Safety Approvals in China; Interested in Your Experiences
Hello all, I'd like to hear about your experiences, including successes and failures, if you have endeavored to gain SACI and CCEE marks for China on your own. That is, without the assistance of 3rd parties, on your side, or the other side, of the World. Please indicate the type of product you submitted, and whether or not you utilized the CB Scheme to expedite your efforts. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that it is foolhardy to try this on your own. Is that true? Anecdotes sought. You may reply to me privately if you wish. ThanX and regards, Art Michael Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor P.O. Box 1561 PSTC Middletown CT 06457-8061 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@connix.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529
Job opportunities
HIRING Electrical Engineers in Massachusetts For EMC or Product Safety or SEMI S2 careers Curtis-Straus, a progressive entrepreneurial test and design laboratory, is seeking engineers to join our team. Our requirements include strong technical skills, a talent for solving technical challenges, and strong communications skills. The ideal candidate will strive to assure client satisfaction and enjoy daily interaction with clients and team members. Send resume to Department T, Curtis-Straus, 527 Great Road, Littleton, MA 01460. Or use email to cs...@world.std.com. Web:http://www.curtis-straus.com/ Jon D. Curtis, PE Curtis-Straus LLC j...@world.std.com Laboratory for EMC, Safety, NEBS, SEMI-S2 and Telecom 527 Great Roadvoice (978) 486-8880 Littleton, MA 01460 fax (978) 486-8828 http://www.curtis-straus.com/
RE: GS Requirements
Did I miss something along the way? Did Germany delete the Equipment Safety Law of 24 June 1968 and ammended 13th August 1980? Article 3 of the law says, The manufacturer or importer of technical equipment may only display or put into circulation if it is of such a nature, in accordance with the generally recognized rules of technology and the work safety and accident prevention regulations . . . The article then goes on to say The manufacturer or importer of an item of technical equipment may affix there to the symbol GS = geprfte Sicherheit (safety tested) . . . if the equipment has undergone a type test by a Test Centre. The law goes on to describe how the technical rules are developed. Remember that an EU state may have any law affecting equipment as long as it does not conflict with a Directive. Germany has at least two such requirements: ergonomics for workstations (PCs) and human exposure to EMF. One cannot receive a GS mark for a PC unless it complies with the ergonomic requirements of ZH1. That is the law and it is not in conflict with any directive since there is no directive on ergonomics nor are there any harmonized standards. Likewise there is no directive on EMF exposure. The ENV 50166 series will eventually become the harmonized standards. Again, all of this is moot if Germany has repealed the Equipment Safety Law which I don't beleive they have. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics wo...@sensormatic.com Views expressed by the author do not necessarily represent those of Sensormatic. -- From: Ing. Gert Gremmen[SMTP:cet...@cetest.nl] Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 3:14 PM To: WOODS, RICHARD; 'emc-pstc' Subject: Re: GS Requirements Hello Richard, No other requirements are necessary for your products then manufacturers declaration, based on EMC and/or LVD requirements/tests, who are backed up by appropriate standards to attach the ce-mark and export to europe. Make sure safety instructions are in the right European language. Although the lVD directive does not insist on this, local authorities are keen on maintaining safety. If any problems occcur, directly contact the European Commission by means of the appropriate office for compliants. Make sure you have a representative in Europe, who can be contacted for inspection of technical files. Regards, Gert Gremmen Ing. == Ce-test, Qualified testing == Consultants in EMC, Electrical safety and Telecommunication Compliance tests for European standards and ce-marking Member of NEC/IEC voting committee for EMC. Our Web presence: http://www.cetest.nl List of current harmonized standards http://www.cetest.nl/emc-harm.htm 15 great tips for the EMC-designer http://www.cetest.nl/features01.htm -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com Aan: 'emc-pstc' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Datum: woensdag 22 april 1998 21:02 Onderwerp: GS Requirements Equipment sold in Germany must comply with the GS requirements. Somewhere in the bowels of the German Government, there must be a list of standards that must be met in order to comply with the GS requirements. Does anyone know where one can find this list? What agency is responsible for maintaining/changing the list? Is there a legal methodology that must be followed in order to change the list, especially a public notice prior to the change? Given that a change is going to take place, are there standard transition rules? The particular case at hand is that TUV has informed me that the EMF human exposure standards have changed. VDE 0848 parts 2 and 4 have been replaced by ENV 50166-1 and ENV 50166-2. Any further information that anyone has in this regard would be helpful, especially information on any transition rules. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics wo...@sensormatic.com Views expressed by the author do not necessarily represent those of Sensormatic.
