Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: Hi Bastien, Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com writes: Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading instead of really being at the start of the line. I recently edited some org files in clean mode for the first time (It might be the default mode on Worg?) and was surprised and a bit confused that my cursor(point) was invisible when on the invisible bullet stars at the beginning of the line. I had to move point to the (only) visible bullet star on the line to find out where I am in the buffer. Maybe only a peculiarity of my color-settings, but nevertheless convincing me not to use clean mode. Then we should fix org-indent.el accordingly. (Please avoid Clean mode as a way to refer to org-indent, it suggests other views are not clean! Maybe the doc should be updated wrt this.) I must confess I'm not a user of org-indent. I have been testing it a few times and always had the feeling it goes against Org's What You See is What You Have core principle. But let's fix bugs in it anyway. It might not really be a bug. I just double-checked in both my console and my X11 session, and the symptom only appears in the console session (overlays not visible?). So, on a user level, the solution might be to activate org-indent-mode conditional of the display type, something like this: ,--- | (defun my-org-indent-conditional-activation-function () | Activates org-indent-mode conditional on the display type. | (if (display-graphic-p) | (setq org-indent-mode t))) `--- If Emacs is used 'the standard way', call this function once in your .emacs should suffice. When using one Emacs daemon with many Emacsclients in console as well as X11 sessions (as I do), this function should be added to the server-visit-hook, so each emacsclient acts conditional on the display-type of his session. -- cheers, Thorsten
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Bastien b...@altern.org writes: Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes: On 11.4.2012, at 08:38, Bastien wrote: I must confess I'm not a user of org-indent. I have been testing it a few times and always had the feeling it goes against Org's What You See is What You Have core principle. But let's fix bugs in it anyway. For what it is worth, I constantly use it. - Carsten Me too! Okay -- a great relief to know I can count on Carsten and you to help solve possible issues there! I just posted a proposal how to activate org-indent conditional on the sessions display-type, since the irritating behaviour I had only happens in a console session, so I guess some overlays involved are only visible in X11. i must admit I never used org-indent since I prefer book-like headlines, I only had the problem of an unvisible cursor when editing Worg pages (probably in a console session without being aware of that fact). -- cheers, Thorsten
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Hello, Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com writes: I just posted a proposal how to activate org-indent conditional on the sessions display-type, since the irritating behaviour I had only happens in a console session, so I guess some overlays involved are only visible in X11. There are no overlays involved in Org Indent mode. You may want to customize `org-indent-mode-turns-on-hiding-stars' (or use #+STARTUP: showstars) instead of completely disabling org-indent for console sessions. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com writes: Hello, Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com writes: I just posted a proposal how to activate org-indent conditional on the sessions display-type, since the irritating behaviour I had only happens in a console session, so I guess some overlays involved are only visible in X11. There are no overlays involved in Org Indent mode. You may want to customize `org-indent-mode-turns-on-hiding-stars' (or use #+STARTUP: showstars) instead of completely disabling org-indent for console sessions. Actually, the stars are hidden with this function from org-faces.el, it seems: , | (defface org-hide | 'background light)) (:foreground white)) | (((background dark)) (:foreground black))) | Face used to hide leading stars in headlines. | The foreground color of this face should be equal to the background | color of the frame. | :group 'org-faces) ` so the whole issue might be the following: when using Emacs on the console (at least in my case), the default colors (-fg black -bg white) are reverted on the display, i.e. the background is shown black and the (foreground-)text white. Thats exactly what I want. To achieve the same in an X11 session, I added a function to the server-visit-hook that changes -bg to black and -fg to wheat when emacsclient visits a server file. Now what is happening when I open a org-mode buffer in a console session? I see a blinking white underscore as cursor/point on a black background. When I move it over a hidden star, point becomes invisible. (background-color-at-point) gives nil. (foreground-color-at-point) gives 'black' instead of nil like in the other parts of the buffer, and the black cursor on a black background becomes invisible. In an X11 session, with point on hidden stars, the hidden star becomes visible again instead, together with the cursor. What is the mechanism responsable for that? -- cheers, Thorsten
