Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Chris Albertson
[image: image.gif]
[image: image.png]
Just a minute.   Why do you need a VM to demo LinuxCNC?   Boot the live CD.
  Any PC can simply boot the live image and run in simulation mode with no
VM.



On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:23 PM Frank Tkalcevic 
wrote:

> I use VMWare player on Windows 10 without any issues.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Marius [mailto:mar...@mastercut.co.za]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2020 1:58 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in
>
> What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to
> run LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a
> working machine to do so with.
>
> Regards
>
> Marius
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Rafael Skodlar

Hi Marius,

On 9/1/20 9:29 AM, Marius wrote:

Hi Todd

I just need to run a simuation to show some GUI's and fucntionality. 
Thanks I will try VitrualBox.




My test with 2 different version of LinuxCNC in Virtualbox works fine. 
They share space with other 16 VMs for different tests like ROS, Ubuntu 
firewalls, kubernetes, BSD, CentOS, etc.


Virtualbox is inside my Kubuntu workstation. I say go for it.

It would be more impressive if you had a low cost industrial SBC with 
functional LinuxCNC and use it for simple demo with LEDs, switches, and 
a stepper motor or two.



On 2020/09/01 18:18, Todd Zuercher wrote:
I don't think it really matters much.  Just remember that a VM is only 
capable of running Linuxcnc in simulation mode, because VMs are 
incapable of realtime.

I have only used Virtualbox myself and it works fine for simulations.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

.
--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Frank Tkalcevic
I use VMWare player on Windows 10 without any issues.

-Original Message-
From: Marius [mailto:mar...@mastercut.co.za] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2020 1:58 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to 
run LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a 
working machine to do so with.

Regards

Marius



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Re: [Emc-users] Because the hardware store was 4 miles away...

2020-09-01 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 01 September 2020 11:37:47 Ralph Stirling wrote:

> I've been quite mesmerized by Sam Sokolik's videos
> of his synchronized spindle/X axis lathe work.  It just
> occurred to me that this might be handy for doing
> four-jaw turning.  You could just stick your work in the
> chuck approximately centered, touch off two 90 degree
> offset points, and have the "virtual" centerline offset
> appropriately from the actual center of rotation.
>
> That would eliminate the tedious task of centering
> the stock in the four-jaw chuck.  Some more hal
> coding or trajectory calculation required, of course.
>
> -- Ralph

Luv the idea Ralph, but that would really warm up my vfd, running that 
slow. I have it set to shut down at about 9.5HZ but even then 30 minutes 
doesn't overheat the motor because I also have a current limit 
programmed to match the nameplate FLA. And I think that would prompt me 
to replace the nema 24 motor on my x with one of the 3 phase step driven 
nema 23 servo's of 2NM. I have a 3NM one of those replacing the 
1600oz/in that was on the z, and its moving 2x faster now. But the 3NM 
is about 10mm too long to fit in the x location and the encoder would 
not fit on the back of the motor without plowing a huge groove in the 
Sheldons bed. Not gonna happen.

Thanks Raplh.

> 
> From: Sam Sokolik [samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 11:07 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Because the hardware store was 4 miles
> away...
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University
> email system.
>
>
> I am adding poor man's trajectory planning.. (not really planning)
>
> adding the ability to add a tangent-tangent radius to the polygon..  
> This is so there isn't an abrupt change in direction.
>
> The one pic shows a 0 radius vs .020 radius...  The over shoot for the
> given spindle rpm is all but zero.
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:22 PM Sam Sokolik  
wrote:
> > some close up-ish with slow mo...
> >
> > https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyo
> >utu.be%2F_S_bGAuTN0sdata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.e
> >du%7C0265e9685d1045bffa2d08d84dd8d507%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7a
> >a64%7C0%7C0%7C637344940967684006sdata=KQJ%2FlpumQz5iWRCzjlFJAiHU
> >uZxu3%2B70Ino%2BDmeSS%2Fw%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 3:13 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> >> (Off topic, but interesting)
> >>
> >> On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 at 02:11, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
> >>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Used to be mechanical drive attachments for some lathes to move
> >> > the
> >>
> >> cross slide in and out for cutting threads for taps.
> >>
> >> Yes, Holbrook used to offer a sub-speed head (clamped to the bed,
> >> connected to the spindle, output a speed lower by a factor of 6 on
> >> a coaxial secondary spindle nose) and a set of relieving equipment
> >> (special top slide , back power shaft, sets of cams)
> >>
> >> A mesmerising device for other lathes was developed by the model
> >> engineering community, the Eureka attachment.
> >> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw
> >>ww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DU_kqi3dqr50data=02%7C01%7Cralph.st
> >>irling%40wallawalla.edu%7C0265e9685d1045bffa2d08d84dd8d507%7Cd958f04
> >>8e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637344940967684006sdata=YyK
> >>O%2F3Z2GDN3fsitUe%2B8pJgdoib%2Fs4Paz7wWTVXXVAo%3Dreserved=0
> >>
> >> It almost seems like a shame to do it with CNC now.
> >>
> >> --
> >> atp
> >> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils
> >> and lunatics."
> >> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fl
> >>ists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=02%7C01
> >>%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C0265e9685d1045bffa2d08d84dd8d50
> >>7%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637344940967693998
> >>p;sdata=T%2BZi6NNszQWzOak8rHXMnlDT%2FRUu8QQCP0mZYkAqsdk%3Dreser
> >>ved=0
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that 

Re: [Emc-users] Because the hardware store was 4 miles away...

