Re: Outlet types
Muriel: Here's a good place to start: http://kropla.com/electric.htm Ed From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz mur...@grucad.ufsc.br Subject: Outlet types Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:27:06 -0300 To: Lista de EMC da IEEE emc-p...@ieee.org Hello, I'd like to know if someone can give some help to me on outlet types. The outlets in my electrical system are of NEMA type. But my lab equipment have the German type (I didn't know how is its name). So, I want to know if someone can give me some advice on how to feed correctly my equipment.. Thanks in advance Muriel -- == Muriel Bittencourt de Liz GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790 e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br ICQ#: 9089332 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). ---End of Original Message- -- Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 619-505-2780 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 07/16/1999 Time: 20:09:23 Military Avionics EMC Services Our Specialty Also Environmental / Metrology / Reliability -- - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Off Topic Maybe: Hydrogen Fuel Cells
Douglas, The IEEE Spectrum May 1999 issue pages 45-52 had an excellent article on Fuel Cells by Ronald H. Wolk. It gave a number of web site addresses for more information about fuel cells as follows: http://www.fetc.doe.gov http://www.dodfuelcell.com http://www.nfcrc.uci.edu http://www.epri.com http://www.gri.org A lot of money has been put into these ideas and they are progressing along. Regards G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., President TelApprove Services Corporation 1+613 257 3015 http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove Douglas McKean wrote: I apologize if this is really off topic ... Having a *friendly* discussion about hydrogen fuels cells replacing commercial power. I'm taking the you got to be kidden me! side. Okey. Sometime in the future, imagine this actually happens (stop laughing). Hydrogen is pumped out to everyone where in some shed, hopefully a quarter mile from my house, equipment uses the hydrogen for power conversion in the form of hydrogen fuel cells. Each residence has their own substation in a sense. Question - Besides from some obvious construction and engineering changes and JUST from a regulatory point of view, what's involved here? I'm thinking it would be a nightmare. Gotta be some power people out there that after they stop laughing might have something to say. There's gotta be some hefty building/construction requirements that are similar to ones that cover substations. Let alone what's involved with H2. Plus, if the cells are operating at a reduced voltage level, the ampacity of the wires used from the cells to the house would be unacceptably large in gauge. My thinking is 3kw or higher fuel cells to power a small house. Anyone care to take a shot? - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Indoor use symbol -- what standards?
Hi Rich, The only place I ever ran into this req't was for German approvals. The attached graphic image was derived from a third-generation copy of a page from some German standard. I then cleaned it up and used it for a TUV Rheinland approval. (I do recall some discussions regarding which half of the house the chimney belonged on. The attached file is believed to be correct, since it was used to layout the markings label, but do check with your test lab to be certain.) Regards, Art Michael * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * International Product Safety Bookshop * * Check out our current offerings! * * http://www.safetylink.com/bookshop.html * * * * Another service of the Safety Link* * www.safetylink.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- On Fri, 16 Jul 1999, Rich Nute wrote: Hello from San Diego: What countries and what standards require the indoor use: symbol? This symbol is comprised of a stick-figure house with an arrow pointing from outside to inside. My experience with this symbol is through TUV Product Service. They require its use because (they told me) it is required by a German standard for household use products. I do not know the standard. When TUV Product Service made me use the symbol, I asked for the standard reference and a printed example. They had none. So, one of their engineers drew the symbol and provided it to me. (This was some years ago.) The symbol is not in either the IEC symbol standard or the ISO symbol standard. I don't know of any product standard that requires the symbol. Perhaps one of the subscribers to this list can provide more information about what country and what standards require this symbol? Best regards, Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). housetuv.tif
RE: EN 54 Part 7
Hi Kevin, A few years ago I sat on the Cenelec working group tasked with writing EN501340-4. At the time CENELEC mandated the development of EN50130-4 for inclusion into the official journal rather than using the EMC requirements of EN54. I would recommend contacting the Loss Prevention Council in the UK http://www.lpc.co.uk for information on recent developments. Regards, Simon Rate Engineering Manager Product Safety Gateway Products Ph: 605 232 2230, Ext 26953 Fax: 605 232 2814 E Mail: simon.r...@gateway.com -Original Message- From: Kevin Harris [SMTP:harr...@dscltd.com] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 1:26 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: EN 54 Part 7 Hello, Is anybody out there in this list that sits on the working group involved in this spec? Do you know if there are any plans for updating it? My particular interest is the EMC portion. As components of fire and burglary systems are now covered by the family product EMC specification EN50130-4, is there any plans to drop the EMC requirements from EN 54? Thanks and Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approval Services Digital Security Controls 1645 Flint Road Downsview, Ontario CANADA M3J 2J6 Tel +1 416 665 8460 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 416 665 7753 email: harr...@dscltd.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Indoor use symbol -- what standards?
