[Emc-users] New $33 60GB SSD's from newegg

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings;

New stuff report.

I just installed one of the SP 60GB drives in the G0704's Dell computer. 
I have everything copied across, theoretically I should be able to 
remove the 2 TB thats been in it for around 2 years as I am needing a 
bigger drive for amanda, whose 1TB drive is at about 87%.

DF says 18% so 60GB should do ok for a while.

Speed comparison with hdparm -tT:

2TB rotating drive, supposedly sata-III capable
dev/sda6:
 Timing cached reads:   2456 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1228.06 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 292 MB in  3.01 seconds =  96.95 MB/sec

60GB SSD;
dev/sdb3:
 Timing cached reads:   2484 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1242.54 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 642 MB in  3.00 seconds = 213.65 MB/sec

While its rated sata-III, or 6GB/sec, that old Dell Optiplex 745 mobo 
obviously isn't. But its still pleasantly faster. Not too shabby for a 
$33 drive. :) I think I'll put the 2nd one on the rock64 as its lone 
sata socket is a sata-III capable socket.  But maybe its time to round 
up a an expander and get acquainted with how they work.

Moving the 2TB drive in here for amanda, will give me room to add the 
machine I use to program mesa cards, and the rock64 to its nightly 
backup schedule.

These are Silicon Power SSD drives, never heard of them before.  Anybody 
else here have any experience with their stuff?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[andy pugh]

On 28 October 2017 at 01:58, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> Most LinuxCNC systems ar set up so the PC sends out things like PWM or
> step/directin.  These are VERY low level but with this setup, not the
> communication is at a much higher level, even the home and limit
> switches are detected by the controller.

You would still need a low-latency link to do coordinated moves such
as circular interpolation, though.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Chris Albertson]

My German is very poor.  I can't follow what he is saying but he has
enough English subtitles that I can figure out how it works.  There is
also a part-2 video.  Almost certainly someone on this list can tell
us if he is saying anything we'd need to know.

First off he is using a LAPTOP.  He is using the laptop's built-in
Ethernet port and a software Ethercat driver.
Yes the laptop's latency specs are likely poor but it does not mater
because he is using some very sophisticated servo controllers

The servo controller is an Indra Drive C It uses three electrical
connections to 1. AC mains, 2. the servo motor and its encoder and 3.
Ethercat.

I skimmed over the Indra Drive user manual.  It looks like is uses
"drive follows command" type programming.   The laptop does not need
to see any feedback.  It only sends desired position and velocity.
The Intra Drive has dozens of parameters that must be set to control
things like maximum acceleration, the units used to specify position
and velocity, limits for temperature sensors  a couple dozen more.

Most LinuxCNC systems ar set up so the PC sends out things like PWM or
step/directin.  These are VERY low level but with this setup, not the
communication is at a much higher level, even the home and limit
switches are detected by the controller.



On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Check out this video - this is 2013 and he is using Ethercat with LinuxCNC.
> Unfortunately I can't understand him.  :-(
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR9rCFavFjU
>
> Dave
>
> On 10/27/2017 6:40 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>
>> I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to earn
>> money
>> on it. It's however useful to know how it works during normal working
>> hours.
>>
>> 2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld :
>>
>>> I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:
>>>
>>> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-driver
>>>
>>> about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
>>> command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
>>> ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
>>> signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
>>> to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
>>> performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
>>> value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others
>>> that
>>> arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
>>> ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.
>>>
>>> I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
>>> will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to
>>> play
>>> on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
>>> device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
>>> all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as
>>> a
>>> result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage
>>> of
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
>>> ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In
>>> addition,
>>> many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they
>>> have
>>> the bus.
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>> bkt
>>>
>>> 2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson
>>> 
>>> :
>>>
 On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
 theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:

> I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past

 with
>
> backoff device. ...

 I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?

