Re: [Emc-users] Advice needed

[John Thornton]

Here is an example of a simple HAL spool winder, not that it has 
anything to do with a beam saw just showing simple control of a device.

http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/examples.html

Do you have a photo of the beam saw?

JT

On 12/28/2015 6:30 PM, CNC wrote:
> Hello all
>
> I have an old beam saw that I need to replace the control on. It's all 
> digital IO.
>
> Would LinuxCNC be a good idea for this running as a PLC?
>
> I was thinking of using this as a text to get to learn LinuxCNC for when I 
> need to do a CNC router.
>
> If this will work, where do I start?


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Re: [Emc-users] Advice needed

[andy pugh]

On 29 December 2015 at 00:30, CNC  wrote:

> Would LinuxCNC be a good idea for this running as a PLC?

A PLC might be better.
LinuxCNC has a built-in software PLC, but the question would have to
be what the LinuxCNC part is adding to the system.

One area that it might win would be easy selection of setup files for
jobs from a familiar interface.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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[Emc-users] Advice needed

[CNC]

Hello all

I have an old beam saw that I need to replace the control on. It's all digital 
IO.

Would LinuxCNC be a good idea for this running as a PLC?

I was thinking of using this as a text to get to learn LinuxCNC for when I need 
to do a CNC router.

If this will work, where do I start?
-- 
Ethan Vos
Cutting Edge CNC
339 Fairway Garden
Newmarket, Ontario
L3X 1B4 

416-457-9119
www.cuttingedgecnc.weebly.com

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Jeff Pollard]

Hi,

  For a small run of boards, you could get a Mylar-Kapton stencil made for 
$50.00 from stencilsunlimited:

http://www.stencilsunlimited.com/mylar-and-kapton-smt-stencils-p-692.html

  Seems that trying to make a stencil would end up costing more in your time 
(unless you count that as free) than $50.00, without even considering getting 
the stock to make the stencil itself.  

  I have not used their mylar stencils, only the stainless steel stencils they 
make.  They do a good job and it's only a couple day turnaround.

Jeff



 From: marshl...@marshland.co.nz
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:49:15 +1200
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

 I'm going through the same process at the moment. I have sent my files to
 Seeed. My boards are small. 40x40 mm
 My small reflow oven is on its way at present.

 Seeed apparently also make stencils, however I haven't priced them as yet.

 I've been looking at solder paste and syringes and there is a myriad of them
 around. Can anyone recommend a good product ?

 I have a A3 HP plotter and was wondering if this be adapted to use a knife
 for making plastic stencils ?

 The other option was an 1W eBay Laser fitted to the plotter to cut the
 plastic. I'm using 1206's so nothing IS too small.
 Cheers Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[andy pugh]

On 23 September 2013 17:48, Jeff Pollard xylo...@hotmail.com wrote:

   For a small run of boards, you could get a Mylar-Kapton stencil made for 
 $50.00 from stencilsunlimited:

 http://www.stencilsunlimited.com/mylar-and-kapton-smt-stencils-p-692.html

Seeed have started to do stencils too:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/pcb-stencil-service-p-1391.html?cPath=70_71
Though I imagine they will take much longer to arrive.

I can't tell from the description what the material is.

I will point out that laser cutting stainless shim is also a great way
to make encoder discs.

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Jon Elson]

Gene Heskett wrote:
 So how much do they charge per sq inch?
   
You have to register on their on-line site, then you can do an automated
quote.  Just fill in the blanks for size, number of layers, copper 
thickness, substrate
material, line and trace spacing, and minimum hole size and annular 
ring the width
of the copper ring surrounding the hole.
 They can't work from eagles .brd files?
   
Probably, but they may charge for the conversion.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[andy pugh]

On 21 September 2013 22:59, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Don't these folks have an NRE fee too, Andy?

 This board is 6.05 wide, and 8  change inches long, not exactly one of
 todays postage stamps, at least 50 square inches. 2 layer only, lots of
 thru via's.

Vias are free with the only company I have tried:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-2-layers-p-835.html?cPath=70_71
Looks like about $8 per board, though there might be a problem with
the 8 dimension.

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Ralph Stirling]

I like oshpark.com.  $5/sq.in for 3 boards, free shipping, easy ordering, US 
mfg.

-- Ralph

andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:


On 21 September 2013 22:59, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Don't these folks have an NRE fee too, Andy?

 This board is 6.05 wide, and 8  change inches long, not exactly one of
 todays postage stamps, at least 50 square inches. 2 layer only, lots of
 thru via's.

