Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-06 Thread Chas Grasso 
Hmmm interesting problem!!

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 12:29 PM <
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:

> * This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by:
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> --
> Hello Group,
>
> I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK
> (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the
> address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on
> the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK?
>
>
> Thanks
> Peter
>
>
> -
> 
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-04 Thread 000006cee064502d-dmarc-request 
Thank you all. We will do one PDF with couple of pages as that seems to be a 
safer bet.


-Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Wed, Mar 1, 2023 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

Dan    You might not have had it rejected, 
but there’s no way to be 100% sure that it has been, and always will be 
excepted – it could just be because no one has taken a detailed look.    Some 
market enforcement agencies have rejected DoCs for, in their view, incorrect 
spaces – a specific example:       EN 
60335-1:2012+A11:2014+A13:2017+A1:2019+A2:2019+A14:2019 was accepted by a 
German Regulator. But EN 60335-1:2012 + A11:2014 + A13:2017 + A1:2019 + A2:2019 
+ A14:2019 was not.    I would normally say “you couldn’t make this up” – you 
can’t – it’s true !!    As others have noted, the declaration phrase on the CE 
and UKCA DoCs are different, so I would recommend against combining them as it 
gives a market regulator an angle to attack your DoC, and an “administrative 
non-compliance” opens you up to impounding and/or audit testing at your 
expense.    I would suggest a better alternative would be to have one PDF 
document, that contained several pages, each one with a DoC for a separate 
jurisdiction, such as 3 pages for example, one each for EU, UK and Aus.       
Best regards Charlie    Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 
624317 Web:https://sulisconsultants.com/  Registered in England and Wales, 
number 05466247    From: Dan Roman 
<0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: 01 March 2023 21:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC    We’ve been combining 
both onto one document.  It sometimes makes the document go to a second page 
because of the extra information.  We include Australia and anywhere else that 
will take a DoC into one document as well.  Haven’t had it rejected by anyone 
yet.    Dan       From: Andres Waszczenko 
[mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC    Hello Peter,    I 
have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the 
UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are 
needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach 
is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought.    Also note 
due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. The UKCA 
authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized standards that 
the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as Mike mentions, 
the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The references used are 
different between the UKCA and the EU.    Regards,   Andres    
Andres Waszczenko Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist Entrust Datacard  
1187 Park Place Shakopee MN, 55379 952-933-0768 andres.waszcze...@entrust.com   
       From: MIKE SHERMAN 
Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC    WARNING: This email originated 
outside of Entrust.
DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the 
content is safe. Yes, that is what we concluded. 
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with.  Mike  Sherman PSC LLC  
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org wrote:   
     Hello Group,    I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both 
EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that 
is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown 
on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK?       Thanks Peter           
                                                           - 
  This message 
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Charlie Blackham 
Dan

You might not have had it rejected, but there’s no way to be 100% sure that it 
has been, and always will be excepted – it could just be because no one has 
taken a detailed look.

Some market enforcement agencies have rejected DoCs for, in their view, 
incorrect spaces – a specific example:


EN 60335-1:2012+A11:2014+A13:2017+A1:2019+A2:2019+A14:2019 was accepted by a 
German Regulator.
But EN 60335-1:2012 + A11:2014 + A13:2017 + A1:2019 + A2:2019 + A14:2019 was 
not.

I would normally say “you couldn’t make this up” – you can’t – it’s true !!

As others have noted, the declaration phrase on the CE and UKCA DoCs are 
different, so I would recommend against combining them as it gives a market 
regulator an angle to attack your DoC, and an “administrative non-compliance” 
opens you up to impounding and/or audit testing at your expense.

I would suggest a better alternative would be to have one PDF document, that 
contained several pages, each one with a DoC for a separate jurisdiction, such 
as 3 pages for example, one each for EU, UK and Aus.


Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: 01 March 2023 21:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

We’ve been combining both onto one document.  It sometimes makes the document 
go to a second page because of the extra information.  We include Australia and 
anywhere else that will take a DoC into one document as well.  Haven’t had it 
rejected by anyone yet.

Dan


From: Andres Waszczenko 
[mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

Hello Peter,

I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the 
UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are 
needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach 
is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought.

Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. 
The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized 
standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as 
Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The 
references used are different between the UKCA and the EU.

Regards,
  Andres

Andres Waszczenko
Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist
Entrust Datacard
1187 Park Place
Shakopee MN, 55379
952-933-0768
andres.waszcze...@entrust.com<mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com>

[cid:image001.png@01D94C8B.25868BC0]


From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust.
DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the 
content is safe.

Yes, that is what we concluded.
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with.
Mike
Sherman PSC LLC
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:


Hello Group,

I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). 
He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location 
for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for 
signature? One in EU and one in UK?


Thanks
Peter























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Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Lauren Crane 
For what it's worth, the UK gov. sites recommends not convolving DoCs.

"The UK Declaration of Conformity is a document which must be drawn up for most 
products lawfully bearing a UKCA marking before they are placed on the market. 
We recommend that manufacturers have their UK Declaration of Conformity and 
their EU Declaration of Conformity in separate documents."

Ref 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation

Best Regards,
-Lauren

From: 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
<06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 2:59 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

You don't often get email from 
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>.
 Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>



External Email: Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments unless you 
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Great idea

-Original Message-
From: Chuck August-McDowell 
mailto:chu...@meyersound.com>>
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Wed, Mar 1, 2023 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
We are going to print on the EU DoC page other side...
2-sided printing to save paper.
One part number to save labor.