 
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>>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Dave Cole]

http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/servo/servo-systems.php?tID=1107=t=527

Not cheap, but if you are putting them on a production machine... that 
has to run everyday and makes $$, then these are really inexpensive.


I think these are about half of what Automation Direct is selling 
non-networked drives.


Dave

On 10/27/2017 2:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Friday 27 October 2017 13:14:30 Dave Cole wrote:


Check out this video - this is 2013 and he is using Ethercat with
LinuxCNC. Unfortunately I can't understand him.  :-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR9rCFavFjU

Dave


That looks like well over a kilobuck just to wave some masking tape
around. Except for spindle's, and Z on the g0704, I only have about $90
to $125 in any other axis beyond the bobs.  And they've carved up some
pretty nice stuff.


On 10/27/2017 6:40 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to
earn money on it. It's however useful to know how it works during
normal working hours.

2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld

:

I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-dri
ver

about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for
user command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not
utilize ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command.
Mesa analogue signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy
and precise signals to use to go for alternative methods that
usually do not give such good performances. Keep in mind that
realtime on ethercat is not a universal value ... commercially
there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that arrive up to
10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.

I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but
they will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is
best to play on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data
comm between some device or for connect some device without problem
of 5-10ms response time all work fine. I could not recommend any
ethercat for professional use as a result of my experiences. But
I'm sure many others have taken advantage of it.

Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In
addition, many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat
even if they have the bus.


regards
bkt

2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson



On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200

theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:

I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in
past

with


backoff device. ...

I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat
implementation?


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Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 27 October 2017 15:43:35 andy pugh wrote:

> On 27 October 2017 at 19:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > That crossed my mind too, but what difference does that actually
> > make? Is there a url that would explain that?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutator_(electric)#The_commutating_pl
>ane

Thank you Andy, that explains it quite nicely. This "field dragging" I 
have to assume applies even at locked rotor conditions.

So the best I can do is bang it even harder when in reverse, up to the 
the current limit imposed by the pwm-servo setting, about 15 amps. 10 
amp rated motor IIRC from reading its label.

Interesting in that its a physical limitation only fixable by having a 
set of brushes for each direction.  And that is not about to happen in a 
$100 - $200 motor, economics sets that rule...

Someday, and I live that long, a vfd & a 3 hp motor. But for rigid 
tapping, this has at least a 20x faster turnaround time at the end of 
the down stroke. And if I ever get the pid really tuned, even faster.  
Playing earlier this week, while awaiting parts for the transmitter, 
overshoot in low gear was an even full turn at around 185 revs.  What 
I'd really like to do is change out the 2/1 gears for 4/1. Not having 
opened it up, I've no clue if Boston Gear can make that recipe.

Yup, people in hell are expecting ice water too... ;-)

Thanks Andy. I've an explanation that fits the observation.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[Chris Albertson]

If the motor has an encoder and is controlled by a PID loop then if it
is not VERY close to the commanded speed one of two things is wrong
(1) The PID gain settings are very far off what they should be or (2)
the motor or its power supply or controller some how weak and not able
to run at the commanded speed.

I'd check the PID first.  It the PID is working the output will be at
maximum.  The control loop run at tens or hundreds of times per second
and very quicks will "wind up" to the maximum value.   If it is not
doing that, it's broken  Ether the encoders is not sending correct
data or the gains are very low

If the PID controller is sending the maximum and the motor is slow,
it's an electrical/motor problem

The spindle should run at exact speed within the resolution limits of
the encoder and control loop period.


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[andy pugh]

On 27 October 2017 at 19:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> That crossed my mind too, but what difference does that actually make? Is
> there a url that would explain that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutator_(electric)#The_commutating_plane

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 27 October 2017 14:06:07 andy pugh wrote:

> On 27 October 2017 at 18:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > My question is, why, since its a pm field brushed motor, which
> > should be symmetrical, why the asymmetrical characteristic to the
> > control?
>
> Maybe it isn't symmetrical? Perhaps the brush plate is (deliberately)
> not aligned with the field coils.