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Hi François, pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: [...] so what I usually do is position the cursor at the beginning of the /next/ heading and yank the list item there. [...] However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading (I'm using org-indent-mode instead of really being at the start of the line. It never really make sense, in my opinion, to yank in the middle of an invisible string. Luckily enough, yanking is done through a special org-yank function, so it is at least theoretically possible to prevent this. My suggestion would be that whenever yanking into a start string, that the yanking really occurs at the beginning of it. While revising old email, I'm stumbling on this, and just got a small idea. I do not know if it would work. While playing with the visibility of the stars, maybe that the text between the beginning of the line up to the last and only visible star in a header could be given the intangible attribute. I did not play with this in a very long while, but if I remember well, this would prevent inserting in the middle of this region. If you play with this idea, make sure basic commands like `org-demote' are still working. -- Bastien
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Hi Thorsten, Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com writes: Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading instead of really being at the start of the line. I recently edited some org files in clean mode for the first time (It might be the default mode on Worg?) and was surprised and a bit confused that my cursor(point) was invisible when on the invisible bullet stars at the beginning of the line. I had to move point to the (only) visible bullet star on the line to find out where I am in the buffer. Maybe only a peculiarity of my color-settings, but nevertheless convincing me not to use clean mode. Then we should fix org-indent.el accordingly. (Please avoid Clean mode as a way to refer to org-indent, it suggests other views are not clean! Maybe the doc should be updated wrt this.) I must confess I'm not a user of org-indent. I have been testing it a few times and always had the feeling it goes against Org's What You See is What You Have core principle. But let's fix bugs in it anyway. Thanks, -- Bastien
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
On 11.4.2012, at 08:38, Bastien wrote: Hi Thorsten, Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com writes: Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading instead of really being at the start of the line. I recently edited some org files in clean mode for the first time (It might be the default mode on Worg?) and was surprised and a bit confused that my cursor(point) was invisible when on the invisible bullet stars at the beginning of the line. I had to move point to the (only) visible bullet star on the line to find out where I am in the buffer. Maybe only a peculiarity of my color-settings, but nevertheless convincing me not to use clean mode. Then we should fix org-indent.el accordingly. (Please avoid Clean mode as a way to refer to org-indent, it suggests other views are not clean! Maybe the doc should be updated wrt this.) I must confess I'm not a user of org-indent. I have been testing it a few times and always had the feeling it goes against Org's What You See is What You Have core principle. But let's fix bugs in it anyway. For what it is worth, I constantly use it. - Carsten Thanks, -- Bastien
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes: On 11.4.2012, at 08:38, Bastien wrote: I must confess I'm not a user of org-indent. I have been testing it a few times and always had the feeling it goes against Org's What You See is What You Have core principle. But let's fix bugs in it anyway. For what it is worth, I constantly use it. - Carsten Me too! -Bernt
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes: On 11.4.2012, at 08:38, Bastien wrote: I must confess I'm not a user of org-indent. I have been testing it a few times and always had the feeling it goes against Org's What You See is What You Have core principle. But let's fix bugs in it anyway. For what it is worth, I constantly use it. - Carsten Me too! Okay -- a great relief to know I can count on Carsten and you to help solve possible issues there! -- Bastien
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: I often cut a list item (or a hierarchy of list items) to reinsert it into another heading which I know contains only list items. All the headings are collapsed, so what I usually do is position the cursor at the beginning of the /next/ heading and yank the list item there, this has the effect of inserting it at the end of the previous heading, no need to open it. Mhh, why don't you just insert a newline above the next heading and yank then? Hi, Memnon :-). Because it would induce a spurious white line. However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading instead of really being at the start of the line. I wonder how you end up between two stars in the first place... Usually through Emacs C-n. Of course, it is my error. Yet, Org mode could be friendlier, here! Lets say 'safer'. Safer *is* friendlier :-). But while ... indicating folded content at the end of a line is an integral part of org, things like org-hide-leading-stars seemed to me always to be purely cosmetic. Nice to have, but if one really edits org files by hand (it is all plain text, right), potentially a problem. Agreed that it's all plain text. Yet, this is Emacs, and Org mode is a very powerful mode, from which people may expect a lot. François
