Re: [BUG] org-element-at-point: Throw an error when not in org-mode [9.7-pre (release_9.6.15-1033-gd8586f @ /home/marie/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Marie-Helene Burle]

I see. That makes sense.

Thank you very much for getting back to me with info. This is much appreciated!

Marie


Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Marie-Helene Burle  writes:
>
>> Prior to org 9.7, I used to use `org-meta-return` everywhere to nicely add 
>> elements to a list. Whether in mu4e, markdown, or anywhere, typing:
>>
>> - item1 
>>
>> Would nicely give me:
>>
>> - item1
>> -
>> ...
>> So, indeed, not a bug and probably nothing you want to worry about. I'll 
>> just have to learn to live without those nice little org behaviours in 
>> non-org buffers.
>>
>> Note that the Reddit thread I linked in my prior email suggests that
>> I am not the only one who took advantage of this. I don't know what
>> org function that other user was using in non-org buffer, but it
>> used to work and stopped in 9.7.
>
> You can still use org-meta-return at your own risk if you upgrade to the
> latest Org mode. Just hide the warning message that is now displayed in
> place of the error.
>
> The reason org-meta-return and some other functions worked in the past
> is their internal implementation based on regular expressions. In the
> newer Org mode, we are switching to internal implementation based on Org
> parser - it is more accurate and fixes various bugs, but can fail
> unpredictably when not in Org mode buffer.
>
> In future, there is a chance that Org parser will be able to run without
> errors (although not necessarily accurately) in non-Org buffers, but it
> is not something I am specifically looking to fix - rather a side effect
> of some planned changes.

Re: [BUG] org-element-at-point: Throw an error when not in org-mode [9.7-pre (release_9.6.15-1033-gd8586f @ /home/marie/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Marie-Helene Burle  writes:

> Prior to org 9.7, I used to use `org-meta-return` everywhere to nicely add 
> elements to a list. Whether in mu4e, markdown, or anywhere, typing:
>
> - item1 
>
> Would nicely give me:
>
> - item1
> -
> ...
> So, indeed, not a bug and probably nothing you want to worry about. I'll just 
> have to learn to live without those nice little org behaviours in non-org 
> buffers.
>
> Note that the Reddit thread I linked in my prior email suggests that I am not 
> the only one who took advantage of this. I don't know what org function that 
> other user was using in non-org buffer, but it used to work and stopped in 
> 9.7.

You can still use org-meta-return at your own risk if you upgrade to the
latest Org mode. Just hide the warning message that is now displayed in
place of the error.

The reason org-meta-return and some other functions worked in the past
is their internal implementation based on regular expressions. In the
newer Org mode, we are switching to internal implementation based on Org
parser - it is more accurate and fixes various bugs, but can fail
unpredictably when not in Org mode buffer.

In future, there is a chance that Org parser will be able to run without
errors (although not necessarily accurately) in non-Org buffers, but it
is not something I am specifically looking to fix - rather a side effect
of some planned changes.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: [BUG] org-element-at-point: Throw an error when not in org-mode [9.7-pre (release_9.6.15-1033-gd8586f @ /home/marie/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Marie-Helene Burle]

Note: actually, reading that Reddit thread again, it appears that multiple 
persons were doing this and they regret loosing the use of org functions in 
non-org buffers so much that they decided to pin org to 9.6...

Marie

Marie-Helene Burle  writes:

> Hi Ihor,
>
> Thank you for your reply and your explanations: very useful to learn how the 
> system works 
>
> Prior to org 9.7, I used to use `org-meta-return` everywhere to nicely add 
> elements to a list. Whether in mu4e, markdown, or anywhere, typing:
>
> - item1 
>
> Would nicely give me:
>
> - item1
> -
>
> Not a big deal you will say. But I liked the behaviour.
>
> I know that org functions (with the exception of
> `org-open-at-point-global` and maybe a few others intended to work
> everywhere) are only supposed to work in org buffers. But many
> functions actually used to work outside of org, even if that was never
> intended. I took advantage of that 
>
> So, indeed, not a bug and probably nothing you want to worry about. I'll just 
> have to learn to live without those nice little org behaviours in non-org 
> buffers.
>
> Note that the Reddit thread I linked in my prior email suggests that I
> am not the only one who took advantage of this. I don't know what org
> function that other user was using in non-org buffer, but it used to
> work and stopped in 9.7.
>
> Deep thanks for all the work,
>
> Best,
>
> Marie