That crossed my mind too, but what difference does that actually make? Is 
there a url that would explain that?

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 27 October 2017 13:14:30 Dave Cole wrote:

> Check out this video - this is 2013 and he is using Ethercat with
> LinuxCNC. Unfortunately I can't understand him.  :-(
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR9rCFavFjU
>
> Dave
>
That looks like well over a kilobuck just to wave some masking tape 
around. Except for spindle's, and Z on the g0704, I only have about $90 
to $125 in any other axis beyond the bobs.  And they've carved up some 
pretty nice stuff.

> On 10/27/2017 6:40 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to
> > earn money on it. It's however useful to know how it works during
> > normal working hours.
> >
> > 2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld 
:
> >> I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:
> >>
> >> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-dri
> >>ver
> >>
> >> about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for
> >> user command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not
> >> utilize ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command.
> >> Mesa analogue signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy
> >> and precise signals to use to go for alternative methods that
> >> usually do not give such good performances. Keep in mind that
> >> realtime on ethercat is not a universal value ... commercially
> >> there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that arrive up to
> >> 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
> >> ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.
> >>
> >> I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but
> >> they will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is
> >> best to play on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data
> >> comm between some device or for connect some device without problem
> >> of 5-10ms response time all work fine. I could not recommend any
> >> ethercat for professional use as a result of my experiences. But
> >> I'm sure many others have taken advantage of it.
> >>
> >> Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
> >> ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In
> >> addition, many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat
> >> even if they have the bus.
> >>
> >>
> >> regards
> >> bkt
> >>
> >> 2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson
> >> 
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
> >>>
> >>> theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
>  I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in
>  past
> >>>
> >>> with
> >>>
>  backoff device. ...
> >>>
> >>> I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat
> >>> implementation?
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
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> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >> 
> >> --
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> >
> > 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 27 October 2017 13:01:12 Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:

> > Greetings everybody;
> >
> > Now that I have my G0704 back among the living, I've noted that the
> > spindle pid has to show a bit of error, and reverse is still slower
> > than fwd (about 25% slower) despite the fact that I have a .60 bias
> > in fwd, and a .90 bias in reverse as friction helpers.
> >
> > Can this be because the brush locations are such that it highly
> > favors the fwd rotation?
>
> I had problem starting my tractor once and connected more batteries,
> there where plenty of long sparcs like welding and I correctly assumed
> brushes where worn out.
>
That has also crossed my mind, but I've not noted any voltage spikes like 
bad brushes would give. You can't see them w/o removing that huge cover 
over everything, and then holding a mirror above it to see into it. I 
did do that a year or more back and didn't see anything unusual.  And 
the difference in speeds was obvious then too.

> It might be a good idea to turn by hand and check if load is same in
> both direction. To run motor without load in both directions is also a
> good idea.

>From the hand on the spindle test, or from the top of the tight drawbolt 
it turns with equal ease in both directions.

Thanks Nicklas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[andy pugh]

On 27 October 2017 at 18:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> My question is, why, since its a pm field brushed motor, which should be
> symmetrical, why the asymmetrical characteristic to the control?

Maybe it isn't symmetrical? Perhaps the brush plate is (deliberately)
not aligned with the field coils.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Hope it's only the red ones.

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 27 October 2017 11:19:09 Przemek Klosowski wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Erik Christiansen
> 
>
> wrote:
> > On 09.10.17 09:06, sam sokolik wrote:
> > > I am very doubtful that the red dye is causing the problem..  (I
> >
> > dissected a
> >
> > > few styes - all have shielded pairs)
> >
> > Agreed. To see if the described "powdered copper wire" was the
> > cause, I hacked into my replaced cable last night, and found that
> > there's Al foil and a lot of clear polyethylene (or similar) in
> > between. Furthermore, the substantial tinned conductors were
> > pristine.
> >
> > So all I can truly report is that nothing would bring the machine
> > back to life until I replaced the cable, and boot times and disk
> > performance are 2 - 4 times better than shortly before it went
> > catatonic. Reason? Dunno. So just a time-saving fortuitous
> > coincidence?
> >
> > Could it be oxidation on the connector? vigorous unplugging and
> > replugging wiping it clean, perhaps?