From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 12:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
Yes, that is what we concluded.
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with.
Mike
Sherman PSC LLC
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:


Hello Group,

I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). 
He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location 
for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for 
signature? One in EU and one in UK?


Thanks
Peter























-

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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Dan Roman 
We’ve been combining both onto one document.  It sometimes makes the document 
go to a second page because of the extra information.  We include Australia and 
anywhere else that will take a DoC into one document as well.  Haven’t had it 
rejected by anyone yet.

 

Dan

 

 

From: Andres Waszczenko 
[mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

 

Hello Peter,

 

I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the 
UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are 
needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach 
is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought.

 

Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. 
The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized 
standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as 
Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The 
references used are different between the UKCA and the EU.

 

Regards,

  Andres

 

Andres Waszczenko

Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist

Entrust Datacard 

1187 Park Place

Shakopee MN, 55379

952-933-0768

 <mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com> andres.waszcze...@entrust.com

 



 

 

From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> > 
Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust.
DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the 
content is safe.

  _  

Yes, that is what we concluded.  
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with.  

Mike 

Sherman PSC LLC 

On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>  wrote: 

 

 

Hello Group, 

 

I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). 
He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location 
for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for 
signature? One in EU and one in UK? 

 

 

Thanks 

Peter 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread 000006cee064502d-dmarc-request 
Great idea


-Original Message-
From: Chuck August-McDowell 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Wed, Mar 1, 2023 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

#yiv2282591812 filtered {}#yiv2282591812 filtered {}#yiv2282591812 
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.yiv2282591812MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv2282591812 filtered 
{}#yiv2282591812 div.yiv2282591812WordSection1 {}We are going to print on the 
EU DoC page other side… 2-sided printing to save paper. One part number to save 
labor.          From: MIKE SHERMAN 
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 12:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC    [THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER] 
Yes, that is what we concluded. 
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with. 

 Mike  Sherman PSC LLC  
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org wrote:   
     Hello Group,    I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both 
EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that 
is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown 
on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK?       Thanks Peter           
                                                           - 
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Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Douglas Powell 
I'll be very curious to learn how that works out.

Over the years, I have advised clients to print two copies.  One for the
outside of the shipping carton along with the other shipping papers.  This
helps to minimize the inspecting agent from opening the carton.  The second
copy for the inside of the package along with the user documents.  This is
because receiving departments will dispose of the shipping papers before
the end user gets a chance to see them.

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
doug...@gmail.com
LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradocomplianceguy/>

(UTC -07:00) Mountain Time (US-MST)


On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 1:25 PM Chuck August-McDowell 
wrote:

> We are going to print on the EU DoC page other side…
>
> 2-sided printing to save paper.
>
> One part number to save labor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* MIKE SHERMAN 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 1, 2023 12:18 PM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
>
>
>
> [THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
>
> Yes, that is what we concluded.
> In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two
> that your client might have to deal with.
>
> Mike
>
> Sherman PSC LLC
>
> On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Group,
>
>
>
> I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK
> (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the
> address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on
> the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Andres Waszczenko 
Hello Peter,

I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the 
UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are 
needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach 
is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought.

Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. 
The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized 
standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as 
Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The 
references used are different between the UKCA and the EU.

Regards,
  Andres

Andres Waszczenko
Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist
Entrust Datacard
1187 Park Place
Shakopee MN, 55379
952-933-0768
andres.waszcze...@entrust.com<mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com>

[cid:image001.png@01D94C4A.240F8CB0]


From: MIKE SHERMAN 
Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust.
DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the 
content is safe.

Yes, that is what we concluded.
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with.

Mike
Sherman PSC LLC
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:


Hello Group,

I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). 
He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location 
for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for 
signature? One in EU and one in UK?


Thanks
Peter























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Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Chuck August-McDowell 
We are going to print on the EU DoC page other side…
2-sided printing to save paper.
One part number to save labor.



From: MIKE SHERMAN 
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 12:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC


[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
Yes, that is what we concluded.
In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that 
your client might have to deal with.

Mike
Sherman PSC LLC
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:


Hello Group,

I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). 
He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location 
for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for 
signature? One in EU and one in UK?


Thanks
Peter























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Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread MIKE SHERMAN 


 
 
  
   Yes, that is what we concluded. 
   In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that your client might have to deal with. 
   
   
   
  
  
   Mike
  
  
   Sherman PSC LLC
  
  
   
On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org wrote:
   
   

   
   

   
   

 
  
   

 
  Hello Group,
 
 
  
 
 
  I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK?
 
 
  
 
 
  
  
   
Thanks
   
   
Peter

Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread Douglas Powell 
I could be wrong but last I checked the https://www.gov.uk/ website, it's
my understanding these cannot be legally combined into a single document.

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
doug...@gmail.com
LinkedIn 

(UTC -07:00) Mountain Time (US-MST)


On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:29 PM <
06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:

> Hello Group,
>
> I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK
> (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the
> address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on
> the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK?
>
>
> Thanks
> Peter
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> emc-p...@ieee.org
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[PSES] EU and UK DoC

2023-03-01 Thread 000006cee064502d-dmarc-request 
Hello Group,
I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). 
He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location 
for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for 
signature? One in EU and one in UK?

ThanksPeter


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