Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
Thanks Dave. The acceleration isn’t all that high at the moment but I’ll play with that if all else fails. The Vexta drives I am using are powered by 110VAC. -Tom On May 5, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com wrote: While mentioning the top speed no one is mentioning the acceleration rate, try slowing that down. Also increase supply voltage to the motor/drive as this also gives a faster more powerful response from the motor drive combination. Dave Caroline On 05/05/2015, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote: Thanks, I'll give it a try tomorrow. I did see in the Vexta manual that it be connected as you suggest so I am hoping this is my problem and not a bad motor or drive as Jon alluded to (Thanks as well, Jon). -Tom On May 4, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Just to make sure its not a current drive issue, can you try connecting the step and dir signals to the 7I85S such that the 7I85S sinks current to drive the OPTO? The current batch of 7I85S's sink current better than source so you would connect the OPTO + to 5V and OPTO- to 7I85S output to get maximum drive -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
On 5 May 2015 at 00:45, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote: This is a Berger Lahr 596 5-phase stepper motor on the Z-axis of an EMCO 120P lathe Is it the same motor as this one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EMCO-COMPACT-5-CNC-LATHE-STEP-MOTOR-/271854301426?_trksid=p2056016.l4276 -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
Not even close. That motor is from a Compact 5 which is a table top lathe. It is a weird 48 step per revolution 2 phase motor. Wimpy and crude. The model 120 is about 8X the mass and uses 5 phase motors that are far smoother and significantly more powerful. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 8:39 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall On 5 May 2015 at 00:45, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote: This is a Berger Lahr 596 5-phase stepper motor on the Z-axis of an EMCO 120P lathe Is it the same motor as this one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EMCO-COMPACT-5-CNC-LATHE-STEP-MOTOR- /271854301426?_trksid=p2056016.l4276 -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
After your suggestion didn’t fix the problem and much debugging it turns out that my problem was motor to driver wiring. The Berger Lahr steppers have terminals in a semi-circle labeled 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0. Why would one assume that that 0 is 10? Never assume…as that saying goes :-) -Tom On May 4, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Just to make sure its not a current drive issue, can you try connecting the step and dir signals to the 7I85S such that the 7I85S sinks current to drive the OPTO? The current batch of 7I85S's sink current better than source so you would connect the OPTO + to 5V and OPTO- to 7I85S output to get maximum drive -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
Steve is correct. If you are interested here is the info I have on the motors: http://berger-positec.at/files/5_mot-rdm_d-ds350d.pdf It is in german but the diagrams on page 7 and 28 are self explanatory, graphs related to RDM-596 50 are grok-able and there is always google translate which works a treat generally. Or here is one on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Berger-Lahr-Schrittmotor-RDM-596-50-/251401262162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77hash=item3a88aed452 -Tom On May 5, 2015, at 11:12 AM, Steve Stallings steve...@newsguy.com wrote: Not even close. That motor is from a Compact 5 which is a table top lathe. It is a weird 48 step per revolution 2 phase motor. Wimpy and crude. The model 120 is about 8X the mass and uses 5 phase motors that are far smoother and significantly more powerful. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 8:39 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall On 5 May 2015 at 00:45, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote: This is a Berger Lahr 596 5-phase stepper motor on the Z-axis of an EMCO 120P lathe Is it the same motor as this one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EMCO-COMPACT-5-CNC-LATHE-STEP-MOTOR- /271854301426?_trksid=p2056016.l4276 -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
On Mon, 4 May 2015, Tom Easterday wrote: Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 20:07:47 -0400 From: Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall The manual for the UDX5128NA step parameter is shown below (inline jpeg). That doesn??t work does it? :-) The UDX5128NA manual is here: http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/UDX5128NA-UM.pdf http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/UDX5128NA-UM.pdf -Tom Just to make sure its not a current drive issue, can you try connecting the step and dir signals to the 7I85S such that the 7I85S sinks current to drive the OPTO? The current batch of 7I85S's sink current better than source so you would connect the OPTO + to 5V and OPTO- to 7I85S output to get maximum drive -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