Vias are free with the only company I have tried:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-2-layers-p-835.html?cPath=70_71
Looks like about $8 per board, though there might be a problem with
the 8 dimension.

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 22 September 2013 15:29:31 Ralph Stirling did opine:

 I like oshpark.com.  $5/sq.in for 3 boards, free shipping, easy
 ordering, US mfg.
 
 -- Ralph
 
 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 21 September 2013 22:59, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  Don't these folks have an NRE fee too, Andy?
  
  This board is 6.05 wide, and 8  change inches long, not exactly one
  of todays postage stamps, at least 50 square inches. 2 layer only,
  lots of thru via's.
 
 Vias are free with the only company I have tried:
 http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-2-layers-p-835.html?
 cPath=70_71 Looks like about $8 per board, though there might be a
 problem with the 8 dimension.
 
That looks like $327 for 3 ea of the 2 boards. $107 per pair of boards 
seems like about $80 a pair too high.  I think seeedstudio would give me 10 
of each for under $400.  These boards have not been populated and built, 
ever.  So if patches need to be done, then I'd have to do the cut  paste 
using wrapping wire. There is a tsop or BGA CPLD on one of them,  several 
std dip's. My best guess is that $50 for the pair of bare boards is more 
than the market will support.  But I can't see doing it for much less 
either.

 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Marshland Engineering]

I'm going through the same process at the moment.  I have sent my files to 
Seeed. My boards are small. 40x40 mm
My small reflow oven is on its way at present.

Seeed apparently also make stencils, however I haven't priced them as yet.

I've been looking at solder paste and syringes and there is a myriad of them 
around. Can anyone recommend a good product ?

I have a A3 HP plotter and was wondering if this be adapted to use a knife 
for making plastic stencils ?

The other option was an 1W eBay Laser fitted to the plotter to cut the 
plastic. I'm using 1206's so nothing IS too small.
Cheers Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Ralph Stirling]

I have routed many stencils out of very thin (.005) FR4 unclad pcb material.
Unfortunately, I can't get any more (Isola Laminates doesn't seem to have
any demand for it from real customers any more), so I'm going to switch to
Kapton film, either .0075 or .010 thick.

I've bought syringes of paste from FCT Assembly, but have more recently
figured out how to fill my own syringes from the more common 500g jars
of paste.  I take one syringe, preferably a little smaller OD than the ID of
my desired dispensing syringe, and cut off the bottom.  I press the open
bottom syringe into the jar of paste, then push the slug of paste into
the dispensing syringe.  With a reasonably small gauge blunt needle you
can put paste on small one-off boards quicker than you can make a stencil.
For repeat boards, or ones with finer pitch parts, the stencil is nice.

-- Ralph

From: Marshland Engineering [marshl...@marshland.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 5:49 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

I'm going through the same process at the moment.  I have sent my files to
Seeed. My boards are small. 40x40 mm
My small reflow oven is on its way at present.

Seeed apparently also make stencils, however I haven't priced them as yet.

I've been looking at solder paste and syringes and there is a myriad of them
around. Can anyone recommend a good product ?

I have a A3 HP plotter and was wondering if this be adapted to use a knife
for making plastic stencils ?

The other option was an 1W eBay Laser fitted to the plotter to cut the
plastic. I'm using 1206's so nothing IS too small.
Cheers Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, Marshland Engineering marshl...@marshland.co.nz wrote:

 I have a A3 HP plotter and was wondering if this be adapted
 to use a knife for making plastic stencils ?

-

Yes, lots of people have done that. There are knife holders made to fit in 
place of the pen. You may have to tie the clamp closed so it won't pop out from 
the pull on the blade and it takes some careful attention (typically from the 
cutting software) to always turn the right ways so the knife follows along 
properly instead of cutting loops out of the non-waste areas when making tight 
turns. Search youtube for hp plotter vinyl cutter

Another thing is since the knife holders generally don't fit the holder 
stations (and if it's tied into the carriage), you have to ensure the HPGL code 
has no commands to store or change pens. If the clip holds the knife holder 
securely you can physically modify the holder station and plotter housing so 
pen change commands won't matter. 

A very nice thing about those old HP plotters is they're completely system 
agnostic. All they need is a serial port they can be set to match communication 
with. What was very nice about PLT files was they were usually small files that 
could be put on a floppy then mailed and an exact plot run out by the 
recipient. Easier than rolling up a large drawing and hoping United States Pet 
Snail didn't fold it in half.

