RE: RTTE - antennas
Within the RTTE harmonized standards fa. for SRD's a distinction is made between equipment having 1/ internal and 2/ external or 3/ dedicated antenna's. If your product is tested as an equipment having an external antenna, the test program will be such that the type of antenna should not have impact on the RTTE properties. Of course, otherwise a HAM product (transceiver) would not be able to be sold in Europe, as the antenna is unspecified. As an antenna is basically a passive element (at least it should), no detoriation of the transmitter properties is to be expected, but for directional properties. Some products won't be allowed with external antenna's, if the requirement is to limit it's geographical range (due to f.a. frequency sharing). Then a dedicated antenna is part of the approval procedure. Of course this IS the always case with internal antenna's. Many SRD devices use dedicated or internal antenna's only. I have to add that the requirement for external/dedicated antenna is most often implemented on regulatory level, and not specifically within the RTTE. Any permission to use the equipment will be with a prescribed antenna type, and often heigth. Of course, this is country and product type dependent, and subject to frequent changes and (hopefully) harmonization within the EC. Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Lothar Schmidt Sent: donderdag 15 mei 2003 00:04 To: 'Amund Westin'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RTTE - antennas It depends on which ETS/EN standard is applicable for the Radio some of them have the antenna parameters specified as part of the spectrum parameters. Best Regards Lothar Schmidt Technical Manager EMC/Radio/SAR BQB CETECOM Inc. 411 Dixon Landing Road Milpitas, CA 95035 phone ?+1 (408) 586 6214 fax +1 (408) 586 6299 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 1:10 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RTTE - antennas Assume a CE / RTTE approved radio transmitter system, which consists of an indoor unit (modulator), an outdoor unit (HPA/LNB/OMT) and an antenna. If you change to another type of antenna (passive), will the system still be compliant to the RTTE directive ? Is antenna testing a part of the RTTE testing ? Best regards Amund Westin This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Graphing Software
There could be something available on sourceforge.net luck, Brian -Original Message- Hi All, I'm looking at plotting the response of devices on a polar plot, either 2D or 3D. In this cases it's the response of a field probe. Several plots will be used for different frequencies. Does anyone have suggestions of what package to use? I know or Origin, but it's very expensive. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
RE: Graphing Software
Derek, I have used PSI Plot for many different applications and like it. It is very powerful and versatile. You may consider the initial price to be expensive. It is cheap to maintain. http://www.polysoftware.com/plot.htm Jim James L. Knighten, Ph.D. Teradata, a divsion of NCR http://www.ncr.com 17095 Via del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 tel: 858-485-2537 fax: 858-485-3788 From: lfresea...@aol.com [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 9:45 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Graphing Software Hi All, I'm looking at plotting the response of devices on a polar plot, either 2D or 3D. In this cases it's the response of a field probe. Several plots will be used for different frequencies. Does anyone have suggestions of what package to use? I know or Origin, but it's very expensive. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Re: Graphing Software
Doesn't Excel work for this? If not, I use a simple one called Grafdemo.exe which is best for plots up to 150 data points *and* has curve fitting SW for smooth displays and approx formulas. Or, Computer Calculus 4.0 CC4 which plots 2D and surface plots CC4 has good presentation of 2D with maxima *plus* you can rotate all the axes around for best view. Both have a good price - free. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 101 E San Fernando, Suite 402 San Jose, CA 95112 On Fri, 16 May 2003 12:44:49 EDT lfresea...@aol.com wrote: Hi All, I'm looking at plotting the response of devices on a polar plot, either 2D or 3D. In this cases it's the response of a field probe. Several plots will be used for different frequencies. Does anyone have suggestions of what package to use? I know or Origin, but it's very expensive. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Graphing Software
Hi All, I'm looking at plotting the response of devices on a polar plot, either 2D or 3D. In this cases it's the response of a field probe. Several plots will be used for different frequencies. Does anyone have suggestions of what package to use? I know or Origin, but it's very expensive. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
RE: CE directive (Warranty Defective Products)
See 1999/44/EC for warranty for consumer products. 85/374/EEC relates to defective products. Defective products does not mean not conforming to specifications, but means a product that causes at least 500 Euros worth of property damage (other than the loss of the product itself) or personal injury. Some products that conform exactly to specifications indeed do cause damage (and can be found defective); and some products have gross deviation from their specifications yet never cause property damage or personal injury. 85/374/EEC has been amended by 1999/34/EEC, requiring member states to include primary agricultural products to the list of products that can be defective. While on the subject of general directives (not CE marking), 92/59/EEC is a General Product Safety Directive for products not specifically covered by any other Directive (e.g. wind chimes, bird baths). Regards, Chuck Seyboldt (207) 893-0352 (207) 838-4026 Cellular (586) 461-6096 Facsimile At 08:36 (-0400) on 03.05.14, david_ster...