Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 25 May 2016 09:26:49 andy pugh wrote:

> On 25 May 2016 at 14:13, Rick Lair  wrote:
> > As for the actual topic, I see our guys constantly fiddling with the
> > spindle speed override potentiometer, up/down/up/down when
> > re-cutting the hardened D-2 rolls that we re-condition,
>
> This sounds like my idea of deliberately applying a dither to the
> speed command via HAL.
>
> Have you considered asking them if they would like that facility?

Yes, we'd like.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Todd Zuercher]

I'm in Wayne co (more NE). We have the spiders too, but people really do rarely 
get bit by them considering how many there really are.  

I was a little weirded out late last summer on a dry evening after dark I was 
out in the yard with an LED flash light.  I noticed a lot of glimmering 
reflections everywhere in the grass that almost looked like dew (every 8 inches 
or so).  Took a closer look, and found that it was the eyes of big old wolf 
spiders reflecting the light.  Talk about the heebiejeebies.  I don't mind 
spiders, but just thinking about how many of them there are out there, wow.

- Original Message -
From: "Rick Lair" <r...@superiorroll.com>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 9:11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

The only real poisonous things around my parts are the spiders, Brown
Recluse, and Wolf spiders to be exact, and boy are they big and pack a
punch, never heard of anyone dying, but their venom is necrotic, so it
just kills all the tissue it comes into contact with. And at the size of
a half dollar most times, they are hard to miss.

Rick

On 05/25/2016 08:40 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Yes, we still have copperheads, water moccasins, and coral snakes in the US, 
> but by far the most common poisonous snakes has to be the various kinds of 
> rattlers.  To be honest here in northern Ohio I see very few snakes, except 
> garter snakes yeesh they are everywhere you look.  Not that they arn't 
> around, just don't see em.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:55:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
>
> On Wednesday 25 May 2016 07:29:08 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
>> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers
>> come with a warning alarm.
>>
> But not all, this seems to be copperhead country here in WV.  No alarms 
> on them critters. The BIL used to kill 15 to 20 a year in the barns at 
> his place.
>
> Neighbor across the street here a few years back lost a brand new bunny, 
> & eventually killed the copperhead that came back for seconds but by 
> then the bunny's were too big.  We have a strip of grass across the back 
> road that one of us with a rider keeps mowed as that seems to discourage 
> them from crossing nearly bare ground to hunt in our yards. I snarled up 
> something that might have been a copperhead with my rider 3 or 4 years 
> ago when I was over there mowing.  Made a racket, but beat it to a pulp. 
> Looked around but never found the head for +(positive) ID.
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Chris Morley]

I have a branch somewhere that has a variable spindle speed selection 
incorporated into the motion Component.
The variance range and period are configurable. I wanted it to use a m code or 
g code to set it ..it was roughly patterned after okuma's if someone wants to 
finish the gcode part

Chris M

- Reply message -
From: "andy pugh" <bodge...@gmail.com>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
Date: Wed, May 25, 2016 7:09 AM


On 25 May 2016 at 14:32, Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com> wrote:

> Are you thinking of a new component then?

There is no need for a new component, it could be easily done with siggen:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/siggen.9.html
Wire the spindle speed request into the "offset" pin and run the
spindle control from the output, enable and alter the dither amplitude
from a slider in PyVCP (or even enable a fixed amplitude with the mist
checkbox, for example).

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Roland Jollivet]

On 25 May 2016 at 16:03, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 25 May 2016 at 14:32, Rick Lair  wrote:
>
> > Are you thinking of a new component then?
>
> There is no need for a new component, it could be easily done with siggen:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/siggen.9.html
> Wire the spindle speed request into the "offset" pin and run the
> spindle control from the output, enable and alter the dither amplitude
> from a slider in PyVCP (or even enable a fixed amplitude with the mist
> checkbox, for example).
>
> --
>
>
I Don't know if you thought of it yourself, but Haas do do that on their
lathes;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXR2wDDFFm4
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[andy pugh]

On 25 May 2016 at 14:32, Rick Lair  wrote:

> Are you thinking of a new component then?

There is no need for a new component, it could be easily done with siggen:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/siggen.9.html
Wire the spindle speed request into the "offset" pin and run the
spindle control from the output, enable and alter the dither amplitude
from a slider in PyVCP (or even enable a fixed amplitude with the mist
checkbox, for example).

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Rick Lair]

Good Morning Andy,

This operation is done on different machines on the other side of the
shop for the most part, all of which still have the original Cincinnati
Milacron control on them. I have seen on a rare occasion them do this on
the LCNC turning centers, but not all that often.

Are you thinking of a new component then?

Rick



On 05/25/2016 09:26 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 25 May 2016 at 14:13, Rick Lair  wrote:
>> As for the actual topic, I see our guys constantly fiddling with the
>> spindle speed override potentiometer, up/down/up/down when re-cutting
>> the hardened D-2 rolls that we re-condition,
> This sounds like my idea of deliberately applying a dither to the
> speed command via HAL.
>
> Have you considered asking them if they would like that facility?
>

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[andy pugh]

On 25 May 2016 at 14:13, Rick Lair  wrote:
> As for the actual topic, I see our guys constantly fiddling with the
> spindle speed override potentiometer, up/down/up/down when re-cutting
> the hardened D-2 rolls that we re-condition,

This sounds like my idea of deliberately applying a dither to the
speed command via HAL.

Have you considered asking them if they would like that facility?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Rick Lair]

As for the actual topic, I see our guys constantly fiddling with the
spindle speed override potentiometer, up/down/up/down when re-cutting
the hardened D-2 rolls that we re-condition, it eliminates the wavy
finish, similar to what you are seeing in the MDF.

Rick

On 05/25/2016 08:40 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Yes, we still have copperheads, water moccasins, and coral snakes in the US, 
> but by far the most common poisonous snakes has to be the various kinds of 
> rattlers.  To be honest here in northern Ohio I see very few snakes, except 
> garter snakes yeesh they are everywhere you look.  Not that they arn't 
> around, just don't see em.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:55:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
>
> On Wednesday 25 May 2016 07:29:08 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
>> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers
>> come with a warning alarm.
>>
> But not all, this seems to be copperhead country here in WV.  No alarms 
> on them critters. The BIL used to kill 15 to 20 a year in the barns at 
> his place.
>
> Neighbor across the street here a few years back lost a brand new bunny, 
> & eventually killed the copperhead that came back for seconds but by 
> then the bunny's were too big.  We have a strip of grass across the back 
> road that one of us with a rider keeps mowed as that seems to discourage 
> them from crossing nearly bare ground to hunt in our yards. I snarled up 
> something that might have been a copperhead with my rider 3 or 4 years 
> ago when I was over there mowing.  Made a racket, but beat it to a pulp. 
> Looked around but never found the head for +(positive) ID.
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Rick Lair]

Where at in northern ohio would you be talking about?

I'm in northwest ohio.


