Totally agree. The work Nicolas has put in to consolidate, stabilise and
> clarify the org code base has been critical to the long term viability
> of the project. I very much appreciate the work he has contributed and
> the many times he has
Thomas S. Dye writes:
>> Hmmm, what constitutes noise?
>>
> Good question. I suppose like most words the meaning changes over time.
> Early
> on, posts along the lines of "Wouldn't it be cool if Org mode would do this?"
> were given more space than they seem to be today. Tim Cross points
Timothy writes:
, but Org mode development is
in a new phase that *requires* technique and is quicker to
identify and filter
out noise.
Hmmm, what constitutes noise?
Good question. I suppose like most words the meaning changes over
time. Early on, posts along the lines of "Wouldn't
Hello Thomas, good to hear from you.
Thomas S. Dye writes:
> As a long-time follower of this list and a devoted, if often ignorant or
> confused, user of Org mode, I'd like to give my perspective on your concerns,
> which I find genuine and IMHO intended to further the Org mode project.
"Thomas S. Dye" writes:
> Aloha Timothy,
>
> working on Org mode (my interpretation), Nicolas Goaziou took over most of the
> coding work. His brief was clearly to put the Org mode code into better
> order,
> which he did with astonishing efficiency and expertise (at least from my often
>
Aloha Timothy,
As a long-time follower of this list and a devoted, if often
ignorant or confused, user of Org mode, I'd like to give my
perspective on your concerns, which I find genuine and IMHO
intended to further the Org mode project.
I was drawn to Org mode when Eric Schulte and Dan
Dear all,
Over the last few months I have felt an increasing level of concern over
the lack of response to patches. This email is rather long, but please,
bear with me. The goal is to start a discussion on the problems this
creates, and consider short and long-term solutions.
When both community
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