@ademco.com wrote: Ghery, You are right about Article 10. However Article 11 provides ...'that the rights conferred upon the injured person pursuant to this Directive shall be extinguished upon the expiry of a period of 10 years from the date on which the producer put into circulation the actual product which caused the damage, unless the injured person has in the meantime instituted proceedings against the producer.' David Sterner -Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:16 PM To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; 'Gerald Tammi'; 'emc-pstc' Subject: RE: CE directive All, As I read this document, I don't come up with the concept of a 3 year warrantee on the product. What I see is that the plaintiff (the person injured by the product) has 3 years from the time they figure out whose product it was that injured them to make their claim for damages. This isn't a 3 year warrantee that the product works, or you will fix it. This is a 3 year statute of limitations (as we would say in the US) during which time the person injured by the product must make a claim for compensation. A slightly different situation than - I bought my stereo 2 years ago and it's broken. Please fix it. Or am I missing something here? Ghery Pettit Intel Corporation -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:31 PM To: 'Gerald Tammi'; 'emc-pstc' Subject: RE: CE directive Gerald, You can find all relevant info in Directive 85/374/EEC on : http://europa.eu.int/comm/consumers/policy/developments/prod_liab/pl01_en.pdf The period of warranty is not 2 but 3 years. Regards, kris -Original Message- From: Gerald Tammi [mailto:gera...@zoom.com] Sent: dinsdag 13 mei 2003 22:08 To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: CE directive Has anyone heard of the CE directive which mandates a 2 Year warrantee on consumer products in the EU?? This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Australian Automotive Product
Bob - Try the Standards Australia web site. http://www.standards.com.au/ Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Bob Heller Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 3:04 AM I cannot find any special requirements for products going into automobiles for Australia (I looked at the ACA website). Does anyone know of any other than the C-Tick requirements (product is not telecommunications). Thanks, Bob Heller This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Automotive Directive
Hi Bob, You wrote .. I have a copy of the Directive 95/54/EEC on order. Unless things have changed from when I last looked, one should be able to download the directive from sources such as http://www.europa.eu.int On naming, unlike the other directives, it ends in EC rather than EEC i.e. 95/54/EC The Directive only contains tests for broadband emissions, narrowband emissions, and radiated immunity. True. It sets limits for emissions based on ... CISPR 12 I think .. and sets the radiated immunity level at 24V/m, so a general test level of 30V/m is the norm. No tests exist for conducted emissions, immunity to transients, or ESD. True. Do (or can) auto manufacturers require tests outside of the Automotive Directive? Yes. And they do. Almost invariably, depending on the product. This is because the directive covers all equipment used in vehicles but makes no distinction between safety critical control-related equipment such as ABS, Steering, Engine management and less critical equipment like car stereos. That it doesn't address the power supply transients has been deemed a shortcoming by some but has been defended by others in some circles where arguments such as the equipment could be self powered have been presented. The Agricultural and Forestry vehicle manufacturers will often insist you apply EN ISO 14982, which covers the requirements of the directive but includes the 'missing' tests. Individual manufacturers then begin placing restrictions on how much quiescent current draw your equipment is allowed to draw in 'stand-by'. Often, it is best to think through how, when, where and by whom the equipment will be connected, and then devise a complete approvals strategy based on this info but I am sure you know all this. In addition to including the additional tests, vehicle manufacturers may also require higher stress levels for radiated immunity. 50V/m and 100V/m are common examples, and the conducted immunity spectrum often extends down from 30Mhz to audio frequencies. Best regards - Chris Chileshe - Ultronics Ltd (Own Opinions Only .. etc) From: rehel...@mmm.com [SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 10:50 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Automotive Directive I have a copy of the Directive 95/54/EEC on order. Can anyone tell me if the following are true: The Directive only contains tests for broadband emissions, narrowband emissions, and radiated immunity. No tests exist for conducted emissions, immunity to transients, or ESD. Do (or can) auto manufacturers require tests outside of the Automotive Directive? Thanks in advance, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and
RE: Automotive Directive
Bob, The statements that you make are true. The Directive only sets out minimum requirements. Any specific manufacturer may require suppliers of sub-assemblies to meet some limit that exceeds these minimum requirements. He is not obliged to accept any and all sub-assemblies that meet the minimum requirements. Typically, the radiated immunity requirements are quite low by automotive testing standards. Whereas the Directive requires immunity to 24V/m, I have heard of manufacturers testing to 200V/m. As for immunity to transients, etc, ISO 7637 is very likely to be cited. Hope this helps. Best regards, Neil R. Barker Compliance Engineering Manager e2v technologies ltd Waterhouse Lane Chelmsford Essex CM1 2QU U.K. Tel: +44 (01245) 453616 Fax: +44 (01245) 453410 E-mail: neil.bar...@e2vtechnologies.com -Original Message- From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: 16 May 2003 10:50 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Automotive Directive I have a copy of the Directive 95/54/EEC on order. Can anyone tell me if the following are true: The Directive only contains tests for broadband emissions, narrowband emissions, and radiated immunity. No tests exist for conducted emissions, immunity to transients, or ESD. Do (or can) auto manufacturers require tests outside of the Automotive Directive? Thanks in advance, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Automotive Directive
Yes - true see for example www.Fordemc.com! Peter From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: 16 May 2003 10:50 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Automotive Directive I have a copy of the Directive 95/54/EEC on order. Can anyone tell me if the following are true: The Directive only contains tests for broadband emissions, narrowband emissions, and radiated immunity. No tests exist for conducted emissions, immunity to transients, or ESD. Do (or can) auto manufacturers require tests outside of the Automotive Directive? Thanks in advance, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