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: [...] so what I usually do is position the cursor at the beginning of the /next/ heading and yank the list item there. [...] However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading (I'm using org-indent-mode instead of really being at the start of the line. It never really make sense, in my opinion, to yank in the middle of an invisible string. Luckily enough, yanking is done through a special org-yank function, so it is at least theoretically possible to prevent this. My suggestion would be that whenever yanking into a start string, that the yanking really occurs at the beginning of it. While revising old email, I'm stumbling on this, and just got a small idea. I do not know if it would work. While playing with the visibility of the stars, maybe that the text between the beginning of the line up to the last and only visible star in a header could be given the intangible attribute. I did not play with this in a very long while, but if I remember well, this would prevent inserting in the middle of this region. François
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
François Pinard sadly writes: It never really make sense [...] whenever yanking into a start string [...] Well, I should learn to re-read me better... s/make sense/makes sense/ s/a start string/a star string/ Gentle readers, I invite you to email me (privately) when I err so blatantly, and help me improve! :-) François
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: I often cut a list item (or a hierarchy of list items) to reinsert it into another heading which I know contains only list items. All the headings are collapsed, so what I usually do is position the cursor at the beginning of the /next/ heading and yank the list item there, this has the effect of inserting it at the end of the previous heading, no need to open it. Mhh, why don't you just insert a newline above the next heading and yank then? (I'm using clean mode, as probably everybody does!) No. However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading instead of really being at the start of the line. I wonder how you end up between two stars in the first place... With `org-special-ctrl-a/e' t, I would not expect this to be an issue. But as indicated above, I don't use clean mode aka org-indent-mode. Of course, it is my error. Yet, Org mode could be friendlier, here! Lets say 'safer'. But while ... indicating folded content at the end of a line is an integral part of org, things like org-hide-leading-stars seemed to me always to be purely cosmetic. Nice to have, but if one really edits org files by hand (it is all plain text, right), potentially a problem. Memnon
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: However, by mistake, it happens that the cursor is on the only visible bullet star of the next heading instead of really being at the start of the line. I recently edited some org files in clean mode for the first time (It might be the default mode on Worg?) and was surprised and a bit confused that my cursor(point) was invisible when on the invisible bullet stars at the beginning of the line. I had to move point to the (only) visible bullet star on the line to find out where I am in the buffer. Maybe only a peculiarity of my color-settings, but nevertheless convincing me not to use clean mode. -- cheers, Thorsten
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: (I'm using clean mode, as probably everybody does!) No. What's this 'clean mode' you're taking about? I can't find any reference to that on worg. -Bernt
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: (I'm using clean mode, as probably everybody does!) No. What's this 'clean mode' you're taking about? I can't find any reference to that on worg. ,[ (info (org)Clean view) ] | 15.8 A cleaner outline view | === | | Some people find it noisy and distracting that the Org headlines start | with a potentially large number of stars, and that text below the | headlines is not indented. While this is no problem when writing a | _book-like_ document where the outline headings are really section | headings, in a more _list-oriented_ outline, indented structure is a | lot cleaner: ` Memnon
Re: [O] org-yank improvement?
Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: (I'm using clean mode, as probably everybody does!) No. What's this 'clean mode' you're taking about? I can't find any reference to that on worg. ,[ (info (org)Clean view) ] | 15.8 A cleaner outline view | === | | Some people find it noisy and distracting that the Org headlines start | with a potentially large number of stars, and that text below the | headlines is not indented. While this is no problem when writing a | _book-like_ document where the outline headings are really section | headings, in a more _list-oriented_ outline, indented structure is a | lot cleaner: ` Ah org-indent-mode :) Thanks, Bernt