Re: Surge filter
Dave, Mr Jensen, Dave, your remark about gas discharge tubes would certainly lead to problems in AC mains supplied systems, as upon ignition of the gas, at least a full AC half period will discharge to ground, triggering any diff. mode switches (what their name in US ?) if you are lucky or electrifying your customer if you have bad luck. Better increase clearance or damp out resonances using a 50 Ohm 10 nF series r/caps with Y quality. (10 nF is no leakage current problem !) Regards, Gert Gremmen, == Ce-test, Qualified testing == Consultants in EMC, Electrical safety and Telecommunication Compliance tests for European standards and ce-marking Member of NEC/IEC voting committee for EMC. Our Web presence: http://www.cetest.nl List of current harmonized standards http://www.cetest.nl/emc-harm.htm 15 great tips for the EMC-designer http://www.cetest.nl/features01.htm -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Dave Ried dr...@wgc.woodward.com Aan: EMC Disc Group emc-p...@ieee.org Datum: donderdag 23 april 1998 20:56 Onderwerp: Re: Surge filter Mr. Jenson, The MOV solution will take care of the line-line surge, but don't forget the common mode component of this test. This is usually much more difficult to handle. You are not allowed to use MOVs from line to ground because of leakage (at least in AC systems). The biggest problem is resonance in the common mode filter, if it is a standard topology (CM choke and Y capacitors). This is a very high-Q filter. We have observed nearly 8kV peak line-ground on a 4kV common mode surge voltage because of the resonance. To avoid arcs, this increases primary to ground clearances to unacceptable levels, especially if you are working with low power designs. Again, without any method of clamping (no MOVs) you may be forced into placing a damping network on your filter or possibly a gas discharge tube. good luck Dave Ried dr...@wgc.woodward.com -- From: Ing. Gert Gremmen To: k...@scanview.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Surge filter Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 5:09AM Hello Mr jensen Just add a MOV between the phases. A 20 mm disc type will survive both type testing and real life surges. The smaller ones risc failure in testing if that is done according to the proposed test schedules (due to the limited number of pulses they can absorb). 50% reduction of 1 or 2 kV : is that enough ?? The MOV wil limit the pulse to approx 1.7 times it's specified voltage. If you need better performance, use the transient suppressors. They usually limit the voltage to approx 20 % over the indicated value. The lower voltages ones 5-50 Volt up to 50%. If it is for mains applications, select transil value according to peak value of main sinus. Regards, Gert Gremmen, ing. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: k...@scanview.com k...@scanview.com Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Datum: donderdag 23 april 1998 12:51 Onderwerp: Surge filter Dear groupe, Does anyone have some good idears about designing a simple filter for surges (the kind of surges that comes from testing according to IEC 61000-4-5) I was thinking about using an inductor, a capacitor and a MOV. But, what is the requirements for the inductor ? and will it give enough reduction of the puls at all. My experience is that a reduction of 50% is normally enough for our equipment. Best regards, Mr. Kim Boll Jensen ScanView A/S Denmark
Re: GS Requirements
Hello Richard, No other requirements are necessary for your products then manufacturers declaration, based on EMC and/or LVD requirements/tests, who are backed up by appropriate standards to attach the ce-mark and export to europe. Make sure safety instructions are in the right European language. Although the lVD directive does not insist on this, local authorities are keen on maintaining safety. If any problems occcur, directly contact the European Commission by means of the appropriate office for compliants. Make sure you have a representative in Europe, who can be contacted for inspection of technical files. Regards, Gert Gremmen Ing. == Ce-test, Qualified testing == Consultants in EMC, Electrical safety and Telecommunication Compliance tests for European standards and ce-marking Member of NEC/IEC voting committee for EMC. Our Web presence: http://www.cetest.nl List of current harmonized standards http://www.cetest.nl/emc-harm.htm 15 great tips for the EMC-designer http://www.cetest.nl/features01.htm -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: WOODS, RICHARD wo...@sensormatic.com Aan: 'emc-pstc' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Datum: woensdag 22 april 1998 21:02 Onderwerp: GS Requirements Equipment sold in Germany must comply with the GS requirements. Somewhere in the bowels of the German Government, there must be a list of standards that must be met in order to comply with the GS requirements. Does anyone know where one can find this list? What agency is responsible for maintaining/changing the list? Is there a legal methodology that must be followed in order to change the list, especially a public notice prior to the change? Given that a change is going to take place, are there standard transition rules? The particular case at hand is that TUV has informed me that the EMF human exposure standards have changed. VDE 0848 parts 2 and 4 have been replaced by ENV 50166-1 and ENV 50166-2. Any further information that anyone has in this regard would be helpful, especially information on any transition rules. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics wo...@sensormatic.com Views expressed by the author do not necessarily represent those of Sensormatic.