2020-09-01 Thread Ralph Stirling
I've been quite mesmerized by Sam Sokolik's videos
of his synchronized spindle/X axis lathe work.  It just
occurred to me that this might be handy for doing
four-jaw turning.  You could just stick your work in the
chuck approximately centered, touch off two 90 degree
offset points, and have the "virtual" centerline offset
appropriately from the actual center of rotation.  

That would eliminate the tedious task of centering
the stock in the four-jaw chuck.  Some more hal
coding or trajectory calculation required, of course.

-- Ralph

From: Sam Sokolik [samco...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 11:07 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Because the hardware store was 4 miles away...

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


I am adding poor man's trajectory planning.. (not really planning)

adding the ability to add a tangent-tangent radius to the polygon..   This
is so there isn't an abrupt change in direction.

The one pic shows a 0 radius vs .020 radius...  The over shoot for the
given spindle rpm is all but zero.





On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:22 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> some close up-ish with slow mo...
>
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F_S_bGAuTN0sdata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C0265e9685d1045bffa2d08d84dd8d507%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637344940967684006sdata=KQJ%2FlpumQz5iWRCzjlFJAiHUuZxu3%2B70Ino%2BDmeSS%2Fw%3Dreserved=0
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 3:13 AM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> (Off topic, but interesting)
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 at 02:11, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Used to be mechanical drive attachments for some lathes to move the
>> cross slide in and out for cutting threads for taps.
>>
>> Yes, Holbrook used to offer a sub-speed head (clamped to the bed,
>> connected to the spindle, output a speed lower by a factor of 6 on a
>> coaxial secondary spindle nose) and a set of relieving equipment
>> (special top slide , back power shaft, sets of cams)
>>
>> A mesmerising device for other lathes was developed by the model
>> engineering community, the Eureka attachment.
>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DU_kqi3dqr50data=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C0265e9685d1045bffa2d08d84dd8d507%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637344940967684006sdata=YyKO%2F3Z2GDN3fsitUe%2B8pJgdoib%2Fs4Paz7wWTVXXVAo%3Dreserved=0
>>
>> It almost seems like a shame to do it with CNC now.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C0265e9685d1045bffa2d08d84dd8d507%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637344940967693998sdata=T%2BZi6NNszQWzOak8rHXMnlDT%2FRUu8QQCP0mZYkAqsdk%3Dreserved=0
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
QEMU/KVM




On Tue, 2020-09-01 at 17:58 +0200, Marius wrote:
> What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to 
> run LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a 
> working machine to do so with.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Marius
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Jakub Kaminski
How about a Docker container launched on a Linux host machine? Did anyone
of you manage to run a container on a real-time-enabled host? Thank you.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 7:22 PM Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> One nice thing you can do with a VM, you don't even need to burn an ISO of
> the install media.  You can simply point the virtual computer's DVD at the
> ISO file and run the live install right from the ISO.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Marius 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 12:30 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> Hi Todd
>
> I just need to run a simuation to show some GUI's and fucntionality.
> Thanks I will try VitrualBox.
>
> On 2020/09/01 18:18, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > I don't think it really matters much.  Just remember that a VM is only
> capable of running Linuxcnc in simulation mode, because VMs are incapable
> of realtime.
> > I have only used Virtualbox myself and it works fine for simulations.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Marius 
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:58 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to
> run LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a working
> machine to do so with.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Marius
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Todd Zuercher
One nice thing you can do with a VM, you don't even need to burn an ISO of the 
install media.  You can simply point the virtual computer's DVD at the ISO file 
and run the live install right from the ISO.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Marius  
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 12:30 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

Hi Todd

I just need to run a simuation to show some GUI's and fucntionality.
Thanks I will try VitrualBox.

On 2020/09/01 18:18, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I don't think it really matters much.  Just remember that a VM is only 
> capable of running Linuxcnc in simulation mode, because VMs are incapable of 
> realtime.
> I have only used Virtualbox myself and it works fine for simulations.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Marius 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:58 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to run 
> LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a working 
> machine to do so with.
>
> Regards
>
> Marius
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Marius

Hi Todd

I just need to run a simuation to show some GUI's and fucntionality. 
Thanks I will try VitrualBox.


On 2020/09/01 18:18, Todd Zuercher wrote:

I don't think it really matters much.  Just remember that a VM is only capable 
of running Linuxcnc in simulation mode, because VMs are incapable of realtime.
I have only used Virtualbox myself and it works fine for simulations.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Marius 
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:58 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to run 
LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a working machine 
to do so with.