If I'm correct, that will do little for the problem, and likely the 
handling will make it much worse. BTDT, quite a few times. As a side 
note, Dell makes pretty good machines, I have 3 now. All still running 
on the OEM cables and they aren't red. So they must also know about 
this. To test, take a plastic tool, and just move the middle of the 
cable an eighth inch.  If the log explodes with drive resets, there is 
your answer.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 27 October 2017 10:39:04 andy pugh wrote:

> On 27 October 2017 at 15:02, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Now that I have my G0704 back among the living, I've noted that the
> > spindle pid has to show a bit of error,
>
> If you are running on PGain this is entirely to be expected. (P-output
> is zero with zero error)

Some Pgain, 4.5 IIRC. I should setup the halscope and see if I can arrive 
at a smoother control as I don't think 4.5 is enough. The idea was to 
get a stiff control, which under load it isn't 100% solid yet.

My question is, why, since its a pm field brushed motor, which should be 
symmetrical, why the asymmetrical characteristic to the control?  Or is 
this a further indicator of the fact that I am going to have to rebuild 
the head, replaceing the roller skate bearings with decent AC bearings?  
The noise from the bearings is getting worse as time goes by. 
Particularly in high gear.

One thing I haven't done is to actually check the voltage being delivered 
to the motor to see if its in the pwm-servo amp.  Easily done by 
sticking meter leads into the slots of the triple plugged extension 
cable I cut the src plug off of and used for motor power from one of 
Jon's pwm-servo amps, or plugging in an incandescent lamp in parallel 
with the motor. I should get off my duff and check that.  Cold weather 
has arrived, and I've been busy this week with the WHAW transmitter.

So all I've done in the garage this week is collect tools & test gear. 
Which is still in the new driveway decorator, a 2011 full crew cab Ford 
with a short box and Leer topper. The 99 GMC was rusting, like leaking 
brake fluid from odd places in steel lines, and the rear axle housing 
was also so badly rusted at the spring clamps it was leaking axle oil. 
Fixable, just bring money. Like being nibbled to death by ducks...

Since the box was also due for derusting & restoration, and this Ford 
looked showroom new, I figured over the next decade the outlay would 
about balance.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (linuxcnc tree)

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

There is nothing available in ordinary linuxcnc development tree?



On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:07:59 +0200
theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:

> I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:
> 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-driver
> 
> about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
> command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
> ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
> signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
> to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
> performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
> value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that
> arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
> ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.
> 
> I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
> will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to play
> on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
> device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
> all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as a
> result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage of
> it.
> 
> Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
> ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In addition,
> many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they have
> the bus.
> 
> 
> regards
> bkt
> 
> 2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson :
> 
> > On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
> > theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
> >
> > > I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past
> > with
> > > backoff device. ...
> >
> > I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?
> >
> > 
> > --
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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Dave Cole]

Thank you!
Dave

On 10/27/2017 1:18 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:

He does do some that you might understand 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2lFg1rwgg


Martin




From: Dave Cole

Check out this video - this is 2013 and he is using Ethercat with LinuxCNC.
Unfortunately I can't understand him.  :-(

https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DyR9rCFavFjU=02%7C01%7Ctomaz_ti1%40hotmail.com%7C18919b58548040ca1cd208d51d5e24e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636447212537380310=YNO7rCs0f7rcYK1rNaMa06jow9ryDuzvFkHH6DXYa0s%3D=0

Dave

On 10/27/2017 6:40 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to earn money
on it. It's however useful to know how it works during normal working hours.