Re: Surge filter
The best way to design a filter is to establish the performance criteria first. Determine the source impedance Determine the load impedance Determine the attenuation required and at what frequency Determine the roll-off required Now you can determine what order filter you need and whether it is a butterworth or eliptical based on component count and cost. At this point you best use a filter design program such as FILSAP and then characterize it with SPICE. Don't forget that common mode rejection filters are a bit more tricky and require all lines to have a transfer impedance. Last but not least in importance is the topical placement of filters especially critical at high frequency. The closer they are located to the entry/exit point the better the performance. And, return path inductance and length, is not to be ignored. Hans Mellberg Director of Engineering Compliance Certification Services
Czech EMC and LVD compliance requirements
Can anyone clarify please what the Czech EMC and LVD compliance
requirements are.
Is the CE mark recognised as per European countries (supported with a
declaration of conformity)?
Or is further documentation required?
Chris James
Engineering Services Manager
Dolby Labs Inc UK
+44 (0)1793 842136
c...@dolby.co.uk
www.dolby.com
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[Fwd: GS Requirements]
Volkhard replies: Volkhard Delfs wrote: I have not yet dealt with with DIN 0848 part2/-4 nor with ENV50166-1, -2, but perhaps you should approach to the german association of electrical engineers the VDE. This group together with the german institute of norms (DIN) creates german electrical (emc, safety etc.) norms or prepares the adaptions of european standards. The homepage of VDE is www.vde.de. By the way, you must not comply with the GS requirements. GS is somewhat of a quality label. It means Gepruefte Sicherheit or approved safety. TUV makes a business out of this, as you have to pay license fees if your product bears that label. Of course you can be confident to match the applicable safety standards if you apply for GS-mark, but basically you only have to act in accordance with the applicable laws or EC directives (typically the EMC directive, Low Voltage Directive etc.). Best regards --
Re: Surge filter
Mr. Jenson, The MOV solution will take care of the line-line surge, but don't forget the common mode component of this test. This is usually much more difficult to handle. You are not allowed to use MOVs from line to ground because of leakage (at least in AC systems). The biggest problem is resonance in the common mode filter, if it is a standard topology (CM choke and Y capacitors). This is a very high-Q filter. We have observed nearly 8kV peak line-ground on a 4kV common mode surge voltage because of the resonance. To avoid arcs, this increases primary to ground clearances to unacceptable levels, especially if you are working with low power designs. Again, without any method of clamping (no MOVs) you may be forced into placing a damping network on your filter or possibly a gas discharge tube. good luck Dave Ried dr...@wgc.woodward.com -- From: Ing. Gert Gremmen To: k...@scanview.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Surge filter List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 5:09AM Hello Mr jensen Just add a MOV between the phases. A 20 mm disc type will survive both type testing and real life surges. The smaller ones risc failure in testing if that is done according to the proposed test schedules (due to the limited number of pulses they can absorb). 50% reduction of 1 or 2 kV : is that enough ?? The MOV wil limit the pulse to approx 1.7 times it's specified voltage. If you need better performance, use the transient suppressors. They usually limit the voltage to approx 20 % over the indicated value. The lower voltages ones 5-50 Volt up to 50%. If it is for mains applications, select transil value according to peak value of main sinus. Regards, Gert Gremmen, ing. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: k...@scanview.com k...@scanview.com Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Datum: donderdag 23 april 1998 12:51 Onderwerp: Surge filter Dear groupe, Does anyone have some good idears about designing a simple filter for surges (the kind of surges that comes from testing according to IEC 61000-4-5) I was thinking about using an inductor, a capacitor and a MOV. But, what is the requirements for the inductor ? and will it give enough reduction of the puls at all. My experience is that a reduction of 50% is normally enough for our equipment. Best regards, Mr. Kim Boll Jensen ScanView A/S Denmark
