3, 2019 12:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Hi John,
Something you wrote earlier has puzzled me a little. I’ve summarised the thread
below, hopefully retaining the original context
JMW: I doubt anyone would disagree w
Hi John,
Something you wrote earlier has puzzled me a little. I’ve summarised the thread
below, hopefully retaining the original context
JMW: I doubt anyone would disagree with that. But if a company allows a test
house to impose compliance, how can it know that the result is reliable?
Had a customer (or two) ask the same question. My response was always: "more than it would take to fix your product".-Original Message-
From: Manny Barron
Sent: Apr 22, 2019 3:46 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy e
And my experience fell into the #3 bucket - sad to say.
Thanks!
Charles Grasso
W: 303-706-5467
From: doug emcesd.com [mailto:d...@emcesd.com]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 9:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
This
ct out the
door.
Regards,
Manny Barron
From: David Schaefer [mailto:david.schae...@element.com]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 8:06 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
As another voice from the test lab side -
, April 22, 2019 08:08
To: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
As another voice from the test lab side – there are problems everywhere in this
industry. Accreditation isn’t a panacea to fix them, but it should reduce the
most blatant
ailto:d...@emcesd.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:47 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Hi Ed and the group,
Accredited and not, most test labs I have dealt with have made significant
errors in testing. When I see these and
ments in the test report a variance from standard
procedure/set-up, ³at the customer¹s direction.²
Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261
From: Cortland Richmond
Reply-To: Cortland Richmond
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 21:20:28 -0400
To:
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy enviro
From: Edward Price
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 16:24
To: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
John:
I don’t see how a test house can “impose” compliance.
I thought all they could do was perform testing, and by looking at the
It's not just technicians. We all probably have stories of engineers
who didn't know setting up a test wasn't going to guarantee valid
results because the TE was susceptible-- and there wasn't any filtering
between it and the EUT.
Or that there were reasons why the minimal length of equipm
By 'they' in the quote below, I mean test house personnel.
Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-04-21 08:42, John Woodgate wrote:
*JMW: People take or send an EUT to the test house, which finds that
it fails. They
**WB6WSN**/
/**Chula Vista, CA USA*
**
*From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
*Sent:* Friday, April 19, 2019 1:19 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy
environment
I doubt anyone would disagree with that. But if a company
!
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 1:19 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
I doubt anyone would disagree with that. But if a company allows a
I changed the Subject, because my comments on the extract below are
much more general.
The heading of Clause 2 (usually the Normative references clause in the
past and now always so) in IEC/EN standards has changed over the years.
and since I see IEC standards being cited without the 60 000 a
Nope. 😊
From: DEREK WALTON <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 7:33 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Whoo Boy Ghery,
you know I can’t leave this reply alon
From: DEREK WALTON [ <mailto:00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
mailto:00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:47 PM
To: <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuri
:43 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy
environment
This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by:
owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org
<mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org>
Out of that long email, I selected th
: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by:
owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org>
Out of that long email, I selected the text below. I know
Amen! Compliance and performance – quality – has to be designed in at
the beginning or people like us will have to fix problems later and any
savings realized by skimping on quality will have been wasted.
I resigned from AST Research in 1997, and drove North following Comet
Hale-Bopp (really!)
, April 18, 2019 12:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Out of that long email, I selected the text below. I know Ed was writing about
the past, but things have changed, not enough yet but quite a bit. Compliance
(EMC
Out of that long email, I selected the text below. I know Ed was writing
about the past, but things have changed, not enough yet but quite a
bit. Compliance (EMC and safety) must be designed-in. Imposing
compliance on a 'finished' design causes delay, maybe even fatal delay,
and avoidable incr
: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:47 PM
To: Edward Price
Cc: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Whoah Ed,
you just landed along side Ken and Ghery!
Derek, I’m not aiming my comments at you, you are simply in the sequence of the
thread. But however I have
ity.com
Cc: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Hi Manny, Et al.
It’s not my intent to create division amongst followers, I simply want to
correct many misstatements.
For instance, sentences that begin “Years ago”… Well, years ago we were
TSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Whoah Ed,
you just landed along side Ken and Ghery!
I have to strongly oppose some of your views on what the test lab should or
shouldn’t Know/do. Wow, have you any id
I've been my employer's witness at certified test labs that relied
overmuch on automation, which allowed them to accept as test "operators"
people who had no understanding of the technology or, indeed, anything
an EMC technician would be expected to know. For that matter, I've been
employed at
Don't give up! I'm 81, and last year I tagged quite a nicely-funded task.
Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-04-18 18:24, Cortland Richmond wrote:
Darn straight! At 74, I may not get another contract, but I'v
Darn straight! At 74, I may not get another contract, but I've had to
correct outside lab practices -- certified test labs -- more than once.
Cortland Richmond
On 4/17/2019 19:21 PM, Edward Price wrote:
*However, it is not the “chamber” that delivers that assurance of
quality workmanship, r
IIRC, one of the standards I read some years ago would allow for noise
levels of -6 dB or more relative to the limit line. Remember the old
average power interview question? "Within 1 dB, what's the average of 23
dBm, -1 dBm, and -11 dBm?" Similarly, if the ambient is enough lower
than the lim
DEREK WALTON [mailto:00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org
> <mailto:00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:47 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Ques
.
From: DEREK WALTON [mailto:00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 10:47 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Whoah Ed,
you just landed along side Ken and Ghery!
I have to strongly
the test lab was unprepared to
>> receive him or that the test lab was anything less than expert in
>> integrating the test specimen and support equipment into the test chamber.
>>
>> It would appear that the selected test lab was just not ready for prime time.
>>
u...@listserv.ieee.org]
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:47 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy
environment
Whoah Ed,
you just landed along side Ken and Ghery!
I have to strongly oppose some of your views on what the test lab
#x27;ll be glad to be there.
Manny Barron
From: DEREK WALTON [mailto:00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:47 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Whoah Ed,
you just l
58d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:08 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
>
> Interesting discussion, not surpr
: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:08 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Interesting discussion, not surprising I have a little empathy, and a whole
slew of disagreement with both Ken and Ghery ( both Chaps I have a lot of
sting similar to the
military method?
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 9:47 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
To those wondering wha
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
>
> Boy, I have heard all sorts of horror stories from clients with knowledgeable
> EMC backgrounds who have witnessed sloppy, or ju
AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
To those wondering what the background and conclusion to that question was:
Background: Our testing was performed in a newly minted chamber so
proper
EMC installation of our p
Absolutely agree with Ken.
Bill Stumpf
Lab/Technical Manager
D.L.S. Elecronic Systems, Inc.
From: Kenneth Wyatt [mailto:emc.g...@emc-seminars.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:21 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Grasso, Charles"
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:46:32 +
To:
Conversation: Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
Subject: [PSES] Question re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
To those wondering what the background and conclusion to that question was:
Background:
Boy, I have heard all sorts of horror stories from clients with knowledgeable
EMC backgrounds who have witnessed sloppy, or just plain wrong, procedures used
in commercial EMC test labs. In a lot of cases, the technicians operating these
tests have limited background in EM theory and poor knowle
To those wondering what the background and conclusion to that question was:
Background: Our testing was performed in a newly minted chamber so proper
EMC installation of our product was challenging.
Effect: Ingress of high levels of external bb noise.
Result:
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