Rick

On 05/25/2016 08:40 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Yes, we still have copperheads, water moccasins, and coral snakes in the US, 
> but by far the most common poisonous snakes has to be the various kinds of 
> rattlers.  To be honest here in northern Ohio I see very few snakes, except 
> garter snakes yeesh they are everywhere you look.  Not that they arn't 
> around, just don't see em.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:55:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
>
> On Wednesday 25 May 2016 07:29:08 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
>> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers
>> come with a warning alarm.
>>
> But not all, this seems to be copperhead country here in WV.  No alarms 
> on them critters. The BIL used to kill 15 to 20 a year in the barns at 
> his place.
>
> Neighbor across the street here a few years back lost a brand new bunny, 
> & eventually killed the copperhead that came back for seconds but by 
> then the bunny's were too big.  We have a strip of grass across the back 
> road that one of us with a rider keeps mowed as that seems to discourage 
> them from crossing nearly bare ground to hunt in our yards. I snarled up 
> something that might have been a copperhead with my rider 3 or 4 years 
> ago when I was over there mowing.  Made a racket, but beat it to a pulp. 
> Looked around but never found the head for +(positive) ID.
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Rick Lair]

The only real poisonous things around my parts are the spiders, Brown
Recluse, and Wolf spiders to be exact, and boy are they big and pack a
punch, never heard of anyone dying, but their venom is necrotic, so it
just kills all the tissue it comes into contact with. And at the size of
a half dollar most times, they are hard to miss.

Rick

On 05/25/2016 08:40 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Yes, we still have copperheads, water moccasins, and coral snakes in the US, 
> but by far the most common poisonous snakes has to be the various kinds of 
> rattlers.  To be honest here in northern Ohio I see very few snakes, except 
> garter snakes yeesh they are everywhere you look.  Not that they arn't 
> around, just don't see em.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:55:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
>
> On Wednesday 25 May 2016 07:29:08 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
>> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers
>> come with a warning alarm.
>>
> But not all, this seems to be copperhead country here in WV.  No alarms 
> on them critters. The BIL used to kill 15 to 20 a year in the barns at 
> his place.
>
> Neighbor across the street here a few years back lost a brand new bunny, 
> & eventually killed the copperhead that came back for seconds but by 
> then the bunny's were too big.  We have a strip of grass across the back 
> road that one of us with a rider keeps mowed as that seems to discourage 
> them from crossing nearly bare ground to hunt in our yards. I snarled up 
> something that might have been a copperhead with my rider 3 or 4 years 
> ago when I was over there mowing.  Made a racket, but beat it to a pulp. 
> Looked around but never found the head for +(positive) ID.
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

-- 
Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Todd Zuercher]

Yes, we still have copperheads, water moccasins, and coral snakes in the US, 
but by far the most common poisonous snakes has to be the various kinds of 
rattlers.  To be honest here in northern Ohio I see very few snakes, except 
garter snakes yeesh they are everywhere you look.  Not that they arn't around, 
just don't see em.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:55:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

On Wednesday 25 May 2016 07:29:08 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers
> come with a warning alarm.
>
But not all, this seems to be copperhead country here in WV.  No alarms 
on them critters. The BIL used to kill 15 to 20 a year in the barns at 
his place.

Neighbor across the street here a few years back lost a brand new bunny, 
& eventually killed the copperhead that came back for seconds but by 
then the bunny's were too big.  We have a strip of grass across the back 
road that one of us with a rider keeps mowed as that seems to discourage 
them from crossing nearly bare ground to hunt in our yards. I snarled up 
something that might have been a copperhead with my rider 3 or 4 years 
ago when I was over there mowing.  Made a racket, but beat it to a pulp. 
Looked around but never found the head for +(positive) ID.
[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 25 May 2016 07:29:08 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers
> come with a warning alarm.
>
But not all, this seems to be copperhead country here in WV.  No alarms 
on them critters. The BIL used to kill 15 to 20 a year in the barns at 
his place.

Neighbor across the street here a few years back lost a brand new bunny, 
& eventually killed the copperhead that came back for seconds but by 
then the bunny's were too big.  We have a strip of grass across the back 
road that one of us with a rider keeps mowed as that seems to discourage 
them from crossing nearly bare ground to hunt in our yards. I snarled up 
something that might have been a copperhead with my rider 3 or 4 years 
ago when I was over there mowing.  Made a racket, but beat it to a pulp. 
Looked around but never found the head for +(positive) ID.
[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[andy pugh]

On 25 May 2016 at 12:29, Todd  Zuercher
 wrote:
> Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers come 
> with a warning alarm.

Or Ireland, where there are no snakes at all, allegedy due to St
Patrick. But in fact not.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140315-saint-patricks-day-2014-snakes-ireland-nation/

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 25 May 2016 05:25:33 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 24.05.16 17:44, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 24 May 2016 17:19:42 Bruce Layne wrote:
> > >  I love the look and feel of walnut, but the dust is very
> > > aggravating.  Much more so than other North American hardwoods
> > > I've used.  However, the dust from some South American hardwoods
> > > can KILL YOU, as in DEAD!  And some Australian woods are even
> > > worse.  It seems that a lot of stuff in Australia can kill you.
>
> It's not a land for wusses, I'll admit. In the Royal Flying Doctor
> Service's list of the world's 25 most venomous snakes, the first 11
> are Australian. (The Cobra comes 12th.) Some of the spiders are best
> not aggravated, and the blue-ringed octopus is best avoided. Heck,
> even the jellyfish up north keep people out of the water for months
> every year. Up around Darwin, the crocs get a feed on a tourist or two
> pretty much every year, including one tipped out of his rowboat in the
> last week.
>
> Mind you, dad was bitten by a Redback Spider, and though he was
> bedridden for days, it didn't kill him - just cured his arthritis for
> many years thereafter.
>
> I thought that the Brown Snake we have here in Victoria is the one
> which is 21st, not the one which is 2nd most venomous - not least when
> I squatted down on very short grass to watch a big one tootle past
> within a few metres. Ah ... errr ... the map says I'm wrong. Oops.
>
> > >   Most wood dusts are
> > > irritants, some are allergens of varying degrees, some are
> > > carcinogenic and some are directly toxic.
> > >
> > >  http://www.tedswoodworking.com/toxic-wood.htm
>
> At first I figured the Blackwood in the list would only be African,
> and our Acacia Blackwood (Acacia Melanoxylon) would be harmless, but
> on wikipedia, I read: "The tree's twigs and its bark are used to
> poison fish as a way of fishing."
>
> No-one told our cattle that, because they browsed so hard on the stuff
> that regrowth didn't have a chance. The leaves must be less iffy,
> then.
>
> > > http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxi
> > >city
> >
> > Please turn off the html Bruce.  And I forgot the international
> > nature of this list, so there may well be more toxic woods about,
> > just not local to me.
>
> That's the tricky bit when we hear a common name, and have to stop to
> think "That's not our Blackwood, I reckon.". I did, though, buy a
> facemask with microfilter and fan years ago, for woodworking, just in
> case.
>
> Erik

I've not resorted to that yet, the vacuum cleaner on the sander seems to 
be doing well, and I have a 20" box fan with a hepa filter taped to its 
back that I change a couple times a year, hanging off the end of a 
garage door track, and it keeps the air pretty clean.  Never turned off, 
its been hanging there 8 years now.  When that filter starts to clog up, 
I expect even micron sized dust is caught, and at the moment its well  
loaded.  I need to make an alu angle frame to hold the filter since the 
masking tape is pretty hard to remove after its been stuck there for 6 
months. Fix it to just drop a fresh filter in from the top.  Mill a 
wooden channel maybe.  There I go again, thinking out loud without 
enough coffee in my bloodstream...
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Todd Zuercher]

Ah, Nice to be here in America where most of the venomous slitherers come with 
a warning alarm.