2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld :


I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:

https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.linuxcnc.org%2F24-hal-components%2F22346-ethercat-hal-driver=02%7C01%7Ctomaz_ti1%40hotmail.com%7C18919b58548040ca1cd208d51d5e24e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636447212537380310=DVNXO0fV8iz%2FFC4OjzTqGSbljqJ5mV6IQRyK4xckGSQ%3D=0

about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that
arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.

I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to play
on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as a
result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage of
it.

Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In addition,
many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they have
the bus.


regards
bkt

2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson 
:


On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:


I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past

with

backoff device. ...

I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?


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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Martin Dobbins]

He does do some that you might understand 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2lFg1rwgg


Martin




From: Dave Cole

Check out this video - this is 2013 and he is using Ethercat with LinuxCNC.
Unfortunately I can't understand him.  :-(

https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DyR9rCFavFjU=02%7C01%7Ctomaz_ti1%40hotmail.com%7C18919b58548040ca1cd208d51d5e24e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636447212537380310=YNO7rCs0f7rcYK1rNaMa06jow9ryDuzvFkHH6DXYa0s%3D=0

Dave

On 10/27/2017 6:40 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to earn money
> on it. It's however useful to know how it works during normal working hours.
>
> 2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld :
>
>> I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:
>>
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.linuxcnc.org%2F24-hal-components%2F22346-ethercat-hal-driver=02%7C01%7Ctomaz_ti1%40hotmail.com%7C18919b58548040ca1cd208d51d5e24e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636447212537380310=DVNXO0fV8iz%2FFC4OjzTqGSbljqJ5mV6IQRyK4xckGSQ%3D=0
>>
>> about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
>> command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
>> ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
>> signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
>> to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
>> performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
>> value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that
>> arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
>> ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.
>>
>> I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
>> will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to play
>> on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
>> device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
>> all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as a
>> result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage of
>> it.
>>
>> Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
>> ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In addition,
>> many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they have
>> the bus.
>>
>>
>> regards
>> bkt
>>
>> 2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson 
>> :
>>
>>> On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
>>> theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
>>>
 I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past
>>> with
 backoff device. ...
>>> I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! 
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>>>
>> 
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>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (sync manager, fmmu) ??

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

> Hardware for master is hard to find because you don't need it.   Any normal
> Ethernet port works.   Master is a software-only solution.
> 
> You can choose a simple less redundant network topology.  Double ring is
> used because it can tolerate failure and it's not more expensive then daisy
> chain.

You might be almost correct about cost but I am not sure, if return path dose 
not interpret signal. I have however seen driver have two receive and two 
transmit connections.

I have found some documentation on frame format but have not yet figured out 
purpose of sync manager and fmmu but it seems important since manufacturers 
list numbers available.

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Dave Cole]

Check out this video - this is 2013 and he is using Ethercat with LinuxCNC.
Unfortunately I can't understand him.  :-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR9rCFavFjU

Dave

On 10/27/2017 6:40 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to earn money
on it. It's however useful to know how it works during normal working hours.

2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld :


I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-driver

about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that
arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.

I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to play
on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as a
result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage of
it.

Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In addition,
many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they have
the bus.


regards
bkt

2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson 
:


On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:


I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past

with

backoff device. ...

I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?


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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

> Greetings everybody;
> 
> Now that I have my G0704 back among the living, I've noted that the 
> spindle pid has to show a bit of error, and reverse is still slower than 
> fwd (about 25% slower) despite the fact that I have a .60 bias in fwd, 
> and a .90 bias in reverse as friction helpers.
> 
> Can this be because the brush locations are such that it highly favors 
> the fwd rotation?

I had problem starting my tractor once and connected more batteries, there 
where plenty of long sparcs like welding and I correctly assumed brushes where 
worn out.

It might be a good idea to turn by hand and check if load is same in both 
direction. To run motor without load in both directions is also a good idea.