Hello from San Diego: What countries and what standards require the indoor use: symbol? This symbol is comprised of a stick-figure house with an arrow pointing from outside to inside. My experience with this symbol is through TUV Product Service. They require its use because (they told me) it is required by a German standard for household use products. I do not know the standard. When TUV Product Service made me use the symbol, I asked for the standard reference and a printed example. They had none. So, one of their engineers drew the symbol and provided it to me. (This was some years ago.) The symbol is not in either the IEC symbol standard or the ISO symbol standard. I don't know of any product standard that requires the symbol. Perhaps one of the subscribers to this list can provide more information about what country and what standards require this symbol? Best regards, Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Off Topic Maybe: Hydrogen Fuel Cells
Hi Doug: This subject is NOT in the you got to be kidding me category. Many years ago, such a fuel-cell generator was installed at IBM Kingston and ran for a year as an experiment. Since this is a SOURCE of electric energy, it falls into the same category as home wind generators and home solar generators. It's hooked up to the public utitilty with a suitable transfer switch for supplying your home or the utility or both. You can get such switches at Home Depot! No big deal. Spendy, but no big deal. Hydrogen storage and plumbing is a well-known construction. The fuel cell system outputs standard household voltage, current, and frequency. I believe it uses more-or-less standard electronic switching converters such as those used with a large UPS. Spendy, but no big deal. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 858 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 858 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Product Safety Semantics
Hi John: The subject here is regarding the words 'shall' vs. 'must' in various of product safety standards (including UL 1950 3rd Ed. and EN60950). Does anyone have any insight into the definitions of these as applicable to product safety? I have heard there are differences, but no one can seem to give me an answer. The two words, shall and must, are used interchangably. Both words are verbs. From Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th edition: shall: used in laws, regulations, or directives to express what is mandatory. etymology: OE shal: ought to, must must: be required by law, custom, or moral conscience to. etymology: OE moste: to be allowed to, to have to Clearly, by definition and by etymology, the words are nearly interchangable, at least insofar as usage in a standard. The word shall is predominant in IEC 950 and UL 1950; it appears throughout the standard. The word must appears in the following sub-clauses: 1.2.7.3 Text 1.7.2 Notes 2.7.1 Note 5.2.2 Compliance 6.3.2 Text Fig. 19 Notes Annex NAA3.4, Requirement Annex NAA6.4.4.2, Example Annex NAAAnnex NAB Example Annex NAE Text Annex NAE2.5.9 Topic/Summary Annex NAE3.1.12 Topic/Summary Annex NAE3.2.1 Topic/Summary Annex NAE3.3Topic/Summary Annex NAE3.3.5 Topic/Summary Clearly, most of the musts are in UL 1950 addenda, not in IEC 950. In context, it is very difficult to ascribe a meaning to must that is different from shall. (Identifying the word in the text is an easy exercise with an electronic copy of the standard and an application with a find function.) Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 858 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 858 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Off Topic Maybe: Hydrogen Fuel Cells
I apologize if this is really off topic ... Having a *friendly* discussion about hydrogen fuels cells replacing commercial power. I'm taking the you got to be kidden me! side. Okey. Sometime in the future, imagine this actually happens (stop laughing). Hydrogen is pumped out to everyone where in some shed, hopefully a quarter mile from my house, equipment uses the hydrogen for power conversion in the form of hydrogen fuel cells. Each residence has their own substation in a sense. Question - Besides from some obvious construction and engineering changes and JUST from a regulatory point of view, what's involved here? I'm thinking it would be a nightmare. Gotta be some power people out there that after they stop laughing might have something to say. There's gotta be some hefty building/construction requirements that are similar to ones that cover substations. Let alone what's involved with H2. Plus, if the cells are operating at a reduced voltage level, the ampacity of the wires used from the cells to the house would be unacceptably large in gauge. My thinking is 3kw or higher fuel cells to power a small house. Anyone care to take a shot? - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