- Original Message -
From: "Erik Christiansen" <dva...@internode.on.net>
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 5:25:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

On 24.05.16 17:44, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 24 May 2016 17:19:42 Bruce Layne wrote:
> >  I love the look and feel of walnut, but the dust is very
> > aggravating.  Much more so than other North American hardwoods I've
> > used.  However, the dust from some South American hardwoods can KILL
> > YOU, as in DEAD!  And some Australian woods are even worse.  It seems
> > that a lot of stuff in Australia can kill you.

It's not a land for wusses, I'll admit. In the Royal Flying Doctor
Service's list of the world's 25 most venomous snakes, the first 11 are
Australian. (The Cobra comes 12th.) Some of the spiders are best not
aggravated, and the blue-ringed octopus is best avoided. Heck, even the
jellyfish up north keep people out of the water for months every year.
Up around Darwin, the crocs get a feed on a tourist or two pretty much
every year, including one tipped out of his rowboat in the last week.

Mind you, dad was bitten by a Redback Spider, and though he was
bedridden for days, it didn't kill him - just cured his arthritis for
many years thereafter.

I thought that the Brown Snake we have here in Victoria is the one which
is 21st, not the one which is 2nd most venomous - not least when I
squatted down on very short grass to watch a big one tootle past within
a few metres. Ah ... errr ... the map says I'm wrong. Oops.

> >   Most wood dusts are
> > irritants, some are allergens of varying degrees, some are
> > carcinogenic and some are directly toxic.
> >
> >  http://www.tedswoodworking.com/toxic-wood.htm

At first I figured the Blackwood in the list would only be African, and
our Acacia Blackwood (Acacia Melanoxylon) would be harmless, but on
wikipedia, I read: "The tree's twigs and its bark are used to poison
fish as a way of fishing."

No-one told our cattle that, because they browsed so hard on the stuff
that regrowth didn't have a chance. The leaves must be less iffy, then.

> > 
> > http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity
> 
> Please turn off the html Bruce.  And I forgot the international nature of 
> this list, so there may well be more toxic woods about, just not local 
> to me.

That's the tricky bit when we hear a common name, and have to stop to
think "That's not our Blackwood, I reckon.". I did, though, buy a
facemask with microfilter and fan years ago, for woodworking, just in
case.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 25 May 2016 02:38:57 Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> If I was that hard up for a vacuum nozzle reducer... lathe + random
> bits of PVC pipe and other stuff laying about the place. ;) We know
> you have a lathe...
>
Nah, the darned thing is busted again.  Stripped the teeth off the drive 
belt.  Probably more than 10 belts its done that to now. I was so PO'd 
that I haven't even looked to see if I had another spare, I just walked 
away because if I had pulled it out to start disassembly #21, I may have 
just taken a 4 lb hammer & made scrap iron out of it.

I don't care how much lipstick you put on it, that thing is still a pig 
that should be been sold as a 1x12 as the drive system, even when 
replaced with all metal parts as that one now has, that cogged belt 
simply cannot transmit the torque needed to take a cut of steel off big 
enough to cool the insert once the diameter of the workpiece exceeds 
3/4".  And the cogged belt in it now is a different, newer profile with 
3x the horsepower rateing compared to the more rounded tooth profile of 
the OEM belt.  I even put a jackscrew in to block the shaft and mounting 
flex from ever flexing enough to give it some slack, and it was 
tensioned to the no slack condition on both sides of the pulley.  That 
setup can be had on flea bay, advertised as speed reducer fotr the 
7x10-12-14's, which I do not need since the  jackshaft is already a 3/1 
reduction from the OEM motor, and this motor is a 1 HP treadmill, 
running on one of Jons PWM Servo amps with nominally 107 volts dc & at 
least 10 amps CCW available. 1400 rpms at the spindle sound like 10 
grand at the motor.  With the backgear in high.  About 800 revs in low.

If I fix it again, the lower pulley will be replaced by one with at least 
10 more cogs in order to distribute the load over 5 more belt cogs. This 
belt is available in 5 cog increments, so I'd be in adjustment range if 
I order a belt 10 cogs longer, and a pulley with 10 more teeth. Let the 
motor slow down to about 60% and grunt some more, Jon's amplifier can 
certainly do it.

How does that math work when you intend to stay within say 2mm of the 
same center to center distance?  10 more teeth on the lower, smaller 
pulley would bring it up to a much better match to the upper pulleys 
size, which is IIRC currently a 28 tooth.

OTOH, I am about to go get a bigger lathe, which means I start the cnc 
conversion all over again, possibly even using some of the motors on 
this one.  This one was a nice, VERY educational conversion but I've 
beat this horse to death too often asking it to do what it was 
advertised to do, swing and cut a 3" OD part when it was sold as a 7".

And I have one of those 8mm ball screws with the teeny flangeless nut, 
for the crossfeed conversion, left yet.  The problem with it is 
designing a swarf free environment as the nut has no felt wipers.  I did 
make some for the toy mill, but that needs a redesign as the felt crush 
translates to backlash and its a cast iron b---h to tighten the nuts to 
take that back out. BTDT, 2x already.

I'll need a longer Z screw of course, if I even change it.  The half nut 
is all new and very tight. The question is how big a motor will it take 
to run it w/o the reduced friction ball nut. More learning curve for 
sure.  Like how can LCNC track the carriages position when the ball nut 
has been disengaged? That will probably cost a few $heckels for 
something to measure it and report to LCNC, the cost of which have to be 
balanced against the cost of a ball screw permanently engaged as then 
the stepper's track it for you.  

Eventually the ball screw is the better deal in my mind.  But we'll see.

One thing is for sure, that pricey new line powered driver and the 910 oz 
motor on the mill's Z drive is amazing, it throws that head around at 70 
IPM without a complaint, or counterweight springs, with ridiculous accel 
ratio settings.  It can follow a rigid tap peck that drives it at 30 
IPM, backlash and all, without a following error.

Lots of questions yet to be asked.  And I ramble, trying to think 90 days 
on down the log. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 24.05.16 17:44, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 24 May 2016 17:19:42 Bruce Layne wrote:
> >  I love the look and feel of walnut, but the dust is very
> > aggravating.  Much more so than other North American hardwoods I've
> > used.  However, the dust from some South American hardwoods can KILL
> > YOU, as in DEAD!  And some Australian woods are even worse.  It seems
> > that a lot of stuff in Australia can kill you.