Thanks, I'll give it a try tomorrow. I did see in the Vexta manual that it be connected as you suggest so I am hoping this is my problem and not a bad motor or drive as Jon alluded to (Thanks as well, Jon). -Tom On May 4, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Just to make sure its not a current drive issue, can you try connecting the step and dir signals to the 7I85S such that the 7I85S sinks current to drive the OPTO? The current batch of 7I85S's sink current better than source so you would connect the OPTO + to 5V and OPTO- to 7I85S output to get maximum drive -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
While mentioning the top speed no one is mentioning the acceleration rate, try slowing that down. Also increase supply voltage to the motor/drive as this also gives a faster more powerful response from the motor drive combination. Dave Caroline On 05/05/2015, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote: Thanks, I'll give it a try tomorrow. I did see in the Vexta manual that it be connected as you suggest so I am hoping this is my problem and not a bad motor or drive as Jon alluded to (Thanks as well, Jon). -Tom On May 4, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Just to make sure its not a current drive issue, can you try connecting the step and dir signals to the 7I85S such that the 7I85S sinks current to drive the OPTO? The current batch of 7I85S's sink current better than source so you would connect the OPTO + to 5V and OPTO- to 7I85S output to get maximum drive -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
The manual for the UDX5128NA step parameter is shown below (inline jpeg). That doesn’t work does it? :-) The UDX5128NA manual is here: http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/UDX5128NA-UM.pdf http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/UDX5128NA-UM.pdf -Tom -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
What could cause this behavior? https://youtu.be/GWV9Px6lITM https://youtu.be/GWV9Px6lITM (or https://youtu.be/dXcmpG2MLkk https://youtu.be/dXcmpG2MLkk) Some background: This is a Berger Lahr 596 5-phase stepper motor on the Z-axis of an EMCO 120P lathe. It, and it’s X-axis identical mate, are driven by a pair of identically configured Vexta UDX5128NA stepper drivers. Mesa 5i25/7i85s is supplying step/direction, set to step_type=0 and control-type=1. The machine (with these original motors) is spec’d at ~80 in/min rapids (different controls obviously). I am attempting just 60 in/min. I can run the X-axis (up and down) at 60 in/min with no problem. I cannot run the Z-axis motor more than about 39 in/min or it will stall as in the video. I can run it in very short bursts above 39 in/min but only 2-3 seconds before it will stall. At 39 in/min and below it runs beautifully and it seems to have fine holding torque (can’t turn it with my hands anyway). I believe I have Linuxcnc set up correctly, the motor moves the distance that it should so scaling is right, and I have played with the step space/length parameters thinking that maybe I had them set too high to no avail. I have step space and step length set to 5000 each but I have tried 4000 and 6000, neither of which made any difference to either axis. I have setup and hold set to 5000 each (and have tried as high as 1). The manual for the UDX5128NA step parameter is shown below (inline jpeg). The UDX5128NA can supply 2.8A max (motor max is 2.7A) and I have both drives configured for max current output. I am at a loss as to what might be causing this since I have everything set identically on the two axes, x works great, z works great only below 39 in/min. -Tom -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] what causes stepper motor stall
On 05/04/2015 06:45 PM, Tom Easterday wrote: What could cause this behavior? https://youtu.be/GWV9Px6lITM https://youtu.be/GWV9Px6lITM (or https://youtu.be/dXcmpG2MLkk https://youtu.be/dXcmpG2MLkk) Some background: This is a Berger Lahr 596 5-phase stepper motor on the Z-axis of an EMCO 120P lathe. It, and it’s X-axis identical mate, are driven by a pair of identically configured Vexta UDX5128NA stepper drivers. Mesa 5i25/7i85s is supplying step/direction, set to step_type=0 and control-type=1. The machine (with these original motors) is spec’d at ~80 in/min rapids (different controls obviously). I am attempting just 60 in/min. Well, the audio sounds like a classic stepper stall. Have you tried swapping the drives? The fact that it ONLY stalls after several seconds of running is rather suspicious. I would think it would be most likely to stall just as it reaches the commanded speed, where the combination of acceleration and speed would put the worst load on the motor. First, take the belt off and see if there is any friction or tight spots in the travel. If nothing is found by swapping drivers and there is no unusual friction, then I'd recommend swapping the motor. Since this system is not working up to the rated performance, SOMETHING must have gone bad. The Mesa controller should be providing smooth trains of step pulses, so the ragged step timing sometimes seen with software stepping is not the cause. Jon -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