Re: Surge filter
Hello Mr jensen Just add a MOV between the phases. A 20 mm disc type will survive both type testing and real life surges. The smaller ones risc failure in testing if that is done according to the proposed test schedules (due to the limited number of pulses they can absorb). 50% reduction of 1 or 2 kV : is that enough ?? The MOV wil limit the pulse to approx 1.7 times it's specified voltage. If you need better performance, use the transient suppressors. They usually limit the voltage to approx 20 % over the indicated value. The lower voltages ones 5-50 Volt up to 50%. If it is for mains applications, select transil value according to peak value of main sinus. Regards, Gert Gremmen, ing. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: k...@scanview.com k...@scanview.com Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Datum: donderdag 23 april 1998 12:51 Onderwerp: Surge filter Dear groupe, Does anyone have some good idears about designing a simple filter for surges (the kind of surges that comes from testing according to IEC 61000-4-5) I was thinking about using an inductor, a capacitor and a MOV. But, what is the requirements for the inductor ? and will it give enough reduction of the puls at all. My experience is that a reduction of 50% is normally enough for our equipment. Best regards, Mr. Kim Boll Jensen ScanView A/S Denmark
Surge filter
Dear groupe, Does anyone have some good idears about designing a simple filter for surges (the kind of surges that comes from testing according to IEC 61000-4-5) I was thinking about using an inductor, a capacitor and a MOV. But, what is the requirements for the inductor ? and will it give enough reduction of the puls at all. My experience is that a reduction of 50% is normally enough for our equipment. Best regards, Mr. Kim Boll Jensen ScanView A/S Denmark
R: High power high frequency
Dear collegue, In our EMC facilities located at the Fiat Research Center we run Logimetrics amplifier 250 watt @ 18GHz. They work pretty well. The Logimetrics company is located in New York Ing. G. Rossi NCE -- Da: MLWaldron[SMTP:mlwald...@aol.com] Inviato: giovedì 23 aprile 1998 3.15 A:emc-p...@ieee.org Oggetto: Re: High power high frequency In a message dated 98-04-22 11:08:15 EDT, petter.gar...@enator.se writes: emc-p...@ieee.org (emc-p...@ieee.org) I was looking for Amplifiers in that same frequency range about a month ago but was unable to find anything but new units. Try Amplifier Research 160 Scholl House Road Souderton PA 18964-9990 Phone: 215-723-8181 Fax: 215-723-5688 About a month ago they had the one of each of the three amplifiers that would allow a person to get from 1 - 18 GHz. They were asking in the neighborhood of $160,000.00 USD for the set. (This is an estimate. My actual figures are at the office.) If anyone has another source or knows of equipment on the used market I would be interested as well. Thank you, Murrell Waldron RheinTexas, Inc. 1701 E Plano Pkwy, Suite 150 Plano, TX 75074 P: 972-509-2566 F: 972-509-0073
Re: High power high frequency
In a message dated 98-04-22 11:08:15 EDT, petter.gar...@enator.se writes: emc-p...@ieee.org (emc-p...@ieee.org) I was looking for Amplifiers in that same frequency range about a month ago but was unable to find anything but new units. Try Amplifier Research 160 Scholl House Road Souderton PA 18964-9990 Phone: 215-723-8181 Fax: 215-723-5688 About a month ago they had the one of each of the three amplifiers that would allow a person to get from 1 - 18 GHz. They were asking in the neighborhood of $160,000.00 USD for the set. (This is an estimate. My actual figures are at the office.) If anyone has another source or knows of equipment on the used market I would be interested as well. Thank you, Murrell Waldron RheinTexas, Inc. 1701 E Plano Pkwy, Suite 150 Plano, TX 75074 P: 972-509-2566 F: 972-509-0073