It's not a land for wusses, I'll admit. In the Royal Flying Doctor
Service's list of the world's 25 most venomous snakes, the first 11 are
Australian. (The Cobra comes 12th.) Some of the spiders are best not
aggravated, and the blue-ringed octopus is best avoided. Heck, even the
jellyfish up north keep people out of the water for months every year.
Up around Darwin, the crocs get a feed on a tourist or two pretty much
every year, including one tipped out of his rowboat in the last week.

Mind you, dad was bitten by a Redback Spider, and though he was
bedridden for days, it didn't kill him - just cured his arthritis for
many years thereafter.

I thought that the Brown Snake we have here in Victoria is the one which
is 21st, not the one which is 2nd most venomous - not least when I
squatted down on very short grass to watch a big one tootle past within
a few metres. Ah ... errr ... the map says I'm wrong. Oops.

> >   Most wood dusts are
> > irritants, some are allergens of varying degrees, some are
> > carcinogenic and some are directly toxic.
> >
> >  http://www.tedswoodworking.com/toxic-wood.htm

At first I figured the Blackwood in the list would only be African, and
our Acacia Blackwood (Acacia Melanoxylon) would be harmless, but on
wikipedia, I read: "The tree's twigs and its bark are used to poison
fish as a way of fishing."

No-one told our cattle that, because they browsed so hard on the stuff
that regrowth didn't have a chance. The leaves must be less iffy, then.

> > 
> > http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity
> 
> Please turn off the html Bruce.  And I forgot the international nature of 
> this list, so there may well be more toxic woods about, just not local 
> to me.

That's the tricky bit when we hear a common name, and have to stop to
think "That's not our Blackwood, I reckon.". I did, though, buy a
facemask with microfilter and fan years ago, for woodworking, just in
case.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gregg Eshelman]

If I was that hard up for a vacuum nozzle reducer... lathe + random bits of PVC 
pipe and other stuff laying about the place. ;) We know you have a lathe...

 
  From: Gene Heskett <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 3:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
   
My vacuum nozzle is circa an inch in diameter, so it also sucked up quite a few 
of the ebony parts.  But the lid on the 
bucket was never snapped on, so shutting off the vac and lifting the lid 
to retrieve the teeny parts was quick and easy.  it could have been even 
smaller in diameter, but I ran out of space for down step adaptors, and 
its a 35 mile round trip to Lowes or a 50 mile trip to home depot for 
more parts.

So obviously that gets done when I need something else too. If I happen 
to remember it that is. :)
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gregg Eshelman]

85 revolutions per inch, times the number of flutes = cuts per inch. A two 
flute cutter would be chomping off 0.005882 per flute per cut. A single flute 
would be 0.011765
Using a down spiral cutter, where does the waste go? Even with a super strong 
vacuum system it could carry around and pack up in the flutes on the advancing 
side instead of being ejected on the trailing side.

The only place I know of where Pi = 3 is in Bob Shaw's Wooden Spaceships 
trilogy, a fact revealed at the end of the third book. (Too bad he died before 
writing the 4th book.)

 
  From: Bruce Layne <linux...@thinkingdevices.com>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 11:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
   
I like Chris' analysis, but when I do the math, I get 85 revolutions per 
inch instead of 8.5 revolutions per inch.

Also, my pi is 3.1416, so I get 1.273 revolutions per inch when rolling 
the .250" diameter cutter.  Chris got 1.33, so his pi must be 3, but I'd 
say that's within engineering tolerance.  :-)



On 05/24/2016 01:10 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Lets see, 200ipm turning 17,000rpm comers to 8.5 revolutions per inch.
>
> Think about it this way, if you rolled the 1/4 router but over the
> wood you would have 1.33 revolutions per inch.  it would not cut at
> all because there is no relative motion between cutter and wood.  But
> you are getting to close to this and the spiral pattern of the cutter
> is showing up in the wood.  Vibrations at a frequency that is small
> multiple of the repeats of the spiral pattern of the cutter
>
> Try the same cut at a MUCH slower speed.
>
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gregg Eshelman]

Feed rate, RPM, depth of cut, not enough rigidity in your router frame. All 
those can cause chatter marks like that. Could be flex in the table or the MDF 
isn't secured well enough. How is it held down?
What is the recommended chip load per tooth for the cutter you are using? Its 
manufacturer should have that data. Google mdf feed speed calculator
If you're breaking cutters you are pushing something too hard/fast. 1/2" thick 
MDF in a single pass with a 1/4" cutter is a tough job. You might find you can 
make the cuts faster in two higher speed passes than in one full depth pass at 
a lower feed rate. 



 
  From: Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 8:14 AM
 Subject: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
   
Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to 
prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in fact 
there are places on this piece where they wave up and down. 

The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm turning 
17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture you can see about a 
half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and smooth, this is 
where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine is a very large 
(5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW 
spindle and HSK63F tooling. 

It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've 
playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it better 
or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and 0.050 can 
make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound when you get it 
right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. Also 
playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better. 

It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that much, but 
something sure seems to be vibrating. 
   
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 22:05:33 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Dust collection for us isn't an issue.  We have a very larg central
> system (100Hp fan).  It has enough suck at the machine to easily suck
> up 6" square pieces of 3/4" mdf right off the table if they aren't
> sucked down.  The machines are equipped with an air jet to assist chip
> removal.
>
That sounds much better than just the straight vacuum from the collector 
that I could see in the video.

> The vacuum hold down is drawn down to about 20inHg most of the time
> plenty of hold down.
>
> We really don't have much trouble with tool breakage most of the time.
>  Unless a collet is worn out or something stupid happens.

Good,  Then the problem is in removing the "stupid" factor when something 
goes aglay.

Forces of habit by operators are the hardest to remove, so I would sit 
back and think about seeing how the operator might be removed from the 
chain of command while the gcode is asking for the correct assistance.  
Some sort of a eula-like ok button to be pressed indicating that the 
operator has read the message.  Stealing focus would disable the machine 
controls while he/she is reading the message.  That I think could remove 
75% of the "stupid" from the equation.

This may call for a new (blk-msg,string) that instead of the right edge 
scrolling overlay, actually opens a message box with the message and an 
OK button, stealing focus until the OK its clicked on, to be invented.

I know, folks in hell are wanting ice water, but it does sound like a 
worthwhile feature from here, but with the provisio that if the error 
has not stopped the machine, stop it anyway as the msg box is opening.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Todd Zuercher]

Dust collection for us isn't an issue.  We have a very larg central system 
(100Hp fan).  It has enough suck at the machine to easily suck up 6" square 
pieces of 3/4" mdf right off the table if they aren't sucked down.  The 
machines are equipped with an air jet to assist chip removal. 

The vacuum hold down is drawn down to about 20inHg most of the time plenty of 
hold down.