Sending an HPGL PLT file to the plotter is easy. With any Microsoft OS, all you 
need is a command prompt and use the COPY command to send the file to the right 
serial port. Should work the same way in Linux by sending the file as text data 
to the serial port. I don't know if the plotters can be drip fed commands in 
realtime or if the entire plot has to be created then sent. AFAIK the plotter 
likely ACKs the receipt of each command then RTS the next. I just made the plt 
files and used my batch file in a command prompt window from XP. It worked so I 
didn't bother with the gritty details. ;-)

HPGL files use only standard low ASCII characters. HPGL/2 mixes in some 
extended ASCII characters so to write them by hand you need a text editor with 
extended ASCII support. Might have to send them to the port as binary data 
instead of text.

I used to have an HP 7470 which I used to plot cutting patterns for a bandsaw. 
Thought I still had the batch files I used to print them, couldn't find them, 
unless they're on another computer.

If you want to get fancy you could build a knife with powered turning, but 
figuring out how to coordinate it with the HPGL code would be an issue. A 
wedge between the computer and plotter and knife turn commands interleaved 
with the standard HPGL code could work, with the wedge running interception 
so only valid HPGL goes to the plotter and the knife commands go to that system.

Could just use the mechanism and motors and completely replace the electronics 
to use with a powered rotation knife as a 3.5 axis CNC. (The .5 for knife 
up/down.)

One mechanical issue with those plotters which slide the paper back and forth 
is the pinch rollers get flat spotted if someone ignores the warning label to 
not leave the paper lever in the loaded position when not using the plotter. I 
tried to find new rollers for mine but never could. I thought about making a 
mold to cast semi-rigid urethane onto the old roller cores but it wasn't that 
vital, just put some tiny wiggles in the lines it drew.

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Sun, 9/22/13, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] advice needed
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, September 22, 2013, 7:03 PM
 
 I have routed many stencils out of
 very thin (.005) FR4 unclad pcb material.
 Unfortunately, I can't get any more (Isola Laminates doesn't
 seem to have any demand for it from real customers any more), so I'm
 going to switch to Kapton film, either .0075 or .010 thick.

---
Many, many ways to make PCB solder paste stencils.

http://hackaday.com/?s=stencil

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Jon Elson]

Marshland Engineering wrote:
 I'm going through the same process at the moment.  I have sent my files to 
 Seeed. My boards are small. 40x40 mm
 My small reflow oven is on its way at present.

 Seeed apparently also make stencils, however I haven't priced them as yet.

 I've been looking at solder paste and syringes and there is a myriad of them 
 around. Can anyone recommend a good product ?
   
Leaded or lead-free?  For leaded, almost anything will work, but MannCorp
is a distributor for a good line of leaded paste.  I've also bought some 
paste
on eBay and it worked pretty well.  For lead-free, the best stuff is Warton
Metals from the UK, but it is very expensive to import it.  I just got
some new stuff on eBay, but haven't tried it yet.
 I have a A3 HP plotter and was wondering if this be adapted to use a knife 
 for making plastic stencils ?
   
That is pretty iffy.  I etch stencils in brass shim stock using PCB 
technology.
First, one of the major challenges is finding the right size apertures 
for various
size parts to avoid solder bridges.  I have to reduce the stencil area to be
about 50% of the pad area for best results.  Then, you have to have accurate
knife placement on a machine not designed for cutting forces.
 The other option was an 1W eBay Laser fitted to the plotter to cut the 
 plastic. I'm using 1206's so nothing IS too small.
Maybe, but 1W power input on a laser is not 1 W power out.  I'd be skeptical
of these cheap lasers sold on eBay.  Then you have to focus it without
the lens self-destructing.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Jon Elson]

Ralph Stirling wrote:
 I have routed many stencils out of very thin (.005) FR4 unclad pcb material.
 Unfortunately, I can't get any more (Isola Laminates doesn't seem to have
 any demand for it from real customers any more), so I'm going to switch to
 Kapton film, either .0075 or .010 thick.
   
I use .003 brass shim stock.

Jon

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[Emc-users] advice needed

[Gene Heskett]

I would like to try making an expansion board for the coco users.  Unforch, 
its about 1.5 bigger in the Y direction than my mill can move.

Its been suggested I make it with registration pins so that I can turn the 
board 180 after milling half of it, then milling the other half.  Since the 
etch files are north of 6 megs each, with run times measured in days, would 
it be possible to tap into the limit detection in the TP somehow, to make 
it disable the stepgen and raise the tool 5 thou, but pretend its still 
running, so LCNC doesn't know the motor is stopped, then on the back stroke 
as it comes back into range, run the x axis to the new coord, lower the 
tool and resume cutting on the new line?

Is this something that the gcode recode utility someone mentioned this past 
week could do, making 2 files out of 1 perhaps if the right magic 
incantation was used?