Regards

Marius



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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Todd Zuercher
I don't think it really matters much.  Just remember that a VM is only capable 
of running Linuxcnc in simulation mode, because VMs are incapable of realtime.
I have only used Virtualbox myself and it works fine for simulations.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Marius  
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:58 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to run 
LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a working machine 
to do so with.

Regards

Marius



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[Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Marius
What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to 
run LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a 
working machine to do so with.


Regards

Marius



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Re: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

2020-09-01 Thread John Dammeyer
> From: Tom Smart [mailto:smart_tow...@hotmail.com]
> How large is your 4th axis made from one of these? Any pics? How complicated 
> was the construction?

Like Andy, I've made mine complicated too.  I haven't yet made a face plate 
either.  He has a cam lock chuck on his lathe to be able to move the chuck with 
work held in it to the 4th axis..  I have a South Bend Heavy 10L with a screw 
on chuck and 5C collet spindle.  

I'm undecided whether I'm better to make a faceplate that can use the SB 
chuck/faceplate or something else.  As a result the indecision means nothing 
has been made yet.

I posted photos of the 3D printed pattern on the 8th of August.  Although Andy 
has a spare casting the mount hole spacing doesn't match my mill and shipping 
cast iron from the UK was scary.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/HarmonicDrive/D8X_5784_Plastic_Mount.jpg

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

2020-09-01 Thread John Dammeyer
I haven't got mine actually running as the 4th axis yet but I do have it 
turning with the STMBL AC servo drive sitting in a 3D printed mount. I've 
included the spec sheet.

John Dammeyer


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-01-20 4:03 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164363134065
> 
> It looks to have had a hard life, but there are others on there at 10x
> the price.
> 
> These are a really useful device, as they integrate a servo, harmonic
> drive and a very strong crossed-roller slewing ring in one package.
> 
> Basically a 4th-axis all ready to go.
> 
> I nearly bought this one myself, but I already have one doing good
> service as my 4th axis.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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FHA-14A-17A-25B specs.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

2020-09-01 Thread andy pugh
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 16:16, Tom Smart  wrote:
>
> How large is your 4th axis made from one of these? Any pics? How complicated 
> was the construction?

https://bodgesoc.blogspot.com/2017/05/harmonic.html

I made it complicated :-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

2020-09-01 Thread Tom Smart
How large is your 4th axis made from one of these? Any pics? How complicated 
was the construction?

From: andy pugh 
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 5:02 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164363134065

It looks to have had a hard life, but there are others on there at 10x
the price.

These are a really useful device, as they integrate a servo, harmonic
drive and a very strong crossed-roller slewing ring in one package.

Basically a 4th-axis all ready to go.

I nearly bought this one myself, but I already have one doing good
service as my 4th axis.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Relatively cheap harmonic actuator

2020-09-01 Thread andy pugh
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164363134065

It looks to have had a hard life, but there are others on there at 10x
the price.

These are a really useful device, as they integrate a servo, harmonic
drive and a very strong crossed-roller slewing ring in one package.

Basically a 4th-axis all ready to go.

I nearly bought this one myself, but I already have one doing good
service as my 4th axis.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

2020-09-01 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
How about a cheap solid state sensor that detects orientation or just any 
movement? Store it business end up and when flipped upright it turns on fully. 
Put it back in its storage rack and in a couple of minutes it shuts down. Give 
it a large coin cell and it can run for years. The latest RadBeacon Locator 
Tents (as seen at McDonalds) are juiced up for up to five years. When they 
started them in 2016 the company sold them based on an annual replacement 
program.

Dunno what their current specifications are except they have BlueTooth. One 
version circa 2018 had a 32-bit ARM Cortex M4F processor at 64 MHz with 512 KB 
flash and 64 KB SRAM. Some extreme computing power just to broadcast its 
location, in a restaurant where all the tables are line of sight from the 
counter (in most locations).

On Monday, August 31, 2020, 11:06:46 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
> -Original Message-
> From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-31-20 9:21 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter
> 
> > I have one of these.
> > Fowler 54-575-600 Electronic Edge Finder with Cylindrical Tip, 0.200" 
> > Stylus, 1/2" Shank
> >
> >  I use it with the Shumatech  DRO to find edges or the center of something 
> >round.  The DRO-350 has a feature for that.  Eventually
> I'll wire up a cable that can be sensed by LinuxCNC to detect the edge 
> automatically.
> 
> Was also thinking about a cable, however need to connect it each time 
> otherwise tool changer will slowly turn it into a twisted cable.
> Expect they are more or less equally good as 3D taster but much cheaper.
> 
Nicklas

You make a good point.  It should be possible to make some sort of holder which 
fits around a TT mill holder shank.  The holder could have a small Blue Tooth 
Low Power module that signals contact. 

The issue might be response time.  Or noise that delays the contact signal long 
enough to break the probe.

All that is required then is a battery and we really don't want it powered all 
the time.  So that's another issue that needs to be addressed.  Since the TT 
holders are pressed against the spindle for repeatability some sort of switch 
in the holder could also turn it on.

For other types of holders that use the draw bar to pull in the holder, the 
center pull tab could potentially be the connection that closes the circuit.  

John Dammeyer  
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