We really don't have much trouble with tool breakage most of the time.  Unless 
a collet is worn out or something stupid happens.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 5:00:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 16:29:53 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Gene,
>
> I think you had a better answer then mine.  I suspected resonance but
> you found a few more sources of it.
>
> One question:  Is vacuuming really better then blowing.  My theory is
> that I can at best only get one atmosphere of pressure difference with
> a vacuum but a blower can have any amount of force, 3 or 4 atmosphere
> (ok "Bar") is easy.I think a 100 PSI jet clears the dust better.
> But I've never tried to rig any kind of tiny-size vacuum.

The air hose works well too, but blows the cuttings all over the shop, 
and had to be used about 8 squirts per loop around a .375" square 
button. As thats about 10 passes thru the loop=80 squirts, the air 
compressor was running pretty hot.  So I much prefer the spot vacuum 
that sucks it up the instant its loose, and all the mess is contained in 
the 5 gallon catch bucket my el-cheapo version of a cyclone separator 
dumps it into.  My vacuum nozzle is circa an inch in diameter, so it 
also sucked up quite a few of the ebony parts.  But the lid on the 
bucket was never snapped on, so shutting off the vac and lifting the lid 
to retrieve the teeny parts was quick and easy.  it could have been even 
smaller in diameter, but I ran out of space for down step adaptors, and 
its a 35 mile round trip to Lowes or a 50 mile trip to home depot for 
more parts.

So obviously that gets done when I need something else too. If I happen 
to remember it that is. :)

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 17:19:42 Bruce Layne wrote:

And I put back on the list;

> On 05/24/2016 05:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> Walnut is pretty, but its the single most toxic wood dust about.
>
>  I love the look and feel of walnut, but the dust is very
> aggravating.  Much more so than other North American hardwoods I've
> used.  However, the dust from some South American hardwoods can KILL
> YOU, as in DEAD!  And some Australian woods are even worse.  It seems
> that a lot of stuff in Australia can kill you.  Most wood dusts are
> irritants, some are allergens of varying degrees, some are
> carcinogenic and some are directly toxic.
>
>  http://www.tedswoodworking.com/toxic-wood.htm
>
> 
> http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity

Please turn off the html Bruce.  And I forgot the international nature of 
this list, so there may well be more toxic woods about, just not local 
to me.

One I had some reservations about was butternut, which I bought half a 
van load from Ray Henry the last time I visited his shop, several years 
ago now.  I made door and drawer face inserts out of it for all the 
original kitchen cabinets that came with the lady and house when I 
married her going on 27 years ago.  Quite a bit of sanding to thickness, 
getting rid of the bandsaw marks as I cut it out, bookmatching opposing 
doors if I could, using a vacuum on the rear of a $19 5" RO sander to 
collect most of the dust.  Kept me out of the bars for at least 2 
months, but at no time did the butternut dust bother me, and its a 1st 
cousin to walnut but only half as dense at about 22 lbs per cubic foot.  
Distinctive grain, 6 wiped on coats of Sam's Stuff and its rather 
impressive.  As its fairly soft, several coats filling the pores also 
hardens the surface against the occasional ding of a passing dish or 
pan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 16:42:26 John Kasunich wrote:

> On Tue, May 24, 2016, at 04:29 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Gene,
> >
> > I think you had a better answer then mine.  I suspected resonance
> > but you found a few more sources of it.
> >
> > One question:  Is vacuuming really better then blowing.  My theory
> > is that I can at best only get one atmosphere of pressure difference
> > with a vacuum but a blower can have any amount of force, 3 or 4
> > atmosphere (ok "Bar") is easy.I think a 100 PSI jet clears the
> > dust better. But I've never tried to rig any kind of tiny-size
> > vacuum.
>
> Blowing might be better for dislodging the dust, but most people
> don't want to blow MDF dust all over their shops.

:-) not to mention the sand like stuff from ebony, or the bigger chips 
from Mahogany, and for darn sure if its Walnut under the tool.  Walnut 
is pretty, but its the single most toxic wood dust about.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 16:29:53 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Gene,
>
> I think you had a better answer then mine.  I suspected resonance but
> you found a few more sources of it.
>
> One question:  Is vacuuming really better then blowing.  My theory is
> that I can at best only get one atmosphere of pressure difference with
> a vacuum but a blower can have any amount of force, 3 or 4 atmosphere
> (ok "Bar") is easy.I think a 100 PSI jet clears the dust better.
> But I've never tried to rig any kind of tiny-size vacuum.

The air hose works well too, but blows the cuttings all over the shop, 
and had to be used about 8 squirts per loop around a .375" square 
button. As thats about 10 passes thru the loop=80 squirts, the air 
compressor was running pretty hot.  So I much prefer the spot vacuum 
that sucks it up the instant its loose, and all the mess is contained in 
the 5 gallon catch bucket my el-cheapo version of a cyclone separator 
dumps it into.  My vacuum nozzle is circa an inch in diameter, so it 
also sucked up quite a few of the ebony parts.  But the lid on the 
bucket was never snapped on, so shutting off the vac and lifting the lid 
to retrieve the teeny parts was quick and easy.  it could have been even 
smaller in diameter, but I ran out of space for down step adaptors, and 
its a 35 mile round trip to Lowes or a 50 mile trip to home depot for 
more parts.

So obviously that gets done when I need something else too. If I happen 
to remember it that is. :)

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[John Kasunich]

On Tue, May 24, 2016, at 04:29 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Gene,
> 
> I think you had a better answer then mine.  I suspected resonance but
> you found a few more sources of it.
> 
> One question:  Is vacuuming really better then blowing.  My theory is
> that I can at best only get one atmosphere of pressure difference with
> a vacuum but a blower can have any amount of force, 3 or 4 atmosphere
> (ok "Bar") is easy.I think a 100 PSI jet clears the dust better.
> But I've never tried to rig any kind of tiny-size vacuum.
> 

Blowing might be better for dislodging the dust, but most people
don't want to blow MDF dust all over their shops.

-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,

I think you had a better answer then mine.  I suspected resonance but
you found a few more sources of it.

One question:  Is vacuuming really better then blowing.  My theory is
that I can at best only get one atmosphere of pressure difference with
a vacuum but a blower can have any amount of force, 3 or 4 atmosphere
(ok "Bar") is easy.I think a 100 PSI jet clears the dust better.
But I've never tried to rig any kind of tiny-size vacuum.