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Re: [Emc-users] Hope it's only the red ones.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Erik Christiansen 
wrote:

> On 09.10.17 09:06, sam sokolik wrote:
> > I am very doubtful that the red dye is causing the problem..  (I
> dissected a
> > few styes - all have shielded pairs)
>
> Agreed. To see if the described "powdered copper wire" was the cause, I
> hacked into my replaced cable last night, and found that there's Al foil
> and a lot of clear polyethylene (or similar) in between. Furthermore,
> the substantial tinned conductors were pristine.
>
> So all I can truly report is that nothing would bring the machine back
> to life until I replaced the cable, and boot times and disk performance
> are 2 - 4 times better than shortly before it went catatonic.
> Reason? Dunno. So just a time-saving fortuitous coincidence?
>
> Could it be oxidation on the connector? vigorous unplugging and replugging
wiping it clean, perhaps?
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Re: [Emc-users] dc motor question

[andy pugh]

On 27 October 2017 at 15:02, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Now that I have my G0704 back among the living, I've noted that the
> spindle pid has to show a bit of error,

If you are running on PGain this is entirely to be expected. (P-output
is zero with zero error)

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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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[Emc-users] dc motor question

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings everybody;

Now that I have my G0704 back among the living, I've noted that the 
spindle pid has to show a bit of error, and reverse is still slower than 
fwd (about 25% slower) despite the fact that I have a .60 bias in fwd, 
and a .90 bias in reverse as friction helpers.

Can this be because the brush locations are such that it highly favors 
the fwd rotation?

Or am I about to lose this motor?

If I remove those biases, the difference in fwd vs rev speed is much 
greater, nearly the 50% that grizzly claims is by design when it was 
running on their thyristor controller.

Thanks for any insight on this.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I make my own hardware, it's only for fun and I do not intend to earn money
on it. It's however useful to know how it works during normal working hours.

2017-10-27 11:07 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld :

> I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-driver
>
> about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
> command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
> ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
> signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
> to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
> performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
> value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that
> arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
> ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.
>
> I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
> will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to play
> on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
> device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
> all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as a
> result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage of
> it.
>
> Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
> ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In addition,
> many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they have
> the bus.
>
>
> regards
> bkt
>
> 2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson 
> :
>
> > On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
> > theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
> >
> > > I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past
> > with
> > > backoff device. ...
> >
> > I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat master (SOEM,

[theman whosoldtheworld]

I use the suggestion and indication from linuxcnc forum:

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/22346-ethercat-hal-driver

about SOEM, The basic implement is not realtime  so is ok for user
command, not so for drive command. Any how my decision is not utilize
ethernet bus for drive position/velocity/torque command. Mesa analogue
signal and feedback encoder on mesa card are too easy and precise signals
to use to go for alternative methods that usually do not give such good
performances. Keep in mind that realtime on ethercat is not a universal
value ... commercially there are devices that go under 1 ms but others that
arrive up to 10-20ms  for example kunbus has made devices on pi3 with
ethercat and more, but with a realtime of 5ms.

I have made the opinion that bus-rt on ethernet are very nice, but they
will really be useful only in some have. in the meantime it is best to play
on to be ready and wait. If you would use it for data comm between some
device or for connect some device without problem of 5-10ms response time
all work fine. I could not recommend any ethercat for professional use as a
result of my experiences. But I'm sure many others have taken advantage of
it.

Last but no least, there is also the security issue. Here in Europe
ethernet-ip and secure signals do not agree much for example. In addition,
many drive manufacturers do not have safety over ethercat even if they have
the bus.


regards
bkt

2017-10-26 18:19 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson :

> On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:36:26 +0200
> theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
>
> > I'm working with it now using linuxcnc implementation ... and in past
> with
> > backoff device. ...
>
> I just started to look a day or two ago, which Ethercat implementation?
>
> 
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