Re: [BUG] org-element-at-point: Throw an error when not in org-mode [9.7-pre (release_9.6.15-1033-gd8586f @ /home/marie/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Marie-Helene Burle]

Hi Ihor,

Thank you for your reply and your explanations: very useful to learn how the 
system works 

Prior to org 9.7, I used to use `org-meta-return` everywhere to nicely add 
elements to a list. Whether in mu4e, markdown, or anywhere, typing:

- item1 

Would nicely give me:

- item1
-

Not a big deal you will say. But I liked the behaviour.

I know that org functions (with the exception of `org-open-at-point-global` and 
maybe a few others intended to work everywhere) are only supposed to work in 
org buffers. But many functions actually used to work outside of org, even if 
that was never intended. I took advantage of that 

So, indeed, not a bug and probably nothing you want to worry about. I'll just 
have to learn to live without those nice little org behaviours in non-org 
buffers.

Note that the Reddit thread I linked in my prior email suggests that I am not 
the only one who took advantage of this. I don't know what org function that 
other user was using in non-org buffer, but it used to work and stopped in 9.7.

Deep thanks for all the work,

Best,

Marie

--
Marie-Helene Burle
Research Solutions Specialist
Research Computing | Simon Fraser University
Digital Research Alliance of Canada
https://www.sfu.ca/~msb2/


Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Marie-Helene Burle  writes:
>
>> I suspect that this has already been reported as I saw it here: 
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-elpa-diffs@gnu.org/msg102743.html.
>
> This is just a reference to the commit that introduced the explicit
> error. Do note that the error got downgraded to a warning in a more
> recent development version of Org mode. But the warning still indicates
> inappropriate usage of Org functions that are designed to work in Org
> mode and expect Org mode buffer.
>
>> Just wanted to make sure it got to the right channel. Apologies for a
>> useless message if it already did.
>>
>> Noticed this problem with org 9.7. Used to be no problem with prior version.
>>
>> Also mentioned in 
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/18gkx0i/orgelementatpoint_cannot_be_used_in_nonorg_buffer/.
>
>> In my case, I get the error when using `org-meta-return` in non-org buffers.
>
>> I then get either of these error messages:
>>
>> Warning (org-element): ‘org-element-at-point’ cannot be used in non-Org 
>> buffer
>> Warning (org-element): org-element--cache: Org parser error in . 
>> Resetting.
>
> `org-meta-return' cannot be used in non-Org buffers. Just as the error
> states. May you please explain why you are trying to use Org mode
> command outside Org mode?
>
> Not a bug, although we can still discuss your use case.
> Canceled. (as a bug)

Re: [BUG] org-element-at-point: Throw an error when not in org-mode [9.7-pre (release_9.6.15-1033-gd8586f @ /home/marie/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Marie-Helene Burle  writes:

> I suspect that this has already been reported as I saw it here: 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-elpa-diffs@gnu.org/msg102743.html.

This is just a reference to the commit that introduced the explicit
error. Do note that the error got downgraded to a warning in a more
recent development version of Org mode. But the warning still indicates
inappropriate usage of Org functions that are designed to work in Org
mode and expect Org mode buffer.

> Just wanted to make sure it got to the right channel. Apologies for a
> useless message if it already did.
>
> Noticed this problem with org 9.7. Used to be no problem with prior version.
>
> Also mentioned in 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/18gkx0i/orgelementatpoint_cannot_be_used_in_nonorg_buffer/.

> In my case, I get the error when using `org-meta-return` in non-org buffers.

> I then get either of these error messages:
>
> Warning (org-element): ‘org-element-at-point’ cannot be used in non-Org buffer
> Warning (org-element): org-element--cache: Org parser error in . 
> Resetting.

`org-meta-return' cannot be used in non-Org buffers. Just as the error
states. May you please explain why you are trying to use Org mode
command outside Org mode?

Not a bug, although we can still discuss your use case.
Canceled. (as a bug)

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at