On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Tuesday 24 May 2016 10:14:17 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
>> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how
>> to prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent
>> angle, in fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and
>> down.
>>
>> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm
>> turning 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture
>> you can see about a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is
>> nice and smooth, this is where the ramp in point is (start of the
>> cut). The machine is a very large (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge
>> commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW spindle and HSK63F tooling.
>>
>> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look.
>> I've playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can
>> make it better or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and
>> error, and 0.050 can make a big difference. You can hear the
>> difference in the sound when you get it right, the cut is very quiet.
>> If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. Also playing with the RPM
>> can somtimes make it better.
>>
>> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that
>> much, but something sure seems to be vibrating.
>
> At 200 IPM, even at 17K RPM's two questions come to mind, first being
> tool breakage, related to debris removal to keep the bits cutting flutes
> clean.  That looks like the usual 3/4" MDF that we would buy here, but
> yours is likely sized metric, say 19mm thick.
>
> Is this a straight cut thru the MDF, or a one side of the tool only edge
> trim?  In either case tool breakage would be encouraged by in-sufficient
> debris vacuuming.  When I was cutting out the bits of ebony for the
> blanket chests, truly microscopic compared to this, in ebony
> nominally .275" thick, I had to rig a vacuum right beside a .03125" tool
> to keep the groove clean ahead of the tools motion, and do loops only
> about .035" of depth increment in order to stop breakage of the tool,
> which had a .250" length of cutting edge.  In other words, I had to keep
> the flutes from packing full of debris.
>
> If I saw debris buildup in the slot, the tool would break in the next
> quarter inch of travel, max.  But with the vacuum, I cut out the last
> 140 of them with the same tool.
>
> As for the pattern, vibration of the gantry crossbar, a resonance between
> the pulse of the cutting flute and the RPM's seems like a good point to
> check, you said changing the RPM's helped or changed the pattern, as
> would I'd expect changing both the number of flutes, and the spiral
> angle, somewhere it seems like there ought to be a sweet spot.  What
> does bolting another 20 lbs of something to the back face of the
> crossbar do to the pattern?  That would change the resonant frequency.
> Is that crossbar sealed?  In which case I might try filling it with play
> sand, about 4/5ths full and sealing the ends.  The theory being that the
> play sand would absorb and deaden the vibration until it was down to
> face powder from wear.  That should be several years to achieve.
>
> Endways vibration of the gantry risers might also be involved, in which
> case a box of sand, 15 lbs or so in a 20 lb box, attached to the outside
> face of the risers might dampen it.
>
> But I'd start with a good vacuuming setup to keep the trench clean, and a
> different tool bit, even a 4 flute or a 3 flute if using 2's now.
>
> Positioning a cheap webcam, separately from the machine so there is no
> chance of the camera vibrating with the machine, where it can watch
> something on top of the crossbar, might show you more precisely which
> direction it is vibrating in as the image focus would be blurred and
> elongated in the direction of the the major vibration. I would do that
> if changing the tools angles and flutes fails to reduce it sufficiently.
>
> I made a sort of a cyclone separator out of common PCV plumbing that
> caught 99% of the debris in a 5 gallon bucket sitting beside the $23
> vacuum with its costly hepa filter.  Easy enough to make and nearly as
> efficient as an Oneida Dust Deputy at nearly a hundred dollar bill.
>
> There are some pix of it on my web page below.  The end of the central
> pipe connected to the vacuum, is placed about 2" below the angled
> entrance pipe which is plumbed to the pickup point, carried by the head
> as it moves up and down.  The 

Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Chris Albertson]

Yrs, I did the math in my head.   What happens I think the the board
vibrates and the frequency of the vibrations is (no wonder) in sync
with the spindle speed.  Som times the wood hits the gap in the spirit
and other times the dod hits the cutting edge.

I think what matters is the ratio of the movement and vibration has
some kind of resonance.  This is easy to do if there are small whole
numbers involved.   But now that it appears i missed a decimal place

In any case I still think it best explained that the wood vibrates at
a frequency that is some multiple of the spindle speed so it keeps
hitting the same place on the router bit.  If your router is out of
balance it would cause this.


On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Bruce Layne
 wrote:
> I like Chris' analysis, but when I do the math, I get 85 revolutions per
> inch instead of 8.5 revolutions per inch.
>
> Also, my pi is 3.1416, so I get 1.273 revolutions per inch when rolling
> the .250" diameter cutter.  Chris got 1.33, so his pi must be 3, but I'd
> say that's within engineering tolerance.  :-)
>
>
>
> On 05/24/2016 01:10 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Lets see, 200ipm turning 17,000rpm comers to 8.5 revolutions per inch.
>>
>> Think about it this way, if you rolled the 1/4 router but over the
>> wood you would have 1.33 revolutions per inch.  it would not cut at
>> all because there is no relative motion between cutter and wood.  But
>> you are getting to close to this and the spiral pattern of the cutter
>> is showing up in the wood.  Vibrations at a frequency that is small
>> multiple of the repeats of the spiral pattern of the cutter
>>
>> Try the same cut at a MUCH slower speed.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 13:07:48 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> For those that didn't get the attachment.
> http://s33.postimg.org/8w84v716n/0524160945.jpg
> The material is MDF (I did say that in the first message) and has not
> discernible grain pattern of it's own.  Other cuts (made with other
> tools) on that same piece pictured have no pattern.

Watching that, I'd say that the vacuum dust collection isn't good enough 
to keep the bits flutes cleaned out.  It is doing an excellent job of 
keeping the workspace clean, but there isn't any great amount of air 
extraction at the bit face itself which could allow it to pack full, 
breaking the bit.  Debris the bit throws out of the cut is handled well, 
but there is little or no direct vacuum within 1/4" of the tool and cut.

> Someone asked what the machine looks like.
> http://s33.postimg.org/tgn4bg62n/0524161237.jpg
> or here is a video clip of one.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U6HtvfKUYg
> The machine weighs more than 10,000lbs.
>
> We are cutting nested parts on a flat vacuum table with a spoil board.
>  Cutting with a much larger bit would give us problems with loosing
> vacuum holding power.  For larger parts we cut them out with a 1/2"
> diameter tool, and the marks are less of a problem then.  The small
> pieces we have to cut out with the 1/4" tool to keep them on the
> table.  When milling them with the 1/4" down cut tool the tool path
> remains packed tightly with dust, and helps hold the piece on the
> table.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Marcus Bowman" <marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk>
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:31:29
> PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?
>
> On 24 May 2016, at 17:22, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:
> > I concur with Nicklaus. This looks like normal wood grain (each year
> > ring having a harder and softer section) with the exception of the
> > near center of view.  In this case it looks like the grain was
> > compressed near a branch/knot.  This is all mute it that is not a
> > piece of wood.
> >
> > On Tuesday, May 24, 2016, Nicklas Karlsson
> > <nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> I can see the figure but are nor sure I could see the tool marks.
> >> Is the wood dry? Are you feeding to fast?
> >>
> >> On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT)
> >> "Todd  Zuercher" <zuerc...@embarqmail.com
> >>
> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet
> >>> how to
> >>
> >> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent
> >> angle, in fact there are places on this piece where they wave up
> >> and down.
> >>
> >>> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm
> >>
> >> turning 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF
>
> So if it's MDF, it can't be grain patterns.
> I think its simply vibration.
> Can you use a cutter with a much greater diameter (say 1inch or more)?
> That would at least reduce the frequency of the vibrations, and the
> amplitude. Can you take cuts less deep? That would reduce the stress
> on the cutter.
>
> Marcus
>
> >> in a single pass. In the picture you can
> >> see about a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice
> >> and smooth, this is where the ramp in point is (start of the cut).
> >> The machine is a very large (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge
> >> commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW spindle and HSK63F tooling.
> >>
> >>> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain
> >>> look. I've
> >>
> >> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make
> >> it better or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and
> >> error, and 0.050 can make a big difference. You can hear the
> >> difference in the sound when you get it right, the cut is very
> >> quiet. If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. Also playing with
> >> the RPM can somtimes make it better.
> >>
> >>> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex
> >>> that
> >>
> >> much, but something sure seems to be vibrating.
> >>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> Todd Zuercher
> >>> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com <javascript:;>
> >>&g

Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[andy pugh]

I sometimes get tool chatter with my cheap chinese lathe.
I have found that wobbling the spindle speed up and down can kill the
resonance. In fact this is so effective that I have considered adding
a function generator comp to the spindle speed and a check-box that
would automatically dither the spindle speed up and down by 10%.