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: http://gene.homelinux.net:6309/gene should be up!

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Andy Pugh]

 On 21 Sep 2013, at 20:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
 
 would like to try making an expansion board for the coco users.

Have you considered just having boards made? A lot less trouble. Milling makes 
sense if you want the board very quickly, but you can have boards made in China 
for a couple of dollars each with resist and silk screen in quantities of 10 or 
so. 
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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 21 September 2013 17:48:46 Andy Pugh did opine:

  On 21 Sep 2013, at 20:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  
  would like to try making an expansion board for the coco users.
 
 Have you considered just having boards made? A lot less trouble. Milling
 makes sense if you want the board very quickly, but you can have boards
 made in China for a couple of dollars each with resist and silk screen
 in quantities of 10 or so.

Don't these folks have an NRE fee too, Andy?

This board is 6.05 wide, and 8  change inches long, not exactly one of 
todays postage stamps, at least 50 square inches. 2 layer only, lots of 
thru via's.

The whole kit is actually 2 boards with a short 40 pin ribbon connector, 
but the other board is small enough I could make it as its around 4.1 
square.

But I can't plate thru holes either, so thats best farmed out too I expect.

Can you suggest a shop I could email for a query?

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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My web page: http://gene.homelinux.net:6309/gene should be up!

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Jon Elson]

Gene Heskett wrote:
 Don't these folks have an NRE fee too, Andy?

   
E-Teknet waives the NRE fee on orders of ten or less, as a prototype.  Then,
if you make more boards later, they also waive the NRE fee, as long as
there are no changes.  They do sell by the square inch.
 This board is 6.05 wide, and 8  change inches long, not exactly one of 
 todays postage stamps, at least 50 square inches. 2 layer only, lots of 
 thru via's.

   
Does your board actually need to be 6 x 8?  That is a large board by 
today's
standards.  You might be able to make it quite a bit smaller.  There is 
no charge
for through holes and vias.  E-teknet.com has been VERY good for me, not the
cheapest, but the quality has been excellent.  I have had them do over
200 different designs, never had a problem!  That is more than I can say for
a number of US manufacturers that I caught skipping the electrical test when
I had paid for it.  That is a blacklist crime in my book.
E-teknet (like most other manufacturers) needs Gerber photoplot and Excellon
drill files.  Most charge extra if you provide other forms of design data.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] advice needed

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 22 September 2013 00:25:35 Jon Elson did opine:

 Gene Heskett wrote:
  Don't these folks have an NRE fee too, Andy?
 
 E-Teknet waives the NRE fee on orders of ten or less, as a prototype. 
 Then, if you make more boards later, they also waive the NRE fee, as
 long as there are no changes.  They do sell by the square inch.
 
  This board is 6.05 wide, and 8  change inches long, not exactly one
  of todays postage stamps, at least 50 square inches. 2 layer only,
  lots of thru via's.
 
 Does your board actually need to be 6 x 8?  That is a large board by
 today's
 standards.  You might be able to make it quite a bit smaller.  There is
 no charge
 for through holes and vias.  E-teknet.com has been VERY good for me, not
 the cheapest, but the quality has been excellent.  I have had them do
 over 200 different designs, never had a problem!  That is more than I
 can say for a number of US manufacturers that I caught skipping the
 electrical test when I had paid for it.  That is a blacklist crime in
 my book.

Absolutely!

 E-teknet (like most other manufacturers) needs Gerber photoplot and
 Excellon drill files.  Most charge extra if you provide other forms of
 design data.
 
 Jon

1. The width of the board is largely determined by a row of IC's located at 
both ends of a 40 pin, dual row .1 spacing socket for additional boards 
with that finger stock pattern on the end.  IOW the old, 30 year old, stuff 
has to fit it, which determines the length of the socket.

2. The length is largely determined by there being 8 such sockets, spaced 
on a nominally 1 grid because that is the thickness of the cartridge case 
that contains these boards.  Traces are thin now, and isolation cuts are 
about .004 now, so it just isn't practical to think of a shrink unless we 
redo every accessory board ever made for the old girl.  As a hobbiest 
effort, the cost of that to the potential user makes that a non-starter.

So how much do they charge per sq inch?

They can't work from eagles .brd files?

I'll see if I can get some answers from their site tomorrow late.  I have 
to put a fresh regulator and brushes in the GMC's alternator tomorrow, 
after 120k miles something is getting funkity, I would have today but 2+ 
of precip changed my mind for me.

Thanks for the name Jon.

Cheers, Gene
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Your goose is cooked.
(Your current chick is burned up too!)
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