You could try the same thing, see if it is a resonance that you can kill.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 May 2016 10:14:17 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how
> to prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent
> angle, in fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and
> down.
>
> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm
> turning 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture
> you can see about a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is
> nice and smooth, this is where the ramp in point is (start of the
> cut). The machine is a very large (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge
> commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW spindle and HSK63F tooling.
>
> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look.
> I've playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can
> make it better or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and
> error, and 0.050 can make a big difference. You can hear the
> difference in the sound when you get it right, the cut is very quiet.
> If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. Also playing with the RPM
> can somtimes make it better.
>
> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that
> much, but something sure seems to be vibrating.

At 200 IPM, even at 17K RPM's two questions come to mind, first being 
tool breakage, related to debris removal to keep the bits cutting flutes  
clean.  That looks like the usual 3/4" MDF that we would buy here, but 
yours is likely sized metric, say 19mm thick.

Is this a straight cut thru the MDF, or a one side of the tool only edge 
trim?  In either case tool breakage would be encouraged by in-sufficient 
debris vacuuming.  When I was cutting out the bits of ebony for the 
blanket chests, truly microscopic compared to this, in ebony 
nominally .275" thick, I had to rig a vacuum right beside a .03125" tool 
to keep the groove clean ahead of the tools motion, and do loops only 
about .035" of depth increment in order to stop breakage of the tool, 
which had a .250" length of cutting edge.  In other words, I had to keep 
the flutes from packing full of debris.

If I saw debris buildup in the slot, the tool would break in the next 
quarter inch of travel, max.  But with the vacuum, I cut out the last 
140 of them with the same tool.

As for the pattern, vibration of the gantry crossbar, a resonance between 
the pulse of the cutting flute and the RPM's seems like a good point to 
check, you said changing the RPM's helped or changed the pattern, as 
would I'd expect changing both the number of flutes, and the spiral 
angle, somewhere it seems like there ought to be a sweet spot.  What 
does bolting another 20 lbs of something to the back face of the 
crossbar do to the pattern?  That would change the resonant frequency.  
Is that crossbar sealed?  In which case I might try filling it with play 
sand, about 4/5ths full and sealing the ends.  The theory being that the 
play sand would absorb and deaden the vibration until it was down to 
face powder from wear.  That should be several years to achieve.

Endways vibration of the gantry risers might also be involved, in which 
case a box of sand, 15 lbs or so in a 20 lb box, attached to the outside 
face of the risers might dampen it.

But I'd start with a good vacuuming setup to keep the trench clean, and a 
different tool bit, even a 4 flute or a 3 flute if using 2's now.

Positioning a cheap webcam, separately from the machine so there is no 
chance of the camera vibrating with the machine, where it can watch 
something on top of the crossbar, might show you more precisely which 
direction it is vibrating in as the image focus would be blurred and 
elongated in the direction of the the major vibration. I would do that 
if changing the tools angles and flutes fails to reduce it sufficiently.

I made a sort of a cyclone separator out of common PCV plumbing that 
caught 99% of the debris in a 5 gallon bucket sitting beside the $23 
vacuum with its costly hepa filter.  Easy enough to make and nearly as 
efficient as an Oneida Dust Deputy at nearly a hundred dollar bill.

There are some pix of it on my web page below.  The end of the central 
pipe connected to the vacuum, is placed about 2" below the angled 
entrance pipe which is plumbed to the pickup point, carried by the head 
as it moves up and down.  The separating swirl being generated by the 
angled entry.  And I control it with an M8(on) or M9(off) in my gcode 
scribbles.  That gates a 500 hz pulse, and a charge pump does the 
switching to drive a 10 amp relay.

I hope something here helps TomP.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who

Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Todd Zuercher]

Oops, the file that cut out that piece was an older one it was actually only 
running 120ipm at 17300rpm, (so 144 rev per inch)

- Original Message -
From: "Chris Albertson" <albertson.ch...@gmail.com>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 1:10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

Lets see, 200ipm turning 17,000rpm comers to 8.5 revolutions per inch.

Think about it this way, if you rolled the 1/4 router but over the
wood you would have 1.33 revolutions per inch.  it would not cut at
all because there is no relative motion between cutter and wood.  But
you are getting to close to this and the spiral pattern of the cutter
is showing up in the wood.  Vibrations at a frequency that is small
multiple of the repeats of the spiral pattern of the cutter

Try the same cut at a MUCH slower speed.



On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:14 AM, Todd  Zuercher
<zuerc...@embarqmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to 
> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in 
> fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and down.
>
> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm turning 
> 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture you can see about 
> a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and smooth, this is 
> where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine is a very large 
> (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW 
> spindle and HSK63F tooling.
>
> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've 
> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it better 
> or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and 0.050 can 
> make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound when you get 
> it right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. 
> Also playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better.
>
> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that much, but 
> something sure seems to be vibrating.
> --
>
> 
>
> Todd Zuercher
> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com
>
> 
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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>



-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Bruce Layne]

I like Chris' analysis, but when I do the math, I get 85 revolutions per 
inch instead of 8.5 revolutions per inch.

Also, my pi is 3.1416, so I get 1.273 revolutions per inch when rolling 
the .250" diameter cutter.  Chris got 1.33, so his pi must be 3, but I'd 
say that's within engineering tolerance.  :-)



On 05/24/2016 01:10 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Lets see, 200ipm turning 17,000rpm comers to 8.5 revolutions per inch.
>
> Think about it this way, if you rolled the 1/4 router but over the
> wood you would have 1.33 revolutions per inch.  it would not cut at
> all because there is no relative motion between cutter and wood.  But
> you are getting to close to this and the spiral pattern of the cutter
> is showing up in the wood.  Vibrations at a frequency that is small
> multiple of the repeats of the spiral pattern of the cutter
>
> Try the same cut at a MUCH slower speed.
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Chris Albertson]

Lets see, 200ipm turning 17,000rpm comers to 8.5 revolutions per inch.

Think about it this way, if you rolled the 1/4 router but over the
wood you would have 1.33 revolutions per inch.  it would not cut at
all because there is no relative motion between cutter and wood.  But
you are getting to close to this and the spiral pattern of the cutter
is showing up in the wood.  Vibrations at a frequency that is small
multiple of the repeats of the spiral pattern of the cutter

Try the same cut at a MUCH slower speed.



On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:14 AM, Todd  Zuercher
 wrote:
> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to 
> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in 
> fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and down.
>
> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm turning 
> 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture you can see about 
> a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and smooth, this is 
> where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine is a very large 
> (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW 
> spindle and HSK63F tooling.
>
> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've 
> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it better 
> or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and 0.050 can 
> make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound when you get 
> it right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. 
> Also playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better.
>
> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that much, but 
> something sure seems to be vibrating.
> --
>
> 
>
> Todd Zuercher
> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com
>
> 
>
> --
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> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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>



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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Todd Zuercher]

For those that didn't get the attachment.
http://s33.postimg.org/8w84v716n/0524160945.jpg
The material is MDF (I did say that in the first message) and has not 
discernible grain pattern of it's own.  Other cuts (made with other tools) on 
that same piece pictured have no pattern.

Someone asked what the machine looks like.
http://s33.postimg.org/tgn4bg62n/0524161237.jpg
or here is a video clip of one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U6HtvfKUYg
The machine weighs more than 10,000lbs.

We are cutting nested parts on a flat vacuum table with a spoil board.  Cutting 
with a much larger bit would give us problems with loosing vacuum holding 
power.  For larger parts we cut them out with a 1/2" diameter tool, and the 
marks are less of a problem then.  The small pieces we have to cut out with the 
1/4" tool to keep them on the table.  When milling them with the 1/4" down cut 
tool the tool path remains packed tightly with dust, and helps hold the piece 
on the table.

- Original Message -
From: "Marcus Bowman" <marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:31:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?


On 24 May 2016, at 17:22, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:

> I concur with Nicklaus. This looks like normal wood grain (each year ring
> having a harder and softer section) with the exception of the near center
> of view.  In this case it looks like the grain was compressed near a
> branch/knot.  This is all mute it that is not a piece of wood.
> 
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016, Nicklas Karlsson <nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I can see the figure but are nor sure I could see the tool marks. Is the
>> wood dry? Are you feeding to fast?
>> 
>> On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT)
>> "Todd  Zuercher" <zuerc...@embarqmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to
>> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in
>> fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and down.
>>> 
>>> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm
>> turning 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF

So if it's MDF, it can't be grain patterns.
I think its simply vibration.
Can you use a cutter with a much greater diameter (say 1inch or more)?
That would at least reduce the frequency of the vibrations, and the amplitude.
Can you take cuts less deep? That would reduce the stress on the cutter.

Marcus


>> in a single pass. In the picture you can
>> see about a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and
>> smooth, this is where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine
>> is a very large (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router
>> (Komo) with a 14KW spindle and HSK63F tooling.
>>> 
>>> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've
>> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it
>> better or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and
>> 0.050 can make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound
>> when you get it right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the
>> tool will snap. Also playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better.
>>> 
>>> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that
>> much, but something sure seems to be vibrating.
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Todd Zuercher
>>> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com <javascript:;>
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
>> untouched!
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>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net <javascript:;>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> res

Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 May 2016, at 17:22, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:

> I concur with Nicklaus. This looks like normal wood grain (each year ring
> having a harder and softer section) with the exception of the near center
> of view.  In this case it looks like the grain was compressed near a
> branch/knot.  This is all mute it that is not a piece of wood.
> 
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016, Nicklas Karlsson 
> wrote:
> 
>> I can see the figure but are nor sure I could see the tool marks. Is the
>> wood dry? Are you feeding to fast?
>> 
>> On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT)
>> "Todd  Zuercher" > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to
>> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in
>> fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and down.
>>> 
>>> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm
>> turning 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF

So if it's MDF, it can't be grain patterns.
I think its simply vibration.
Can you use a cutter with a much greater diameter (say 1inch or more)?
That would at least reduce the frequency of the vibrations, and the amplitude.
Can you take cuts less deep? That would reduce the stress on the cutter.

Marcus


>> in a single pass. In the picture you can
>> see about a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and
>> smooth, this is where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine
>> is a very large (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router
>> (Komo) with a 14KW spindle and HSK63F tooling.
>>> 
>>> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've
>> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it
>> better or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and
>> 0.050 can make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound
>> when you get it right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the
>> tool will snap. Also playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better.
>>> 
>>> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that
>> much, but something sure seems to be vibrating.
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Todd Zuercher
>>> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
>> untouched!
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>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

I concur with Nicklaus. This looks like normal wood grain (each year ring
having a harder and softer section) with the exception of the near center
of view.  In this case it looks like the grain was compressed near a
branch/knot.  This is all mute it that is not a piece of wood.

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016, Nicklas Karlsson 
wrote:

> I can see the figure but are nor sure I could see the tool marks. Is the
> wood dry? Are you feeding to fast?
>
> On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT)
> "Todd  Zuercher"  > wrote:
>
> > Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to
> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in
> fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and down.
> >
> > The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm
> turning 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture you can
> see about a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and
> smooth, this is where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine
> is a very large (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router
> (Komo) with a 14KW spindle and HSK63F tooling.
> >
> > It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've
> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it
> better or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and
> 0.050 can make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound
> when you get it right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the
> tool will snap. Also playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better.
> >
> > It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that
> much, but something sure seems to be vibrating.
> > --
> >
> > 
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 
> >
> > 
>
>
> --
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> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
> untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I can see the figure but are nor sure I could see the tool marks. Is the wood 
dry? Are you feeding to fast?

On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT)
"Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:

> Anyone know the root cause of tool marks like this? Or better yet how to 
> prevent them? The lines are not in a straight line or consistent angle, in 
> fact there are places on this piece where they wave up and down. 
> 
> The tool is a 1/4inch solid carbide down spiral, cutting at 200ipm turning 
> 17,000rpm cutting 1/2" MDF in a single pass. In the picture you can see about 
> a half inch long section of the cut where the cut is nice and smooth, this is 
> where the ramp in point is (start of the cut). The machine is a very large 
> (5ftx10ft) moving table fixed bridge commercial router (Komo) with a 14KW 
> spindle and HSK63F tooling. 
> 
> It does kind of give the piece a sort of simulated wood grain look. I've 
> playing with the amount of tool sticking out of the collet can make it better 
> or worse, finding the sweet spot is a bit of trial and error, and 0.050 can 
> make a big difference. You can hear the difference in the sound when you get 
> it right, the cut is very quiet. If it gets bad enough the tool will snap. 
> Also playing with the RPM can somtimes make it better. 
> 
> It is hard to believe that a carbide tool or collet could flex that much, but 
> something sure seems to be vibrating. 
> -- 
> 
>  
> 
> Todd Zuercher 
> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 
> 
>  

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Marks?

[Dave Caroline]

I a picture of the machine and setup could have helped, it could be
vibration of tool, machine or work.
You also did not mention the material, Some materials have grain due
to how they are made.

Dave Caroline

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